Three quotes, from the three front page posters here, starting with me, yesterday:
This really is not hard to figure out, as the Republicans are not even trying to be subtle. They intend to get as much as they want in the bill, provide the screeching points for the wingnuttosphere (latest edition- ZOMG ACORN) so they can be whipped up into their usual froth, and then vote against the thing anyway and hope it fails. 2010, baby.
DougJ, last night:
Obviously, Republicans hope that the economy is deep, deep in the shitter in 2010. That’s the only way they get back into power. They can’t stop the stimulus, all they can do is fuck around and try to score a few political points about contraceptives or “Federal Performance Art grant or some such nonsense” and then hope that the thing fails.
At this point, they’re actively rooting for millions of Americans to be out of work. They’re barely even pretending not to.
Tim F., this morning:
If Republicans plan to deliver exactly zero votes for Obama’s stimulus bill, then why does the bill still have compromises in it? Screw them. Put the family planning stuff back in, take the tax cuts out. If we know for sure that passing a crappy bill won’t win any more votes then just pass a better bill. They won’t scream any louder. The political cost won’t be any greater. Also, and pay attention because this is the important part, a better bill is more likely to succeed.
There is literally no longer any reason to weaken the bill with provisions that only exist because otherwise baby Rick Santorum might cry.
And how did that vote on the stimulus bill go this afternoon? As expected:
In a swift victory for President Barack Obama, the Democratic-controlled House approved a historically huge $819 billion stimulus bill Wednesday night with spending increases and tax cuts at the heart of the young administration’s plan to revive a badly ailing economy.
The vote was 244-188, with Republicans unanimous in opposition despite Obama’s frequent pleas for bipartisan support.
Not one Republican vote. If you are surprised, you shouldn’t be.
bobbo
So did Obama really believe he could get bipartisan support? Or did he know how the Republicans would behave and go to the trouble of courting them (and ceding to some of their demands) anyway? Someone help me out here.
Joshua Norton
Anyone who is surprised is awash in misguided fantasies. In the outside world they wouldn’t find anything even vaguely resembling their point of view…outside, say, the furry fan base.
blogenfreude
Spending for the public good makes the baby Rush cry.
Joshua Norton
Obama got his "see, I tried" moment. With pictures to prove it.
Brien Jackson
"Someone help me out here."
My best guess is pretty simple; you’re going to start hearing a lot about how "bi-partisanship cuts both ways," "Republicans didn’t hold up their end of the bargain," etc. and all of the stuff they removed from the bill at Republicans behest is going to get stuck back in during conference.
BFR
I think it’s pretty likely they knew how this would play out – you can read it in the polls/listening to talk radio etc. The GOP base position on this isn’t a secret.
That being said, I’m surprised they didn’t get a single GOP vote. It says to me the GOP as a political movement is in even more trouble than I thought – they can’t even contribute a token amount to government right now given how tightly in control the luddites are.
gopher2b
Too bad it was not based on principle because the stimulus package is a joke. Its too spread out over fifty states and is not specifically targeted at anything in particular (e.g. build high speed rail, nuclear power plants, etc).
Next up: Tarp II
bobbo
I hear you, but I don’t know – how much credit does Obama get for being bi-partisan if he gives it up after two weeks?
D-Chance.
And 288-11 isn’t partisan? Oh, I keep forgetting, "partisan" is when the REPUBLICANS vote party-line… it doesn’t apply to Democrats, does it, Cole? IOKIYAD.
Another $800+ BILLION. This, after that $700 BILLION bailout back in September.
The Democrats have now plunged the country $1,500,000,000,000 farther in debt in just four MONTHS.
That’s right… the Jackasses managed to do in four months what took the Republicans four+ years to do. Congratulations, you managed to fast-track the most poisonous of Bush failures.
But, hey… we’re getting that cool new speed-em-up train in DC now, choo-choo!
The Populist
Did they leave the AMT exemption in there? If so, good move. AMT is the only tax break that affects all Americans, rich and middle class.
Interestingly, if they voted down this bill does that mean I can argue they don’t care if me and my middle class wife will have to pay up the nose in AMT?
DFH no.6
Fascists in lockstep. Whodathunkit?
Goddamn I hope against hope that the Senate Repubs filibuster this.
Please, PLEASE! Do it! You know you want to!
I know God doesn’t love me enough for that to actually happen, but a girl can dream…
John Cole
Umm, I believe it was a Republican President who asked for the 700 billion for TARP.
I am pretty sure I remember a Republican Secretary of the Treasury on his hand and knees in front of Pelosi.
Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse
I am so fucking tired of the scolds who keep pointing angrily at Obama and charge him with being too damn stoopid to figure out that the GOP wasn’t going to play ball. (Not you, bobbo: you asked an honest question rather than just asserting that the man who whupped the Clintons and the GOP in 2008 is actually some naive mouthbreather who really needs to take advice from some anonymous yob on the Net.)
This was win-win. If the Republicans play along, Obama gets a rep as someone who could cow the GOP. If they obstruct, he looks like an honest broker and they look like selfish fools.
I think there’s still a hell of a lot that could be done as stimulus, with transportation and roads HUGE targets that need yet more money, but I can live with the selected concessions if it places Obama and the Dems in more powerful positions so more stimulus bills can pass.
HumboldtBlue
I must say that Obama’s election has had an impact on my congressman (Thompson, Calif. District 1) who not only wholeheartedly supported the bill, but as a leading member of ways and means had a hand in crafting much of the bill.
For those of us in rural areas, our pork comes in the form of improved internet access — better health care — tax breaks and lots and lots of solar power incentives.
Not bad for a Blue Dog.
Lev
Bad move, GOP. Backing this bill that you knew would happen would have cost you zero political capital–in fact, it would have built it up considerably. In the short term, anyway, starting off the term by backing one of Obama’s big bills en masse would have meant that you all would have had more credibility to oppose cap and trade, EFCA, FOCA, what have you, rather than just showing yourselves to be bad faith negotiators.
Obama played this beautifully. He couldn’t have asked for a better result. Now they can get rid of the crap in conference and pass the bill they wanted all along. He’s quite a politician, you know.
gbear
But don’t you see? The guys on the losing side were the bi-partisan ones. Eleven Democrats voted against it. Obama is just being unreasonable…
I agree with Brien @ 5. Put it ALL back in when the bill goes to committee.
The Populist
Obama is using the old Reagan tact. He will listen to the right, talk to them, publicly (VERY PUBLIC – shoot he walked through the halls of congress to make his point!) meet with them to sell his agenda. Keep this in mind folks, this guy has a plan. The plan goes a little something like this…
If they keep fighting him, the public sees a man who is trying his best to work with everybody. They see a GOP that won’t bow to any compromise, even when they AGREE to things. Obama will have the capital to start beating them down as uncooperative if things don’t improve.
The GOP is stupid if they think they will get the moderate and unemployed running to support their view. It ain’t happening and only reinforces the view that the GOP cares not one wit about average Americans. If they cared about budgets, they would have said no to Bush a lot more often than they did.
John Cole
By the way, the thing I love most about D-Chance’s little outburst is that nowhere on the internet is there any republican reaction saying this will be bad/good/neutral for economic recovery, it is all about “This is good for the GOP they stuck together.”
Break out the big foam GOP finger and wave it proud, D-Chance:
USA! USA! GO Brewers!GOP! GOP!gopher2b
@HumboldtBlue:
Has the economy gone down the crapper in rural areas? I’m serious. Has it?
MikeJ
I would spent all of the money in 28 particular states adding up to 365 electoral votes. Fortunately, Obama isn’t as much of a hothead as I am. He didn’t even add in the paltry amount I thought we needed for reëducation camps in the red states.
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist
@John Cole: Umm, I believe it was a Republican President who asked for the 700 billion for TARP.
Nope. There hasn’t been a Republican president since Reagan, which is why things are such a mess now.
dbrown
@D-Chance.: Dick head troll – the shit you and the repub-a-thugs eat does not need to be vomited up here; go back and get ass fucked by your boy cheney and continue to eat your shit asshole but spew it else where.
Dave C
This town deserves a better class of wingnut.
Polish the Guillotines
Game, set, match: Obama.
These GOP knuckleheads represent districts that are in for some (more) serious hurt economically. When their constituents are getting laid off en masse in the next few months it’ll be popcorn and soda time watching them tap-dance around this vote.
HumboldtBlue
@gopher2b:
Oh good Lord yes. In the last six months alone we’ve lost more than 300 highly skilled well paid jobs here in HumCo.
We’ve seen three excellent light industry businesses locate to either Oregon or Washington, our fishing industry is hanging on by a thread and logging and forestry are long dead.
When you next hit the gas station, add 50 cents to whatever you’re paying, that’s our normal price. We can’t keep doctors or nurses. We have a desperate need for skilled vocational workers and innovative business ideas.
dbrown
@Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist: Fuck head – your are a total stupid fuck since your ass-licking boy bushwhack is a repub-a-thug no matter what shit you continue to spew here. Like the rest of you trolls, eat your shit and spew it else where.
Polish the Guillotines
@Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist:
Fixed.
gopher2b
@John Cole:
Tru dat. I so would have preferred a counter-proposal that contained real projects. I’m fearful that "education modernization" will quickly turn into raises for shitty teachers and infrastructure will mean adding four more managers to the road crew. But, I’m from Chicago so that is the root of my cyncism.
Re: the GOP’s "plan": I fail to see how tax breaks help in this environment when, ah…no one is making money and you only pay taxes on profits.
Brien Jackson
Being the guy at the podium in the WHBR goes a long way.
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist
@dbrown: Relax, buckaroo. I was joking.
…if you were too, pardon. I get lost when things get too meta.
DFH no.6
Hey, D-Chance, you cute little neo-Hooverite you. I know you wingnuts have a very difficult time with reality and facts ‘n’ such, but really — "IOKIYAD"?
Dearie, there is no such thing, never has been. It’s IOKIYAR. That’s the real world, baby, more’s the pity.
John Cole
Does anyone know what Dick Armey said on Hardball that had Bob Herbert so pissed off?
gopher2b
@HumboldtBlue:
That sucks. I figured since you guys don’t really get any benefits out of the "ups" you wouldn’t get hit so hard on the "downs." I suppose there are no safe harbors right now.
debrazza
You know, I think the Republicans screwed up here. The Dems did too, but the Republicans worse. Because by voting 100% against the bill, they are showing that their opposition is not based on ideology, but just on plain politics. They would have been better off with having a couple guys voting for it just to show that it is not a partisan issue, but still playing the partisan game. Instead, this just looks ridiculous and more like a stunt than anything else. Obama asked them to be serious for one minute, but they are still playing games. I think Obama is probably used to dealing with obstinate children, I don’t think the Republicans thought this through all that well. Because the more they do this, the it hurts their credibility and the more easy it will be for Obama to ignore them in the future. It reminds me of the Clinton campaign, they are playing to win the daily news cycle, Obama is strategically working towards a result. They don’t get it.
Darius
I’m not surprised, and I doubt Obama’s surprised, either. At least now he can say he tried.
jnfr
@John Cole:
Definitely. The Republican operative who was on 1600 Pensylvania Ave (MSNBC) when the news of the vote came in said exactly that. This is great! The Republicans stuck together. Our leadership is more effective than anyone thought! We made the Democrats give up stuff and gave them nothing back!
They have no real ideas, they don’t care about policy or the well-being of this country. They just want to tromp over other people and indulge their sense of personal superiority.
The Populist
And 288-11 isn’t partisan? Oh, I keep forgetting, "partisan" is when the REPUBLICANS vote party-line… it doesn’t apply to Democrats, does it, Cole? IOKIYAD.
Yep, your friends on the right sure did vote party line when they squandered the Clinton surplus and gave their rich buddies tax cuts that put us into this mess. Yep, all this deregulation is good right? Explain how that is?
Another $800+ BILLION. This, after that $700 BILLION bailout back in September.
Hmmm, who proposed the 700 BILLION without strings I might add. That’s right, Bush. BTW – had they just given that money to the people who needed to re-negotiate their loans the banks wouldn’t have taken this money and blown it on things that they shouldn’t have, now would they?
The Democrats have now plunged the country $1,500,000,000,000 farther in debt in just four MONTHS.
Typical GOP first-er. Uhhhh, BUSH and his buds in congress proposed the first "bail out" or did you forget this? Again, had YOU people spoken up sooner instead of allowing tax cuts in a time of war (and a war that NEVER needed to be fought) maybe you’d have a point, but had you folks LIVED UP to the party mantra of being "conservative" in the first place maybe we would be much better off. I love rubes who put party first because they are told to hate others they disagree with.
That’s right… the Jackasses managed to do in four months what took the Republicans four+ years to do. Congratulations, you managed to fast-track the most poisonous of Bush failures.
Uhhh, who put us here? Certainly not the cowtowing left who gave Bush many of the things he wanted. Funny how you fail to attack your own party as the source of this mess.
But, hey… we’re getting that cool new speed-em-up train in DC now, choo-choo!
Do you understand how infrastructure projects work? Oh yes, Uncle Rush is your hero so let me break it to you…infrastructure for projects that make sense means jobs. Jobs mean economic activity. Apparently your love of trickle down economics failed when we gave your GOP cronies those wonderful tax cuts. Yep, tax cuts. The thing that was supposed to pay for itself by 2010 (right?).
Go away until you find a brain.
Stevenovitch
I don’t understand why republicans think it will be good for them if the economy is in the shitter in 2010. The economy was still in the shitter during FDR’s first re-election and he won handily.
Sure they might be mad at the Dems for not making progress but it’s not likely that they’re suddenly going to forget what brand of retard screwed the pooch either.
Who knows how pissed the electorate will be if they also notice that the republican strategy has been to keep the economy depressed.
The Populist
They have no real ideas, they don’t care about policy or the well-being of this country. They just want to tromp over other people and indulge their sense of personal superiority.
And soon the rubes who vote for them will wake up realizing that they were lied to. The right will never abolish abortion, the left aren’t planning to take their guns and homosexuals aren’t gonna convert their children. The dems aren’t gonna take their bibles either. Yep, these rubes are gonna have to wake up very soon and I would hate to be around when it happens.
jnfr
@John Cole:
I think that it was this (from TPM):
Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey (R-TX) revealed more of himself than anyone cared to see, at the expense of Salon’s Joan Walsh, this evening on "Hardball." In a debate with Walsh over tax policy, Armey let loose with this chauvinistic gem: "I am so damn glad that you can never be my wife cause I surely wouldn’t have to listen to that prattle from you every day."
Joey Maloney
Re-fixt.
The Populist
I bet D-Chance is some angry armchair warrior who loves the GOP because he was told by his daddy that liberals are bad. Funny thing is his daddy never could elaborate on why except to push Rush and Hannity on his kids.
Yep, D-Chance is angry because he’s most likely out of work and pissed that the evil black President took his job away. Rush told him that so it must be true.
AnneLaurie
Nonono — in RedFaceState World, keeping the GOP voting bloc intact proves that Rethugs are Strong&Manly(tm) unlike us reality-based pansies who think that millions of our suffering fellow citizens’ jobs, homes, and lives are more important than Keeping-the-Faith(tm), eleventy-one!
I guarantee that Dean Broder, Bobo Brooks, MoDo, or one of their fellow Media Village Idiots will be praising the Republican’s "unity" and explaining how this is bad news for Democrats within the next dead-tree news cycle, if not earlier.
And it wouldn’t surprise me if Newt Gingrich (cf, ‘I shut down the whole federal government ‘cuz Clinton snubbed me on AF1’) was brought in as a guest contributor to explain that This is GREAT for the Republicans!
gbear
John,
gopher2b
@jnfr:
Leadership is not keeping everyone in line. It’s turning back to your constituents and saying: "We’re in a big mess and the only way out is to borrow against the future. If we don’t, this economy will, at best, move sideways for years. At worst, it could enter a death spiral. Now, if we spend the money wisely by building 10 nuclear power plants, 100 wind farms (including 1 off the coast of Ted Kennedy’s house and another off the coast of Barbara Streisand’s), and the biggest mother fucker solar power plant you’ve ever seen in the Mojave desert, it will pay dividends for generations. We’re also going to build a state of the art high speed rail that will get you from DC to Boston in 4 hours. LA to San Fran in 5 and can transport good across the country so fast your head will spin. We know you prefer tax cuts but you’re broke and not paying taxes. In other words, 25% x 0 = 0. If this works, and we get back to something that looks like a decent economy, and you start paying taxes again. Then we will talk about tax cuts" etc, etc, etc.
Taking it on the chin from Limbaugh and Hannity for "spending" is leadership. Going on those shows and getting those idiots to defend being against windfarms and nuclear plants is leadership. Assholes.
HumboldtBlue
As someone commented over at RumpRoast …
In the episode of Family Guy where Peter becomes a cigarette lobbyist, he meets Dick Armey and makes fun of his name, asking if his wife’s name was “Vagina Coastguard.”
Laura W
@jnfr: It was jaw-dropping wow.
The Populist
Anne,
Good point. It’s a manly thing to go after touchy feely liberalism. Never mind that America was FOUNDED on core liberal principles.
Funny, I use that argument and get all kinds of evil responses from righties. They think by saying liberal principles I am talking about modern liberal aka Democrats. Yet, you explain to these rubes that liberal principles include such radical ideals as right to privacy, right to a lawyer, right to face an accuser in court and many other rights.
Funny how Limpbaugh and their ilk hate the ACLU yet I love how the organization defends these scumbags whenever they face issues that are at odds with their rights as laid out in our LIBERAL constitution.
LOL on them.
Brick Oven Bill
I was able to find a government site with the Bill categories. But none of the links work, at least on my computer, so I can’t read it. It would be nice for us to be able to read the legislation unfiltered by the opinion heads.
I wrote a question to my Senator once, and personally presented it to the Regional Representative. A month later, a form letter on a completely different subject showed up in my mailbox. I took this letter back to the Regional Representative, sat down with him in his office, and we went over my question, and the Senator’s response.
The Regional Representative apologized profusely, and explained how it is the Senator’s goal to be responsive to constituents. Communications are very important, I was assured. He would talk with the Senator and my question would be answered fully. I was very polite. The issue was not controversial.
A month later, the same form letter showed up in the mail. If anyone can find a working link to this legislation, which I believe will be a disaster, I thank you in advance.
Zuzu's Petals
I hope the compromises don’t go out of the bill. Take away any chance they have of pointing to it and saying, "see, we didn’t get anything we asked for."
The Populist
Hey righties, riddle me this:
What exactly do tax cuts actually do to improve things? They don’t move an economy. They won’t get people back into stores or into new jobs. Explain please.
Funny how food stamps and liberal concepts like that designed to help people get back on their feet do more for the economy than "tax breaks". I make over 100K (for now apparently!) a year. I don’t care if I pay a few extra bucks a year as long as it isn’t through the ridiculous AMT.
This hatred of taxes from people whom I KNOW love to use national parks to ride their toys and shoot animals makes zero sense to me.
georgia pig
Obama may end up looking like a fucking genius. These idiots think that they set him up for blame if the stimulus fails. Think again, morons. If it works, they’re SOL. If it fails, it will be because it was too small and included shit meant to placate a bunch of supply side idealogues. They own the payment book, and they don’t even get to drive the car. May SUPERTRAINS be in your future.
jnfr
@gopher2b:
I agree entirely.
Polish the Guillotines
@Joey Maloney: Well played, sir.
The Populist
The only time a congress critter wrote me an authentic letter/email was when my congressman, Brad Sherman, wrote back to tell me how wrong I was on the Iraq war. It was not a form letter. When I wrote Feinstein once, she gave me back a lame form letter.
Boxer wrote me an email (or at least her assistant did in her name) and it was authentic because she intentionally pointed some stuff out to me in my letter to her.
jnfr
@Brick Oven Bill:
I often look at legislation via thomas.loc.gov. I’m not sure why you’re having problems, but just letting you know.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
@John Cole:
Armey was a complete jackass to Joan Walsh. He said a lot but one of the more inflammatory lines was that he was thankful he didn’t have a wife like Walsh because he couldn’t stand to listen to her "prattle".
kay
@gopher2b:
There are some really useful, immediate provisions that Republicans just voted against. Like extending unemployment benefits. And Medicare funding. That goes to states. States can’t run deficits. Those things have to be paid for. States can BORROW from the feds. Was that the GOP plan?
Is that what you meant by "to the 50 states"? I’d suggest those with a GOP governor ask him or her how Republicans planned to pay for those crucial items, since Republicans voted against them.
Patrick
Does anyone think the fact that the House Repubs are so anti makes it tougher on non-Southern Repub Senators to oppose things? Since the Dems don’t ever need a House Repub, this could be a great dynamic for Obama.
It is amazing the effect Obama has on his opposition. He just does his thing, never gets phased, and his opposition goes insane. First Clinton. Then McCain. Now the House GOP. Even Putin and Al Qaeda are showing signs of going insane in reaction to Obama.
Polish the Guillotines
@The Populist:
I’ve got a collection of Feinstein form letters. The best was when she told me how Colin Powell’s UN Dog ‘n’ Pony Warapalooza testimony was teh awesome.
I contacted Tauscher about news that the military was censoring lefty blogs. She (or her office) forwarded the issue to the DOD, who sent me a letter.
Quaker in a Basement
Meanwhile, over at Redstate:
Twenty-two whole dollars?!?
Well no wonder the GOP caucus held the line. Fatheaded Erick bought ’em off!
jnfr
@Laura W:
Walsh’s comeback was great though :)
HumboldtBlue
90 bill for infrastructure … 145 bill to cut taxes for working families (whoever they are, I figure most are working, but it’s still 95 percent) … 20 bill in targeted tax cuts for both large and small biz to spur job growth … 41 bill for local school districts for facility upgrade and repair … 63 bill for food stamps and unemployment bennies (Cali desperately needs this) … 73 bill in tax incentives for ways to get off foreign oil, develop renewal energy etc … 6 bill for expanded internet access (up here, that means more money for one good thing Arnie did and that’s internet-linked doctor and nursing services that can be done remotely) ….
for more also try a search for ways and means or the speakers website
gopher2b
@kay:
No, just scanned the WSJ graphic that showed how much money each state was getting. Per capita, its pretty much the same across the country which strikes me at first blush as not efficient use of the money. My guess is that if this money was being deployed via a thought out and efficient plan, it would not come out like that (for example, California clearly needs disportionately more than everyone else).
And a lot of these states are terribly run (mine for example). There ought to be provisions that require these states to make significant cuts once this economy turns around or they have to pay the money back.
Zuzu's Petals
@John Cole:
Gotcher video right here.
(at about 9:40)
Brian J
The economy is going to be the number one issue for many months to come, so it will be at the forefront of any discussion on, well, anything. The stimulus package was probably the biggest piece of legislation that will be debated in congress that concerns the economy, unless we see another huge bailout package or there’s some radical health care reform pushed forward. The Republicans acted like childish, partisan assholes, literally in unison, so any time there’s a discussion of bipartisanship, anyone on the Democratic side will have this example to bring up. Those on the Republican side will have nothing to top it.
John Cole
@Zuzu’s Petals: Check the newest post. I am ahead of you, bucko.
kay
@The Populist:
They write me back, but it may just be to avoid my siccing the women’s group on them.
"Look, we realize we’re a huge pain in the ass, but, sadly, we are disappointed in you yet again" That’s the overall tone.
I love to use "disappointed". It sounds mommyish. Like they’re children who are a little thick.
JWW
If we need the money now, today! Why is the majority of it proposed for 2010 and 2011. Where does $500,000,000. in sex or no sex create stimulus. Though some of the sex money has already been nixed, what else is in this bill?
Let the people see the bill, let them respond to their representatives.
The Bush bill was so urgent that we had to have it tommorrow. What has it done for us?
kay
@gopher2b:
Right, thanks. I think it is hard to explain to people who are unemployed why their Rep just voted against extending the payments they are living on.
kuvasz
We know the lower boundary condition for holding 244 House reps, viz., the billed just passed. To achieve Obama’s agenda the Democratic Senators need to put in the Senate package those things Obama and the House likely compromised upon in the House bill negotiations with the Republicans.
Make sure the Senate bill it has 60 votes (filibuster), then after voting it through back to the House for negotiations on the differences. Since no Republican is going to vote for a bill more "Democatic Party" driven, the mitigating circumstance is to be able to hold a majority in the House for the compromise bill.
Obama can get whatever he wants by having it put into the Senate bill, if he is convinced it will pass in the House.
Right now the GOP is making it look like they have shot Obama off his high horse, but all the while all Obama has done is trick them into revealing the range of their guns.
Nicely done.
Fritz
This is what an opposition party is supposed to do — explain why they disagree and present a coherent alternative in the next election. They aren’t supposed to get on board.
Obama has majorities in both houses. He can put his agenda through and voters in 2 years can determine whether it worked.
Zuzu's Petals
@John Cole:
Awesome, dude!
John Cole
@Fritz: Got a link to that coherent alternative? All I saw was some screeching about condoms and acorn and some random babble about tax cuts.
Would love to see the alternative you are talking about, because quite simply, there isn’t one. As little faith as I have in the Democrats, they are all we have right now. At least they are trying.
And before someone just accuses me of being a partisan Democrat, it would be instructive to remember why I am a Democrat these days. I will turn on them in a minute if they deserve it. Only the Steelers get my undying love.
HumboldtBlue
So where the hell are these supposed coherent alternatives? Give more tax breaks to the same crooks who ruined the damned economy in the first place? Stamp and scream about preventative medicine as if it’s a license to go out and fuck like David Vitter on a horndog binge?
There is no responsible opposition. You have Limbaugh, Hannity and the Palin symdrome. Willful, abject ignorance and bare obstructionism. The last fucking time any Republican had an idea worth discussing, particularly an economic one, was the day Ike gave his last speech. All that’s left are the closeted sexual scolds, the creation myth crackpots and Michele Bachmans.
Ash Can
I’ll admit that I’m a little — but only a little — surprised that the outcome really was unanimous only because, for whatever reason (old times’ sake, maybe?), I thought that at least one Republican, somewhere in that whole sorry lot, would figure out that he/she was being played like the entire string section of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Now I see that, even with their eyes wide open, the Republicans simply walked right into the trap that had been laid for them.
How do these people get to work every day without wandering out in front of Metro buses and getting themselves flattened?
Polish the Guillotines
@John Cole:
Which is why Tunch fears the stew pot.
kay
@Ash Can:
FOX says it shows Republicans can "unite in opposition" which is interesting, I guess, but probably not foremost on the minds of most Americans.
I know I was on pins and needles.
The Populist
If we need the money now, today! Why is the majority of it proposed for 2010 and 2011. Where does $500,000,000. in sex or no sex create stimulus. Though some of the sex money has already been nixed, what else is in this bill?
Must I keep answering this? Uhhhh, people don’t do those jobs for free. So basically, you are creating jobs and providing services that are needed. Sorry bud, the right like saying that poor people should stop having kids YET they tell them no abortion. Sex ed and planning is a vital economic issue. I have no problem with this. Had Bush gotten his brown nose out of the right wing’s collective buttocks, maybe this wouldn’t be something you’d object to.
2010, 2011 is a bit of a meme. More talking point than truth.
Conservatively Liberal
Fixed.
Here is something for everyone here to remember: In a 30 day month, 120,000 job losses equates to 4,000 jobs lost per day. Think about that for a few. I think we lost over 240,000 jobs from the last month reported, which means 8,000 jobs were lost every single day of that month. Just over 333 jobs lost per hour, 5.5 jobs per minute, about 1 job every 11 seconds.
I heard that 2.3 million jobs were lost in 2008. That works out to over 191, 600 jobs lost per month. 6,300 jobs lost per day. 262 jobs lost per hour. 4.4 jobs lost per minute.
We lost one job every 13 seconds last year. Are you worried yet? If not, I am willing to bet that you are a Republican.
The Populist
@Kay
There are some really useful, immediate provisions that Republicans just voted against. Like extending unemployment benefits. And Medicare funding. That goes to states. States can’t run deficits. Those things have to be paid for. States can BORROW from the feds. Was that the GOP plan?
Is that what you meant by "to the 50 states"? I’d suggest those with a GOP governor ask him or her how Republicans planned to pay for those crucial items, since Republicans voted against them.
The right doesn’t get that states are also suffering. They cannot deficit spend. Maybe a state like California deserves the mess it has created, BUT, it’s important that the state get funds to help keep schools open, teachers, firemen and police working. Public safety is important and I wish the right would stop acting like it’s not government’s job to teach the kids, police the streets, staff jails, and keep people safe.
Private industry has proven it can’t do these things. The very maroons against sex education seem to not get the more kids that are born to families ill-equipped to take care of them means we have to employ more teachers, police, etc.
I hate the idiot fringe right. I never understood them when I was a left leaning republican.
The Populist
We lost one job every 13 seconds last year. Are you worried yet? If not, I am willing to bet that you are a Republican.
These rubes will buy into the b.s. Rush, Michelle, Kristol, etc shovel until it’s too late. They think it won’t happen to them. They argue that things will be fine. They usually despise people in big cities, so they wish for these things to happen because their jealousy and hatred of people different from them hinders their logic.
Xenos
@The Populist: Since there are no righties around here but trolls, I will take a stab at defending tax cuts being in a stimulus package:
Certain well targeted tax cuts can add jobs and can help businesses under stress stay alive and thus maintain jobs.
A generous research and development tax credit, like what expired a few years ago, helps new technology companies stay competitive when the economy tanks. This can cause problems with international tax treaties, because it amounts to a subsidy, but if countries enact such credits for short, defined times, like three years, then business gets a shot in the arm when it really needs it.
Another good tax cut is to allow companies to average out their losses over prior years (a look-back, of, say, five years), thereby getting some of their prior years’ taxes returned to them. This will help a lot of employers stay open for business. It does not create jobs, but can stop the cascading job losses that can put the economy into a death spiral.
Ash Can
@kay: Yep. Actually, I realize that it was entirely possible that some of those Republicans knew that a "no" vote wasn’t in their best interest, but they were too intimidated to break ranks. Poor things.
The Populist
Wimps. The next time a rightie tells me Dems have no spine – I will point out the GOP in congress.
kay
@The Populist:
I don’t know if the whole mess is going to "work". What will "work" are those practical provisions that government has to provide when the private sector fails. This is not abstract or theoretical.
I can’t see voting against that "on principle" or to prove a point, but, I’m not an ideologue.
Bubblegum Tate
So the bill passed with nary a Republican vote. You know what this means: The GOP totally defeated–bitch-slapped, even–Obama.
I can’t even make a joke about that. It’s a joke unto itself.
The Populist
So the bill passed with nary a Republican vote. You know what this means: The GOP totally defeated—bitch-slapped, even—Obama.
I can’t even make a joke about that. It’s a joke unto itself.
How did they defeat him? I would say they were defeated in that they pretended to be involved only to act like children and not vote for it.
The Populist
@Kay
I am not very ideological either. I hate on those who are hypocrites. If a dem is a hypocrite, I call them out.
The right are the kings of hypocrisy and lies. How any of this ultimately plays out I have no clue either BUT folks like these dittohead types who post on these boards with the anti-liberal memes are the ones who suffer most. Why so angry I must ask them.
passerby
@debrazza:
Good call debrazza.
JWW
The Populist,
As I can see from your comments, You belong with the Dodo bird. Handing out condems and flyers is really not a job, I can find that on any street corner in any major city in the US. Spending US funds overseas for family planning doesn’t serve us well either. You and I may differ, but this is not job creation. Funding may give a man or woman a job for 90 days maybe 180 days. What then? We need jobs that are stable, a job that gives a family a chance to succeed.
Bubblegum Tate
@The Populist:
The best I can tell, they "defeated" him by unanimously not voting with him, thereby losing.
I dunno…just when I think I have Wingnut Logic sorted out, they throw stuff like this out there.
JWW
Bubblegum Tate,
Explain in this current bill as proposed what (=) stimulating the economy the day it is passed. We, as you and I or any other reader in this blog or any other blog has any idea what it contains. Put the entire bill open to public view. Until such time the bits and pieces that have been exposed so far are not what we voted for.
El Cid
The GOP is victorious here just like chimps at the zoo who fling their poo at the glass between them and the observers are victorious.
I don’t mean to insult chimps by comparing them to the GOP, but each group is thoroughly committed to flinging their own poo.
A la lanterne les aristos
I suspect that by ‘defeated’ they mean that they stood up against his evil attempt to sap and impurify all their precious bodily fluids.
JWW
To all,
You are allowing your rep’s to vote on a bill that is for the most part unknown to every voting man or woman in this country. Why don’t we make them expose the bill to the public. Do you really have that much trust? Let, we the people see what we are deciding on. That is our right, we are the voters but we never put blind trust in someone we have never met.
Conservatively Liberal
I see JWW is back(firing) like his old Model T self, as usual. JWW forgets to mention that they were willing to happily and blindly trust the Republicans and follow them over the cliff but suddenly decides to become a deep thinker once the Democrats are in charge.
Fuck off you waste of space.
Mrs. Peel
You mean like all the repug contractors in Iraq that are shoveling taxpayer dollars in their pockets so fast that nobody can count it all? You mean like that?
Bubblegum Tate
@A la lanterne les aristos:
WIN
TenguPhule
Wrong again, D-chance.
The Democratic Party has just spent as much as the FIRST Bush tax cut.
They have another 5+ TRILLION to go before reaching Bush level.
TenguPhule
Obviously the GOP intend to starve to death in the wilderness.
The Populist
As I can see from your comments, You belong with the Dodo bird. Handing out condems and flyers is really not a job, I can find that on any street corner in any major city in the US. Spending US funds overseas for family planning doesn’t serve us well either. You and I may differ, but this is not job creation. Funding may give a man or woman a job for 90 days maybe 180 days. What then? We need jobs that are stable, a job that gives a family a chance to succeed.
JWW,
First off, did I call you a name? Stick to the fact of my post. IT IS job creation. Right now, ANY job creation is a good thing. I have a hunch I know what side of the spectrum you are on and that’s fine, but family planning is something we should be providing no matter the situation. Why you ask? Because family planning can save people money.
Dodo bird? Nah. Facts, bud. If you disagree, I accept that, but do me a favor…show me how it’s NOT creating a job regardless if it’s a temp job or not.
BTW – the plan is to not "hand out condems" okay? Please read what the plan entails before condemning me.
The Populist
You are allowing your rep’s to vote on a bill that is for the most part unknown to every voting man or woman in this country. Why don’t we make them expose the bill to the public. Do you really have that much trust? Let, we the people see what we are deciding on. That is our right, we are the voters but we never put blind trust in someone we have never met.
JWW,
Please spare me on this. I see the strawman you are setting up here. Did you care this much when the GOP was constantly ramming spending bills for wars where the Bush administration said it cost one thing when we all KNOW it cost 10 times that.
Did you care this much when Bush and Cheney were handing out no bid contracts that paid the winner cost plus WITH NO BUDGET.
I find it funny that folks on the right are all worked up about this bill when they never seemed to care when the GOP did much worse with our tax dollars.
The Populist
JWW can only attack people he disagrees with. I knew when I posted the job creation comment I’d get a response like that.
Job creation is job creation especially when good Americans need to do SOMETHING to earn a buck nowadays. Too bad JWW would rather sell me a talking point instead of engage me on WHY it’s a bad thing.
oooh I forgot, the GOP wants the women of this country to get pregnant, have the child and then who cares what happens to it.
JWW, I was a Republican until I saw the light.
The Populist
@Mrs. Peel
The next fucking asswipe on the right that argues about this bill using Fox and Limpbaugh talking points loses. PERIOD.
These maroons sure didn’t care how Bush spent OUR money. He is concerned that people "he doesn’t know" are spending "our" money yet does that mean he knew Bush? Please…these doofuses lost the right to cry about spending "our" tax dollars the minute they blew Clinton’s surplus on tax breaks for rich people in a time of war.
liberal
@Xenos:
AFAICT there’s no practical way to ensure it only goes towards real R and D.
Xenos
@liberal: Maybe Tax Analyst will show up and explain it. My spouse, an accountant, used to do that sort of work but the business dried up a few years ago when the last credit expired.
Now the only growth industry in the business is setting up investment funds for money that is fleeing from continent to continent looking for sound investments that have survived. Given the global nature of the GNLCF (Global NeoLiberal ClusterF*ck (r) ) I expect that will remain a busy industry for some time.
Some innovative new tax credits will help keep the big four in business.
Fritz
Yes, John — Republicans need to generate some coherent alternatives. But the first step is to actually be an opposition party.
Just because Democrats were a horribly ineffective opposition (managing to be ineffective even with Congressional majorities) does not mean it is unfair for Republicans to be effective in that role.
goatchowder
No no no no, you’re missing the point.
Obama put the tax cuts in, not because Repugs requested them, but because THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED HIM INTO OFFICE DID!!
He was touting tax cuts the whole campaign. Remember that chart showing his plan vs. McCain’s? Where Obama’s tax cuts went to the middle class and McCain’s went to the rich? He can’t back off that campaign promise.
Tax cuts are NOT a concession to the Repugs. For better or worse, he PROMISED them to US, the voters who elected him. Now he’s got to make good on it. The only Repugs who he is bowing to in this case, are Reagan, Stockman, Laffer, Bush, Gingrich, and all the other clowns who for generations have been pushing this idiotic "supply-side" crap. The fact that voters buy this nonsense is NOT OBAMA’S FAULT. He is a man of his word, got elected on a platform of tax cuts for the working class, and here he is delivering them.
Of course they’re stupid. Of course they won’t do shit to help the economy. So what? Give the People What They Want. This is a good policy: the People also want Universal Health Care, an end to torture, an end to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, accountable government, safe water, safe food, clean air, well-funded schools, and jobs, goddammit, and we WILL get those too.