I agree with this, and will trim my blogroll of those who refuse to sign.
Reader Interactions
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.
So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.
The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.
This is dead girl, live boy, a goat, two wetsuits and a dildo territory. oh, and pink furry handcuffs.
Disappointing to see gov. newsom with his finger to the wind.
A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.
They punch you in the face and then start crying because their fist hurts.
Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.
A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.
It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.
If you’re gonna whine, it’s time to resign!
I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.
When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.
They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.
Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.
Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.
“A king is only a king if we bow down.” – Rev. William Barber
Come on, man.
The real work of an opposition party is to oppose.
You are either for trump or for democracy. Pick one.
Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard
Every decision we make has lots of baggage with it, known or unknown.
If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.
The desire to stay informed is directly at odds with the need to not be constantly enraged.
The Other Steve
It’s rather gutless, is it not?
So that means if they make their phone number public, like say it’s part of the registration of their domain, that it’s ok to contact them and threaten their families?
Again, non-public nature? So that means if they are in the phone book, it’s ok to contact them and threaten their families?
Well that’s a rather large hole in the barn.
Go ahead and sign it. It’s meaningless anyhow.
The Other Steve
And make no mistake about it, I find this troubling…
TalkingPointsmemo
But that pledge is gutless. It totally looks the other way at the bullshit people like Michelle Malkin perform when they post contact info for people.
James Joyner
TOS: The statement isn’t intended to be a universal one against all malfeasance. It’s about conduct online.
Marcus Wellby
Huh? OK, I get the criminal part — but 90% of the blog world is made up of “misleading, or intentionally disruptive behavior”.
Case in point, John’s “misleading” reviews of Serenity, falsely claming it was a good show.
Al Maviva
I note that it says
I notice John Aravosis is one of the first signatories.
I’m without comment, except to say “cognitive dissonance.”
Tim F.
I understand that by misleading they mean dishonest sock puppets like John Lott/Mary Rosh, but given the general give-and-take of online discourse it amounts to a loophole that you could drive a truck through.
ppGaz
LOL.
The Other Steve
I do think it’s interesting that the this came out right after the Malkin falafel.
Jim Allen
Too bad you didn’t show this kind of “integrity” earlier, John. It might have meant more if you stood up against Malkin’s bullshit, as Don Surber did, rather than endorsing a lame statement that makes you feel good about yourself without actually taking a stand.
The Other Steve
I understand that, but the exceptions are big enough for a Mac Truck.
Why post any private contact info? Why do you need to?
Cyrus
I agree that it’s way too vague, but I think it’s better than nothing. And it doesn’t specifically call Malkin out, but would cover what she did.
No expert I, but there are ways to avoid doing that. I have a small personal blog on blogspot, and I’m sure I never had to give them my phone number. That doesn’t help anyone who has an established Web site or blog that they did have to give out their phone number to get, of course, but it’s not the case that everyone with a blog has their phone number on the record somewhere.
The word “public” is ambiguous. When applied to information, it usually means everything that’s not classified, proprietary or personal. (“Personal” meaning family matters, embarrassing-but-harmless facts about yourself, stuff like that.) But when applied to people, in my experience at least, I think it’s only applied to celebrities, elected officials and the rich and powerful. I am not a public person because some information about me is public. I think that’s the most common way to use it about people and I think it’s how they’re using it, and if I’m right it definitely would apply to Malkin’s outrage of the week a little while ago.
Whoever wrote this should have worded it more specifically and carefully, but it’s better than nothing and a start in the right direction.
John Cole
The goal is to hold those who sign it to the pledge, so I disagree that it is vague.
Personally, I will delink those who refuse to sign it.
And it is better than nothing.
Brian
On today’s episode of “ppGaz….International Man of Integrity”
Now, a scene from next week’s “ppGaz…International Man of Integrity”
Mr Furious
I signed on, but more for the exposure/additional link. Those are principles I’ve long held and stuck to.
That “contract” has too much wiggle room, in my opinion. You have integrity or you don’t—and that’s all the time, not just when it’s “reasonable.”
I will say, however, your insistence that people in your blogroll sign or face trimming is fairly disappointing, John. If I “refuse to sign” it in no way means I don’t live up to those ideals. And if I do sign, it’s no guarantee that I do.
I do applaud the effort to set some standards though…makes sense to try something…
Pb
I’m with ppGaz — fuck off, Brian, and thanks for queering the thread, asshole. Note that we don’t dredge up and repost all the worthless shit you spew on a daily basis–and really we don’t have to, because you never stop doing it. Now consider your dumb ass ignored until you say something remotely worthwhile. That is to say, ignored forever, most likely.
Punchy
“Blogroll”…sounds like the noise one makes when one is undergoing involuntary emesis…
By the way, what exactly is “Pajamas Media”? Is that like CNN, only for those too lazy to get out of bed?
Mr Furious
I suppose I just resist being told I have to do something (sign up)…especially when it is to pledge never to engage in behavior I would ever do.
Next up? Sign the “I’ll Never Molest a Child or Beat a Baby Seal” pledge.
chopper
c’mon, brian.
“Now, it’s vomit with poo.”
that’s comedic gold.
Mr Furious
Brian, that’s a dick move to throw that in here. John, you should yank it.
Yeah, chilling effects and censorship, I guess, but that is an example of bad judgement by Brian, and hopefully ppGaz doesn’t take the bait.
THAT is “intentionally disruptive behavior” in my book, should I now release Brian’s address and his daughter’s school? Of course not. That’s Exhibit A why that pledge is as worthless as the pixels it’s written in..
Mr Furious
Wait, I forgot, Brian is the only serious commenter here. Ever. My bad.
Krista
Just out of sheer curiousity, what happens to those who sign the pledge and then break it? Are they sent to an internment camp (i.e. Michelle Malkin’s basement)? Or are they tortured by having to listen incessantly to Mike Judge as Beavis and Butthead doing an audio transcript of Protein Wisdom’s comments sections?
The mind boggles…
Brian
Yeah, pull it John. It would be interesting to see what passes for judgment on commenters here. I found your post to be a decent place to post the comments of a person who hurls insults, slurs, and epithets freely and without even so much as a slap on the wrist from his fellow commenters or the proprietors of this blog. What did I do? I re-posted merely a sampling of his comments, and I get more of the same in response. What kind of community do you want here? Should this pledge be a means to also control to commentary the same way Red State or Kos? Just a thought.
Perry Como
:splorf:
You owe me a new keyboard!
re: Brian’s verbal diarrhea, I can repost the anti-troll greasemonkey script if any Firefox users want it.
The Other Steve
Would what Michelle Malkin did be against this pledge?
Would what Jeff Goldstein did in the Tawanda Affair be against this pledge? i.e. linking to the personal information of Prof Hettle?
It’s not clear to me that this pledge doesn’t give them loopholes.
As well as the Jane Black’s of the Left who post instant messenger addresses, email addresses, etc.
Krista
Now, Furious. Be nice. Brian is only trying to help us. He IS the only serious commenter on this blog, not to mention the only one with any morals. When he provokes ppGaz, or asks Tim how Armando’s butt smells, or tells us all about how his wife submits to him even when she’s not in the mood — it’s all a test, don’t you see? He is just trying to inspire us to rise above this false provocation, and to aspire towards a higher level of discourse. I think it makes perfect sense, really. It’s just like teaching a child to not be violent, by swatting him around a few times until he learns to turn the other cheek. We should be thanking Brian for these valuable lessons, not insulting him.
Brian
I just posted a thought. If you can absorb it, feel free to respond. Or, you can step into my presence so I can drop-kick you onto the nearset freeway.
Brian
And Krista’s post passes for “thought”?
Krista, my wife will be interested to know that she “submits” to me. Sounds kinky. Heh.
Brian
It is not mine, it belongs to one “ppGaz”.
SeesThroughIt
Well hold on a second here…at what age does a seal cease to be a baby?
ROFLcopter!
LOLls Royce!
John Cole
Jim Allen- Just go fuck yourself. All you ever do is come in here and shit all over me.
I am not quite sure what you think I said about the Malkin affair, but this is the extent of my commentary on the issue that seems to have you all hot and bothered:
Clearly I was rushing to the aid of Michelle Malkin.
FWIW- total assholes like you were probably the ones gleefully savaging Ben Domenech and calling Erik Erickson’s wife a couple months back.
I am sorry the rest of you had to see me explode, but I am sick to death of coming on my own website and seeing dickheads like Jim Allen attack me, when I do nothing but give you guys a forum.
Again, go fuck yourself, Jim. And BTW, since you seem to adore Don, go waste his bandwidth.
The Other Steve
I don’t know if you’ve noticed this John. But you never really condemned Malkin. You can claim you didn’t rush to her defense, but you did by trying to lay the blame on “them” rather than “her”. But yet you go on and on about Domenech and Erickson. Yet nothing anybody did regarding those two is any different than what Malkin did.
That’s why I question this pledge. It seems like so much bullshit, like an excuse for you to feel better about yelling at Jane Hamsher, but it has so many big fricking exceptions that you can claim that Malkin really isn’t in the wrong, technically.
It seems like you want to have it both ways.
And that’s exactly what this pledge allows, which is what makes it less than a good thing, rather than a start. Because it’s symbolic and just serves to add further fire to partisan whining.
And yes, I know that my complaints can point right back the other direction. That’s my fucking point.
John Cole
TOS-
When you realize Jane Hamsher and Michelle Malkin are the same beast on different sides of the political spectrum, we can sit down and talk.
John Cole
BTW- you see a link to Malkin on this site? Have you paid any attention to my opinions about Malkin’s politics and tactics?
Pb
I can see why Jim Allen might have been annoyed, seeing as how John Cole’s account of what happened is woefully inaccurate–the truth is, indeed, not so kind to Malkin.
The Other Steve
It doesn’t seem like you understand that, and you’re using this as a tactic to avoid discussion.
Let’s step back again. Is what Malkin did wrong according to this pledge? Is what Jeff Goldstein did wrong?
From what I see, this whole thing is symbolic at best, because of the exceptions.
Little Green footballs and Michelle Malkin can post private information about lefties, and nobody on the right will do anything about it because it’s ok… there’s an exception for disruptive behavior.
And Jane Hamsher and Duncan Black can post private information about righties, and nobody on the left will do anything about it because it’s ok… there’s an exception for misleading behavior.
Meanwhile Jane Hamsher can yell about Michelle Malkin, and Little Green Footballs can yell at Duncan Black.
And we’re right where we’ve always been. Because Malkin isn’t promoting Black and Hamsher isn’t blogrolling LGF anyway.
Status Quo, nothing changes.
Sure, I’ll sign it. So should everybody else, including even Drudge Report and Raw Story.
Punchy
You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. I really hope you’re saying this in jest, because this is the most inane and disingenuous comparison I’ve seen in awhile. Malkin is a monster, spewing lies, hate, more hate, and gleefully tormenting some college students not once, but twice. While you make not like The Hamster, she is genuine, well-respected, and reasonable. I am both dumbstruck and furious that you’d even attempt this comparison.
Pooh
I’m a little depressed that a post about online integrity went into the gutter faster than Krista’s imagination (let me save you the trouble, hon: Poop)
Surprised? No. A little depressed, you betcha.
Faux News
This from a BJ Troll who tells the Libs here to “Go suck on a donkey’s dick”.
Yeah Troll, you REALLY have the high road when it comes to integrity…
:hits snooze button:
Brian
Faux News,
My comments are much more artfully worded than the other’s. Even so, there’s a sliding scale on crude language. There’s the occasional, and there’s the gratuitous. The commenter I’m taking to task (along with his fellow travelers) falls into the latter category, like some crazy uncle with Tourette’s Syndrome.
My comment at 11:13am still stands. Thanks for contributing.
jg
The blogoshere is becoming so political its even starting to pass toothless legislation to ‘handle’ a hot issue.
John Cole
Jane has built her website slinging the same kind of venom that Michelle slings on hers. You want me to quote her?
Jane’s entire Schtick is that she is a ‘fighting lib’- one of a cadre of lefties who are mad as hell and ain’t going to take it anymore. She is constantly savaging people viciously- the difference between her and Malkin is that you probably agree with Jane most of the time, I agree with Jane some of the time. Both of us probably disagree with Michelle the vast majority of the time.
Regardless, I stayed out of the initial Malkin/protestors controversy, for the most part, instead making fun of the whole race to achieve victim status. Why? Because I hate pile-ons, period, and because I am really sick of the blogosphere. And I mean really sick of it.
Nothing gets solved here, nothing gets debated here- it is just idiots with an agenda contorting whatever they can find to ‘win’ their argument. No one attempts to persuade anyone, no one tries to win anyone over. It is just insult, 24/7.
I am swamped this semester, so posting is a pain in the ass, but I try to. I post something about a voluntary pact for people to act decently to others online and I am:
a.) attacked for not being as ‘honest’ as Don Surber
b.) attacked for not issuing an itemized condemnation of everything Michelle Malkin has ever done.
c.) attacked for not agreeing with the general commenter consensus that the right wing is wrong about everything while the left wing smells of roses.
Meanwhile, Punchy now has his knickers in a twist because Jane is ‘genuine’ while being vicious, whereas because he hates Malkin, she is not ‘genuine.’ Michelle is a ‘monster,’ while people who orchestrate campaigns to label people as racist are ‘reasonable.’
Fuck this website. I would rather shower in prison than waste my time on it anymore.
Pooh
Is there a secret code? Ah, that explains it, your comments are the Hypnerotomachia. Well played!
Nikki
Does this mean Balloon Juice is gonna close? I would so hate that. These comments are the only ones I read regularly!
Brian
That is likely to be the best general description of the blogosphere I have ever read.
Punchy
Actually, you’re quite wrong. Your site is one of the very few where both sides speak up. You’d never see “Brian” in Kos, and you surely never see most of the others on “redstate”. You should relish this fact; and realize that some of us are here just for the comedy.
I agree that both Hamsher and Malkin are vitriolic. They are both arrogant. But Malkin peddles the GOP lies (and come ON! Admit that they’ve been lying for years about myriad of events) and I believe she does so KNOWINGLY. This is what makes her a special evil–she is intentionally decietful and outrageously vindictive. I just don’t see Hamsher in this light.
See Dr. Cole–you CAN have a discussion on this site!
John Cole
Malkin believes what she writes. I personally find that scarier, you may not.
I am not closing down this website. I am done posting until all my grades are done and I cool down. I have a thousand things going on, have a short temper, and don’t have the energy to put up with all this nor make posts worthy of reading.
I do think the blogosphere is rapidly becoming about as useful as nipples on men, though.
jg
why is it soooo hard to believe that there are still racists in this country? Racism has been a fact of life since man first realized not everyone is the same color as everyone else. Just because we had civil rights legislation and people don’t say nigger as often as they used to you think the majority of white people suddenly like black people? Or the reverse? Racism is not dead and never will be. And politicians still use it for political gain. Black politicians will use it to get the black vote, latin cadidates will use it for the latin vote. And white politicians will use it to get the votes of people who feel we are losing this country to a foreign element. I’m amazed that people act like racism is dead and doesn’t effect political action.
jg
I’m surprised it took this long. You’ve been at this for years, a break isn’t unexpected. Maybe you need to start pounding that wine again. You were happy then.
Pb
Let’s settle this, then.
Jane Hamsher:
Michelle Malkin:
The same beast?
Pb
And cat pictures, don’t forget those.
Mr Furious
Malkin=Hamsher.
Get back to me when Jane Hamsher is a regular guest on television and has regularly published syndicated columns.
John Cole
The de facto existence of racism is not being debated. Racism exists.
But simply because we agree racism exists no more proves that Ben Domenech is a racist and deserves to be the target of a mean-spirited and orchestrated campaign to publicly label him as a racist anymore than it proves that you have four legs and a flipper. And if you want to look for ground zero of that campaign to defame Ben, it starts with the ‘reasonable’ and ‘genuine’ Jane Hamsher.
Brian
And that’s to the detriment of Kos. Pity.
Pooh
Or for fuck’s sake kids, John has made his point clearly, and y’all still are piling on. This is his space, we may not have to respect each other, but we should at least show a modicum of courtesy to our host.
Perry Como
That’s a shame. You should stick around until the Democrats gain power again. Then we can mercilessly mock them together. Of course, 2016 is a long way away…
Brian
You deserve a gift for that comment. Hookers? Beer? Hookers and beer?
John Cole
So it is only when one has a syndicated column and is a tv guest that their tactics become unacceptable…
Mr Furious
John,
Ignore Jim Allen, he’s just fulfilling his obligations as President of the Don Surber Fan Club.
An occupational hazard for bloggers is that faiilure to post on something means that you don’t have an opinion, or you implicitly support something for failure to criticize it. Bullshit. There are many weeks when I don’t post on my blog (this is one) because I have too much shit going on. I’ve decided to spend much of my online time here. Frankly its easier to come by and throw some comments in a thread than to compose a post at my place. For me, thankfully (or depressingly), nobody misses me at my place.
The expectations are raised when you reach a certain level—as you have. At no point in the last few weeks have I ever thought anything other than, “it sucks that all this stuff is going down when Cole is wrapping up the semester—I’m sure he’s got a ton of shit going on…” I find it mighty rich for a buch of jackasses without their own blogs to be lecturing you on how much time and effort you devote to what is basically a hobby you do in your spare time.
I suppose the fact that you have a bunch of people hanging around waiting to hear what you have to say about things could be taken as a compliment, but I can sure see how it’s also a major pain in the ass.
I think the site has suffered without you recently, and hope you come back refreshed and ready to rock. It should be a good summer…
Pb
John Cole,
Well, no, that would be silly–if we wanted to do that, then we could instead look at what he posts online, perhaps at places like redstate.[com]. Then again, there’s always the possibility that he’s an ignorant idiot and a fan of Richard John Neuhaus–but I repeat myself. :)
Andrei
You must have missed the FidoNet days in the 80s, then the Usenet debacle in the 90s.
Nothing’s changed. It’s always been this vitriolic and angry. (The blogosphere just added a high-tech amplifier to behavior that was once reserved for a bunch of geeky nerds like me who knew how to use a newsreader from a command line before.)
But I gaurantee you that you have had your part in making the current situation so.
Case in point. The circle of internet life continues.
Pooh
What he said. Hell, I’d probably cut out the “without their own blogs”.
(And yes, Brian, you do count as one of the jackasses. Sorry, guilt by association. But we have hookers and beers apparently, so good times…)
Mr Furious
No. And you know that. But it is disengenuous to pretend they are flip sides of the same coin. Getting a forum to express your (more) outrageous statement on national television renders Hamsher a street corner barker by comparison.
That’s all I’m saying.
I actually don’t enjoy Hamsher’s style much of the time (though I like Redd Hedd) so I don’t spend much time at firedoglake. If she pulled the same shit as Malkin, I would hold her in the same contempt.
jg
The existence of racism doesn’t mean he’s a racist of course. Its what he says and writes that makes him a racist. My point is people think a racist isn’t really a racist if he makes ‘dual use’ statements. He’s only a racist if he attends klan rallies. Its absurd.
Mr Furious
Gee, and Jim Allen’s name doesn’t have a hotlink either, so he can feel free to shut the fuck up as well.
And yes, Brian, you without your own blog or email or identity, you should tone down the commentary on pseudonymity/anonymity and matters therein.
Darrell
What “shit” are you referring too? That Malkin saved a copy of the “Fuck the Military” protesters’ on-line PR sheet that they had posted before blocking military recruiters from talking with students?
Is that the ‘horrific’example which proves Michelle is a “monster” as has been stated on this thread?
John Cole
Jane’s legal analysis is always interesting and compelling, which is why I read her almost every day, just like I read Jeralynn. It is when she switches to Malkin mode that my eyes glaze over (or my temper flares).
Brian
Furious, I maintain my comment on pseudonyms. I think someone who uses their real name, even if only a first name, is more likely to speak more closely in a manner that they would use if addressing the other in person. I think that a pseudonym is like someone wearing a beard — they’re hiding something. Maybe unconsciously, but they’re hiding something.
Why are you so Furious, Mister?
Darrell
What did he say and write which “made” him a racist?
Pb
Ok, another comparison.
Jane Hamsher wrote a book called Killer Instinct:
Michelle Malkin, on the other hand, has written several books: Invasion: How America Still Welcomes Terrorists Criminals & Other Foreign Menaces to Our Shores, In Defense of Internment: The Case for ‘Racial Profiling’ in World War II and the War on Terror, Unhinged: Exposing Liberals Gone Wild…
The same beast?
John Cole
First, I am willing to bet there are a number of people Ben’s age who repeat the communist charge without knowing the background. I, for one, was unaware of the connection, but it was never an issue for me, as I never called Coretta Scott King a communist.
Second, Ben posted the Neuhas bit without comment. I have no idea why, but I am willing to bet, knowing Ben, that the prime motivator for his linking that was because of his absolutist stance on abortion, period. Even if the Neuhas argument made sense (it does not), I am willing to bet that Ben Domenech would choose to deal with the problems of a higher crime rate than live with anyone being aborted.
Again, I have seen no evidence that Ben is racist, and those who chose to label him as a racist did so for one reason and one reason only- political expediency. It pissed them off that a Republican political operative was on the pages of the WaPo, and he had to be destroyed ar all cost. Some might say that is Malkinesque.
Ancient Purple
Oh, give me a break. You are not a noble hero or avenger because you use a first name. “Brian.” Wow! I know your first name must really be Brian because you say so, and if you say so on the Internets, then it must be true.
You could call yourself “Klopnerts” for all anyone cares. If your points are good, they will speak for themselves. Adding “Brian” to them does nothing one way or the other, except, of course, attach your previous comments to them.
ppGaz
Brian is a spoof. Yesterday his schitck was that I used a pseudonym.
Until I pointed out that John Cole and at least a dozen posters here have my email address and real name …. which ended Brian’s posting activity for yesterday.
Brian seems to think that my colorful language is a knock against me. Alas, I see it as my proudest accomplishment, blasting through the mealy-mouthed weasel talk of the righty bushmonkeys and calling spades, spades.
Last but not least, I am appointing Brian my official archivist as of today, so if anyone has any questions about anything I ever posted, please contact him directly.
I would say, contact him directly by email … but does anyone have his email address?
Mr Furious
Brian, that’s ri-fucking-diculous. We don’t even know “Brian” is your real first name. And you don’t know “Mr Furious” isn’t mine.
At least I have a readily accessible blog, and email address, and a basic profile on my blog and at Kos…
You know where I stand and I have a track record for all to see. Yeah, opening myself up for a bunch of hate mail and crank calls as a result of something I write on my blog is not something I relish, so, there is a pseudonym. People I know, know who I am, and people I have a relationship with online and trust (like JC) know my real name.
You? Your some punk who flew in here a few weeks ago and acts like he’s better than everyone else. you’re not. And you are the one who acts more like they have something to hide.
Once again, you are wrong on this one. Will you step up and admit it? You did Monday, and I commended you for it…
Punchy
This seems a little strawman-ish. I have not seen anyone (of course, I can’t read every single comment) tell Dr. Cole that he’s not doing his job. He’s doing as well as any Uni Prof could do in early May.
Davebo
Well John if it causes you to rethink your blogroll I’d say it’s a good thing.
Glenn Greenwald listed as “center to right”?
Nikki
You’d be amazed at what one and do with them. But a description would be so OT.
Cyrus
If there’s a pile-on against John right now, then let me just say that I’m not trying to join it, but anyways… the thing I’d disagree with in there is the “becoming” part. What has the blogosphere accomplished? Trent Lott lost his position as Senate majority leader (but he’s still in the Senate) because left-wingers wouldn’t let his praise of segregation go, Dan Rather was forced into early retirement (but he only had about five years left on his own) because of sloppy sourcing on a major news story, and… and… um, Daily Kos and RedState made a great show of bipartisan cooperation and good feeling by fighting regulation that would have hindered them both? If anyone else has examples, they’re welcome to share.
The point is, when was the blogosphere ever useful? There has been a lot of triumphalism about the power of blogs, but it seems pretty superficial to me. Complaining about the lack of reasonable discourse on blogs probably looks hilarious to anyone who used to read Usenet.
Blogs are fun and they (can be) educational and a good way to create a community and they (might, theoretically) expose people to new points of view, but expecting them to have more power or authority than newspapers or special interest groups is setting yourself up for disappointment.
ppGaz
On the John Cole subject: Except for those times when he is too busy, he puts in a tremendous amount of time and effort on this blogsite, and the fact that it is such an enjoyable place to hang out is due largely to his and Tim’s efforts.
Even when I am disagreeing with him and calling him hideous names for being wrong (by not agreeing with me), the above statement is still true.
I think it’s incumbent on all of us to show him the proper support when it’s needed, and also to send some contributions once in a while. In other words, please tip your server. Take a minute to do it right now, in fact.
Krista
Now that’s a good moniker. I’m disappointed that I didn’t adopt that when I first arrived here, but I used my own name because I thought I’d make a comment here or there, and probably not come back.
Umpteen commments later…
Pooh — thanks for filling in for me, hon. I can always count on you.
Pb
John Cole,
Aha, I see. Never mind the two issues I raised that might make some people think that he might be racist, as they said themselves. No, it was for a third reason which has nothing to do with those reasons, and you know this because…
And so I suppose the plagiarism that was uncovered had nothing to do with him either, eh? All a vast liberal plot?
Yeah, I think your mind reading act is Malkinesque here–smearing people as to their motivations with no evidence for and much against your pet prejudices, unlike Domenech’s.
But really, it’s not that Malkinesque–*this* is:
Mr Furious
Not a strawman. Happens all the time. Jim Allen was the offender here today. But basically, commenters here are constantly calling John out on failure to acknowledge events, especially when its a situation where they are waiting to gloat.
If John fails to acknowledge something that happened it’s just as likely to be because he didn’t feel like wasting his Saturday afternoon starting a fight with a bunch of malcontents, that the game was on, or that he had papers to grade as it is tacit support for the Administration (or whatever).
SeesThroughIt
A beer truck driven by hookers?
Mr Furious
The fact that I now actually should go earn some of my paycheck is in no way to be construed that I am leaving because I’m frightened of Brian’s next searing comeback.
Oh, and come to think of it, it’s also a reason not to use your real name…
Pb
Friday Hooker Blogging?
Punchy
I have a feeling this site would still be rich if Dr. Cole simply posted a bunch of open threads every so often. His comments are interesting, but it seems odd that some of his shortest posts–those with the least depth and analysis–bring on the most comments. In a sense, this place runs itself, and Dr. Cole is just the Principal Skinner of this site.
Brian
ppGaz,
I went out for the night last night, hence my “disappearance”. I don’t live for you or for the comments you bring to the table. I’m interested that you take pride in your vituperative language. That means you speak to your children/wife/grandchild/parents/neighbors/whatever that way, too.
Furious, what I have said earlier in this thread still stands. You take me to task mercilessly for my comments that are supposedly in ill taste, but you allow this other person to do so with impunity. That might explain why you never hear the points I’m making, or understand the arguments I’m drawing, because you’re intent to focus on what you like to consider “hate”, “racism”, “bigotry”, “sexism” (that’s Krista’s fav)….code words that are brought forth as both an attempt to crush debate and infer a meaning in the commenter’s argument (mine) that does not exist. It’s much easier for some to remain in a constant state of venom (ppGaz), or poke around for imaginary subtexts (Krista and you), rather than deal with anything head-on. Occasionally, progress is made on a subject, but that is the exception, not the rule.
Perry Como
Carrying backpacks full of coke.
Brian
Can I host this, John? (I don’t think Krista would approve though.)
The open threads are dangerous turf here. It’s an open invitation to a mudbath. My thought is that we should take a break from the politics every now and then, like with Beer Blogging, and do posts about neutral things, like the top 10 best rock bands, or our stories of our best trips on hallucinogens, etc.
SeesThroughIt
Oooh, I wanna be Super Nintendo Chalmers!
Brian
Mushroom Blogging
ppGaz
Uh no, that’s a lie. I take you to task for being (a)wrong, (b) a rightwing talking point robot, and (c) so over the top that it is only reasonable to take you as a spoof. Which I still do, and I think more and more people here do.
You’re an idiot, your politics is trailer trash, you’re a thinly disguised bigot on the immgration topics, and you are extraordinarily bad at this activity here. You deserve scorn and ridicule, and that’s what you’ll get from me.
And do people here have your actual email address and name? Because that’s a courtesy I always extend here, and I see no reason why shouldn’t, also. I’m very accessible. Are you?
The pseudonym on the posts is just to confound stalkers, but a visit to my url gets around it quite easily. Anybody who wants to contact me can do so … even you.
Oh, and go fuck yourself. Really, I mean that in the most sincere way possible.
Brian
ppGaz,
I was writing to someone else. When I want your input, I’ll address you directly.
ppGaz
Brian, kiss my ass. When I want my ass kissed, I will address you directly.
Punchy
OT: not sure how many of you here care, but Tiger Woods’ dad just died. Ouch.
ppGaz
Sorry to hear it. He has been ill for a long time.
Pb
Brian,
That explains so much… :)
Krista
Post away, friend. I’m starting to wonder about the sincerity of your apology the other day, though.
Brian, you’re just not getting it, so I’ll be very, very honest with you…not to insult you, but to try to get you to understand my point of view.
I am not offended by sexual banter, per se. I am not offended by ribaldry. As a general rule, I enjoy it, particularly if I know that the ribaldry is being done with humour, and with respect for all parties involved. However, I would also hope that the speaker would be considerate enough, that when told that they’ve gone too far, would do so, out of the spirit of courtesy and friendship. As well, I would hope that when the speaker is told that they’ve gone too far, that this speaker would not then inform me that my discomfort is my own fault, because I either a) introduced the topic, or b) played along up until that point.
In other words, Brian, just ’cause I wore a short skirt to this party, it doesn’t give you the right to grab my ass and then tell me I asked for it.
Steve
I find I have nothing to add to this incredibly excellent thread.
Brian
I had a very…..colorful…..youth. ;)
Mr Furious
Come on, Bri, be real. Merciless? Even over the last few days when I have taken you to task, I have been pretty fair (ask Krista), and gone out of my way to express my issues with things you have written, not you. I don’t think you’re a bad guy, and I have had good debates with you. You are being hyper-sensitive.
I have also in the past, and this week, called ppGaz out as well. On the “spoof” stuff, threadjacking and gratuitously calling people liars.
I’ll state for the record that you make some valuable contributions here along with some bonehead posts. That’s true of most of us. It’s partly why I try and engage you…you’re worth having around. If ppGaz thinks you’re a spoof, he can feel free to ignore you.
Now I have to get some work done.
ppGaz
Brian will now do his patented “Aw shucks, I’m just a regular fella” routine.
Prepare the cream pies.
Josh Trevino
While you make not like [Jane Hamsher], she is genuine, well-respected, and reasonable.
Where am I? Why does Spock have a goatee?
ppGaz
Try not to puff yourself up there too much, Furious.
I have never been “called out” by you, for anything.
My style is not aimed at making friends or being likeable. If anybody doesn’t like it, they can shove it.
The Darrells and Brians of the blog world are going to wear me like a collar. Does that annoy you? Tough shit.
Blue Neponset
It is sad to see that you aren’t enjoying this webpage too much lately John. I hope you find a way to start enjoying it again.
I also hope you are taking a vacation after classes are over. My recommendation: Montreal. It is the happiest place on Earth, IMO. If you can’t have a good time there then you should check your pulse because you may be dead.
Pb
Josh Trevino,
Welcome to the reality-based community. :)
Brian
My apology was sincere, as it should have been. Mr. Furious tried, further up this thread, to extract an apology from me again for something else altogether, but he won’t get one. I apologize when, and only when, I know that I am in the wrong.
And I’m not trying to be superior by saying this at all, but I have never seen such basic decency reciprocated to me on this site.
Perry Como
How about doing lines of coke off your ass? Would that be okay?
Faux News
:hits snooze button again:
Please re-read Mr. Furious’s remarks (see above). Truer words were never spoken here on BJ. If you were as talented and amusing as scs, you’re “brash, obnoxious right wing newbie” status would easily be over looked and enganging your Troll would actually be fun. Simply being told to “suck donkey dick” really doesn’t cut it.
By the way, try that stuff as a “brash, obnoxious left wing newbie” Troll on RedState.com (or God Forbid on the Free Republic blog) and you will literally be banned after your first post. You should thank Mr. Cole for his indulgence of your postings.
Krista
Really?
The Other Steve
Honestly, I don’t read Hamsher. Or AmericaBlog, or even Eschaton or Dailykos much any more. I come here, and I go to TalkingPointsmemo as well as TPMCafe and Muckraker. I like how Josh over at TPM is fair about savaging congress critters on ethical crap. That is, he’s just as willing to point out that Jefferson down in Lousiana has been indicted as Cunningham in California. He posted the details of what was going on with that WV house ethics cmte chair too so you could better understand what was happening.
But you’re right, as far as the gotcha politics goes, nothing ever gets debated from various sources. Malkin, Hamsher, whoever.
On the other hand, and this is where you and I disagree apparently. The Republican party went through this debate in 1987/1988 when Limbaugh hit the airwaves. A lot of Republicans didn’t like it because it was crap. It turned me completely off from the party, and I wandered the desert for a time.
But it turned out to be effective. Limbaugh and his style of politics is credited for the ’94 election wins, as well as the impeachment of Clinton which contributed to the loss by Gore in 2000.
So you stood idoly by while Limbaugh played his game.
Now that the left is playing the same game, now you’re complaining and calling it unfair.
canuckistani
After the 2004 election, I was flabbergasted. Everything I had read on the left-wing news sites I visit led me to believe that George Bush was heading for a crushing defeat. I was seriously wrong. I was living in the echo chamber.
My solution was to get out and read what the right wing was saying. And I found a two-headed conservative creature. I recoiled with horror and loathing from the Malkins and Green Footballs, but here, and on a few other sites, I found small-c conservatives with whom I was pleased to discover a few shared values and insights into the views I did not share.
I’m sorry you have to put up with a lot of idiocy, but you are running a very good web site, and I hope that you can develop an amused tolerance for the poo-flinging monkeys of the internet.
Brian
You’re like a court jester. Like a village idiot. A Little Napoleon. You’re never a serious threat, either intellectually, or otherwise, so stop suffering from such delusions of grandeur.
Krista
Perry — No. Hardly. I’d ask you if you were on crack, but it would complement your joke a bit too well.
Brian
Get over yourself. It’s a needle in a haystack.
ppGaz
I’m sorry … being unlikeable is a delusion of grandeur?
Jesus, you are really bad at this!
ppGaz
Yeah. Who knew, right?
ppGaz
Non sequitur of the day.
Blue Neponset
So true, ppGaz. That is why I think Brian is a 15 year old kid. He crosses the line over and over again and then expects everyone to ignore it.
FYI Brian….in the adult world if you insult people over and over again don’t expect them to take you seriously.
ppGaz
That’s right Blue. If I call Brian a stupid fuck, it’s because he has met the International Stupid Fuck Identification Criteria, and for no other reason.
The standard is published and widely available. I am just doing what any responsible citizen would do.
Krista
All jokes aside, John, I am curious: IS there some sort of ominous consequence to anybody who breaks this pledge? Would they automatically be taken off of the others’ blogrolls?
Pb
The Other Steve,
I disagree with the premise, more or less–Limbaugh and friends are unique to the right. There are no lefty versions of Limbaugh that would come close in both influence and rhetorical idiocy–the man has “between 14 and 20 million listeners per week”, and he’s infamous for his venom, his blatant lies, and his cowardly attacks:
The Other Steve
That’s a fair point. Even with all the Jane Hamshers of the left combined together into a super collosal Transformers robot, it’s still just a shadow of the right wing smear machine.
Personally I despise that level of discourse and would prefer we did not have it. But I don’t think it’s at all wise for the left to once again go through a unilateral disarming only to get shot in the back by Limbaugh and his ilk.
The best move is to discredit them all, which is kind of what Colbert does by making fun of it.
Pb
The Other Steve,
Ooo, you know my weakness! Hamsherbots, combine to form Supercilion!
Agreed, it’s fun and easy. Why just fling it back when you can use it for fertilizer…
SeesThroughIt
I know, weird, isn’t it. What’s funny is that the Malkins/LGFers of the world will swear up and down that they are the real, true conservatives and that those other folks are just lilly-livered, compromising pantywaists. Well, that’s funny and disturbing because it perpatuates the divide-and-conquer mentality the right wing is running with these days. Compromise is weak. Bargaining is for losers. That sort of thing. I too enjoy discussion with rational conservatives because I find that we do share some values and they do offer good insight as to why they hold values I do not, and then we can amicably move on. Fortunately, I know such people in my real life. I’d hate to have to try to find them on the onanosphere.
Zinger of the Day right there.
ppGaz
Are you sure that Brain didn’t write most of these?
They look like his work.
Hey, aren’t we going to cover the “Bill Bennett is not a racist” angle here today?
I demand equal time!
Mr Furious
ppGaz,
I don’t know what the definition of “called out” is, and I am not trying to position myself as some kind of thread patrol. I have voiced my opinion on your declaring people spoofs, liars and engaging in endless bullshit with Darrell in just the last few days. You can obviously do whatever the hell you want, that’s up to you and our host. I’m just saying that stuff can get tedious for me. Others agreed.
My point is not that I have a problem with you—I don’t—but to explain to Brian that he is not being picked on. Not by me at least.
Mr Furious
Oh, and Brian,
I was not trying to extract an apology out of you upthread. By no means. I just wanted you to realize that I think you are wrong. Something you were big enough to acknowledge the other day even BEFORE you apologized to Krista.
You don’t owe me or anyone else an apology for expressing your opinion.
(Even if it’s wrong… :-) )
ppGaz
Well, tough. Darrell sits here and lies and weasels his way through thread after thread, and you yell at me for going after him.
Honestly, I think that’s just stupid. But if you want to be Darrell’s lawyer, go right ahead. Makes no difference to me whatever.
Brian
Heh. I serve as a reference for wrong-headedness.
You are the decider of rightitude. (As Dubya would say it.)
ppGaz
Pretty much.
ppGaz
Can you send me an email? I have a question for you that needs to be asked offline.
thx.
Mr Furious
Jesus. I’m not Darrell’s lawyer. As I said the other day the two of you going back and forth sucks for the rest of us.
No. Go after him. You usually make your point and expose him the first time. And he never steps up no matter how many times you do it again… I’m just saying give the thread a break and drop it after a while.
Off Colfax
Pardon me whilst I interject some non-attacking words here…
John, if you’re going to delink those that don’t sign it, would you be willing to link those, whom you in your infinite wisdom and mercy [/asskiss] you deem worthy, who have signed onto the statement of principles?
This concludes this episode of Whoring For Blogrolls with your special host, OC.
ppGaz
Heh.
Exactly.
Heh heh. Heh. Heh heh.
tBone
Damn, missed all the fun here today.
Brian, I see you’re still in rare form. I thought MWF were the days when you let the Nice Guy Bri persona out.
Mr Furious
Done. Check your email. If for some reason I botched your address, you can find mine at my blog.
ppGaz
I sent an email to the addy on your blog.
Is that the one you use?
Robert
Hey, John, I agree with it too, and signed! Can you give me one of the slots in your blogroll that you purge? :)
Mr Furious
tBone,
Nice guy Bri goes appears every other hour, not day. :-)
Brian
What part of “When I want your input, I’ll address you directly” don’t you understand?
Brian
I’m nice pretty consistently. It’s when you’ve got one of your filters on, you can’t see it, and only perceive the base forms of my content.
Take off the filters, and see the light.
ppGaz
The part where I give a shit what you want?
ppGaz
Heh.
Heh heh.
I think our time is about up for today …..
tBone
Years of beer goggle experience in college tell me this is an exceedingly bad idea.
Jane Finch
Amen, John.
Mr Furious
Jane Finch, john, et al…
When Jane is at her worst. At her most agitated, she might be fairly compared to Malkin. But Hamsher has many viable posts worthy of reading for a lawyer’s perspective and a measured opinion.
Malkin, on the other hand, is nearly always at full screech, and in my opinion rarely if ever has a post that is really contributing in any way to anything but widening and exploiting the partisan gap.
Ampersand
I didn’t even know who Jane Hamsher was – I had to look her up.
I know how you feel, I think. The least fun part of blogging for me is my own comments section.
The Other Steve
BTW, nobody noticed the escape clause.
Don’t refuse to sign it.
Just don’t sign it.
Perry Como
Get better commenters.
Sherard
Oy. Are you kidding me ? Yeah, because putting your electronic signature on that is just SO meaningful. Like acknowledging the company “code of integrity” by pressing “1” from the HR hotline.
It’s symbolic at best and “refusing” to sign it is at least as likely to mean someone recognizes the abject stupidity of putting so much emphasis on a symbolic gesture.
The Other Steve
Good point.
Anybody who “refuses” to sign this is more likely opposed to the pledge because of the stupidity of the authors and those promoting it, rather than any storng desire to talk about people’s private lives.
slickdpdx
A conversation that needs to happen. But a petition? Easy virtue.
crg
I don’t blog enough for anyone to give a shit whether I sign a pledge, but I wouldn’t sign this. I say that without reading the pledge.
Why would I sign any pledge like this, invented by random people who have decided to make themselves a regulating body?