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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2008 / And the Clinton Psychodrama Continues

And the Clinton Psychodrama Continues

by John Cole|  August 25, 20087:19 am| 89 Comments

This post is in: Election 2008, I Can No Longer Rationally Discuss The Clinton Campaign, Did You Know John McCain Was A POW?

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It will never end:

Some senior Obama supporters are irritated at how they perceive the Clintons fanned — or at a minimum failed to douse — stories that she was not even vetted as a possible vice presidential nominee. This is because she told Obama she preferred not to go through the rigorous process of document production unless she was really a serious contender, an Obama associate noted.

One senior Obama supporter said the Clinton associates negotiating on her behalf act like “Japanese soldiers in the South Pacific still fighting after the war is over.”

A prominent Obama backer said some of Clinton’s lieutentants negotiating with the Obama team are “bitter enders” who presume that, rather than the Clintons reconciling themselves to Obama’s victory, it is up to Obama to accommodate them.

In fact, some senior veterans of Clinton’s presidential campaign do believe this.

“He has not fully reconciled,” said one political operative close to the Clintons, “and he has not demonstrated that he accepts the Clintons and the Clinton wing of the party.”

While the Clintons have a relatively easy job in Denver — to deliver gracious speeches and accept what are likely to be loud cheers from their supporters — it is “Obama who has the heavy lifting” this week, this aide said.

Of course some of her aides are pissed- this was supposed to be their show. They backed the sure thing, did everything they could to back the winning horse, lost, and now they are on the outside looking in. The sad thing is, even I think right now that Hillary is pretty much doing everything she can. She is releasing her delegates, she has formed teams to keep her delegates in line and behaving, has responded to the latest silliness from the McCain campaign about the glass ceiling, and has been nothing but cheerleading for Obama publicly. A few of her former aides and former supporters are, from where I sit, the real problem.

*** Update ***

Yes, I am aware the liberal media is stoking this fire.

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Previous Post: « Did You Know McCain Was a POW?
Next Post: Yeah, That Sucked »

Reader Interactions

89Comments

  1. 1.

    cleek

    August 25, 2008 at 7:22 am

    f’e m. ignore the petulant little babies. it’s time they learned that banging your sippy cup on the table doesn’t always mean that mommy brings you a cookie.

  2. 2.

    dewberry

    August 25, 2008 at 7:30 am

    Those few former aides and their shortsightedness and inability to think strategically are also partially why she’s not the main draw.

    So now they’re trying to remain relevant and get media time by being the whinemeisters…

  3. 3.

    zzyzx

    August 25, 2008 at 7:37 am

    I think the McCain ad might backfire. It’s like a family split into feuding camps. If an outsider starts taking sides in the squabble, they quickly unite.

  4. 4.

    chopper

    August 25, 2008 at 8:03 am

    The sad thing is, even I think right now that Hillary is pretty much doing everything she can.

    i don’t agree with that. i aint been seein too much of the clintons lately. seems like hills is only doing the bare minimum here.

    not because i think she’s still giving her hardcore supporters a wink and a nod, mind you – but she’s still pissed off about losing and isn’t too excited about stumping for the winner.

  5. 5.

    linda

    August 25, 2008 at 8:06 am

    this story is being stoked and kept alive by the media who cannot let go of the clintons. the sudden concern for women’s political inclusion as expressed by pat buchanan, joe scarborough and the yammering msnbc fratpac has been heartening to see this morning.

  6. 6.

    KRK

    August 25, 2008 at 8:06 am

    I don’t doubt that there are people with these feelings on both sides, I feel some of it myself, but this is just crap reporting on politico’s part.

    What in POW’s name is a “senior Obama supporter” anyway? An Obama supporter over the age of 65? Does Scarlett Johannson qualify as a “prominent Obama backer”? They had to stick some appellation onto their sources to make them seem tied to the campaign and therefore juicy, but any schmo off the street could be a “senior Obama supporter.”

  7. 7.

    Kurt

    August 25, 2008 at 8:10 am

    In regards to above comment: “the petulant little babies” all get the same one vote that the Obamabots each get. Obama made a huge mistake not picking Hillary. Guilty white liberals and Blacks voted for Obama mainly because he was (half) Black, and now they look down on women who want Hillary mainly because she is a woman. I am an independent voting for McCain, and my wife is a life long Democrat who will: vote McCain, or vote Nader, or stay home.

  8. 8.

    rachel

    August 25, 2008 at 8:12 am

    not because i think she’s still giving her hardcore supporters a wink and a nod, mind you

    Except for the out-and-out ratfuckers, they’re deluded enough to supply their own nods and winks, anyway.

    – but she’s still pissed off about losing and isn’t too excited about stumping for the winner.

    For which I don’t blame her; it would feel unnatural if she were.

  9. 9.

    Jake

    August 25, 2008 at 8:12 am

    The sad thing is, even I think right now that Hillary is pretty much doing everything she can.

    It’s debatable. I really hope she uses her speech to outline the choice at hand for her supporters, and to slam McCain, over and over again.

    I’m really sick and tired of hearing about the Clintons and their supporters though. And yet, it seems, that is mostly what we’ll hear about this week. Sigh.

  10. 10.

    Glocksman

    August 25, 2008 at 8:12 am

    It gets even better.
    The McCain camp has an ad with Debra Bartoschevich (sp?), that Wisconsin delegate who said she’d back McCain and was stripped of her delegate status as a result.

    YouTube
    Tool.

  11. 11.

    KRK

    August 25, 2008 at 8:14 am

    i aint been seein too much of the clintons lately. seems like hills is only doing the bare minimum here.

    I read somewhere that Clinton has done six appearances for Obama, which she says is more than anyone in her position has ever done. Fair enough. Let’s see how the Clintons handle their speaking slots. Through DCW I see that politico is reporting that Bill Clinton wants to talk about the economy but is scheduled to speak on the night that national security is the topic, so he’s not happy. If that’s true, it seems like something that could have been ironed out before now. But then again, it might have been something that politico heard from the Clintons’ neighbor’s cousin.

  12. 12.

    nightjar

    August 25, 2008 at 8:14 am

    i don’t agree with that. i aint been seein too much of the clintons lately. seems like hills is only doing the bare minimum here.

    I absolutely agree. She is doing just enough to say she’s doing something and inoculate herself from charges of sabotaging the Obama campaign. When speaking to her followers she still refers to Obama as her opponent. And do you think her Capo’s would be out there keeping the feud going if the Clinton’s didn’t want them to. It’s 2012 they want with her up against John Mccain, IMHO.

  13. 13.

    Jay C

    August 25, 2008 at 8:15 am

    One can almost understand the frustrations of the Clintonistas – the “insiders”; the party pros, consultants, ex-Administration personnel, etc.: not the whiny PUMA rabble, that is – here they had built and maintained the only working Democratic “Machine” around, and were looking to ride it to victory. And have seen it crash and burn: undone in a few months’ campaigning by an “outsider” pheenom. One using the hoary old method of ground-up organizing: but married to a slick very-21st-Century media-savvy Internet-heavy campaign approach.

    One would think that the folks running the old Clinton “Machine”* would get the hint by now that they’re old news, and that the only way for them to get/keep any real influence in the Dem Party from here on in is to jump on the Obama bandwagon (steering the damn thing while Barry and Joe wave to the crowds from the wagon bed). One would think.

    * Not Hillary herself: she and Bill are WAY too smart to do anything to get themselves shut out of power: the PUMA crap seems to be mostly coming from the peanut gallery.

  14. 14.

    The Thinking Man's Mel Torme

    August 25, 2008 at 8:16 am

    OT: but why does NPR persist in interviewing “swing” voters who clearly have no intention of voting Democrat? Today’s report from flyover country was the exurban counties of Philadelphia. Ever-earnest Inskeep talked to a couple who used to be registered Republicans, but are now independents. They voted for Dubya twice, in the words of the husband, “if you can beleive that.” As always, they make some vague digestive noises about being dissatisfied with the direction of the country. This would seem like a slam dunk: they’re voting Obama this year, right? Sadly, no: the husband is for McCain, the wife “undecided,” but leaning McCain, even though she “doesn’t know enough about Obama, but knows ‘too much’ about McCain”. As if I couldn’t see that one coming.

    Really, is it laziness? I know they’re nice polite republicans, and all, but is it so hard to find a voter with real indecision, and have an honest converstation with him or her? They do have Bobo on regularly, so I guess dilletante antropology is the best they can manage.

  15. 15.

    jake

    August 25, 2008 at 8:17 am

    One senior Obama supporter said the Clinton associates negotiating on her behalf act like “Japanese soldiers in the South Pacific still fighting after the war is over.”

    Uh-oh. Is that as cool as being a POW? Maybe we ought to listen to them.

  16. 16.

    HRA

    August 25, 2008 at 8:17 am

    It’s nothing new with the Clintons. Their egos are larger than life. I suspect neither one of them ever learned its not winning that counts, it’s how you lose.
    Morning Joe was horrific this am. Obama can do nothing right in their eyes.

  17. 17.

    Jay C

    August 25, 2008 at 8:17 am

    One can almost understand the frustrations of the Clintonistas – the “insiders”; the party pros, consultants, ex-Administration personnel, etc.: not the whiny PUMA rabble, that is – here they had built and maintained the only working Democratic “Machine” around, and were looking to ride it to victory. And have seen it crash and burn: undone in a few months’ campaigning by an “outsider” pheenom. One using the hoary old method of ground-up organizing: but married to a slick very-21st-Century media-savvy Internet-heavy campaign approach.

    One would think that the folks running the old Clinton “Machine”* would get the hint by now that they’re old news, and that the only way for them to get/keep any real influence in the Dem Party from here on in is to jump on the Obama bandwagon (steering the damn thing while Barry and Joe wave to the crowds from the wagon bed). One would think.

    * Not Hillary herself: she and Bill are WAY too smart to do anything to get themselves shut out of power: the PUMA crap seems to be mostly coming from the peanut gallery.

  18. 18.

    Jan

    August 25, 2008 at 8:19 am

    cleek, can you imagine anyone wanting to be in a political party with members like you? Aren’t your friends Chris and Keith missing you at the BHO junior-high after-school circle-jerk right about now?

    When is the last time Democrats won an election without a Clinton on the ticket? Oh, yeah, 1976 — 30 years ago. Why Democrats seem to savor losing elections is very bewildering to most of America but oh, well… it’s YOUR party, cleek.

    Insulting Clinton supporters while banging YOUR sippy cup on the table won’t win you the election in November — swing voters will.

    Do you honestly believe swing voters — you know, those Reagan Democrats/Clinton Republicans who have decided every Presidential election in my lifetime — are going to hand America over for an Obama-Pelosi-Reid Liberal Lovefest?

    I guess we’ll see in November, won’t we?

    My response to those rabid Clinton Haters who encourage me to leave the Democratic party if I’m not voting for the DNC’s hand-picked Empty Suit is:
    Good riddance, losers!

  19. 19.

    dr. bloor

    August 25, 2008 at 8:19 am

    “Clinton Wing.” Heh–is that what the kids are calling the psychiatric ward these days?

  20. 20.

    nightjar

    August 25, 2008 at 8:29 am

    My response to those rabid Clinton Haters who encourage me to leave the Democratic party if I’m not voting for the DNC’s hand-picked Empty Suit is:
    Good riddance, losers!

    Newsflash. You left the democratic party on your own and it’s probably for the best. And I never thought I’d hear the term Clinton/Republicans. We have come full circle on the crazy train of Clinton cultists. Next Bill take a plumb pundit job at Fox News and the Sun Queen and her subjects will adopt the mug of Ronald Reagan as the Icon of her Queendom.

  21. 21.

    wasabi gasp

    August 25, 2008 at 8:30 am

    Your generosity towards Hillary is admirable, I suppose, but unless she really did create some Frankenstein monster that can no longer be controlled, I think we are witnessing her 2012 presidential campaign.

    For Hillary to have any chance in 2012, she would have to appear shaken the dirt from her primary hands and magnanimously supportive of the Democratic candidate, while surrogates fling just enough mud for sabotage without mucking up the unity pantsuit. Is this how it appears?

  22. 22.

    Andrew

    August 25, 2008 at 8:32 am

    When is the last time Democrats won an election without a Clinton on the ticket? Oh, yeah, 1976—30 years ago. Why Democrats seem to savor losing elections is very bewildering to most of America but oh, well… it’s YOUR party, cleek.

    That’s pretty stupid. The last time the Republicans won an election without a Bush on the ticket was… 1980. Hm. Not that much different.

    Is your position actually that the Democrats owe the Clintons the presidency whenever they want it? A coronation?

    Are you saying the Democrats after Hillary have no chance to win untill Chelsea decides to run? Or that without a Clinton, the Democrats will never win?

    Are you actually arguing for the establishment of an American Monarchy?

  23. 23.

    Xenos

    August 25, 2008 at 8:33 am

    This is mischief from Politico. Name some names, give some attribution here, or drop it already. “Anonymous Source Remains Bitchy” is not newsworthy, is it?

    If Mark Penn or Bill Clinton do not want to be quoted, then their whining should not be reported – it just gives a privileged venue for people operating in bad faith.

  24. 24.

    Andrew

    August 25, 2008 at 8:35 am

    Sorry, it wasn’t even 1980; G. H. W. Bush was on the ticket as VP.

    Republicans haven’t won without a Bush since Ford! Even earlier than that – which must mean, by your logic, that without a Bush on the ticket, they’re bound to lose in 2008.

  25. 25.

    rob!

    August 25, 2008 at 8:35 am

    whew! Jan’s got her mad on! try decaf.

    anyway, i can’t say i’m surprised at this. HRC stoked the fires, getting her base supporters (who run on a lean mixture) riled up to the point where even SHE can’t control them anymore.

    now, the PUMAs and such are in Denver, making asses of themselves, and they make her look bad with their delusional behavior.

    at this point Hillary must know they are not helping her in any way. that’s what you get, Dr. Hillary Rodham Frankenstein!

  26. 26.

    John Cole

    August 25, 2008 at 8:37 am

    Your generosity towards Hillary is admirable, I suppose, but unless she really did create some Frankenstein monster that can no longer be controlled, I think we are witnessing her 2012 presidential campaign.

    I will say this now. Hillary Clinton will never be President. If Obama loses, no matter what she does to help him/hurt him, she will be blamed and will never, ever, win the nomination in 2012.

  27. 27.

    Xenos

    August 25, 2008 at 8:38 am

    My response to those rabid Clinton Haters who encourage me to leave the Democratic party if I’m not voting for the DNC’s hand-picked Empty Suit is:
    Good riddance, losers!

    You must be a spoof, because I refuse to believe that anyone is really that stupid.

    Is that you, Miquey?

  28. 28.

    Zifnab

    August 25, 2008 at 8:38 am

    the sudden concern for women’s political inclusion as expressed by pat buchanan, joe scarborough and the yammering msnbc fratpac has been heartening to see this morning.

    And these are the same yokels who were twisting their panties into giant wads over Hillary’s Senate years and Bill’s Oval Office escapades.

    It seems like Hillary’s biggest supporters today are the same people who were more than willing to rehash Vince Foster yesterday. How strange.

    When is the last time Democrats won an election without a Clinton on the ticket? Oh, yeah, 1976—30 years ago. Why Democrats seem to savor losing elections is very bewildering to most of America but oh, well… it’s YOUR party, cleek.

    When was the last time Republicans won an election without a Bush on the ticket? Oh, yeah, 1972, 34 years ago. Just say’n.

    I mean, by your logic, we should be running Clinton / Kennedy.

  29. 29.

    ksmiami

    August 25, 2008 at 8:43 am

    The Clintons can fuck off at this point. Many people lose primaries and don’t whine about it. Her Harridan support is made up of the scariest women I have come in contact with and they make me ashamed to be a woman. Bill is a total tool and embarrassment at this point and she should stop blaming Obama for winning and start looking at her own team and family and why she lost. If for some reason, Americans continue to be stupid and vote McCain, I will personally make it my mission to ensure she never gets near another presidential primary run again

  30. 30.

    Zifnab

    August 25, 2008 at 8:44 am

    I will say this now. Hillary Clinton will never be President. If Obama loses, no matter what she does to help him/hurt him, she will be blamed and will never, ever, win the nomination in 2012.

    I seriously doubt that Hillary wouldn’t be able to clinch a theoretical nomination in 2012 if Obama were to lose. But if Obama were to lose in November, it would pretty much douse any hope for a Democratic White House for my lifetime. If the Democrats can’t win today, they might as well throw in the towel. Political winds won’t be this favorable for another 40 years.

    Be it by Diebold (now Premier Election Solutions) or by stoked racism or by another terror attack or by people simply unwilling to vote Democrat, if the Republicans can win today America will have effectively written the party a blank check to do whatever it damn well feels like, and the GOP will cash it with religious zeal. And I’ll be moving to Canada, because, seriously, fuck this.

  31. 31.

    rob!

    August 25, 2008 at 8:45 am

    I will say this now. Hillary Clinton will never be President. If Obama loses, no matter what she does to help him/hurt him, she will be blamed and will never, ever, win the nomination in 2012.

    i’ve always thought this–that’s why she fought so hard this last time, dragging herself through the gutter. she knew this was HER CHANCE.

    of course, there’s always Chelsea. Jan, start working on those campaign posters!

  32. 32.

    Laura W

    August 25, 2008 at 8:46 am

    HRA Says:

    Morning Joe was horrific this am.

    Morning Joe is horrific every am. I tune in for the guests, but even then, you hear nothing from them without constant talking over and inane blathering from Joe, Mika, and that old crazy guy who yells. The sound this morning is especially annoying! I end up muting it and flipping away more than listening or watching. Why? Why?

    So I had just grabbed my first cup of coffee and flipped it on this morn and what do I hear? “WHO WON THE VOTES IN XYZ (insert hard working white towns here)?” uh, Hillary, Pat? “I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY HE DID NOT PUT HER ON THE TICKET!!!!”

    I do not understand why you scream instead of talking, Pat.
    And I still do not understand why you just don’t go get a room. But….I laughed at him. What a one-trick goat. That, “my friends” is recovery.

  33. 33.

    wasabi gasp

    August 25, 2008 at 8:46 am

    I will say this now. Hillary Clinton will never be President.

    From your mouth to Goddess’ ears.

  34. 34.

    Bob In Pacifica

    August 25, 2008 at 8:46 am

    And Ford didn’t win any national election. He was appointed Veep when Spiro Agnew was hauled off, then served out the rest of Nixon’s term when Nixon was Watergated.

    Therefore, you have to go back to 1972 to find a Republican winning the Presidency without a Bush on the ticket.

    Which actually suggests that being the DCI, or the son of the DCI, has its political perks.

  35. 35.

    dr. bloor

    August 25, 2008 at 8:47 am

    When is the last time Democrats won an election without a Clinton on the ticket?

    2000. Why do you ask?

  36. 36.

    The Moar You Know

    August 25, 2008 at 8:47 am

    Republicans haven’t won without a Bush since Ford!

    Ford, I may remind you, wasn’t elected. So Republicans haven’t won the presidency without a Bush on the ticket since 1972.

    There have been Bushes in political office since before my father was born.

    I think we’ve all had enough of American monarchies.

  37. 37.

    The Thinking Man's Mel Torme

    August 25, 2008 at 8:48 am

    And these are the same yokels who were twisting their panties into giant wads over Hillary’s Senate years and Bill’s Oval Office escapades.

    It seems like Hillary’s biggest supporters today are the same people who were more than willing to rehash Vince Foster yesterday. How strange.

    broken record, redux: if you haven’t already, buy and read “Nixonland.” This has all the hallmarks of CREEP’s trashing of the Democratic campaigns in 1972, just more subtle and teevee-oriented. Don’t be surprised if you see in the coming weeks flyers for Obama rallies promising free beer…

  38. 38.

    colleeniem

    August 25, 2008 at 8:54 am

    Hey, sorry to OT and thread-jack, but if you read this and can still hardily support McCain, you can have him.
    I say this as a Hillary sympathizer and one who voted for her in NY Senate, twice.

    http://www.newsweek.com/id/154913

    Sorry John, the embeds don’t work on my work computer. Don’t hit me!

  39. 39.

    Brian

    August 25, 2008 at 8:54 am

    “i don’t agree with that. i aint been seein too much of the clintons lately. seems like hills is only doing the bare minimum here.

    not because i think she’s still giving her hardcore supporters a wink and a nod, mind you – but she’s still pissed off about losing and isn’t too excited about stumping for the winner.”

    Let’s be clear: it doesn’t look as if these people constitute anything but a small faction of supporters. And they look like small-time supporters at that. It’s not as if Howard Wolfson is out there peddling this nonsense day after day. That said, by trying to intervene as if this was some sort of dire threat, Clinton would be giving these people more significance than they deserve or would otherwise get. It’s probably best if she simply does little more than ignore them, while of course doing all she can to help Obama.

    As I tried to say earlier today before my post attempt failed, it’ll be quite the visual if Clinton tacks on an Obama-Biden pin at the end of her speech and says something like, “I’ve worked very hard to make this country a better place. That’s why I am voting for Barack Obama and Joe Biden. If you want to make this country a better place, you will, too.” Have every single surrogate on televison talking about this afterward, and those trying to nip at the heels of Obama will be even more marginalized than they are now.

  40. 40.

    Laura W

    August 25, 2008 at 8:54 am

    Zifnab Says:

    And I’ll be moving to Canada, because, seriously, fuck this.

    I decided this end of last week and have advised close friends as such. I probably said it in 2004, but I really mean it now, as evidenced by my googling: “Relocating to Vancouver, BC” right after.

    I will never have been more ashamed of (and frightened of) my country if McCain wins, and I truly think the fear and despair will be overwhelming to me. I’ll have to make a major change to find a reason to keep living, and coloring my hair blue won’t be enough.

  41. 41.

    PC

    August 25, 2008 at 8:55 am

    Morning Joe is horrific every am.

    They need to rename the show to Morning Concern Troll.

  42. 42.

    gil mann

    August 25, 2008 at 8:56 am

    Aren’t your friends Chris and Keith missing you at the BHO junior-high after-school circle-jerk right about now?

    Personally, I gotta close my eyes and pretend he’s Dodd.

    There’s always that weird sexual undertone with these people when they’re in taunt mode. Jan, you do understand that online political chat is metaphorical masturbation, right?

  43. 43.

    cleek

    August 25, 2008 at 10:45 am

    cleek, can you imagine anyone wanting to be in a political party with members like you?

    grow the fuck up, Jan.

  44. 44.

    PeterJ

    August 25, 2008 at 10:46 am

    Are you saying the Democrats after Hillary have no chance to win untill Chelsea decides to run?

    Don’t worry, Chelsea Clinton will be 35 in 2015, so she will primed and ready to ascend the throne in 2016.

    If not, there’s always Roger Clinton.
    I mean, if the Bushes could pick Georgie Bush Jr, then surely there’s nothing wrong with Roger being president until Chelsea is ready?

  45. 45.

    Warren Terra

    August 25, 2008 at 10:46 am

    I don’t know where you get the idea that Sen. Clinton has done everything she can to back Obama. She’s made a half-dozen appearances, and said the right things at them, and released her delegates. And that’s all good, and I’m not convinced that she is actively plotting to undermine Obama. But, still, there are a bunch of obvious warning signs that she’s not exactly exerting herself to beat McCain:

    1) Bill Clinton. He hasn’t done anything publicly to support Obama. Indeed, we keep on getting these secondhand reports that he’s bitter, and badmouthing Obama behind his back.

    2) Speaking of secondhand reports, there’s Clinton’s closest adherents, especially those with contracts to be pundits on television – Wolfson, Begala, Carville, etcetera. These people appear frequently to offer analysis and insight, and get asked about tension between Clinton supporters and Obama every time. And when asked they generally encourage the meme. Clinton’s staff leaked like a sieve during the campaign, and they’re still doing it now – and what they’re leaking is resentment of Obama, not a desire to unify and beat McCain. If Clinton wanted to badly enough, she could get these people in line.

    3) We are getting a bunch of crap, including from known Clinton adherents like Begala, that Clinton’s not having been vetted was one of those famous “slaps in the face”. And yet Clinton actively refused to make the disclosures necessary in vetting a veep nominee. She did this weeks if not months ago – and yet she allowed her people to froth at the mouth about how she must be the veep nominee, and didn’t take her own name publically out of consideration.

    4) Clinton hasn’t done all she could to support Obama in public: she hasn’t taken the message where it counts, i.e. to the talking heads. Sure, she’s done a few rallies, and that’s good. But surely the Sunday shows would kill to have Clinton on to discuss the primary campaign and the coming general election – and Clinton could seize the opportunity to stuff party unity down the throats of those talking heads. Instead, Clinton has done some pro-forma speeches and avoided interviews. If I were an egomaniacal pundit and I knew that Clinton refused to explain to my face or my competitors’ faces why she was fully behind Obama, I might doubt her sincerity.

  46. 46.

    GSD

    August 25, 2008 at 10:46 am

    Mourning Joke.

    -GSD

  47. 47.

    smiley

    August 25, 2008 at 10:52 am

    are going to hand America over for an Obama-Pelosi-Reid Liberal Lovefest?

    I guess we’ll see in November, won’t we?

    My response to those rabid Clinton Haters who encourage me to leave the Democratic party if I’m not voting for the DNC’s hand-picked Empty Suit is:
    Good riddance, losers!

    As I’ve said before, I’ve been having fun recently reading the comments over at TalkLeft. It’s interesting how frequently certain phrases, talking points if you will, show up (these three are only the tip of the iceberg).

    Raise your hands: How many of you rabid Clinton Haters defended President Clinton during the impeachment brouhaha. [raises hand]

  48. 48.

    zack

    August 25, 2008 at 10:53 am

    Rush Limbaugh, long-time family friend of the Clintons and well-known feminist, is extremely upset at how Hillary was “dissed.”

    America’s Anchorman and Chelsea’s godfather opines:

    Hey, ladies, those of you in the Hillary camp, she wasn’t even vetted! Caroline Kennedy never talked to her. They didn’t ask for any donors from the Clinton library. She wasn’t even considered as a vice presidential running mate. She wasn’t even given the thought of one second in a day. This is no way to treat the Clintons.

    When Obama pisses off someone close to the Clintons like El Rushbo you know he’s gone too far. Rush says it is “unconscionable, this show of disrespect.”

    I’m sure the PUMAs are grateful to have America’s favorite radio talk show host promoting their talking points.

    Too bad Jerry Falwell is dead. I’m sure the preacher who promoted The Cllnton Chonicles would be outraged by how Hillary was treated too.

    You can almost hear him.

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_082208/content/01125106.html.guest.html

  49. 49.

    Stooleo

    August 25, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    More rat fucking.

  50. 50.

    kc

    August 25, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    I wish all those senior Obama supporters and senior veterans of the Clinton campaign would just SHUT THE FUCK UP, already.

    What are they trying to do, elect John McCain? Jesus, people! Stop airing your got-damn laundry to the press!

  51. 51.

    Tsulagi

    August 25, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    this story is being stoked and kept alive by the media who cannot let go of the clintons.

    Yep.

    Obama made a huge mistake not picking Hillary.

    Nope.

    Guilty white liberals and Blacks voted for Obama mainly because he was (half) Black, and now they look down on women who want Hillary mainly because she is a woman.

    Blanket bullshit. F for concern troll effort and quality.

    I’d maybe put up a slightly lengthier analytical comment, but likely wouldn’t have time before the site overlord, WordPress Error, kicked me to the curb.

  52. 52.

    Church Lady

    August 25, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    I think John is correct. Hillary is doing what she can to support Obama. What some seem to forget is that her campaigning for him is tightly controlled by his campaign. It’s not like she is free to go where she wants, when she wants. Surrogates appearances on the Sunday shows are controlled by the respective campaigns, as are their talking points.

    My husband summed it up correctly – the media aren’t reporting news, they are trying to make news.

  53. 53.

    Tlaloc

    August 25, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    A prominent Obama backer said some of Clinton’s lieutentants negotiating with the Obama team are “bitter enders” who presume that, rather than the Clintons reconciling themselves to Obama’s victory, it is up to Obama to accommodate them.

    In fact, some senior veterans of Clinton’s presidential campaign do believe this.

    Of course they believe that since that’s the way every other presidential primary has been.

    Look do you think Reagan picked pappy Bush in 1980 because they were best buds? No. He did it as an outreach to pull in the parts of the party that had supported Bush. Do you think McCain’s swerve to the right is an accident? Of course not. He’s tried to accomodate the republicans who supported thompson/romney/guiliani/huckabee (which maybe accounts for the schizophrenic behavior of his since winning the primary).

    This is how it works. The candidates fight, one wins, and then if they aren’t total fucking retards, they reach out to the loser’s supporters to keep them on board with the party.

    Obama has been reaching out a bit, but not very well. He’s swerved toward the center in the most unfortunate ways (e.g. telcom immunity). Picking Biden was surely intended to mollify Clinton supporters to a degree, although a female VP probably would have worked better. At least Obama appears to be trying though. It seems more like it is the idiocy of some of his supporters, who seem to imagine that winning a primary is akin to sacking a medieval city, that seem to be the problem.

  54. 54.

    jake

    August 25, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    A prominent Obama backer said some of Clinton’s lieutentants negotiating with the Obama team are “bitter enders”

    WHOOP! WHOOP! RED ALERT, RED ALERT! USE OF THE B WORD DETECTED! COMMENCE OPERATION HOLD YOUR BREATH TIL YOU TURN BLUE!

    “He has not fully reconciled,” said one political operative close to the Clintons, “and he has not demonstrated that he accepts the Clintons and the Clinton wing of the party.”

    When asked for examples the P.O. cited Obama’s failure to bring the Clintons flowers or sing them love songs. Further, Obama never talks to them any more when he comes through the door at the end of the day.

    I really. REALLY hate the fact that anonymous quotes are the rule, rather than the exception.

  55. 55.

    Dennis - SGMM

    August 25, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    Good riddance, losers!

    So here’s a person who, if she cannot bring herself to vote for Obama, can’t even bring herself to vote against McCain, a man who believes that a woman must bear the offspring of her rapist, and who would appoint Supreme court judges bound and determined to overturn Roe v Wade because cutting off your nose to spite your face is what real winners always do. If Obama does not win Jan, the loss will be hung around the neck of Hillary Clinton and people like you – whether that’s true or not. She’ll join that special place in the Democratic pantheon already occupied by Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller. And, fair or not, I’ll contribute to any Democrat who challenges her for her Senate seat.

    I voted for Bill Clinton in 92 and 96. He got my vote the second time because even though he was a disappointment he was still better than a Republican.

  56. 56.

    Echo without Bunnies or Men

    August 25, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    Fuck the Clintons. This convention is not about them, but they don’t know it yet. They are worse than Republicans when it comes to acting like a 5 year old sore loser.

    Every last ounce of respect, however flimsy, I ever had for those two is now gone daddy gone, the love is gone. Gone away.

    The DLC-Clinton era is OVER finally.

  57. 57.

    Delia

    August 25, 2008 at 4:57 pm

    Stooleo Says:

    More rat fucking.

    Here’s some more on the lovely Debra from Steve Benen

    Key quote:

    THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND…. We talked earlier about Wisconsin nurse Debra Bartoshevich, a former Clinton delegate who is now appearing in McCain campaign ads. It’s hard not to wonder what on earth she’s thinking.

    This afternoon, however, we actually got a better sense of the answer. At a Denver press conference this afternoon organized by Republicans, Bartoschevich, who claims to be a pro-choice Democrat, was asked about her concerns about reproductive rights under another pro-life Republican president.

    “Going back to 1999, John McCain did an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle saying that overturning Roe v. Wade would not make any sense, because then women would have to have illegal abortions,” Bartoschevich said.

    This is surprisingly helpful. I’ve wondered why a pro-choice Democrat who cares about women’s rights would even consider a conservative Republican with an abysmal record on women’s rights. It turns out, the answer is pretty straightforward: she’s terribly confused.

    McCain did, in fact, say in 1999, that he “would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade.” It was a reversal from his previous position, and soon after, McCain reversed right back, denounced Roe, vowed to overturn it, and assured voters he would lead an exclusively pro-life administration, arguably slightly to the right of Bush/Cheney.

  58. 58.

    Bob In Pacifica

    August 25, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    Look do you think Reagan picked pappy Bush in 1980 because they were best buds? No. He did it as an outreach to pull in the parts of the party that had supported Bush.

    The CIA’s people (Butterfield, Hunt and the Plumbers, Woodward et al) sank Nixon. Ford was a CIA ally in Congress and on the Warren Commission but could not overcome the negative press that sank Nixon. In 1980 Reagan did not really have to worry about the voters who supported Bush (a fairly insignificant and not terribly motivated bloc) in order to get the nomination, but did have to worry about Bush’s other constituency. Reagan had worked with the Crusade For Freedom, an anti-Communist fundraising outfit that was actually a CIA front, back in the fifties, so he wasn’t a virgin to the CIA.

    So you could say that the winning ticket has had a CIA employee or the son of a CIA Director since 1980, with the exception of Bill Clinton.

    Except that Clinton was Governor of Arkansas during the time that all that cocaine came into Mena from Latin America, for example.

  59. 59.

    Svensker

    August 25, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    I am so damn sick of the Clintons.

    How Hillary “I Married My Way to Success” Clinton ever became a symbol of the feminist struggle, I’ll never understand. She’s a bright woman with a lot of ambition, who saw a way to power through Bill. You might admire her for having a good eye for the main chance, but other than that, what’s to admire about her?

    Feingold would have been my pick and BHO is a far cry from Feingold. But BHO is a Democrat and NOT A REPUBLICAN, and I’m supporting him. The rest of y’all who want to elect ANOTHER REPUBLICAN just go away. Sheesh.

  60. 60.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    August 25, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    My response to those rabid Clinton Haters who encourage me to leave the Democratic party if I’m not voting for the DNC’s hand-picked Empty Suit is:

    Actually, it was Hillary who told *us* not to vote for her. “If you don’t like my support for the war, vote for someone else” etc.

    And if you are seriously thinking about voting for John McCain, you already had one foot and nine toes out the door before anyone “encouraged” you to leave anyway.

  61. 61.

    Joe Max

    August 25, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    Sweet zombie jeebus…

    I just saw Matthews interview a gaggle of alleged PUMAs, (“Clintons for McCain”, proclaimed their banner) outside NBC’s studio in Denver. Utterly pathetic. They went on about Obama being a closet Muslim, how they have a suit against the Dem party proving Obama is “not qualified” by birth to be a candidate, and when Tweety asked for some evidence, it was “a Congressional report”, which morphed into “a report by a congressional investigator”, which morphed again into “a report by a former congressional investigator”. So Matthews asks, “by who? what’s his name?” and Miss Thang says, “I’m not going to tell you!” Matthews then asks, “ok, working for who?” “I’m not going to tell you,” she says again, with that oh-so saucy flick of her head. It was so embarrassing that I was embarrassed that they weren’t embarrassed.

    So a young Obama supporter tried to appeal to them as if they actually were Democrats (highly unlikely) and quoted Clinton’s “I’m Hillary Clinton and I do not approve this message” to them, but she may as well have been talking to a fencepost – except that she was the voice of sanity that the TV audience got to hear, and Matthews agreed.

    These PUMAs looked like such idiots that even Tweety had to say, “you can see and hear insanity when it’s available to you.”

    Argh, it forced me to think, “thanks Tweety!” I feel so dirty…

    I hope MSNBC has the clip up soon, it’s comedy gold.

  62. 62.

    D-Chance.

    August 25, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    Laura W Says:
    I will never have been more ashamed of (and frightened of) my country if McCain wins, and I truly think the fear and despair will be overwhelming to me. I’ll have to make a major change to find a reason to keep living…

    ROTFLMAO~!

    DrrrrrrrrrrrrrAH-ma, mamma!

    Cole, you want to know why every other disenfranchised Republican doesn’t jump onto the Good Ship Democratic Party like you did? It’s because that vessel is a ship of fools!

    Reality-base community, my ass…

  63. 63.

    D-Chance.

    August 25, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    Laura W Says:
    I will never have been more ashamed of (and frightened of) my country if McCain wins, and I truly think the fear and despair will be overwhelming to me. I’ll have to make a major change to find a reason to keep living…

    ROTFLMAO~!

    DrrrrrrrrrrrrrAH-ma, mamma!

    Cole, you want to know why every other disenfranchised Republican doesn’t jump onto the Good Ship Democratic Party like you did? It’s because that vessel is a ship of fools!

    Reality-based community, my ass…

  64. 64.

    Conservatively Liberal

    August 25, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    I hope MSNBC has the clip up soon, it’s comedy gold.

    I saw that bit with the PUMA’s and Matthews, and they came across as complete fools. The ‘congressional investigation’ bit was absolute foolishness but you can bet their PUMA’s sisters will be purring with delight that they got some airtime.

    Regrettably, I believe that the PUMA’s are insuring that it will be a cold day in hell before another female candidate for the presidency is ever seriously considered in the future. My memory of this election cycle is going to be a bunch of unreasonable women foaming at the mouth because their girl wasn’t given the spot. People are going to remember this crap and if there is a ‘next time’, you can bet that they are going to run away from that female candidate to avoid a repeat of this stupid PUMA shit.

    I think someone needs to make some ‘Obama/Biden ’08’ pacifiers and pass them out to Hillary’s dead-enders. I have backed losing candidates in the past, and I never went around whining about it and demanding that the winner kowtows to me to get my vote. What in the FUCK makes these idiots think that they are so special? Because it is a Clinton that they were backing, so they feel they are owed something?

    In the end, if these morans quit the party and vote for McCain, the Democratic party will be stronger for it. That and it will have a lot fewer racists in it. Good.

  65. 65.

    Brachiator

    August 25, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    Tlaloc Says:

    A prominent Obama backer said some of Clinton’s lieutentants negotiating with the Obama team are “bitter enders” who presume that, rather than the Clintons reconciling themselves to Obama’s victory, it is up to Obama to accommodate them.

    In fact, some senior veterans of Clinton’s presidential campaign do believe this.

    Of course they believe that since that’s the way every other presidential primary has been.

    This is absolutely false. You don’t even have to go back very deep in history for this.

    In the 1936 election, FDR had to deftly work around incipient Dixiecrats who were upset that Roosevelt was being too accomodating to blacks. He also had to negate those elitist Democrats who believed in class war and thought that FDR was “betraying his class.”

    And by the way, in the 1936 election the Republican candidate Alf Landon was the Straight Talk Express candidate to FDR’s aloof elitist. Landon and the Republicans lost in a landslide.

    Harry Truman similarly had to blunt the efforts of those Democrats who didn’t have faith in him, thought he was too much of a lightweight. He did not go out of his way to reach out to people who he felt was against him.

    And on the Republican side, the 1952 GOP convention was as bitter as this current Democratic Convention might turn out to be (with due credit to Wikipedia):

    However, the mood at the convention was one of the most bitter and emotional in American history; in one speech Senator Everett Dirksen of Illinois, a [Robert] Taft supporter, pointed at Governor Dewey on the convention floor and accused him of leading the Republicans “down the road to defeat”, and mixed boos and cheers rang out from the delegates. In the end Eisenhower took the nomination on the first ballot; to heal the wounds caused by the battle he went to Taft’s hotel suite and met with him.

    Now, although, Ike met with Taft, he did not go out of his way to accomodate him. On the other hand, Taft did go out of his way to accomodate the president.

    Following Eisenhower’s election and the GOP takeover of Congress, Taft served as Senate Majority Leader in 1953, and he strongly supported Eisenhower’s domestic proposals. He worked hard to assist the inexperienced new officials of the administration. He even tried–with little success–to curb the excesses of red-baiting U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy. By April the President and Taft were friends and golfing companions, and Taft was praising his former adversary. Defeat in 1952, it seemed, had softened Taft. No longer burdened by presidential ambitions, he had become less partisan, less abrasive, and more conciliatory; during this time he was widely regarded as the most powerful man in Congress.

    Senator Clinton might learn something from this.

    This is how it works. The candidates fight, one wins, and then if they aren’t total fucking retards, they reach out to the loser’s supporters to keep them on board with the party.

    The problem her is that the most vehement Clinton supporters irrationally keep looking for new reasons to feel insulted. None of their reasons for possibly bolting make a damn bit of sense.

    Obama has been reaching out a bit, but not very well. He’s swerved toward the center in the most unfortunate ways (e.g. telcom immunity).

    Wrong again. The Democratic Party leadership (Pelosi, et al) signaled their retreat on this. Had Obama defied them, it might have cost him the nomination.

    Picking Biden was surely intended to mollify Clinton supporters to a degree, although a female VP probably would have worked better.

    Nope. The most strident Clinton supporters made clear their feeling that they would look at Obama’s selection of any woman not named Hillary Clinton as a slap in the face.

    At least Obama appears to be trying though. It seems more like it is the idiocy of some of his supporters, who seem to imagine that winning a primary is akin to sacking a medieval city, that seem to be the problem.

    No, it is more like Clinton supporters believe that somehow the Democratic Party became a parliamentary type of organization in which those who are defeated must be allocated some seats in the government that is formed by the prime minister.

    Worse, like some of the ancient infighting among claimaints to the British crown, Clinton supporters are trying to keep alive her claim as heir presumptive to the presidency of the United States, even if it costs the Democrats the 2008 election. This is an incredibly foolish, narcissistic, and self-defeating strategy.

  66. 66.

    Laura W

    August 25, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    D-Chance. Says:

    ROTFLMAO~!

    DrrrrrrrrrrrrrAH-ma, mamma!

    Cole, you want to know why every other disenfranchised Republican doesn’t jump onto the Good Ship Democratic Party like you did? It’s because that vessel is a ship of fools!

    Joooooooooooohn! I think he just slapped me in the FACE!
    No drama, My Friend. Straight up truth. Something you are probably unfamiliar with.

  67. 67.

    Mandy

    August 25, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    Of course, had Hillary “done everything she could,” she would have dropped out in March — or April — or May; she woulod have concede straight out instead of taking a few days’ she would not have tried to hold up Obama ot pay her narcissitically induced debt; she would have been working on her disgruntled followers to get on board; she would veen now be leading; and she would have told Bill to put a plug in it. But with the Clintons, it always is all about them.

  68. 68.

    Jay B.

    August 25, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    Shorter D-Chance: Why choose the lesser evil when you can get the real thing uncut?

  69. 69.

    harlana pepper

    August 25, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    Hang in there, Laura W! :^D

  70. 70.

    Tlaloc

    August 25, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    You don’t even have to go back very deep in history for this.

    In the 1936 election…

    In my day we trudged 16 miles through the snow to get ice cream when it was 30 below, uphill both ways!

    Sorry, but saying you don’t have to go back far then going back 72 years just struck me as a little funny.

  71. 71.

    Corner Stone

    August 25, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    I will say this now. Hillary Clinton will never be President. If Obama loses, no matter what she does to help him/hurt him, she will be blamed and will never, ever, win the nomination in 2012.

    Yeah, mainly because of pathetic Republican ratfuckers like you. You’ve maintained this entire primary that if Obama lost it would be HRC’s fault. I’m sure it has absolutely nothing to do with his rightward lurch, his appeals to faithdom. or his generally not giving a shit about the Democratic base. Nope. HRC didn’t campaign daily for BHO, didn’t slash her wrists and write BHO 4-EVAH on the convention walls in Denver.
    As for the rest of you sill fucks – what about “It’s not about Hillary” can you not understand? Why should she put any effort at all toward *convincing* anyone to vote for Obama when he has raised the tiniest godlike finger to convince them himself?
    Elections are about asking people to vote for you. “I want your vote”. “You matter to me. Your vote is important and I want you to vote for me.”
    How fucking hard is that? Must be pretty damned hard since Obama hasn’t done one ounce of it. This isn’t about a third party telling someone what to do. It’s a candidate who has gone out of his way to piss off D base voters and never once just say, “I want your vote. Here’s what I believe in, please vote for me.”
    Jackasses.

  72. 72.

    liberal

    August 25, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    KRK wrote,

    What in POW’s name …

    God damn–or should I say “POW damn”?–that’s funny!

  73. 73.

    nightjar

    August 25, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    Here come the dead ender trolls. Bookends Tlalac and Corner Stone.

    Why should she put any effort at all toward convincing anyone to vote for Obama when he has raised the tiniest godlike finger to convince them himself?
    Elections are about asking people to vote for you. “I want your vote”. “You matter to me. Your vote is important and I want you to vote for me.”

    Bald faced lie. Obama has put out nothing but sweet talk to you self important shitheads. He will not, and I will not kiss your sorry whiny asses for votes. You think you’re putting the hurt on Obama, your not genius, your ratfucking the country, the dem party, and your miserable selves.

  74. 74.

    liberal

    August 25, 2008 at 7:00 pm

    Dennis – SGMM wrote,

    …a man who believes that a woman must bear the offspring of her rapist…

    HEY–that’s my line!

    :-)

  75. 75.

    Tsulagi

    August 25, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    Shorter D-Chance: Why choose the lesser evil when you can get the real thing uncut?

    Okay, now that was uncalled for. Uncut? Any male Republican can tell you they demand not only to get the real thing, but also cut from their party whips like Matty Sanchez and Jeff Gannon.

    Foley, Haggard, WideStance, and the rest of boyz in the Party of Serious Adults will eagerly verify.

  76. 76.

    Tlaloc

    August 25, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    Here come the dead ender trolls. Bookends Tlalac and Corner Stone.

    Good to see your binary filter is still switched on. I don’t suppose it makes any difference to you that Corner Stone and I are making very different arguments?

    Nope, didn’t think so.

    It isn’t your opinion and so it is automatically bad. Why is it some Obama supporters seem just so eager to pull the bullshit “if you aren’t with me you are against me” fallacy?

  77. 77.

    Corner Stone

    August 25, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    Bald faced lie. Obama has put out nothing but sweet talk to you self important shitheads. He will not, and I will not kiss your sorry whiny asses for votes. You think you’re putting the hurt on Obama, your not genius, your ratfucking the country, the dem party, and your miserable selves.

    The fuck he has. Nobody has asked you to do a goddamned thing you stupider than stupid fuck. I’m not delusional like yourself. It’s obvious Obama and the party of Brazile don’t want *my* (a D voter for 20 years) vote. That’s what’s fucking obvious. There’s a difference between saying all the right things and just straight asking for a vote. Of course BHO isn’t even bothering to *say* the right things because he knows ignorant fucks like yourself will just fall in lockstep because he’s so damn awesome. My friends, the awesomeness just reeks.
    Just because you keep repeating shit that ain’t true doesn’t make it true. You can suck it little man.

  78. 78.

    liberal

    August 25, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    D-Chance wrote,

    Cole, you want to know why every other disenfranchised Republican doesn’t jump onto the Good Ship Democratic Party like you did? It’s because that vessel is a ship of fools!

    Reality-based community, my ass…

    If you really don’t think John “I’m a nutjob, and I want to play with the nuclear football!” McCain isn’t a clear and present danger to our republic, you have your head up that ass.

  79. 79.

    Corner Stone

    August 25, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    You can suck it little man.

    What he said, with extra vitriol.

  80. 80.

    nightjar

    August 25, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    Just because you keep repeating shit that ain’t true doesn’t make it true. You can suck it little man.

    It’s a bad sign when insolent trolls begin to jabber to themselves about themselves. Then blockquote themselves and answer themselves in the third person.

    Corner Stone Says:

    You can suck it little man.

    What he said, with extra vitriol.

    LOL

  81. 81.

    gil mann

    August 25, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    Wow, Corner Stone’s pretty tough, huh?

    When asked for examples the P.O. cited Obama’s failure to bring the Clintons flowers or sing them love songs. Further, Obama never talks to them any more when he comes through the door at the end of the day.

    I’m sick of the whole goddamn thing already, but I’m glad I held off on my self-imposed convention news blackout long enough to read that. Thanks, Jake–it’s like a SLAP IN THE FUNNYBONE.

  82. 82.

    nightjar

    August 25, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    It isn’t your opinion and so it is automatically bad. Why is it some Obama supporters seem just so eager to pull the bullshit “if you aren’t with me you are against me” fallacy?

    You see herein lies the problem. This is not about me, or about you knucklehead. It’s about one thing and only one thing, and that’s getting a democrat in the White House. Now it’s OK! if you don’t want to do that and vote for the republican for whatever reason. That’s your right. But don’t come around with whiny ass shit over Hillary’s honor or getting paid her due crap. It’s not about her either since she lost the primary.

    In other words grow the fuck up!!

  83. 83.

    Tlaloc

    August 25, 2008 at 8:12 pm

    This is not about me, or about you knucklehead. It’s about one thing and only one thing, and that’s getting a democrat in the White House.

    No it isn’t. I have no more interest in electing a bad democrat than I do a bad republican. A person putting a “D” behind their name apparently exercises some talismanic power over your thoughts. Not so much with me.

    Hence your argument fails from the start.

    But don’t come around with whiny ass shit over Hillary’s honor or getting paid her due crap. It’s not about her either since she lost the primary.

    Well since the whole point is party unity and she was far and away the biggest rival to Obama it is somewhat about her.

    See you have this problem where you have stated two goals which happen to be in conflict. The first is that you desperately want to get someone, anyone with a “D” in the white house. Alright, kind of superficial and stupid but okay. The second is that you also want to piss on all the Hillary supporters. The problem being that Hillary supporters are a large part of the dem party and alienating even a fairly small percentage will make goal #1 pretty much impossible.

    So I see your conundrum. Maybe that’s what is making you so pissy.

  84. 84.

    heet

    August 25, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    yes, let it all out. it feels good to free those emotions….

    done? now sack up and keep McCain out of the White House.

  85. 85.

    nightjar

    August 25, 2008 at 9:37 pm

    So I see your conundrum.

    My conundrum is why in God’s name do I bother with fatuous fools like you. Vote for MCcain or not. Vote for Obama or not,or write in HC or not vote. Just phulease quit your insufferable whining like a baby needing to be burped.

  86. 86.

    Chuck Butcher

    August 25, 2008 at 11:05 pm

    colleeniem Says:

    Hey, sorry to OT and thread-jack, but if you read this and can still hardily support McCain, you can have him.
    I say this as a Hillary sympathizer and one who voted for her in NY Senate, twice.

    http://www.newsweek.com/id/154913

    So, the government gets it right? Because they decide a name should go on a secret list my rights should be infringed? Chances are that having publicly called BushCo some rather harsh names, my name has made it onto one of their lists. That should disquaify me?

    They have millions of names on their lists – you propose that all those people belong? Once secretly denied they can go to court??? I would have to go to court, despite being entirely law abiding to fight to get off a list that no one gets off of? You might want to re-think this one.

  87. 87.

    Joe Max

    August 25, 2008 at 11:44 pm

    I just saw Matthews interview a gaggle of alleged PUMAs, (”Clintons for McCain”, proclaimed their banner) outside NBC’s studio in Denver. Utterly pathetic.

    Found it!

    Too bad they cut off the part when Tweety called then insane. It was Christi Atkins, of “donated-money-to-mccain-but-i’m-a-lifelong-democrat” fame.

    What. A. Bitch.

    She told Matthews, “what’s the matter can’t you hear? Maybe you need to clean your ears!” Cool move there, slick! As far as Tweety (and therefore NBC) is concerned, their 15 minutes are up.

    Comedy gold, I’m tellin’ ya.

  88. 88.

    Brachiator

    August 26, 2008 at 12:01 am

    Tlaloc Says:

    Sorry, but saying you don’t have to go back far then going back 72 years just struck me as a little funny.

    Glad you enjoyed it. The larger point, though, is that going back to the period from 1936 to 1960 seems entirely reasonable when you make false and uninformed claims about how “that’s the way every other presidential primary has been” in suggesting that the nominee always seeks to placate losers, ingrates and malcontents within the party.

  89. 89.

    Conservatively Liberal

    August 26, 2008 at 4:55 am

    Corner Stone Dumb as a Rock Says:

    Baaa baaaaa baa baaaa! Moo moooooo moo mmmmoooooo mooo. Oink bark, chirp moo squeal!

    repeat ad nauseam

    Yeah, I find it interesting that Tlaloc and Corner Stone like to show up together. What a pair. They have gone from Hill to shrill, and that is all they have left. Bitter enders, and they are going to milk it for all it is worth (which is nothing, but don’t tell them that). Oh well, every village has its idiots so I guess there is a place here for even these rejects.

    After the convention, it is Obama or McCain and that is it. If these asshats want to strut around and keep trying to remind us how important their vote is and that they are not going to vote for Obama, them we can rightly call them McCain supporters.

    If the foo shits, wear it. These foos not only shit it, they are wearing it too.

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