Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Radicalized white males who support Trump are pitching a tent in the abyss.

If ‘weird’ was the finish line, they ran through the tape and kept running.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

How stupid are these people?

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

If rights aren’t universal, they are privilege, not rights.

Disappointing to see gov. newsom with his finger to the wind.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

Bark louder, little dog.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / NFL Open Thread

Reader Interactions

306Comments

  1. 1.

    debit

    I’m trying to decide if I’m watching the Vikings or raking my lawn. Either choice is going to be tedious and probably painful.

  3. 3.

    Yutsano

    Ahh the eternal question: will the Seachickens make Eli pout today? I have a bizarre feeling they’re gonna blow this one too. Or the game will be pure snoozefest.

  5. 5.

    Steeplejack

    I’ve got Dolphins-Ravens here in NoVa as the only one o’clock game. I’m okay with that. Have found myself watching more of the game than I usually do. Must be the subtle effect of the time change.

  7. 7.

    billgerat

    Later this afternoon, we’ll see how bad the Seachickens lose to the Giants. It’ll be interesting to watch Whitehurst throw his first regular season pass since being drafted in 2006. He is heir apparent to Hasselbeck, on a team that has had problems with starting QB’s for decades. There are some pretty interesting match ups today – the Chiefs and Raiders for one.

  10. 10.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @MAJeff: Worse than this, it seems. I am in favor of Minnesota continuing to stick with the old man. I think it is important that they show faith and loyalty to such a longtime contributor.

  12. 12.

    Comrade Kevin

    @MAJeff:

    How bad does Favre actually have to be in order to get benched?

    Brett Favre is a WINNER. He can’t be benched. He’s won the same number of Super Bowls as Trent Dilfer.

  16. 16.

    morzer

    @Comrade Kevin:

    Brett Favre is a WINNER. He can’t be benched. He’s won the same number of Super Bowls as Trent Dilfer.

    Sure, but he’s still no Heath Shuler….

  29. 29.

    S. cerevisiae

    The hell with the drama, I am still in my Adrian Peterson Jersey and have my frosty Viking mug filled with Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale. These guys have been giving me indigestion for over thirty years and I have gone through worse with them. Skol Vikings.

  34. 34.

    burnspbesq

    @Yutsano:

    Eli is going to dismantle the Seachickens. And then Beckham and Donovan are going to send the Sounders home with their tails between their legs.

  44. 44.

    MattR

    I would really appreciate if the Patriots would take their heads out of their asses in the second half and beat the f’in Browns.

  51. 51.

    MAJeff

    @S. cerevisiae:

    These guys have been giving me indigestion for over thirty years and I have gone through worse with them. Skol Vikings.

    Yup. I always joke (well, almost joke) that that happiest day in Vikings history was when Buffalo lost their fourth Superbowl because we weren’t alone.

    This is just pathetic. I’m glad I have liquor.

  54. 54.

    MattR

    @morzer: I am a suffering Broncos fan who loves Peyton Hillis and uses that trade as one more example of McDaniels idiocy. Survivor pool is down to a bit under 500 from a starting number of a bit under 7500. Roughly a quarter of the teams have the Vikes but at thispoint I don’t expect to advance to next week.

    @ThresherK: I think the asnwer is as long as it was not an intentional pass by the defender (ie. a deflection of another pass). Assuming that NCAA women’s soccer rules are the same as FIFA

  55. 55.

    ThresherK

    I was grazing across the Big East womens’ soccer final earlier.

    Can someone quote me chapter and verse when a goalie is not allowed to handle passes from their own defender’s foot? Because I think WVa really got away with one there.

  60. 60.

    Yutsano

    @MattR:

    There is still a group of delusional folks who think McDaniels is capable of turning things around.

    Lemme guess, this is the same group of folks who think Tebow is the second coming of John Elway.

  61. 61.

    General Stuck

    @morzer:

    Well, the Browns have been ahead before this season and lost in the 4th quarter. So I’m not celebrating just yet. specially with Brady who can be a machine.

  62. 62.

    artem1s

    @General Stuck:

    looks like Cleveland has something to look forward to this season. pound thinks its seeing the second coming of Sipe. hope mccoy can finish out the season half healthy. he might have a chance of busting the sophomore jinx. love that robiskie is finally getting in on the action.

  70. 70.

    asiangrrlMN

    @4jkb4ia: Ahem.

    Perhaps Brett Favre will be allowed forced to retire this year.

    Fixed that for you. I KNEW he was going to throw an interception at the end zone. I just KNEW it. Fuck me.

    @debit: Your fault! Get out!

    @MAJeff: Now now. Let’s not go batshitcrazy. Mike Tice!

    ETA: This team just really sucks.

  72. 72.

    morzer

    Well, the Dolphins have been lucky, but ten points down to the Ravens going into the 4th quarter… not sure this is ending well.

  74. 74.

    Jewish Steel

    How could the metropolis of Toronto not be seduced by the awesome spectacle of Bears vs Bills?

    Although, they’re keeping it interesting by being Edwardian dandies about it. “Oh, no dear Sir! I couldn’t possibly win this game instead of you. Quel gauche!”

  75. 75.

    4jkb4ia

    Football. It is a simple game. You run with the ball, you throw the ball, you catch the ball. In none of these circumstances should the ball go to the other team.

  79. 79.

    Yutsano

    Today is just gonna be a bizarre football day isn’t it?

    @asiangrrlMN: Interceptions are Favre’s comfort zone. This has been known since the days of him being a cheesehead.

  80. 80.

    suzanne

    O/T. But I’m cute and charming, so get over it.

    I need a good recipe for mojitos. (No, I’m not drinking them.) Having a bunch of friends over next weekend and I want to torture myself by making them something yummy I can’t drink.

  81. 81.

    stuckinred

    @Yutsano: You want insane you should have watched my Illini fall to the scummy Wolverines in 3 ot’s 67-65. This score was higher than all three Ill_UM basketball games last year!

  82. 82.

    Yutsano

    @suzanne: Don’t get fancy. Just make them the way Nature intended. Teh Wiki gives some rather decent instruction on that score, bonus points if you can score some spearmint.

    @stuckinred: I no haz TV, but I was tracking that game online. In fact, when I first saw that score I thought it WAS a basketball game!

  85. 85.

    morzer

    And Chad Henne decides to go Favre on me now… this is turning into a depressing afternoon.

    But, the Jets and the Patsies are losing.. so it’s not all bad.

  87. 87.

    Admiral_Komack

    @MattR:

    Thank you, sir.

    Do not fear; there will come a day when I will again use the term
    “bronco” as an curse word, as I did during the Shannahan era.

  88. 88.

    Omnes Omnibus

    If people could just arrange it so that the Vikes and Bears lose, I would really appreciate it.

  90. 90.

    morzer

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Mr Childress is on line one. He says that this week’s complimentary loss will be delivered to your door gift-wrapped by Interceptions Are Us.

  98. 98.

    S. cerevisiae

    We are worse than the fucking Lions. Why didn’t we run that play last time? Well if they end up losing at home I hope Zigi pulls the trigger on Chilly.

  101. 101.

    James K. Polk, Esq.

    Patsies lose to the Browns?

    Seems like Wes Welker is missing Randy Moss drawing the safeties downfield…

  123. 123.

    Yutsano

    Wow. Whitehurst is off to a promising start. Negative 3 yards on the first possession. Good thing we pay our punters well.

    (edited to remove hyphen error. FYWP.)

  124. 124.

    Corner Stone

    @arguingwithsignposts: I disagree. They only showed us the angle from his backside. It looked to me like he bounced the ball on the ground and then slid his right hand under on the up bounce.

    Looks like Yutsie has killed this thread. Murderer!!

    Let me try this –
    – nope

  134. 134.

    4jkb4ia

    Without referring to anybody on any other blogs, Eric Mangini has had a very, very good day today.

  141. 141.

    stuckinred

    @asiangrrlMN: Nobody loves dogs more than I do but I recognize that the problem is way deeper than one person. I think his visibility and willingness to aid in the effort to curb dog fighting (in his own self-interest) is positive in the long run.

  150. 150.

    burnspbesq

    Anyone seen BGinCHI? Or is he too drunk to post, from celebrating Liverpool’s win over Chelski?

  152. 152.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @stuckinred:
    then don’t respond when I mention “Michael Vick, convicted animal torturer.”

    As long as we’re talking Vick, I would almost be willing to bet he’ll get in more trouble before his career is over. He was trouble at VT, trouble at ATL, and I can’t imagine a couple of years inside has rehabbed him enough to remove all the temptations that big money will bring.

    I hope I’m wrong.

  153. 153.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @burnspbesq:
    For some reason, I was assuming BGinCHI was a she, but I have no basis for that assumption.

    ETA: I did raise a legitimate objection re: international tax law in earlier thread and would be interested in your response.

  154. 154.

    burnspbesq

    Wow. The Lions’ ineptitude seemingly knows no bounds.

    Can someone who watched the game please explain “Ndamakong Suh kick no good?”

  155. 155.

    stuckinred

    @morzer: I’m not pretending anything. You can bitch all you want, it looks to me like he’s playing in the game. Do you think these pronouncements are going to change anything or does it just make you feel good to yap about it?

  159. 159.

    stuckinred

    @arguingwithsignposts: He’s stupid, there is no question about it. He’s also someone that is respected in certain communities. If you know anything about how public opinion fell out on him in Atlanta when this shit went down you’d know that. I still think he can make a difference in discouraging dog fighting because of that. I am not defending what he did in the least.

  160. 160.

    morzer

    @stuckinred:

    You want to defend an animal torturer, and that tells me all I need to know about your degenerate character. You should be ashamed of yourself.

  163. 163.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @stuckinred:

    I still think he can make a difference in discouraging dog fighting because of that.

    If that happens, then that will be one good outcome. I haven’t seen any of his anti-dog torturing messages, so it’s hard for me to judge.

  164. 164.

    MattR

    @burnspbesq: Hanson got injured on a roughing the kicker on a FG earlier in the drive so Suh tried the XP. Not a bad kick but pushed it right and hit the upright.

  165. 165.

    morzer

    @stuckinred:

    There’s only one way to treat those who torture animals and their fanboys, and that’s a public flogging, followed by a bullet in the back of the head. Now why don’t you fuck off back to whatever shitheap you crawled out of?

  169. 169.

    stuckinred

    Whenever it was, there was a moment over the past two years that Goodwin, the anti-dog fighting expert at the Humane Society of the United States, realized that of all the unexpected things, a silver lining had formed in the ugly clouds of the Michael Vick(notes) scandal.

    “People campaigned against dogfighting ever since the first dogfight ever happened,” Goodwin said. “But never had there been a spotlight put on this issue like when Michael Vick was involved in it.

    “What we’ve all learned is certain high-profile events change the trajectory of issues and this was that moment for dogfighting.”

    Vick returns to the NFL on Sunday as a backup quarterback for the Philadelphia Eagles. He’s nearly two and a half years removed from his arrest and subsequent imprisonment for funding and operating Bad Newz Kennels, a major dogfighting operation in rural Virginia.

    Goodwin will be watching his return. He once led animal cruelty protests of Vick outside court proceedings. Now they are on the same team, the Humane Society enlisting Vick as a spokesman.

    Goodwin isn’t going to call Vick a friend; he isn’t going to forget the violence that occurred under his watch. Yet the two have become strange partners – each using the other for their own selfish purposes. Vick needs the public relations help. The Humane Society needs the star power and credibility Vick has brought to speaking engagements to children in Chicago, Atlanta and Philadelphia.

    “People always ask if he’s sincere,” Goodwin said. “He certainly comes across as sincere but I believe in the long run his actions will either prove or disprove his sincerity on this.

  172. 172.

    billgerat

    Seahawks today: If it weren’t for bad luck, they’d have no luck at all. Truly miserable.

  177. 177.

    4jkb4ia

    Frantic jumping up and down at realization that NYG-SEA can put the Rams back in a tie for first.

  178. 178.

    stuckinred

    @morzer: Can you read this, moron?

    “People campaigned against dogfighting ever since the first dogfight ever happened,” Goodwin said. “But never had there been a spotlight put on this issue like when Michael Vick was involved in it.

    “What we’ve all learned is certain high-profile events change the trajectory of issues and this was that moment for dogfighting.”

  180. 180.

    MattR

    @stuckinred: Excellent. Let’s give Vick a medal for fighting dogs since it brought attention to the horrific practice.

    (EDIT: Is there a specific athlete you would like to murder a gay person so that we can bring proper attention to that societal problem?)

  181. 181.

    4jkb4ia

    I think that if Vick knows that Kolb is ready and waiting to substitute for him if he screws up, this will be better for him than the only consequences being a media circus. Will now leave argument also.

  182. 182.

    asiangrrlMN

    @S. cerevisiae: Then again, they are pitiful. So, one win isn’t really gonna help them much, amirite? Gah.

    @Corner Stone: Heh. They are playing the Packers. Who are first in our division. Since the Vikes won today, I must root for the ‘Boys. It will hurt me deeply, though. A soul wound, if you will.

  183. 183.

    Corner Stone

    @asiangrrlMN:

    And, I hate the fact that I have to root for the ‘Boys tonight.

    O M G. The horror! Who’s making you do such a vile thing? Some twisted MN v WI innate struggle? Fantasy Football?
    The only thing worse than rooting for Dallas would be trying to defend some public figure who really mistreated animals.

  185. 185.

    Noodlearmed UDFA previously 2liberal

    the Patriots lost. The Cardinals lost despite scoring two special team TDs and benching their noodle armed rookie UDFA. At least it looks like both my fantasy teams will win (one of my opponents is starting ROmo and Kaeding who are both out, and two bye players)

    And of course we can all still hope the Stealers lose tonight. If the Steelers lose, I will buy a pet calendar.

  186. 186.

    Yutsano

    @asiangrrlMN: There is no situation fathomable that could make me cheer for Dallas. Ever. Not until the pustule that is Jerry Jones is popped and drained away. And probably not even then.

    And always nice to know the Seahacks never disappoint. Gah. Why the hell did we spend all that fucking money again?

  189. 189.

    Yutsano

    @asiangrrlMN:

    But, I am torn because if the Vikes make it to the post-season, there will be a push for a publicly-funded stadium.

    This is as much a reason to hope they lose out as any. If the owners want a stadium that fucking badly, they can shell out for it. Otherwise suck it up and play in the dome like the FSM intended.

  192. 192.

    burnspbesq

    @Yutsano:

    Why the hell did we spend all that fucking money again?

    Which money? For the stadium?

    So the Sounders would have the best home-field advantage in MLS. SATSQ.

  193. 193.

    Yutsano

    @asiangrrlMN: Trust me, you can stand up to your sports teams. It can be done. We finally told the owners of the Supersonics to frag off and we haven’t looked back. I have great faith in the people of the Twin Cities.

    @burnspbesq:

    So the Sounders would have the best home-field advantage in MLS

    Funny part? If it was for that, I bet we’d have paid. Not necessarily imploded the Kingdome, but we would have shelled out for that.

  195. 195.

    Andy K

    @asiangrrlMN:

    They are playing the Packers. Who are first in our division.

    Well, at least something today is the way it should be.

    Talk dirty to me some more, wouldjya? Mix in an “Aaron Rodgers is the best quarterback in the division”. Yeah, that’s it….

  196. 196.

    J. Michael Neal

    Austin Collie is getting carted off on a stretcher. He got hit in the head over the middle and was clearly unconscious before he hit the ground. The refs threw a flag.

    The response from the booth is that it shouldn’t have been a penalty, because he took two steps and “had turned into a runner and could protect himself. You’re allowed to make helmet to helmet hits on a runner.”

    I just can’t describe how insane that is. You can hit a guy in the head because he’s running?

    In fairness, the guys in the booth also said that they are strongly in favor of the policy and said that you can legislate safety into the game, and you have to, even if it makes playing defense difficult. So, my objection isn’t to them so much as it is to the basic policy. It’s crazy.

  197. 197.

    asiangrrlMN

    @JPL: I know. I say, let them. Especially as HCMC is turning away people from their ER because they don’t have the money to treat them.

    @Andy K: Oooooh, bay-bee. And, you know, that would actually be the truth. Sigh.

  199. 199.

    Zach

    @J. Michael Neal: Peyton Manning is more responsible for that hit than anyone. The first tackler hit cleanly and spun Collie into the second. The crowd there’s gonna blow up in a second if they don’t score before halftime.

    The rule isn’t that you can commit unnecessary roughness willy nilly when someone’s running; just that incidental helmet-to-helmet contact is OK. If someone’s prone as a receiver, it’s easier to guess where their helment’s gonna be and not hit it; if someone’s running, that’s not the case. If you launch helmet-to-helmet into any ball carrier it’s a penalty, but this should’ve been no flag and a fumble.

  200. 200.

    Andy K

    I haven’t seen it (my local CBS affiliate has a weak signal), but I’m listening to Howard David and Tony Bosselli on the radio…They aren’t describing it in those terms (“had turned into a runner and could protect himself. You’re allowed to make helmet to helmet hits on a runner”) exactly, but they’re saying that the defensive player didn’t launch himself or do anything else recklessly. Sometimes there’s going to be incidental head-to-head contact.

  202. 202.

    Noodlearmed UDFA previously 2liberal

    @JPL:
    To all: if the steelers lose in NFL week nine, be it Sunday or Monday or any other day, I will buy a pet calendar.

  203. 203.

    Noodlearmed UDFA previously 2liberal

    @JPL:
    To all: if the steelers lose in NFL week nine, be it Sunday or Monday or any other day, I will buy a ‘balloon juice’ pet calendar.

  204. 204.

    Zach

    @stuckinred:

    Notice that Manning went right back over the middle on the next play knowing the d-backs would be gun shy about laying another hit on.

    I dislike Manning more than anyone, but he did the right thing going back to the game with a blank slate. The Eagles didn’t, and they got burned for it. Totally dead on the touchdown play, too.

  210. 210.

    J. Michael Neal

    @Zach:

    Peyton Manning is more responsible for that hit than anyone.

    No, the guy who hit him in the head is the most responsible for hitting him in the head.

    The rule isn’t that you can commit unnecessary roughness willy nilly when someone’s running; just that incidental helmet-to-helmet contact is OK

    I agree that that’s what the rule is. Maybe it should have been a fumble and no flag by the rules. My point is that that’s an insane set of rules. The players are too big and too fast. They are destroying each others’ brains on a regular basis. It has to end.

    I’ve stated before that I don’t think high level football can change. There is no way to make it sufficiently safe and have it still be football. What everyone who watches it (which includes myself, but to a degree that shrinks every year) is going to have to admit is that it is a combat sport, no different than boxing or MMA. You are deriving your enjoyment from people giving each other brain damage.

    I’m not comfortable with that. It’s one of the reasons that I’ve switched my Gophers’ hockey season tickets from the mens’ team to the women: no checking.

  216. 216.

    J. Michael Neal

    @stuckinred: Actually, I’m of the opinion that football would probably be safer if they stripped out all of the pads and helmets and play it like rugby. That would force players to slow down and be more careful when they run into each other. It would probably increase some injuries, but would cut down on concussions and probably serious knee injuries.

    It would also force linemen to stop smashing their heads against each other on every play.

  218. 218.

    Zach

    @J. Michael Neal: The second guy hit him helmet to helmet. And that’s not even accurate. He didn’t lead with his helmet and made contact with his shoulder first, and I never saw a replay that showed an extraordinary amount of helmet-to-helmet contact at all. Not a doctor, but I’d guess that getting hit by one guy sprinting in one direction and then by another guy sprinting in the other direction could give you a concussion with minimal helmet-to-helmet contact.

    And this stuff from the league about him apparently not having both feet down is ridiculous. You don’t need to make excuses about a bad call and make things up. I’m curious how it went down on the field… didn’t seem like they blew the whistle until well after the hit (although the flag was thrown quite early). Did they change it to an incomplete pass after the fact?

    I’m for all of the rules changes re: concussions, actually. I just don’t like the league backing the officials no matter how wrong they are.

  219. 219.

    burnspbesq

    @J. Michael Neal:

    It would also force linemen to stop smashing their heads against each other on every play.

    You must not watch much top-class rugby. Somebody gets their bell rung on every scrum.

  220. 220.

    J. Michael Neal

    @stuckinred:

    Boomer ain’t buying it, neither is Sharp, Cower or Marino but they don’t know as much as people here.

    They know plenty. I agree that by the rules, there shouldn’t have been a penalty.

    I don’t disagree with them as a matter of knowledge. I disagree with them as matters of ethics and aesthetics. They are fine with deriving entertainment from the infliction of brain damage. I’m not.

  221. 221.

    Andy K

    @J. Michael Neal:

    I’m not comfortable with that. It’s one of the reasons that I’ve switched my Gophers’ hockey season tickets from the mens’ team to the women: no checking.

    Then I must ask: Why, exactly, are you watching the NFL, if you don’t even like to watch the checking in men’s collegiate hockey?

    And will you cancel the tickets to the women’s games if a goalie gets knocked out when she gets a puck to the weakest spot of the helmet and gets knocked out cold? I’ve seen it happen before.

  222. 222.

    stuckinred

    @J. Michael Neal: There have been calls to ban football since the game was invented.

    Strange as it may seem, high school football, college football, and even the Super Bowl might not exist today if President Theodore Roosevelt had not taken a hand in preserving the game. As originally played on college campuses, the game was extremely rough, including slugging, gang tackling and unsportsmanlike behavior. Quite a number of players died (18 in just the year 1905 alone, with 20 times fewer players than there are today). Interest in becoming a football player was declining!

    But Roosevelt saw merit in the game. It built bodies and could build character, a sense of team and never giving up. Ten of the Rough Riders, the soldiers who fought with him in Cuba, gave their occupations as football players when they enlisted in 1898.

    So in 1905, President Roosevelt summoned representatives of the Big Three (Harvard, Yale and Princeton, the universities who first played the game and who also set the rules of play) to the White House. In his best table-thumping style, Theodore Roosevelt convinced them that the rules needed to be changed to eliminate the foul play and brutality.

    As a result, the American Football Rules Committee was formed and, in 1906, plays designed to open up the game and make it less dangerousd to play were introduced. Some of the changes made included:

    * the introduction of the forward pass,
    * the distance to be gained for a first down increased from five to ten yards,
    * all mass formations and gang tackling were banned.

    Football became less dangerous to play, injuries and deaths decreased, and it became more fun to watch.

    I don’t disagree but I don’t think much will happen.

  228. 228.

    Steeplejack

    @burnspbesq:

    That is a fugly floor. I wonder if the splash pattern makes it hard for the officials to clearly see the lines for three-point shots, etc.

  234. 234.

    J. Michael Neal

    @stuckinred: I never said that he was going for his head. I said that he hit him in the head. Head injuries don’t care whether or not the blow was intentional or not.

    In fact, that’s my point. At the speed and size of the players, it doesn’t matter whether you manage to eliminate people deliberately targeting other players in the head. Just the incidental contact will produce a lot of head injuries.

  235. 235.

    Andy K

    Sounds like the notoriously bad attitudes of Philly fans are justified today.

    Remember, Philly, Santa Claus has got nothing to do with it.

  236. 236.

    MattR

    @burnspbesq: In terms of the violence in its history. I assume you know that one reason Native Americans played lacrosse was resolve tribal disputes and the “games” could easily result in the death of some of the thousands of players involved.

    @stuckinred: Excellent news.

  237. 237.

    J. Michael Neal

    @Andy K:

    Then I must ask: Why, exactly, are you watching the NFL, if you don’t even like to watch the checking in men’s collegiate hockey?

    It’s a slow transition. I really like the sport of football.

    And will you cancel the tickets to the women’s games if a goalie gets knocked out when she gets a puck to the weakest spot of the helmet and gets knocked out cold? I’ve seen it happen before.

    I’ve seen it happen, too. Alyssa Grogan is currently out with a concussion suffered in practice. However, it’s extremely unusual. If it starts becoming a regular occurrence, then, yes, I’ll stop watching. I’m not arguing that all injuries should be eliminated. I’m arguing that the level and frequency of serious injuries in NFL football is so high that I’m uncomfortable watching it. The concussion research being done on former NFL players is frightening.

  239. 239.

    Steeplejack

    Yutsano back yet? I wanted to commiserate on the Seachickens. I couldn’t watch any more and switched over to the Colts-Eagles game. Dunno why I wasn’t watching that all along. Mostly doinking on the computer and not paying much attention to the TV.

    ETA: @Yutsano! Ah, you are back.

  243. 243.

    burnspbesq

    @MattR:

    I assume you know that one reason Native Americans played lacrosse was resolve tribal disputes and the “games” could easily result in the death of some of the thousands of players involved.

    That was centuries ago. Modern-day lax, I would venture to guess, has the lowest rate of head injuries of any sport where contact is a designed-in part of the game. State-of-the-art sticks are so light I doubt you could seriously hurt anybody on a slash. Now, if somebody like Rabil, who shoots it 115 mph, were to hit a goalie flush in the mask, that might have unhappy consequences. But short of that …

  244. 244.

    burnspbesq

    @Yutsano:

    The idea is logical. It’s intended as a tribute to Oregon’s 1939 NCAA championship team, which was known as the Tall Firs.

    The execution leaves a bit to be desired.

  245. 245.

    J. Michael Neal

    @stuckinred: I’m also disgusted at the way the NFL has resisted doing much about concussions until the middle of this season. Aside from preventing them, they allow concussed players to come back much too quickly. Even after you stop showing symptoms, the brain isn’t fully healed and can be injured again very easily. A concussion should be a minimum of out two weeks. I was horrified at the idea of DeSean Jackson coming back in a week.

  246. 246.

    MattR

    @burnspbesq: Completely agree. Personally, I think there is something wrong in the head with lacrosse goalies. But that’s just because it would take more than a cup, a chest protector, a helmet and a stick with a big net to get me to stand in front of an average Division I player’s shot, let alone someone like Paul Rabil.

    @J. Michael Neal: You will be equally horrified to know that Jackson will be wearing a different helmet that “helps prevent concussions” when he comes back. But that helmet is not made by official NFL sponsor Riddell so it is not used by the vast majority of players. Must prevent concussions unless it gets in the way of the almoghty dollar.

  247. 247.

    burnspbesq

    Maybe we should do away with football, and have high school, college and professional bushkazi instead.

  248. 248.

    Yutsano

    @Steeplejack: I had to look away at halftime. I seriously wondered why we even bothered to open up the stadium for that atrocity. At least the Seachickens got it in the end zone once.

    @burnspbesq: Knocking around goat heads on horseback? AWESOME!!

  249. 249.

    burnspbesq

    @MattR:

    I played goal in soccer. No fucking way was I playing goal in lax. Gimme that midfield stick, thank you very much.

  250. 250.

    Andy K

    @J. Michael Neal:

    The concussion research being done on former NFL players is frightening.

    Agreed, but until there’s a control group set up in which there are coaches and players who agree that a player will never play again until completely recovered from their most recent concussion, we’ll never know exactly causes of permanent brain damage to football players.

    I’ll tell ya what, tough: Taking off the armor isn’t the answer. What stuckinred’s historically-minded comment above didn’t say is that after that rash of deaths in the early 20th Century, players started wearing helmets more regularly. Those deaths weren’t caused by head-to-head contact. but foot-on-head contact in the scrum.

    Life is dangerous. Kids fall out of trees and off of bikes, instances of the latter since there have been bikes, of the former since there have been humans. Some of those who fall out or off will be wearing helmets and other padding, but they still end up snapping their spinal columns and dying. Spectators at baseball games sustain concussions when they’re struck by foul balls, As Joe Jackson sang, everything gives you cancer. We’re death machines, us humans, with skin and muscles and hearts that pump our blood. Enjoy the time you’re given.

  252. 252.

    stuckinred

    @Andy K: Yea, mine was a quote not a comment.

    I had two friends break jaws and suffer major concussions when they left their feet on a popup that dropped between short and left field. I broke my back in a van wreck in 1975. Rods on my spine, a year in a full body cast, another of rehab. I was insanely lucky and unlucky all at once. Within three years I was back playing hoop every day and 35 years later I swim a mile a day to try to stay in shape. Ya pays yer money ya takes yer chances.

  253. 253.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @Andy K:

    Agreed, but until there’s a control group set up in which there are coaches and players who agree that a player will never play again until completely recovered from their most recent concussion, we’ll never know exactly causes of permanent brain damage to football players.

    We may not have absolute certaintly, but that’s a pretty ridiculous statement.

    ETA: I fell in Y football after snapping the ball and getting knocked to the ground, broke my arm, even though coach said it was just a sprain, so I am not unaware of dangers of the game.

  254. 254.

    stuckinred

    Now you’re lookin’ at a man that’s gettin’ kind a mad
    I had lot’s of luck but it’s all been bad
    No matter how I struggle and strive
    I’ll never get out of this world a live.

    My fishin’ pole’s broke the creek is full of sand
    My woman run away with another man
    No matter how I struggle and strive
    I’ll never get out of this world alive.

    A distant uncle passed away and left me quite a batch
    And I was livin’g high until that fatal day
    A lawyer proved I wasn’t born
    I was only hatched.

    Ev’rything’s agin’ me and it’s got me down
    If I jumped in the river I would prob’ly drown
    No matter how I struggle and strive
    I’ll never get out of this world alive.

    These shabby shoes I’m wearin’ all the time
    Are full of holes and nails
    And brother if I stepped on a worn out dime
    I bet a nickel I could tell you if it was heads or tails.

    I’m not gonna worry wrinkles in my brow
    ‘Cause nothin’s ever gonna be alright nohow
    No matter how I struggle and strive
    I’ll never get out of this world alive.

    I could buy a Sunday suit and it would leave me broke
    If it had two pair of pants I would burn the coat
    No matter how I struggle and strive
    I’ll never get out of this world alive.

    If it was rainin’ gold I wouldn’t stand a chance
    I wouldn’t have a pocket in my patched up pants
    No matter how I struggle and strive
    I’ll never get out of this world alive.

  255. 255.

    Andy K

    @stuckinred:

    Well, Teh Suxxor on the injuries, but good on ya for getting back on the bike, so to speak.

    What really worries me today (he said ironically) is that we’re raising a generation of kids who are scared of everything. We don’t allow them to live and learn on their own. If we don’t keep our latchkey kids plopped down in front Nickelodeon and the latest gaming platforms, we’re driving them around to all of these activities that WE choose for them; WE make their play-dates; WE tell them they must become doctors or lawyers or engineers when they might want to be artists or chefs or mechanics- if they chase their own dreams they’ll surely fail and end up living under the off-ramp.

    Okay, I need to step out and get some Cheetohs and smokes before the Packers come on, but I hope you’re getting my drift here. LIVE, people, LIVE!

  260. 260.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @Andy K:
    If you’re going to pie me, at least let me say I agree with you wrt parents overprotecting their kids. But some of us don’t do that. I have kids in soccer (and soccer is far from my fav. sport), and would have them in hockey if they had a league where they live. True, they don’t walk home from school every day – but I didn’t either – I rode the bus. They do most things they want to do within reason and they are actually pushed toward math and science, despite my personal word-based emphasis. I want them to experience each and every art and science they can in school.

    Yes, society does a lot of pushing. But some are pushing back where they can.

  261. 261.

    Andy K

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Okay, I’m with you on that, because I don’t do it, either. It is the general We, but a We that I’ve picked up on over the last two decades of being a parent. We- you and I- seem to be in the minority. But hell, we’re here in the prog-o-sphere all of the time, and though our egos might tell us different, we’re in a tiny minority here.

  262. 262.

    stuckinred

    @Andy K: I spent over 20 years running municipal sports programs and my emphasis was kids sports. I had extensive coaches training programs, parental behavior guidelines and program structures that emphasized fundamentals and participation. It was a great experience but eventually it wore me down and I changed fields.

  263. 263.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @Andy K:
    Point taken. I try to steer clear of a lot of the SUV-riding parents at soccer/dance/etc. for that very reason. I saw the “W” sticker in the parking lot.

    Not to mention, they get worse as the kids grow older, a lot of the time.

  264. 264.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @stuckinred:
    The saddest exp. I had as a reporter was a parent in the stands getting thrown out of his son’s h.s. baseball game, and going out and parking his car outside the diamond, beyond the fence, and still yelling at the umps. Felt really bad for the kid, who was a pretty good kid. And that was in the early 90s, before all the recent parental weirdness.

  265. 265.

    Andy K

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    I delivered a lot of pizza to the homes of parents of my kid’s schoolmates. I talked to a lot of them without them knowing the common denominators we shared. Some of them were W supporters, but a lot of them were DLCers…Or even real liberal progressives. I just don’t see the problem as being politically partisan. Some fears transcend that sort of identification.

  266. 266.

    stuckinred

    @arguingwithsignposts: Oh yea, it’s been around from the beginning. I started in Illinois in 78 and we had our share of problems. One thing I learned to do over the years was to coach in my own programs and model the correct approach. It’s funny, we offered these really effective training programs and the people who needed them the most were the least likely to participate. We got to the point where parents had to sign an agreement about their behavior and we’d toss them and the kid if we had to. If you just had rules but no enforcement they figured it out quickly.

  267. 267.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @Andy K:
    I can understand *something* of that – given the hypermediated environment people live in, but it still gets out of hand. very difficult to control everything your kid does, and then it gets to the point where they become just automatons.

    I couldn’t imagine what it would be like growing up in that environment.

    eh, people are weird.

  268. 268.

    Andy K

    @stuckinred:

    Participation is fine by me, if the kid is interested, but I’ve been to enough games where the kids are only there for the snacks.

    I don’t know about you, but when I was a kid and the family wasn’t camping in the summer, I went to the park. The Grand Rapids Parks Department had a great recreation program. Thing about it, though, is that the activities weren’t rigidly structured. You didn’t have to be one of the kids who rode from Mulick Park to Alger Park for the softball game if you didn’t or couldn’t participate that day. You’d still play the next time out. The male supervisor would kinda act as the manager, but the kids themselves usually knew who should hit where, and where they should play….

    But that’s not really the point. If I wanted to go to the park, I’d say, “Hey, mom, going to the park!” and she’sd say okay or, “Be back by one. You have to go to the dentist.” But maybe I didn’t want to go to the park, but to the library…So I told mom and went. She didn’t plan out my day for me. And I’m talking from the age of seven.

  269. 269.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @Andy K:

    But that’s not really the point. If I wanted to go to the park, I’d say, “Hey, mom, going to the park!” and she’sd say okay or, “Be back by one. You have to go to the dentist.” But maybe I didn’t want to go to the park, but to the library…So I told mom and went. She didn’t plan out my day for me. And I’m talking from the age of seven.

    to be fair, a lot of mom’s aren’t around to do that these days (I say that as a former latchkey kid myself). They are working.

    Our funnest times as kids were during summers when we were left home from approx. 8-4 to do whatever. Yes, that was weird, but that’s the way things were (after we were a little older).

  270. 270.

    Andy K

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    …and then it gets to the point where they become just automatons.

    Bingo!

    Well almost. I don’t think they’ll become robots, but many will end up anti-social and/or sociopaths. Playing with kids you want to play with is part of the socialization process. Finding one’s own interests is part of the learning process. If your kid wants to be a chef, don’t discourage her from that path and then encourage her to be an engineer, which she finds nothing but drudgery.

  271. 271.

    Andy K

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    After a while, I was a latchkey kid, too. But I did the same park thing before and after: Leave mid-morning, come home for lunch, leave again, come home for dinner, leave again for capture the flag, and get home around 8 or 8:30.

  274. 274.

    Andy K

    @stuckinred:

    Okay, but did the parents hover? Because the only time we saw parents was when they took our younger brothers and sisters to the wading pool, or picked us up because of some emergency.

  277. 277.

    S. cerevisiae

    Lacrosse used to be a lot rougher:

    The Ojibwe in the region resented British policies as harsh. On June 2, 1763, as part of the larger movement known as Pontiac’s Rebellion, a group of Ojibwe staged a game of baaga’adowe (lacrosse) outside the fort as a ruse to gain entrance. After gaining entrance to the fort, they killed most of the British inhabitants and held the fort for a year before the British retook it with the provision to offer more and better gifts to the native inhabitants of the area.

  285. 285.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Andy K: I have to watch. The ‘boys can pull out a miracle in the second half.
    @Corner Stone: I know. I am so ashamed.

    GO ‘BOYS!

    P.S. W. was just on my teevee. My exact reaction, “Why is that fuckface on my TV?” Guess I’m still a little bitter.

  286. 286.

    Andy K

    @S. cerevisiae:

    Hey, I didn’t say my recent ancestors.

    Now I’m going to have to find one of the Francis bros and have them translate for me….If they haven’t all moved back to the res. Kinda lost track of them when I quit drinking.

  288. 288.

    S. cerevisiae

    It just means “hello, friend”, although since they standardized the spelling a couple decades ago I can never remember when to use which vowel combination.

  294. 294.

    Corner Stone

    @Andy K: That was a very stupid hit by Collins. Looked for a second like Roy was out cold before he hit the turf and then came to a couple seconds later.

  296. 296.

    Andy K

    @Corner Stone:

    At the live blog at the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, the sportswriters think he was going for the shoulder, but the other DB changed the trajectory of the WR. Still a fine, but not a suspension. That’s what they say.

  297. 297.

    Corner Stone

    @Andy K: Most of those type plays are so bang bang it’s tough to be definitive.
    But IMO, he never should’ve been coming in at him that high. He clinked him damn good right at the bottom of the helmet in back. They’ve got Collins listed at 207 but I’d say closer to 220.
    Anyway, I think he set himself up for the shah hooge fine coming his way this week. Just glad the WR walked out of it.

  299. 299.

    Andy K

    But IMO, he never should’ve been coming in at him that high.

    He goes for the shoulder to break up a possible reception. You keep your eyes on the spot you’re going to hit. What next- fair catches on plays from scrimmage?

    Collins is no headhunter. This is just another example of incidental contact.

  301. 301.

    Corner Stone

    @Andy K:The league is focusing on these and Collins is going to be writing a substantial sum to the NFL Widows and Orphans slush fund this week.

  302. 302.

    Andy K

    Okay, I’ve been following the Packers since ’72, and there were some pretty bad teams between ’72 and ’91 or so…And I have never seen a team play as poorly as the Cowboys are playing tonight.

  306. 306.

    JRinWV

    How bout those meat packers!

    I could no more root for the kowboise than flap my arms and be elecgted presnit!

    Shame a bout Ben R. He’s worse than Mike V Dog killer, rapist basturd! I was kinda a Stealers fan, since we don’t have a team here in WV, but Ben sure makes it hard.

    My rescue dogs (3) are old and fr ail, except for the newest one, Happy, who is probably about 4, and very Happy to have 90 acres of woods to run in. What a shame if she had been adopted by an urban (for WV) apartment dweller.

    Go cheese packers.\!

Comments are closed.