We’ve been talking about a new tag here “59 seat minority”. The Village Voice has already gotten to it:
“Scott Brown Wins Mass. Race, Giving GOP 41-59 Majority in the Senate”
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
Accountability, motherfuckers.
Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL.
Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.
When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.
It’s the corruption, stupid.
I really should read my own blog.
Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.
Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.
The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.
JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?
I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.
It’s not hopeless, and we’re not helpless.
The real work of an opposition party is to oppose.
Innocent people don’t delay justice.
Fear or fury? The choice is ours.
American History and Black History can not be separated.
Only Democrats have agency, apparently.
This really is a full service blog.
It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.
Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!
🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵
“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.
When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.
Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.
Kryptik
It’d be such an absurd headline if it wasn’t essentially true.
Scuffletuffle
We are all teabaggers now….
Zifnab
Don’t forget Joe Lieberman.
gonzone
Sad but true.
And Dubya had a mandate with 47% of the vote too.
Heh, heh, I said man date … (pretending to be GOP)
tamied
Sigh. Being a Democrat is definitely a hopeless obsession. Is the patron saint of the party Saint Jude?
TenguPhule
After the R “majority” is executed, can we start on our illiterate media next?
Kryptik
@tamied:
There really is no point to being an American Liberal/Progressive anymore, is there?
Stroszek
I usually avoid the MSM for this very reason, but they’re not even trying to hide the gloating at this point. I see they’re already running with the “Democrats are delaying his seating” meme. Le sigh…
Anyone else notice how not even teabaggers talk about liberal media bias anymore?
Deborah
When the Republicans held the majority plus the presidency a few years back–and they never had 59 votes in the Senate and 59% of the House–you never heard Republicans complain that they couldn’t get anything passed. It’s one thing to admire in them–and that governing like a majority when you have a majority is worthy of note is a sad judgment on the Democrats.
I read that John Colbert had an excellent rant along these lines a few days ago; does anyone have a link?
John S.
Hey, don’t forget about all us Jewish Democrats.
We don’t do saints, but I’ll accept Moses as our patron. Leading us out of the wilderness and towards the promised land, only to get tripped up by his own hubris so close to the finish line.
Edit: And of course, I’d be remiss to point out the similarities between Democrats and the behavior of the whining, feckless Jews the entire time trying to blame Moses for their plight and screw his agenda at every possible turn.
Brian J
As if there wasn’t already enough of a reason to drink during the middle of the day, I then read that shit. Words simply fail.
The Grand Panjandrum
As I wrote in the previous thread, Obama has about 24 hours to get this bunch of
feckless pussiesCongressional Democrats whipped into line or he can kiss his agenda goodbye. (Jesus Babbling Christ, Barney Frank is about to surrender the fucking ship! Barney Frank …)Darius
Actually, I heard Republicans complaining loudly and often that they couldn’t get their judges confirmed, or SS privatization passed. Remember the whole “nuclear option” thing? Should’ve let them kill the filibuster back then.
Matthew B.
The Voice article is by Roy Edroso, people. The joke is intentional.
Lolis
If Congressional Dems don’t pass health care, I’m done with them. And I’m a huge Obama supporter.
Shalimar
More like 39-2-35-24 majority. I’m not sure of the exact number of moderates in the Democratic party, but it’s far more than half as compared to only 2 even remotely reachable votes among the Republicans.
Democrats haven’t changed significantly over the years, the party has always been divided to varying degrees between liberals and moderates/conservatives (though I think liberalism is devalued compared to where it was 30 years ago and there are relatively fewer liberals elected now than there were then).
The big change is that Republicans now move in lockstep on every issue, which makes it virtually impossible to do anything they disagree with. And they have chosen to disagree with everything as an electoral strategy.
Mnemosyne
@Deborah:
Well, yeah, because they didn’t get anything passed. Name any piece of major legislation that the Republicans passed other than No Child Left Behind (which was Ted Kennedy’s brainchild). The tax cuts went through reconciliation and were never put up for a full vote.
Elie
@Deborah:
It is however, fair to note that Republicans have NEVER attempted anything near as complex, difficult or with as much impact (besides war or tax cuts). They are simple beasts anyway and its much easier to get tight conformity when you are doing what is easy.
Crashman06
I hate the Democratic party and any Congressional Dem puss who is running, a la helicopter legs, away from HCR as fast as possible. Why do I bother supporting this party? They’re an incredible bunch of losers and wimps. I hate them, I hate them, I hate them!
/end rant, still pissed
Demo Woman
Mike Luckovich has a timely cartoon.
Elie
@Mnemosyne:
Also.
valdivia
@The Grand Panjandrum:
explain to me how this is possible? Everyone is already declaring defeat. The Obama presidency is over, just like that? with a 59 set majority in the senate and a majority in the House? What fucking useless aholes.
Michael
I was going to line the Captains of Industry on the wall next.
danimal
@Deborah:
That’s because the GOP has message discipline. There was plenty that they couldn’t get done, but they didn’t have every prima donna senator and representative undermining their agenda every time they hit a snag in their agenda.
Alex S.
Well… at least the Dems still have 59 seats, they better use them. Clinton’s situation was worse.
I liked Evan Bayh’s complaint that the Dems now have to move to the center. He tried to deflect the truth, that he is the embodiment of all that is wrong with Washington. I am not sure if Obama still has the power to pull himself out of the village mind. But he needs to take a stand now. As far as I know, Byron Dorgan retired for the same reason.
beltane
@tamied: St. Jude is the patron saint of causes that were already lost. Was there another saint that took winning causes and turned them into defeat? How about a saint who tied his feet together and then claimed his lack of mobility to be a miracle?
Elie
Also — hep, hep, hep everybody…
No giving up, no “turning ’round”
Lets get to work and stop whining about how much better the Republicans are. They are NOT. They do less, they care less and exploit weaknesses rather than bring their own strength to solving anything .
While this was clearly a screw up on the part of whatever portion of the Democrats or the candidate that you wish to single out, it is not the end of the world and indeed may help to focus attention more.
Lets run at this thing hard and keep running hard and ignore the bull about “its over”. In memory and example of Martin Luther King, we have to have a dream and we must pursue it through this Valley Forge time that Obama cited in his inaugural address —
So quit your bitchin and start the fixin’…we have work to do!
valdivia
What Ezra and one of his readers said.
at this point I want Obama to declare himself an independent and kick every democrat’s ass on the hill. Useless bunch the whole lot of them.
Punchy
Barney Frank gets frank and personally declares the HRC bill dead. Thank Mammogram Jesus that I have employee HC, cuz otherwise….
Cant wait for the immigration bill!
Kryptik
@valdivia:
It’s possible because cowardly Democrats are using the loss as an excuse to abandon ship, turn rightward, and kick any hope of actual progress to the curb in lieu of catering to the whims of the all powerful Republicans and their teabagger corps.
And unless Obama slams a hammer down, sits everyone down, and pulls out some cutthroat politics, nothings going to stop it. Reid’s obviously not going to, and the Senate essentially has made the House irrelevant.
eastriver
It’s time to pull out the nuclear option. Announce it Monday. HRC will pass, like it or not. Shove it through. Line up the votes, Harry. It’s your FUCKING JOB.
The Grand Panjandrum
@valdivia: They have to now fight tooth and nail to get it passed. Even more so than before. But the difference being that Obama has to get out front, speak often and publicly that they want health care reform passed. So far the only thing from the White House is a rather tepid response from David Axelrod. Even if they fail, they fail by trying, and not because it got tougher to do. They are quitting with the finish line in sight if they walk away now. They have alternatives, but walking away now, is a sign to anyone who supported them that they are weak.
jwb
@Shalimar: If this is true, then in fact a center-right (76-24) coalition would be far more stable (and governable) than center-left (61-39).
peach flavored shampoo
@Lolis: From what I’ve read, they’re not going to pass health care reform.
DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio
When the GOP had congress, they basically just drove the porkmobile. The LardTrain was rolling at full speed all the time.
They didn’t rack up those huge deficits by doing nothing. They were working around the clock to write themselves checks.
Lolis
@Elie:
I don’t believe Republicans are better. I don’t think they are more principled or more accomplished at achieving their goals, by any means.
But the way Dems like Feingold and Webb have come out basically attacking health care and ceding all their power to Republicans, is just shameful. If these douchebags won’t even stick together it makes it hard to stick by them.
Do you ever hear Olympia Snowe or Susan Collins trash their party, their Republican president, or their colleagues on the Sunday shows or CNN? No, you don’t. It seems like the Democratic caucus has some lessons to learn on teamwork. Otherwise nothing is going to get done.
Sasha
My guess is Obama is going to mostly be out of sight until the State of the Union address next week, and then attempt to roll a hard six.
What he can possibly say and do to refocus and reenergize the Democrats is beyond my ken.
John S.
Start by calling your congress critters and tell them to:
1) STFU about the bill being dead
2) Pass the fucking bill and move on
Brian J
@Matthew B.:
I know that, but I also know that this will quickly become accepted as if it’s something besides a joke.
John S.
Fixed for accuracy.
jwb
@peach flavored shampoo: We’ll surely have a blood bath come November. Well, unless the economy improves, we’ll probably have a blood bath any way, but it will be great fun seeing the Dems run on “we can’t do fuck-all, elect us again.”
Joel
@Deborah: I’m with you; I thought it was a miracle when Franken won and Specter switched. In retrospect, it really was just a burden.
The Democrats are, for their part, a coalition government. We can’t expect them to govern like the converse of Republicans, because they aren’t. This is actually a good thing, as much as I hate the foot-dragging of guys like Lieberman et al.
Tomlinson
@John S.:
It’s dead. Look how fast everyone is running away from it.
I’m of the opinion that it never was alive – that the senate voted a bill that was good, but which would not pass the house without revisions, revisions they could then reject.
Brown just gives them an early out. So now they will worry about other things.
The long term implications of that calculus are an exercise for the reader.
I will add this, I’m a pretty big O-bot, but it is becoming glaringly clear that he is simply over his head.
peach flavored shampoo
Patriot Act, part I and II
Mnemosyne
@John S.:
The fact that it’s Nancy who needs to whip people into line actually gives me a little hope that we can get it done. Remember, it was Nancy keeping the caucus together that killed Social Security privatization. She keeps getting lumped in with Reid for some reason, but Nancy gets shit done and keeps her caucus together.
Or, as she told the Blue Dogs who kept bugging her to tell them when the Democrats were going to announce their own privatization plan during that crisis: “How about never. Is never good for you?”
Mnemosyne
@peach flavored shampoo:
Patriot Act, part I and II
Great, so all we need to do is have another 3,000 Americans killed by terrorists and Obama can do whatever he wants!
beltane
@Punchy: Why does Massachusetts hate America? Geez, with Ted Kennedy gone, the Mass Dems have revealed themselves to be a bunch of losers, slackers and whiners.
Michael
I’m still wondering why anybody who is disappointed by a lack of enough stellar progressive legislation is so ready to let the GOP have everything again after barely a year.
It is the equivalent of taping a “KICK ME IN THE NUTS” sign on you own back.
Wondering what the cause is. Conditioning? Birth defect? Congenital stupidity?
You realize that if you hold your breath till you pass out, your situation really won’t change after you wake up, right?
valdivia
@Mnemosyne:
I am with you on this. I really want everyone to STFU about the bill being dead. It is only dead if people don’t stand up for it.
Michael
They don’t call ’em “massholes” for nothing.
PaulW
@Mnemosyne:
Why do people keep forgetting that the Republicans passed that massive Medicare/Pharma payout boondoggle?
Brian J
@Sasha:
Here’s a thought: tell the Republicans to fuck off in every way besides actually using the world “fuck” in his speech. Remind that that the small victory in Massachusetts aside, they are loathed by most of the country. Remind them that he, a black guy with the middle name Hussein, destroyed St. John McCain the Saint of Centrist Bipartisanship last November. Remind them, but more importantly voters, that they left us with the biggest pile of shit that any incoming president in decades has had to deal with. Call them out and demand that stand with the Democrats against the financial industry bleeding the country dry. Demand that they either agree to trying to trim the growth of public health programs or get out of the way. Call them out, by name if necessary, and cast them as the friends of big pharma, big insurance, and every big financial firm in the country. Come out swinging, demanding that the nonsense end, and that if they don’t act in a responsible manner, he will destroy them. Make them his enemy, because they are.
He’s not a stupid guy. Despite his gentile ways, I don’t think he’s a pussy, either. He can be a real prick if he needs to be–and he now needs to be. The press might not react positively to this, and the Republicans will certainly clutch their pearls and pretend as if this means the world is ending, but he shouldn’t pretend like he gives a fuck. He needs to act as if he’s tapping into the rage and frustration that a lot of people have. If he does, he will usually be on the right side politically and the right side legislatively.
If he’s in doubt of this strategy, he needs to realize that what is happening can be changed. And if he ends up failing, what is happening now could happen anyway, but if he never ends up trying, it will absolutely happen.
Elie
@Michael:
THIS!
WTF???
Napoleon
@Tomlinson:
I was saying that 6 months ago.
GregB
Thank God the stimulus bill was watered down with all of those tax cuts to lure Republican votes.
Now they will gladly take part of the blame for weak job creation and declare that tax cuts don’t necessarily create jobs.
Bipartisanship we can believe in.
-G
DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio
@Michael:
Only a little time ago, this was the venue when “kill the Republicans!” was the daily chant.
Now it’s “The Republicans Have Won Something — Fear the Republicans. Kill the Dems!”
You have to take this place with a large sack of sea salt.
You think the right has a bunch of twitchy, reactionary fools running around loose? You should see the left. We can match them Potatohead for Potatohead.
eastriver
@John S.:
No, you missed the reference to Nuclear Option. Which means ignoring the filibuster and going ahead and passing the conference bill. All the dems will be much happier. The other side will be hopping mad. But fuck ’em. I want to see some burst forehead blood vessels.
Tomlinson
Barney thinks they don’t have the votes to squeeze the senate bill past the house.
Game over.
Your best bet now is to try to get HCR going in your state.
Elie
@DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio:
LOL! You are right!
SiubhanDuinne
@Demo Woman:
Mike Lukovich is the one good thing about the AJC. Apart from him, it’s canary cage liner.
Rommie
They won’t push the Red Button now, if they wouldn’t do it before. The chances of actually losing power are now tangible instead of laughable, and that was enough of a threat to keep the Shiny Red Button safe from use.
There are enough D’s terrified of the retaliation the R’s will do to them if they get back to 51 or 50+VP because they know they will do it, and do it to them HARD, that no one will release the hounds.
Somehow they think that losing meekly will reduce the payback that will come, and that’s really the mistake the D’s are making. The GOP Senators will go Eye for an Eye no matter what, it’s the loss of power itself that has them in Furious Teabagger Rage. Sitting on their hands, hoping for mercy, is a ticket on the Failboat.
They’ll get force-fed tubes full of shit no matter what, so go down fighting, if you have to lose. Isn’t that what the MSM really wants anyway – political gladiator combat? It’s readily apparent that the voters want Stuff Done. To not do so fails the Political Survival test, so if they do, it almost has to be either Pure Stupidity or Money as the reason.
Zandar
Well if ya’ll don’t use that as a tag, I will.
danimal
@Lolis:
This.
I really wonder what the House Dems are thinking if they kill the bill after voting for it. There just isn’t an upside politically. The GOP won’t be graceful and say “bygones,” they’ll hammer away relentlessly.
After the HCR debate, Independents will obsess over the latest shiny toy the political/media complex unveils. HCR won’t be an issue this fall in the same way that Iraq hasn’t been an issue since Obama’s election. Remember when Iraq was going to dominate Obama’s term? Once an issue is settled, folks move on. The terrain for Dems is much better once HCR is behind us.
The problems with health care and insurance won’t go away if the bill doesn’t pass. If it does pass, we have a solid framework for going forward.
valdivia
@Tomlinson:
and since when is Frank the person in charge of counting votes? I am waiting for Nancy. And Barney Frank STFU.
Elie
@Tomlinson:
I cant know and dont necessarily believe one person’s now third or fourth hand account of someone he spoke with in Barney’s office. I would be cautious therefore.
Also, why promulgate such a negative predication anayway? Trying to help out those who want to kill it? What useful purpose does such empty speculation serve?
I doubt that you are an Obot but nice try anyway
mr. whipple
@DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio:
Yup.
jg
In malcolm gladwells book Blink he describes a war exercise where one team played by the rules and the other cared only for winning. Oddly enough the team that played by the rules was the blue team. The other team was red. The blue team got smoked. I couldn’t help but notice the parallels. Repubs aren’t playing the same game. The don’t want power so they can help people. They have the people help them get power. Somehow the people aren’t seeing that representation never comes. They’re too busy blaming dems for just about anything.
Reagan sucks. There I said it. Feels good to let that out. Our economy died in 1980. Just took us 30 years to see it.
DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio
@DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio:
I may have left out this important point: The whole reason why the GOP wants congress back is so that they can get back on the LardTrain.
They are robbers. They want the keys to the cashboxes.
This ain’t rocket science.
Bill Frist just called and said thanks for making his family as rich as the fucking Rockefellers.
John S.
Fuck, and the entire 19th district of Florida effectively has no representation right now because Robert Wexler vacated the seat 2 weeks ago.
So I can’t even call someone in Congress to bitch at.
Kryptik
@valdivia:
Except those who have already committed to not standing up for it are the ones who need to vote on the damn bill, and they’ve pretty much telegraphed that they’re not moving on it.
The Grand Panjandrum
@Elie: It isn’t third or fourth hand. Barney Frank released a statement.
DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio
@eastriver:
Love it. Our new theme song: “You’re So Vein.”
Heh.
GregB
On the bright side it’ll be fun throwing brickbats at all of my Masshole friends as Scott Brown starts dancing to Mitch McConnell’s tune. Which I’m sure will be Waterloo played on a banjo.
Dance nude boy, dance.
-G
Emo Pantload (fka Studly)
Days like this, it’s good to watch reruns of “West Wing” and be reminded that day in and day out, being PUSA is a shitty job, filled with shitty choices to make.
Frank Chow
I would say Evan Bayh beat everyone to it.
There was never a supermajority, it has always been Democrats, then Blue Dogs, and then the GOP. Seriously we should just photoshop “BD” next to everyone of them each time they go on teevee. They love their face time, but at least we can have the moral victory of mocking their inter party Party.
PaulW
I had dinner with my mom last night, and she ranted about how the Democrats created this massive health care package that was all patched together and mismanaged and whatnot, and she actually said “oh they should hold a committee on it and research what needs to be done.” And I’m thisclose to banging my head on the table in response, because I should have pointed out to Mom that the Dems had been debating this ALL YEAR! But she was right about one thing: they had 20+ plus years to know exactly what they needed to do to fix health care, and they STILL WASTED A WHOLE YEAR creating a package that pleased NOBODY. If they had any sense about it, they’d have kept the public option and had that crap finished and signed back in June.
I’ve got this goddamn feeling that everything from 1993 up to now has been a GODDAMN WASTE OF EVERYONE’S TIME. >:(
Mnemosyne
@PaulW:
You’re right, I do keep forgetting about that. That’s actually a perfect comparison, because it had zero Democratic support in the House and the Republicans had to keep the voting open for two extra hours so they could get all of the arms twisted.
So there we go: three examples (four if you count Patriot I and II separately) in six years. That’s some record of legislative success there. I think the Democrats beat that record within the first six months of 2009.
moe99
OT, but why not. Britain now admits gays to its military. Without making it a Big Deal.
http://rosecestlavie.blogspot.com/2010/01/matter-of-pride-gays-in-forces.html#comment-for
Mike E
@John S.:
I love quaint pre-internet traditions!
NR
@Lolis:
And if Congressional Dems pass the sloppy blowjob to the private insurance industry that is the Senate bill, I’m done with them.
SiubhanDuinne
@Sasha: I like to think that Obama is saying to himself something like, Okay, I’ve given it a full year, I’ve reached out to the Republicans, I’ve compromised with the Republicans, I’ve invited the Republicans to propose ideas. The Republicans have given me Sweet F.A. at every turn. So from here on out, I’m ignoring the Republicans, calling them on their bullshit, and working exclusively with the Democratic Majority in both chambers of the Congress thankyewverymuch. If the Republicans decide they want to play nicely, we’d be delighted to welcome them to the table. If not, they can get the frack out of the way.
Harry? Nancy?
Alex S.
I guess Obama needs to send a signal that he “understood”. While that doesn’t change things on its own and doesn’t really make reasonable sense many people simply aren’t reasonable. Maybe he should replace Tim Geithner with Paul Krugman or Joseph Stiglitz.
dr. bloor
@valdivia:
Frank is actually a superb vote counter and, just as a reminder, one of the good guys.
He doesn’t call HCR dead, he said the Senate bill won’t fly in the House. Grown-ups call this “maneuvering.” He knows goddamn well that going to the electorate in November without a bill of some sort will blow up on precisely the folks who are being the biggest pains in the ass in Congress right now.
Game. Not. Over.
valdivia
@The Grand Panjandrum:
sorry but Frank is an idiot for doing this and I really cannot for the life of me understand what the fuck is going on. At this pace they will have killed the Obama presidency by week’s end. I really have to stay away from the internet for at least a week until some sense returns to the dems.
NR
I think this will bring a useful data point to the discussion: Anti-Coakley Obama voters say that Dems aren’t doing enough.
Bottom line: If you want your base to turn out for you, you need to give them a reason to turn out for you.
But, what am I saying? I’m sure that yesterday’s election result is Jane Hamsher’s fault.
Mike E
@PaulW:
Yeah, instead of Groundhog’s Day, it’s been a Groundhog’s Generation.
arguingwithsignposts
Ahh, yes. Gone half the day and see nothing much has changed. Now I’m going to go eat lunch and work on something less pain-inducing, a dissertation.
Annie
“Waterboarding wins” — this from the gleeful
National Review.
I think I am going to be sick……………..
John S.
Barney Frank really does need to STFU:
I don’t even know how to respond to that, it’s so full of gibberish and contradictions.
dr. bloor
@arguingwithsignposts:
Just think of this as practice for the oral defense. You know, lots of intramural squabbling among intelligent people who should know better.
NR
@valdivia: Read this article. Frank believes, quite correctly, that passing the Senate bill will hurt the Dems more than doing nothing at all. Midterm elections, like special elections, are base elections, and passing the Senate bill will alienate both organized labor and young voters, two critical constituencies for Democrats.
Either pass a good bill using reconciliation or chuck the whole thing and move on. Passing the Senate bill is political suicide.
Brian J
Meanwhile, Glenn Beck has already found a reason to attack Brown. We went from zero to dead interns in just a day, it seems.
mr. whipple
So, if they kill this bill we can come right back and try again right? I mean, that’s what the kill the biller’s were saying.
Wonder how the Senate and House schedules are looking next week.
BombIranForChrist
I am currently watching an iTunes University webcast on the Civil War, and I will say this … as bad as we think all of this is, it really and truly pales in comparison to the insanity that preceded and succeeded the Civil War. I think I sometimes fall into the trap of thinking that we live in the worst age, but man oh man … at least no one has been beaten to within an inch of his life in the well of the Senate. Yet. And I don’t think we’re going to have another Civil War. I am pretty pissed at the incompetence of the Dems, but I am also trying to breathe deeply, using Dennis Hopper in Blue Velvet as my guide.
Mnemosyne
@NR:
So they stayed home and put a Republican in Ted Kennedy’s seat. Not only that, they ensured that the Democrats are going to ignore them next time, too, because now they know that they can’t be counted on when the chips are down.
As the Republicans say, the only poll that counts is the election. No one on this entire Earth is going to read this result as the Democrats being too conservative. In fact, they’re going to read it as the Democrats not being conservative enough. Because that’s what happens when the person to the left loses.
Staying home may feel good, but it’s the worst fucking strategy ever if you actually want to affect elections. Fundies still haven’t gotten their constitutional amendment to ban abortion that they’ve wanted for 40 years, but they still turn out in droves to vote for Republicans.
Citizen_X
I see that it is clearly time to review this bit of inspirational oratory.
dr. bloor
@BombIranForChrist:
Our new battle cry: “Healthcare Reform: Not As Bad As the Missouri Compromise.”
valdivia
@NR:
yeah yeah. Hamsher is right. yada yada yada, Kill the bill. Whatever.
This is the same bs we were fighting before and now we have to keep fighting except the idiots blathering are in Congress not the internet. They kill this the dems will be in the wilderness for ever as they deserve to.
as I said. worthless aholes if they do this.
Brian J
@BombIranForChrist:
I don’t think most reasonable people feel we are close to a second Civil War. I just think most people are incredibly frustrated that our side keeps finding new and innovative ways to lose when we don’t have to. Success is not always guaranteed, but it’s definitely more likely if the Democrats decide to actually grow a pair, even in the face of failure.
They aren’t doing this now, when they could easily start. Or at least that’s how I mostly feel.
SiubhanDuinne
@Emo Pantload (fka Studly): LOL. I usually have The West Wing on Bravo in the morning while I’m getting ready to go to work, and I’ve been thinking a lot recently that it would behoove Obama and Rahm and, well, really, the entire White House staff, to have a mandatory West Wing marathon, all seven seasons, start to finish, in order.
It’s really quite astonishing how frequently life imitates art :-)
cleek
@Deborah:
i hate to throw a wet blanket on this one, but actually, you did. they complained constantly. Google “Obstructionist Democrats 2004” (or 2005, or 2003, etc). or Google “up or down vote” or, “nuclear option”, etc..
Bush really didn’t get everything he wanted. he just got a few big things that Dems really hated. the vast majority of conservative wishes went unfulfilled (SS privatization?)
Piling On
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/01/now-call-the-gops-bluff.html#more
I am actually starting to think this might be the right way to go. The Democrats simply don’t have 59 votes. Nelson, Bayh, Lincoln are not Democrats, period. Nelson isn’t even a moderate Republican. No meaningful health care will emerge. Not sure if I would compromise on HCR with the Republicans, it might be worse than nothing. If Obama doesn’t want to compromise, make the GOP actually fillibuster.
I am in complete agreement that the SOTU should be about how broken the process is, especially the broken finances of this country. Point out that we have a structural deficit of $400 billion or so, and say you want a bi-partisan commission to solve it. The Democrats are almost as big a problem as the GOP. Force people like McConnell propose the cuts, see what he can come up with.
And for God sakes, announce that no earmarks will make it through. I guarantee you that will hurt the GOP more than the Dems.
danimal
Can anyone plausibly explain how HCR gets reintroduced in the next 10 years if this bill doesn’t pass. Without 50 solid votes in the Senate, the bill won’t pass via reconciliation. It just won’t. What are our other options?
So, how does a HCR bill pass?
Osprey
What I think a lot of people are missing, and it’s probably been said, but I think this is what the Dems (well, most of them, anyway) really wanted, was an excuse to not get HCR, and other legislation coming down the road, passed, or proper legislation passed to be succinct.
Look at the terms being thrown around. Centrism, Filibuster, Bipartisanship (this word is about as pleasant as ‘root canal’) and words of the like are nothing more than monikers for excuses to Not Get Shit Done. Yes, the whole filibuster issue is a great excuse, but I have no doubt this is making most of them happy now.
We’ll see the same thing with Bank reform. Does anybody think Obama and the Dems really really want to tighten the belt on those shoveling them money? Pffft.
They rode in on a wave of negativity towards the Republicans. However true the obstructionism is, and however true it may be that the mess we’re in is the fault of the Republicans, voters don’t want fucking excuses. Which is why there’s a pretty good chances the Dems are going to get kicked in the balls, repeatedly, during the mid-terms, and at this rate, 2012 will see another Republican president. Another ignoramous (not Palin and the like, but they’ll find a populist somebody who can carry a tune and preach to the masses about how the Dems fucked it up) will win.
Jim
@dr. bloor:
I agree Frank’s one of the good guys, but I’m damned if I can see what he’s doing here. Yes, there are all kinds of problems with the Senate bill (he specifically cites Nelson’s pro-life language, which, IIRC, is weaker than Stupak’s, which passed the House, so WTF?). Claire Fucking Nitwit McCaskill has now joined the Jim Webb Caucus. Starting over is not a fucking option
All this, as someone said, because of 100,000 personality voters in Massachussetts? My fucking head is spinning.
NR
@Mnemosyne:
Don’t tell it to me. I’m just the messenger.
The simple fact is that you ignore your base at your own peril. The Democrats need to learn this lesson, and fast, or 2010 is going to be a bloodbath.
celticdragonchick
@Tomlinson:
I’m beginning to feel the same way. The “No drama” thing from the primaries is looking like fatalistic disengagement now.
John S.
Fuck it. You manic progressives have it your way.
In fact, I would prefer for exactly this to happen. That way we can dispel the myth that ramming a progressive bill through is more electorally viable than passing a flawed bill through normal means and fixing it later. And when all the gleeful progressives show up in November to vote for all the Ralph Naders and magic ponies and get their asses handed to them, we can tell you to shut the fuck up for good.
I guess you just prefer being in the minority and bitching about the evil GOP majority. Long live the Order of Perpetual Victimhood.
beltane
@cleek: The Republicans painted Tom Daschle as a diabolically clever obstructionist who thwarted their every piece of legislation. As a Democrat, I found this to be highly amusing.
mr. whipple
We wait for the magical flying purple sparkly single payer pony to arrive. I can’t wait.
Citizen_X
@Joel:
Very true. Think of Democratic “control” of Congress as a minority government (in a parliamentary system) and GOP control as a majority government, and things make a lot more sense.
Just as infuriating, mind you, but making more sense.
Demo Woman
@Brian J: Hmmm
Beck appears to have gone after two repubs. I can’t imagine that Joe Scarborough is happy.
celticdragonchick
@Brian J:
Maybe not an honest to God civil war, but I think real political violence and bloodshed is real close to the surface.
geg6
@Sasha:
In other words, continue that winning strategy he’s used for the past year that got us such wonderful HCR and banking reform.
/snark, but not really
Hiram Taine
@Mnemosyne:
Joel
@jg: I think you missed the point of the anecdote.
The blue team, which represented the US military, had massive air, naval, and ground superiority and the exercise was planned with the object of obliterating the red team (some unnamed vastly inferior middle eastern force). The leader of the red team, Paul Van Ryper (sp?) basically used guerilla tactic and low-level insurgency strategy with speedboats and cruise missiles to destroy blue’s naval superiority and aircraft carriers. Staggering defeat for them. Naturally, the brass didn’t like that so they reran the exercise with blue team guaranteed victory.
A lot of people speculate that it was practice in the runup to Iraq, and I agree, although the red team’s forces were supposedly given Israel’s military capability because Iraq was considered too weak an opponent.
NR
@John S.:
Sure. Let’s just ignore the fact that a strong public option has routinely polled at 60-70% support and the current Senate bill has about 20-30% support. You’re right – if progressives want something, it must be massively unpopular. After all, David Broder has repeatedly told us so.
Mr Furious
@John S.:
Frank:
If they actually pulled the nuclear option FIRST and then reopened the HCR discussion with a 50+1 strategy, I could get behind that.
That will absolutely not happen, so Frank needs to STFU.
Passing the Senate bill is the only option left. It’s that or nothing. And if it’s nothing, then the Democrats will deservedly get slaughtered come November.
John
@Jim:
I think Frank is saying that the more liberal language on abortion in the Senate bill makes it more difficult to pass because pro-lifers like Stupak will vote against it.
dr. bloor
@Jim:
I think there are messages to a number of parties in his rant–which you can rest assured he knew would go viral–but I think there’s a specific one to the new junior senator from Massachussetts: Go lockstep with Demint and the other lunatics, and you won’t be around long enough to enjoy all the leftover heat from Ted Kennedy’s ass in that seat.
Brown’s ego, his lack of principles and his desire to be a long-term playa might be used to our advantage here.
geg6
@SiubhanDuinne:
And your pony is on the way.
I wish you were right, but all evidence points to the opposite.
Joel
@NR: I think it’s awfully difficult to compare polling on something that’s nebulous and intangible (a public option) that’s not being discussed in congress to an actual bill, with actual costs and actual compromises. Just me.
Deborah
@danimal:
Re message discipline: exactly. I’m not arguing that they got everything passed they wanted–Bush’s tax cuts will expire, the patriot act was not renewed, and we didn’t put social security in the stock market. But they didn’t whine about how they couldn’t get anything passed because they really needed 61 seats, 70 cause some of the “R”s were impure. They didn’t try to run on how the Democrats in the minority wouldn’t let them do anything.
The FiredogLake bit quoted downpage was great.
John S.
Don’t go there! Manic progressives like NR prefer their magic ponies.
geg6
@Mnemosyne:
You do understand that most Democrats, including me, aren’t as stupid as the fundies? I won’t vote for or support the election coffers of people who don’t come through on my issues. Just because fundies are happy to do that, I’m supposed to?
Tecumseh
@beltane: The Democrats could have ran on Republican obstructionism and probably should have done this from the get-go but they would have needed to start framing the damn story early on. If every fifth word they said was “filibuster” or “obstructionist” or a challenge given to Republicans to say what they’d do to solve all these problems, they might have been able to pull it off. But for whatever reason, they never spoke out about it and Obama didn’t speak out about it and it might be too late to play that card. It’s one of the reason’s why the press doesn’t care too much about the filibuster because the Democrats don’t seem to care that much.
And I hope this doesn’t spark a war or words but I always thought progressives/activists/liberals/me should light a fire under the MSM to get them to wake up to how the filibuster makes an already broken political system that much worse. Like spam Broder’s inbox about it to the point even he starts getting it.
Tomlinson
It doesn’t. It doesn’t get picked up by anyone, anytime soon, except maybe de-regulation and tort reform by the repubs.
That’s it.
And if you are thinking that the system will melt down, you are right.
Single payer here we come, via medicare.
Is that grim? You bet your ass. It’s fucking armageddon. But that is the choice that the weak-kneed legislators we call “democrats” have left us with.
As for FDL, congrats to them. They’ve helped move the Overton Window one small shitload to the right. All their fault? Nope, but they basically wrote Brown’s talking points against the senate bill.
Yay for our team.
Elie
@The Grand Panjandrum:
WTF — what is the point of this, tell me?
In line what valdivia says downstring from your comment — Why? Are we trying to kill it and if so, why?
valdivia
@John S.:
yeah, this too.
Napoleon
@NR:
You are nuts if you believe that. It is suicide not to pass it.
NR
@Joel: Well, fortunately, we have polling on the House bill to compare the Senate bill to. Health care reform was MUCH more popular back when the House bill passed then it is now that the Senate bill is all anyone is talking about.
No magic ponies. Just hard data. Sorry if some people here don’t like that.
NR
@Napoleon: Right, because the Democrats will do SO well in November with organized labor and the 18-29 crowd sitting the election out.
cleek
@NR:
the Dems will do fine, if they get good candidates.
if they put up another batch of milquetoast centrist DINO-lites, then voters will have the choice between a fired-up Republican or another passionless, pointless blue dog. if people are tired of the same-old DC, electing blue dogs is exactly the opposite of what they need to do, because blue dogs merely enforce the status quo. “throw the bums out in the primary should be the Dems’ M.O..
but, this being the Democratic party, i expect to see a giant batch of conservative Dems who will get crushed by voters who would prefer a real conservative to one who can’t seem to make up his mind.
batgirl
@valdivia: What did Ezra say for those of us who refuse to give the WaPo a page hit?
Mnemosyne
@geg6:
As long as you’re happy with the government the fundies are building because you didn’t show up, be my guest and stay home. They may be stupid sheep, but they’re the ones running the show.
If you’re not happy with the past 30 years of Republican rule, maybe it’s time to change the “staying home” strategy for something that will actually work.
Mnemosyne
@cleek:
Good luck with that. It looks like even Kos has given up on the idea of getting more and better Democrats barely 5 years into the project and I doubt anyone else is going to come along who’s going to be able to herd the cats towards places like ActBlue.
Mnemosyne
@NR:
If they haven’t learned that lesson in the past 40 years of the left staying home and not voting, what makes you think they’re magically going to straighten up and learn it this time?
Again, I thought we had a new strategy, but apparently since it didn’t immediately fix every problem with our electoral system, we’re supposed to throw up our hands and cede everything to the Republicans again.
Elie
@geg6:
Hmmm – Geg I thought at one point you said that you would never stay home or not vote for a Democrat against a Republican. Did I misunderstand? I can certainly understand not providing financial support, but not voting is defacto voting for the Republicans. Is that desirable and/or justifiable in your view?
Mnemosyne
@NR:
Is that the same poll where people said they didn’t actually know what was in the Senate bill and thought the media had done a very poor job of informing them? Because that’s, you know, kind of important in interpreting the poll.
Brian J
@celticdragonchick:
What makes you think that? The only people who are threatening violence are members of the extreme right, and it’s only a few of them, not most of them.
priscianus jr
59-40 minority. Fucking ridiculous when you think about it. I thought we were supposed to have representative government.