President Obama’s “unusually feisty” press conference yesterday (NYTimes has the full video) seems to be getting excellent reviews. The Washington Post praised his “combative new tone“; Dana Millbank added, “This was Obama as he ought to be… Populism, pugilism and American exceptionalism: From a stoic president, this was a refreshing blend..”
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Greg Sargent pointed out that “Obama mounted a surprisingly aggressive moral case for ending high end tax cuts, casting it as a test of our society’s priorities, and argued — crucially — that anyone who fails to support ending them is fundamentally unserious about the deficit.”
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Matthew Continetti, speaking for the Disloyal Opposition, whined that “President Obama spent most of his press conference belittling Republicans… he’s playing the same old game of coalition politics, desperately trying to divide the public by pitting Republicans and the rich against the rest of America.”
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And back among the sane people, Nancy Pelosi said “Bravo!.. The President has spoken out and there will be a clearer understanding of what the choices are for the American people. We join the President in what he has long called for: a balanced, bipartisan package that creates jobs, protects Medicare, and respects the retirement of our seniors and the education of our children.”
So… with such cheering words to launch us once more unto the breach, what’s on everybody’s agenda as the Great Independence Day Holiday Weekend-Plus looms upon us?
Carbon Dated
Independence Day weekend agenda: Going to see if Lysol can remove a tuna stain from the carpet.
And Hudson River fireworks-gawping from the roof.
Elizabelle
President Obama’s press conference Wednesday; Stephen Colbert appearing before the FEC later today to bring attention to the potentially nefarious impact of Super PACs.
C-Span is looking at a very good week.
alwhite
Where has that guy been the last three years? I wish he had been my President when we were fighting for health care reform & when we re-passed those goddamned tax cuts that are actually causing this crisis. I don’t mind losing once in a while as long as we lose in battle & not in capitulation. More of that guy, please.
stuckinred
Headed for Champaign-Urbana for the weekend. My bride has never been to my old stompin grounds so it should be interesting.
harlana
Nice ad, needs more scary music. Dems, please do not hesitate use FEAR as they have done for so many years. It works!
And, yeah, as far as Obama goes, more of this please, you crazy, angry, combative populist you!!
Valdivia
@ stuckinred
good luck, hope the trip goes well!
no plans since I still can’t really sit for more than half an hour a day, if I make it back to swimming next week I’ll count myself a lucky girl. But hey I am straight when I am walking now so there’s that :)
ETA GoObama!
stuckinred
Valdivia
Take your time. I don’t know if I’ve mentioned to you that I fractured T-6 in 1975? Spinal fusion, a year in a full body cast followed by months of physical therapy. It worked out for me but I realize everyone’s situation is different.
Danny
I’m looking forward to seeing how the Netroots will react to Obamas presser. I’ve long argued that the game that Obama and the democrats have been playing on the debt ceiling talks is the very same one that republicans played on PPACA: Appearing to negotiate in good faith while running out the clock to get leverage.
Now that the republicans went out of their way to show themselves to expose themselves as unreasonable on taxes, Obama sees an opportunity where he can use the proverbial Bully Pulpit as a tool to gain leverage, by hitting the republicans over the head with stupid positions like sticking up for subsidies on corporate jets.
If the netroots are serious and knows their shit they’ll recognize the opportunity to influence the debt negotiations, and today they’ll be all over the media carrying water for the presidents message.
Reading Sargent’s writeup of the presser was somewhat dis-spiriting though. He went for a meta-story on the presidents underlying strategy. He endorsed it, but tepidly. But if we’ve learned anything from movement conservatism it’s that numbers matter and surrogates chiming in, in unison, are crucial to get a message to resonate in the media. So now that the netroots got a bit of what they were asking for (but in a smarter way) I’ll expect them to step up and perform their job.
Of course, continuing to whine and bitch at the president will still be a safe shortcut to media coverage so we’ll have to wait and see what wins out: the wish to see progressive policy prevail or the ambition of individuals for their very own soapbox….
Valdivia
@stuckinred
No I had no idea. Glad to hear you got better. I am very good at following my PT guy’s instructions and have made peace with staying put for a couple of weeks. My problem is with an injured disc (which I keep re-injuring every couple of months apparently) so now that I am making sure I take care of that I think I will be good, even if it delays my training for the modified triathlon. Every day I have more mobility and less pain so it’s getting better.
homerhk
@alwhite. See, here’s what I don’t get. I’ve been following President Obama’s various speeches, press conferences, interviews etc for some time now and I didn’t think that last night was too much of a departure from previous excoriations of Republican intransigence. So, in answer to your question, he’s the same as he ever was. He’s been calling for closing tax loopholes for ever; he’s been calling out republicans forever (remember “pick up a mop”, “get out of the car and help it out of the ditch”?)
AND, I can’t help notice that whenever he (frequently) calls out republicans there is limitless commentary to the effect of “that’s the Obama I voted for”, until the next thing he does that slightly pisses you off and then suddenly he’s a different person. I think that says more about the commentators then it does about the President.
DecidedFenceSitter
Usual deal for the weekend – major party on the 2nd – 70-100 people in the in-laws backyard. This year they are even renting a bounce house for it. I’ll probably spend a fair bit of the time in front of the grill, my brother-in-law loves grilled food, and hates grilling.
Sunday will be playing an overly complicated board game for several hours.
Monday will be chilling and trying to convince my 10-week old that a bottle of breast milk is just as delicious as it is straight from the tap.
Anne Laurie
Carbon Dated: If the Lysol doesn’t work, see if you can find a box of Odormute at the local pet emporium. Kinda tedious to have to mix it up whenever you need a batch, but it’s the best I’ve found after 30 years’ experimenting with dog, cat, and ‘godsdamned if I know but whatever died there needs removal NOW’ problems…
Elizabelle
Paul Krugman’s got a brilliant blogpost headline up.
For What Doth It Profit A Woman If She Dine With Tom Friedman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/29/for-what-doth-it-profit-a-woman-if-she-dine-with-tom-friedman/
Southern Beale
Wow, Rep. Heath Shuler of N.C. is rumored to be in the running for University of TN athletic director …
I seem to recall Shuler was a Blue Dog conserva-Dem, right?
gene108
Plans for this weekend: Nothing! Wake up when I want to, go out when I want to and not have a damn thing hanging over my head.
It will be glorious!
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
its good to see obama fighting. i think it will take a big, big, sell off on the exchanges for wall st to send its message that its time to settle the debt ceiling. i’m gonna beat the rush and lay in some beer and other supplies today, then i will be sitting and waiting for my new lapper to get here.
Roberta in MN
@homerhk, thank you for your comment. You are so correct on how President Obama is, I listen to the pundits on the tube and it’s like they never hear or see the stuff that he has been working on or the people he has been having meetings with to get this economy and the people back to work. It just amazes me (and even here at BJ’s) what the people are projecting onto this President. Short memory span. I understand the problem people have with corporations, but, they also, have men and women working for them and drawing paychecks, so it has to be a give and take. Thanks for letting me comment.
HeartlandLiberal
@stuckinred
Enjoy your trip to Urbana-Champaign. I did four years of grad work there from 1969-1974, loved the school, loved the library. Not so sure I ever loved the flatness of the prairie, though.
Have been back through for brief stops when on the road driving to Canada to have breakfast with a friend who stayed there after grad school as a head librarian for one of the departments. The cities have grown and sprawled, what else is new.
All the trees which were just young striplings 35 years ago now make for a much more attractive and mature central campus, I will give it that.
I am in Bloomington, IN, and now that I am retired, I may just tag along with the Hoosiers basketball team this season when they go over to play the Illini in Urbana. That might be a lot of fun, mix a little nostalgia with a basketball game.
burnspbesq
Lots of reading to get caught up on.
Ed Kleinbard from USC Law (alma mater! Fight On!) has posted a paper on SSRN about the problem of “stateless income” that I suspect is going to be very influential in the ongoing debate about international tax reform.
Also, here is the written version of Koh’s testimony to SFRC yesterday.
http://foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Koh_Testimony.pdf
And some new vinyl to listen to. Liam Finn, Gomez, Pat Metheny.
BruceFromOhio
This weekend: burn stuff, drink heavily, with many toasts to Mr President, Ms Pelosi, and the freedom to burn stuff and drink heavily.
Also: Fuck you, Republican leadership and your criminal moneychangers, everywhere. The brilliant, unflinching glare of a nation is upon you.
bkny
and mark halperin in the first hour of morning joe said: ‘i thought he (obama) was a dick’ to the republicans…
he later had to apologize. lol
HeartlandLiberal
As for plans for this weekend? I plan to keep hobbling around on these (*&(*& crutches. The fiberglass cast on my left leg and ankle will supposedly come off the middle of next week, after The Fourth (TM). I will still have to wear a strap on brace for weeks, but am hoping to get the green light to put weigh on the leg for the first time in six weeks at that point.
Hint to the wise: Don’t get careless and break your ankle (fibula) clean through within the first three months of retirement. It puts one heck of a dent in your fun. Also, start NOT, whatever your age, to stay in good shape physically. If I had not been, I can only imagine how much more difficult getting around on these *))&(* crutches and doing the simplest tasks would be. To get up the stairs (house is three stories), I just get on my knees and crawl crab style up, a stair at a time, with the crutches clutched in my left hand. What fun.
Maybe I will feel daring, and decide to hobble in the twilight out the backyard and up the hill to the ridge of the golf course behind our house on The Fourth (TM). We can see the fireworks at the football stadium 2.5 miles away, as the proverbial crow flies, form the ridge.
Every one have a safe and happy July Fourth.
As for Obama’s presser, I plan to fax the White House later today with lavish press and a simple question: What took you so long, and do you really mean it, or will you cave to these criminals again? Just sayin’.
Phyllis
Birthday pool party for a five-year old on Saturday, some grilling, a stack of good books, and our terrific small-town fireworks show Monday evening to top it off.
Saving my pennies for a mid-month workation to Gatlinburg. Got a terrific rental car deal from USAA so plan to spend many miles on the Parkway.
stuckinred
Southern Beale
Shuler was a better quarterback than he is at being a democrat and he sucked at being a quarterback.
HeartlandLiberal
burnspbesq
Yeah, someone else who understands music and vinyl and analog sound. We still have thousands of vinyl LPs, accumulated over a lifetime. I still listen to them. Last year I bought a new turntable, a very nice Stanton, and a new extremely compact Denon CD / MP3 player with superb compact speakers. Pretty expensive for a unit so small, but the quality of sound is outstanding.
Also, what can I say: Pat Metheny. Which sort of says it all. I have been listening to new CD I just bought, “Metheny Mehldau Quartet”. Outstanding, fantastic jazz. Also, bought and will be listening to today, the soundtrack from movie “The Falcon and Snowman”. I discovered recently that Metheny did the soundtrack music, which I had not known.
For those of you who do not know Metheny’s music, go forth to YouTube and discover him and enrich your lives. End of story.
geg6
Yay for O and NancySMASH!
My weekend will be to do nothing but catch up on reading and some teevee I’ve missed on Saturday, a family pool party and cookout on Sunday, and the big 4th party in a local town, Midland, on Monday. I have been tasked with bringing the hotdogs to the family do, so all I have to do is pick up a few packages of Hebrew Nationals and some buns. Now that’s what I call a holiday!
Hillary Rettig
sitting home trying to finish my latest book, which is starting to feel like a ten months’ pregnancy. just want to get it out!
stuckinred
HeartlandLiberal
I started there in Sept 69, ten days between Vietnam and the U of I. Lived there until 84 but I’ll always be an Illini.
agrippa
It is not actually necessary to settle the debt ceiling issue. Simply ignore raising the debt ceiling and let the situation work out as it will.
Say to the GOP: “Do what you need to do. We will proceed.”
Ash Can
@ Southern Beale: Shuler was the little nebbish who tried to unseat Pelosi as House Dem leader last year. Maybe he’s become persona non grata and the U of TN job is his soft landing.
Jeffro
Alex Pareene is tearin’ it up over at Salon again – awesome:
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/06/29/nuke_aspen/index.html
“Davos-specific super virus”, LOL
OzoneR
This press conference will be forgotten about in three days and we’ll be hearing about how he’s a capitulator who doesn’t fight again.
lacp
I’ll be taking in a lot of fireworks, but not by choice – I live near the art museum here in Philly, which is one of the places where they set them off.
Carbon Dated
@Anne Laurie
The Lysol reference hearkens back to an ‘inside’ joke, as it were (see ABLs vajajay contributions from yesterday). In that context, your comment made me spurt coffee — and not through my nose or mouth.
Okay I’m a douche.
kay
I’ll buy The Conservative Assault on the Constitution (Erwin Chemerinsky) on your recommend in the comments, burns, so thanks for that. I’ll read it on vacation the next coupla days.
I know everyone else reads light and easy while on vacation, but I take the opposite approach. Because I’m not working I can stand reading something heavy and (perhaps) dark.
OzoneR
That guy has always been there, especially on tax cuts, it’s just with a country with the memory span of a potted plant, stuff like this is easily forgotten because it isn’t effective. No one will admit fighting isn’t effective.
And I’d believe you, except every loss would be spun by the left as capitulation.
Shalimar
I don’t know who Matthew Continetti is, but I’m guessing he probably doesn’t want people going through all his statements from the last 3 years looking for the multitude of examples where he belittles Obama and plays the same old game of coalition politics.
OzoneR
They won’t.
Anya
AlWhite @2 ~~ Here’s President Obama rallying Dems before the vote, when everyone thought all was lost. He fought for health care as passionately and he staked his presidency but because he has to deal with the Dem coalition, that includes, Ben Nelson and the other blue dogs and let’s not forget Lieberman. And by the way, this speech was not prepared.
OzoneR
but but but but, the public option
Danny
It could be slightly more effective – if netroots and other surrogates were more apt at taking the message and running with it. Sadly, they’re not. The only way they know to get traction is by infighting, so we won’t get the unified message – the traction that matters. Better institutions, better surrogates. It’s a long term venture but worth pursuing.
Right now I see the establishment has decided the time is right to bring out Bill Clinton to help with reframing. That’s exactly right. Good to see some people know what they’re doing.
Comrade Javamanphil
Hey, look, folks, it’s our “Liberal Lamestream Media”
(For the curious, it’s Mark Halperin of Time and formerly the Note calling the President a dick on Morning Joe…and yucks were had by all. Hahahahaha. As I said on the twitter machine, add a “limp” and it’s how I feel about Halperin.)
OzoneR
It goes something like this
1.) Obama speech/press conference
2.) That was awesome vs. just words
3.) flame wars
4.) message lost
5.) blame Obama
kay
I don’t know who he is either, but it’s utter nonsense. I love, love, love people who opine on politics but object to “politics” on moral grounds.
If Obama were a good man he’d stop playing politics. Because we all know the scolds are going to shame the other side into into compliance with this moral framework, right?
That always happens, with conservatives. They feel shame and remorse and back off if the President just takes the right approach. Has it ever happened? Even once? What is this magical rhetorical formula that causes conservatives to moderate their incessant demands?
Cat Lady
Jeffro – Pareene is a national treasure – Hack 30 was the most exquisite filleting of the Village idiots there ever was and ever will be, and yet like Juan Cole, has he ever been on my teevee? No. I hope someone is developing a human version of Stuxnet that would take the Hack 30 out one by one, which would start with Richard Cohen and Mark Halperin. Imagine the anticipation as it worked its way through to David Brooks – I’d be able to see DougJ’s woody from my house.
OzoneR
Also, if Obama used the bully pulpit, Mark Halperin wouldn’t have called him a dick on national television.
Linda Featheringill
Yesterday was new computer monitor day because the old one just died. No breath, no pulse, nothing. So Darling Daughter, my in-house IT person, and I went out and got a new monitor. She installed it and established the settings. I crawled off into a corner and felt sorry for myself because it is so frightening to be so utterly dependent on technology I don’t understand and really have no control over.
I felt better though, when I realized that the old monitor was about 15 years old. [Computer is not that old.]
Still, am I going to have to go through equipment changes every 15 years? Waahhhhh!
The new monitor is rather neat, though, big and bright and easy to read.
Anya
Danny @8 ~~
Some in the netroots are fond of their sense of persecution, so they will take this as another moment of President Obama throwing the base under the bus. For proof, I give you Digby:
F
Mary
Thank you bkny. I turned in just in time for the apology and knew if I came here someone would say what he had done to need to do so. That is why I love this site.
Danny
@OzoneR
Exactly. And those are symptoms of perverse incentives within the progressive movement. It’s made up of numerous petty warlords mostly interested in maintaining their own soapbox, rather than advancing a progressive platform.
arguingwithsignposts
Stay classy mark halperin … Dick. I hope this gets front paged and tweeted.
lamh34
From twitter if seems Joe scar is trying to blame a producer on halperin’s comment. He’s saying it was supposed to be an off camera comment. Whatever Joe, mika & Willie Geist sure yucked it up to the comment. This just confirms what we already know about Halperins hackery. It favors GOP.
Comrade Javamanphil
I see bkny beat me to it. Sorry I missed that on my quick skim of the comments.
kay
I think the forced laughter by the soul-dead ghouls on Morning Joe is harmful to ordinary people, and may ruin their day. I can be in a pretty good mood, but after ten minutes of that I’m deeply concerned.
HA HA HA. There’s no joy in it.
stuckinred
lamh34
Qhat are you watching? The fucking den mother was livid.
Danny
@Anya
That’s just pathetic. That’s wanting to be a hipster rather than a progressive. “My politics are so obscure that the establishment is sure to hate them”.
I shouldnt have to mention that in a society of majority rule it also amounts to choosing losing and marginalization as a lifestyle.
handsmile
Who says there’s no good news being reported? Here’s a story to inspire us all:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/jun/27/alien-encounters-twenty-years-russian-astronomer
And with that heads-up, there’s ample time to decide what to wear and what to bring as a planet-warming gift.
Also, in truly excellent news for fans of terrestrial life, asteroid 2011 MD just missed striking the Earth on Monday night, whizzing by at a distance of 7,500 miles. That’s only as far from where I sit in New York to Nairobi, Kenya, so I definitely felt a whisper of the cosmic breeze. An asteroid strike would certainly be Obama’s fault.
kay
Halperin made an enormous amount of money off Obama, with his horrible hack-book.
The Morning Joe cast and crew sold the book.
One would think they’d all be grateful, as they have no other marketable skills and are unemployable without creating a “conflict” or “controversy” around Obama, but they’re probably very worried their taxes will go up.
mr. whipple
I don’t want Digby. You can have her and her emo whining.
JPL
I’m not sure what I’m doing this weekend, but I do know that I plan on doing some yard work this morning before it gets to hot.
stuckinred, Have a wonderful time in your old stomping grounds.
stuckinred
JPL
thx, we even get to stay in a big ol’ hotel next to the airport tomorrow night!
Marc
Go over to Gin and Tacos (Ed is usually better than this); FireDogLake; or notice how the Obama-haters over at Eschaton are graciously ignoring things inconvenient to their preconceptions.
Nope, nothing will change for those on the true path of the left. We’ve gotta get things done ourselves.
Lawguy
He sure does talk real purddy. Always has. Plus of course there are the usual suspects who will act as though his real purddy words mean anything, and ignore his (and the rest of his party’s) real ugly actions.
Anya
@mr. whipple ~ I don’t want her either. That’s why I was gifting her to you.
Anya
My life sucks (at least today). I have to head to a meeting where I will have to give a recommendation that will impact someone’s employment.
General Stuck
I thought it was an incisive cut with Obama’s “Kids versus Corporate Jet owners”
Of course, that didn’t impress the true path to progressivism
Bunch of clowns.
Danny
@Lawguy/DFHLawyer
You and the Moar Bully Pulpit crowd are two different tribes, right? Just trying to sort you out…
burnspbesq
@Heartland Liberal:
If you like “Quartet,” dig more deeply into Brad Mehldau. You won’t regret it. His most recent recorded work, with Lee Konitz, Charlie Haden, and Paul Motian, is as good a place as any to start.
@Kay:
I guarantee you won’t enjoy Erwin’s book, but it’s time well spent.
General Stuck
Maybe this link will work for #67 above
alwhite
@homerhk Please point out some comments of that nature during the health care debate, or the run up to the Bush tax disaster votes. He appeared much more removed from those fights, not coming in until the process was well underway. There is still time to affect the outcome of this one.
Marc
Add Brad Delong to the critic parade. I can understand his frustration, at least; the lessons of the Great Depression seem completely lost to our current oligarchs. Obama did well within the deficit cutting framework, and Delong is critical of his accepting such a thing in the first place.
OzoneR
WRONG
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/07/AR2010090706847.html
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/09/07/obama_bush_tax_cuts
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/us/politics/08obama.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/09/us-obama-economy-idUSTRE67O4WF20100909
and here’s Democratic Senators breaking with Obama two days later on tax cuts
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2010/09/democratic-senators-v-obama-on-bush-tax-cuts.html
on health care on June 11, 2009, before any bill was even introduced
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/11/obama-administration-universal-healthcare-reform
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/health/policy/15obama.text.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/24/obama-health-care-reform-absolutely-passed-end-year/
He was very involved in the early onset of both, the only reason you don’t know about it was his words weren’t effective and the netroots refuse to admit nice speechs and bully pulputing doesn’t guarantee victory, so they just pretend it never happened.
arguingwithsignposts
@alwhite – maybe you missed the big meeting he had with all the legislators where they went around the room talking about healthcare? Check c- span
Danny
@alwhite
The one that ended up getting legislation that will bring Health Care Insurance to ~30 million that are currently uncovered, and pay for it by taxing the rich? The outcome speaks for itself. It’s the biggest new progressive entitlement since LBJ. Your implication is that the President could have bullied Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson et al and 60 senators in alles – many from rural red states – into supporting a worthwile, strong public option, using the proverbial pulpit.
I doubt that would have been possible, and apparently so did the president.
A.K.A the last major jobs legislation package passed by congress and the last that is going to pass before the 2012 elections? Right after we just lost 70 seats in the house and 7 seats in the senate?
It was a compromise, and a damn good one (extending long term unemployment benefits, etc), given the preceding electorial outcome. If you didn’t like that I sure hope you voted in the ’10 midterms.
Lawguy
@Danny. Why do you think he lost 70 seats in the house and 7 in the senate? It certainly couldn’t have been because of anything he did or didn’t do as president. Except as I have pointed out he sure does talk real purddy.
OzoneR
He didn’t lose 70 seats, the Democratic Party lost 70 seats, but if you want the answer to that, tens of millions of dollars in corporate money financing elections, a country freaked out about spending and wrongly being told its whats causing a jobs crisis and natural pendulum swing.
Good policy doesn’t always lead to votes. Even the netroots admit that. You can lose an election for doing good things.
Danny
@Lawguy
Let’s hear your theory. And is it a progressive one or is it something else?
General Stuck
I don’t believe democrats are very good at confrontational politics. The wingnuts are better at it, because when they are in power, they are much better at message droning and keeping all their lawmakers and pundits marching in lockstep.
With the a supreme leader like Bush, carnival barking out commands for the troops. This has worked for them, to a degree, and Bush passed a sizable part of his and wingers agenda. But much of that was due to 9-11 and the pol upheaval and emo state the country was in.
But this kind of political style is fraught with all sorts of risks and a high propensity for going way off the tracks, when bad ideas are fueling it. Elections 2006 and 08 are good examples of that.
Dems are better suited, imo, to interactive politics, and less top down command and control. With a president who sets the table for others on his side to conduct the political battles in the trenches. Top down, cult of personality type politics should be, and is for most dems, a very un natural state, that just doesn’t work well for dems, given our tendency to go our own way, and get all butthurt when someone is telling us what to do and think.
There is a balancing act for someone like Obama, to ride somewhere with one foot inside both the confrontational and interactive types of governing. And while Obama is certainly not perfect on maintaining that balance, with regards to getting a little too stoic and professorial, he has gotten better at it.
By not controlling every aspect of the national agenda, and letting the branches of government have their space to do what they do, with Obama and the focus that one person being head of one branch can bring to bear. To be successful, there needs to be consummate timing when to bring to bear the power and focus of the presidency.
Living through the Carter presidency, when I fist tried to be involved in politics, was a perfect example of a new dem president trying to take the full lead over his dem led congress, only to have vapor driven lib senators and congressfolks, treat him like dirt, and pretty much emasculate his presidency, for perceived stepping harshly on their turf.
There is little doubt in my mind, if Obama was to heed the calls of some libs and progs, to get all Bush/Rambo with congress, there would be hues and cries from every corner on how he is too heavy handed, inflexible, and authoritarian. Or some variation of these things.
I thought yesterday, Obama’s timing was near perfect and in the correct pitch to frame the issue the way he did at this particular point in time. He did the same when HCR was near death and got all the weine CC’s from both sides in a room together, and put the onus on them to do their jobs, so he could do his.
Timothy Trollenschlongen (formerly Tim, Interrupted)
@ Stuck #70
Hey Stuck, just curious: Why do you, being a well known BJ FDL-hater, regularly go over there and torture yourself?
I am frequently denounced here as a Firebagger, etc., yet I go to FDL once or twice a week and almost never get any deeper than their headlines.
Do you just enjoy the aggravation? Are you doing oppo research? Are you secretly jealous? What gives?
I look forward with bated breath to your cogent and non abusive response.
Timmeh
General Stuck
LOL, that’s a lot of early morn whining you got going there Timmy. But I will answer your question best I can.
I do what do, and write what I write, because I want to and for no other reason than that. There is no license required, nor apologies rendered. And it’s free.
Lassie still not come home?
burnspbesq
@ Tim:
Cogent and non-abusive responses are reserved for those who have earned them. Don’t hold your breath.
Danny
@Timmy
Speaking strictly for me, I used to hang out at FDL because – channeling Jon Stewart – FDL readers are consistently the most misinformed progressives. Consistently.
So I hung out there, tried to engage, tried to discuss policy on the merits; being a productive contributor to the community and all that. Then I unfortunately got accused of being a paid Department of Defense plant by Jane Hamsher and promptly banned. Ah well…
But seeing the number of FDLers who hang out at BJ (Lawguy apperently being one, judging from his blog), and from my recollection of the FDL community in general, I’d say there are far more FDLers hanging out at BJ, fighting the good fight, than BJers hanging out at FDL.
Marc
@75: The sneering doesn’t make you persuasive. You come across as a wingnut – I almost expect a teleprompter joke.
Timothy Trollenschlongen (formerly Tim, Interrupted)
Being a little emo and resentful today, burn? Maybe if you shift position and fart you’ll relieve some of that pressure in your head.
Timothy Trollenschlongen (formerly Tim, Interrupted)
ummm…in what way was my question a “whine?”
Bender
California: Will you PLEASE fall into the ocean faster?
Gov. Brown signed California’s new online retail tax. California Democrats had cluelessly claimed the tax would bring in $200 million in new tax revenue from internet sales referred by California affiliates, despite all historical evidence from other states which passed similar laws pushed by big-box retailers to remove online sellers’ competitive advantages.
Instead of submitting to collecting the tax, Amazon, Overstock, and other online retailers did just what California Republicans said they would do: They simply canceled their California-based affiliates, so there will be no new sales tax receipts, no incentive to shift retail business to local brick-and-mortar merchants, and more Californians out-of-work, making less money, or moving to other states.
Ken Rockwell, a La Jolla resident who writes a popular blog about cameras and photography, earns most of his income by being an affiliate. His blog links to retailers like Amazon and B&H Photo-Video, which has a large retail store in New York as well as a robust online sales operation. He’s still trying to understand the impact of the law, but assumes that he’ll no longer earn money from Amazon.
“This is not good for anybody, and it affects the companies who pay me,” said Rockwell, 49, who has blogged about photography full time for 10 years. “It seems like the government is messing with something that it really doesn’t understand. A lot of people make a few dollars here and there by being affiliates, and they really need the money.”
Many of about 25,000 affiliates in California, especially larger ones with dozens of employees, are likely to leave the state, said Rebecca Madigan, executive director of trade group Performance Marketing Assn.
Also, the State Board of Equalization reported $124 million in state income taxes paid by affiliates in 2009, so California can say goodbye to those taxes, too.
Expected: $200 million gain
Actual: $124 million loss
Democrats: Is there anything about an economy that they DO understand?
Admiral_Komack
I’ve been to weeseeyou.com:
“The way this is going, the President will be called a nigger on national television before the voting in the 2012 American Presidential election.”
“It won’t be said by a comedian.”
“It will be said on one of the pundit shows, BY one of the pundits.”
“BEFORE the 2012 American Presidential election.”
“I hope that I am wrong, but I believe it will happen.”
“Watch for it.”
Timothy Trollenschlongen (formerly Tim, Interrupted)
Serious question for the T Trollenschlongen haters in this Obama is Awesome thread:
Putting aside your loathing for me for just a moment, if you can, what do you think is the basis of society’s general tendency to mock the name “Tim” or “Timothy?”
Now, now, now…bear with me. I’m serious. And no, it’s not because of my political views here on BJ, you asses. Tell someone your name is Tim and sooner or later one gets “Timmy,” “Timmeh,” “Tiny Tim,” and other diminutives. Of course, it’s a cheap and easy shot for folks who have nothing of value to add to a discussion in which they disagree, but I’m talking about the diminution of the name and its derivatives in general.
Thoughts, please?
I realize I’m inviting more silly Obot abuse with this question, but lord knows I get that in most threads anyway. So try to stay on topic.
Thanks.
Lawguy
Went away for awhile. Every once in a while at this site and Hullabalo each paragraph will run out forever and not wrap around. So it makes reading anything more of a challenge than I am willing to experisnce.
However, are there really people who don’t think that it was Obama that was the most responsible for the loss of the senate and house seats? There is an old joke that conservatism can’t fail it can only be failed. I guess if you put Obama’s name in there ….
What could Obama have done? Not insisted that Lieberman be kept in his chairmanship. Doubled the amount of stimulus and had it consist of money paid out to shovel ready projects not have half of it consist of tax cuts. Not voted for TARP in the form that Bush proposed. Not bailed out the bankers at 100 cents on the dollar. Started some criminal investigations of those very baniers. Not hired the very people who drove us into this economic crisis as his economic brain (such as they are) trust.
Maybe he would not have been able to do all those things, but if he had been willing to lead in those areas as opposed to leading in his permanent wars for peace, then perhaps we might have a little less than 9.1% unemployment and not be heading for a second part of the recession right now.
What he gave those of us who aren’t wealthy was crumbs from the rich mans table, if that.
OzoneR
yes, me.
The Senate and Fox News are most to blame for the loss of Senate and House seats.
If anything, Obama might have helped from making it worse.
General Stuck
Why Timmy, EVERYTHING you post here is a whine, dressed in whatever pathology of the day has you in it’s grips.
I will say about the only time I visit FDL, is clicking them off Memerandum, like the title of an FDL post caught my eye with the sheer and undiluted bullshit analysis of Obama’s presser yesterday. I trust this limited involvement does not ruffle your delicate firebagger sensibilities, but in the end, I don’t really give a fuck if it does.
daveNYC
I’ll be recovering from a visit to the periodontist. I’m bitter.
Danny
@Timmy
We should ask Matt Stone and Trey Parker.
General Stuck
Absolutely he was most responsible for the wingers winning the 2010 election. If he hadn’t passed a massive reform of health care insurance in this country, that will regulate federally the HC insurance industry for the first time, then the wingnuts would not have had it to demagogue (lie about) before it was fully implemented.
Especially scaring seniors with stories about cutting medicare and death panels and such. Very difficult for dems to fight that with a GOP sympathetic press, and a law that people can’t yet experience in their personal lives, to judge what it will do.
Then there is the race baiting blackey black thingy, that was available to the wingers due to Obama’s race. So yes, absolutely it was Obama’s doing for losing the House. We can only wonder what would have happened if he had been white and incompetent, whereas, I am sure dems would have faired much better under those circumstances.
Lawguy
Well OzoneR I can’t argue with that. You might want to reread Mr. Hoffer’s little book again. Imagine youself the title character.
Danny
@Lawguy
And lost him to the obstructionist republican caucus, thereby failing to pass PPACA and DADT repeal.
Wouldnt have passed the senate. You think “shovel ready” is something you shit out of your ass on request? You think that the Obama administrations messaging isnt the only reason you’re using those very words?
And we’d have had a depression instead of a recession. Too bad.
This one is hard to judge, there was some good discussion here with reasonable arguments on both sides.
He didn’t. He hired a mixed team. Deregulation was dogma for 30 years, it would have been hard to get qualified people that had never been tainted by faulty policy or Wall St.
Unfair. He passed the biggest stimulus in modern history, he passed the first reregulation of a major industry in modern history. He managed the wars he inherited and are now in the process of winding them down. You’re pretending that he’s done nothing rather than him not having delivered everything on your wishlist – as is the case in the real world.
If he had followed all the suggestions you made here I’d say it’s likely we’d have double digit unemployment (no TARP, no Auto bailout, no stimulus since it didnt get trough congress).
Lawguy
@General Stuck> As opposed to being black and incompetant?
Davis X. Machina
But are you clinging to your guns and your religion?
Chris
Well, it goes back to what people here’ve said about how Republicans want to rule, and Democrats want to govern.
The Republican strategy’s to create a 51% majority and set it at the throats of the other 49% of the people. The wartime mentality guarantees disciplined voters and high turnout, and a public that’s too busy fighting itself to notice that your bosses are robbing it blind. The Democratic strategy is to govern by consensus and try to do right by everyone, or at least as many people as possible, which is difficult when half the country’s determined not to get along with the other half, or with you.
Hence why Republican-dominated America tends to be an intensely partisan, polarized and divided, no matter how far to the right Democrats move – because they need an enemy in order to rule. And hence why Democratic dominance has only happened when the country was broadly united in its goals.
General Stuck
Lame firebagger, very lame. And of course must be why a record number of dems approve of his job performance and competency, and even more self described liberal dems approve as well.
Why do you make a fool of yourself, writing drivel on the internet?
Lawguy
I do find it fascinating the the explanations as to why he didn’t do all he could are that: “Gee, if he had really tried, well he just couldn’t have accomplished it and therefore we would be in worse shape right now.”
Thought experiment: Imagine Obama and the democratic leadership had tried what I suggested and been blocked at every turn (as you suggest) by republican obstructionists. Then imagine how the mid-terms could have played out with an agressive democratic party pointing this out to the voters.
As far as the economic adivsers he “had” to use. There is a Noble prize winner writing at the New York Times who wasn’t “tainted.” Not hard to find others out there either, if one chose not to go back to that poisoned well of Wall Street and the Fed.
Mnemosyne
@ Bender
Yep, nothing says “disinterested group” like touting the Cato Institute. Great catch there, Bender.
So how’s the PMA’s lawsuit claiming that Illinois is violating the Constitution by collecting sales tax going?
Mnemosyne
Uh, they did. The voters decided Democrats were whiners who were blaming the Republicans for their incompetence.
Losing big doesn’t make you look more competent, and losing really big doesn’t improve the picture. Why are liberals so convinced that all we have to do is lose enough battles and then we’ll totally win?
Danny
@Lawguy
Well you suggested not passing TARP. Serious observers agree there was a real potential for the Great Depression Pt2 around the time TARP was passed. You seem to be arguing that that would have been acceptable because you think that would have meant a good midterm election in 2010. Is that correct?
Furthermore, the Stimulus. It was passed in the spring of 2009. We were hemoraging ~800k jobs/a month at that time. By fall we had positive job growth.
For the sake of argument, let’s assume that neither TARP nor the stimulus gets passed. Let’s suppose that non-partisan, mainstream economists are right and we get the Great Depression Pt 2. 15% unemployment is not inconceivable, after all we had worse in the first great depression. That’s all fine and dandy for you, because you believe that would mean democrats win the midterms 2010. Remember, no stimulus at all gets passed between spring 2009 and november 2010. What we get is in fact Hooveresque laisez-faire policy for two freaking years. And you’re fine with that, because that would stick it to the republicans? Is this Hamsher approved strategeresizing?
What makes you think Krugman wanted to go to work for the government?
Obamas team was at the outset – as stated – a mixed one, with lots of Keynesians. Hence the stimulus. The size of the stimulus was one that could pass congress, that’s all.
Says who, you? Name a couple, and which ones you’d like to swap for (in Obamas post-inaugural economic team).
Jesse Ewiak
For all of those whining about how Obama could’ve gotten a bigger stimulus, tell me how you would convince Ben Nelson to vote for a bigger stimulus.
Aimai
@99
No, he’s clinging to his GUMS and his religion.
Aimai
Bruce S
Here’s the current state of the debt ceiling talks:
The Democrats are embracing the spitting image of a conservative Republican proposal straight out of the American Enterprise Institute and the GOP is refusing to go along, since Grover Norquist and old white people in funny hats who “want their country back” from this black man in the White House are making funny faces.
If the Dems get everything they’re asking for at this stage of the talks, IT’S A WIN FOR THE AEI! That’s how far down the road of totally-f-ed we are…
http://titanicsailsatdawn.blogspot.com/2011/06/obama-and-democrats-are-fighting-to-get.html
ruemara
I’m fairly excited. I put in the new cabinets I painted this weekend, probably set tile to make the counter and on the 4th, we’re hosting our bbq with a tiny tv set and dvd playing monster movies and playing games. I can’t wait to see the cabinets and everything installed. At least the kitchen will look like what I want before I have to go.
lawguy
Mnensoye and Danny. You both seem to assume that Obama could not have gotten anything else than he got. With the stimulus he started out essentially where he ended up.
As far as a majority of democrats being in luvvve with him. I can’t help it if they are not paying attention.
I will congratulate him on repeal of DADT when it finally happens, it is still the law you know.
As far as TARP is concerned. The bill as passed was deeply flawed and Bush’s baby. Obama did not try to make it any better, in any way. And there really was not question that at that point he was going to be the next president.
As far as another world wide depression wihtout just the bill that was passed. Maybe, maybe not. Tell it to the Greeks.
As far as Obama’s skills. Well, when our Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid are all cut with Obama’s support in the next year of so. Tell me about that great liberal and how he could do nothing again.
Feel free to tell me then how wrong I am. Cause I’ll remember.
boss bitch
Not a month goes by where I don’t see someone saying this. Or this, “finally”. Not his fault you guys have short memories.
Steeplejack
__
Work tonight, home about midnight, then I’m off tomorrow. Work Saturday, but then I’m off Sunday-Monday. So this will be a semi-holiday weekend for me rather than the usual I-get-Monday-off-anyway weekend.
No big plans so far. Probably a cookout or big dinner at the brother’s place on Monday, and I might go see a movie on Sunday. Just being off work is blessing enough.
Danny
@lawguy
You yourself proposed a “thought experiment” where he didnt get anything at all, because he was “blocked by republican obstructionists”. You then proposed that that would have been great because we would have won the midterms.
I pointed out some real world consequences of your own proposed strategy and your own assumed outcome and now you’re running away from that, pretending you never said it in the first place. Aawww.
Somehow I doubt you will….
It was necessary to avert complete financial breakdown to pass something. Pretty much all non-partisan expert agree on that. Obama made sure we got more or less all the money back, and he signed a bill that includes a fund for future bailouts, financed by a tax on the banks themselves. What else do you think he should have done re TARP?
Maybe, maybe not indeed. On this issue you are in perfect agreement with the teabaggers, who also assert that maybe we didnt need to pass TARP, things could have very well worked out dandy anyway. We’ll never know. 20/20: it’s easy saying in retrospect that maybe we should have gambled, maybe we’d have won big. It’s also deeply irresponsible. It’s the kind of behavior that is acceptable when you’re rabblerousing from the margins, far from ever having to be responsible yourself.
How about you wait until you see the outcome of the debt negotiations before you tell us what a poor liberal he is?
Marc
@110: When Obama doesn’t endorse any such proposals for cutting Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security, on the other hand, people like you will continue to pretend that A Betrayal Is Right Around The Corner. Despite being, you know, wrong on the subject repeatedly.
It doesn’t matter how often these “betrayals” fail to happen on these subjects. They just keep coming up, and bringing them up says a lot more about the (total lack of) credibility of the accuser than it does about Obama.
Danny
Btw Mark, I assumed your comment @84 was directed @76 and not @75, correct? :)
Mnemosyne
Ah, cognitive dissonance. The same person typed this:
and also typed this in the exact same post:
So Obama’s actual signing of the actual law repealing DADT doesn’t count because the process requested by the armed forces as part of the law is still in progress, but Obama’s cutting of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are established fact even though they haven’t happened yet.
And you wonder why we call you delusional?
Yutsano
I lurve the smell of poutrage in the morning. All we need is a primary of Obama! Yeah! That’ll show the ni…wait, what’d I say?
lawguy
Well, if you are in the military and come out of the closet right today over 180 days after DADT was repealed, you will be discharged. A Truman he ain’t.
As for the rest, as I said feel free to tell me how wrong I am in a few months or a year.
Danny
lawguy @ 118
This is in fact incorrect. There’s only been one discharge since the signing of the law and that was a guy who wanted to get out of the military and went and asked to be discharged.
Granted, you’d never hear the full story if you only read e.g. FDL et al.
Anyhow, may I now assume that you’ve decided to go with “no contention” on everything else we discussed?
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
My favorite President Obama line was, “a lot of this fuss is politics,” said to avoid answering whether he thought he was limited in any way in his war-making powers by Congress, the Constitution, or anything else short of his deeply believed-in Lord God, Jesus H. Christ.
And some people call this man a dick. Simply unbelievable.
.
.
lawguy
So DADT is no longer in effect? I was wrong? The Joint Chiefs of Staff have spoken?
I am not going to go back over the arguments that Krugman, Delong, James Galbreth and others made during the TARP thing and afterword, go read them again. Or don’t.
As far as the Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security things. All I can say is wait. You can tell me what an ass I am when he resoundingly defends them and saves them in their present form.
James E. Powell
@ General Stuck #79
The Carter years were also my first years in politics. What I find interesting is that you seem to be the only person besides me who remembers it this way.
Danny
@lawguy
Having read up some more on DADT I think I was probably wrong. There seems to have been at least 4 discharges in the air force in 2011. If I get it right it was still the case that all 4 volunteered that they were gay and asked to be discharged, but I don’t claim to know the full picture.
I am however quite certain that the law that congress passed and the president signed will indeed be certified in 2011, like Obama committed to already. It’s good that there are guys keeping up the pressure, but sluggish implementation (presumably to get the military fully onboard) is a minor annoyance at worst in the macro perspective.
But you firebaggers do love your nirvana fallacies so it’s no surprise that you’d whine about it and assume bad faith.
Are you saying that either Krugman, Delong or Galbreth recommended not passing TARP or something similar? Link please, I’d be very interested to read about it…
You’re aware of the fact that you’re trying to predict the future here – right; pretending you know what Obama will do? And you say “believe me now and blame me later if I’m wrong”. I’d rather not believe your ramblings now and give you credit if you turn out to be right…
However, dems already publicly laid down a marker on no benefit cuts wrt medicare if i remember correctly. So we’ll see…
HeartlandLiberal
stuckinred
OMG. That is exactly when I started grad school, Fall of 1969. I ended up doing all the course work for a PhD in German lit/languages, but never completed. Ended up as a database programmer and IT director. Go figure.
I will never forget one of my grad school German Professors, who had hit the beaches at Normandy, standing with the protestors against the Vietnam War. He had cred, trust me. And man, did he ever drill into his students the proper way to do research and documents. He was relentless. And you learned from it.
My friend that I visit occasionally, was with me in German studies, but ended up doing degrees in library science, and stayed there for his career. He retired last year, I retired just this past March.
I subscribe to a little English Language magazine that targets Germanophiles and descendants here in the states and over the world, and recently I noticed a series of articles, and thought I recognized the name. It was another colleague from that period. I tracked him down in New Mexico, where he had ended up as college professor, and touched bases with him recently.
Now you’ve got me planning a nostalgia trip. After all, its just a few hours drive for me.