What a little candy and flowers will do:
SEOUL, South Korea — North Korean media say leader Kim Jong Il has pardoned two American journalists and ordered their release during the visit of former U.S. President Bill Clinton.
Update. Who gets to write the WaPo neocon opinion piece about how this is appeasement, etc.? Do we have to wait to get Kristol’s next installment or might we get a Wolfowitz or Bolton piece tomorrow morning?
General Winfield Stuck
Big dog still has it. Good news of the day!
YellowJournalism
Cue cigar jokes in 5, 4, 3…
ricky
But will they have to ride one of Lil Kim’s missiles home?
MikeJ
A much faster pardon than two North Koreans sneaking over the border into the US would have received.
Trinity
You’ve gotta give it up to the Big Dog. Very nice work.
And this is a good time for a distraction from the town hall hooligans. The M$M will eat this story up for days. Look for interviews with the girls first grade teachers within 24 hours.
Zifnab
@MikeJ: If you can make it across the North Korean border and into the US, there are some physicists who would like to have a word with you.
SiubhanDuinne
Was just reading Media Matters’ “Limbaugh Report” and evidently Rush has decided that because it was Bill and not Hillary in North Korea, the mission was “too important to send the girl.”
(Hillary, he claims, is in Kenya “kissing Obama’s grandfather’s grave.”)
Guy is such a P. I. G. — oh wait, I actually like pigs.
Morbo
“Appeasement” accusations in 3… 2…
PaulW
I’ll celebrate after we find out what Clinton had to promise in exchange for getting the Americans out.
And I hate to tell you this, Trinity, but this is gonna slide under the media radar because it shows a Democrat actually, you know, doing something quietly and professionally. FOX and CNN and even MSNBC would rather stick to the yelling and screaming and faux Republican-spawned outrage.
General Winfield Stuck
My vote for most surreal photo of the young century.
Mike S
John Bolton is .
Just Some Fuckhead
Rumor has it Big Dawg had to go by himself because Hillary refused to talk to our enemies without preconditions.
MikeJ
@Zifnab: What because they’re non contiguous? Pretty wacky how Americans were detained sneaking over the NoKo border despite the fact that the US is thousands of miles away.
Scott H
Ain’t nothing a couple of cases of Jack Daniel’s won’t solve.
lamh31
Good news for the Obama administration too. I don’t believe for one second that the administration wasn’t already laying the groundwork for the “Big Dog” to be able to go in and finish the job. Besides, there is no way that Bill could even go to North Korea without the WH being aware (which as I understand it, they knew all about it)
So while the “Big dog” will probably get all the cred, let’s not forget that the Obama admin did have something to do with it too.
Good news that the journos are free.
Mike S
Oy. HTML is not my friend. I said he is perterbed by this.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090804/pl_afp/nkoreausmediaclintonnuclearweaponsbolton_20090804160611
Tzal
And the Obama fail train continues apace. If Cash for Clunkers didn’t prove to you all that we can’t trust Obama on Healthcare, then this surely must.
General Winfield Stuck
And a lifetime Penthouse subscription.
ET
All he wanted was ego-stroking from someone to gather attention. He still needs to feel relevant and having the Big Dawg fly over and ask was just the ticket.
dr. bloor
@General Winfield Stuck:
Kim looks remarkably life-like in that picture.
ellaesther
I have the sneaking suspicion that this is all about a crazy little man wanting the world’s attention….
(Hey, why is Clinton “Big Dog”? I’ve never heard him called this before. Am I just hanging out in the wrong crowds?)
General Winfield Stuck
@Tzal:
What are you talking abut?
JenJen
What’s a pity is that they didn’t even leave enough time for our Awesome Liberal Media to spin this as a Clinton vs. Clinton one-act teleplay, or to speculate about the tension between the former President and the current one vis-a-vis North Korean policy.
Well-played, Obama Adminstration, and Big Dog. :-) Speed Kills, and it also gets shit done.
General Winfield Stuck
@Tzal:
Read again and sounds like you snark. disregard me last comment.
General Winfield Stuck
For a Zombie Elf.
Tzal
General Winfield Stuck:
He couldn’t handle the job himself so he had to send Bill Clinton. Maybe he should send Jimmy Carter to reform Healthcare. . .
tavella
It seems a well-calibrated effort; President Clinton carries a lot of prestige but no real power, thus maximizing the buffing of Kim’s ego while minimizing the amount of actual gain. And I’m quite sure it was done in close coordination with his wife the SoS and the rest of the Obama administration.
Zifnab
@MikeJ: Well, right, but they were doing that from South Korea (or, I guess, maybe China).
@Tzal: Hehe. I agree. This is a major black eye for the Obama Administration. If the journalists had just been shot it would have been much better.
Right, FOX News Military Analyst Ralph Peters?
PeakVT
Good news, good news.
And I want to know who, exactly, will be influenced by seeing a picture of Clinton and Kim together? How can it be a publicity coup if nobody gives a damn?
ellaesther
@tavella: I love it when people make sense. This makes perfect sense! And pulled together for me the random thoughts I was having about the whole thing. Thank you! On my imaginary TV news hour, you are now on the list of pundits.
JenJen
Strike my comment at #23. MSNBC running with “Is it possible President Clinton has upstaged both his wife and the current President?”
Please shoot me. May I have a cigarette first?
inkadu
@PaulW: And I hate to tell you this, Trinity, but this is gonna slide under the media radar because it shows a Democrat actually, you know, doing something quietly and professionally.
It’s worse than that, he’s dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead, Jim.
It’s worse than that, he’s dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead, Jim, dead.
NPR’s take on the story (paraphrase): The visit may have handed Kim Jong Il a moral victory as he gains a little in prestige by the visit of the former president in advance of coming talk regarding North Korea’s nuclear program.
Which is probably the Walrus’ take, noted above. To NPR’s credit, that was in their hourly news report from two hours ago, and the story’s changed, and the moral victory language has been excised.
Jon
If there’s one person in America you could send to recover two Asian chicks and know that he would not rest or relent until the job was done…
Horses for courses, my friends. Horses for courses. =)
gwangung
@tavella:
Ding! Ding! Ding!
Damn, it sure is a relief to be talking with people with IQs in the triple digits….
(OK, that sounds like damning with faint praise, but you know what I mean…..)
Trinity
@JenJen: My God I hate our media.
ellaesther
@JenJen: Oh, for the love of… What is this fuckery?
These people need to talk to tavella — unless they’re running the headline in order to say “Why no, it is not what we just suggested it to be!” (Which would still be fuckery, but not as bad fuckery, if you see what I mean).
inkadu
Gnuswire:
“The talks went very well. I told Kim Jong Il I’d like a doctor to take his picture so I could look at him from inside as well,” President Clinton told reporters in Seoul.
General Winfield Stuck
@Tzal:
So I guess you weren’t spoofing afterall. In that case, suck on this.
Anoniminous
Standard procedure in high level diplomatic meetings to do something like this. I wouldn’t be surprised if those two were arrested just so they could be released.
Cat Lady
@Tzal:
Maybe you can pretend to be a Somali pirate.
General Winfield Stuck
@JenJen:
Of course they are. It’s what they do. Gin up controversy to get viewers. IOW’s . That rational Kim dude can pick a winner when he sees one, to do bidness with, and why wasn’t it Obama?
bhagamu
@update
John Bolton already did it.
The Grand Panjandrum
DougJ I’m hope the Dickwhisperer and his little buddy make another one of those really funny videos. Maybe one of them could be made up as Kim Il Jong wearing a blue dress? Get it? Get it? Hahahahahahahahahaha!
inkadu
Kim Jong Il later explained how the talks were such a success. “President Clinton approached me, bit my lower lip and whispered, ‘You want to let those two journalists go, don’t ya Kimmy? Ya know ya do.’ He would not let go until I nodded my head.”
I love the real Bill Clinton almost as much as I love parody Bill Clinton. I miss them both so very much.
Punchy
Just how much plutonium did Slick Willie promise the North Koreans for this move?
/wingers
Singularity
Dude, Tzal is spoofing. And Jimmy Carter would be great to head up health care in this country.
I assume Tzal is deep-spoofing. I also assume he will post soon denying it. But if he really isn’t, then fuck that guy.
Tzal
General Winfield Stuck: I was. And I was surprised anyone bought it. But wingers are hard to spoof, so you can be excused for having trouble distinguishing the real thing from spoofs thereof.
In any event, I am sort of bummed that this all happened so quickly. The Malkins and Freepers of the world didn’t have a time to develop a frothy-mouthed criticism which would be picked up and echoed by the mainstream media. Which would have increased the LOLs by several orders of magnitude after the mission ultimately succeeded.
But it is great the journalists are coming home. . .
YellowJournalism
@JenJen: Oh, Jen, it’s already starting (Clinton vs Clinton). MSNBC was just talking about how this could “possibly” make Hillary look weak in her position.
ET
The time on a Bolton WaPo bit is 1:09PM
“……..So the Clinton trip is a significant propaganda victory for North Korea, whether or not he carried an official message from President Obama. Despite decades of bipartisan U.S. rhetoric about not negotiating with terrorists for the release of hostages, it seems that the Obama administration not only chose to negotiate, but to send a former president to do so.”
And then he harkened back to Jimmy Carter.
MikeJ
BIll wouldn’t have been able to sneak off to NoKo with nobody noticing had Hillary not been sent to Kenya to destroy Obama’s Certificate of Live Muslimitude.
Zifnab
@YellowJournalism: Funny. I remember back in ’92 / ’93 they were accusing Hillary of being too hands on and involved in Presidential Affairs. I remember how she made Bill look weak when she took the lead on health care.
If Bill had been hooking up with an Argentinian mistress while Hillary was banging hookers on C-street and neither of them had bothered doing their jobs, they’d be more in line with the GOP platform.
Redshirt
In other news, Obama Administration cures cancer; John McCain responds “That’s only one disease — what about diabetes?” Tonight on CNN, Wolf Blitzer discusses whether Obama has done enough to fight disease….
The Grand Panjandrum
@dr. bloor:
They used the same sound stage they used for the “moon landing” and the make up artists are the people who forged Obama’s birf seritifikat. This was small potatoes.
Awesom0
Not trying to piss on anyone’s fire here, but there may be an ulterior reason for the DPRK’s dealings. Fallows (best liberal voice at the Atlantic and the man who called – back in 2002! – the situation in Iraq with uncanny accuracy) has just posted information that the DPRK *may* be providing Burma with massive nuclear weapons support.
Assuming this is true (and this is a HUGE “if”) it may be a face-saving way for the DPRK to extricate itself from an extremely bad situation in East Asia. Again, assuming this is true, me thinks that China would be none-to-pleased that the DPRK is making its backyard so incredibly dangerous.
It *may* be diplomatic cover and nothing else. It’s entirely plausible to think that the highest level US envoy to visit the DPRK since 1994 (and we were much closer to war on the Korean Peninsula that we realize) wouldn’t have visited for two journalists. Think about it; since 1994 the DPRK has detonated 2 nukes, starved millions of people and generally been utter douchebags. Why now?
Again, I’m not saying ANY of this is true (it’s nothing more than a thought experiment on my part), but it’s worth considering….
Llelldorin
Of course John Bolton did. Because negotiating with a hostile power is always bad, but having the country’s official stance be that of a 13-year-old girl towards a friend who OMGstoleherboyfriend is the mature, sensible way to behave.
The Saff
@tavella: “It seems a well-calibrated effort; President Clinton carries a lot of prestige but no real power, thus maximizing the buffing of Kim’s ego while minimizing the amount of actual gain. And I’m quite sure it was done in close coordination with his wife the SoS and the rest of the Obama administration.”
Exactly! I think it hardly makes Hillary Clinton or the Obama Administration look weak. On the contrary, they’re focusing on diplomacy to get things done internationally and this effort succeeded. After 8 years of bluster and bullying from the Bushies, this is a nice change of pace. Grownups are in charge again.
Brick Oven Bill
“Sometimes she looks like a primary schoolgirl and sometimes a pensioner going shopping.”
North Korea is one of those countries with ‘permanent potential’, but there is a reason their missiles do not fly well. When it comes time to step up to the plate, you have got to make your swing count.
The Russians make excellent missiles. Here is one big reason why the Russians have the geopolitical strategic advantage, at least until our currency fails. When a Russian puts his mind to it, he can knock it out of the park. The Russians can be very good.
flukebucket
@ricky: The missle they ride home belongs to Bill.
MikeJ
That would be the response from the left. The right would say, “Marxist abortion welfare!!”
Crashman06
@ET: People like Bolton are disgusting. We are talking about two human beings here, two lives, two fellow citizens who were railroaded by a corrupt, dare I say evil regime. We managed to free them without anyone getting killed. How dare anyone claim this makes us look weak, or try to turn this into some kind of critique of the administration. Our government did it’s job; it protected our people. That’s all that matters. I’m sure Bolton would be singing a different tune if his kid was locked up in a hard labor camp somewhere outside Pyongyang.
gwangung
Or Kim was cheaply bought off by a prestigious, but out of power personage who had nothing better to do and doesn’t have any official influence on policy.
Max
And a very happy birthday for Obama.
Today, we get our journalists back.
Tomorrow, he gets his wise latina supreme court justice.
This is great news for President McCain.
Also,
The Saff
Llelldorin @ 54: for the win.
mutt
http://www.nk-news.net/extras/insult_generator.php
more proof you cant reason with them…..
mutt
http://www.nk-news.net/extras/insult_generator.php
more proof you cant reason with them…..
The Saff
John Bolton is a major scum bag. He seems like he has a perpetual chip on his shoulder. Pissed off at everything and everyone. He was a major asshole on Bill Maher a month or two back. I think he was wearing a wedding ring. Imagine being married to that. Yuk.
Tratclif
Fred Kaplan has a in Slate speculating that the release of prisoners is a cover for jump-starting negotiations with North Korea.
Senyordave
I’m sure Bolton would be singing a different tune if his kid was locked up in a hard labor camp somewhere outside Pyongyang.
Actually Bolton’s such a sick, doctrainnaire f**k that he probably would sacrifice his own kid
kay
@JenJen:
It’s fine.
I knew they were going to cover it like that. Here’s the thing, though, they met the goal. “We” (as in Americans) used the assets we have to accomplish something, without bickering over turf or being too small to try it.
They’re nitwits, in the media, and they’re just wrong. A good result is what matters. The rest is ego and politics.
ironranger
@Crashman06:
Bolton & most conservatives/R’s can’t imagine their own kids in a labor camp because that kind of thing only happens to other people.
Awesom0
When a Russian puts his mind to it, he can knock it out of the park. The Russians can be very good.
Russians versus Koreans? Are you kidding me? I put my money on the Koreans ANY day of the week. Here we have a nation (combining both N & S Korea, which have been one nation for nearly 5,000 years until 1950 – mere blip on the historical time line) amid historical giants – e.g. China, Japan, Russia, the European colonial powers and later the USA in their back yard.
Not only that, they’ve managed to survive. The South Koreans have gone from a nation with a per capita income on par with Sudan in 1950, to a nation with a 20K/person income in just 50 years. They’ve done in 50 years what the West took 300 years to do – and that includes all the massive social changes which accompanies rapid development.
The Koreans boast world class companies – Hyundai, Samsung, LG, etc. Give me ONE world beating Russian company that doesn’t involve pumping energy.
Long story short: The Russians being exemplars of technological excellent vis-a-vis the Koreans is so laughable.
Then again…you are BOB.
Slightly tipsy rant.
Awesom0
Damn it….what happened to the edit function with comments?
r€nato
@SiubhanDuinne:
I just cannot imagine how it is that Rush is thrice-divorced. He sounds like a real keeper that any woman would be proud to have as her husband.
Robin G.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t it Bill instead of Hillary expressly for the purpose of making sure the government wasn’t officially involved? Bill was there as a private citizen, technically not speaking for the US at all, right?
There’s no doubt in my mind that the White House (and Madame Secretary) were heavily involved in all this, but doing it this way kept the veneer of keeping Kim Jong Il at arm’s length. So our government isn’t obligated, Kim Jong Il gets to feel all special and important, Bill Clinton proves he’s still a major force, and the journalists are freed. Everyone wins. Barring unpleasant revelations, it looks like this was perfectly executed.
JenJen
@kay:
Well, I can certainly drink to that! Congratulations, Big Dog, and let’s toast again when the journalists are home!
Brachiator
@JenJen:
Sarah Palin will claim that she could have got the journalists out by quitting halfway through any negotiations.
Laura Ling is the sister of journalist Lisa Ling, who used to appear on The View. It will be interesting to see whether designated View wingnut Elisabeth Hasselbeck gives Clinton and Obama any credit for securing the release of the two journalists.
Bootlegger
@Brick Oven Bill: I don’t get it BoB (not that anyone ever gets what you’re babbling about), it seems you’re saying the Russians are good at missiles because they are white and don’t employ women. Amiright?
tavella
Oh, for the love of… US ex-Presidents do not jet off to North Korea without clearing it with State. I wouldn’t be surprised if the impetus came from that side, in fact. Kim gets a grip-n-grin and a nice shiny doodad for his museum; Clinton and Podesta (who was also along, probably to do the behind the scenes talking) were likely under instructions to feel out their opposites and report back whether they thought anything useful would come from further talks. Clinton apologizes, no doubt in his most folksy and charming way (“kids these days, no respect for borders…”); Kim gets to say “a US President apologized to me!” while ignoring that he was apologizing as Bill Clinton only.
It’s *better* if North Korea feels a little bit chuffed; they do their craziest stuff when they are feeling marginalized. If you can chill them out slightly without actually spending any diplomatic coin, it’s a win.
General Winfield Stuck
@Tzal:
Your spoofing is off key and poorly pitched. And are you saying we are wingers, or that posing as a winger is hard to do? I don’t really know where your coming from. Unless it’s drunksville.
kay
In what world does this make Hillary Clinton look weak?
Do journalists work alone? Does anyone? I swear, they cling to these fairy tales of single historical actors brandishing swords and slaying dragons, and that has never been true. Not ever.
I think I dropped that particular fantasy my first week on a minimum wage job. They live in some alternate universe.
Bootlegger
@gwangung: Exactly, we just one the pot with a pair of twos because KJI thought they were aces.
r€nato
@Robin G.:
Wrong. It was EPIC FAIL because we didn’t get to pick up some crappy country and throw it against the wall, and no defense contractors made any money off it.
Bootlegger
@General Winfield Stuck: I got it as soon as I read it.
Rob in Denver
Like my buddy Derek said:
gwangung
Anybody with an IQ above room temperature realizes that. Neocons, however, are so inadequate that they can’t conceive of any international relationship that doesn’t end up with them picking up some foreigner and slamming them against the way.
We are blessed with a president and Secretary of State who have IQs well into the triple digits.
Bootlegger
@Awesom0: Add to that the historical fact that the Russians were a century behind the West right up until the late 19th century. Still a damned backward place.
angulimala
Journalists in a Commie country and come out alive?
Clearly MSM Traitor Manchurian Candidates!!!!!
Or not.
Whatever.
Tzal
General Winfield Stuck
I’ll have you know that I am both going to and coming from drunkville. And your comment on my spoofing ability lacks credibility in light of the fact I trolled you. But, to be clear, I don’t think the majority of people who post here are wingnuts.
Saying crazy stuff in order to pretend to be a wingnut is hard because the stuff they say grows crazier by the day. This theme has been explored on this blog and elsewhere.
joe from Lowell
Jeff Jacoby, Boston Globe, August 2, 2009:
There has been no public condemnation of North Korea’s thuggish behavior, only a request that the women be granted “amnesty’’ and set free. At the State Department’s insistence, a mild congressional resolution urging the journalists’ release was withdrawn by its sponsor, Representative Adam Schiff of California. It is presumably also in deference to State’s wishes that Current TV and former vice president Al Gore, the cable channel’s lead backer, have declined to comment publicly on the case.
Is this “softly, softly’’ approach really the best way to deal with the demented totalitarians who rule North Korea?
Meatheads. They have no idea how anything works. They just like explosions. USA! USA!
Screw that; I’ll take the Americans on a plane.
r€nato
I just can’t believe this idiot Bolton was ever allowed anywhere near the diplomats of other nations, as a representative of the US.
gopher2b
To everyone speculating that Bill probably worked closely with Obama administration and State department….no shit. They were obviously going to release them or he wouldn’t have gone.
Not to take anything away from Bill but there are some low, middle, and high level state department staffers and as Hillary, herself, who deserve a substantial amount of credit for this. “Upstaging”…idiots.
kay
@JenJen:
They’re not going to let us be happy for FIVE SECONDS, because they’re concerned.
It occurred to me more than once when former President Bush was in office that perhaps he could have called on some of the smart people he must have met as a third generation Bush politician.
He was the son of a President who was no slouch on foreign policy. He rejected all that accumulated wisdom, for a bunch of smug ‘n pasty neoconservative academics, who ran around sneering at anyone who actually knew something.
he went slumming around in think tanks, rather than asking his father. Idiot. It’s ego.
General Winfield Stuck
@Bootlegger:
I thought I had too. Then this response.
@Tzal:
This sounds like straight wingnut talk. No tells, or any sign of one. And the first comment was only slightly better pitched.
Brick Oven Bill
The South Koreans are much better than the North Koreans. Just as the former West Germans were much better than the former East Germans. This is because socialist policies suck the life essence out of a Country’s Citizens. Twenty years later, Eastern Germans still trail their western counterparts in most metrics of productivity.
But the Russians are something else. Kalashnikov was a wounded tank sergeant who designed that thing in the hospital. The Russians went into Georgia, kicked ass, and left. We went into Iraq and Afghanistan and are still trying to get the Muslims to like us. We are tripping over ourselves about using taxpayer money to rescue two uppity female journalists who violated the rules of the country that was hosting them.
Tell me who is the smart country in 2009.
Comrade Luke
Can’t wait to hear how this is good news for Republicans.
joe from Lowell
I thought it was well-played, Tzal. Light touch, but “…then this surely must,” was a clear tell.
8.9.
ominira
@ricky: Win!
General Winfield Stuck
@Tzal:
Straight trolling and spoofing are two different things. Anyone can pretend to be a wingnut and say wingnutty things and fool people. No skill needed. Spoofing by pretending to be a wingnut requires a degree finesse to subtly suggest spoof. You have none of that, that I can tell.
Fwiffo
Fucking results; say what you will about him, but this stuff is cake for the Big Dog. He needs a bigger challenge, like dealing with the US Senate’s wanker caucus.
gwangung
Well, remember what kind of maroons we had in the previous administration….
kay
@Fwiffo:
I think the Clintons have a legitimate beef with the press. They absolutely feasted on the tiniest scandals. Clinton-rumor mongering was an industry in the 1990’s. Whole media careers were launched.
But they completely ignore anything substantively positive that either one of them does, unless it’s “politics”.
It’s like they turned them into cartoons, and they don’t have the honesty to revise what was always a false and shallow characterization. Not that the Clintons care, especially, to their credit.
ricky
Why must we settle for John Bolton when Shirley Temple Black still lives?
Redshirt
That will be a glorious day when W. is sent on an important diplomatic mission. Perhaps the opening of a new Chuck E. Cheeze in Beijing?
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
I think there may have been some pretty deep Oedipal issues involved in the 41-43 relationship. Lucky for us as a country that the internal Bush family psycho-drama didn’t have any noticable effect on our public policy or important historical events effecting millions of people…
Oh, wait.
/another argument against political dynasties
eric
There are three audiences for this type of event: (1) the American public, (2) the American elite (MSM, GE, John Cole), and (3) the rest of the effing world, including the Palestinians and Israelis.
To negotiate a peace in the middle east, you need credibility as a negotiator. You need the world to perceive you as savvy and cool.
This is something best played to the world audience, not the US of god-fearing A.
eric
MikeJ
I’m interested what these people who are so concerned about talking to North Korea said about how Bush dealt with China when they downed one of our spy planes.
freelancer
Who wants to bet that Hannity lauds Bill tonight because he’d rather go PUMA for 30 seconds than let Obama have any sort of credit?
He’ll also have Bolton on in the segment after that:
Neville Chamberlain LIVES!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK0d8ENS__c
Bad Horse's Filly
@Rob in Denver: FTW!
SGEW
Obligatory GYWO North Korea cartoon from 2003 here.
Bill Arnold
What I still don’t understand is how Bolton was given diplomat positions. The guy is pretty much essence of anti-diplomat. There is a place for anti-diplomacy, but the diplomatic corps is not that place, and neither is the UN.
Zifnab
Shorter BOB: Ah Iz Totally Serial 4en Polyticks Guy.
That’s great, Bill. Maybe lean back in the rocking cheer and have another brewsky. You’ll tire yourself out.
arguingwithsignposts
Bob:
Yes, because West Germany and S. Korea are pure capitalist nations like the good ole Yoo Ess of Ayyee. Not.
pssst. Look up “socialized medicine” and see where WG and SK fit in that scheme.
gypsy howell
I’m amazed that anyone, even the wingnuts and our stupid media, would actually proffer for a minute that Big Dog did this all on his own, and that it all happened without the intense involvement and planning of the Obama White House. And that this upstages or humiliates Obama and Hillary.
Seriously, this is how they think things work? Ex-Presidents, husbands of the current Sec’y of State, just fly off on their on, on some rogue mission to North Frickkin Korea?
They don’t really expect us to buy that, do they?
Comrade Luke
@Rob in Denver:
That’s awesome. I’m totally using that.
:)
Redshirt
@Bill Arnold:
Because, like with most republican appointments, Bush and the gang did not want someone good in the job – they wanted someone who would piss everyone off and wreck everything. It’s the Republican form of governance — the government is bad, dontchya know?
arguingwithsignposts
@Brick Oven Bill:
(my earlier comment got hung up in moderation)
Because W. Germany and S. Korea are just like the capitalist Ewe Esse of Ayeee – Not (cf., socialized medicine).
RedKitten
Exactly. It was a finely done bit of diplomacy, with no need for any military threats or big-swinging-dick posturing. Which means that the Reich-wing will shriek about how it shows weakness.
General Winfield Stuck
Bolton tonight.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
@Jon: I hope to hell your replacement keyboard fund is full. I’m lucky I had just swallowed that last glass of fine, American lager.
Mike in NC
Or maybe an Alcoholics Anonymous chapter in Ulan Bator?
Re: North Korea – can we trade them Bolton and his ridiculous moustache for the two American women?
John PM
I second Mike’s comment about GWB and China. GWB had to do some major groveling there, iirc.
inkadu
socialism
just checking
inkadu
@arguingwithsignposts: don’t call it socializm. call it dick-embiggening.
Death, taxes, and bitching about wordpress.
numbskull
BOB: “We are tripping over ourselves about using taxpayer money to rescue two uppity female journalists who violated the rules of the country that was hosting them.”
Gee, BOB, you believe the North Koreans? You trust the Commies to have a fair trial? WTF is wrong with you, boy?
SiubhanDuinne
@ r€nato / 4:30 pm
It beggars belief, doesn’t it? I know I would just grab hold of his multitude of chins and never let him go.
/snarkety snarky snark
PaulW
Let us not be surprised that there are ppl like BOB and Tzal and Bolton who view this as EPIC FAIL no matter what, because anything and everything relating to a) Democrats, b) Obama, and/or c) the Clintons must automatically suck/be wrong/violate the laws of Dog and Nature. Obama can come up with a cure for all cancer, and the Clintons come up with a means of distributing to all Americans at an affordable rate, and the Far Right will STILL call it all a SOCIALIST TRAP ZOMBG.
Any day now, I swear a Far Righter is gonna criticize the way Obama ties his shoelaces.
Erin
I don’t understand how this is becoming such a victory for the US and for Clinton and Obama… it’ all fishy and happened too quickly and quietly. Either these men are planning something, or Korea is planning something. Either way, this won’t be the end of this little homecoming event.
BC
About the candy and flowers . . . who knew, all US had to do to get the candy and flowers is stroke the ego of Kim Jong Il? And I love the way Clinton looks at that little girl in North Korea who is giving him flowers. That kind of thing can have lasting impact – the respect from a Western bigwig shown to just a little girl. Neat – the North Koreans will show it all over.
Jeff E
Wouldn’t a real American hero have sold weapons to terrorists as part of the deal?
pattonbt
Great job to all involved in this. This should be lauded full stop. Win-win for everyone involved. But most importantly we get two US citizens freed from jail with zero actual cost.
And Id also like to comment on the Bush / China spy plane thing MikeJ noted above. I will always give credit where credit is due and Bush, I believe, handled that quite well.
Rhetorical (stupid) question I know, but why is it that wingers have to hate on any plainly obvious good thing done by the D’s? Do they not realize that this is probably one of things that, as Peggy Noonan would say, they should walk on by and leave alone. How is anyone, who isnt in the deepest heart of the 28% going to think this is bad? Seriously? They just can not help themselves.
Its the same thing with the cash for clunkers scheme. Awsome program, showed to be extremely effective and popular, yet they rail on it. I dont get it. Well I do get it because of how they are constituted, but that BS really only works with the lunatic base. It just distances the rest of the population. It just baffles me that this is what they are actually made up of.
JWW
Real Simple,
1. In dealing with an idiot, make the deal beforehand.
2. In dealing with an idiot, send one of your equals.
3. In dealing with an idiot, make them feel like someone and remain an idiot.
4. In dealing with an idiot, say hey Mickey Mouse was my hero to.
You now have your deal and nobody needs to know the difference.
America should feel proud. Has anybody asked Al Gore what the current temp was in this deal?
Losers
JWW
Dougj,
You should feel so proud! It is because of people like you, (remembering) exerting so much pressure on the current administation to take action that this all happened.
I have a hard time remebering the last time this issue was mentioned here. Oh, I forgot that if it’s not personal or front page, this blog site could care less.
Dougj,
Once again your are on top of things.
JWW
Sorry,
I entered this game too late. It may have been quite a ride. Then again, quite a ride Doug it’s like buy one get three free. Meaning, we paid up front, there will be loss, lets at least break even or minimize the loss.
I say game, because that’s what they were playing before they got caught. We all feel for them, we all want them home safe.
Somebody sent them, somebody failed them. Who was it?
I would not want to be the person taking the rectal temp of a retarded tiger.
But I do see, Doug is the man.
Technology Slice
Good on Bill Clinton for helping free those people.
Gravenstone
@Erin:
See the NYT link posted far upthread. This was basically the culmination of some long term behind the scenes diplomatic work. It sounds like NK specifically chose President Clinton as the emissary they wanted to deal with for the denoument of the deal. As others have posited here, this was basically a nice little win for all parties concerned, with very little actual political price paid.
JWW
Where’s Doug or maybe the Clanmaster John,
You are both nuttless wonders. Even your minions can’t respond to the truth. The truth will come out and our country along with others will pay the price for it.
Why don’t you use your mind before you mouth (keyboard). You can’t because your cash flow depends on smut.
Great job gentlemen!!!