I need a break. I’m not thinking rationally and getting to emotionally invested in this shit. I’ll be in and out, but basically out until Monday, when the site rebuild happens.
Try not to tear the joint down. If you need me, tonight I’ll be with the DKOS crew on Garrosh killing things, because if anything cheers me up, it is an undead mage on a chocobo.
Also, last call for things you want done in the site rebuild. Send your comments, concerns, screenshots to [email protected].com.
Lok’tar Ogar.
Andrew
Yes, everyone is hysterical right now.
Again, I think that Obama badly f*cked up this tax cut situation, but right now, I sense that a lot of liberals – even relatively moderate types – are mad as hell right and essentially thinking: “fuck it, if the Republicans want this country to burn down, let it.”
Mnemosyne
When you complain that the president is escaping to a nice, cozy war zone to avoid domestic politics, it’s definitely time for a break.
Suck It Up!
balloon juicers readers are going through a crisis and what is John Cole doing?…………..playing video games.
Kryptik
Welcome to the fold John.
Never thought I’d welcome the term ‘Manic Progressive’, but fuck all if the last few months haven’t made me as fucking manic as all hell.
Why do Democratic politicians insist on learning the exact wrong lessons from every single fucking defeat and shame they experience?
PurpleGirl
Have fun!
BR
Suggestion for the frustrated: call your senators about the tax cut extension. You’ll feel better.
I called, told them I wanted the tax cut extended on only the first 250k, and that they should under no circumstances extend it for the rich, and they should let it expire if the have to to achieve that.
WyldPirate
JC, I think you’re thinking is just fine and your rationality is intact. It’s the reality of the slow-motion Dem train wreck that is so disturbing.
What was that bumper sticker that got popular during the Bush years?
FormerSwingVoter
Wait, Cole’s away for a bit?
…
You heard the man! It’s Pantsless Friday!
Woohoo!
russell
Easter eggs!
PurpleGirl
@Suck It Up!: A man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do. And for JC right now that’s playing video games.
Bowser's Clown Copter
Well, we can at least laugh at Tim Pawlenty:
Jeremy Giefer, accused child molester, got Pawlenty pardon to open childcare center
edit: oh god how do blockquotes work :(
Midnight Marauder
This smacks of readership capture.
stuckinred
@WyldPirate: How about
Drive On, It Don’t Mean Nuthin
Drive on, don’t mean nothin’
My children love me, but they don’t understand
And I got a woman who knows her man
Drive on, don’t mean nothin’, drive on
Tony J
FTLOTFSM please fix the scrolling-text problem. Other than that, things here are fine.
I’d wish you a happy weekend off indulging in guilt-free geekery and pet-stroking, but given what happened last time you said you were having a time-out, I expect you’ll be back here in the early hours of the morning with a half-dozen drunken rants that you “Just had to get off your chest” anyway.
Face it, Cole, you’re an addict.
Sentient Puddle
Five hours until work is out, five hours until work is out…
I discovered late last night before going to bed that dual talents was dropped to level 30 and 10 gold. I wish I discovered that earlier in the night because I’ve been itching to get back into playing a shadow priest.
bjacques
As a Balloon Juice denizen, I plan to sit up all night to the sound of bald men and boys in black chattering their teeth, and then try in the morning to figure out how I’ve been changed.
General Stuck
Hang in there big guy, I still loves ya, no matter about politics.
Cat
I want scrolling RSS feeds next to commentators names.
Screw websites, lets have people linking their armory RSS feeds.
The Grand Panjandrum
Yes, yes, yes. The famous John Cole Hiatus Post …. again. You’ll be back before the sun sets. You can’t quit us. You know that.
stuckinred
You’re a man of the mountains, you can walk on the clouds
Manipulator of crowds, you’re a dream twister
You’re going to Sodom and Gomorrah
But what do you care? Ain’t nobody there would want to marry your sister
Friend to the martyr, a friend to the woman of shame
You look into the fiery furnace, see the rich man without any name
Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman
cs
The only thing better than an undead on a chocobo is a tauren on a chocobo, and the only thing better than that is a tauren shadow priest on a chocobo. Two tons of feathery evil.
Don’t forget to get a goblin tabard from the quartermaster in Org so you can get your rocket-powered trike. Didn’t take too long on the 80 running randoms but I think the flickering rocket flare is going to give me an epileptic fit.
PeakVT
I wrote something about emotional investment a while back:
Leaving aside whether they should or not, it’s clear that progressives work off of emotion a lot of the time. That is not surprising, because it takes a certain amount of courage to publicly advocate for a substantial change in society. Doing so means potentially facing disapproval from the rest of society, facing the fear of proposing a something new and untested, and facing the fear of failure. Nobody would choose to go up against those obstacles without a good reason and some passion. So progressives have to work themselves up before heading out to organize and campaign. And because of the nature of the emotion, progressive’s energy can be deflated fairly easily. Contrast this with the other side, which has a default position against change, and frequently operates on hate or fear. The latter two emotions are much more enduring than hope.
I don’t have any solutions, though.
stuckinred
@PeakVT: That’s because there are no solutions.
R-Jud
@FormerSwingVoter:
Isn’t EVERY Friday Pantsless Friday?
If not, it should be.
Also, if anyone is looking to get hysterical about something WAY off the beaten path, I have a purchasing decision I need help with. It’s child-related (as in a purchase for a child, not of one).
WyldPirate
@stuckinred:
Good one, stuckinred. Some days, you gotta just get up, put one foot in front of another and be thankful for the ability to work on your “short-timers” calander.
Just goes to show that some Days are Better than Others.
Some days it all adds up
And what you got is not enough
Some days are better than others
Some days are slippy, other days sloppy
Some days you can’t stand the sight of a puppy
Your skin is white but you think you’re a brother
Some days are better than others
burnspbesq
John Cole:
You say that like it’s a bad thing. There is a lot at stake right now. If you’re not riled up, you’re not paying attention.
Shawn in ShowMe
@burnspbesq
You know who else got riled up?
Crashman
I know Left 4 Dead 2 has been out for a while, but I just got on the train and I am really enjoying it. It’s viscerally satisfying to chop a zombie in half with a machete, and hilariously funny to whack one’s head off with a cast-iron frying pan.
You Don't Say
Good post by Benen about finger-pointing.
ruemara
I yearn for Wreck List, but I just. can’t. hack. Horde. NELF 4evah. Especially after the damage you lot did to Ashenvale. Garrosh is making it easier to take sides. Tonight, I’m gonna finish Ulduar and Sunwell. Enjoy the 40 minutes off until you post something after your ‘break’.
Culture of Truth
Charles Manson Found With Mobile Phone in Jail Cell
Manson was able to make phone calls and send text messages from behind bars.
South of I-10
@R-Jud: I like the bee.
Fuck! A Duck
14 more Cole posts in 5…4…3…2…
Sentient Puddle
Thirty-strikeout pile-up on the thread below. Need back-up.
jinxtigr
@R-Jud:
Oh.
…
never mind :)
Mnemosyne
I am very proud of myself right now: I actually managed to finish knitting both a hat and a scarf for my father-in-law the day before G leaves on his trip to see him. They’re all washed and blocked and everything!
Plus I have about 80% of a hat for G that I’m going to try to finish tonight and jam onto his head when he gets on the early morning Super Shuttle. I love the man dearly, but I was not going to drive him to LAX for a 6 am flight.
PurpleGirl
@R-Jud: I left you my opinion and then surfed your site a bit. Bean is way cute.
J.W. Hamner
Are trolls the Horde’s firebaggers or O-bots?
4tehlulz
OT: One alleged moderate down, two (?) more to go.
Also, fuck the fix for ‘shopping Mr. Rogers.
chopper
well, “manic progressive” is a frustrating mess.
Punchy
But which character in your game does Sullivan play?
Rhoda
It’s the holidays, everyone should just let their freak flag fly and get out this shit.
But let’s not pretend it’ll mean anything. First Read had this comment today:
taylormattd
@Midnight Marauder: The ombudsman simply does not care for your comment.
taylormattd
@Punchy: Sullivan is not allowed in our guild.
Just Some Fuckhead
In John’s absence, I have appointed myself Balloon Juice ombudsman.
Just Some Fuckhead
Note, I will not be doing any actual ombudsmanning until I read up on it and figure out what the hell it involves.
Bowser's Clown Copter
@Cat: Okay.
Having all but finished Loremaster of Eastern Kingdoms: I’m most impressed by the new Hillsbrad and Burning Steppes, and disappointed by the new Arathi Highlands (same as the old one) and Hinterlands (ditto). Every other zone I’ve done so far is greatly improved over vanilla, even the ones like Northern Barrens and Feralas where the quests themselves are about the same but the overall flow (read: travel time to and from the questgiver) is a lot more efficient. I think I’ve only had to consult Wowhead once.
TweededHipster
With administrative supervision out of the house, I request a rant from DougJ
DonkeyKong
This is the final stages of the “starve the beast” 30 year war on this country and the president might be the midwife by extending tax cuts and cutting social security and medicare.
So whats our plan?
Check this out, man the phones and intertubes with this information going back 20 years on who are the producer states and what state suck must vigorously off the federal teat.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html
“Starve the Beast” vs “Starve the Little Beasties.”
Every state should function within their means. If we can move this into the media it would change the fundamental argument we’ve had in this country about who is carrying who.
Svensker
@R-Jud:
Depends if it’s a boy or girl. Girl would prolly like the prettier cuter one, boy would like the tougher one (tiger, lion, etc.) I’m partial to silly bumble bee stripes meself.
j low
@Mnemosyne: Way to miss the point.
Batocchio
Oh, if only at least one party would champion the horde (98% of Americans versus the richest 2%).
stuckinred
@WyldPirate: Fuckin A
Emerald
In the site rebuild: I want some way to find my comments and see if anyone has responded.
If you folks don’t want embedded comment threads, at least give us a “comments page” so we can find replies to our own comments, even if we can’t follow someone else’s conversation in long threads without going backwards.
That’s the best thing about the DK engine. You can have a conversation (not that I’d want to do that over there any more) over several days through your own comments page.
Here, if I want to find any responses, I have to have a sharp eye. And I don’t.
Clockwork Buddha
Sully could make his dream bear with the dwarf choices – beards could house a marching band.
And Mr. Cole – may the eternal sun shine upon thee.
Mike Goetz
Well. Scott Brown publically stating his support for repeal is certainly an interesting development. This is either: the opening shot in moderate Republican telling McConnell to sit and rotate; or the tax deal is largely done and Senators have been released to move on to other business.
WarMunchkin
Wait just a fucking second. I played FFXI. Since when did Chocobos migrate to WoW?
Mike Goetz
@Just Some Fuckhead:
When somebody asks you what you want to drink, you say “Um…Buds, man!”
Sentient Puddle
@Just Some Fuckhead: You could sufficiently approximate a Balloon Juice ombudsman by saying “Go fuck yourself” to anyone bitching.
JMC in the ATL
What server are the Kossacks on? I think my guild is crumbling.
For the Horde!
Mike Goetz
@Mike Goetz:
“publicly,” dingus.
licensed to kill time
@Emerald:
Do you use Firefox? If so, you can do a Ctrl+F and put your handle in the box that opens up. It will find the first instance of your nym and all subsequent ones, that way you can find all the replies to you easily.
themann1086
Victory Or Death!
@Bowser’s Clown Copter: I thought the Horde-side Hinterlands was changed up enough to be interesting. But yeah, I think they forgot about Arathi Highlands…
Oh, and Southern Barrens is a must. It’s excellent.
WereBear
I just found this out:
We’re doomed, I tells ya. Doomed.
Bdc
How many dems would happily vote Hellscream 2012? He could even edge out Basic Campfire!
Rick Taylor
You seem rational to me, John. These are stressful times.
bemused
@Bowser’s Clown Copter:
Along with other presidential hopefuls, T-Paw is coming out with a memoir next month (news to me) which is titled “Courage to Stand: An American Story”. Gag, puke. He should have named it “Courage to Burn Down a State with a Huge, Happy Grin on My Face”. Better yet, his ghostwriter was the co-author of Hulk Hogan’s book “My Life Outside the Ring”. Different wrestler, not ex Gov Jesse Ventura but still an odd slant to the story.
Culture of Truth
I have Kinkade’s “Christmas in Hackensack” on my wall
Sentient Puddle
@JMC in the ATL: Garrosh. Look up Wreck List. Think they’re now requesting that you apply on the website to get in (it’s a quick and easy enough process).
Mnemosyne
@j low:
So enlighten me as to what the point was, because right now it looks like “wag the dog” bullshit to claim that Obama is running away from the tax bill by going to visit Afghanistan, that noted vacation spot.
Just Some Fuckhead
@WereBear:
That means there are at least two or three on Balloon Juice, mathematically.
Emerald
@Rhoda:
Indeed.
Why all the hysteria now? Simple. The Dems just lost the midterms. The Pres is the head of the Dems. Ergo, the wolves stop circling and start attacking. Of course the President was going to get attacked at this point. Back in Reagan’s first term he dropped like a stone to a low of 31% after the midterms (Jan of ’83). Everybody though he’d be a one-termer. Clinton also dropped lower than Obama at this point, and no one thought he could be re-elected either.
So everybody, just take a breath. It’s the silly season. It will pass.
As to Obama’s supposedly passive style, while I admit I’d like to see a more aggressive style myself, I stand in awe of the stuff they guy had achieved with that passive style.
It’s the most of any president since LBJ, some say since FDR, and he’s done it against the most solid opposition since the Civil War, and in less than two years. HCR alone, which no one thought he could pass once Scott Brown won–ought to tell us something about how weak or strong Obama is.
Yet both LBJ and FDR had supermajorities, and had Republicans voting with them on some issues (FDR did have to fight his own Southern Democrats–he did that by capitulating to them on Social Security, for example, which is why the Left despised him. He kept doing that to get his legislation passed. The Left said he was a sell-out and weak.).
Obama’s passive style is infuriating to those who, like me, want to see the Republicans beaten and bloodied, but by golly he’s getting stuff done that seems impossible. So maybe he’s got the right style after all.
On the Barbara WaWa special he referred to Lincoln’s never having said anything aggressive or demeaning to the Confederates. Lincoln always referred to rebels with compassion. Lincoln would have had a much more lenient Reconstruction if he had lived, and that probably would have been the right move for the country, but I’m betting that Lincoln’s supporters would have been furious with him over it. They wanted revenge, just as we want revenge for the last 30 years.
And I stopped paying attention to Krugman when he started whining that the stimulus was too small, then admitted that there was no way to pass a larger one but it was still Obama’s fault.
And yes, the stimulus worked.
The Prez is doing all right by me. I’m not crazy about his style either, but it seems to be working for him so far.
Svensker
@WereBear:
I have a friend who likes him, and she is smart, interesting, etc. Can’t figure it out.
Doomed!
You Don't Say
@Rhoda: Agreed.
PeakVT
@stuckinred: Maybe not, but at least we can note the asymmetry.
El Cid
I dunno. Maybe people ought to get somewhat excited about how no matter how many people poo-poohed the possibility of the cat food commission’s recommendations on Social Security to get 14 votes, the majority vote commitment means that in effect the 14 vote standard never meant anything and will be carried forth as the important thing.
Via Digby.
This will be viewed among so many Democratic leaders and endlessly portrayed by so many media and pundit sources as a necessary and mature solution that may very well go forth as a Grand Bargain on finally doing something about all that nasty excess of social benefits to be agreed to by Democrats.
And yes, I think that the Democratic Party will be in a bunch of shit if they think that pleasing the centrists and fake deficit hawks and Republicans by fucking with Social Security will do them some good.
But I know, they’re more sophisticated than me, Obama knows what he’s doing, they won’t do this, if they do the voters won’t care, and so on and so forth.
Davis X. Machina
@Mnemosyne: If I were going to A-stan, I’d go — for security purposes — when it would be safe for anybody wishing to do me bodily harm to assume I’d be stuck in Washington.
Omnes Omnibus
@WereBear: Doomed indeed. Are these the sorts of things get when you shop for a “sofa sized picture?”
chopper
@Emerald:
that sounds oddly familiar.
Emerald
@licensed to kill time: No, I use Safari on a Mac. But I’ll try Firefox and see if that works.
Hate to shift to a different browser just for this one site, though.
Judas Escargot
@Mike Goetz:
Well. Scott Brown publically stating his support for repeal [of DADT] is certainly an interesting development.
He’s probably thinking he’d rather keep his seat in 2012 than necessarily do McConnell’s bidding on this. And it’s a pretty safe position, given the polls.
Don’t worry, he’ll go right back to blocking unemployment extensions and shilling for all the Bush tax cuts to be extended next week.
That said, the new Halo: Reach multiplayer maps are out, and Future-Misses has already been advised as to my whereabouts for most of this coming weekend. There’s a lot to be said for forms of online interaction that are…. simpler.
bemused
@WereBear:
Check out somethingawful. People have done some hilarious, twisted photoshopping to Kinkade paintings.
lacp
@Davis X. Machina: No problem with the timing of this visit; looks like a pretty good move actually. And I say that as somebody who is in no way, shape, or form an Obama fan.
stuckinred
@PeakVT: noted
Emerald
@chopper: The Left finally adopted FDR as their favorite progressive son in 1948, after it became clear that despite all their whining, he actually had achieved the stuff they wanted. But while FDR was in office they despised him.
My prediction: in about 2020 or so, give or take some years, they’ll do the same to Obama, the wonderful progressive president who got us our health care system when nobody else could, and got us out of those Middle Eastern wars.
Martin
Take a break, Cole.
As a bit of a guide – if you are getting worked up over rumors and Borderisms and not over actual actions in the Senate or the WH – you probably need a breather.
Looking forward to the work on the site.
Culture of Truth
It’s the holidays and Obama is visting the troops. Get a grip!
licensed to kill time
@Emerald:
You wouldn’t be the first to download a new browser just for this site. Balloon Juicers are a dedicated lot :)
Cat
@Bowser’s Clown Copter: Desolace is 10x better as horde, but don’t forget the Stonetalon Peak FP or you’ll be stuck there.
Thats my only real complaint to the new zone design, all the extra FP make it much easier to get stuck if you happen to miss an important hub.
aliasofwestgate
Eh, its december. All presidents visit the troops this month, particularly early on to begin with. Since there’s always half a dozen DC functions going on closer to the actual date. So the visit is nothing out of the ordinary.
I’m getting REALLY tired of the OMGWTFBBQ going on at other sites though. At this point i’m eating, braving the crowds to get a little provision shopping in and then i’m going ot get my books organized somewhat.
Pretty good plan, since i work the rest of the weekend.
Tonal Crow
* Make blockquotes handle multiple paragraphs correctly.
* Make blockquotes refrain from bolding everything.
* Fix the “spam” filter so that I don’t have to write “soshulism” or “soçialism”.
* Fix the spurious “denied” problem with editing.
* Moar kittehs pleaz!
A Ghost To Most
Have fun, JC. We know you’ll be back when the next piece of shit hits the fan.
BTW, I actually DO own the pseudonym “Manic Progressive” at DKOS (I’m bipolar, sue me). If anyone wants to use it to stir shit up over there, let me know; I rarely go there anymore.
El Cid
@chopper: Also on excluding agricultural employees from labor rights.
And though it was indeed a victory for the seniority-rich Southern Democrats, FDR’s huge investment in military bases, industrial production for war use, infrastructure, power generation, etc. in the disastrously poor, undeveloped South actually did benefit the region tremendously.
Rick Taylor
@Emerald:
While I’m sympathetic to much of what you write, I have to respond here. First, from the little I’ve heard from historians, it’s been recognized that the repressiveness of Reconstruction was greatly exaggerated, and when reconstruction, literally tens of thousands of blacks were slaughtered.
__
Second, while I’ve been thinking about Obama and Lincoln, and recalling how respectful Lincoln was towards the south and how he worked to heal and bring together the nation. But let’s not forget, Lincoln fought a bloody war to do it.
licensed to kill time
@Tonal Crow: Make asterisks behave, also too!
FlipYrWhig
@chopper: Yes, there’s a segment of The Left that has a tendency to find everyone else insufficiently hardcore and berate them constantly for not doing things the obviously right and virtuous way. And then they separately complain about how frustrating it is that there aren’t more of them.
Mnemosyne
@El Cid:
It’s pretty easy for Evan Bayh to go around demanding things now that he’s out of Congress.
I have to admit, it’s pretty fascinating to watch the Blue Dogs try to completely ignore the fact that they were decimated in the election and insist that they are still the most powerful faction in Congress even though the Progressive Caucus outnumbers them 2 to 1. You’d think the media would catch on.
Emerald
@licensed to kill time: Oh I’ve got Firefox. I just like Safari.
The only good thing about DKos is it’s engine, which is the best on the web and I think a major reason the site was successful.
I miss it (I had a different screen name over there–note that I put that in past tense). I’d rather be over here–there’s far, far better commentary here–but this site is really antiquated to use.
I also seriously like DK’s “preview” feature, where you can see your comment and fix typos and such before you post. I just tried to edit some typos in my long post upthread, and the site wouldn’t let me do it even though my attempt was within the time period.
But I’ll try Firefox. I’ve used it before. I just like Safari better.
fourlegsgood
the site rebuild? please include me a pony.
kaithxbai
Midnight Marauder
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Sounds like you’re already an expert.
Emerald
@Rick Taylor:
Well of course, but he did his best to avoid that war. Despite the latest Sons of the Confederacy revisionism, it was the South that fired first.
But the fact that Lincoln was in a bloody war makes his constraint in his speech to the Confederates even more remarkable. FDR wasn’t that nice to the Nazis or the Japanese. Lincoln never forgot the reason for the war: to keep the union together. The rebels were still our countrymen, and he treated them that way.
I get the impression that Obama is very much following Lincoln’s lead in this. He’s looking toward the future and trying to keep the country together as much as possible. The Republicans try to divide us. Democrats try to keep us together. (Note how the parties have switched positions.)
To those of us who want punches thrown, it’s frustrating. I suspect that Obama may be right, however.
Tonal Crow
@Tonal Crow: Oh yeah, change the effect of a leading asterisk from bolding everything (as in the message to which I’m replying) to simply, um, placing an asterisk in the text. I’ll bold what I want, thank you very much.
Judas Escargot
@Rick Taylor:
I’ve been thinking about Obama and Lincoln, and recalling how respectful Lincoln was towards the south and how he worked to heal and bring together the nation. But let’s not forget, Lincoln fought a bloody war to do it.
And Lincoln was rewarded with a Southerner’s bullet.
From behind, no less.
lacp
@Midnight Marauder: Hey, ombudsmannerizering is hard work.
Corner Stone
@El Cid: My issue with the Catfood Commission has always been the “crack of the door” aspect of it. Once you open the door a little bit to these kinds of ideas they gain a life of their own.
And as we can see, the door is open, they are inside, and from the D signatories it’s obvious the calls are coming from inside the house.
IOW, they are quickly establishing a new baseline for CW. And even though SS is not even part of the deficit conversation, they have tied the two together.
Hal
Counting down the days until there is an “official” call for Obama to resign from some major Dem/Liberal/Progressive.
Martin
@Emerald: Chrome uses Safari’s engine and has some of Firefoxes nice little features. Aside from having horrific printing support, it’s a good browser.
You could also try installing Glims which adds a bunch of nice improvements to Safari.
FlipYrWhig
@Hal: Someone said in one of the other threads that Thom Hartmann had made that call. (Or, if not to resign, to say he’s not running for re-election.) Wants Dean instead.
eemom
hmmmm……
I just called for peace on the last thread, but on second thought, maybe I’ll just throw some gasoline on the fire and see what happens.
Why the FUCK should I care about DADT right now?
The whole country is teetering on the edge of the abyss, I don’t understand why ANYBODY wants to be in the military in the first place……and I gotta give a shit if DADT doesn’t get repealed Right. The. Fuck. Now?
Fuck that.
[whhhhhoooooooosh] [boooooooom] [craaaaackle]
Peter
@Crashman: L4D2 is good times. Once you’re familiar with the maps, I advise giving Versus mode a try. Having actually people controlling the Infected gives the game a vicious edge, and playing as the Infected is fun as hell.
geg6
@Andrew:
This. I know it’s how my John and I feel. Both of us would do anything to get the fuck out of this country and never look back.
sneezy
@Emerald:
[re: using “Find” in a web browser]
“No, I use Safari on a Mac. But I’ll try Firefox and see if that works.”
Safari has a perfectly good “Find” feature as well. It’s on the Edit menu: Edit->Find->Find…, with a command-F key command.
eemom
@FlipYrWhig:
I heard him on the Senate floor a short while ago on CSPAN. He’s pissed, all right.
hummbumm
iposted this on Brad Delong site but it equally relevant here:
Raising taxes during a recession is a bad idea. WE could argue in an ideal world that we raise taxes on the rich and focus fiscal stimulus on something that has a bigger multiplier, but that is not going to happen. So please, I am a huge fan of this site and of Paul Krugman, but can someone explain to me how raising taxes will not be contractionary in an environment with 9.8% unemployment. As this site and Krugman constantly say, the budget problems are long term and spend now to kick start the recovery. Thtat woudl be the ideal course but nowhere do economic models say raise taxes, that is fiscal austerity that Krugman and Delong rightly ridicule. Can anyone point to any economic model where a tax increase is stimulative to the economy… This is the calculus, keep taxes the same because raising them now with a demand deficit is nuts, get unemployment benefits etc.. which are highly effective source of stimulus. From a political angle for the next two years, the administration can say whenever republicans hark on the deficit, oh well it would be lower if you guys did not insist on maintaining the upper income bracket. Otherwise, as we know unemployment will still be elevated and republicans will insist that but for the tax hike we would be at 6% unemployment and most of the country would believe them. Heck they believe that the stimulus failed altogether and that Obama raised taxes these past two years.
FlipYrWhig
@eemom: Do you have any better understand of why people decided these were going to be the Days of Rage than I do? Still the wage freeze announcement? From Monday? Something happened with the convergence of the wage freeze and the “Slurpee” meeting that drove everyone around the bend. I’m still trying to sort out why it blew up in the specific way it did.
cckids
@WyldPirate: Hey, I still have that bumper sticker on my van. (My version says “If you’re not completely appalled, you’re not paying attention”). I actually got admonished by a fellow DFH at the gas station for it . . . “I hope you know that sticker is 8 years old”. . . ya, and it is surrounded by the “Obama 08” one & the “Bush & Sons Inc, formerly known as the United States of America” one & the “Republicans for Voldemort” sticker.
Really, dude, I’m not a Republican. And if you don’t think there is still plenty to be appalled about, you truly are not paying attention.
editing for clarity . . . thats what I replied to the DFH fellow, not to anyone here.
Omnes Omnibus
@geg6: You sound as though you have given up. Perhaps a weekend like JC is taking might help. If decent people give up, the assholes win by default.
themann1086
@Hal: Not reading the Rec List on Daily Kos are you?
You Don't Say
@eemom: I think DADT should be repealed for good reason, but I know where you’re coming from. The way you feel about DADT is how I feel about the wage freeze. And TSA gropegate.
Tax Analyst
@Emerald: @Emerald:
You could try hitting “Ctrl F” and then do a “Find” on your site name. That should work if the commenter used the “Reply” function. (Although this might possibly not work on all Browser programs)
FormerSwingVoter
Hmmm…
I’ve been reading the modified debt commission plan from today, and I’ve got a confession to make.
I… don’t think it’s terrible.
I mean, it’s got increased Social Security for low-wage retirees and older retirees who’ve likely outlived their savings, it applies the Social Security payroll tax to more high earners, and it taxes dividends and capital gains as standard income (which will, incidentally, close the carried-interest loophole). These all seem like good things to me.
It’s likely not worth passing the whole thing, but it’s not the festering pile of evil that I was expecting.
cckids
@Emerald:
tamied
@Emerald: Oh that’s way too reasonable! I want blood!
evinfuilt
@Cat:
I’m all for that, we need wowarmory integration into Balloon Juice. Then I can use my in-game titles here.
Just none of the gear score stuff, that’s annoying.
Christin
@Emerald:
Agreed times ten and a half. If DK had a engine like this, and a commenting system like this? It would fall down a hundred thousands notches in Alexa’s ranking. It’s already fallen out of the Top 4000 because it’s just tired and old, but that drove it. The reason threads take off and diairies take off iis because it’s incredibly easy and simple and almost beautiful in its’ easy to have a flowing conversation or multiple conversations. You can see your own commments all lined up neatly and who replied and it’s the ease of following…Okay enough. You guys all know this. But I think that’s why they draw in people. Not what they used to but still.
On the down side I think that’s what makes the place bonkers and horrific to stay with. There is core group of users on the site that has been there for years that do not log out ever and post thousands of comments a week. This leads to the most annoying and insane screaming matches I’ve ever come across on the nets. It’s gotten aboslutely out of control and like Emerald, my time there is up and no longer participate or read.
So Balloon juice is odd to me in a way. It wants to be blog with comments and conversation, but it’s just so cumbersome and awkward and time consuming to try to follow anythinng there. Sorry but no matter what the operating system, it’s cumbersome and hard to follow any type of conversation. If I comment in five front page postings, it takes forever to find all my comments to see if anyone responded. Which is why I can barely post in one.
Andrew Sullivan is a blog that does not allow comments. I think it’s because he does not want to sully his site with the insanity going on over at DK lately. It’s like a PUMA convention whose hate has blowed up. Just this huge seething den of horror and misery is how I picture it. I could be wrong though, I usually am.
So if BJ wants comments, I’m just surprised it uses this format. If BJ went to the engine like DK had, the blog would rise to the top 1000. I firmly believe that. DK has lost a huge amount of people who want to talk but it’s not easy here.
Anyway, all this to say, I agree with everything Emererd wrote.
catclub
@hummbumm:
I read somewhere about higher marginal rates on the very rich: If you have a profitable business and marginal rates go up, it makes it relatively cheaper to hire new employees or bring on other expenses if they will be profitable. Thus, these rates could be stimulative.
Likewise, very high marginal rates encourage the very rich to add business expenses – like hiring employees – as much as hiding income from the feds. – Thus part of the reason for the boom in the 1950’s.
ALL the evidence is that ten years of low tax rates did not produce a boom in the economy or jobs. Why continue to believe it?
As for taxes on the non-super rich – do good things with the additional money brought in. Even regressive taxes can go to government programs that are highly progressive in effect. (Dream on.)
burnspbesq
@Emerald:
I don’t think that’s a fair characterization of what Krugman actually wrote at the time.
The stimulus was too small, and it had too much of the wrong stuff in it. That’s beyond dispute.
It may be that it was the best Obama could have gotten given the political conditions at the time. But what I understand Krugman to have said was that Obama didn’t try hard enough to get a bigger one, or one with more high-multiplier components. You can disagree with that, but it’s not an indefensible position.
Christin
This is the huge downfall, danger and cancer of the nets and blogs. It’s too easy to feel like the above. You start to think this is how everyone talks, feels and sounds. That this is it. In the past year, I when I would log into DK, I would become depressed, cynical, felt hopeless, angry, lost. I would argue with people all the time. But this horrific sad heavy feeling of doom and gloom and just overall misery. Ninety percent of the people posting were stating “it’s all over, O is over, he’s doomed, we are doomed, it suckss, I hate life, I hate everything. ” And I would log off fuming at how much it was all so horrible.
Then without an hour of being in the real world with real humans and real sunlight and real family and friends and all that. I would find my feelings of hope and normacy. And felt like I needed a lot hot shower to wash off some of the dirt.
And I realized it’s the equiv. of being a room and having five hundred people crammed in there fighting, screaming, yelling…pessimists who would find horror in the bith of butterfuly posting things that would make my mama cry. They were all jammed into my dining room at once.
You do need a break.
And you are definititely reading DK I think.
Bad vibes.
Your posts are starting to sound like this woman on there who…well. Let’s just say she’s one of the ones who could misery and hate in the eyes of a rescued shelter kitteh.
Get some air.
Sorry if I’m wrong about you reading.
catclub
@FormerSwingVoter:
I wll confess that I have NOT been reading the cat food commission’s ‘report’.
But I will ask: Does it base its changes relative to present law
i.e. at the end of 2010 tax rates return to their levels before 2001? Because my understanding from the deficit solver calculator (at NYT?) was that letting those expire, as is present law, would go a looooooooooong way to fixing this impossible problem. Just curious.
Omnes Omnibus
I like the anarchy of the comment threads. I am not a fan of nested comments or registration or recommendations. Just fix the standard stupidities about which everyone complains and that should do it
suzanne
@WereBear:
I am beyond thrilled to be one of the 19.
When I was in college (art major), I worked in a picture framing store. People used to bring those pieces of crap in for custom framing all the time. Often, they’d blow well over $500 to conserve and frame those damn things. It brought me great joy to suck as much money as possible from those people. I’d occasionally tell them that, in 20 years, their prints weren’t going to be worth a damn thing. LMAO.
One time, a Kinkade print accidentally got cut in half in the frame shop. It made me happy.
schrodinger's cat
I have been reading the history of the Great Depression for some research that I am doing. Unfortunately, Obama seems to be acting like Hoover instead of Roosevelt. Tinkering at the margins but avoiding doing anything bold.
Somebody please give Obama a copy of Keynes’s General Theory to read.
ruemara
@JMC in the ATL:
Garrosh. Named after the new fuckhead in charge.
Sentient Puddle
@ruemara: To be fair, from my understanding, the Alliance has a pretty big fuckhead in charge too.
Crazy Kale Lady
@suzanne:
Back in the mid 90’s I was the director of marketing for a very popular, “closely held” group of TK galleries on the CA coast, let’s just say. After two years of up close witnessing of how this alcoholic narcissist really thought and acted when not in front of his adoring collectors and observing the small man behind the curtain who pulled so many strings and manipulated the masses with his “faith” and “love”… my ongoing fantasy was to pen my first book: Thomas Kinkade: The Dark Side of the Painter of Light.
Alas, the inevitability of karmic payback always made me think twice about that idea. Plus, I’m really bitchy and petty at times but I do value trust, discretion and integrity more than vengeance. We all eventually get what we deserve, and while it took longer for his shit to come back around than I expected it would, I must admit to a small amount of satisfaction last summer when I stumbled upon This Week in Crazy: Thomas Kinkade.
J.W. Hamner
I think I’m probably the only one, but I miss the old goblin sound bites…. I haven’t heard “I got what YOU need” in ages… though I’ve heard some other old ones.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Crashman:
I like to pretend I am being mobbed by teabaggers. Toss a bile jar into an area that’s on fire and watch the
teabaggerszombies run right into it. Toss a bile jar off the top of a building and watch it rainteabaggerszombies. What’s really fun is to turn cheats on, lower the gravity to moon level, hand out the CounterStrike weapons and start blasting from on high.A bud of ours created a SuperTank that can climb just about anywhere you are and moves around like it’s on meth. That can make the game a bit intense at times…lol!
Nick
@Emerald:
This is from Lincoln’s first inaugural address
Sellout!
Nick
@Emerald:
I think what he meant was “we don’t know if it was possible because he didn’t propose one”
I personally don’t think it was possible at all, because in order for it to be possible, Republicans would have to either A.) care about the future of the country or B.) suffer consequences for obstruction.
Neither is the case, therefore the Democrats have no trump card.
But some progressives need to believe it was possible, if anything I guess to not lose all hope in their country and their agenda. I’ve come to respect that.
Yutsano
Your Klingon sucks dude.
mbss
@chopper:
well, “manic progressive” is a frustrating mess.
no, not jimi. built to spill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBMFHqHpEhs