Who will pay for Joe’s independent campaign? Republicans. Marshall Wittmann doesn’t have that much money.
Who will staff Joe’s independent campaign? Republicans. Every Democrat with any experience is already working on some other campaign, and even the imaginary world-class, currently-unemployed Democratic operative wouldn’t commit career suicide by being seen with Joe.
Who will staff Joe’s GOTV operation? Republicans. The union endorsements expired yesterday.
Joe will be the GOP’s boy in this race. He may not know it yet, or he does know it and he’s lying about it, but that’s a simple fact.
So, will Joe go full-on Pub or will he read the cards and drop out? I suppose that depends on how entrenched is his sense of entitlement. My bet is that he will justify the first GOP hire as an emergency stopgap thing, plus a little Frist PAC money to keep Gerstein busy. The next hire will be a little easier, and by the fourth or the sixteenth GOP operative the pain will be gone. Or else Joe’s conscience will speak up and he’ll simply pull up stakes and go home. One or the other.
Housekeeping note: For now ‘General Stupidity’ will stand in for stupidity involving Joe Lieberman’s personal political party, Connecticut for Lieberman. Depending on how things turn out that category will either fold into ‘Republican Stupidity’ or else become irrelevant.
ThymeZone
It was surreal watching Mehlman today refuse to answer, over and over again (Hardball), whether he would support the GOP candidate for Senator in Connecticut.
Well, I mean, more than surreal than it usually is watching Mehlman do anything.
Ancient Purple
Of course they weren’t fired, despite what Lieberman claims. None of his staff that worked on his “Democratic” campaign wants to be tagged with the “Sore Loserman” meme. They would never work in Democratic circles again.
Frankly, I think you are correct that it is a toss up on how he will react. His ego is so gigantic, he can’t see how this could hurt him permanently.
The fact is that if he were to, in a miracle, win back his Senate seat as a independent, the Democrats won’t seat him on committees, and the jury is still out as to whether or not they will allow him to caucas with them. The only scenario I can see that happening is if the Senate is 50-49 and they need Holy Joe to be the one to keep Cheney from being the tie breaker in the Senate. Anything short of that and Joe is nothing to them.
On the other side, the Republicans aren’t going to allow him to caucas with them as an independent because he is too liberal in their view.
When you are marginalized that much, you cannot effectively represent your state’s interests.
Lieberman should have learned from last night that voters don’t like their elected officials in Washington to be out of touch with the people back home.
Perry Como
He may be working on an exponential sense of entitlement. Currently there is Lieberman and Peretz. Consider the following forumla:
E = L ^ R
L = Lieberman + Peretz
R = the number of Republicans[0] that will openly support Lieberman
E = Liberman’s sense of entitlement
I predict a stack overflow by the general electorate.
[0] – Karl Rove = ∞
DougJ
Check out the video here and tell me if you Karl and Ken haven’t lost their though.
ThymeZone
Apparently, Doug, the K-men have stolen your brain. With great courage, though, and unable to form a sentence, you post anyway. God bless you, man.
But anyway, that GOP thing is bizarre, and I think it shows just how far down the rabbit hole these guys have gone. I think that the bullshit is going to backfire.
And, what were you trying to say, exactly? I can’t make it out.
Perry Como
Begging to be spoofed.
Andrew
Wait, GOP.com isn’t already a spoof?
Pb
Wow, that page is a riot. Peace Through Strength–it’s called *not* invading Iraq. And then, they showcase all of these great Democratic quotes which are still completely contrary to the actions of the current Republican party. I have no idea what they’re getting at here, I didn’t read the rest, and the video wasn’t loading for me, but as usual, if they had a point in there, I didn’t see it. Republicans: they’re still incompetent, incoherent, and insecure.
Vladi G
Lieberman’s staff should just all show up for work tomorrow, explaining that they all refuse to take the hint. If Lieberman can’t figure out when he’s been fired, neither can they.
By the way, I would love, love, love Lieberman to name Whittman as his press secretary. What an awesome sight it would be to see him step in front of reporters and answer the first question by saying “The Moose believes…..”
DougJ
Meant to say:
Check out the video here and tell me if you think Karl and Ken haven’t lost their touch.
ThymeZone
Ah, their touch. Well, yes. And their minds. And their souls. And any credibility they may have had with anyone with a brain. They are now in the business of blaming Americans for terrorism, much in the same way that Jerry Falwell would do. If you vote for the wrong candidates, you will cause terrorism. Only Republican candidates will protect you. How fucking insane is that? How sick?
That fucking website is every bit as insane as any spoofapalooza shit we have seen out there.
Steve
This sounds like the best possible news for Lieberman. In case anyone hasn’t noticed, Republicans tend to run really good campaigns, and Democrats tend to run really bad ones. One of the awesome things about this primary was being on the opposite side from the incompetent Democratic consultants, for once.
Samantha Bee on The Daily Show tonight: “If Lieberman loses in November, he plans to start his own Senate…”
Pyst
DougJ! You old psycho we miss you over at TMV. We got’s some brand new freaky freaks that are so deep in the kool aid it’d put your old play acting to shame. You’d swear they are putting us on, but they aren’t LOL. Anyways thought I’d say yo to you man.
ats
Peretz is right. Lieberman’s staff can’t quit now. Not when the Democratic Party is being taken over by the Weathermen and Hezzbollah!
Sleep with the light on, Stockpile chromium. Stay tuned to Atlas Shrugged for the latest bulletins.
Rusty Shackleford
Did you catch Mehl-Man’s expression when Matthews called bullshit at the very end of the interview? Priceless.
Andrew
RED ALERT! RED ALERT! TERRORISTS!!!! ONLY LIBERMAN CAV SAVE US! TO THE BUNKER!
Rudi
Pyst,
You rant over here at BJ now. It is always fun to watch Holly and MvdG sqirm when someone catches them streching the truth. Maybe Darrell can move over to TMV.
Punchy
Should I read that as rhyming with “rub”, or rhyming with “lube”??
Ancient Purple
Funny how they are stating that this has “footprints of Al Qaeda” but can’t verify that and decided to raise the terroist level to RED.
And on the heels of a race where Bush’s concubine Lieberman got his ass kicked at the ballot box.
Until there is much, much, much more evidence, I will keep my BS meter on.
ThymeZone
You can set it on “low” for these creeps, and still set it off.
We know that they will use Iraq, and manipulate Iraq, for political reasons. We know that they will use 911 for political purposes. We know that they will steal the Social Security trust fund for political purposes. We know that they will circumvent federal law for political purposes. We know that they will stop enforcing some federal laws, for political purposes. We know that they will superimpose political and religious motives onto medical and drug regulation, for political purposes.
We know that they will interfere with science, badmouth science, and try to suppress information about science, for political purposes.
We know that they will try to interfere with the medical care and right-to-die decisions of citizens, for political purposes.
What exactly would be the argument that would convince any reasonable person that they wouldn’t use this threatened attack, or even invent the story, for political purposes? That they wouldn’t gin up a war in the Middle East that can be taken to involve Iran and Syria, right before a US election, for political purposes?
What would be the argument that they should be taken at face value on any subject whatever, under any conditions, at this point?
Punchy
Ah…now it becomes clear. First, Leibs loses. They need to change the headlines….NOW I read that Israel will suspend it’s ground offensive until the weekend–so as to KEEP this story in the front, and not allow an Israeli fuckup to overshadow this.
This arrest was planned for this date months ago. This is so choreographed as to be just obvious. I wonder if I’ll be arrested for taking Diet Coke and Menthos on the plane next time I fly…
mrmobi
What ThymeZone and Punchy said.
ThymeZone
A NYT pay-for-view columnist writes today:
Just add this to the list of things that the GOP won’t hesitate to lie about, manipulate or fuck up for its own political purposes. At this point, we can’t assume that any decision or action taken by any Republican in government is grounded in any concern or regard for the public’s interests whatsoever. These guys are in this entirely for themselves, and we are the extras in their movie. Every move they make, every action they take, every decision, every statement …. self justifying, self serving, manipulative, crooked, corrupt, dishonest, twisted in favor of Republican advantage and Republican grip on power.
Government of, by and for the political machine.
mrmobi
Because I thinki we’re going to be hearing a lot of crap like the spew over at GOP.com that DougJ linked to, here’s something from Digby about the VietNam and Iraq wars:
Amen.
Steve
I kind of chuckle when I see people suggest that each and every terrorism-related report is carefully timed to change the tenor of the headlines. The timing is highly suspicious because it comes right after the Connecticut primary? Wouldn’t it make more sense to announce this BEFORE the primary, to give “tough on terror” Lieberman a boost?
The fact is that there is always something happening in the political world – that’s what fuels all the political blogs – and thus the timing is always “suspicious.” Oh no, the Vice President shot a man in the face, time to fake another bin Laden tape!
Just because I find it silly that these allegations get made each and every time a story breaks, that doesn’t mean I don’t agree that TZ has a point. Digby noted something that I’ve been thinking about for quite some time:
Iraq was such a massive fuck-up that none of these guys have any credibility left. If you want to argue that Iran is a huge threat, we need to do something about it, yadda yadda, the problem is that guys like me simply don’t want to get fooled again. Which makes us disinclined to believe you even though, for all I know, you could magically be 100% right this time! If you gave the same dire warnings on Iraq that you now give on Iran or Syria or wherever – and particularly if you still think the Iraq war was a great idea – how can you have any credibility remaining?
demimondian
Oh, for heaven’s sake. This has veered into the realm of pure paranoia.
If, as Punchy says, the arrest was planned months ago, then *it was planned back when Holy Joe was expeted to win*. Why in God’s name plan to have a victory for your team overshadowed by a failure? More, the Israeli suspension was announced some hours before the arrests. What’s the cause and effect issue here?
Rather than wasting energy on conspiracy theories, what about pointing out that the fact that the plot got as far as it did is a failure, in and of itself? The fact that the British response doesn’t solve the core problems of remote activation — that, in fact, an attack via remote activation could bounce signals off satellites?
How about working to establish a more accurate meme, that yet again, our leadership in the United States and in Britain is engaging in broad, dramatic gestures without thinking about whether they’ll actually work *at all*? It’s “no scissors on planes* yet again… Serious. Solid.
Stoooopid.
mrmobi
From the same Digby article that Steve and I linked to:
Like Digby, I’m fucking sick of “Rove’s bitches” accusing anyone who dares question their crusade with capitulation and treason. This isn’t a debate for them, it’s strictly a disinformation campaign in the style of Joseph Goebbels. This time, it’s not going to work.
Ancient Purple
demi,
You raise excellent points. However, while I am not claiming some grand conspiracy, I am willing to sit back and wait for more evidence to roll in.
I am a bit shy after being told that someone was going to take down the Brooklyn Bridge (with a blow torch) or that some guys in South Beach were literally minutes away from bringing down the Sears Tower (because “thinking” about it is the same as a full plot).
The stories are saying that this has “footprints of Al Qaeda” which means, for all intents and purposes, that we have no idea if this has anything to do with Al Qaeda or not.
Like I said, I am willing to sit and wait.
There is no downside to that.
ThymeZone
I’m not making those allegations. I am saying that this government is dishonest and corrupt, and it would be unwise for any citizen to take their pronouncements at face value. The door has to be left open to the possibility that they are fucking with something, always, because …. they have done so, so many times in the past.
No, it’s not about Cheney shooting a guy to cover a particular story. It’s about the fact … fact, not possibility … that every single word of every story, announcement, and action that comes from this administration is suspect all the time. They have proven to us that this kind of scrutiny is necessary. We’d have to be fools not to get it by now.
And if a simple assertion like that can’t be made in here without you turning it into some kind of rampant hysterical paranoia, then what the fuck? Shall we all just sit back and receive only the stream of government press releases as our source of information going forward from here?
If five years of this lying bullshit hasn’t at least made us skeptical, then what are we doing here and what are we talking about?
Punchy
Cause and effect. “Voting for peaceniks is DANGEROUS…just look at what horrible terror plot we’ve uncovered TODAY!! Voting for guys like Lamont will put you in danger!! Just consider how dangerous this world is…Look! Bombs on Planes!”
THAT’S how they’re portraying this. THIS is why they waited until after this primary upset. This isn’t about Leib. It’s about saving the House in General. Go ahead, chuckle. But answer me this:
Why all the orange alerts just before the 2004 elections? How come, if this danger persists always and everywhere, that there was not a SINGLE orange “alert” from Nov. 2004 until just today? Why no alerts in non-election cycles? 18 months of no terrorist plots, and suddenly, 90 days out, there’s this one (and more to follow)?
Nevermind, it’s paranoia. Our gov’t wouldn’t manipulate the news cycle. I’m sure Israel just decided to quit fighting for 2 days–out of the blue–to have a toga party. Oddly, CNN now has nothing Israel-related to broadcast for 2 days. I’ll bet they’ll stick to stories on Brad Pitt in the interim.
Andrew
Come on guys, it’s only been 5 years since 9/11. They need a little more time to kill the terrorists. If we don’t fight the terrorists before they board the aircraft over there, we’ll have to fight them here. Or over the Atlantic. Probably over the Atlantic.
WHY HAVEN’T WE SPENT BILLIONS ON A WAY TO INSERT SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES ONTO A JET PLANE AT 30,000 FEET??!?!?!?
Get Chertoff on this ASAP!
Also, what is the FedEx rate for a 6′ tall, 185lb package?
Steve
I said I agreed with your point. But come on…
…you don’t think that’s a bit much?
ThymeZone
Funny stuff, Andrew. Really.
However…. notice how easy it is for the turrists to basically disable travel without actually firing a shot.
If I own airline stock, this worries me a lot.
ThymeZone
In a kindler, gentler world.
Not in this world. Your country is being run by crazy liars who are fucking up the world as we speak.
I don’t think moderation in speech is what we need at the moment. I’m a Dean fan. Shove the sharp sticks up the asses of these people until they say howdy.
I wish it weren’t necessary.
Punchy
You must not have seen CNN this morning. They were acting as if it’s time to use the plastic sheeting and duct tape. First, watch how crass the Republicans will be in using this incident/dream/plot to smear Democrats. Next, count how many days are left before the all-important elections. Finally, google up House polls and see how many Repubs are behind.
But I’m sure that’s all a bit much.
Par R
An example from the prior thread of just how removed from civil discourse much of the moonbat Left has become:
I remain unconvinced that Americans, not the useless scum residing on the outer fringes of the Left, will endorse those that regurgitate such nasty and tasteless sentiments.
Steve
Yep, yep, I’ve heard this before. If you don’t believe 9/11 was an inside job, you must believe the government would never lie to us. If you don’t believe that Israel starts and stops its attacks to ensure that certain stories remain in the US news headlines, then you must think our government never tries to manipulate the news cycle.
There’s nothing wrong with being suspicious. The initial reports have been overblown on virtually every terrorism-related story (like the terror cell in Florida that turned out to be a couple crazy homeless guys) and I’d be surprised if the same doesn’t hold true here. But I think the idea that the whole thing was staged to come right after the primary election, as opposed to when it could have actually influenced the outcome, just makes no sense as a matter of logic. And I think the suggestion that Israel halted its ground offensive to make sure this terror plot remains the top story on CNN for a while is just flat-out crazy.
You can believe whatever you want, but it’s hard to retain much credibility when everything is always some kind of elaborate conspiracy involving Karl Rove and Israel. It’s like the folks at dkos who scream “DIEBOLD!!!” every time an election goes the other way – without even bothering to check if the election actually used electronic voting. There could be actual, widespread election fraud going on in this country – but it will never come to light because the nutters have already thrown away their credibility on the issue.
Steve
To be clear, the reason I’m not a fan of claiming that Israel halted its ground offensive as part of a conspiracy to keep the terror plot in the US headlines is that I think it’s a crazy theory. It has nothing to do with “moderation in speech.”
Sometimes when you’re living in crazy times you have to tell the truth even if it sounds crazy. That doesn’t mean, however, that sounding crazy is good in its own right.
Punchy
So, Israel OKs a larger ground offensive. They’ve been moving at lightning speed in days past to inflict as much damage as possible before a cease-fire. But yet they stop today for 2 days. Why did they stop, Steve?
Bombadil
What’s the matter, Par, couldn’t find anything you could use to queer the thread here? You have to cross over with something completely unrelated?
John S.
I too remain unconvinced that Americans are unhappy with the job Bush is doing. Clearly, the overwhwelming majority of Americans exist on the extremist fringe of the Left for having such an unfavorable view of the man. Indeed, every major news organization and polling organization is regurgitating such nasty and and tasteless sentiments.
Par R. – Spoof extraordinaire.
Krista
Point 1: Tsulagi’s not running for office.
Point 2: Those on the left who ARE running for office aren’t going to use expressions like that, you fool.
Point 3: Even if they did, I think most Americans (about 61 percent, actually) are getting to the point where they find a mismanaged war, a mismanaged economy, and a mismanaged country a bit more nasty and distasteful than some naughty words.
John S.
Ok, what the hell?
3 links now puts a post into moderation? I don’t understand how allowing people to link to sources to backup their arguments is a BAD thing.
demimondian
Purple has it right — these guys are crooks, and they nowt only will, but they do and they have manipulated the news cycle. We can’t ignore that fact. (Hey, did anybody notice that the judge in Miami is threatening to throw out the indictment against Padilla for lack of evidence? Hey, Karl, was that a dirty bomb or a dirty lie?) However, the whole “Rove’s gonna…I dunno…do sumpin to us…” line is beyond stale.
You can always find coincidences; like Steve said, there’s always something going on, and you can always pair things. This kind of crap is paranoia. You don’t have the evidence to support your claims, and there are _a priori_ far better explanations for which there is extrinsic evidence.
Instead of wasting that energy jumping at shadows, how about crafting the response? “How do these new drestrictions fight terror?” “Hey, President Bush, where’s Osama if this is Al Qaeda? In the light of Madrid, London, and the on-going terrorism in Iraq, do you still ‘not think about him much’?”
“How do these actions help protect airplanes? Why is this going to do anything to prevent the smuggling of bombs into cargo holds? How would this prevent a Lockerbie-style disaster, again?”
demimondian
So, um, Punchy? Who’s going to enforce this cease-fire? The UN? Saudi Arabia? Syria?
There will be an Israeli cease-fire when Israel says so. Nobody else is going to push them, and we all know it. As a result, your line about “as much damage as possible before a cease-fire” is bogus.
On the other hand, an authorization for an attack is the perfect great big diplomatic club. The Knesset just handed the IDF the right to attack — and do you know what you do when you’ve just done that? Two things: mass troops for the actual attack, and “give diplomacy time to work”. Your enemies are now on notice that you can attack whenever you want, and that when you do attack, it’s going to be bloody. They’re generally in a more…giving…mood during that time.
Sherard
Why am I not surprised. Lieberman essentially fires his campaign staff and Moonbat boy comes up with the brilliant headline “Staff walks” as if they abandoned Lieberman or some such nonsense.
There is a dire shortage “truthiness” at this site of late.
demimondian
*If* a simultaneous attack on many targets at once was planned, then the attack does have the central stigmatum of Al Qaeda’s style, so the statement is true as made.
Any inferences beyond that, though…not so much.
Punchy
These are all just coincidence, I’m sure:
1) The only thing the GOP trumps Dems in is in areas of security
2) The only thing that frightens Americans and makes them cognizant of their (in)security more than a dirty bomb is another 9/11
3) Republicans are currenly WAY behind Dems in several races the GOP needs to avoid losing the House in Nov.
4) Losing the House in Nov. will effectively shut down the Bush Presidency, in terms of policy and investigations.
And it’s pure coincidence that the “terror colors” only move 4 months before an election…all the other time in between…well…nobody ever plots anything, right?
Tsulagi
Joe knows he’s now the Gooper’s dog in this race. While some may question his intelligence now, no one on either side of the aisle or middle can deny he brings far more functioning brain cells to the table than the single digit total in the object of his love. A single fleeting kiss is not good enough for Joe. He wants more.
My guess? Bipartisan will be the buzz word in Holy Joe’s campaign. Any Pubes working for him will be bipartisans working for the good of the country. For the “good of the country”=Joe+Bush sitting in a tree k.i.s.s.i.n.g.
Dollars flowing into his campaign laundered from Republican sources will be bipartisan money seeking to move the country away from evil partisan politics of the past. C’mon, you think he hadn’t thought this through before primary day? People may be used to Bush, but not everyone is certifiably brain dead.
demimondian
It might help to know that there had been reports that the staff was going to remain loyal to the party if he went Independent after the primary for some days before Lieberman lost. You know that, of course, talking-point-boy, but I wanted to keep other people from being deceived.
Dr. Freud loves you. You’re right — the site hasn’t bought into the truthy-but-not-true statements your side has been peddling. I don’t think you’ve accdepted it consciously, but verbal slips like that are often important milestones in therapy; the repressed knowledge you’ve been avoiding is starting to bubble through. Keep it up.
demimondian
Yes.
DougJ
Is that Tom Maguire’s blog? I’ve been banned there. There are a lot of nuts over there, I must say. I check back every now and then.
Steve
Yes, that must be the case. All those reports that Lieberman’s staff told him they wouldn’t work on an independent run must be false, because Sherard says so.
It’s “nonsense.” Haven’t you heard? Sherard says so!
Steve
I don’t have the faintest idea why. Does that mean I have to accept that Karl Rove told them to halt the ground offensive so his trumped-up terror plot could dominate the headlines?
Punchy
Absolutely not. But it does not mean its crazy batshit paranoia to consider it a possibility. That’s all I’m saying.
Tim F.
That has always been part of our spam filter. Given the shit that I delete every day (at $0 an hour Cole really doesn’t pay me enough for that) I think that the inconvenience is more than worth it.
DougJ
What do you guys think about the Lamont campaign workers who just got arrested in London? Do you think they’re the same people who hacked into Lieberman’s website?
SeesThroughIt
That was a great segment. So, too, was the segment by Aasif Mandvi making light of how BushCo. keeps referring to all the death in the Middle East as “an opportunity.” That was pretty much the definition of scathing comedy all the way through:
But the kicker was his closing line/joke about 9/11 and how it was a tremendous “opportunity” for America. That was brave and brilliant. I actually sort of gasped at that because, well, the truth hurts, and that was a fantastically delivered truth.
Nutcutter
Wow. Par, unconvinced. That’s good enough to make me rethink all my positions.
Fuck you, Par. Who cares what you think? America thinks that George Bush is a walking, talking joke.
Don’t take my word for it. Let’s see what bullshit you have on the day after election day.
SeesThroughIt
Is that filter a part of your publishing software or an aftermarket add-on?
Edmund Dantes
I was in teh studio audience for that show last night. The 9/11 joke was ballsy. There were some scattered laughs (I was one of them), but the rest of it was definitely shock “I can’t believe he jsut said that”. I haven’t watched it yet to hear how it came out over the mikes.
How did it sound to you watching it at home?
Par R
The NUT says, more or less:
Nutcutter
I have no idea. But I do know who cares what you think.
Steve
Funny, but not in a laughing kind of way. The whole sketch was just brilliantly savage.
Tim F.
We use the Bad Behavior plugin. It’s a great little piece of software.
Nutcutter
Understood. But isn’t the thing configured to go to moderation at two links? Or have we been tinkering with it?
I have no problem with three, but two is pretty tight.
John S.
I thought it was three myself, not two.
But anyway Tim, I understand what you’re saying. I’ll just limit myself to two links per post from now on.
John S.
Pretty much the way you described it. But I thought the analogy was awesome – and accurate. Anyone who doesn’t think that 9/11 was seen by this administration as an ‘opportunity’ is fucking insane.
DBL
Tim,
I’m not sure you understand very much about Connecticut politics. I live in Connecticut, so maybe I can help you out.
The Democratic Party is pretty small here. It’s only 33% of the electorate. Half of the Democrats voted in the primary and a hair over half of those voted for Lamont. So, about 9% of the registered voters in Connecticut pulled the lever for Lamont.
The Republican Party is even smaller, it’s only 22% of the electorate.
The power in Connecticut is held by the independents – they make up 45% of the electorate. None of them voted in the primary. By and large, they do not care at all whether Joe Lieberman strengthened or weakened the Democratic Party. They do not care one whit whether he “stepped on the message” that the Party was trying to put out. They don’t care about parties. They don’t care if their Senator was trying to cross party lines or build bridges to the other party; in fact, they like stuff like that. They really like it. For the most part, they don’t hate Bush, either, although they may not agree with his conduct of the Iraq War.
Bottom line: It’s pretty likely that a majority of the voters in Connecticut will pull the lever for Lieberman come November. The vast bulk of the Lieberman voters will be independents, although he’ll probably draw support from both Democratic and Republican voters. But the Republican Party in Connecticut is so small that even if they all voted for him, he would lose unless he could get a substantial majority of the independents. He will, and that’s why he’ll win. That’s democracy, not letting 9% of the voters decide who should be the next senator from Connecticut.
mrmobi
I’m with you Steve. That said, I’m deeply suspicious of this government. This is going to date me, but I was a teenager when JFK was killed, and it took me a couple of decades to come to grips with that. Don’t get me started about conspiracy theories. You end up feeling like you have bees living in your head. And tin-foil hats are damned uncomfortable.
It appears that the administration has the knives out again, portraying the Lamont primary victory as helpful to “Al-Qaeda types.” Karl Rove is going to continue to be Karl Rove. But there is plenty of evidence that they are a bunch of fuckwits, such as:
Indiana. Think about that. There is also the Katrina response, which shows (among other things) how poor a job this government has done in implementing the 9/11 Commission recommendations.
We aren’t anywhere near ready for another attack like 9/11. I’m happy to see that the Brits have stopped another plot, but our security here at home is plagued by poor planning (9/11 Commission recommendations), lack of funding (ports), and good old-fashioned stupidity (Indiana, for Christ’s sake!).
If the Bush administration thinks Indiana is the most “target-rich” state, its got to be the safest place in the US.
ThymeZone
Wow, two bets I can win in one assertion.
Bet A: Lieberman will drop out of the race. He can’t raise money, his support system is all Republican, and he is making himself look uglier every day. Just today, he is blaming Americans for terror attacks. I think his line of bullshit has run its course.
Bet B: If he is stupid enough to stay in all the way, he will lose. Again.
Right now you can get these wagers even-up. As time goes on, the odds will shift strongly in my favor.
ThymeZone
That’s right Steve …. what’s right and true always depends on people being vewy quiet about the thing.
That’s the whole secwet. Shhhh …….
What kind of fucking upside down reality is that? Officials and citizens have a responsibility … to each other … to get voting and counting right. It’s not a contest to see who can out-snark or out-PR the other.
The world is not the FUCKING blogosphere, in other words.
Are you going to sit there and tell me that we may be stuck with a broken electoral infrastructure because it’s now politically incorrect to challenge the one we have?
Then it’s time to THROW OUT the people who think that way, fire them, run them out of town on a rail, tar and feather them. Fuck them very much.
We are going to have honest elections in this country, even if we have scream bloody fucking murder to get it. In fact, probably because we scream bloody fucking murder to get it.
Jesus. Where did people get the idea that being quiet and polite was the secret to advancing democracy in a world full of shit?
Steve
No, it’s not “politically incorrect” to blame Diebold for an election result where Diebold wasn’t involved.
It’s simply stupid, and counterproductive because it destroys your credibility for the next time when there might actually be fraud. And it harms the credibility of like-minded people who try not to allege fraud unless there’s actually reason to suspect fraud.
I don’t know where I supposedly said that people need to “be very quiet” about election fraud. I said they need to be smarter about alleging election fraud. That means not flying off the handle and assuming the existence of fraud every time an election doesn’t go the way you like.
Steve
But as a Connecticut resident, surely you know that thousands upon thousands of independents re-registered as Democrats to vote in this particular primary.
Every Democrat had a chance to vote in the primary. It’s silly to say that “only 9%” got to decide the election – as if the people who voted for Lieberman were disenfranchised, as if the people who chose not to vote were disenfranchised.
And the independents had a chance to vote, too, if they really wanted to, not that I have a problem with them remaining independent. So it’s far more than the 33% of registered Democrats who had a chance to make their voice heard.
Sure, it’s not 100%. But why even have primaries at all, if you’re going to object to anything less than the full electorate having a say about who gets on the ticket?
You shouldn’t take two bites at the apple. If Lieberman truly felt it was wrong to let anything less than the full population of Connecticut decide his reelection, then he should have run as an independent all along. You don’t get to claim to be a proud Democrat in hopes of winning the primary, and then once you lose, take a second shot. All the while blaming the actual Democratic nominee for causing terrorism.
Yes, you heard it right, folks. Proud Democrat Joe Lieberman, who still claims to be running as an “independent Democrat” in hopes of picking up a few extra votes, is accusing the Democratic nominee of being responsible for terrorism. If we follow Ned Lamont’s policies in Iraq, we’d have more terrorist attacks like the one that just got foiled in England. Yes, this is the guy who was decrying nasty and partisan politics just the other night!
Par R
DBL‘s post on Connecticut politics and how Joe Lieberman will fare as an independent, squares perfectly with virtually everything I’ve read or heard about the situation on the ground in the Nutmeg state. I note, however, that a Moonbat functioning under the moniker, “ThymeZone,” holds a contrary view that appears to draw upon emotion and hate as the inspiration for his belief; it appears unlikely that he’s ever set foot outside of an institutiion, let alone visited Connecticut.
DBL
One other point about Connecticut.
I live in a small town (pop. 17,000) and can’t speak for the bigger cities, but in my town we use 50-year-old mechanical voting machines.
Tim F.
DBL,
You conveniently forget that for Joe to make a credible run he needs money and men. Independents have great ideals but what they don’t have is infrastructure. Which are the well-funded Independent PACs distributing money to key races? What base of experienced volunteers does the Independent party call on for GOTV operations? Joe has two places to go for the things he needs and one won’t return his calls. That means that Joe will either go with the GOP or go home. If it’s the former then he will dance with those that brung him.
SeesThroughIt
Yeah, I agree. Personally, I was laughing along with the jokes, and when he did the line about 9/11, I didn’t laugh at first and just kinda went “…ooooh….” It was a brilliant piece, hilarious, savage, and insightful. And the 9/11 line was just perfect–the best possible capper to the whole situation.
BTW, as a former CT resident–hell, I grew up there–I have a love/hate relationship with the state. There’s plenty to like and dislike about it, but one thing I dug is that a comparatively high percentage of people just don’t give a shit about the two-party system and prefer to think for themselves. Of course, some of those people trend Republican, and some of them trend Democrat, but mostly, partisanship takes a back seat.
Andrew
Moreover, they STILL haven’t gotten Joe’s website up and running yet.
I know 7 year olds who are more competent.
bud
I’m sure that whatever reporter wrote that story talked to 100% of the campaign staff. Aren’t you? Sure, some of the staff would take that attitude, but some others would be more than happy to continue. I realize that the Dem party has inherited the tendency of the left to idealize lockstep party loyalty, but I can’t beleive that Leiberman would have hired 100% of these types.
When he assembles his new campaign staff, it would be interesting compare the old to new, and see how many got rehired. Those, like Ancient Purple, who think that working on an independent campaign is the kiss of death for Dem professionals doesn’t understand the word “professional”.
And Tim:
is a little over the top. Even without the points I raised above, he’s still a US Senator. Have you ever seen the size of his staff there? I know, they aren’t supposed to be involved in campaign matters. You aren’t that naive, are you?
He’s still a sitting US Senator with a very good chance of retaining his seat, and anyone who thinks that he’s going to have a hard time raising money is wrong. Some will come from Reps, of course, but a lot will come from the usual sources – folks that are not all that ideologcal, but want to insure “access”.
For those who profess a belief in the VKRC (vast Karl Rove Conspiracy), time to head back to the DU. I know that Tim tends to attract this sort of crowd, but I’d like to keep this as a somewhat rational discussion forum. There’s plenty of room in the echo chamber over there.
Tim F.
Funny, until bud’s comment I took it for granted that the readers were smart enough to distinguish between campaign staff and office staff. My bad.
Nutcutter
Well, “smarter” might include doing it somewhere besides here. I seriously doubt that the world looks to the Grand Central Station of Hot Air to know what is going on in election fraud and security.
This is a rainbarrell, I thought it was for hollering into.
When it comes to Diebold, I am profoundly unconvinced that an honest election tally can be reliably had with this technology. And I’m a technology guy. As a technology guy, if somebody said to me, how do you get secure and reliable vote counting, my answer would be: Paper ballots.
Therefore, I find it reasonable and proper to bitch about Diebold at every turn.
The Other Steve
Mark Kennedy(R-MN) has endorsed Joe Lieberman
He’s the GOP candidate for Senate, currently in the 6th house district.
I’m sure he probably thinks this is another way to run away from Bush, as recently he’s been saying he has no idea who Bush is. Never met him. In fact, he doesn’t even know how to spell the word Republican.
Someone ought to start a blog with Lieberman endorsements. I think I’ll send that idea to Josh Marshall.
The Other Steve
Here in the midwest we call those bribes.
The Other Steve
DBL wrote:
SurveyUSA CT tracking poll on Bush
According to this 65% of independents Hate Bush.
Tim F.
Actually he means ordinary contributions from the pharmaceutical, biotech, defense and banking industries. Joe will probably get those just like before, although that will be significantly reduced if the Dems strip Joe of his seats or if the firms decide to split their donations with Lamont.
However Joe will have a very hard time scaring up his usual wealthy individual donors and partisan PAC money without going directly to Republicans. Surprisingly enough, eager donors and needy recipients always have a way of finding each other.
US Patriot
It’s very convenient for liberals to kick Lieberman while he’s down. It must be very satisfying, too, for the left to conduct purges of the ideologically impure elements of the Democratic Party. We all know that men like Stalin enjoyed it, and so do men like George Bush and Tom DeLay. So the liberals are in good company when they engage in this sort of conduct.
I just find myself wondering: what would be the liberals’ reaction if 5,100 CT Democrats from the Lamont camp had voted to nominate a proven Senator instead of a multimillionaire carpetbagger selling a suitcase full of empty promises door to door?
Tim F.
Patriot,
I appreciate what you are saying, although your level of concern about a Democratic primary strikes me as a little strange. Rather than take any of that delicious bait though, I am just curious to know whether you will feel the same way if Lincoln Chaffee loses in RI. Thanks.
US Patriot
It will be equally stupid of the GOP, but at least they will be marginally less stupid in that they won’t gloat about it loudly and proudly for days on end. (Well, let’s just say that if they do, I’d be very surprised.)
Tim F.
If your problem is with the gloating then you’re about the sixteenth person to knock it on this blog, after John and numerous commenters.
So where is the disconnect? If I had to read minds I would guess that you have lumped an extremely wide variety of behaviors under the term ‘gloating.’ For example, some would argue that Lieberman has decided to remain politically significant and therefore worth talking about. It seems like a strange demand to ask people to stop talking about Joe at all until his feelings settle down.
Pb
Remember, folks, gloating over the results of an election is totally inappropriate–I know that Republicans would never do it…
Some Other Brian Guy
Actually Lieberman wasn’t ideologically impure.
He was simply an asshole.
It’s the Republicans who purge the ideologically impure like that guy in Michigan cause he wasn’t conservative enough.
Tsulagi
Par R,
Sorry I missed your comment earlier today. I quickly posted mine responding to this post without reading earlier responses. Had work to do.
But I do thank you for quoting part of my previous day’s comment. You are correct, accurately describing Bush is not very palatable for civil discourse. As a former before-they-lost-their-minds Republican (circa 2000), I stand chastised.
So in the future I will attempt polite code when referring to Bush such as pathetic, laughingly retarded, etc. to spare the sensibilities of those who voted for this pathetic, laughingly retarded joke. I hope that helps. Of course, though, it still means Bush is the biggest piece of shit ever to be propped upright.
Actually when referring to him, I probably could and likely will just say “Bush.” Better. That will suffice. Because history books in the not-too-distant future will note: “G.W. Bush, 43rd president, a pathetic, laughingly retarded joke that was the biggest piece of shit ever propped upright in office. What were they thinking?”
Richard 23
Well put, Tsulagi.
Andrew
Tulkinghorn
Over the last two years Joe has turned off a lot of CT residents. Partly by giving cover to a president who a lot of people wanted to be kept more accountable, partly by neglecting his constituents (he blew off a lot of local party funtions — clearly got too big for his britches), and partly by a number of ill-considered comments and positions that caused activists to really get soured on him and fed up with him.
Lamont did not pick up steam until the Democratic convention this spring, when a lot of town party organizations voted for Lamont simply because he was not Leiberman – Lamont got more than twice the votes Lamont’s staff had expected. Lamont was a protest vote.
Thereafter, Leiberman ran a weak campaign that was increasingly negative and dishonest about Lamont, while accusing lamont of distorting Leiberman’s record. Lamont ran a refreshing, earnest, even fun campaign. It appears people liked him when they got to meet him.
This was no purge — people smelled bullshit and responded appropriately.
But why has this upset the Republicans so much more than the Democratic party establishment?