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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread

Open Thread

by Tim F|  November 6, 200610:57 am| 57 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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Shout, shout, let it all out.

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Reader Interactions

57Comments

  1. 1.

    Pb

    November 6, 2006 at 11:09 am

    These are the things I can do without.

  2. 2.

    Zifnab

    November 6, 2006 at 11:20 am

    Come on, I’m talking to you

  3. 3.

    Paul L.

    November 6, 2006 at 11:39 am

    More fun for the Global Warming Climate Change advocates.
    Gross Untruths

    The bigger the value of lambda, the bigger the temperature increase the UN could predict. Using poor Ludwig Boltzmann’s law, lambda’s true value is just 0.22-0.3C per watt. In 2001, the UN effectively repealed the law, doubling lambda to 0.5C per watt. A recent paper by James Hansen says lambda should be 0.67, 0.75 or 1C: take your pick. Sir John Houghton, who chaired the UN’s scientific assessment working group until recently, tells me it now puts lambda at 0.8C: that’s 3C for a 3.7-watt doubling of airborne CO2. Most of the UN’s computer models have used 1C. Stern implies 1.9C.

  4. 4.

    Perry Como

    November 6, 2006 at 11:48 am

    The bigger the value of lambda, the bigger the temperature increase the UN could predict.

    I’m getting really tired of this anti-phi bias.

  5. 5.

    jcricket

    November 6, 2006 at 11:50 am

    Meanwhile, back in Iraq:

    Q: So, um, how was Baghdad?

    A: It’s an absolute killing field. I don’t think Americans understand the degree of entropy that has taken place in Iraq. The scale of killing in Baghdad is breathtaking, and the south is a free-for-all for militias. You’re there, witnessing the disintegration of an entire society.

  6. 6.

    Teak111

    November 6, 2006 at 12:05 pm

    Snipers in Iraq. Brings back memories of snipers alley in Bosnia/Serbia (you know what I mean). Sniping is very effective in an urban enviornment. We have to pull back (not leave) and begin negociatations. Get the Sunnis leaders and the Shia leaders to Dayton or Camp David and start talking.

    BTW, even if the dems take the House, how does that change the Iraq equation? We still have no decernable plan and Bush seems determined to see if through until he’s out of office.

  7. 7.

    Baby Jane

    November 6, 2006 at 12:13 pm

    We are living through a watershed moment in the story of freedom. Most of the focus now is on this week’s elections — and rightly so. Iraqis Americans will go to the polls to choose rescue a government that will used to be the only beacon of constitutional democracy [until we blew it] in the Arab world. Yet we need to remember that these elections are also a vital part of a broader strategy for protecting projecting onto the American people against the threat of terrorism.

  8. 8.

    The Other Steve

    November 6, 2006 at 12:15 pm

    Paul L. was against science before he was for it.

    BTW, that site is funny. The guy comes off as a good spoof.

  9. 9.

    Zifnab

    November 6, 2006 at 12:22 pm

    Sayeth Deroy Murdock:

    Hypothetically, if Democrats win Congress, don’t expect a mild left turn. Watch the U.S. Capitol spin nearly 180 degrees.

    …and then he does the simple thing, simply comparing the institutional ratings of the current House committee chairs to the ratings of those who would take their place if the Evil Party were to triumph tomorrow.
    It makes for interesting reading… and a final reminder, as if any were needed, that we should never, ever, allow the Evil Party to control the levers of power again.

    Yeah. This totally sounds like a reliable and level-headed source. Thanks Paul L.

  10. 10.

    RSA

    November 6, 2006 at 12:26 pm

    Where would scientists be without journalists to set them straight about the obviously stupid mistakes they’re making?

  11. 11.

    Zifnab

    November 6, 2006 at 12:27 pm

    From Rodger:

    “Whatever genetics make Democrats excel at being hall monitors, black board eraser monkeys, SGA presidents, and any other position where they can tell people what to do, they must be so voluminous as to leave no room for the economic or national defense DNA strands to get a foothold.”

    Read the whole piece, it’s hilarious.

    He also calls the Democrats Commies, because… well, because they are.

    Wow. This is hilarious stuff.

  12. 12.

    ThymeZone

    November 6, 2006 at 12:30 pm

    NEW YORK – Brian Williams has the smile of a man about to unleash a secret weapon.

    Or two. He’s preparing for his first election night as NBC News’ chief anchor Tuesday knowing he’ll be flanked on the broadcast by his predecessor old drinking buddy, Tom Brokaw, and Tim Russert, the Washington veteran popular for his plainspoken intensity during tense nights of vote counting pocketful of prime luxury box seats at Redskins games.

    The great thing is, we can enjoy our lives vicariously through Williams, who now joins the ranks of the insiders’ insiders in the New York City of insiders, Washington DC.

    Williams will be spending Monday practicing phrases like “late Republican surge” and “some Democrats want to cut and run” before a mirror, with a mouthful of dry roasted almonds and a rocks glass filled with 20-year-old scotch in his hand.

  13. 13.

    Perry Como

    November 6, 2006 at 12:36 pm

    with a mouthful of dry roasted almonds and a rocks glass filled with 20-year-old scotch in his hand

    With a mouthful of glass and some 20 year old almonds in his hand.

    hth
    hand

  14. 14.

    RSA

    November 6, 2006 at 12:45 pm

    Perry, you kill me. Cleverest thing I’ve read today.

    On a different front, from a wingnut linked by the Daou Report:

    During the last two months several so-called setbacks failed to depress the evangelical right, one was the Foley incident, then the David Kuo book and interviews followed lately by the Haggard set-up. All of these events, while not excusing the behavior or Foley or Haggard, were specifically designed to discourage evangelicals and get them to give up on Republicans. Yet like a lot of the plans of the left it didn’t work as none of these things will affect evangelical turnout.

    What I find entertaining about this is the level of paranoia it shows. All of these failed leftist plots, as if Foley, Kuo, and Haggard all took their marching orders from some secret Democratic plot to disenchant evangelical Christians.

  15. 15.

    Zifnab

    November 6, 2006 at 12:50 pm

    God works in mysterious ways.

  16. 16.

    ThymeZone

    November 6, 2006 at 12:57 pm

    followed lately by the Haggard set-up.

    Diabolique! All it took was three years of carefully planned blowjobs culminating in the big reveal last week.

    Man, those Dems are the masters of the theatrical, no?

  17. 17.

    jcricket

    November 6, 2006 at 1:00 pm

    God works in mysterious ways.

    Several evangelicals have started to use this line. It appears that by it they mean the exposure of “immorality” in their own midst, right before the election, should cause evangelicals to purge the “false prophets” (esp. gays) from their party and their party apparatus. That they need to vote for even more ideologically “pure” people (i.e. Katherine Harris, Bill Sali, Tom Tancredo).

    The reaction of evangelicals is one reason I don’t think John, Greg, David & Andy are going to be reclaiming the Republican party any time soon. If the popularity and his ability to move legislation of officials like Tom Tancredo are any indication, expect the party to move farther to the right if they lose, and especially if there’s anything that can be spun as a “win” (like not losing by a landslide in the house and “only” losing 3 or 4 seats in the Senate).

  18. 18.

    ThymeZone

    November 6, 2006 at 1:03 pm

    If you will just look at the Bush’s expression in the picture with this story, you will understand everything.

    If that face doesn’t launch you toward the polls tomorrow, then nothing will.

  19. 19.

    jcricket

    November 6, 2006 at 1:04 pm

    Ah yes, here we go

    Other speakers urged the congregation not to look for political conspiracies. If the timing of the disclosures affects the nation, or the election on Tuesday, then that is God’s will, the speakers said

  20. 20.

    ThymeZone

    November 6, 2006 at 1:06 pm

    If the timing of the disclosures affects the nation, or the election on Tuesday, then that is God’s will, the speakers said

    Haggard’s blow jobs on Friday, and Saddam on Sunday.

    God is really enjoying himself a little too much these days. Time for us earthlings to take back control.

  21. 21.

    jcricket

    November 6, 2006 at 1:09 pm

    Here the National Review, the supposedly “sane” Republicans, using the Ted Haggard incident as a reason to oppose gay marriage and claim that gay people like Andrew Sullivan are on the “wrong side of the culture war”

    I hope Ted Haggard does pray for Andrew Sullivan, because it is Sullivan and those on his side of the culture war who do much greater damage to our lives.

    The Republican party shift to the right isn’t over, not by a long shot.

  22. 22.

    RSA

    November 6, 2006 at 1:10 pm

    Bush’s expression in the picture with this story

    Gah! I thought I’d happened on a screen shot from the latest Wes Craven movie.

  23. 23.

    Zifnab

    November 6, 2006 at 1:30 pm

    The Republican party shift to the right isn’t over, not by a long shot.

    Good. This political revolution won’t really be over till tomorrow in ’08.

  24. 24.

    jcricket

    November 6, 2006 at 2:04 pm

    Good. This political revolution won’t really be over till tomorrow in ‘08.

    Assuming the Dems take one or more houses of Congress this election, and then press on with oversight and investigations, I doubt it will even be fixed by ’08. Just the NH phone jamming scandal has taken 4 years to get to this point, and the full list of crimes (connections to WH, Mehlman, Rove, NRC, etc.) hasn’t shown up yet.

    I’m not saying it will be the corruption will be useful as a a political tool forever, but I expect between 6 and 10 years to even moderately completely uncover the corruption and illegality that has occurred during the Bush administration. I expect 6-10 minutes before Republicans try to claim it’s “all in the past” and Democrats are “criminalizing politics”.

  25. 25.

    Punchy

    November 6, 2006 at 2:27 pm

    The reaction of evangelicals is one reason I don’t think John, Greg, David & Andy are going to be reclaiming the Republican party any time soon.

    Many, the Evans get fucked by everyone…pun intended. They elect a fellow whackjob (Bush), THEN get him BOTH HOUSES over 2 elections, and damn near the SC, and they STILL cant get any of their shit passed.

    They vote R, they get gay and/or pedophilic Congressman, preachers, and RNC chairmans. They vote D, and they just get the gay part. Sucks to be a Jesus Freak nowadays…

    And thanks, Tim, for locking in Tears for Fears in my head all day. Jerk.

  26. 26.

    Zifnab

    November 6, 2006 at 2:28 pm

    Just the NH phone jamming scandal has taken 4 years to get to this point, and the full list of crimes (connections to WH, Mehlman, Rove, NRC, etc.) hasn’t shown up yet.

    That raises the age old question, “If enough people commit a crime, is it illegal?” Seriously, how far down the line can you prosecute an entire party for criminal acts? If we threw every corrupt Congressional bum in jail, we’d begin to look frighteningly like facists cracking down on political adversaries. But if you just cherry-pick and example-set, the only message you’ve really projected is “If enough people break the rules, we can’t really do anything about it.”

    I’ll say this, the Republicans may have been all about the authoritarianism, but with a Democractic take-over we’ve laid serious seeds for outright anarchy.

  27. 27.

    Tsulagi

    November 6, 2006 at 2:38 pm

    Bush’s expression in the picture with this story

    If we were still on stay the course in 08 and I was the prez candidate who won that year, first thing I’d do is activate his ass just to see what kind of expression he’d have then. Let him spend the Guard service he skipped as an EOD (bomb disposal) specialist in Iraq. See what kind of happy news he’d generate.

  28. 28.

    jcricket

    November 6, 2006 at 2:41 pm

    That’s some good logic there Zifnab. You’ve pointed out exactly what Republicans have realized: Make the waters run thick with mud long enough, and everyone forgets the waters are supposed to run clear. I’m not in favor of prosecuting every single act of voter suppression or criminal malfeasance at a national level. Let all the state AGs, justice department, FBI, etc. take on most of it. Only use congressional hearings for the most egregious cases that you can tie to party big-wigs.

    What’s more important is making these crimes harder to do effectively (everyone should vote by mail), and the penalties a lot larger. That doesn’t guarantee they go away, but at least stops a lot of them. I’d love to see Democrats have a serious push for increased transparency to make it much harder for them to hide their future malfeasance. Make sure that when Republicans do re-take power, it’s very hard for them to do what they’ve done in the past 12 years. Use the past as leverage for your current/future agenda, but don’t dwell on it.

    Also, did you read this. Glenn Reynold’s “more rubble, less trouble” comment is stunning.

  29. 29.

    jcricket

    November 6, 2006 at 2:44 pm

    their was supposed to be Republican, but honestly, should apply to Democrats too. No one should be afraid of honest oversight, transparency and making dirty political tricks easier to prosecute and harder to pull off.

    Democrats need to seize this to their advantage to help build public awareness of the actual differences between Republicans and Democrats (current Republicans = massive crooks; current Democrats = honest). I think passing these types of oversight and transparency laws would be the start of it.

    It’s not enough to just say “our long national nightmare is over”. In the wake of these scandals, we have to prepare ourselves for the inevitable next time.

    That’s how we take America back long-term.

  30. 30.

    Zifnab

    November 6, 2006 at 2:50 pm

    On the other hand, it’s also true that if democracy can’t work in Iraq, then we should probably adopt a “more rubble, less trouble” approach to other countries in the region that threaten us. If a comparatively wealthy and secular Arab country can’t make it as a democratic republic, then what hope is there for places that are less wealthy, or less secular?

    Wow. Did Glenn Reynolds just propose genocide?

    (Some might consider that statement a bit extreme, but it’s cool, I’ve got a “?” at the end.)

    Seriously. More Rubble, Less Trouble? Because “If a comparatively wealthy and secular Arab country can’t make it” then they’re all probably better off dead, right? I suppose if we’d just firebombed Bagdad outright we wouldn’t be having an insurgency. So that sorta makes sense. In a Glenn Reynolds kind of way.

  31. 31.

    ThymeZone

    November 6, 2006 at 2:51 pm

    Glenn Reynold’s “more rubble, less trouble” comment is stunning.

    Stunning in its simplicity and bluntness, but congruent with the whole Iraq rational from the get-go. To the lunatics, it has always been about sending messages, and being “proactive.”

    Did we think that the people who dreamed up Shock and Awe for our prime time viewing pleasure didn’t have essentially a “Mo rubble” view of the world? Did we imagine that these people were being driven by a genteel paradigm?

    It’s in keeping with every action and policy of this administration since 911, an event which just gave them an excuse to act out the sociopathic agenda that they had from day One.

    You don’t really think that Dick Cheney was just a laid back guy prior to 911, do you?

  32. 32.

    ThymeZone

    November 6, 2006 at 2:52 pm

    What’s the difference between “Mo rubble” and “Bring it On?”

    Just style.

  33. 33.

    jcricket

    November 6, 2006 at 3:02 pm

    Wow. Did Glenn Reynolds just propose genocide?

    To be fair, this is not new. Does anyone remember the Republicans proposing we operate under “Hama Rules” back in the early days of the insurgency?

    Favorable recommendations for genocide, torture, internment camps, forced conversions, indefinite imprisonment of anyone suspected of terrorism (including Americans), and mass prosecution of Americans (especially journalists) for treason. These are the “SOPs” for today’s Republicans, from their elected officials, to their party leadership, to the professional pundit class and down into the blogs. And it’s getting worse, not better.

  34. 34.

    jcricket

    November 6, 2006 at 3:06 pm

    What’s the difference between “Mo rubble” and “Bring it On?”

    Just style.

    I actually think the difference in tense (one is active, one is passive) is mildly important. One says “please attack us, and then we’ll kill you”, the other says “we should pro actively destroy large populations of ‘others’ because they’d be less trouble that way”.

    Still part of the same continuum of arrogant, childish and inflammatory rhetoric from the right, but slightly different in meaning.

    Perhaps we can say the threat level of “Bring it on” is “yellow”, “mo rubble” is “Deep Orange” while “Hama Rules” and “cut off their heads and convert them to christianity” is a red.

  35. 35.

    Pb

    November 6, 2006 at 3:06 pm

    Bah. They’ve been rephrasing “Kill ’em all and let God sort it out” for years. One of the classics was Nuke Mecca, always popular with the glass parking lot crowd. The thing is, unlike “Nuke The Moon”, or “Pave The Whales”, I think they’re serious about this bit of idiocy…

  36. 36.

    Punchy

    November 6, 2006 at 3:11 pm

    Glenn Reynold’s “more rubble, less trouble” comment

    Sounds like some fly Ice Cube lyric. Word. Glennnnn channeling NWA here?

  37. 37.

    Krista

    November 6, 2006 at 3:12 pm

    On the other hand, it’s also true that if democracy can’t work in Iraq, then we should probably adopt a “more rubble, less trouble” approach to other countries in the region that threaten us. If a comparatively wealthy and secular Arab country can’t make it as a democratic republic, then what hope is there for places that are less wealthy, or less secular?

    I don’t even know what to say to this. As spoof, it would have been brilliant. But this lunatic appears to be serious.

  38. 38.

    ThymeZone

    November 6, 2006 at 3:23 pm

    Perhaps we can say the threat level of “Bring it on” is “yellow”, “mo rubble” is “Deep Orange” while “Hama Rules” and “cut off their heads and convert them to christianity” is a red.

    I like it, it’s an Idiotic Policy Threat Level Color Code.

    The government could post it on a website for foreign countries to monitor.

    Yellow = Bring It On
    Orange = Mo’ Rubble
    Red = Bombing Raid Imminent

  39. 39.

    jcricket

    November 6, 2006 at 3:24 pm

    Speaking of hearts and minds. How did I miss that one?

  40. 40.

    RSA

    November 6, 2006 at 3:25 pm

    On the other hand, it’s also true that if democracy can’t work in Iraq, then we should probably adopt a “more rubble, less trouble” approach to other countries in the region that threaten us.

    Substitute “Western influence cannot be removed from the Middle East by peaceful means” for the bolded phrase above, and you get something that sounds a lot like UBL’s sentiments pre-9/11. Weird. Of course, like torture, it’s different when we do it.

  41. 41.

    ThymeZone

    November 6, 2006 at 3:27 pm

    Flashing Red = Haggard Blow Job, Nuke Attack on Brown Hordes

  42. 42.

    ThymeZone

    November 6, 2006 at 3:29 pm

    Flashing Red With Siren = Cheney Angry — Islam Delenda Est

  43. 43.

    jcricket

    November 6, 2006 at 3:32 pm

    Flashing Red with Flames Shooting out the top = Democrats elected, Terrorists Win, Terrorists Win.

  44. 44.

    jcricket

    November 6, 2006 at 3:33 pm

    although the “flames shooting out the top” could just as easily refer to the revelation that nearly all the top Republican homophobes are themselves gay :-)

  45. 45.

    ThymeZone

    November 6, 2006 at 3:36 pm

    Democrats elected, Terrorists Win, Terrorists Win.

    I think this will work best if narrated by the voice of Harry Caray.

    Terrorists win! Terrorists win!

  46. 46.

    ThymeZone

    November 6, 2006 at 3:42 pm

    nearly all the top Republican homophobes are themselves gay

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  47. 47.

    fwiffo

    November 6, 2006 at 3:43 pm

    Several evangelicals have started to use this line. It appears that by it they mean the exposure of “immorality” in their own midst, right before the election, should cause evangelicals to purge the “false prophets” (esp. gays) from their party and their party apparatus. That they need to vote for even more ideologically “pure” people (i.e. Katherine Harris, Bill Sali, Tom Tancredo).

    Actually, this is standard behavior among True Believers of all stripes. For example, doomsday cults typically become stronger after a failed prediction about the end of the world (assuming mass suicide was not involved.) Sure, they initially shed a few of their less ardent members, but the remainder become all the more convinced about the correctness of their beliefs. They beef up their persecution complex and work that much harder on evangelism. Each failure of their beliefs only further hardens their resolve.

  48. 48.

    jcricket

    November 6, 2006 at 3:47 pm

    (assuming mass suicide was not involved.) Sure, they initially shed a few of their less ardent members, but the remainder become all the more convinced about the correctness of their beliefs.

    Is that an example of the “adverse selection” people often reference in the the health care debate? :-)

    Insert Nietzsche reference about abysses and what-not here.

    Oh, and I should add, nearly all the “bottom” Republican homophobes are gay too :-0

  49. 49.

    Zifnab

    November 6, 2006 at 3:50 pm

    For example, doomsday cults typically become stronger after a failed prediction about the end of the world (assuming mass suicide was not involved.)
    …
    Each failure of their beliefs only further hardens their resolve.

    Each failure certainly culls the herd. But when you’re dealing in a democracy, you want a big tent full of sort-believers, not a pocket of die-hards. Again, I don’t see this as a bad thing at all. Each “purification” will excise more and more of the base. It’s like watching a turd dry in the sun. Each hour sucks out more and more moisture, making it smaller and harder until it finally just cracks into dust and scatters.

  50. 50.

    ThymeZone

    November 6, 2006 at 3:53 pm

    Oh, and I should add, nearly all the “bottom” Republican homophobes are gay too

    It’s giving “swing voter” a whole new cachet.

    Sorry, I meant “schwing voter.”

  51. 51.

    fwiffo

    November 6, 2006 at 3:53 pm

    ThymeZone:

    Flashing Red With Siren = Cheney Angry—Islam Delenda Est

    Ann Coulter:

    We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren’t punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians.

  52. 52.

    The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me

    November 6, 2006 at 6:48 pm

    “The great nations have always acted like gangsters, and the small nations like prostitutes.” — Stanley Kubrick

    Discuss. Or not. Sorry. I just really, really like that quote.

  53. 53.

    Tulkinghorn

    November 6, 2006 at 9:27 pm

    They beef up their persecution complex and work that much harder on evangelism. Each failure of their beliefs only further hardens their resolve.

    As one Evangelical Christian put it to me, evidence of the Devil is proof of the devil’s opposite, That Jesus is God. It is one of those nice fundamentalist formulations that tie several illogical steps into a circulating connubium of bad thinking.

  54. 54.

    The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me

    November 6, 2006 at 10:01 pm

    As one Evangelical Christian put it to me, evidence of the Devil is proof of the devil’s opposite, That Jesus is God. It is one of those nice fundamentalist formulations that tie several illogical steps into a circulating connubium of bad thinking.

    I like this kind of thinking. Let me apply it to another subject: Evidence of pie is proof of pie’s opposite, an anti-pie.

    I like pie. I just felt like sharing that with you.

  55. 55.

    jcricket

    November 7, 2006 at 1:30 am

    How long after the election until we get audio or video proof that Charlie Crist is another closets self-hating gay, like Haggard?

    Seriously, they’ve always been an oddity to me, but how long until the Log Cabin Republicans just disband as they realize their party hates them passionately – possibly even more then they hate Democrats. Look at Andrew Sullivan’s blog recently and you realize Republicans haven’t even begun to explore the depths of their hatred for gays. There’s nothing more pressing than taking every opportunity to demonize gays and remove their legal protections.

    Republican – just another party on the wrong side of history.

  56. 56.

    jcricket

    November 7, 2006 at 1:33 am

    I like this kind of thinking. Let me apply it to another subject: Evidence of pie is proof of pie’s opposite, an anti-pie.

    Let’s try this:
    Mom, Dad, don’t touch that. It’s pie.

    But I don’t want to be a pie, I don’t like homos

    Yes, works for me.

  57. 57.

    skip

    November 7, 2006 at 4:53 pm

    Am I alone in wanting a piece of George Allen, Mr. Loom and Bully?
    Faux-cowboy, racial numbskull, unJew, dork.

    He may yet scrape by in this election but he is sure as hell dead as a WH candidate. That is a comfort.

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