This would happen:
Hours before the polls closed Tuesday in the final two Democratic presidential primaries, the Republican National Committee began circulating a video of Hillary Clinton questioning Barack Obama’s qualifications to be commander-in-chief, and acknowledging John McCain has this important presidential credential.
***“And I think it is imperative that each of us be able to demonstrate we can cross the commander-in-chief threshold. And I believe I have done that. Certainly, Senator McCain has done that. And you will have to ask Senator Obama with respect to his candidacy.”
The RNC posted the video on YouTube early Tuesday afternoon, just as Obama was on the verge of locking up the Democratic nomination and speculation heated up about Clinton being his running mate.
Tonight, South Dakota and Montana Democrats hold the final two contests of the primary season. Obama is expected to secure the support of enough delegates to claim the party’s presidential nomination as early as tonight, and but no later than the end of this week.
An RNC official tells CNN to expect to see more of Republicans highlighting Clinton’s critical comments of Obama as the campaign now turns to the general election phase.
“We will use it repeatedly,” the official said.
Thanks, Hillary!
But then again, she doesn’t care. This is all about her.
empty
Well, when you feel like being rational go read this.
Chris Johnson
If she degrades herself enough in abject slavering after power, it might be like Karl Rove saying “That Obama, he’s just no good!”
Confucian wisdom from the Analects (not fortune cookies)
It’s like that. Clinton’s behavior has really taken away from her ability to influence things in that direct way- if she becomes a joke, her influence gets reversed.
scarshapedstar
What the fuck ever. If people are so goddamn stupid as to vote for four more years of creationists teaching science, officially mandated torture, bribery as the order of the day, senseless murder as responsibility, and mendacity uber alles, because of this…
…it is not Hillary’s fucking fault. Give me a break. If people want to continue their trip to Hell then they know what they’re doing.
Mustard is Evil
Late to the party, and I apologize for going off-topic, but not having seen Fleury in net last night, I can’t compare, but Mr. Cole should get his hands on some footage of old Flyer Ron Hextall between the pipes. Oh my!
One Cup series in particular, the Edmonton Oilers rolled, don’t think it was a sweep, but it should’ve been but for Hextall. Gretzky & Co. peppered him for 4-6 games. That der were some netmindin’!
(Shakes an angry fist at imaginary young whippersnappers on an imaginary lawn.)
Rex
Unity ticket! McCain/Clinton ’08. Lieberman at SecDef.
Steve V
Thanks for bringing this up John — this is a wonderful example of why she HAS to be the pick for VP.
— Lanny Davis
TenguPhule
If the stupid git wants to grease the ropes on the handbasket to hell, fuck her too.
John Cole
I thought I was being rational when I repeatedly said she shouldn’t be saying shit like this, that it would be used against Obama in the fall, and folks like you told me I had CDS.
And thanks for sending me to read some crap that cites Corrente- because they are the height of rational. Got some links to Riverdaughter you need me to read, too?
Now, let me ask you if you are going to be rational. Obama won. Clinton lost. Are you going to support Obama, and pressure Clinton to stop knee-capping him?
TenguPhule
I want to see McCain tied as closely as possible to Hillary in the general.
It’s time to harness the Rightwing’s batshit insanity and put it to good use for a change.
Let their Champion be displayed holding hands and sharing air kisses with the woman they despise the most.
Please, let the anchor of the Senator from New York crush Fuckstain’s skull.
John Cole
Not to mention, I try to be rational with the increasingly irrational Hilary. Check my posts earlier in the day.
Then she goes out on stage in her bunker in NY several floors below ground and shits all over the place instead of doing the right thing and trying to ramp down her supporters. It was fun watching them all stand there while she tried to say nice things about Obama, and even funnier while they were chanting “DENVER, DENVER.”
Don’t try to tell me I am the problem here, empty. Just don’t.
passerby
Let’s review the presidential lineage of the last few decades:
Bush Sr.-Clinton-Clinton-Bush Jr.-Bush Jr.-Hillary?-Hillary?
They may call themselves Republicans or Democrats but, these wolves all run in the same, self-serving pack.
McCain is their butt boy.
They are all working together to serve the interests of very powerful, moneyed friends.
T
Grover StL
concur, the message is authentic.
Gemina13
Someone should have reminded Hillary that when you toss free bullets to your enemies, you shouldn’t be shocked when they start shooting your friends and allies.
Joe Max
Meh. Clips of Clinton will be old news by September. The RNC is running them now because they have an extremely limited shelf-life. Once she’s out of the spotlight and her followers are content enough to support Obama, that stuff will have no traction at all. Let the RNC waste it’s limited money on clips featuring Hillary. Don’t worry about it.
Jess
It didn’t work the first time, so why should it work the second time around? McCain is going to look sooo maverick-y borrowing HRC’s talking points.
JC
Ideally, Hillary Clinton IS offered the VP slot.
I mean that comment, strictly from the idealism of respecting democratic voters – of which 50% minus some infinitesimal fraction of a percent, clearly WANT Hillary Clinton.
That is the default position, I would think.
Yes, I know there are all these arguments for not doing so – how she is behaving, being first and foremost – but it really should be the default position.
Rick Taylor
If nothing else, this ought to make it crystal clear why she shouldn’t be VP. Can you imagine her in the VP debates? “Mrs. Clinton, you have said that McCain has certainly passed the commander in chief threshold, that you have. . .”
hee haw mcjesus
God, how much snot am I going to have to drink to praise Hillary if it helps keep a Republican in there? Even John Fucking McCain? I can always joke I’m voting for Bob Barr or Cowboy the Eagle, but at the end of the day, their votes, quotes & positions did fuck up the military something good. Would an experienced Commander-in-Chief do that?
God, please pick Lieberman. Please pick Lieberman.
TenguPhule
The same could be said of people who wanted Bush.
And look how that turned out.
PaulW
Every time the RNC shows that video of Hillary questioning Barack’s skills, all Barack will have to do is show that picture of McCain hugging Bush and simply note “Four More Years of Bush”. Obama will win every state but Arizona.
SmilingPolitely
A huge example why Clinton being Obama’s VP is a non-starter.
Even if Obama was inclined to have her as his VP, it’s impossible for him to do it without her being a noose around his neck. Hillary’s scorched-earth campaign assured that.
TenguPhule
That’s an insult to Arizona.
Now West Virgina on the other hand…..
Jinxi
Yeah, let them put her on their damned ticket. And please take those freak “Martians” with her. Honestly, between her crap-ass campaign and the screeching monkey brigades yapping in unison “THAT’S IT! I’M VOTING FOR BUSH III! That’ll show them to mess with ME!” I’m ready to gouge my own eyeballs out. Heh.
JC
All I’m saying is, I’m a demcrat – we have two significantly different bases, almost even – in a NORMAL situation, it seems it would be a no-brainer to have both on the ticket.
Regarding Bush – the nation would have been better served having Gore as VP again, then Darth Cheney. Maybe Bush would have expanded out of his bubble.
(or better yet, have Bush as Gore’s VP – keep the guy schmoozing, and nothing else.)
JC
demOcrat. O. mis-type.
Rick Taylor
I wrote this in another thread, but according to Howard Fineman, Clinton people (people very close to the Clinton camp) are saying that it would be unacceptable for Obama to choose a woman other than Hillary as VP. Via Americablog.
JC
Rick,
It would be a bit of a slap in the face.
Let’s say I’ve won half of a vote – who better to be “runner-up”, than the ACTUAL – by a large margin – runner-up?
Studly Pantload
The Great Orange Satan (no, not Keith Olbermann, but Markos Mulitsas) pointed out that while the Hillster did encourage her minions to go to — wait fer it — http://www.HillaryClinton.com to weigh in on her next move, what happens is that when one goes there, one is asked to register their support for her, thenceupon one is directed to her — class? Bueller? — donation page.
I’m of the mind that if Obama agrees to dig her out of her campaign debt, he can offer, say, Secretary of Health and Human Services, and it’s all good.
She’s got chips — voters. And he’s got chips — mad cash and likely access inside the White House. I’m sure after a few crossed phone messages, they’ll come to an accord, and she’ll be out there to unitify the party and smack down McCain’s Hillary-vs-Obama attacks.
ThymeZone
Well, yes we knew that the GOP would use that material.
But, honestly, I think they are already showing signs of desperation and the campaign has hardly started.
If the speech McCain gave tonight is an indication, if the YouTube thing cited at the top post is an indication, if McCains pathetic attempt to distance himself from Bush is an indication, and if Barack’s speech in Minnesota is an indication, this contest is going to be an ugly and grinding defeat for the GOP and what little remains of that party. The Dems will sweep into power with a generous gain of seats in congress and the White House and the country pretty much behind them to get some serious work done.
I’m glad the GOP floated thos nonsense today, this tells me that they have nothing, that they have seen Obama on the stump and they know that they have nothing to counter the energy that be brings to the fray.
Jack H.
Hillary’s total disregard for facts piled on top of the dementia caused by the Bush years makes me yell at my television. Literally.
That creepy guy with the brown shirt with Hillary written in teal, glasses and Hillary buttons was behind her again tonight. Somebody’s in loooooove.
Hextal was great in his day Mustard, but how many cups? Roy had some awesome performances behind some mediocre Habs teams but Fleury’s performance was up there with the best I’ve ever seen.
Rick Taylor
Why? Because it’s inconceivable the best person for the job might just happen to be a woman, other than Hillary? If he happens to choose a female VP, it’s only because he’s making a political statement or attract women’s votes?
Isn’t that position just incredibly sexist?
JC
Rick,
Well, I’m more of the opinion that she is the best PERSON for the job, because she was such an incredibly strong runner-up. I didn’t make it about female/male. You did that.
Apologies if I wasn’t clear – anyone else would be a slap in the face.
Martin
Check out the 30 Days premiere on FX. New episodes. Morgan does a month in a coal mine in WV. Good episode. Glad to see the show back.
Rick Taylor
I do agree with you there; there’s an argument to be made that Hillary is a natural first choice for VP as she received so many votes. I disagree with the argument for various reasons (chief among them the way she ran her campaign), but it’s not unreasonable.
But I’m wondering if you clicked the link in my post. Because it’s not ME who made this about female/male. Assuming that Fineman isn’t just making things up, it’s people very closely associated with the Clinton campaign. They’re saying that a female VP choice other than Clinton would be unacceptable.
Now maybe I’m putting too much faith in Fineman, maybe he got that wrong. But if he got it right, I find that shocking.
Queixada
Two problems with this.
This expands upon feelings that everything is always Hillary Hillary Hillary. That’s why no one likes her now.
2. At this point where all the good patrons of BJ have had to endure this hell-bent, and Hillary is finally (somewhat) getting her just desserts… You actually think we care about a ‘slap in the face’ to Hillz? She’s a fighter, she can take it.
Queixada
Sorry. That’s “hell-bent primary”
Thomas Smith
I’m surprised no one is mentioning MY candidate who was robbed by the MSM and YouTube.
You all have no idea how difficult it is to be a 50ish white male with a luxurious full head of hair in a world dominated by younger men with MPBS and their shiney shaved heads. You try getting a job as a pop star or a rave promoter or president of the United States with this lush cranial coverage. They are all, “My head looks like a penis, yours looks like a lesbian’s vagina, Breck Girl”. Frikkin sexists. Like they’ve even seen a vagina.
Unfortunately, the election is not about me, it’s about “the country” or some shit, you all don’t want me, you just want my vote, so I’ll probably be moving to some more democratic country like Malaysia and you can all shave your stupid heads for all I care.
JC
Ah, I see. So she plans to DECLINE the VP slot? But then Obama doesn’t “DARE” offer it to another woman, even though she has declined it?
That’s just stupid. IF this report is right – and you really can’t be too sure with Fineman, many grains of salt – that would be totally narcissistic.
JC
Quixeda,
Not just a slap in the face to Clinton – a slap in the face to the 18 million who voted for her, more like. Right?
cbear
I disagree. I think portions of his speech tonight were a setup for at least offering her the VP slot, and I don’t think it’s bad strategy. My assumption would be that she would turn it down, and he could then go on to a more electorally favorable pick, while at the same time mollifying many of her supporters.
At this point, I don’t really care if she is on the ticket or not. I just want this man to be the next President and whatever makes that possible, I’m OK with.
Martin
Doesn’t really work that way, though.
Clinton undermines at least one of Obama’s strongest arguments – in fact, one that some think won him the candidacy – the Iraq vote. And even aside from that, sometimes putting two strong players together doesn’t make them a better team. There are how many sports analogies to draw on here?
Now, I do think that runner up should grant her a strong say on the issues that the DNC advances, but at this stage, I really don’t see what Clinton brings Obama.
Rick Taylor
JC:
Exactly. Glad we see eye to eye.
Thomas Smith
heh.
Of course I never done no pastorin’ in WVa (State Motto:One big happy family! State Flower:Satellite dish!) but ah did live there for nigh on 12 years, an I’m callin’ bullshit…
…corse I got a Bud lite label on my forehead cuz I’m on the patch.
JC
The worry I have of course, is that while I, as a high-minded stupid progressive, clearly thinks we “should” offer the VP slot to Hillary Clinton, because she clearly earned it, with 50% of the democratic electorate.
Then, like many a high-minded progressive, I box myself (and us) into a corner, as there is an element of politics that is – and must be – ruthless.
If it’s going to be a ticket drainer – for a host of various reasons, from Bill Clinton to the weakening of Obama, etc – then don’t do it, and them’s the breaks. there is a winner and a loser, and the winner makes the choices.
But then I go back to my progressive voice, and say – “but that’s how the Rethuglicans operate, by taking a 50+1 strategy, and assuming that gives them carte blanche to do whatever the f**k they want – and this is NOT how I want Obama to do things!! I want him to recognize and honor the VOTERS of this country, which would mean the voters who votes for Hillary Clinton.”
So I’m confused.
Queixada
It’s a gamble. Putting Clinton on undermines the whole premise of his win. Were tired of her antics. I’m willing to bet that more of Clinton’s “18 million” have buyer’s remorse than Obama’s >18 million.
Infact, I’d estimate half of the regulars here are Hillary-refunders.
KC
I don’t know what will happen at this point with the Democrats, but I am girding up for McCain in the White House. Obama’s speech was very gracious tonight, classy, but I think he’s going to get double teamed now.
Thomas Smith
Thems a lot of words over there. Coulda done it shorter by just sayin’, “We think we are really important us bloggers an them Obama bloggers think they is even better than us! Now let me repeat- “Kool-Aid”!”
“Blogosphere”, feh. Go out and ask 50 of your friends, family, coworkers, ask them if the even know what a fuckin blog is.
JC
In the end, I’m with cbear – what is going to help get Obama elected?
If Obama starts his primary campaign, by not respecting the 49.999% who voted for Hillary, then that is a BAD thing, right?
Then we get into the whole “weak/strong” thing, and he optics.
Of course, that – again – is what Bush/Cheney did – think any type of compromise, or listening to people with a different opinion, is being weak. As Cheney said when told of the great majority of the public who wants to leave Iraq – “so?”
This would be so much easier, if Clinton hadn’t spent time undermining Obama…then it would be a no-brainer.
JC
Maybe John Cole can weigh in on this, as he has less ideal “should” baggage that I as a progressive, have (politics ain’t beanbag).
How do you honor the 18 million voters for Hillary Clinton, without offering Hillary Clinton the VP slot? Do you just take the hit?
Martin
Uh, what?
See, the problem with Clinton’s ‘fighter’ image is that I often don’t get the impression that she’s fighting for *me*. She ‘earns’ the VP slot not by getting some votes but by supporting Obama and the ticket. That’s the challenge of VP – Clinton would have to defend *strongly* why Obama is experienced, has good judgement, etc. Because of that, it’s hard to pull in runners-up in campaigns because they almost always burn their bridges with the leader – not because they are bad people, but because that’s just how the primary works.
For example, how does he respond to the GOP ads being run showing Clinton attacking Obama and praising McCain with her on the ticket?
Martin
McCain is gonna get destroyed. Just compare the two speeches tonight and consider the decisions made inside the campaigns. Why would you put McCain on the air in front of 150 people when your opponent left 17,000 standing outside a full arena? These are the people that Obama’s team is running against. I expect I’ll be feeling sorry for McCain by the convention.
Martin
You speak to them. That’s all. You invite them to join the fight against McCain. Why is everyone treating this like a popularity contest? There are issues here – real things at stake. Point that out and they’ll come along.
Seriously, I know a number of people that voted for Clinton that are now HUGE Obama supporters. Once they got to know him and see him not through Clinton’s lens, they’re thrilled that he’s our nominee.
JC
Martin,
Here’s the thing – what does garnering 49.999 percent of the democratic vote get you? 18 million votes in the primary get you?
A “good job” and a bag of chips?
What you may be missing, is that she IS the representative of that 49.999 percent.
She is.
So what does that entitle her to, if anything?
and I’m saying – “it entitles her to nothing”, is the wrong answer, politically.
Andrei
At what point has Obama shown disrepect for those who voted for Hillary? Seriously. I defy you to go back through everything *OBAMA* has said and point out specifically what *OBAMA* has said to show such disrespect.
Martin is right. Obama is going to do what he has done all along. Take the high road, speak to people as if they are adults, and let them makeup their own minds.
I predict around 66% of people who voted for Clinton will gladly listen and then support Obama. Come the General Election I predict the kind of landslide we saw when Reagan was first elected. I mean really… once you put Obama next to McCain in a debate it’s literally going to be no contest. the choice will be crystal clear.
Of the 33% in the Dem party that simply refuse to even listen… well, you are to the Dem party what the Red Staters are to the GOP: A dead end and we’ll see them whenever they decide to take their heads out of the sand.
Jeff
JC-
I think the typical answer is “To the winner go the spoils.” Had positions been reversed, I’m sure HRC would be saying that it’s her decision and hers alone, etc… The theory is, the nominee gets to pick who he/she wants to have replace him/her should something happen to him.
There’s no “process” or “default” position that the runner-up should get the VP nod in a presidential primary. And certainly, she hasn’t made it easier for him to pick her, what, with the Republicans already using her words against him… and I think the fact that her campaign now seems to be actively pushing the VP point actually makes it even MORE unlikely, since now it just looks like she’s forcing her way onto the ticket and Obama will look weak to do it (which would become a campaign point against him again).
Andrei
FWIW… I don’t believe for a moment Obama is going to offer Clinton the VP slot. She’s already proven that all she will do is want to practice the politics of old. I take Obama at his word: He thinks it can be done differently, and given how he’s run his campaign, he’s got my confidence that he indeed can engage in politics differently and still win. Why on earth would he invite drama into his campaign after all the hard work he has done so far.
In fact, I read into Clinton’s non-concession speech that she’s probably miffed Obama to this day continues to defy how it used to be done and is holding on to what is left of the only way she knows how to play the political game. But it’s clearly over.
The GOP is about to get blindsided come Nov. It’s going to be landslide.
Thomas Smith
heh. John, you really need to get some kinda sign in thing going here.
The last thread i was drunk posting on was ‘Chris Johnson’ and ‘Peter Johnson’ boring the hell out of the thread, now you got ‘JC’ and ‘KC’.
I predict next thread he will be down to one letter nyms.
Martin
But it does entitle her to nothing. It entitles her supporters to something, however.
Remember, these candidates aren’t candidates for who comes to dinner. They represent policies, judgement, direction, leadership. Obama owes her supporters those things, but he doesn’t owe them Clinton. This is that ‘entitlement’ thing again. That 49% deserves to be well represented and they will be. That’s all an election is about.
Rome Again
Are you predicting an assassination or what? Hillary did NOT win the nomination.
GSD
This isn’t the kind of change we need.
(Insert creepy, craggy teethy grin here)
-John McAge
Thomas Smith
Don’t mean to be a pendant or anything, but “DENVER! DENVER!”
Rome Again
Those 18 million votes can not be relied upon. Many of them were GOPers setting her up to knock her down in the general.
And do we teach our children that we reward bad behavior?
I think McCain embarrasses himself enough, and is not supported enough in his own party that we don’t really need HRC as VP.
Quite honestly, I am pissed that after the last almost eight years, and with McScrooge as the GOP candidate, that we have to pull this heavy caboose that was supposed to be delivered 500 miles back. I’m convinced Ms “McCain has crossed the C-in-C threshhold” is working as an undecover GOP operative. Her meeting with Scaife surely doesn’t disqualify that idea.
Rome Again
Let her take it to Denver. She doesn’t have the delegates now, and she will only alienate more in that process.
Thomas Smith
Who listens to the MSM nowadays, those clowns are just trying to stay as relevant as The Blogosphere.
I know a guy who read a blog by a guy who knows people who have seen STUNNING video about Obama, video that, once it hits YouTube, will rock this country to its core, and probably win the election for Senator McCain.
You will all be sorry you didn’t nominate Ms. Clinton then.
Gemina13
Don’t bet on it. Here in Phoenix, Shrub and McCain couldn’t even get enough donors to come to the Convention Center for a fundraiser. They had to move it to a private residence.
On the other hand, Michelle Obama did beautifully at the Biltmore. And we’ve got several really important gatherings being held at the Convention Center in the future, like the Wedding Expo and Big Boys Toys. So maybe the POTUS and the senior senator of Arizona shouldn’t feel too bad about not being able to sell enough tickets. /snark
Between the Dead Enders who hate McCain’s guts for championing “amnesty” for illegal immigrants, and the people who hate his guts for sticking up for Shrub’s Folly, McCain stands a good chance of losing Arizona.
Thomas Smith
You are new here, right?
Splitting Image
Well, I knew the Republicans would use it, but I don’t think it will be as useful for them as you think.
If anything, Clinton’s badly chosen words will help convince Democrats that they made the right choice. Especially once people start seeing how little McCain resembles the person Clinton was describing.
Maggie
JC has a point. She has nearly half the party as a base. That’s what gives her claim to VP status. But as JC also said, that’s merely a matter of saying it’s the default position.
There’s a LOT that offsets the default position:
1. Her moves today have created the perception that she’s trying to use extortion to get the spot. But that’s exactly the sort of move that makes it impossible for him to give into her demands, on pain of appearing weak and thereby playing into the themes the GOP is going to try to push. He caves to her demands, how’s he going to hold up with the tough governments he wants to talk to?
2. She stomps all over his message. His message of change really has been about moving away from the Bush-Clinton dynastic politics that have been setting in. She’s run the campaign in a way that does nothing but reinforce the contrast. He takes her on the ticket and he hands the GOP a pile of talking points. He didn’t mean that airy-fairy new politics stuff — he just took on Clinton who epitomizes (to GOP’ers and Independents) that style of politics. (I can say this because I’m an Independent and while I’d still vote for O, my esteem for him would drop a huge amount. He’d have made a lie of his central campaign message, and would thus seem to be just another pol — as his detractors have claimed all along).
3. The alienation of her voters that shows in the polls right now overstates the problem as we head into the fall. Indeed, I read somewhere on the web tonight that the number of her supporters threatening to vote for the other party is completely in-line with historical patterns. The most recent case would have been the polling data among Republicans in late February/early March. The threat she poses to him appears much larger now than it really is.
4. Hard to believe that they could govern well together. We’d be back to the problem of having at least two, if not three (depending on how Bill treats the situation) power bases in the white house. This. is. not. a. good. idea.
I think in the long run adding Hillary to the ticket costs him more than it gains him. He’d look weak. He’d take on board her negatives. And the gain would be limited to the number of voters who would vote for Obama if and only if he took Clinton onto the ticket. This is a subset of her base of support. (The other two subsets are the ones who will vote for Obama regardless; and the ones who won’t vote for Obama regardless).
We”ll see what he does. But if I have his ear, he offers something substantive — Health Czar; but not Veep. It’s conciliatory without taking on the huge negatives that would happen if he bows to her pressure and takes her on as Veep.
Oh yeah — and I’d try hard to take on an acceptable Clinton-supporter as Veep.
Rome Again
Funny, after the convention snafu thing, I mentioned to TZ that I thought Arizona could possibly be in play and he refused to believe me, but, I think you could possibly be right.
Since Schiavo, you?
Rome Again
Sure, if you consider Republican GOP-voting Rush Limbaugh fans are part of “half of the party”.
Rome Again
sorry, meant to insert the word “nearly” in front of “half of the party” – apologies.
Thomas Smith
Of course you would say that “Maggie”.
But seriously, why don’t you start your own blog, hey, I’ll comment there, if only to goof on your longwinded boringness and inept sockpuppetry.
Rome Again
Does she or doesn’t she?
Hillary stated today that she would be open to the VP position, but I’ve seen several people stating she doesn’t want it, couldn’t deal with that position and would never accept it, while I see others saying she DEFINITELY wants it. The pundits are so confused there is no way to tell which way the wind is blowing on that one, which just shoes that Fineman’s idea that she wants it offered to just so she can safe face, refuse it and transfer her votes to Obama so long as he doesn’t choose another woman should NOT be trusted.
And, ummm, for a non-sexist campaign, why are they stating Obama can’t choose another woman? If I were part of the Obama campaign, I’d be considering JUST SUCH A THING! Do they not want a woman to win? The only woman who can win is Hillary? Really? How sexist of them.
Thomas Smith
Yeah whatever, was reading a thread the other day where some cat flipped out and was all “Do You remember why I came here?” and “Do you remember when it was?” and everyone was all, “Who cares?”, and was just wondering if that was you.
Rome Again
Really? Who is the hand underneath of the puppet, please DO tell.
Rome Again
You need to put down the booze, that happened about six hours ago, NOT the other day.
Rome Again
Gee, I’d certainly like to see how many of these trolls are on John McCain’s payroll. I sure hope he can afford to pay them. ;) I mean with the GOP having such a hard time bringing in the funding these days.
Carry on paid trolls, you’re entertaining at least. You won’t change any minds around here, but keep trying, saves you from going to places where someone MIGHT be swayed by your message.
Rome Again
So funny that one person is “everyone”, dude you are seriously drunk!
Also, I asked those questions in response to someone else who said he’d been around for a while.
All these new names that I have only seen for a short period of time all assuming I’m new. Hmmmmm, you really expect me to believe you’re sincere? Right, gotcha!
Thomas Smith
Wohw. No kidding? Fuck, so just today you were getting bitchslapped and ignored on this here blog comments? Thanks for the heads up.
I will heretofore ignore you.
OriGuy
You know, the GOP had two primaries too. McCain only got 70% in South Dakota, and 86% in New Mexico. Sure, most of the others were protest votes, but some of them will be up for grabs, particularly the Paulists.
Rome Again
I didn’t get bitchslapped asshole. You’re seriously drunk.
cbear
Who is Thomas Smith, and will no one rid us of this meddlesome asswipe?
LanceThruster
Seems to be the HRC talking point that anyone who makes Hildabeast Loyalists angry/sad are McCain trolls. I even saw the line “How much is McCain paying you?” used several times.
Is this her unleashing her blog-army on us?
“Oh dear. OH DEAR!” ~ Dr. Zachary Smith
cbear
BTW Asti, did I forget to mention how fetching you look tonight, all dolled up in your OBAMA WINS and FUCK YOU TROLLS dress?
Rome Again
Funny Lost in Space reference. Cute, thanks!
There is a question regarding a memo from the McCain campaign (nobody is sure if it’s authentic or not) that McCain was looking for trolls to create chaos on liberal sites. I personally think it sounds like a classic Karl Rove move for the desperate McCain.
Rome Again
::blushes::
Oh, thank you Cbear. :)
Thomas Smith
Thomas Smith is an angry voter.
See above-
https://balloon-juice.com/?p=10530#comment-687086
He sometimes gets his drink on and watches dumbasses sockpuppet on The Blogosphere.
He had hot monkey sex with your mom before she got all fat and cancerous.
Lupin
The Obama/Clinton fight has only increased my conviction that the US has for the most part become a society of Golgafrinchans, especially if that fight somehow leads to the election of McCain.
I wish someone would convince the 28% on both sides that the country is threatened by a giant mutant space goat, and they would go away and leave the rest of us in peace.
Rome Again
Yeah, we got that part, thanks for playing!
Rome Again
Yeah, me too!
Chuck Butcher
Holy shit, the VP is not runner up or some default whatever. For somebody like HC it’s a place to disappear. Obama would have to bury her – and Bill especially – in meaningless busy work. She’d have more real power as Jr Sen NY. She’s not going to make any real trouble.
Hillary Diplomacy at my place.
Bet me…aw forget that I’m in construction…
cbear
…hot monkey sex with your mom before she got all fat and cancerous.
Dave_Violence
Would you rather…
Be on BO’s enemies list
or
Hillary!’s enemies list?
I take former. And just let it be known that I’ve considered Hillary! to be the strongest candidate from the start.
Xanthippas
John, whatever she or her supporters say, it seems fairly clear that the race is over. Whatever else she might’ve said, she did not appear to say that she will contest the results all the way to Denver, and she’s already hinted at her willingness to accept the VP slot. At this point, Obama supporters like ourselves can afford to be gracious and cut her and her supporters some slack. And honestly, I just can’t get that mad about her speech. Whatever else anyone thinks of Hillary, it’s clear she’s an extremely proud woman. It has to be admired, the ability to make defeat sound like victory.
Joyce
If not this then it would be something else. Hillary remarks will be old news. The fact that the RNC is using Hillary’s remarks will do more harm to her and Bill than anyone else. The tactic will also confirm what many rightwingers have suspected about John McCain–that he is a democrat pretending to be a republican.
Googootz
I hope Obama doesn’t give in to pressure and load Clinton onto the VP slot. She will continue to sabotage Obama’s campaign because she does not want the “superfluent excellence” job for the next eight years and then a quiet retirement – no, the Clintons want another shot at the imperial throne in four years.
Obama/Napolitano or Obama/Sebelius could make for a transforming, historic eight years. Obama/Clinton = President McCain for four years, and another Clinton circus show in 2012.
If, by some miracle, an Obama/Clinton ticket wins, an Obama administration will suffer the indignity of being second-tier news while Bill Clinton gets involved in one scandal after another and the media focuses public attention on the sordid spectacle. Hillary will be in the limelight, and Obama will be, “oh yeah, and the president was some black guy when the Clintons …”
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/michael_tomasky/2008/06/no_shame_no_gain.html
It’s just a wiff of what’s to come.
Otto Man
Looks like Big Tent Democrat has hit the denial stage of grieving:
It’s such a big tent. As long as you agree with him and honor his will, you’re more than welcome to stay.
bago
So today kicked ass. Obama won and I got to see Dethklok. It’s was likes totally not dildoes.
Otto Man
Dahlia Lithwick at Slate:
Xenos
No way. It is not customary to name the VP slot this early, so she can just chill out a couple months. Meanwhile, steady GOP playing of HRC statements belittling Obama will continue to poison the waters. Let it sit, let her sit out long enough that it is plain that her lack of comity and solidarity with the party makes her a pariah.
Twist in the wind, baby.
And her claims of 50% of the party is specious. A lot of her support is from non-Democrats who intend to vote for McCain, from Democrats in Appalachia who intend to vote for McCain, and cranks like Harriet Whatsername who will be too drunk to show up and vote.
Clinton sucks, and 20% of her supporters suck. The 80% who do not suck will come around in due time.
El Cid
I think Obama’s smart enough to push off pressures of this VP game until he’s had time enough to emerge on his own as the Democratic candidate.
The fools and whiners who insist he do it now, now, right now simply could not be more wrong, and they’re about to see that proven.
jake
TenguPhule beat me to it.
The ReThugs will be so overwhelmed by their HillaryHatred that Obama will get a record-setting number of Republican votes.
Popcorn?
Napoleon
I said it before and I will say it again, Obama would be an idiot to put her on the ticket. It would be an epic mistake.
Conservatively Liberal
He is a troll who plays a drunk racist redneck, and pretty poorly at that. He is after the same thing NoIQ was, your goat. He is just another goatfucking troll. So you can safely ignore (or deride) Thomas as just another goat chasing Republican troll. His ‘conversations’ here are about as productive as flushing a clogged toilet.
At least you have a plunger for the toilet, so there is hope for it. Not so for poor Doubting Thomas. Nothing will swallow a clog that ugly.
Karmakin
Re:The article WAAAAAAAYYYY back in the first link.
Basically, it’s completely crap. 100%. There’s absolutely no discussion, or wondering, or thought taken towards just why the blogosphere as a whole has taken the stance that it has? This doesn’t go for every person.
The Orthodoxy of Daily Kos
That’s a link to a diary I wrote several months ago explaining the whole thing. The focus is on GOS, but it’s applicable to quite a few writers.
In the beginning, people were optimistic about the primary season. That we’d have a good list of candidates who can push the issues and increase the value of Brand Democrat. Yay!!
But then the Clinton campaign started dismissing states. And dismissing the 50-state strategy. And insulting the activist wing of the Democratic party. And overrelying on ultra-expensive, positively useless corporatist consultants. They made it clear that they viewed the last few years as an oddity, and that they intended to change it back.
After all the gains that the progressive blogosphere has fought SO HARD for over the last few years? I dun think so.
That’s where it got ugly. And it just got worse from there. Instead of taking a step back from it, the Clinton campaign continued to go down that road, and in fact is STILL going down that road.
That people got pissed at this? At the supporters of this? What the fuck did you THINK would happen? Most of the Clinton supporters are oblivious to this factor. Don’t even, or don’t want to mention it. It breaks their frames. Because if you give in to this, everything makes sense. We’re not drinking no kool-aid, we’re working on furthering long-term goals.
Obama may not be all that progressive (I argue that being progressive does not require one to be liberal. Only a recognition of the real issues and a honest desire to improve them.) but his movement, what he’s doing, which is the ENTIRE point of his campaign most certainly is.
marjo
Hillary is such a continual disappointment. Why would anyone really believe that she would work for the benefit of the ticket, that she would defer to Obama as the top of the ticket or as President, when she cannot demonstrate sufficient grace to congratulate him without her fingers crossed behind her back?
To earn grace, show grace. To earn respect, show respect. She has painted her supporters into a corner of desperation, and left them with no path out.
Otto Man
Want some hilarity?
Hillaryis44.org: When Will Obama Concede?
Conservatively Liberal
Well said! Hillary never was very popular at Kos, except for her astroturfers who started up the infamous ‘writers strike’ at Kos when it was clear that the Obama supporters there weren’t buying what the astroturfers were selling.
Obama is all about people-powered politics, which the netroots fully embraces. Hillary ran a top-down campaign, and Obama ran from the bottom-up. Hillary dictated to everyone, and Obama listened to everyone. Hillary tried to redefine the game again and again to fit ‘her’ framework rather than focus on the rules and the existing framework. Obama read and understood the rules and the existing framework, and he worked within them to win. His definition of the winner has never changed where Hillary constantly moved the goal posts in a lame attempt to portray herself as the non-stop winner.
This was the story of the tortoise and the hare all over again. The hare thought the race was all but over, and so was easily distracted from the race while playing up the ‘inevitable winner’ angle and soaking up the spotlight. The tortoise just kept the goal in sight the whole time, while the hare wandered off the race track. By the time the hare figured out that she blew it, it was too late for her to recover.
I hate to tell Hillary this, but the rabbit is dead.
jake
Man that is some spooftaclar spoofosity. They deserve a grant from the NEA.
Bob In Pacifica
People need to get over this “Clinton is irrational.” She’s being very rational if you look at what she’s been doing since around the time of the “native garb/Drudge” thingie. She is running to destroy the Democratic Party. Quite simply, she has more loyalty to the people who delivered the 109 million to her than to any of her constituency or any Dem outside her coalition or any American citizen. She’s as much for the working person as Peron was.
I know it’s quaint and out of favor, but use a little class analysis here. If it’s best for her keepers to continue the drama and demand and refuse the Veep position, or say she’s going to take her fight to Denver, or to form a third party, just let your eyes follow the golden chain up to her handlers. Really. In the old days before the media mergers in the nineties there used to be editorial cartoons about this kind of behavior.
J
Perhaps HC is angling to be McCain’s VP?
Notorious P.A.T.
That is a stupid article.
Chris Johnson
Paid trolls are cheap to feed- you can buy Cheetos wholesale.
I’m going to contest the idea that Hillary Clinton represents half of America (half of the Democrats? 1/4 of America?), and thus ‘must’ be represented, as if she was some kind of Senator (oh wait)…
If she’s in a position where she’s capable of studying and wonking out on the issues more than her average voter, and then will not use her better judgement but panders to that voter who knows less than she does, she is NOT REPRESENTING them.
If she’s bouncing around catching prevailing winds no matter how foul, in hopes of exciting the voters into some sort of passion that she can grab onto and associate herself with, she is NOT REPRESENTING them and she’s corrupting them for her own gain.
This is not a qualification for Vice-President…
We’ve got Congress to be representational. The President and VP are for symbolizing what Americans are about. It looks like Bush and his crowd correctly symbolized how we were post-9/11 and ran that into the fucking ground, and now we’re revealing different things about ourselves which Obama well represents. We still have that Jimmy Stewart thing going on, we’re too naive but we’re capable of being the hero and not just the badass antihero dickwad.
We are NOT gonna tie Hillary Clinton to our self-image right now, after what she’s done. She should’ve stayed an honest wonk instead of trying to stoke the guttering fires of racism and imperialism. Let her words be used to prop up the McCain campaign, they could use the help. Fuck her.
Notorious P.A.T.
Hahahaha! You’re actually using the quality of Hillary’s campaign as evidence she’d be a good VP? She took a huge lead in polling, money, name recognition, and establishment support, and turned it into a resounding defeat against someone almost nobody had heard of 4 years ago. And that qualifies her to be Vice President of the world’s most powerful country?
Notorious P.A.T.
Oh, and how many of the people who helped her get “almost half the vote” now regret their support?
For instance:
http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/politics&id=6129995
eastriver
JC, you are a treat. You really are.
Your derangement has become a thing of humor. I laugh at you.
“Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.” (That’s me laughing.)
Make a list of the ten things that most need fixing in this country. You know what? HRC isn’t responsible for any of them.
None.
(Voting for the AUMF don’t count; as we know, GWB was going to invade whether or not congress gave him the greenlight.)
You’re transferring your hatred from GWB onto HRC. If you had the slightest bit of self-awareness you would see this.
I know you will miss your pant-suited pinata. And I feel sorry for you. But, like my five-year-old daughter, you must learn to stop throwing tantrums over things that don’t matter.
Focus, JC.
(Write more, link less. It’s fun when you quote others, and link to their better work, but I know you can write. I’ve read it. You wrote something quite good a few years ago. So good that I keep coming back, foolishly thinking that you might write something that good again. Am I also deranged? Probably. I’m also probably wasting my time. Because you don’t seem to want to really write anything. Foolish me. Foolish you.)
Conservatively Liberal
I think Hillary would make a great ambassador, to Siberia. While putting her on the ticket would be a nice gesture, it is not necessary for a win this fall. Her and Bill have a bunch of ‘unchecked baggage’, starting with the Clinton Foundation and its list of donors.
There is no need to ‘make nice’ with her more unreasonable supporters, none at all. One person wins the contest, and everyone else loses. This is no different than any other contest in that regard. As they say, to the winner goes the spoils. Her goals should be taken in to account, and she should have a part of making them happen if she wishes to do so via an Obama administration, but she has not earned the VP spot.
Not after this scorched earth campaign she has run against Obama. No way.
grumpy realist
Uh, Hillary–when you’re getting that much snark from a pretty liberal female (and feminist) commentator as Dahlia, hang it up, girl. You’re just making yourself look embarrassing.
(And yeah, I can use the G-word, just like people of color can use certain vocabulary among themselves that would be considered obnoxious outside the group.)
grumpy realist
(“pretty” as in “rather”, not in regards to appearance.)
Notorious P.A.T.
I want to second what you wrote, and add some thoughts of my own.
The “Kool-aid” meme itself is absurd and tired, and not worth discussing. But does she really think we “drank” it because we wanted to be on the winning side? Has she spent the last six months with her head buried in the sand?
“That loathing has become so ingrained after months of attacks on the fundamental character of both candidates (she’s fundamentally a racist southern cracker, he’s a misogynist empty suit, according to the most rabid supporters of either side)”
No, the rabid Clinton supporters call Obama a terrorist, a secret Muslim who was brainwashed at madrassas, an America-hating communist working to destroy this country from the inside. Don’t believe me? Go look for yourself.
“Clinton’s health care plan is universal, Obama’s is not. ”
Every time someone says Clinton and Obama are alike in policy, a puppy cries. Gas tax. Obliterate them. THE WAR. Hillary could promise a doctor in every living room and I wouldn’t supporter her, because I don’t believe she has any intention of reforming our country’s health care system. She has received more money from the health insurance interests than any other candidate. Not any other *Democrat*, any other *candidate*. And any reasonable change in health care policy would gut the profits of those interests. So don’t laud Hillary’s health care plan to me.
But, she admits to being a Hillary supporter, so what else do we expect?
Xenos
Think of them as the Democrats’ version of the crazification factor. If She is elected, her looney 24% will egg her on and validate her corruption just like the Republican 28% has ruined that party.
We have a smaller CF, but it amounts to the same thing, I fear.
The Other Steve
One of the arguments I find funny, is the Hillbots keep referring to Reagan taking Bush as his VP back in 1980, claiming they fought a bitter campaign and still came together, blah blah.
Here’s the map, and it wasn’t close fought. Reagan won 60% of the states.
One of the stories that comes from 1980 is that Reagan initially was going to pick Gerald Ford as the VP. Ford said something though, demanding certain powers or something like that, and Reagan promptly dumped the idea.
I’d say the comparison to 1980 is more apt if you consider Hillary Clinton the Gerald Ford of the day. Which is all the more reason to not select her as VP.
Tim F.
Why not? You were wrong about Iraq too.
Karmakin
Notorious:I’m a single-payer or socio-economic death kinda guy. I’m sure you know what I mean.
I prefer Obama’s plan. I agree with him on the mandate thing. Why? If for right now all you can get is a market based system, in order for markets to work, people need the ability to say no. Without that, it won’t control the costs.
The whole thing makes me feel as if it’s a giveaway to the insurance industry. Maybe I’m wrong, but she’s done herself no favors trustworthy wise IMO
empty
And if Clinton had won the republicans would not have used the Obama’s version of the Harry and Louise ad against her? I think it was wrong for both of them to criticize each other from the right and I don’t recall saying you or anybody else had CDS for objecting to that.
I try to read what is written. And I think that post was well written and made points that needed to be made.
If by support you are asking if I will vote for Obama – yes I will. Unlike some I have never been so far gone in XDS to claim that if my sainted candidate did not win I would take my ball and go home. As far as Clinton knee-capping Obama. If she did I would oppose it but just because you characterize a particular statement or tactic as knee-capping don’t make it so. And finally, supporting Obama does not put him above criticism. In fact, I think this will be the time to pressure him from the left on things like health care. Someone in a previous post had a very eloquent response to the claim that Obama is an empty suit. Apropos of that I would say that if Obama is the suit we wear we need to be actively involved in developing the direction where we want the country to go – and one way to do that is to critique his positions.
PaulB
Well-written it might have been. Alas, the points it made were wholly unsupported. Ian consistently and repeatedly failed to make his case. Hell, he didn’t even try, failing to provide even a single example to support his assertions. I don’t know which blogosphere he was reading but it sure as hell didn’t match the one I read.
empty
Which particular point did you feel was unsupported?
Amie Newman
Let me say that I am neither a Hillary supporter nor do I think Obama is Jesus Christ. But, I’m sorry, what the hell did we expect from a candidate running for President? What is wrong with HRC questioning her competitors experience and whether or not he DOES have what it takes? And as a far, far left progressive who does want to see change, I am all for questioning Barack Obama and his ability to do the job. Why don’t I get to ask the question – is he really, honestly qualified??? This whole election season has been a farce as far as I’m concerned. HRC has run a crappy, negative campaign for sure. But if I so much as question Barack Obama’s abilities and experience I am shot down immediately for daring to question the great and might BO.
Does he have what it takes to be commander-in-chief at such an unstable, vulnerable point for our country, the Middle East, and many regions around the world? I have no freakin’ idea because I’m just supposed to tout the BO party line that he is all about change.
If Barack Obama loses it’s not because his democratic contender dared to question his abilities. This is like John Kerry/GWB race all over again. He was ill-picked from the start and it was the Democratic party & the Democrats fault to a degree that GWB won the presidency. Let’s not make the same mistake twice.
If Barack Obama cannot get passed HRC questioning his abilities I’m not sure he has what it takes to run in the general election against John McCain.
SamFromUtah
Why don’t I get to ask the question – is he really, honestly qualified??? This whole election season has been a farce as far as I’m concerned.
Amie, you could have summarized that entire comment with the last two words I excerpted here.
TenguPhule
You have a simple Choice.
Obama or Fucking Insane McCain.
That’s it.
So shut the fuck up, you whiny little concern troll.