[I wrote the below post one year ago. I recently found out that Blue Shield, my healthcare provider, dropped my medical group (Cedars Sinai) from its network. I’m not sure why, but I imagine it has something to do with Cedars Sinai being far more expensive than the other medical groups from which I’m supposed to choose.) I’m pissed off about it, needless to say. It means another round of jackassery as I attempt to find a doctor who knows what the hell s/he is doing and who understands my particular condition. Since it’s a slow news day, I figured why not rehash old nightmares with my new Balloon(bagger) friends?]***
Today, I had what some might describe as a traumatic health care experience. I like to describe it as “fucking ridiculous.”
I’ve got this little bastard of a tumor (pituitary adenoma) in my head. Y’all all probably know that by now. You’re probably all like “yeah, pituitary tumor, blah blah blah. Just shut up about it already.” And that’s when I’ll be like, “No, YOU FIRST!” And then you’ll look at me in a confused manner because let’s face it, what I just said doesn’t make any fucking sense.
But let’s carry on anyway, shall we?
I’ve been wrangling with my insurance company for a couple weeks now, trying to get them to find me a damn endocrinologist who can give me some damn information about my damn tumor.
I like to refer to my tumor as “Tumer Willis” because 1) I’m AWESOME; 2) I just thought of it; and 3) I can avoid making another Kindergarten Cop joke.
For some stupid reason, as of last week, my Blue Shield-assigned medical group had only one endocrinologist in-network. So I got a referral to see the lone endocrinologist, Dr. X. Well turns out that Dr. X is not a pituitary specialist. He’s a diabetes specialist. Which I exactly don’t have.
So, I manage to get an emergency appointment with a top notch endocrinologist at Cedars-Sinai (also known as the place where Britney went after she lost her shit.) After much wrangling with Blue Shield (I wrangled and my primary care physician wrangled and even her nurse wrangled), I got nowhere. But suddenly (of course) they magically found another endocrinologist in-network: The mysterious Dr. Suk. So I get a referral for Dr. Suk.
Things didn’t bode well when I called Dr. Suk to make an appointment and was informed that I could “stop by” between 2 and 6 in the afternoon.
Er… stop by? Who the fuck just “stops by” to see an endocrinologist? OK, fine, hypochondriacs…maybe. But who else? Answer? No one. That’s who.
So I stopped by Dr. Suk’s “office.” I say “office” because her “office” was in a partially abandoned apartment complex, the entrance to which had a broken heavy link chain. You might think I’m kidding —
— but you’d be wrong.
On the placard next to her apartment door office entrance, it said “Dr. Suk: Internal Medicine/Endocrinology.” (Based upon the clientele I saw loitering around the building, I imagine that, after hours, she probably switched the “Endocrinology” sign for a sign that said “Waxing and Massage-Walk-ins accepted.”)
Begrudgingly, I stepped inside the office…and immediately regretted it.
The receptionist clearly had no idea what was going on which I found interesting considering she had no appointment book to manage. Just a sign up sheet. Later, when I saw her begin taking people’s blood pressure, and doing actual, you know, doctory stuff, I realized to my horror that she was also the nurse.
The “nurseptionist” shoved some forms in my face, rifled through a stack of faxes to look for my bloodwork which my primary care physician had faxed over days ago, then rifled around some more searching for the referral authorization form from Blue Shield. Finally, satisfied that she was a moron, she handed me some forms to fill out.
Each of the forms appeared to have been run off of one of those ditto machines that anyone born before 1984 might remember. And for those of you born after 1984, you probably don’t remember archaic ditto machines or the ever present genius that is Purple Rain (soundtrack, not movie), and I therefore no longer want to talk to you.
Just kidding, younglings. You know Angry Old Black Lady has nothing but love for ya. Now get off my lawn.
One of the forms asked me to agree to a contract which would be outright unenforceable in court. Entitled “CONSENT TO TREATMENT,” it was a form that said, basically, “I agree to let you treat me, but if you fuck it up, then we’ll just say ‘my bad’ and you can’t sue us.” So I pointed out to the receptionist that the form contained unenforceable language and language to which I would not agree in any event.
As soon as I said that, she looked at me like “Whaaaa!?” So I just stared back at her and said “I’m not signing this. This contract waives my right to sue you for malpractice.” In my head I was thinking, “There’s no way I’m letting these assholes touch me anyway.”
At this point, I began to feel a bit devilish. I grabbed all the forms and sat down in the waiting room. Then, I called my friend Mme. Marbles, Esq. and told her that the doctor was trying to make me sign a form that waives all of my rights to sue for malpractice. Mme. Marbles said something like “Well, that’s weird. You can’t waive your rights to sue for intentional conduct, and you certainly have a right to be treated non-negligently!” I was all, “I KNOW, RIGHT??”
In fact, I did know this, but because the nurseptionist had just casually handed me the form, and the form was so clearly mislabeled in large letters “CONSENT TO TREATMENT,” as opposed to “CONSENT TO LET US POTENTIALLY KILL YOU,” I suppose I was taken aback by the brazen illegality of it all. As the waiting room started to fill with Spanish speakers, however, it began to make a little more sense.
I got off the phone with Mme. Marbles and started texting her back and forth furiously about where I was and what in the sam hell was going on. Her last text message to me? Classic: “DUDE. Where ARE you?”
“The lesser known eleventeenth layer of hell, presumably,” I thought.
At that point, the nurse started to look at me funny. Wanting to see exactly how weird this experience was going to get, I signed the “CONSENT TO TREATMENT” form, after striking out the “hold harmless” clause, and moved on to the second form.
The second form was a mandatory arbitration contract which essentially waived my rights to even sue the medical office in the first place, and purported to force me to arbitrate any malpractice issue that might arise. When I asked the nurseptionist about that, she said to me “It’s for your protection,” to which I replied, “I’m an attorney, and I’m not signing this,” to which she replied, “Get the fuck out!” — meaning it literally and colloquially.
Ok, ok, she didn’t say that, but by the look on her face, I could tell that she hadn’t had such difficulty with a patient before, and was likely thinking it. I mean, she was dealing with a lawyer who was calling a lawyer. “She’s got a lawyer on speed dial? Que?”
Yes, I do. I have several. Half my friends are lawyers. And besides, who mind-thinks “speed dial” anymore? It’s “Favorites,” and it’s on my supersweet iPhone, bitches.
Here’s what she actually said to me: “Well, the doctor won’t treat you if you don’t sign this.” At this point she’s getting really suspicious because I had already whipped out my iPhone and started taking pictures of the forms so I could document the crazy.
I grabbed the pen from her hand, signed my name, and next to my name wrote in block letters: “ADHESION K.” For you non-lawyer types, “K” is shorthand for “contract’ and “adhesion contract” is shorthand for “bullshit boilerplate nonsense that is offered on a ‘take it or leave it’ basis and which is unenforceable in court, but which some idiot lawyer drafted to confuse all the poor Spanish speakers who wouldn’t sue anyway.” My rage cup ranneth over.
Without getting all legalistic on you, let me just say that mandatory arbitration clauses are bullshit, and if you want to read more about how HMOs have forced such clauses upon consumers in an effort to drag out the provision of healthcare, read this L.A. Times article.
After the bullshit form shenanigans. I sat and waited; tumor pulsing. The nurseptionist called me into the guest bedroom one of the doctor’s offices and asked me to get on the scale. After I shed my jacket and my scarf (easily two pounds each) I stepped on to the scale. And I’m not kidding you when I say that the next words out of her mouth were:
“How much do you weigh?”
I looked at her for minute, yelling in my head “ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?” But I didn’t say that.
Instead I said, “I don’t know, why don’t you tell me.” She sort of shrugged, played around on the scale doodads and said “128. Is that how much you weigh?” And my mind-head starts yelling again: “OH MY GOOD LORD YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON!” Instead I said, “I guess so.”
After the scale shenanigans, there was an utterly absurd “How tall are you” line of questioning followed by incompetent fumbling around my arm area in an attempt to take my blood pressure. (Which, was, I’m sure, eleventy over die in a fire.)
And then, the coup de grace: I was escorted into another bedroom office to actually talk to the doctor who, as far as I could tell, had no diplomas or certificates on the wall which, considering she likely graduated from Witchdoctor State, was unsurprising. As I approached the second bedroom office, I noticed that a sign was taped to the door:
Double-ewe.Tee.Eff. Isolation room? Really? I have a tumor, not leprosy! Was I Patient Zero now?
After that, I was fed up. I’d documented enough of the crazy and I just wanted to get the hell out of there so I could call up my medical group and/or insurance company and/or anyone who would listen so I could yell at someone.
I spoke with the doctor for about 5 minutes. I told her I needed a pituitary specialist and that my insurance wouldn’t authorize the one at Cedars-Sinai. Somehow whenever you mention Cedars-Sinai to non-Cedars Sinai doctors, they either get bristly (as Dr. Suk did) or praise their skill in a way that immediately raises a red flag (as my previous primary care physician at Kaiser did.)
This was going swimmingly.
After she refused to look at the MRI films of my brain–the same brain wherein lies the tumor–and then refused to authorize me to have another MRI (which all doctors I’ve spoken to recently said I must have as soon as possible), I walked out after telling her I needed a pituitary specialist. What does bristly Dr. Suk say? “I’m a pituitary specialist too.” Me (in my mind-head): “Right, and I’m a Supreme Court justice.”
So there you have it. Blue Shield is trying to kill me. And believe me, they are going to get an earful about it on the daily until they authorize me to go get Britneycare at Cedars-Sinai like they damn well should’ve done in the first place. And if they don’t, then by the hand of Thor, they are going to die in a very hot…
***[I wrote this in January of last year and I’m pissed off that I’m back to square one. Best healthcare in the world my shiny black ass. I have employer provided healthcare. I spend money out-of-pocket for acupuncture (which treats the symptoms of my tumor). I don’t go to acupuncture for fun. I go because if I don’t go, I end up having to go on medical leave (which I did last January — for eight weeks.) I can afford to pay these costs. I can’t, however, afford to pay for an MRI every six months, and for the battery of tests that I’m required to get. I could find the money: deplete my saving, cash in my 401K, hit up the parents for some cash, but I’m in the highest tax bracket, FFS! And I’m not “rich” enough to pay for my own healthcare?! It’s fucking ridiculous. What the hell are poor people supposed to do?! The point is not to complain; my situation is rainbows and unicorns compared to other people’s situation. I’m not going to pretend it doesn’t suck for me — it does — but it is so much worse for other people. So while the Republicans are gearing up for Kulture Warz 2: Electric Boogaloo, there are people out there with real problems and real pre-existing conditions who need real help. I hate people today. I really hate them.]
[cross-posted here at Angry Black Lady Chronicles]
cmorenc
Why don’t you quit being so tactfully, wimpishly indirect and tell us how you REALLY feel, ABL? :=)
The bitter irony for the rest of us is that stories like yours are exactly what the GOP leaders and TeaTards predict will become the common course of things under “government-run health care” as a result of the HCR bill, whereas if we stay with the current private-insurance system, we’ll remain free to choose our own doctors and continue to have the “best health care in the world” available to us.
tBoy
Lis’sen, You got to get this looked at by a competent physician.
Book a flight to France. Walk into a GP’s office – get an exam ($30.00). Bring your MRIs, etc – tell the GP you need a pituitary specialist. Expect to wait two weeks or so.
Figure the initial exam with the endocrinologist will cost you about $200.00. Follow up visits about $100.00. Any lab work or diagnostic tests extra but reasonable.
Do not be surprised if you get a visit sooner than two weeks. When the French doctors find out that your other option is a trip back to the US meat grinder they will get you seen earlier.
Ask me how I know this …
Thanks for asking. I’m an RN. My wife is a French citizen. We have major medical insurance here in the US in case a bus runs us over. But for non-emergent care she flies to France and pays out of pocket.
Examples from November 200:
-1- GP/Internist $30.00
-2- Cardiologist – 1st Visit – $130.00
-3- Second visit cardiologist with cardiac stress test performed by the MD & interpreted by the MD in real time. – $100.00
tBoy
P.S. If you don’t already know a few French words simply trying goes a long way.
Soldier Boy
Sweet Jeebus on toast. I’m in the Army, and I’m very damn well happy with my Government-Run Tricare. This “Dr.” Suk seems one step off from being treated by the Simpson’s Dr. Nic Riviera…..
Angry Black Lady
The “consent to treatment” form was one of the most shocking things I’ve seen. I’ve never had to go to a clinic before and I was appalled that they were having non-English speaking people sign that clusterfuck of a form.
Silver
My wife had an ovarian cyst burst a couple of years ago. PCP says it needs to come out pronto. Every doctor on our Blue Cross list said they could see her in 2-4 months.
Thanks, assholes.
PCP picked up the phone, made some calls, and everything got sorted out. Best healthcare in the world.
Violet
Gawd, I so sympathize. It took something like four doctors and over two years for me to get a simple thyroid condition diagnosed. It totally sucks when you’ve got something more complicated.
Can you see the Cedars-Sinai doctors in an out-of-network situation? Is anything out-of-network covered for you? Could you perhaps negotiate with them for cheaper prices if you have to pay cash?
I’m so sorry. There is no reason whatsoever that health insurance should be a for-profit industry. It’s morally wrong.
Calouste
Well, same as you are supposed to do from the insurance company perspective. Die and not eat any further into their profit margin.
Pooh
The fact that Dr. CrankYanker Suk’s office is “in network” is possibly the most disconcerting thing about the whole affair.
Silver
@Angry Black Lady:
You better never go skiing. On the back of the lift ticket, you waive you right to sue if the the life attendant is Charlie Sheen on a bender who throws the lift into reverse on purpose to shatter both your legs and then anally rapes you while the management of the resort cheers him on and films it.
Keith G
You could be sitting for 6 hours in a county clinic with no lawyers on the voice dial of your Trac phone.
Nicole
It’s stories like this that make me want to throw things when right-wingers I know yammer about health-care rationing. We already have it, dumb fucks. It’s just be rationed by private industry. Clearly, they have no problem with private industry saying you can’t have things; just not the government.
Unless you’re a woman and need anything pertaining to your lady parts. Then they’re all in favor of the government saying you can’t have things.
Calouste
@Angry Black Lady:
You mean non-legalese speaking people?
dr. bloor
Don’t bother barking at your insurer. They’ve got their collective ass covered in so much lead that a righteously rage-driven, ultranukular radioactive lawsuit (much less angry phone calls) won’t even cause them to break a sweat. Start barking at your HR people. Explain your circumstances, tell them they’re paying for shit, and that you plan to share your experience with every coworker who you can track down.
Nicole
@Silver: Same thing if you go horseback riding. Because they consider skiing and horseback riding an “inherently risky activity,” correct? Though it looks like being treated Dr. Suks is, too.
General Stuck
Try having a rare chronic disease diagnosed that few doctors have ever seen, except maybe pictures in a med text book. And after eleventy billion doctors scratch their heads in bewilderment or guess at something that is totally wrong, finally, after fifteen nightmarish years, one of them raises their hand that they know what it is, and then you get some treatment relief, just close enough to the reaper, to smell it’s breath.
Ruckus
Welcome to my world. My world is the one of no health insurance, just hoping to make it the 3 1/2 years to Medicare before I die. And hoping that I don’t have/contract any life threatening conditions till then. Is this a great country or what?
Violet
@General Stuck:
Sounds like you finally got to see Dr. House. I wonder what insurance his hospital accepts?
Mary G
I am convinced that people who scream the most about Obamacare have never been sick, or are related to doctors who treat them for chickens.
When the drug Enbrel came out in the 90s, HealthNet denied me. And denied me. And denied me. Reason: too expensive and your doctor says you don’t have the usual form of rheumatoid arthritis, but some exotic variant that Enbrel is not approved for by the FDA, because only .00001 of the population gets it.
After I screamed like a stuck pig for weeks and threatened all kinds of legal action, because I had a whole sheaf of papers (copies of lab orders, etc.) upon which my rheumatologist had written my diagnosis as “RA” and the ICD-9 code 714.0 (guess what, rheumatoid arthritis) all over them.
Their solution: throw my rheumatologist out of the network. Then they had me make an appointment with some guy I had never heard of and who was not listed with the Arthritis Foundation, who can tell you who all the accredited board specialists are in your area.
I went to the place and it was the driveway between two apartment buildings that look exactly like the one you went to. Not even an apartment. Just a driveway.
I screamed some more and they gave me another address: different number, street, city. When I finally got there the doctor didn’t even take me into an examination room, but sat me down in his hideously disorganized and filthy office and FELL ASLEEP in his chair.
I never did get the Enbrel. I spent my own money to go to a guy near Cedars who luckily was running a clinical trial of another RA drug. I got three years worth for free, but how many people can do that?
It’s so frustrating. I couldn’t figure out why I was so broke and I looked at my current prescriptions and even though I have allegedly the best Medicare Part D plan, for three months’ worth of drugs, I paid 63 per cent of the cost between co-pays and premiums, and the company paid 47%.
Ugh. Next month the premium goes up too, from $63 to $91.
b_e
Could you have gotten a referral to someone more competent? If your primary care doc is covered under Blue Shield, then they should be able to refer you to someone they trust. And if if your PCP don’t know any pituitary specialists, then likely as not they would just ask you who you want to be referred to, and then write it up as a referral so that Blue Shield would cover it. It’s what I had to do in Wisconsin several years ago, it depends on what insurance you have. Also, seconding taking the issue up with HR, sometimes they can do things like retroactively put you on a different plan, which is how I eventually got my care.
Guster
You’re in the highest tax bracket?
Can I borrow some money?
Warren Terra
I feel bad commenting on this given your very real medical problems and the terrible behavior of your insurer and this ridiculous clinic they sent you to, but I’m totally in favor of your insurer not paying for your acupuncture treatment. I’m glad it happens to make you feel better, but acupuncture is sheerest nonsense and I while I’m happy to see my health insurance premiums or (in the single-payer system I’d greatly prefer) my tax dollars going to whatever genuine medical services will help you I won’t extend that to include practitioners of nonsense.
Loneoak
This drips with win juice and awesome sauce.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@Warren Terra: Do you feel the same about chiropractic?
stagemom
why would you switch your health ins and go to a closed system like kaiser and expect to just boomboomboom get whatever you needed w/in days? you think if you’d gone from kaiser to cedars that they would have just given you what you wanted over the phone???
it would be BAD medicine to do that.
as for the pharmacy, kaiser gets their meds cheaper b/c they buy in bulk. they have formularies. why is trying to hold costs down against the american pharm companies a bad idea?
you’re an entitled angry gal, that’s fer sure. a rich bitch.
get in line like the rest of us!
Gian
Insurance companies, home, life, automobile, and health are not in business to pay claims.
they’re in business to make money, and the best way to do that is collect premiums and avoid paying claims.
for health insurance if they can delay long enough the patient can die and then the life insurance people can look for a way to avoid paying that claim
Violet
A friend of mine tried to get a fairly expensive medical device that was covered under their insurance. The insurance denies it. So she appeals. The appeal was approved, so yay, she gets to get the medical device. Except, oops, the supplier of said device refuses to sell it unless she pays cash up front. Why? Because even though the insurer says they’ll pay, they have a history of NOT paying. So the provider has decided it needs to be cash up front or nothing.
General Stuck
@Violet:
Turned out to be a government run doctor from the soshulist VA. Dr. House, I love, but he doesn’t exist n the real world. The doctors I’ve seen are smart in some ways, but dumb as fenceposts in other ways that I needed them to be smart, or just didn’t care enough to try very hard for something not easy to diagnose. I think most were republicans, which is what is really wrong with our HC system, people who likely should have been bankers, rather than faux caring physicians. That’s what you get with a for profit run amuck model/
Crusty Dem
@tBoy:
Even the libertardians at Reason agree with tBoy about going to France for medical care.
Jager
I had a great PCP in Boston, went to him for years. After I got divorced and was hitting the strays pretty hard, I went in for a check up and I told him I thought I should get an AIDS test, you know, just in case. He said “sure I can give you the test, but I won’t do it, I never have and I never will”! “Why”? He said, “if I order the test, it goes in your records and the last thing you want is an AIDS test in your file”! “Why not”? My Doc continued, “Because the fucking insurance company will use it against you in the future”! “Yah, but if its negative, why would they use it against me”? “Because they are pricks and they would say you got a AIDS test because you practice risky behavior and that’s enough to either raise your premiums or drop your ass”! He handed me a card from the clinic run by the hospital doing AIDS testing anonymously, I passed. Dan was and is a great Doc!
Angry Black Lady
@Calouste: well that too, yes. but primarily, i mean Spanish-speaking people. I saw several patients being counseled in Spanish and told to sign a form they couldn’t understand before a doctor would see them.
Jeanne ringland
Jebus.
We just lost our Kaiser coverage. We had very good experiences with them but I know it’s not for everyone and I know that there are some stinker doctors in the system. We lost them because we moved out of their area, and now we have Anthem Blue Cross/Shield and I am gritting my teeth. Not only is it MORE EXPENSIVE, the pharmacy coverage is crap (we’re in Washington near Seattle) and stuff like those happy blue pills for my husband cost more than 3 times as much because they are not covered, consarn it. The doc we interviewed last week suggested we get them from Canada; he may be a keeperr.
We’re retired but still a little too young for Medicare. We can’t afford to get sick until we’re on it, and if one of us is discovered to have ANOTHER catastrophic condition* we will move back to Southern California in order to have Kaiser again, and they will have to take us back.
*Hepatits C treatment for me, sick as a dog for a year but cured, and the Orange County program at the time rocked. Super-fast-growing prostate cancer for him, successful surgery. Before that three babies born with them, a hysterectomy, various lady stuff, the last pregnancy was very scary but they took very good care of me; one of the specialists called in looked very, very old to me but I was 32 so he was probably only in his 70s. We left behind some excellent personal doctors, and one thing that I really liked was that they automatically got a second or third opinion when things got scary, without us asking for it. There were 5 specialists reading my tests during that scary pregnancy, to help me decide if it was safe to continue or if we needed to terminate.
All I can see Anthem doing is taking our money and waiting for us to die if we get sick, and I kind of think I won’t accomodate them.
Jeanne ringland
FYWP. My post is in moderation:
ABL, I know this isn’t funny but your writing about this outrage makes me laugh. You have a way with words.
We just lost our Kaiser coverage. We had very good experiences with them but I know it’s not for everyone and I know that there are some stinker doctors in the system and some kowtow to the beancounters, but not our docs. We lost Kaiser because we moved out of their area, and now we have Anthem Blue Cross/Shield and I am gritting my teeth. Not only is it MORE EXPENSIVE, the pharmacy coverage is crap (we’re in Washington near Seattle) and stuff like those happy blue pills for my husband cost more than 3 times as much because they are not covered, consarn it. The doc we interviewed last week suggested we get them from Canada; he may be a keeperr.
We’re retired but still a little too young for Medicare. We can’t afford to get sick until we’re on it, and if one of us is discovered to have ANOTHER catastrophic condition* we will move back to Southern California in order to have Kaiser again, and they will have to take us back.
*Hepatits C treatment for me, sick as a dog for a year but cured, and the Orange County program at the time rocked. Super-fast-growing prostate cancer for him, successful surgery. Before that three babies born with them, a hysterectomy, various lady stuff, the last pregnancy was very scary but they took very good care of me; one of the specialists called in looked very, very old to me but I was 32 so he was probably only in his 70s. We left behind some excellent personal doctors, and one thing that I really liked was that they automatically got a second or third opinion when things got scary, without us asking for it. There were 5 specialists reading my tests during that scary pregnancy, to help me decide if it was safe to continue or if we needed to terminate.
All I can see Anthem doing is taking our money and waiting for us to die if we get sick, and I kind of think I won’t accomodate them.
Emma
From experience: get on the phone with you HR people and show them the pictures and the documents. And very gently ask them if that’s what the company wants to be known for.
Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)
You could be waiting for months on an L.A. county referral list for treatment of diabetic retinopathy (a referral from a community health center cuz u have no insurance) and then go blind waiting for laser treatment because there are 600 uninsured people ahead of u on the line. True story. In the good old US of A. A completely treatable ailment if addressed early and the patient went blind just waiting. Drives me mad every time I think about it. Got me started using telemedicine to connect specialists with patients who use safety net clinics. That is what my Republican friends would like to continue.
BTW did anyone else think about the Suk doctor (Wellington Yueh) from Dune? When I saw that your “endocrinologist” was Dr. Suk, I thought “run, they done kidnapped his wife and he’ll make you pay for it.” Seriously, this sucks.
I used to have Anthem Blue Cross, but they priced themselves out of the market and my employer switched to a plan that doesn’t allow me to see my UCLA primary care doctor. Or any UCLA doctor. My new primary care physician’s office doubles as a chicken coop. On the bright side, there’s fresh eggs. On the other hand, the danger of avian flu. Sigh.
Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)
Whoops, last comment in moderation. I wonder what word tripped the filter.
Jeanne ringland
@Jager: I went to Planned Parenthood for my first HIV test in 1987, when Kaiser wanted me to come in for it and I knew no one who had been tested. Kaiser was concerned because I had hemorrhaged following surgery in 1984 and had gotten more than four pints of blood (I lost track after that).
The following year everyone I knew had been tested, and I’m talking upper-middle class, girl scout troop leaders, president of the PTA-types. Kaiser was funny about it, giving me the pamphlet to read on preventing STD’s and some sample condoms.
Jeanne ringland
@Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people): Me too. Big old post about how much I loved Kaiser (I’m serious) and am preparing to be mistreated by Anthem Blue Cross/Shield.
Angry Black Lady
@Warren Terra: i appreciate that some folks believe that acupuncture is nonsense. i was one of those people until a friend said i should try it.
without going into grave detail about the inner workings of my lady business, i’ll just say that it absolutely works.
Jeanne ringland
@Crusty Dem: My Cod, It’s Matt Welch! I know that guy. He posts stuff on my favorite baseball blog all the time; I wish he’d stick to baseball on that blog.
liberal
Huh? I thought everyone just learns about their medical problems using Google, and then just treats themself.
liberal
@Warren Terra:
Depends, doesn’t it? If the claim is that it can treat cancer or strep throat, then yes. But I thought it was proven to have some clinical efficacy for short-term pain relief in some situations.
Warren Terra
@Barb (formerly Gex):
It depends on what it’s for. In my limited understanding, chiropractic consists mainly of treatments that can be genuinely helpful for people with neuromusculoskeletal problems. I don’t see why those should come from a so-called “doctor of chiropractic” instead of a licensed massage therapist, but if there’s a good reason for them and they’re helpful I’m all for them.
That said, the origins of chiropractic are in pure nonsense. To the extent that it’s improved – and a scan of its Wikipedia entry suggests this extent is sorely limited – its by throwing out essentially everything in its past and starting over as massage therapy. I’m really not happy to see that most “doctors of chiropractic” still believe, with no evidence whatsoever, that all sorts of ailments are significantly influenced by the spinal column. I wouldn’t terribly mind seeing all recognition for the term “doctor of chiropractic” done away with.
snarkyspice
@Warren Terra:
And you know this how?
She’s the one who’s sick and it makes her feel better. How can you be so condescending and still look yourself in the mirror?
Jeanne ringland
@Crusty Dem: And then Mr Welch tries to use this superior soshulist system in France to argue for more Free Market blargety blarg back here. A bit of a disconnect, there.
Angry Black Lady
@stagemom:you know, i started to attempt to answer your questions in good faith, but i’m sure nothing i say will make a difference since i’m a “rich entitled bitch.” so why don’t you just go ahead and fuck off.
Warren Terra
@liberal:
Sure, acupuncture can work. But studies have shown that its working doesn’t depend on where the needles enter (or even on the practitioner knowing where they should enter according to standard practice and theories of acupuncture), and it doesn’t depend on whether the needles enter. It’s a very effective application of the placebo principle, and placebos are very powerful medicine.
Angry Black Lady
@Jeanne ringland: thanks! i write that way because it helps me deal with the WTF-edness of the situation. :)
Angry Black Lady
@Warren Terra: that’s simply not true. i’m telling you from personal experience as a person who went into it with a lot of skepticism. i don’t see my acupuncturist for pain management; i see her for hormone fluctuation management.
and if you’re going to say “studies have shown” and purport to be an authority on the subject, it’s a good idea to provide links.
ETA: edited to for snarkiness: i know there are studies. i’ve read the studies. there are also studies that are beginning to emerge that show acupuncture’s efficacy in certain areas, specifically, my areas. i’m not trying to have a debate about homeopathy or naturopathy nor am i annoyed that acupuncture isn’t covered. that’s not at all the point of my screed.
have a good night everyone.
Guster
@Warren Terra:
So it’s a very effective application of a very powerful medicine, and you don’t want insurance to cover it?
S. cerevisiae
@Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people): Yueh was the first one I thought of when I saw “Suk Doctor”. Remember the tooth!
Jager
@Jeanne ringland:
When I had my AIDS test done, the nurse asked me if I wanted to participate in a survey. I was bored and said “sure, why not”! It started pretty tame, vaginal sex with with partner, oral sex, etc, etc, a few minutes into the test the question started getting in things like anal sex with a known injectable drug user. After three or four minutes of “No’s” from me the nurse and I are smiling back and forth as the sex questions get more and more bizarre. When she asked if I had recently had group sex with multiple partners of both sexes of whom one or more were injectable drug users…I paused and said “yes, Thursday, April 21st, do you need to know if I was a pitcher or a catcher”? She fell off her chair!
RSA
Snake Oil Science, by biostatistician R. Barker Bausell, is a good primer on the subject. He reviews the literature and describes a number of meta analyses; he finds no serious clinical evidence that CAM (Complementary and Alternative Medicine) therapies are other than placebos.
The Dude Abides
Acupuncture absolutely works, but it depends on the practitioner. I tried three different acupuncturists for my tennis elbow in the 80s and 90s, and two of them were very effective. I also referred several tennis students to one of those three practitioners, and all reported significant pain relief. In addition, a former triathlete roommate of mine in the 1990s told me that the only relief he got from his migraines was via acupuncture.
Svensker
Two weeks before we moved to Canada my husband discovered a strange growth that his PCP and dermatologist thought could be a very rare and fast acting cancer. There were only two specialists in our area — one wasn’t on our health plan and said that he could not take cash because Blue Cross would punish him, so he refused to see us. The second specialist said he could see my husband…in 3 months. I’ll never forget that feeling of being on the phone and begging someone for my husband’s life (I thought) and being told there was nothing they could do. Our doctor was a good guy and found someone he knew who took my husband, but we ended up paying for emergency surgery in cash and out of pocket. (Thank the dear Lord the tumor was benign.)
I was never happier than when we got our Canadian health cards and told Blue Cross to FOAD.
Maude
I know this is trivial, but I have that type of mind. Who was sam hill?
I can’t talk about past medical excursions because I start ranting.
Svensker
Why I in moderation? Have I been bad? FYWP.
Oh, crap, spec.ia.list. D’oh. Really, really, FYWP.
Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
What really pisses me off is that a bunch of Spanish-speaking immigrants end up going here. These are about the most vulnerable people living in the U.S., and this is the kind of shithole they end up having to go to to sdee a “doctor”. How many of them would question whether they should sign some bullshit “contract”? How many of them feel like they can speak up when they suspect they’re getting screwed?
There’s a bigger problem here, which is that many of us natural-born citizens don’t really feel like we have any business speaking up when something smells bad but it’s somebody in a position of authority shoving it in our faces. Most of us just have an almost inborn tendency to not rock the boat when we’re dealing with somebody with perceived authority, no matter how flimsy or illegitimate the claim to authority might be.
Unscrupulous people know this and exploit it. They know that they can push people around and take advantage, and all too often, we wilt rather than stand up for ourselves. It can be lonely to stand up to authority. When some “nurse” shoves a bunch of bullshit papers at us and tells us we have to sign them, most of us will balk at the thought of doing anything other than what she says, even when, or maybe especially when, there are lots of other cowed people around. I don’t know what I would have done.
We need to teach our children that they don’t need to defer to some “authority figure” just because that person has a degree or a nice office or a uniform. We need to teach them–and ourselves–that standing up for ourselves in the face of abuse of authority is a right and a duty. We might just be standing up for our own rights today, but maybe the person we defy might think twice about abusing some other weaker person next time.
askew
@Warren Terra:
I always thought chiropractors were full of shit until I spent 6 months with the same headache. It was 24/7 without end. Worst experience of my life. Went to the Mayo clinic multiple times and they had no clue what it was. Went to a chiropractor for a month and got rid of the headache. After years of taking pills for migraines, I am pill free and headache free. I love my chiropractor.
trizzlor
@Calouste: I have to concur, I’m a pretty darn good English speaker but I would have signed that form without blinking. For some reason, I’m just very naive when it comes to doctors and give them full faith on procedural stuff. It’s the same way I feel about public water fountains – I know that I should know better, but I figure if it’s scum than someone would have reported it already.
Silver
You know why they call alternative medicine that works?
Medicine.
Older
Geez, Black Lady, no wonder you’re Angry. I would be too. But it doesn’t work that way where I live. Or rather, I mean, where I live it works, so it’s not that way. Would you be interested in moving to the Pacific Northwest?
Silver
Why…what. Same difference. Goddamn phone.
Older
I have had acupuncture that worked. My husband is a massage therapist who uses the same points on the body for what is called “acupressure”. And that works too.
This brings me to the subject of chiropractic medicine. You know, in some countries the word “chiropractor” means “massage therapist”. But that’s kind of off the subject. What I really wanted to say is that I and several of my family members have for years seen a chiropractic doctor who specializes in treating allergies and chemical sensitivities. She has some kind of equipment which even she calls “woo-woo” which detected what you’re sensitive to, and then she treats it with a kind of acupressure technique. She has never done anything to me that I could recognize as the usual chiropractic “adjustments” although that’s what she always puts on her invoices.
This woman is so good that people from our town were driving two hours to her city to get treated, until she decided that it was more efficient for her to open a second office in our town.
Jeanne ringland
@Jager: Made me lol!
Similar to what I said to my sister when she said “Where on Earth did you get Hepatitis C??!!!”
“Behind the bleachers when you and me wuz shootin’ up H. Oh, wait… ”
LOL! I was also Mrs PTA President/Girl Scout Troop Leader/Community Activist/School Board Agitator.
liberal
@Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Huh. And here I was, thinking that when the man in the lab coat tells me to turn up the voltage, I should respond dutifully and ask, “by how much?”
WyldPirate
And the fucking ACA did jack shit to really alleviate this sort of shit.
None of this shit will change until a stake is driven through the health insurance industry’s heart and the blackhearted money-grubbing bastards at the AMA who limit the number and distribution of physicians.
and guess what, Obama isn’t on the side of the little people here. He tossed some crumbs at poor folks, but what he and the last Congress has done will be absolutely ineffectual at cost control which is the real issue.
Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@liberal:
Yeah, I was thinking about that, too, when I wrote that.
WyldPirate
@Mary G:
This may be true in some instances (getting kicked off your plan, lifetime limits, etc, but I’ll bet it will get loopholed by the insurance maggots), but from what you described with your problems, nothing in the ACA will even address that.
Guess what? The ACA isn’t going to do shit about this either. Expect another increase next year.
rikyrah
ABL,
you sound like a good Sistafriend of mine. I thought things like this only happened to her. I feel you.
Angry Black Lady
Holy amazeballs, I just ran into Aasif Mandvi at Whole Foods.
Dr. Squid
@Silver: But in Canadadada you have to wait. Or something.
Warren Terra
When something like that happens – not that it’s ever happened to me – is it appropriate to bother them and tell them you think their work is great, or should you just leave them in peace?
JITC
This makes me unbelievably angry.
As usual, there are amazing doctors in this country. The problem is ACCESS to them.
And ABL HAS INSURANCE from a huge company and within (presumably) a large risk pool and it’s the “holy grail” of employer provided insurance.
Apparently, having a job and having insurance no longer qualifies a person to get actual medical care.
This is why I don’t just “disagree” with Republicans but I’ve moved deep into “hate.” They LIKE this system. They think it’s “the best” and requires no change.
If I wasn’t working to do something about this I’d go insane. But I work with http://www.healthcareforall.org in the LA area to change this. There is a real, do-able chance for California to get single payer. If there is only one insurer then all providers will be covered and this situation won’t happen. Ever.
The Raven
My sympathies.
Could you go to an out-of-network endocrinologist, and get them to refer you in-network providers for tests? Would your insurance cover that?
Angry Black Lady
@Warren Terra: i usually don’t bother, but i couldn’t help it in this instance since i practically ran right into him; i pointed at him and was all, “you!” like i knew him or something. ha.
http://twitpic.com/3xkyni
Violet
@Angry Black Lady:
Really? That’s cool!
@Warren Terra:
Check out this thorough review of multiple research studies on acupuncture. It was done jointly by two medical schools. Their review of the research, including double blind studies, showed that pain relief wasn’t just due to the placebo effect.
Link: http://www.umm.edu/news/releases/back_pa#in.htm. The post wouldn’t appear with the link (FYWP), so take out the # to access the link.
Violet
@Angry Black Lady:
OMG! So cute! You make an adorable couple.
@The Raven:
Yeah, this is the way to go. I just did this. My Endocrinologist is out of network, but I had to get an ultrasound done. He gave me the order and I found an imaging place covered by my insurance. He’s a great doctor for me and I don’t want to leave his care, so I’ll pay out-of-network fees for him. But I can do testing with in-network people, which keeps the costs down.
Kewalo
I was so pissed off when they passed that damn drug bill I refused to sign up. I buy all my meds from Canada and because of that I only spend about $100 a month. It would be triple that here.
It’s really easy, the doc faxes the prescription to the pharmacy and then I make arrangement for it to be sent to me. I take the same meds all the time so he sends in a prescription for a year and I call every 3 mo for my refills. I’ve only had a problem one time and I’ve been buying my meds from them for years and years. If anyone is on the same meds, you should check out the prices to see if they can help you out. I buy from Canadadrugs. And no, I don’t get anything when I recommend them. Only the satisfaction of trying to screw over the American drug companies.
Silver
@Dr. Squid:
Yeah, that’s bullshit. My father and I both had carpal tunnel surgery (cogential defect, tiny wrists) in the same 24 month period. He was in Alberta, I was in California with good HMO insurance. Start to finish, I was faster by one month.
The only difference was, his surgery was included in his tax rate, which was comparable to mine. I had to pay insurance and copays on top of my tax rate. You’d have to go full retard (sorry Trig) to figure out which system is better.
Interrobang
Violet: Your link is broken and acupuncture is nothing but elaborate placebo. This should start everyone off fairly well; be sure to check out the article titled “Acupuncture and history: The “ancient” therapy that’s been around for several decades, which talks about the origins of acupuncture in Mao’s “Barefoot Doctor” campaign. This article also talks about the UMaryland study linked upthread (I think), and apparently a lot of people here don’t get the notion of statistical significance, or false positives in research.
That said, placebos are really effective, and the more elaborate a placebo is, the better it works (even in animals). The reason that most doctors don’t prescribe them (and why insurance companies/single-payer plans like in Canada shouldn’t cover them) is because they’re generally held to involve deception and are therefore unethical.
Interrobang
*headdesk* Oh, yeah, Violet, the caption under the picture says “With the acupuncture needles in place, the back pain patient rests for several minutes. The wires are part of the electrical stimulation used in the treatment. Most patients say the needles are painless and they find the treatment very relaxing.”
So-called “electro-acupuncture” isn’t “traditional Chinese acupuncture,” whatever that means; it isn’t even acupuncture. It’s a stupid way of doing TENS, where they actually stick needles into you rather than just putting electrodes on your skin, and can’t legitimately be compared to any other form of non-electrified acupuncture. Which is still an incredibly elaborate placebo, and you’d be better off doing physiotherapy, which would at least get some extra exercise into your daily routine.
Patraicia Blaine
@Barb (formerly Gex): Chiropractic: If I need surgery, I go to a surgeon, if I get a ‘krick’ in my neck which is sending electric messages and is pretty well debilitating, I go to a chiropractor. Not for much else.
Arclite
I have thyroid cancer, and I have been to a half a dozen endocrinologists. They are ALL diabetes special*ists, b/c it’s 90% of their patients. Do they actually specialize in something else? Anyway, I feel your pain.
(UPDATE: Goddamn cia*lis. Forced my comment into moderation).
bob h
The only nice thing about turning 65 is that in Medicare you dispense with all this referral/in network rubbish.
Nathanael
Do what tBoy says. DO IT.
Your health is worth a few hundred dollars and a trip to France. And yes, this is a third world country, why do you ask?
tom p
as a union carpenter I can only say, “Thank God we are self insured.” Never a quibble when I need care and after 25 years of abuse on jobsites, I need more than a little.
tBoy
BTW – I mistyped – the prices were November 2010
Mako
@Maude:
Sam Hill built Stonehenge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maryhill_stonehenge_WWI_monument.jpg
He was confused about it’s meaning.
Admiral_Komack
Good luck.
“Just kidding, younglings. You know Angry Old Black Lady has nothing but love for ya.”
Holy Corny West, Batman!
What is your favorite app on your iPhone?
(Mine: Lose It!-weight loss app)
Moral Biguity
@Warren Terra: Search for “acupuncture fmri”. Acupuncture is demonstrably not just a placebo effect.
Acupuncture suffers from silly-sounding terminology, but in the end it is just a clinical diagnosis vehicle with a complex, holistic set of inputs and outputs. Can it fix everything? No, obviously not. But there are many things for which it is effective.
Similarly to ABL, I was a skeptic as well before I went in. I’m also very analytical, which counts against the placebo effect. As needles would go in I would observe my own reactions (such as sudden relaxation, etc.) then ask the practitioner what the point she was stimulating was for without telling her what I felt. The intended effect always matched my own observed reactions. Again, anecdotal, but there you go.
Sarah Loving
I’ve had endocrine problems myself, had an MRI looking for a pituitary tumor (high prolactin levels… yeah, UKNOWTHATRITE?)
Luckily, I discovered this within the awesome healthcare that you can get in Buenos Aires for a pittance of what you paid/are paying. The endocrine specialist I saw was Alberto Nagelberg. He’s got Grave’s disease, so he’s personally invested. If he’s not a specialist for teh pituitary, he’ll know someone awesome.
Srsly, might be worth a trip. Medical tourism is booming there and for a reason. The Argentines are smart as hell (married to one!)
metricpenny
First, I am certainly sorry to hear about your tumor and the shoddy way you have been treated by your health insurance company.
But gurl. I am a consultant. I am sitting in a client’s conference room laughing so hard I am crying. Thank goodness I’m waiting on them to provide me with the materials I need to begin work on the project. Otherwise, I’d be shown the door.
GFW
@Warren Terra: I’d like to second that, with additional comments. I have occasional back trouble, which manifests as pain and spasm. I know what the underlying problem is, have an MRI to prove it, and know how to minimize recurrence (go to the gym regularly to stay limber). But if I get really “locked up”, a chiropractor can definitely help. All that’s a long winded way to say that competent chiropractic is appropriate for acute musculoskeletal issues, even when they stem from a chronic cause. However, there’s a whole other branch of chiropractic thought that tries to scare people into getting treatments 2-3 times a week for long periods. It’s a total scam – one of them tried to sign me up and I saw the operation fairly close up. So, there are good guys and bad guys in chiropractic and I probably wind up “getting my back cracked” by a good guy once every couple of years.
As for whether it would make more sense for chiropractors to be an advanced form of massage therapist rather than their own thing … maybe, but I’d still want the chiropractor to have as much total training in “not making the problem worse”.