This RS Roundtable with Gergen and Taibbi took a turn for the awesome:
In 2008, Obama managed to win over both the financial sector and the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. Now he seems to have pissed off both ends of that coalition.
Hart: There’s a fascinating point from the exit polls that supports part of what Matt is saying. When you ask voters who is most to blame for the current economic crisis, 35 percent say it’s Wall Street bankers, 29 percent say it’s George W. Bush and 23 percent say it’s Barack Obama. However, among those who say it’s Wall Street bankers, 56 percent voted for the Republicans in this election. So go figure.
That said, I worry that if the president and the Democrats were to follow Matt’s advice, they would be appealing to the smallest segment of the electorate. Right now Obama has the support of 85 percent of Democrats. If you want to get America back to work, you don’t want to put the people who have the ability to invest on the other side of their fence.
Taibbi: So if we put people in jail for committing fraud during the mortgage bubble, we’re endangering our ability to win over the CEOs? Obama should have made sure that there are consequences for people who committed crimes. Instead, he pursued a policy of nonaction, and that left him vulnerable with ordinary people who wanted an explanation for why the economy went off the cliff.
Gergen: I don’t think his problem is he hasn’t put enough people in jail. I agree that when people commit fraud, they ought to spend some time in the slammer. But there’s a tendency in today’s Democratic Party to turn away from someone like Bob Rubin because of his time at Citigroup. I served with him during the Clinton administration, when the country added 22 million new jobs, and Bob Rubin was right at the center of that. He was an invaluable adviser to the president, and he is now arguing that one of the reasons this economy is not coming back is that the business community is sitting on money because of the hostility they feel coming from Washington.
Taibbi: I’m sorry, but Bob Rubin is exactly what I’m talking about. Under Clinton, he pushed this enormous remaking of the rules for Wall Street specifically so the Citigroup merger could go through, then he went to work for Citigroup and made $120 million over the next 10 years. He helped push through the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, which deregulated the derivatives market and created the mortgage bubble. Then Obama brings him back into the government during the transition and surrounds himself with people who are close to Bob Rubin. That’s exactly the wrong message to be sending to ordinary voters: that we’re bringing back this same crew of Wall Street-friendly guys who screwed up and got us in this mess in the first place.
Gergen: That sentiment is exactly what the business community objects to.
Taibbi: Fuck the business community!
Gergen: Fuck the business community? That’s what you said? That’s the very attitude the business community feels is coming from many Democrats in Washington, including some in the White House. There’s a good reason why they feel many Democrats are hostile — because they are.
Taibbi: It’s hard to see how this administration is hostile to business when the guy it turns to for economic advice is the same guy who pushed through a merger and then went right off and made $120 million from a decision that helped wreck the entire economy.
Notice what is important to Taibbi and what is important to Gergen. For Taibbi, what matters is what has actually happened. For Gergen, the matter of supreme importance is the delicate fee-fees of our Galtian overlords like Lloyd Bankfein and Bob Rubin. David Gergen is a very serious person.
We’re so fucking screwed as a nation.
Villago Delenda Est
The “business community” and their toadies like Gergen had better start worrying about tumbrel rides, not hurt fee fees.
Napoleon
Taibbi is going to be on Countdown. I have to read that article tonight.
freelancer
“We surround them!”
Broken clocks, and all that.
Mike in NC
How long before Gergen gets hired to advise Boehner, or did it happen already?
John O
Awesome indeed! Thanks, John.
It’s gotta be on video somewhere, so don’t despair.
NobodySpecial
“You’re pretty hostile.”
“I got a right to be hostile, my people bein’ persecuted, man.”
ruemara
Capital Public Radio’s This American Life, show #415: “crybabies”. Listen to the segment, the 2nd one on the Wall Street Traders who believe that we didn’t save the pasty asses with the bailout, they were just smarter than us and took advantage of the situation, so they hate Barack Obama because he’s trying to kill Wall Street. God Damn, I want to be back in NYC at some Wall Street bar. Bricks and molotov cocktails are too good for these people.
Just Some Fuckhead
Gergen wants us to move further right. How do we realistically do that at this point without a pogrom?
pseudonymous in nc
HST’s widow needs to send Taibbi the old fucker’s shotgun, just for decorative purposes. If the “business community” has decided collectively to behave like pouty five-year-olds who didn’t get the right sprinkles on their Bailout Cake, then let’s see how they deal with that.
ETA: That’s a “read the whole thing” piece. You have two Village idiots, playing their Very Serious People roles, and instead of another Very Serious Person (or, more usually, some whackjob who gets treated Very Seriously) there’s Taibbi, saying “uh, haven’t you fucking noticed that the teabaggers are nutcases?”
freelancer
If he thinks that CEO’s think the Democrats are hostile to Wall Street, I’d be amazed to see what he calls the emotions of anyone who makes less than $50K a year towards Wall Street.
Fuck the business community indeed. Buncha whiners.
Napoleon
Ruemara, I was stacking wood when that was playing and I almost slugged my radio with a log. What a-holes.
Tulip
I have to admit I’m really starting to love Matt Taibbi… after I read his article regarding the Tea Partiers I decided to support Rolling Stones and got a year long subscription.
When did banksters become such WATB’s?
General Stuck
I side with Taibi in principle and action, but also can see why Obama didn’t immediately go balls to the wall prosecuting the banksters and CEO’s. He inherited an economy on the brink of collapse, and saving that was and should have been the first order of business. Now that the patient is strong enough for a trial and jail, is the time to start rounding up the biggest of the crooks for some legal fun. Seems that is what is happening, and investigations have been commencing low key, from recent announcements. And fraud cases are notoriously hard to prove to the point of getting convistions, especially from top lawyered up rich folk. But Gergen gives us the unvarnished version of insider mentality, that especially with the economic disaster, helped to cause that disaster.
Ruckus
Taibbi: Fuck the business community!
Times 5,000,000.
Steve
The business community does, in fact, feel like the Democrats are anti-business. But the idea that they’re just intentionally sitting on piles of money rather than spending it to create jobs is deluded. No corporation is standing around saying “let’s put our entire business plan on hold until Republicans get the White House back.”
Comrade Luke
That is so awesome. When I was reading it I saw Gergen mention Rubin and immediately thought “Oh man, bad move. This is gonna be great!” That last sentence is in my Flounder-from-Animal-House voice btw.
I don’t think there’s anyone he could have mentioned that would have gotten Taibbi into more of a lather, other than Brooks or Friedman. And btw, wouldn’t that be a great name for a country band?
stuckinred
Two weeks ago people here were all hysterical about Matt because he “didn’t know what the fuck he was talking about”.
BGinCHI
What’s worse is that Gergen turns the Fuck Them sentiment back to the WH.
No, David, it’s Taibbi and every other thinking person paying attention to the economy and its fundamentals who feels that way. It’s not the fucking WH!
The media personalities like Gergen are really terrible at analysis. The reason Taibbi stands out is in the sharpness of his arguments.
Gergen is like a security guard for the fatcat establishment.
Roger Moore
The underlying problem is that the banksters are powerful enough that they can wreck the economy if they want to. Now they’re threatening to use that power if anyone gets in the way of them trying to accumulate even more. Taking them on is going to be very painful but ultimately necessary, since 2007-8 showed that they’re capable of bringing down the economy accidentally as well as deliberately.
suzanne
I told my husband that I would fellate Matt Taibbi if he asked, ’cause it’s practically my civic duty at this point. He concurred.
Gergen’s whimpering about “the hostility… coming from Washington” is such unmitigated horseshit. I mean, what the hell else do these motherfuckers WANT? Seriously.
Comrade Luke
You know what just occurred to me?
“Hostile to the business community” is really just the domestic version of “Siding with the terrorists”.
Roger Moore
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Who said there wasn’t going to be a pogrom? The biggest question is whether it’s going to be against ragheads or wetbacks.
Comrade Luke
@stuckinred: Things here seem to have taken a slight left turn after the election.
I love it :)
Jeffro
@Comrade Luke: Totally, totally stealing & spreading that one.
Mark S.
Gergen also broke a monocle when Taibbi stated that the Tea Party is crazy. I don’t think he’s going to agree to do another roundtable with Taibbi again.
DonkeyKong
I’m I dude and I would so have Matt Taibbi’s baby after that exchange.
“Fuck the Business Community!” is today’s “Ils ne passeront pas/On ne passe pas” in this fucking trench warfare against the Bankster’s.
NobodySpecial
In all seriousness, though, remember, Gergen SERVED WITH Rubin. Therefore, you not only have the ‘Good buddy I worked with’ defense, you also have the ‘Oh Jesus, if they look too close they might put me in the clink with him’ defense.
I don’t necessarily need them to go to jail, however. I’d be satisfied if they became permanent wards of the state and were forced to live in unemployment in a housing project and kept there for the rest of their natural lives.
bkny
@ruemara:
i literally just started working down there (nothing to do with financial services) on maiden lane and have joked with friends about tripping up some banksters…
Hob
@BGinCHI: Well, to be fair, it is well nigh impossible to tell the difference between Matt Fucking Taibbi and the Democratic establishment.
At least, for goddamn idiots – or for those who are paid to pretend they are.
AnotherBruce
@Roger Moore:
Or liberals.
ruemara
@bkny:
I would support this if there’s a herd of raptors running behind them. Or one of those stone balls a la Raiders, I’m not picky.
John O
Emergency OT:
I put some ProMeris on Dweezil ’cause he has da mange, and the doc thinks it might be demodex mites.
He hates me, won’t come near me, I got the poison on me, washed it off…should I wash it off him or hang in there for a day or two?
Bnut
As my father is fond of saying, “Methinks you doth protest too much” (in direction of bankers and their apologists).
steviez314
Wall Street is up 30% since Obama took ofice.
Corporate profits are back to an all-time high.
Bonuses are flowing again.
Oh, the hostility!
Just Some Fuckhead
So, do I understand it correctly that The Business Community As Represented By Spokesmodel Gergen objects to the notion that they may somehow be implicated in our recent financial meltdown and therefore be targeted unfairly by Obama and Other Democrats In Washington As Represented By Muckraker Journalist Taibbi? Did I totally nail that one?
John O
@Just Some Fuckhead:
LOL!
Yes.
calipygian
Taibbi FTW:
curious
i posted this link earlier in an open thread. there’s a pretty slick looking short video that was just put out by something called bankrupting america, trying to explain why businesses have decided they’re not going to give us any more jobs until we’ve eaten all our vegetables or something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tw688Kbjy4
Francis
Everyone really needs to go read Felix Salmon’s blog post on the Three Monkeys (no link — I’m on my iPhone) Right Now. The Obama admin and Geithner especially have hung the American people out to dry on the whole fraudulent foreclosure / illegal trusts issue. It’s time to get the House to call the AG to testify and explain why more criminal investigations aren’t ongoing. And if anyone knows Jerry Brown , tell him to tell Calpers to start suing trustees, servicers and originators.
Violet
@Comrade Luke:
FTW.
David Gergen’s bipartisany fee-fee’s are hurt by Matt Taibbi’s use of facts.
Just Some Fuckhead
@calipygian: Right? And WTF is up with Gergen and the Bush fetish? Is there some point where it becomes farce, if it hasn’t already? Like when he sez in 12 years that Jenna Bush is our only hope? Someone needs to examine his tax returns. All the fucking pols in the world and it’s All Bush All The Time with that clown.
Hunter Gathers
Crooks and Liars had a clip with part of this on the other day and Gergen practically shit himself when Taibbi said the teabaggers were crazy. Needless to say, we won’t be seeing that confrontation again, Taibbi being shrill and all.
bkny
@ruemara:
i keep looking out my window hoping at some point to see one of those fuckers jump.
Tim
I too am in love with Matt Taibbi.
And I too recall many BJ regulars trashing him not that long ago.
Of course, if I want a serious chance to do my part for the nation and have sex with Taibbi, I will have to get in line behind Andrew Sullivan who seriously wants to do MT himself owing to MT’s bearish appearance, but of course will only do so as a threesome with his husband because, you know, they are maritally committed and what not.
Michael
@suzanne:
Dear Madam:
I find your ideas intriguing, and would like to subscribe to your publication.
efroh
Fantastic. Would have been perfect if Taibbi had actually said “fuck you!”, but I can imagine he’s thinking it and that’s good enough.
Corner Stone
I think this is one instance where President Obama could take some well learned lessons from Hugo Chavez.
SiubhanDuinne
@pseudonymous in nc #9:
I know it’s a generational thing, but whenever I see “HST” I immediately think “Harry S Truman.”. So when I read your reference to “HST’s widow,” I’m thinking, “Wait, what? Bess has been dead for decades.”
And then, of course, I figure out that you’re referring to Hunter S. Thompson’s widow.
As I said, it’s generational.
General Stuck
OT
Meet the new GOP Science Guy Chairman in the House.
Some day, all this will be yours, if there’s anything left.
curious
fox just ran some b-roll of george soros giving speeches with the chyron “george soros, far-left billionaire.” hilarious.
Mogden
I like Gergen generally, but how can he possibly say that the problem is not that we haven’t thrown anyone in jail? That is absolutely the problem.
jefft452
”Gergen: I don’t think his problem is he hasn’t put enough people in jail.”
I do,
When people think of the British navy, they think of “a tradition of victory”, “Bratainia rules the waves” etc etc
But prior to the 1750’s the Royal Navy routinely got their asses kicked by the French, Spanish, and Dutch
So they amended the Articles of War making officers “responsible for the consequences of their actions”
A year later John Byng turned tail an ran from the French, allowing Minorca to fall
Byng had to face a court martial, but he wasn’t worried
He was from one of the best families with friends in parliament, even his political enemies were the kind of people he went to school with
And of course the new law was meant for lieutenants and midshipman, obviously it didn’t apply to senior officers
And besides, there is a war on, we need our Admirals
But they put John Byng in front of a firing squad on the deck of his flagship – and ushered in 150 years of British naval dominance
Shoot one of the rich and powerful – easiest way to fix the economy
(only half in jest)
Anachronym
As satisfying as that was to read, this is where Taibbi missed an opportunity.
Let’s play that segment back the way it should have gone:
Christin
Gergan is a moran.
And Taibbi is a bloviating full of himself hack who can’t be bothered to back up some of his work with actual facts..
How you think someone saying “Fuck that” is genius is beyond me. Ignits say that. Palin thinks it 24/7. And it’s al the teaparty has. Fuck this. Fuck that. Oh honestly – who cares. God this shit is boring the hell out of me lately.
Michael
@General Stuck:
That 3 buck a gallon gas that you should be paying 1.80 for due to recession decreases in business activity? You are paying for the elevation of this clown, all by stuffing money into the coffers of TX wingnuts.
Your debt peonage to the banks is the other column propping up the GOP, and is funding the continued speechifying of Boner, Mittens and Bitch McConnell.
If it were up to me, conservatives would be in Club Gitmo.
Mogden
jefft452, I think you have exactly the right idea, except that one is not nearly enough.
Corner Stone
Gergen is a slightly younger James Baker III.
Suffern Ace
Gosh. I think after all this, they’re still afraid of us…that the state that they have been looting and weakening won’t protect them and might turn on them. I wonder how nervous they’d be if true liberals were actually on Obama’s economic team and the Democratas were actually the preferred party of the NRA?
tripletee
I’m not the world’s biggest Matt Taibbi fan, but him vs. Gergen is pure gold. The deluge of Beltway conventional wisdom and faux-centrism that Gergen and the other idiot were spewing out of their douchenozzles during that roundtable is kind of breathtaking. I’m surprised they didn’t have to break out the smelling salts when Taibbi stated the obvious truth (most of the teabaggers are borderline crazy and/or ignorant) .
Mark S.
Gergen:
I’d like to see him put some actual money on that.
And I love the part about overcoming the brand name problem. As if any of this spawn of George and Barbara would have done anything if their last names weren’t Bush.
wazmo
When I hear about the SEC pursuing ‘civil fraud’ charges against the various and sundried MOTU you have to wonder what will actually get you thrown in jail in the 21st century.
Seems only the most egregious non-banking violators spend time at Club Fed (Kozlowski, Ebbers, Rigas) but those within the banking sphere seem to skate by with disgorgement and disbarment (Mozillo)
jefft452
Mogden @56
You’d be surprised how much a single example will encourage the others
Fewer people were executed in the “Reign of Terror” under Robispierre then in the last year of the Ancient Regime – but under Robispierre wealth, family, and connections wouldn’t get you a pass, and everybody new it
Just Some Fuckhead
@Tim:
Those are the ratfucking Republican trolls. Normally, they can hide it well but Taibbi causes them so much pain, they can’t help themselves.
suzanne
@Christin:
It’s not genius, it’s forthrightness. And honesty.
Both of which are in frightfully short supply.
WyldPirate
IT’s interesting that there is this deafening silence WRT the fact that nearly all of Obama’s initial economic team were the very same Democratic “third-way” Clinton hacks who played such a role in deregulation that caused much of the economic collapse.
Obama couldn’t have possibly connected those dots. It’s unpossible for such a failure to have occurred.
Christin
@suzanne:
i’ll just disagree.
Fuck that is nothing but ignorant when you have nothing else.
My right wing brother and right wing coworker belch out “fuck that shit” when I throw facts and the truth at them. It’s all they have.
Examples:
Me: 97 percent of climate scientists say global warming is real.
Right Wing Brother: What? Fuck those scientists.
Me: Obama is a a socialist. Or a Muslim. Prove both or just one.
Right wing coworker? What? Fuck that shit. He is. Both.
Taibbi is no different with this fuck that bullshit.
it’s just that you like him.
if sarah palin said it, you’d be all over her.
which is why the double standards on both sides bore the utter living shit out of me.
gnomedad
@SiubhanDuinne:
+1 lol
Montysano
@Christin:
Care to post a link, genius?
Which one of these facts do you find un-facty?
The Sheriff's A Ni-
So, wait, Gergen is saying Obama is bad for business for not having guys like Rubin even though he had Rubin on the transition team and now has advisors who worked with Rubin?
Nick
@Steve:
Not the White House, just Congress.
Christin
@Just Some Fuckhead:
actually, not all of us worship at the alter of Taibbi.
i don’t care for him. and i really like michael moore either.
and i’ve been a Liberal all my life.
is thinking he walks on water a req now being a Democrat or something? in the brilliant words of taibbi, fuck that.
and the nonsense about being a right wing troll are tedious at best.
priscianus jr
@Steve:
DonkeyKong
The Taibbi response to Gergen reminds me of this scene from Michael Mann’s best film (no not Heat)
Tobacco Lawyer: Dr. Wigand, I am instructing you not to answer that question in accordance to the terms of the contractual obligations undertaken by you not to disclose any information about your work at the Brown and Williamson tobacco company, and in accordance with the force and effect of the temporary restraining order that has been entered against you by the court in the state of Kentucky. That means you don’t talk! Mr. Motley we have rights here.
Ron Motley: Boy, you got rights… and lefts. Ups and downs and middles. So what? You don’t get to instruct anything around here! This is not North Carolina, not South Carolina, nor Kentucky! This is the sovereign state of Mississippi’s proceedings. Wipe that smirk off your face! Dr. Wigand’s deposition will be part of this record! And I’m gonna take my witness’ testimony whether the hell you like it or not!
Nick
@Tim:
I’ll still trash him. he’s on the right track, but often is divorced from reality and his articles are often factually incorrect. Even self-proclaimed Obama-hating Socialist Charles Lemos said so, and tore his pieces apart.
DonkeyKong
Christin, I personaly don’t agree with everything anybody sez including myself (hey I’m a mid 20th century style liberal, I contain multitudes) I like Taibbi and Moore, to quote Lincoln, because they fight.
Simple as that.
danimal
Gergen conflates Taibbi’s attitude toward the banksters/business community with Obama and the congressional Dems. He (as a surrogate of the business community) truly can’t recognize the difference between Taibbi and Obama.
Chew on that for a minute.
priscianus jr
@Christin:
ed
Your concern has been noted, thank you.
Any comment on what Montysano said @68?
jwb
@Mark S.: I’m sure you’re right about Gergen not doing other round tables with Taibbi, because Taibbi just showed that he’s not a very serious person and very serious persons simply do not do round tables with nonserious people, unless they are teabaggers in which case we’d all do better listening to them because they are spouting the very nonsense that Fox News wants them to spout and which we very serious people ignore at our peril because, after all, Fox News told them what to say so we have to pay attention to it or something.
What I particularly liked about this piece is the way Taibbi managed to completely discombobulate Gergen and even Hart by refusing to accept the common wisdom about what anything means politically or even the basic rules of the game.
Christin
@DonkeyKong:
that’s cool. you like them because they fight.
i get that.
but i’m done with that for now.
mainly because i see the far left and progressives yelling that we should do, and obama should do, the same things the far right wanted bush to do.
so the far right wants what they want and they want bush to do their bidding. it’s bad.
we want the same things but for our causes. it’s not bad.
that’s what bores me now.
we get a guy who says that I can’t be the D GW.
and the screaming starts. christ.
i’m going off track.
anyway, i don’t like them because hannity and beck fight too.
fighters don’t cut it for me anymore.
sounds stupid, i know. but whatever. it is what it is.
intelligence, an ability to lead, an ability to get things done, and ability to compromise to move forward, blah blah and blah.
that’s what i like.
fighting gets us fighters on the other side who give it back just as hard and we go nowhere. just stuck in the same spot.
i dunno. again, i’m so bored with this shit lately.
i see no hope for this country anymore.
just more stupid. november 2010 confirmed that more than 04 did.
hence. bored now.
Chris
I need to go all Jim Mora for a moment: “Hostility? Hostility?!? HOSTILITY?!?”
It’s as if Gergen thinks the Obama Administration is trying to kill Wall Street like a Spanish conquistador, pouring gold down its throat until it chokes to death.
Except no, it’s just going into their fucking wallets.
What, it’s not enough that Wall Street’s getting all the money, they want everyone to kiss their fucking ass, too?
Nick
@Chris:
I don’t think people on the left really understand how much the banking industry HATED FinReg. This is why I can’t stand people like Taibbi, while he has a point, he doesn’t get that Obama isn’t a whore of the banking industry, it’s not black or white.
Yes, he hasn’t broken up banks and put people in jail, not that he actually could.
But he hasn’t been sucking their cocks either.
Christin
@ed:
when you figure out how to ask a question without the asinine boring “your concern has been noted….” crap?
get back to me.
ed
So no comment on:
Looks to me (and Montysano, and, presumably, other reality-based folk) that Taibbi backed up his oh so uncivil rhetoric with some facts. Any comment, or did you get your delicate fee-fees hurt?
bjrubble
@Christin: My right wing brother and right wing coworker belch out “fuck that shit” when I throw facts and the truth at them. It’s all they have.
Yes, but here Taibbi was responding to the suggestion that “we can’t do X because Y objects to it.” In that case, “Fuck Y” is perfectly on point.
Gergen (paraphrased): We should do what the business community wants us to do
Taibbi (paraphrased): We shouldn’t care what the business community wants us to do
Taibbi’s style may not be appropriate for every forum, but set against the intellectually deadening CW talking head bloviation put up by Gergen it’s exactly right IMO.
Comrade Kevin
@Christin: In other words, you have no answer.
tkogrumpy
@jwb: Yes and that is why I like Taibbi. That and he is the spitting image of my son.
Elia
@Christin: you will burn for this, heretic.
Christin
@ed:
fee fees? what the ?
looks to me.
that you can’t claim being an intellectual is what you’re good at.
you’re hung up on this once piece by taibbi, when i meant overall.
he misquotes facts. and misquotes quotes. and misquotes sources.
and when he’s called on it. just shrugs it off.
and that’s more than i felt like saying to you.
again, your first insult was just asinine.
now you’re just getting boring. you’ll need to take our your frustrations on someone else who still finds this kind of tedious crap with an anonymous screen name interesting or entertaining.
i don’t.
Comrade Kevin
@Christin:
Someone using an anonymous screen name bitching about someone else using an anonymous screen name. HA!
PeakVT
@Comrade Luke: +1
Gergen is pretty clever there, switching the discussion from the banksters to the “business community” whatever that is. (AFAIK the corner stores in my ‘hood don’t have the same problems as Shitibank.) I don’t see where Obama has been hostile to the business community as whole, and he has been insufficiently hostile to the banking sector IMHO.
Christin
@Elia:
used to it .
when i tell my right wing brother glen beck is a fucking idiot, he starts insulting me and explaining how beck can back it up et al.
nothing new here.
“What I suspect is that the president is probably a clinical narcissist. This is not necessarily a bad condition if one maintains for oneself what the psychiatrists call an “optimal margin of illusion,” that is, the margin of hope that allows you to work.” Matt Taibbi, bloviating on Barack Obama or something. Idiot pop psychologist.
Christin
@Comrade Kevin:
holy shit. was there a sale on stoopidjuice tonight?
i’m not bitching about the fact that the screen name is anonymous.
who gives a shit about that?
what i said was that…..oh christ. never effing mind.
cheers.
Comrade Kevin
I think Matt Taibbi must have run over Christin’s dog or something.
Just Some Fuckhead
Awwwww.. Mattt Taibbi hurtums Obot’s fee-fees.
Rathskeller
@Christin: So in other words, you have nothing but opinions, you can’t cite any facts to back up your derision towards Taibbi, you can’t make any references to other smarter people, and you don’t respond to direct questions except with insults and irrelevant stories.
Gee, we’d all love to talk to you more and hear your wisdom. Can you tell us about when you sang with the barbershop quartet in Skokie, IL?
Comrade Kevin
@Christin:
You seem to be heavy into it, judging by the weird way you write your comments, so possibly.
Oh really? Then why did you bring it up?
Johannes
I don’t always agree with Taibbi, but his smackdown of Broder is righteous. He’s not playing the “Serious Pundit” game or deferring to “the Dean.” And, on this point, his contempt is well justified–the “business community” should be worshipping a Golden Obama for his not capitalizing on populist rage against them upon his inauguration. Broder’s accepting as legit their whine that Obama saved their asses without kissing them.
Nick
@Just Some Fuckhead:
David Gergen is no where near an Obot.
Jrod the Cookie Thief
@Christin:
This is a joke, right?
WE. ARE. BEING. ATTACKED.
Not fighting back means we lose. Maybe you don’t realize it, but “stuck in the same spot” is awesome when the alternative is “stuck in a worse spot.”
If you’re bored, then fuck off. Your cowardly concern isn’t useful.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Comrade Kevin: None of the Obots here can stand him because he said something negative about Obama. You can’t ever criticize Obama because he’s not a normal bruising politician playing in the political big leagues. He’s a tiny helpless little thing that must be mothered and protected.
Contrast that with the Obots frequent and vitriolic attacks on Harry Reid who is, in fact, a tiny helpless little thing.
b-psycho
@Christin: Context matters. Gergen basically admitted that criminals defined “the business community” and then proceeded to see no problem with that. If “the business community” is criminals, then what reason is there to praise it or be gentle with it?
Yes, saying “fuck ’em!” isn’t enough. But some people simply deserve to hear it. Hopefully the fucking can actually commence someday.
ed
Christin @54:
Montysano @68:
Christin @89:
Shorter Christin: Taibbi doesn’t use facts except when he uses facts in the specific piece referenced in this blog post.
Good day.
Ailuridae
@Montysano:
Most objections around here to Taibbi are from his parroting the ridiculous “the real cost of the bank bailout is 24 trillion” nonsense. He’s a useful ally but he is incredibly fast and loose with facts and has been back to his days in Buffalo.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Just Some Fuckhead:
This “Obot” happens to like Taibbi quite a bit even though he dares to criticize “Dear Leader”. I can see where Matt is coming from in his criticism, disagree with it if I feel I have to, yet I still enjoy reading most everything he writes about. Greenwald could learn something from him. Ok, too much to ask…lol!
Hope yer brain didn’t pop. :)
@Anachronym: Exactly.
Taibbi has a way of succinctly summarizing the emotion of a point but he could do better if he took the time to think out a better response where he takes ‘the shot’ at the subject and immediately follows that with a pointed observation on that subject.
Menzies
@Christin:
I googled that quote. I find it sourced to Marty Peretz.
@Ailuridae:
I’ve been reading Griftopia since Monday or so and was rather surprised by the “real cost of the bank bailout, when all is said and done, will be over $13 trillion,” or whatever it was. Where exactly did that come from anyway? Is it him taking the long view? Adding in some numbers that aren’t in the usual calculation for a good reason?
I am absolute shit with numbers and econometrics, and I don’t trust Taibbi unquestioningly, but at least in the book he’s fairly comprehensive in detailing the sequences of events that led to the crap that’s happening. I wonder if that’s not the novelist in him coming out.
Ailuridae
@Menzies:
I haven’t cracked Griftopia yet so I don’t know where he is getting his numbers from. As near as I can tell the trillions start with an IG report from Neil Barofsky.
When they start talking about trillions they have to begin talking about programs like the normal functioning of the FDIC (whose total expenses as a result of failed banks is over 2T and approaching 3T). Is the FDIC guaranteeing customer deposits a “bailout” in any meaningful sense? Does it enrich banks or is it performing exactly as it is intended?
I suppose one could argue that the Fed’s actions which increased it balance sheet from 600M to about 2.3T is a bad idea but is it a “bail out”? That’s what Sarah Palin thinks it is (and apparently Taibbi agrees) but what about liberal economists? Are Brad DeLong and Paul Krugman now just Wall Street shills?
When I look at the cost of the bailout I basically look at the size of the AIG portion of TARP as that was a straight transfer of cash from the public to banks. And then I may consider most of the GSE (Fannie and Freddie) losses to be part of a bailout. When people say banks are paying off TARP and the government is making money that is, plainly, bull shit on the larger scale (although for many individual banks including my own this is true) but it is no less bull shit to throw out numbers like 8 or 9 or 14 or 24 trillion especially when 5T of it (the Fed’s actions and the FDIC) is plainly nonsense.
Tom
FUCK THE HOSTAGES!!
(loved that moment, great job Taibbi)
John O
@Chris:
Yes.
That was an easy one.
I’m also a big Matt fan.
Chris
@Nick:
That may be (your remark that the banking industry HATED FinReg), but it doesn’t mean their ire is legitimate or justifiable.
We’re talking about an industry that only made a shitload of money this year instead of a fuckload. Poor babies.
We’re talking about an industry that when they fucked up, got bailed out by the feds, who said, “Hey, you want to actually start lending money again?” retorted, “Fuck you, we like having our money for ourselves!”
We’re talking about an industry that has been able to get its lobbyists in to the highest-level regulatory meetings – not to mention into the highest echelons of regulatory agencies themselves.
We’re talking about an industry that has its own branch of cable news coverage – and sycophantic hosts, shills, and flacks – to impress the rest of us with how vital their business is to the rest of the country.
We’re talking about an industry that managed to argue that bailouts were absolutely necessary, even while they were arguing that the government needed to stay out of their business.
We’re talking about an industry that as Dick Durbin put it even after the first shockwaves of the financial crisis, “frankly, still owns the place.” (“the place” being Capitol Hill)
We’re talking about an industry that just happens to be using the same “Never take yes for an answer” school of negotiation that Republicans have perfected.
Speaking of which, we’re talking about an industry that created some of the most nonsensical political alliances and arguments of the decade: “Pissed off at Wall Street? Vote Republican!” Yeah, that’ll show ’em. (I’m not wholly blaming either Wall Street or Boehner for attacking Obama/Democrats from both sides on that; it’s more of an observation of the absolute incoherence and my consternation that voters actually find it plausible.)
We’re talking about an industry that seems to find a new way to fuck the rest of us out of money every time we turn around.
We’re talking about an industry that appears, for all practical purposes, to have no greater morals than the mafia, except that the customers of the mob actually take some (albeit temporary, if less-than-healthy) pleasure from drugs, gambling, and prostitution.
But apparently we’re talking about an industry with delicate feelings not unlike those of Virginia Thomas, who wanted Anita Hill to apologize for making her feel bad for the overwhelming success of her husband and his political movement. As they say, that’s rich.
WyldPirate
@Ailuridae:
Your hero Obama has said this on several occasions.
Ailuridae
@WyldPirate:
And? Jeebus you’re absolutely fucking useless.
Robert Waldmann
I would have liked to see Gergen’s face, but Robert Rubin is not exactly what Matt Taibbi should be talking about. Rubin did NOT push through the commodity futures modernization act. Rubin was NOT employed by the US government when Bill Clinton signed the commodity futures modernization act into law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Rubin
“Mr. Rubin was succeeded on July 1, 1999, as Treasury Secretary by his deputy, Lawrence H. Summers..”
“The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_futures_modernization_act
I know this is too subtle for Matt Taibbi but 2000 > 1999.
Rubin warned that the new derivatives were extremely dangerous. Rubin’s successor as Secretary of the Treasury, Larry Summers said that Rubin wanted to make people play with wooden tennis rackets.
Matt Taibbi is as crazy as a tea bagger. He confidently makes absolutely false claims on simple matters of fact. You can be reality based or a fan of Matt Taibbi but not both. He is no more reliable, sane or reasonable than Glenn Beck.
Basically you can be very certain that if Matt Taibbi makes a claim of fact which includes the word “Rubin” then the claim is false. If you don’t care about facts and reality, fine. If you prefer truth to lies, then stop paying attention to Matt Taibbi who lies shamelessly and regularly.
Robert Waldmann
Let me put it more briefly.
Matt Taibbi is to Robert Rubin as Glenn Beck is to George Soros. There is the same level of sanity and integrity in both cases. I assert that there is no substantive difference between the two interactions between the two pairs.
Matt Taibbi is a leftist, Glenn Beck is a rightist. They are both crazy liars.
debbie
Gergen’s got a lousy memory. The administration’s perceived hostility came after Wall Street opposition. In fact, Wall Street’s opposition is based on their disappointment that Obama intended to prevent Wall Street from raping the country all over again.
I cannot wait to read Taibbi’s “Griftopia” and Joe Nocera’s books.
bartkid
>I Would Pay Cash Money To See The Look on Gergen’s Face
Forget that; I want the audio.
Put some Black Flag basslines underneath, and I think I would never listen to anything else for the remainder of the year.
Paul in KY
@Christin: Might I say ‘fuck you’ to your above opinion?
mbss
@Robert Waldmann:
Rubin did NOT push through the commodity futures modernization act.
wrong. you’re the liar.
The saga of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act begins in 1998. At the time, the economy was booming, stocks soared, and new instruments of trading were found to make more money while evading the oversight of regulatory bodies. Two of those growing instruments were financial derivatives and credit-default swaps. As these new financial instruments emerged a debate began over whether or not to regulate them.
The chairman of the Commodity Futures Trade Commission (CFTC) Brooksley Born issued a first call for her regulatory commission to have power to oversee financial derivatives. While previous legislative attempts had been made earlier, Born’s efforts were the most direct and threatening to the financial industry. During an April 1998 meeting of the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets, Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin (and later Secretary Larry Summers), and Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) chairman Arthur Levitt opposed Born’s efforts and attempted to derail her.
http://blog.sunlightfoundation.com/2009/04/01/read-the-bill-the-commodity-futures-modernization-act/
Bill Murray
@Robert Waldmann: and exactly how does that differentiate either from Rubin?
Further, pushing a bill requires access which is not limited to government employees and in this case took a fairly long time to come to fruition, so the date Rubin left compared to the final passage date are rather irrelevant in this case.
Christin
@Jrod the Cookie Thief:
i see being an ignorant moron comes easy to you
you’re about as useful as a screeching jane hampsher.