Pat Buchanan and Neo Nick Gillespie from Reason are on Tucker, and they highlighted a quote from this Karl Rove WSJ piece:
Mr. McCain can now question Mr. Obama’s promise to change Washington by working across party lines. Mr. Obama hasn’t worked across party lines since coming to town. Was he a member of the “Gang of 14” that tried to find common ground between the parties on judicial nominations? Was Mr. Obama part of the bipartisan leadership that tackled other thorny issues like energy, immigration or terrorist surveillance legislation? No. Mr. Obama has been one of the most dependably partisan votes in the Senate.
Under Karl Rove’s advice, President Bush became someone who had the complete and total support of the entire country in a time of crisis, and squandered it to the point that he was barely re-elected and now sits at a permanent 30-35% in the polls. Some genius. It is time to start calling this asshole’s bluffs, and long past time to start recognizing what he is- the mastermind of the worst administration of my lifetime. And I was alive during Carter.
Consider this an open thread.
BFR
I’m old enough to remember that everyone hated Carter, but not old enough to really remember much about why he was so despised. What was it about his administration that generated so much loathing?
It seems like he was one of the more intelligent folks to occupy the office, was he just totally incapable of getting anyone to buy into anything he planned?
Paddy
Last time I checked, Dick Lugar & Barack are BFF’s. Doesn’t that count?
Bubblegum Tate
You mean that same Gang of 14 that you and your cronies said was made up of 7 traitorous turncoats and 7 liberal commie atheists, all of whom hated the Constitution? Cool, just checking.
serge
You were watching Tucker? I’m so sorry, man.
4tehlulz
Well, when the next ratings come out, we can now identify the one person who watched Tucker.
TomMil
It’s off topic even tho’ this is an open thread but I am encouraged that so many progressives have taken the attitude of “it’s not the sex” with the “Isemangate” thing that they have. That crap is for the phony moralist rightwingers. The concerns about the propriety of McCain’s conduct regarding the lobbies is perfect but who cares if he was tempted by the flesh. I rarely post, but I needed to say how happy I am to see that the idea of turnabout is fair play hasn’t consumed us all.
Jim
Rove is a flaming idiot (just like his most famous client). Obama co-sponsored a bill regarding earmarks with Tom Coburn (yes, the world famous wingnut), and has worked with Richard Lugar. John is right on about Rove being terribly over-rated. We’ll never know for sure, but without 9-11 I think it is very likely Bush would have repeated his father’s performance as a one-term President. Not to mention the fact that Rove poisoned an already toxic political system even more.
Wilfred
Food for thought:
Seems a bit pathetic,no?
Pb
Rove lies, Murdoch prints–film at 11!
demkat620
It is completely amusing watching the fools try to lay the groundwork for a 2004 style campaign. That ain’t gonna work. Listening to these asshats crow about how this NYT story helps McCain in particular and Conservatives in general is ridiculous as well. John McCain just went from maverick to just another sleazy politician. The public has had its fill of the Republican martyr act.
Just pop some more popcorn and relax. This year is going to be highly entertaining as these clowns start to figure out that not everything is good for conservatives.
Democrats ought to take our lovely and talented host’s advice: The louder they squeal, the harder you hit.
Davis X. Machina
Not to mention the fact that Rove poisoned an already toxic political system even more.
Not a bug, but a… etc.
Dennis - SGMM
I was at the end of my twenties when Carter took office. There were four main reasons that he was excoriated: the Arab oil embargo, the capture of the US embassy personnel in Iran (Including the failed rescue attempt that followed), the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and a domestic economy mired in stagflation.
I’m not sure how much any president could have done about any of those problems however, in those bygone days the president was held responsible for any bad shit that happened to the country. We’ve moved from those benighted times to “mistakes were made”.
Although it was instructive (Anyone else here ever see a fistfight over gasoline?) and prophetic to see what happened when the oil ran out no subsequent administration has done anything significant about energy independence.
SamFromUtah
So did Rove ever manage to find a publisher to advance him $3,000,000 for his shitpile of a book? Or is he doing stuff like this WSJ gig to keep the wolves from the door?
And where does Rove get off hand-wringing about partisanship anyway?
JGabriel
Ok, *this* hurts Hillary:
Jesus H. Fucking Christ. Gennifer Flowers?
The last thing Clinton needs is Flowers – a reminder of Bill’s philandering past – poking her nose into the whole McCain business.
Ah well, I suppose it was inevitable. I wonder if someone put Flowers up to it, or if she just couldn’t resist the spotlight.
SamFromUtah
Anyone else here ever see a fistfight over gasoline?
Not quite, but I saw some heated yelling about it, remember people finding that their tanks had been siphoned during the night, and I remember that there were getting to be rules of etiquette and insult revolving around gas lines (e.g. if someone is enough of a jerk at you, you buy a locking gas cap, put it on their car, and walk off with the key).
Another way in which I expect there to be a 70s flashback soon, besides the goofy hair and bell-bottoms which have already been (re)done.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Why does anyone give Hitler more attention than he deserved?
Because he seriously affected history, and we have to learn from it to keep it from happening again.
/OK, now I’ll turn myself in for blatant Godwinning. Book me, Lou.
Jay B.
That ain’t gonna work. Listening to these asshats crow about how this NYT story helps McCain in particular and Conservatives in general is ridiculous as well. John McCain just went from maverick to just another sleazy politician.
Fucking amen.
Obama would crush McCain in a general and Clinton would probably get just enough states to win. And that was before the old man had to go on teevee with his pill-popping trophy heiress to deny claims that his advisers were worried about bimbo eruptions, he was screwing around AND was screwing around with a lobbyist.
The GOP is terminal. In their worst moments (and it’s hard to pick just one), the Democrats always had something positive to remind the voters (Social Security, Head Start, competent governance, shit, even the pork they brought back to the people, etc.), even when they looked pathetic, weak and in disarray — the GOP currently has NOTHING. Zero.
McCain, the one Republican some independents liked (along with, maybe, Hagel), has been utterly exposed.
All of Rove’s “successes” will point to one thing: how he killed the GOP for generations (but not without taking New Orleans, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Constitution, the military and the economy with them first).
JGabriel
BFR:
Gas & Oil prices. And a failed attempt to rescue the Iranian hostages, though to be fair, that really wasn’t his fault. Also, Carter was unable to negotiate a return for the hostages, because the Reagan campaign went behind his back to separately negotiate for the Iranians to keep the hostages until Reagan was elected.
SamFromUtah
the GOP currently has NOTHING. Zero.
I agree with you, Jay B., except that you’re looking at it from a much more rational and less “gut” point of view than the GOP dead-enders do. They’re not going to try to point to concrete policy achievements or anything, they’ll just say e.g. “Reagan/Bush/whoever made me proud to be an American.” and leave it at that.
And that is something of an accomplishment for the GOP – making people identify with them against their own interest to the point where they’ll get agitated and start screaming “traitor” if you make them think about it too hard.
Pb
The White House Chief of Staff?
Incidentally, while we’re on the topic of nefarious Presidential spin-meisters who advise on policy for political purposes, would it surprise anyone to learn that Dick Morris is the reason why Mark Penn is where he is today:
Er, yeah, no thanks.
AkaDad
Since Obama is the most Liberal Senator, why is he securing loose nukes? I thought Liberals didn’t want to protect the country? I’m confused.
Dennis - SGMM
It wasn’t the philandering that finally sealed my contempt for Clinton. Hell, there were rumors about Eisenhower and his WWII WAC driver. It was the fact that he was stupid enough to get publicly caught. He should have “Poor Impulse Control” tattooed across his forehead.
And yes, I read Neal Stephenson’s “Snow Crash.”
Chris
I think what’s really something is how Rove’s advice could blow up in McCain’s face if taken.
As Hilzoy noted in a post way back in 2006 before Obama was even announced “His [Obama’s] legislation is often proposed with Republican co-sponsorship, which brings me to another point: he is bipartisan in a good way.”
I can see this feeding into the “McCain compromises principles” narrative which is off to a running start with his vote against the torture bill, and his motion to technically defraud tax payers by getting a loan he would pay off with public financed money only if he lost New Hampshire and already planned to leave the race.
And Obama cosponsered immigration reform WITH McCain, a bill McCain is no longer allowed to voice support for in his quest for the Rebublican nomination.
chopper
shit, she isn’t best prepared to be the democratic nominee on day 50, much less “the commander in chief on day one.”
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I was going to say someone that doesn’t cry under pressure, but I guess she could hire one to cover that base for her.
jnfr
I tried to read that Rover column today, but could only roll my eyes and mutter “What the fuck?” and wander off to something else.
Slipping back in time, I did once have my gas tank siphoned. That was before locking gas caps were standard. You could buy them in the auto parts stores, though, which I did after that.
caleb
Article about MCCain today…..
“In late 1999, McCain wrote two letters to the FCC urging a vote on the sale to Paxson of a Pittsburgh television station. The sale had been highly contentious in Pittsburgh and involved a multipronged lobbying effort among the parties to the deal.
…
McCain has argued that the letters merely urged a decision and did not call for action on Paxson’s behalf. This morning, he said he wrote the letters because the issue had languished before the commission for more than twice the usual amount of time.”
Where have we heard this type of defense before?
“In retrospect, I regret making that call and I apologize,” Domenici said. “However, at no time in that conversation or any other conversation with Mr. Iglesias did I ever tell him what course of action I thought he should take on any legal matter. I have never pressured him nor threatened him in any way.”
HMMMMMMMMMM.
That is one popular defense that republicans use .
GSD
As I have said elswhere, the 19% Militia is rallying the troops and grabbing their keyboards to beat back the liberal fascsists at the NYTimes.
To arms! On Coulter and Limbaugh, on Kristol and Snow.
They don’t realize that 70% of the nation thinks they are pathetic boobs.
They are close to creating themselves out of their own reality.
Huzzah.
-GSD
Pug
President Bush became someone who had the complete and total support of the entire country in a time of crisis, and squandered it to the point that he was barely re-elected and now sits at a permanent 30-35% in the polls.
Actually, I think the last poll showed Bush with a 19% approval rating. The bad economy was believed to be dragging him down from the 32% heights he had achieved earlier.
This has to be one of the lowest ever recorded but it didn’t seem like anybody made much of a big deal about it. I may be confused because this is a stunningly low number and it should have been a big deal.
lone wolf
Bush/Cheney just blasted through the floor.
19% approval. Underwater even with the Kool Aid crowd (45% approval among Republicans, 50% disapproval).
Carter celebrated a few months back. Even Nixon was only down to 23% on the day he resigned in disgrace.
Single digits becomes the new stretch goal. Just over the horizon. He CAN do it.
Splitting Image
“I was at the end of my twenties when Carter took office. There were four main reasons that he was excoriated: the Arab oil embargo, the capture of the US embassy personnel in Iran (Including the failed rescue attempt that followed), the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and a domestic economy mired in stagflation.
I’m not sure how much any president could have done about any of those problems however, in those bygone days the president was held responsible for any bad shit that happened to the country. We’ve moved from those benighted times to “mistakes were made”.”
Pretty much sums it up. Although wasn’t the oil embargo more like ’73-74? I remember it as a response to the 1973 war in the middle east.
Regardless, Carter’s problem was that he believed it was the administration’s responsibility to try to fix problems as they arose, and public opinion rose against him when he proved incapable of doing so.
Since then, governance has become more and more a matter of conveying the impression that every bad thing is Somebody Else’s Fault, and that the administration shouldn’t be held responsible for anything but the tax cuts that it doles out.
I remember thinking back during the Gulf War that Carter might have been much more effective if he had run for President in 1988 instead of 1976, having acquired a good deal more experience and political capital in the meantime. By then he was an important figure in peace talks and a respected front man for Habitat for Humanity. The issue of energy dependency had also become much more well known.
As an aside, Carter is Exhibit A for the theory that the “religious right” doesn’t have a Christian bone in its collective body. They speak about “hating the sin and loving the sinner”, but keep sliming Jimmy Carter as a person instead of his actual mistakes. At this point they’ve been doing it non-stop for nearly 30 years. Give it a rest already.
Dennis - SGMM
It couldn’t be that the press, having had their silver tongues all the way up Bush’s ass for several years would rather, like his party, that we forget the man.
Fledermaus
This is just priceless.
What a bunch of assclowns.
jake
O noes! The loathesomest political adviser evar doesn’t like the MUP! Now all of those people who admire KthArl Rove and were planning to vote for Obama will turn to McCain.
Jesus Keeerist. Obama should send Rover a dozen roses and a Thank You note every time he tries to trash him. Hell, he ought to make a commercial. Just show a full-screen close up of Rove’s face with the voice over: “Karl Rove doesn’t think Mr. Obama should be the next president.”
The MUP will gallop to victory.
Justin Slotman
Here’s a puzzler for you: how old would you have to be for Bush to not be the worst president of your lifetime? 76, so you catch the tail end of the Hoover administration?
Pb
History will judge. It could be over 200, if you go back to the last King George…
DrDave
Maybe Rove should ask Dick Lugar about Obama’s ability to work with his Republican colleagues.
But then, who gives a fuck what Karl Rove thinks?
JGabriel
Justin Slotman:
Answer: -11 Months. In other, you haven’t been born yet.
Or, alternately, you’d have to have been dead for more than 7 years.
There’s no president who was worse than Bush, so even if you were 250 years old, Bush would still be the worst president of your lifetime.
.
mikefromtexas
Carter’s mandated mileage standards got him a lot of heat. I can remember gas lines. Never saw any violence myself, but I did work with a woman whose son was shot to death in a gas line dispute in Houston. It could get very frustrating in line, waiting your turn, only to have the station run out of gas when you were 2 cars from the pump.
Anne Laurie
Carter was a figure out of a classic tragedy — the leader a generation ahead of his time. Americans elected him during a brief spasm of self-disgust post-Watergate and mid-Ford-stagflation. In his preordained role as the Tragic Hero, President Carter made the fatal mistake of telling Americans we were reaching the limits of adolescent self-indulgence, and that as intelligent grown-ups we’d have to start making hard choices and working full-time for what we needed, not just slacking our temp gigs for whatever flashy crap we figured would make our nitwit buddies drool in envy.
Of course, the hardcore kleptocracy of Nixon-era Republicans who’d temporarily slithered out of the spotlight after Ford aborted the Watergate criminal investigations took this as their golden opportunity to assure the Great American Voter (“You know — morons!”) that Jimmy was unfairly harshing our mellow because he was too old and wimpy. Over the ensuing thirty years, we’ve prolonged an illusionary Morning in America by stealing from our parents, our fellows, our kids, and our neighbors as we fenced 200 years of careful political stewardship to our “dealers” in fossil fuels and imaginary money. Now we’re squatting in a shithole that used to be the nicest house on the global block, anemic and diseased, burning the partitions for heat because we’ve sold off the furniture, searching futilely for one last unscarred vein we could inject if only our increasingly unfriendly global “partners” would extend us a little more credit…
And because sometimes Reality understands the storytelling arc, Boring Jimmy has lived long enough to remind all the ingrates and mockers that he told us so. Of course, being the kind of Good Christian who actually tries to live by the Christian rulebook, he’s too polite to gloat in public, but I’m sure he’s had a few moments of top-quality schadenfreude in the past seven years!
myiq2xu
Rove got his start working under Donald Segretti as one of Nixon’s ratfuckers. With Lee Atwater as his sidekick, they stole their first election by getting Rove “elected” national chairman of the College Republicans.
Rove may not know shit about governing but there is no one better at dirty politics.
Well, perhaps “better” isn’t the right word.
Rove would slime Jeebus to win an election.
limbaugh's pilonidal cyst
FFS, she can’t even pick a competent campaign staff, and she wants us to trust her to deal with some dire crisis at 3 in the morning? Based on what I’ve seen so far I’d rather have Obama answering that phone call.
And apropos of absolutely nothing at all, where’s Katherine Harris been since 11/06? I’da thunk F**ked Newz would have been featuring her expert commentary this election season. Guess things didn’t work out between she and Sean, and here she went and had that new rack installed just for him….
NonyNony
Pug –
This has to be one of the lowest ever recorded but it didn’t seem like anybody made much of a big deal about it. I may be confused because this is a stunningly low number and it should have been a big deal.
I saw that survey – it was an ARG (American Research Group) survey. Their methodology was flawed – I sincerely doubt that Bush’s approval rating has dropped below the 30% range.
What the ARG survey did was “prime the pump” – they asked respondents a bunch of questions about how they felt about the national economy, their own household finances, and Bush’s handling of the economy. Then they asked about their overall approval of Bush’s job performance. That’s a great way to make the case for an argument, but a terrible way to conduct a survey – you’re biasing your results in ways that make it impossible to compare to other surveys. I will not be surprised if the next survey that comes along has Bush right back up at the 30% approval level.
Anne Laurie –
And because sometimes Reality understands the storytelling arc, Boring Jimmy has lived long enough to remind all the ingrates and mockers that he told us so. Of course, being the kind of Good Christian who actually tries to live by the Christian rulebook, he’s too polite to gloat in public, but I’m sure he’s had a few moments of top-quality schadenfreude in the past seven years!
Did you read this over at the Onion the other week. I know Carter would be too polite to put it that way, but sometimes I do wonder if that’s what he’s thinking while we flail around.
When I think of Carter (and also Gore), I think of this quote from ex-Sanitation Commissioner Ray Patterson’s speech to the people of Springfield when they found out that they’d elected a corrupt incompetent to the office of Sanitation Commissioner:
That’s the speech I always hoped Gore would give to the people who were begging him to enter the race a few months ago. But, like Carter, he’s probably too polite to do it.
limbaugh's pilonidal cyst
Actually, Jimmy made a few observations on the current political scene just recently….
limbaugh's pilonidal cyst
*Makes note to self to learn to type faster*
Incertus (Brian)
At least Carter had problems because he was trying to clean up the shitpiles everyone else had left him. Bush’s shitpiles are all of his own making.
Phoenician in a time of Romans
“I don’t know. But I’d like the person making the decisions the next morning to be sleeping during their nights rather than answering phones…”
Anne Laurie
NonyNony, LPC: I did indeed see that Onion piece, and I hope it gave Jimmy a few good belly-laughs.
Yeah, that’s been the damn depressing pattern for several generations now: Repubs in office fvck up everything they touch; a Dem is elected to clean up the huge steaming wreckage; next election, Repubs run on a platform that Dems are tiresome GooGoos who always end up
holding the bagbeing in charge when the bills come due and the health inspectors crack down. The current batch of Repub kleptocrats have been so “successful”, though, that I’m hoping we’re lucky enough to be looking at another FDR-scale shift. Because it’s that, or pray for a really high-morbidity pandemic.Birdzilla
Obama will be no different then any of the others that have ocupied the whitehouse these last few years he will just return to buisness as usial
Micheline
Did any one read the latest column by Paul Krugman where he compares Obama to Carter but without naming names? He also said that this new Jimmy Carter’s term will usher in the hard right. I mean I have heard this comparison before but is it really a fair thing to say?
TenguPhule
If business as usual means abusing the fuck out of the opposition…then yes, by all means.
You’re long overdue for a good reaming by stormtroopers.
Dave L
Compare the Rove piece to David Brooks in the NY Times two days earlier – now, THAT’S plagiarism.
These guys don’t even bother to hide the fact that they’re all working from the same marching orders.
Rudi
The Iranian leadership and mullahs hated Carter for Camp David and his deals with Israel. Iran wouldn’t talk or negotiate with Carter because of Camp David.
There also was the Redneck factor, the elites in Washingtondidn’t like Carters Georgia advisers. The elite leadership at the tome were Democrats. Clenis alos ran into the same problem during the early years of his administration.
Bob S.
This is by far the worst American administration of my lifetime,and I was alive for Reagan AND Nixon.
We need to look abroad to find presidents bad enough to compete with Bush,to the Phillipines and Marcos,to Chile and Pinochet,to Uganda and Idi Amin….
Jay C
Well, it IS the Wall St Journal: any reportage from them having even the remotest thing to do with politics is immediately suspect – so I’m not sure ol’ Karl’s pronouncements are going to be good for more than a sneer/snark/derisive chuckle from anyone not already a hardcore 19-percenter. By this point, I think that the Democrats in general (and not just their blog-reading “base”) have come to figure out that in Rove-speak “bipartisanship” means nothing other than “do what Republicans want” – and that tired old dog ain’t gonna hunt much longer. Obama maybe being “more partisan”? For most Democrats, that’s one of his BIG positives.
les
Well said, Anne Laurie. This is a problem the MUP could have as well. Carter thought that he could explain problems to Americans, show them how they contributed to the problems, show them how they could contribute to the solutions, ask them to help–AND THEY WOULD FUCKING DO IT!!! Instead, they bought the shiny new ray-gun as soon as it was available, and still mock Carter. Americans wouldn’t know enlightened self interest if it bit them in the ass, especially if it cut into their play time.
ThirdGorchBro
I would have to give James Buchanan, the man who twiddled his thumbs while a big chunk of the South seceded, the nod as Worst President Ever. But Bush is probably second-worst, or at least in the bottom five.
Kynn
Why the gratuitous Carter-bash, John? Jimmy Carter was a fine president, and wasn’t awful like all the Republican presidents after him.
Kynn
PS: John, were you really not alive during the Nixon administration? You’re younger than I thought, or is Tricky Dick still one of your GOP heroes?