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You are here: Home / Why Didn’t We Think of That?

Why Didn’t We Think of That?

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These are the people who defeating the Democratic agenda while in the minority:

Specter later went after Bachmann for saying she voted for “prosperity.”

“She said ‘I voted for prosperity,'” Specter said. “Well prosperity wasn’t a bill.”

“Well why don’t we make it a bill?” Bachmann responded.

Suck it Libtards! How come you never passed a “Prosperity” bill? Also, can we please pass the “stink free litter box and supermodels for every middle aged male bill” soon?

I can’t believe the Democrats can’t defeat this kind of argument. I feel like Jon Lovitz in that classic Dukakis SNL skit.

And how much do you want to bet all the media morans will get out of this is that Specter was not nice enough to Bachmann? My money is on Chucky T. for this one, but Halperin might be done with his gossip tour and need a “scoop.”

Reader Interactions

143Comments

  2. 2.

    CaseyL

    Wait, aren’t you supposed to be in surgery about now?

    Or are they letting you post from the OR?

    On Topic: I got nothin’. I’m too disheartened. I’m actually starting the process of getting my kitties certified rabies-free so I can move to NZ in 6 months.

  3. 3.

    Mary

    Did you see that Toomey is leading Specter and Sestak? This country is a right wing cesspool. It’s unbelievable.

  4. 4.

    beltane

    To paraphrase George Carlin: Think of how stupid the average person is. Then, think about how half the population is dumber than the average person.

    An awful lot of Americans will think: “Yeah, why don’t they make a Prosperity Bill?”

  5. 5.

    Max

    WTF is wrong with the citizens who keep electing Bachmann?

    She’s up every two years, and her district keeps sending her back.

    Elections have consequences.

  6. 6.

    JGabriel

    “She said ‘I voted for prosperity,’” Specter said. “Well prosperity wasn’t a bill.”
    __
    “Well why don’t we make it a bill?” Bachmann responded.

    Let’s give Bachmann what she’s asking for. We can do a combined financial regulation & jobs bill, and call it “The Patriotic Restore American Prosperity Act”.

    Make her vote against that.

    .

  7. 7.

    Comrade Dread

    I think Democrats should really ask Republicans to pick a number, tell us exactly how low taxes would have to be to please them, and then draw up a list of cuts that would balance the budget, and none of this nickle and dime cuts, we’re talking cuts in the trillions of dollars.

    Upon their refusal (because really, they aren’t going to say out loud they’d be willing to gut Medicare and Social Security just to funnel money to Wall St.), the Democrats should tell them to shut the hell up.

  8. 8.

    DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio

    I’m actually starting the process of getting my kitties certified rabies-free so I can move to NZ in 6 months.

    Good lord. In the Sixties, we flipped off people with “America – Love It Or Leave It” stickers.

    Now, we have become the people who are talking about leaving it because THOSE SHITTY PEOPLE WITH THE STICKERS had a good week?

    Fuck that. I ain’t leavin. I’m here, and I’m stayin. We still outnumber those sonsabitches. I am not throwing in the towel and leaving the country to those idiots.

  9. 9.

    freelancer

    I fail to see what’s wrong with legislating prosperity. Bachmann is already on the record as calling out her ideological opponents on their non-pro-freedom agendas.

  10. 10.

    R-Jud

    @DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio:

    I am not throwing in the towel and leaving the country to those idiots.

    Hear hear. I live outside the country, and I’d like to come back. The main thing keeping us here in Britain is my pre-existing condition. So don’t quit fighting, please.

  11. 11.

    moe99

    Legislating prosperity is nothing more than socialism. But Bachman hasn’t figured that out yet.

  13. 13.

    BlueDWarrior

    Well it’s hard to argue down someone who basically refuses to admit to the premise of the argument itself.

    It’d be like watching a College Math Department chair trying to tell a 3 year old that 2 + 2 =/= 5.

    Republicans have realized it’s easy to win an argument when you refuse to acknowledge the premise of the argument to begin with and eventually wait for the Democrat to get all pissy and try and choke them with a camera cord.

  14. 14.

    JGabriel

    Max:

    WTF is wrong with the citizens who keep electing Bachmann?

    Religious fundamentalism. This has been another edition of: SATSQ.

    Seriously, her district is way fundie.

    .

  16. 16.

    Citizen_X

    “Well why don’t we make it a bill?”

    Well, why not? Prosperity’s got electrolytes, don’t it?

  19. 19.

    ronin122

    I should comment that I came up with “Chucky T” a while back and am amused to see it here; not sure if I ever wrote the term on here or not (I don’t blog, I just lurk around them).

    That said, we’re screwed.

  21. 21.

    Bill H

    I’m actually starting the process of getting my kitties certified rabies-free so I can move to NZ in 6 months.

    My niece and her husband lived in NZ for 18 months due to his job. It is colder than shit there, with summers that are colder than our winters, and no I’m not just talking about the seasons being reversed. There are no people; what we call a village here they call a “city.” You have to order actual food from the US or eat weeds and sheep that are grown locally.

  22. 22.

    Glocksman

    I don’t know about the ‘stink free litter box’ part, but I’d vote for any Congressman that introduced a bill that supplied middle aged men with supermodels*.

    The problem is that after it gets watered down by Baucus and Landrieu, we’d have to settle for MILF’s, Cougars, and (for the women) Senator Brown.

    I guess I could live with the compromise.

    *To be fair, the law would also supply romance novel cover models to middle aged women.

  23. 23.

    Waynski

    @Comrade Dread — This. I like that idea. Especially since you’d also have to massively cut the defense budget to get to balance.

  26. 26.

    General Winfield Stuck

    Dumber than six sacks of hatchets. If I lived in Michelle Bachman’s district they would likely find me hanging from a church belltower wearing 3 wetsuits with a note saying FUCK THIS SHIT glued to my ass.

  27. 27.

    catclub

    jgabriel @ 6

    I thought you were going to make bill name with the initials
    PRIAPIC, but you missed a little.

  29. 29.

    gwangung

    I don’t know about the ‘stink free litter box’ part, but I’d vote for any Congressman that introduced a bill that supplied middle aged men with supermodels*. I guess by the time it gets watered down by Baucus and Landrieu, we’d have to settle for MILF’s, Cougars, and (for the women) Senator Brown.

    Careful. You’d get wingnut support forever with that…

  31. 31.

    danimal

    Ya know, as upset as I am about the potential HCR capitulation, I can get around the “stink-free kitty litter and supermodels for middle aged dudes” agenda pretty wholeheartedly.

  32. 32.

    Tsulagi

    @Max:

    WTF is wrong with the citizens who keep electing Bachmann?

    Hey, don’t knock Bachmann. I like her.

    You got your manufactured loon like Beck. There’s the 75% loon, but 25% smart enough to sell it to dumber ones for the bucks like Palin. Then you have 100% pure like Bachmann. She’s like the VSOP in a sea of mundane loons.

  35. 35.

    JenJen

    O/T, but I just saw on Twitter that Air America is suspending live programming today. More awesome news on another awesome day.

    ETA: Yeah, yeah, I know nobody is surprised, but how’s that for timing, eh? Announcement on their home page, here: http://airamerica.com/

  37. 37.

    Zifnab

    WTF is wrong with the citizens who keep electing Bachmann?

    Well, for one thing they keep getting suckered into head counts by the census. Hopefully, that changes in 2010.

  39. 39.

    J. Michael Neal

    I’m thinking of leaving the country for Australia, but that’s for reasons that go beyond just the fact that we are so fucked up here. For one, I just want a clean, fresh start. I’m hoping that moving as far away as possible, I might manage to leave some emotional baggage behind.

    Two, I probably have as many good friends in Sydney as I have here; yay Internet!

    Three, my fibromyalgia is much better in a dry climate; Minnesota is too humid for me. However, my fibromyalgia is also a pre-existing condition, preventing me from getting health coverage pretty much anywhere in this fucked up country except Minnesota, so all of the domestic possibilities are out if we can’t pass this fucking bill.

  42. 42.

    Cat Lady

    Today reminds me of the day Ronald Fucking Reagan got elected. I was gobsmacked. I couldn’t believe that everyone couldn’t see what I saw, as to who he was and what would come. I questioned so many of my own assumptions as to the ability of middle class educated folks to understand what their own interests were as citizens of this country and the planet – we are actually all in this together. 30 years later all I can say is green balloons.

  43. 43.

    Zifnab

    @JenJen:

    O/T, but I just saw on Twitter that Air America is suspending live programming today. More awesome news on another awesome day.

    Look, I’m sorry, but Air America was bass-ackward. AM Radio is what people listen to when they forget to bring their iPods into the car. They were trying to take it to Limbaugh on his own turf and they were in the absolute wrong marketplace. :-p

    I mean, we got Rachael Maddow and Al Franken out of it, which is great and all. But seriously, radio? Wtf, people? That whole industry has been crumbling for decades.

  45. 45.

    gypsy howell

    So why doesn’t she draft one? I’d love to read it.

    My Prosperity Bill
    by Michelle Bachmann

    TITLE 1 — MY PROSPERITY BILL

    SEC 1. INCREASE PROSPERITY
    a) Cut taxes.
    ( 1) All of them.

    b) Deregulate everything

    c) Drill Baby Drill.

    d) Increase military spending
    (1) A lot

    e) Pray to Jesus.

  46. 46.

    Remember November

    Required reading for the GOP insanigentsia: The Secret

    because prayers will get you ponies and rainbows!

  47. 47.

    GregB

    I for one hope the Democrats lose enough seats in the 2010 elections to regain the majority.

    -G

  48. 48.

    Comrade Luke

    Look, I’m a one issue voter – I have an issue with Republicans – so none of this will change my mind, but posts like this are good to have periodically so we can be reminded of what lies ahead if the Republicans take control back.

    And today’s SCOTUS ruling is another reminder that no matter how it gets, the President needs to be a Democrat because the president nominates the Supreme Court.

  49. 49.

    Michael

    We’re Weimar, only without all the sport fucking before the fascist rise.

    Two things can brake this truck – the death by coronary of one fat assed, shit talking, needs-to-be-punched-in-the face-daily propagandist with a three hour daily spew, and death panels for the sorts of old white people who love him.

    I feel like throwing up, because I’m spooked at the sort of future that conservatism offers my children. Personally, I’m guessing at a whole lot of death and unrest and attempted genocide, the most horrific being perpetrated by the dreadfully persecuted white*spit* Christian*spit* male plurality.

    All because they don’t want n*****s or sp**s to be equal.

  51. 51.

    fraught

    Can I go all ad hominem On Chuck T. and add that anyone who can’t manage his hair plugs well enough to avoid looking like a perv’s Uncle Perv shouldn’t be telling us what to think about our President?

  52. 52.

    Michael

    PS – I really wish Nero had come from a background that included a stronger work ethic. Lazy fucker.

    Shoulda used some hungrier lions, too.

  53. 53.

    JenJen

    @Zifnab: I don’t get Air America in my market, but listened a lot back when Sirius still covered their programming. Of course, now that channel is “Sirius Left” and they air Lynn Samuel and Alex Bennett, who basically spend several hours a day bashing Obama and calling anyone who voted for him an idiot. Good times.

    ETA: Isn’t Air America where Ana Marie Cox landed? She bounces around a lot, so not so sure if she just became unemployed again.

  54. 54.

    JPK

    This is like kids asking their parents why there isn’t a “Children’s Day” if there’s a Father’s Day and a Mother’s Day. Every bill out of these cretins–TARP, tax cuts, bankruptcy, you name it–is a Prosperity Bill for those already prosperous. The rest of us don’t count.

  55. 55.

    Glocksman

    @Cat Lady:

    I was 13 years old in 1980.
    That said, I still remember that Carter had problems other than the Iranian Hostage Crisis that put him in a bad light.

    Bert Lance, Brother Billy, and Jody Powell didn’t help him a bit.

    Personally I think Carter had potential but was done in by a combination of factors, including an inability to be ruthless enough politically when it came to dealing with both his friends and enemies.

    Reagan came along and offered a simple platform tailored to appeal to ‘honest, hardworking Americans’ that sounded too good to be true (and it was), but people bought the bullshit.

  57. 57.

    NobodySpecial

    @Comrade Luke:

    Yep, Obama gets to replace maybe another SC slot with someone who thinks like he does.

    And what luck, Tim Geithner doesn’t have a job right now!

    /snark

  59. 59.

    DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio

    @Narcissus:

    Um, have you seen Neil Caputo?

    Okay, just saying. Come on, we need to lighten up around here. Enough with the long faces.

    Which reminds, on Tuesday, I had to call my doctor. I was having an election that lasted more than four hours.

  60. 60.

    dr. bloor

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    If I lived in Michelle Bachman’s district they would likely find me hanging from a church belltower wearing 3 wetsuits with a note saying FUCK THIS SHIT glued to my ass.

    Had no idea you were a Republican.

  61. 61.

    Sinister eyebrow

    I can’t be too hard on Specter. Honestly, what do you say when some wild-eyed loony runs up to you and asks why you didn’t vote for nonexistent nonsense? Bachman may as well have just called a press conference to announce herself as Queen of Nebraska and then made fart noises with her armpit. It would make just as much sense. She’s lucky she wasn’t escorted out by security.

  63. 63.

    Bruce (formerly Steve S.)

    I can’t believe the Democrats can’t defeat this kind of argument.

    They did defeat it quite soundly in 2006 and 2008. But then there’s that pesky problem of actually governing.

  64. 64.

    gypsy howell

    @Cat Lady:

    You and me both, sister. I remember very clearly sitting at a bar with my friends, commiserating about the fact that America as we knew it growing up was going to come to an end.

    Look how far we’ve fallen in 30 years.

  65. 65.

    DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio

    @Fwiffo:

    We’ll just pass a bill mandating that people be prosperous or subject to a fine. Seems pretty simple.

    Well, you never know. We asked some people why they kept parking in that no parking zone down the street. They said, well the sign says “Fine for Parking.”

    You can’t win for losing any more.

  67. 67.

    Bondo

    I’m a great admirer of Balloon Juice, but you’ve spent the last 6 months ridiculing people with “Just Words!” posts because they were upset that Obama and Congress were dragging their feet.

    Now, when hope is all but lost, you’re finally getting off your feet.

    Welcome to the club, guys.

  68. 68.

    scudbucket

    @J. Michael Neal: Dude, my nephew saw the writing on the wall when Bush got elected (he’s sabby and decisive) and emigrated to NZ. Took a couple years and many thousands of dollars, but he’s got dual citizenship now. He misses family, American geography, etc, but loves being there. He also gets to piggyback family members. Im thinking about it.

  69. 69.

    MikeJ

    I’m thinking of leaving the country for Australia, but that’s for reasons that go beyond just the fact that we are so fucked up here.

    Australia is not the country to go to to flee right wing morons.

  70. 70.

    arguingwithsignposts

    the “stink free litter box and supermodels for every middle aged male bill”

    I think I just got an e-mail from a progressive PAC asking me to sign a petition regarding that bill. Let me go check …

  71. 71.

    Comrade Luke

    @NobodySpecial: Look, I’m as upset with how things are going as you, but if you honestly believe that anyone – ANYONE – Obama picks won’t be an order of magnutide better than the most “liberal” justice any Republican would pick, there’s no hope for you.

  72. 72.

    DFS.

    Shouldn’t, I dunno, a deep-sea tube worm have the wit and intellect to put Michelle Bachmann into her place?

  73. 73.

    Darryl

    “We have to get a bill passed — we know that. That’s a predicate that we all subscribe to.” -Nancy Pelosi

    I like her saying this. I don’t think hope is lost.

  74. 74.

    freelancer

    @Fwiffo:

    We’ll just pass a bill mandating that people be prosperous or subject to a fine.

    “I’ll often yell at homeless people: ‘Hey, how is that homelessness working out for you? Try not being homeless for once.'”

  75. 75.

    Laura W

    I’m sorry. I just looked up from the Mac and realized Tweety is discussing John Edwards asking A. Young to scoop poo poo from baby daughter Quinn’s diaper for DNA testing?

    Greece?
    Wales?
    Greece?
    Wales?

  78. 78.

    gwangung

    @Bondo: If you think we were saying that, then either

    a) we’re as bad as BTD in articulating our message, or

    b) you’re not quite getting what we were saying.

  81. 81.

    Donald G

    My brother and I have often thought that if only Al Gore had stolen that line from SNL in one of his debates with Bush back in 2000, the postmodern knowingness of the remark might just have changed the history of the 2001-2009 period.

  82. 82.

    Jorge

    As a drug rep living in the bible belt I know I’m in a unique position, but folks are absolutely going nuts over this. Every time they go to their doctor’s office their physician is telling them that he’ll probably be retired next year because he won’t be able to keep the lights on under Obamacare. Then folks pay their Medicare or Medicaid co-pay for their latest blood sugar tests before going to have lunch at McDonald’s. All irony completely lost on everyone.

    Democrats either need to pass a bill in the next few days or scrap HCR. Because as long as the bill is some theoretical socialist take over of government, the right is going to happily make it the single issue of 2010 like it was the single issue of the second half of 2009.

  84. 84.

    Donald G

    @freelancer:

    “I’ll often yell at homeless people: ‘Hey, how is that homelessness working out for you? Try not being homeless for once.’”

    Ah, the Rush Limbaugh strategy.

  85. 85.

    dr. bloor

    @Carrie:

    Ugh…saw his post earlier in the day when things were still up in the air. Now officially The Shittiest Week Evar.

  86. 86.

    R-Jud

    @Glocksman:

    I’d vote for any Congressman that introduced a bill that supplied middle aged men with supermodels*.

    So would I, if it means said middle-aged men would stop bugging me at the gym.

    @Laura W:

    I am about 40 miles from the Welsh border. You can totally stay with us while you scope out real estate. The Wye Valley is very nice, but if you want to be near the coast, I recommend Glamorgan rather than North Wales/Snowdonia. You can still get decent coffee in parts of Glamorgan.

  90. 90.

    Bob L

    Do keep in mind this Specter we’re talking about who is only a Democrat because he wasn’t crazy enough for the Wingnuts. Of course the real question is “so why didn’t the Democrats say ‘you made you party, now live with it.”?

  91. 91.

    Laura W

    @R-Jud: I’m totally diggin’ Laura From Glamorgan.
    Thanks for the first half-smile of my day.
    (Plus, all my life I’ve dreamed of marrying a Brit, so you know…MEANT TO BE and all.)

  93. 93.

    maus

    And how much do you want to bet all the media morans will get out of this is that Specter was not nice enough to Bachmann?

    Oh god, no money at all, I’m no sucker.

    As a drug rep living in the bible belt I know I’m in a unique position, but folks are absolutely going nuts over this. Every time they go to their doctor’s office their physician is telling them that he’ll probably be retired next year because he won’t be able to keep the lights on under Obamacare

    How the fuck do we compete with this level of ignorance? It encompasses all levels of education, not just the Joe the Plumbers. You have perfectly educated people like Doctors and engineers responding just as well (if not better!) to the lies than the dumber conservatives.

  95. 95.

    Yossarian

    Raul Grijalva says he won’t for the Senate bill under any circumstances.

    Fuck it. I’m drinking tonight. Your Congress at work.

  99. 99.

    dr. bloor

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    Care to explain your unsolicited flame?

    Edit–Ah, I thought you were torching my comment to Carrie. Yeah, it was a joke. If your going to create an image of yourself in a wet suit, you should probably expect jokes about being a Republican. Probably a little too subtle for you, though.

  100. 100.

    asiangrrlMN

    @beltane: I completely agree with you. My first reaction was that a lot of people would cheer for a ‘Prosperity’ Bill without even caring to know what’s in it.

    There are many many stupid people in the world, and many many of them live in Bachmann’s district–one of our odd pockets of batshitcrazywingernuts. Some people literally cannot grasp reason that doesn’t square with what they think they know.

    @Glocksman: Yuck. Give me Alan Rickman or give me death. No pretty boys or girls for me, thankyewverymuch. Ugh.

  101. 101.

    Joe Bauers

    …And that’s why we’re screwed. The single root cause underlying everything, is that this is a country of morons. Why can the Republicans’ obstruct everything? Because there’s no cost to it. Why not? Because the public doesn’t understand what they’re doing. Why not? Because they’re morons.

  102. 102.

    Cat Lady

    @jnfr:

    Me three, and it’s only Thursday. I used to wake up during Bush/Cheney and wonder what new horror awaited. It’s deja vu all over again.

    + not enough

  103. 103.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @dr. bloor: if you will explain your response earlier. Maybe i took it wrong, talk to me.

    flames aren’t solicited, they just happen. and that wan’t really a flame.

  104. 104.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Chad N Freude: Ditto this. dr. boor is joking. Because the guy who was found with the two wetsuits and the dildo was a Republican. Therefore…come on! It was a joke.

    @R-Jud: 28-48, either gender. (10 years on either side of me). See Alan Rickman as an example.

    @Carrie: Poor TBogg. I just sent him my condolences.

  105. 105.

    Darryl

    I would emigrate. I think America is heading rapidly for Third World status. But not to Australia, and here’s why:

    Australia is a federation, and responsibility for censorship is divided between the states and the federal government. Censorship of Video Games and Internet sites hosted in Australia are considered to be the strictest in the western world.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Australia

  107. 107.

    demkat620

    “I’m going to treat you like a lady,” Mr. Specter shot back. “Now act like one.”

    That’s the headline on RCP blog.

    So there you go.

  108. 108.

    Bondo

    @ gwangung

    Well, here’s a post (from just two weeks ago!) conveniently titled “Just Words” where John ends by saying

    Change is happening. We’re just arguing with each other about the pace.

    I hope we can all realize now that we’d be better off if they had picked up the pace before. That way there would be no need for urgent 12th hour phone calls to congress. The good times weren’t going to last forever.

    While situation is dire, I like the site, and it’s somehow reassuring that BJ is still slow on the uptake (the belated realization that Bush was awful being the most prominent example).

  109. 109.

    Chad N Freude

    @asiangrrlMN: But isn’t there a lot of entertainment in watching two like-minded individuals get into a catfight over a misunderstanding? More popcorn!

  111. 111.

    asiangrrlMN

    @R-Jud: I know. He is my exception to the rule on age. And, yes, I would trade places with her for a day in a heartbeat. And, he is NOT yours! I called dibs way before anyone else, and it the fine tradition of the intertoobz, that means he’s MINE!

    Ooooh, girlfight!

    @Chad N Freude: Oooh, you posted that at the same time I posted my own challenge to R-Judd over the comely visage of Mr. Rickman! Spooky.

  112. 112.

    Bender

    So Bachmann upset poor old senile Mushmouth Specter. And she responded to a stupid line from Specter about “well, prosperity wasn’t in the bill” with a stupid line of her own.

    Yeah, that’ll be the story here. In your dreams.

    Speak when I tell you to speak, ladies! I will not be interrupted by a woman! Stick to your knitting and make me a goddamn sandwich!

    Specter was a moron when he was an (R), and he’s a moron now that he’s a (D). Now, he’s a dead moron (D), and you all know it.

  113. 113.

    General Winfield Stuck

    Probably a little too subtle for you, though.

    Liberals use the wetsuit thing all the time, by virtually putting themselves in the company of wingnuts. I remember a certain front pager doing it imagining being the husband of Mark Sanford’s wife. Doesn’t really lead directly to being a republican, it’s a joke in itself and snark. And you didn’t get it. So yea kinda of uninformed with internet trads on yer part. Nothing to do with subtlelty though.

    using such an opportunity to call someone a republican cause you want to take a subtle shot and claim it was a joke is what I think you did. still do.

    As was the above quote of yours a shot. That’s cool, Carry on dude.

  114. 114.

    chicago dyke

    Hey Juicers/Balloonists:

    thanks for the thoughtful responses (and a little assholeism) i got on the last thread. this place moves pretty fast so i thought i’d drop my responses here. i’ll restate my question for those who missed it.

    i like this blog and read it all the time, for all i don’t comment here much. i can tell i’m out of step with the majority of people here, and i’m not into flamewars. but i’m curious: what is it that you folks are calling and asking them to pass? the Senate version of the bill? something else? if it’s the Senate version: what do you like about it, and what do you think it will do for you?
    i’m opposed to the Senate version of the bill, unchanged. i would like have something like Medicare for all, or even the crazy dream of european style universal single payer. i’ve always been like that, and agitated for that. i also work in health care, from a family of health care professionals. so i consider myself fairly “informed” about health care issues, beyond what i read on blogs (which is considerable). anyway, i just wanted to understand better what folks here are demanding their reps when they’re making these calls. not in any way trying to start a flame war.

    and i got some interesting responses, including:


    What I NEED is for the weaksauce Democratic caucus to produce SOME kind of results after this past year of bullshit, or the Democratic party is going to literally die, and we get nothing, ever.

    Move to Europe.

    I don’t like the senate bill, but the problem in DC is that if they don’t get even something of that magnitude passed, they won’t get anything passed for another decade. Medicare for all has no chance at this point. As time passes, the bill gets worse. We need to get them to pass the senate bill and then add amendments here and there over the next year or two to fix the things we don’t like.

    to me, this is about politics rather than substance.

    I don’t think any of us here like the Senate bill, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t the most substantial reform we’ve had in health care in decades. Further, the Senate bill will insure more people. Not as many as most of us would like, but still, not enough is better than none at all. Also, I’m wary of the budgetary gun barrel we’ll be staring down if we don’t pass the bill. We need to change the trajectory of health care costs now or this country could very well go bankrupt.

    fascinating! thank you, i appreciate good debate a lot. i spend my time at lesser blogs, in terms of popularity and message, so sometimes i feel really out of touch with “moderates” and “mainstream” liberals and dems. it’s ok, i’m used to it! :-)

    i guess i’m still unclear about what folks think they are going to receive from the bill, specifically. i manage the HC paperwork for two charges who are unable to do so for themselves, due to health reasons. obviously, they need a lot of care. so my biggest worry has to do with the increased workload, and expense, that people like the ones i care for, will have to pay and deal with. fixed income americans are pretty common right now. asking some of them to pay even $200 or $500 more/mo is literally taking food out of some people’s mouths. ymmv, but i think the Senate version, and anything likely to come out of this round of ‘reconciliation’ is likely to do only one thing: direct money we don’t have to insurance companies who don’t really need it for not much more and possibly worse than we have now. with even more of my time spent dealing with paperwork, and phone calls, and less actual “care.” likely republican victories (no party stays in power forever) also make it probable that later on down the line, whatever “fixes” to the bad parts of the bill get passed, will just be even worse. still waiting for dems to “fix” the patriot act, for example.

    that’s how i see it, and why i oppose this round of HCR legislation. kill it and start over. try being actually liberal for a change. things can’t get much worse if they try, except for those lobbyists and staffers who are comfortable with dems being the way they are now, because it means cushy careers for them, fuck the rest of us.

  115. 115.

    Jay in Oregon

    @Zifnab:

    Look, I’m sorry, but Air America was bass-ackward. AM Radio is what people listen to when they forget to bring their iPods into the car. They were trying to take it to Limbaugh on his own turf and they were in the absolute wrong marketplace.

    And Air America going under doesn’t necessaily affect Ed Schultz, Mike Malloy, and Randi Rhodes, because they’re under different networks.

    Randi and Mike are part of something called “Nova M” — then again, I just Googled for it and it appears that Nova M went out of business back in February. So I dunno what my point is now, except that all of these progressive talkers can now go find their own deals.

  116. 116.

    gwangung

    @Bondo: well, as long as we both know what we’re arguing about. (Hrm. I KNOW I’ve made that exact same argument around here, which prompted the somewhat snippy response). Being on the same side logically should mean the heat should be a lot lower…

  117. 117.

    Mayken

    @Comrade Luke: But that only helps us if one of the 5 in all these 5-4s leaves. Absent Alito or Thomas or someone dying, Not Gonna Happen.
    And yes, this new SCOTUS decision, while totally expected, is totally fraked up! I’m really afraid for this country. I really am.

  118. 118.

    Laura W

    @R-Jud:

    I got eligible acquaintances from 26-42.

    That’ll do, Pooh.

    Your photos are gorgeous, and the coast is lovely too.
    It’s exactly what I dream of.

    +1.25

  122. 122.

    J. Michael Neal

    @chicago dyke: What do I get out of the Senate health care reform bill? For me, personally, it’s about the fact that I will be able to get health insurance. I have multiple pre-existing conditions, and getting an individual policy is impossible. (Or would be, if I lived anywhere other than Minnesota, which actually funds its high risk pool to the point that people can actually get in.) I’ve been unemployed for four years, and the fact that I can’t move to any other state is a real problem. The Senate bill would *immediately* mean that I have guaranteed access to a catastrophic insurance policy, and that I can participate in the exchanges and get something comprehensive in a few years.

    Beyond that, what’s in there that I like:

    1) Repeat, it allows people with pre-existing conditions to get coverage.

    1.5) I don’t like the individual mandate, per se, but it is essential if you are going to do point number one; without it, adverse selection problems kill community rating.

    2) Subsidies for people to buy health insurance up to 300% of the poverty line.

    3) Contrary to what people are saying, there are elements of the bill that contain costs. They are mostly implicit, but that’s what they will do. The fact that the fine for not purchasing insurance does not apply if the basic policy would cost the person more than 8% of their income means that insurance companies have to hold their prices down, or they start losing the benefits of the individual mandate; this bill is a boon for them *only* if they keep a lid on costs. If they raise premiums willy-nilly, there’s no “giveaway”.

    4) Requires plain English descriptions of policies, so people who aren’t lawyers have a chance to understand what’s involved.

    There are others, but that’s a start. I don’t know what additional costs you are talking about for your charges. What about the bill would lead to that?

  125. 125.

    DonkeyKong

    Let’s pass a bipartisan bill for “Freedomafacation” with 40% more sea salt, cookie dough and liberty.

    Come on people, it works for potatoe chips!

  127. 127.

    maus

    @Joe Bauers:

    …And that’s why we’re screwed. The single root cause underlying everything, is that this is a country of morons. Why can the Republicans’ obstruct everything? Because there’s no cost to it. Why not? Because the public doesn’t understand what they’re doing. Why not? Because they’re morons.

    I dont’ know if they so much as “don’t understand what they’re doing” so much as “know what they’re doing and see it as entirely positive and preferencial.” if this was a simple matter of not understanding what is going on around them, illumination would be possible.

    If critical thinking skills were taught in early childhood, both parties would be forced to have some amount of competition with each other rather than this lax collusion we’ve got going on.

  128. 128.

    Chad N Freude

    @gwangung:

    Being on the same side logically should mean the heat should be a lot lower…

    Obligatory “You must be new here.”

  131. 131.

    debbie

    @asiangrrlMN:

    @R-Jud: I know. He is my exception to the rule on age. And, yes, I would trade places with her for a day in a heartbeat. And, he is NOT yours! I called dibs way before anyone else, and it the fine tradition of the intertoobz, that means he’s MINE!

    I’m not one to get into a girl fight, but when you’ve won him, could you please send me a CD of his voice? So nice in the dark!

  133. 133.

    Martin Gifford

    @JGabriel:

    Let’s give Bachmann what she’s asking for. We can do a combined financial regulation & jobs bill, and call it “The Patriotic Restore American Prosperity Act”. Make her vote against that.

    Damn right!

  134. 134.

    freelancer

    Bachmann Responds:

    “I was treated, really, like a little girl,” Bachmann said. “I was patronized and basically told to go sit down and shut up in a corner. And I thought, ‘This is how you treat women?'”
    …
    She later added, “I think it will be the end of Arlen Specter in Pennsylvania.”

  135. 135.

    gwangung

    “I was treated, really, like a little girl,” Bachmann said. “I was patronized and basically told to go sit down and shut up in a corner. And I thought, ‘This is how you treat women?’”

    No, that’s how you treat idiots.

    The right wing notwithstanding, the two aren’t the same.

  136. 136.

    AngusTheGodOfMeat

    @Comrade Kevin:

    Nutella is Italian.

    The product sold in Oz is made by Ferrero Australia Manufacturing Pty Ltd.

    Nutella was invented in Italy. But then, so was pizza.

  139. 139.

    xian

    @Comrade Dread: I’ve always said we should cut taxes all the live-long-day but from the bottom up, by continually raising the exemption threshold. This is progressive, benefitting the largest number of taxpayers possible with any given cut. Cutting marginal rates is inherently regressive as it starts from the top.

    I realize we can’t afford those cuts, but as you say, let’s call their bluff.

  141. 141.

    The Truffle

    How do you respond to someone as mind-bogglingly stupid as Bachmann? C’mon, John. Specter can be forgiven for staring at her with his mouth to the floor. It’s an understandable reaction.

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