Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

This fight is for everything.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

No one could have predicted…

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

I was promised a recession.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Republicans in disarray!

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

A Senator Walker would also be an insult to reason, rationality, and decency.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

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Reader Interactions

111Comments

  1. 1.

    Paul in KY

    I think raising the gas tax would be regressive. Considering the ways we are taxed (or not) here in this country, I don’t like regressive taxes as a general rule.

  4. 4.

    MeDrewNotYou

    Silly John! If we let the tax expire, John Galt will, well, will our roads fixed. Magic of the marketplace. Invisible hand and whatnot, doncha’ know.

  5. 5.

    cathyx

    And get ready for the “it will lower the price of gas if we let the tax expire” crowd. And then watch when the tax is expired to have no effect on the price at the pump.

  6. 6.

    Suffern ace

    Yeah. It helps remind the voters of the great bush achievement of low gas prices achieved after much effort in the last few weeks of his regime. I don’t remember it being so great as we got those prices because the economy was shrinking 10 percent. Must be high taxes that caused those prices to go back up.

  7. 7.

    Davis X. Machina

    Never bet against the stupid. The stupid doesn’t always win, but the stupid always covers the spread. Take the stupid and the points.

    And a mean-stupid parley is better than money in a Swiss bank.

  9. 9.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    I work for the federal agency responsible for highways, figure out who that is.

    Yes, of course we’ll fight over this because while everybody will say “we need to invest in our infrastructure”, the wingers don’t want to raise taxes to do so.

    Now, they’d love to toll every inch of the interstate and try to sell that as a way to fund highways but the only thing toll roads do is fund the toll authority’s existence, nothing more.

    Our national gas tax is a joke and totally inadequate. And yes, while it may be regressive, it also has the ability to change behavior for the better. I’ve seen how my rurl, red neighbors here in Central Misery changed their driving habits once gas went over $2.50 a gallon.

    It’s easy, you want good roads and a better overall transportation system, you have to *tax* appropriately. We don’t.

  10. 10.

    Violet

    @Paul in KY:
    Read the article. It’s not about raising it. It’s about the fact that it’s set to expire on September 30th unless Congress extends it.

  11. 11.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @cathyx: The nice thing is, we have evidence of this not working in the FAA partial shutdown. That should have lowered prices of tickets, but it didn’t, because the companies just kept the tax as profit.

    ETA: Not that I think that will have any actual influence over the discussion.

  13. 13.

    Special Patrol Group

    Are we honestly going to have a fight over our puny national gas tax? Seriously?

    Well of course we are. Because…uh…you know…SOCIALISM!!!

    WOLVERINES!!! FREEDOM!!!!

  14. 14.

    OzoneR

    It’s a tax, on something expensive, and it’s unpopular, of course we are.

    They know exactly where and when to fight, when they can’t lose.

  16. 16.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    @Violet:

    What’s set to expire is the latest extension of the last transportation bill. When SAFETEA-LU expired, it’s been extended ad-hoc. That’s right, the teatards can’t agree to a 6-year transportation bill. Hithertoo, if there was one thing the Repups would sign up for it was a pork-laden multi-year transportation program…without raising taxes of course. Back when we had a budget surplus, the negotiations were easy. Now….

  18. 18.

    Marshal T

    The gas tax is unpopular?

    If they pick a fight over this, we might as well just get this over with and have a civil war.

  19. 19.

    cathyx

    @Zifnab: And then we sell our roads to private corporations because the government needs the money to continue to operate. Then the corporations toll the road for it’s use to pay for it’s upkeep.
    Isn’t capitalism great?

  20. 20.

    Xenos

    Living in Europe, I pay about €5.00, or somewhere of $7.25 per gallon of diesel for my Citroen. It definitely limits my driving and fuel usage. But hey, there is a heavily subsidized bus system I can use… wonder how they fund that? And the roads are kept in really good condition.

  23. 23.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    @Marshal T:

    Good lord yes. Here in Misery, the highway department is cutting it’s work force by 10-20% almost immediately because the state gas tax lags far behind every neighboring state. Voters here bitch about the quality of the roads and bridges but won’t raise taxes to pay for em. The funding horizon was such that the state DOT would, in 2017, lose $500 million dollars in federal funds from the national gas tax unless it started shedding jobs and cutting back on projects *now*.

    Take Misery as a snapshot of how every red stater thinks, oops, in this case doesn’t think, about the connection between taxes and unimportant things like infrastructure.

  25. 25.

    Paul in KY

    Just read article. Obviously it would be insane to allow it to expire. Thus, I feel that is what the House will do.

    It probably could stand to be a few cents higher. I just wish our legislators had the balls to raise taxes where they should be raised (but that is like wishing for magic unicorns crapping pixie dust to fly out of my butt).

  26. 26.

    toujoursdan

    The most market-friendly way to get the economy off oil (which is a finite resource which may have ALREADY hit peak production, and whose price fluctuations ALREADY cause economic pain and hardship) is to slowly, over a decade to two, raise the gas tax way beyond European levels, use the funds to create faster, more efficient, more convenient inter- and intra-city public transportation, and let the market figure out how to cope with the higher petrol cost (viz., building denser housing in more compact cities; building smaller, more efficient cars; creating private mass transit for those who want to use it, etc.)

    As long as gas is cheap, we’ll waste gas. But this is a stupid, wasteful, short term driven country, so I know it will never happen.

  27. 27.

    Punchy

    I suspect the Rs that are against it are being lobbied by Exxon and whatnot who are creaming there pants at the thought of an additional 18.5 cents a gallon additional pure profit. Ala the airlines and the FAA tax thing….

  29. 29.

    Marshal T

    @OzoneR:

    I…I just…yeah. I’m gonna go look at my Bachman-Corndog picture now to add some levity back into my morning.

  31. 31.

    RosiesDad

    The Great Mustache has long argued for a much larger gas tax that would (1) raise revenues that could be used to pay down the debt (2) make alternative/renewable energy more competitive and (3) drive down demand by encouraging less driving and more economical vehicles.

    He is probably completely right about all of this but our political class will never do it because increased taxes take money away from job creators.

  32. 32.

    Auditer

    @Xenos:

    Living in Europe, I pay about €5.00, or somewhere of $7.25 per gallon of diesel for my Citroen. It definitely limits my driving and fuel usage. But hey, there is a heavily subsidized bus system I can use

    Here’s a Facebook status from a friend of mine to perk your mind

    Obama, what are you doing to lower gas prices? And no, I’m not giving up my Suburban, screw you.

  33. 33.

    PurpleGirl

    @cathyx: Not to pay for maintenance but to make the money they need to cover the cost of buying the road in the first place and then they need their profit. Maintenance is a distinct third.

  35. 35.

    dpCap

    but the media likes this argument because it’s CONTROVERSY and they can cover the blow-by-blow debates like Monday Night Football!

    Are you ready for some HOUSE VOTES!?!

  36. 36.

    Glenn

    Man, I guess they’re right when they say Keynes is dead. I mean, the Times and John and most of the commenters here are actually arguing for increasing a tax right now, and a highly regressive one at that? Yes, we need to keep spending to keep up roads, but people at negative real interest rates we should be borrowing that money.

    Just ’cause the Republicans oppose something doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

  37. 37.

    kindness

    Grover Norquest takes no prisoners….he instead gets off on drowning them in bathtubs. (hide your puppies & kittens from this man)

  39. 39.

    daveNYC

    @Violet:

    You’re actually asking that question? Seriously? Did you forget who runs the House?

    Master-Blaster does.

    Actually, that’d be an improvement.

  40. 40.

    Davis X. Machina

    @Glenn: Just because something’s a good idea doesn’t mean the Republicans are going to pass it.

    Welcome to the age of Plan B.

  42. 42.

    OzoneR

    @PurpleGirl:

    government waste = state road workers (who we all know don’t work a full day like the repugs do)

    You act like that’s a parody. Here in NYC, the common solution people have to solve the MTA financial crisis? Get rid of token booth clerks.

    That’s right, fire more people and leave subway stations unattended.

    But it’s jobs people care about, sure.

  43. 43.

    Judge Crater

    There is a sort of global regression to the mean going on. The Chinese are out-producing us in every respect at a quarter of the cost. Their citizens are going from bicycles and motor scooters to cars. We, in the U.S., will soon be moving in the opposite direction – from cars (except to live in) to bicycles and scooters.

    Thus, as austerity and lower taxes (the solution of the luddite right) take hold, roads and highways as we have known them will become superfluous. What kind of road do you need to ride a bicycle? For the masses on bicycles, dirt roads will be sufficient. Very expensive toll roads will of course be available for the plutocracy. Built by cheap non-union labor and financed by currency swaps and other derivative schemes, the rich will get the highways they need to maintain their economic head-lock on our emerging banana republic.

    China fifty years ago is the America of tomorrow.

  45. 45.

    wrb

    Aug. 14–Can the Columbia River Crossing survive the Tea Party?

    The historic deficit-reduction deal that conservative Republicans wrested from the Obama administration two weeks ago, as well as the subsequent downgrade of U.S. government debt by Standard & Poor’s, has delivered a potent one-two punch to business as usual in Washington, D.C.

    Big-ticket projects like the CRC, which is relying on Uncle Sam for half its $3 billion price tag, are facing the specter of some of its most important funding sources getting significantly downsized or cut altogether.

    John Mica, Republican chair of the House Transportation Committee, has proposed slashing spending on surface transportation projects over the next six years by 35 percent. Republicans have also called for eliminating altogether the New Starts program that funds mass transit.

    The CRC’s funding was never locked down. But the national budget squeeze makes the funding even more speculative.

    The CRC has worked for years on an environmental impact statement and other crucial planning work — at a cost of more than $130 million — needed to qualify for some of the federal support.

    Killing New Starts would put a $850 million hole in the CRC’s funding. It could also throw a major wrench into TriMet’s Portland-Miwaukie light rail extension, which is counting on New Starts for half of its $1.4 billion price.

    Mica, R-Fla, has proposed a six-year, $230 billion transportation bill that would slash spending by about a third from existing levels. His plan would make the federal highway trust fund stand on its own and end the regular infusions of general fund cash.
    “Our years of excessive deficit spending are at an end,” Mica wrote in July. “The priorities of the American taxpayer have been and will be placed ahead of the unchecked desires of some in Washington to spend money that is borrowed…”

    Rep. Peter DeFazio, a long-time member of the transportation committee, lamented Mica’s position, saying its bad for the economy and the nation’s transportation infrastructure.
    “A 35 percent reduction means 600,000 construction jobs lost,” the Eugene Democrat said. “We’re already spending less than we need to keep up on improvements to the existing degraded infrastructure. It’s nuts. They’re nuts.”

    Stimulus!

  46. 46.

    niknik

    @Glenn:

    Just ‘cause the Republicans oppose something doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

    Sure makes for a good litmus test, though.

  47. 47.

    wrb

    @Glenn:

    Yes, we need to keep spending to keep up roads, but people at negative real interest rates we should be borrowing that money

    Very true. What dooms is is that the superficiality is on both sides.

  48. 48.

    Dennis SGMM

    Ending the federal gasoline tax, if the retailers pass along the savings, will mean that I’ll save roughly $1.80 every time I fill my old Miata or my ’92 Escort. Total savings will amount to around $7.20 a month. I’m gonna’ use that money to create jobs.

  50. 50.

    Villago Delenda Est

    One of the advantages of the gas tax, despite its regressive nature, is that is by its very nature measures the use of the resource it’s paying for…highways and roads. You drive more, you pay more tax. Drive less, pay less. This is true as long as the tax is strictly for building and maintaining the infrastructure needed by automobiles to get around. It’s much more efficient, and not as intrusive, as the many proposed “road use taxes” based on devices on your vehicle to monitor how many miles you travel and tax based on that.

  51. 51.

    Dennis SGMM

    Is there any reason why the states wouldn’t simply bump their gasoline taxes by eighteen cents if Congress allows the federal tax to expire?

  52. 52.

    grandpajohn

    @Judge Crater: Yep, It doesn’t matter how cheap the gas is if there are no roads to travel on. The future for the automobile industry is in off road vehicles

  53. 53.

    OzoneR

    @Dennis SGMM:

    Is there any reason why the states wouldn’t simply bump their gasoline taxes by eighteen cents if Congress allows the federal tax to expire?

    Tea party governors?

  54. 54.

    toujoursdan

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Thanks. It just stuns me that even with the most optimistic predictions showing, due to growing demand and depleting supply, that in a decade or so we’re going to have oil shortages that make the early 70s look like a walk in the park, we’re actually talking about putting in policies that will make Americans even MORE dependent on the stuff.

    None of the alternative energy sources can take the place of oil. None give us the same Energy Returned on Energy Invested ratio. None of the alternatives have equivalent infrastructure ALREADY in place. None of the alternatives can be used for plastics, industry, medicines, food production, etc. in the way that oil is used.

    But even so, unless we make the alternatives and conservation an attractive alternative, we’re going to keep on wasting it until it’s too expensive to use at all, and we’re screwed.

  55. 55.

    grandpajohn

    @Dennis SGMM: Look on the bright side. Eliminating the gas tax means no money to maintain the roads which will then gradually become unusable and make your vehicle unusable so that you won’t need to buy any gas and will save all that money. Now I don’t know what you are going to spend it on since with no roads, merchandise can’t get to the stores or even be manufactured but at least you won’t have to worry about gas prices.

  56. 56.

    OzoneR

    @toujoursdan:

    unless we make the alternatives and conservation an attractive alternative, we’re going to keep on wasting it until it’s too expensive to use at all, and we’re screwed.

    Not sure how you do that, people are not going to give up their gas guzzlers willingly. It’s a pride thing to them.

    Somehow we have to make it so it’s not cool to drive those cars. Driving gas guzzlers needs to be like smoking or doing crack.

  57. 57.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @toujoursdan:

    But even so, unless we make the alternatives and conservation an attractive alternative, we’re going to keep on wasting it until it’s too expensive to use at all, and we’re screwed.

    Not to worry. The baby Jeebus will return before any of that happens and whisk the deserving of us all away to a paradise of plenty of virgins and lots of meatballs in marinara sauce.

    Oh, wait, I’m mixing up my invisible sky buddies. Sorry.

  60. 60.

    Dennis SGMM

    @grandpajohn:

    No worries. I’ll just park the Miata in a sunny spot, remove the hood and trunk lid, fill the whole thing with dirt, and grow vegetables in it. I’ll park the Escort (Station wagon) beside it for us to live in.

  61. 61.

    Suffern ACE

    @wrb: What exactly does that mean that the trust fund will stand on its own? What is it going to make investments in? Or has it developed a taxing authority that I wasn’t aware of.

  62. 62.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @OzoneR:

    Did you live through the oil shock of the 70’s?

    For a while, when gas became more expensive and harder to get, gas guzzlers went out of vogue. An example of the market actually doing what the market is supposed to do, on an Econ 101 basis. People started abandoning their land yachts from GM, Ford, and Chrysler and started buying Datsuns (think Nissan) and Toyotas. Suddenly, the Honda Civic didn’t seem to be that bad an idea for basic transportation compared to a Chevy Impala or a Ford Galaxie.

    The only reason the gas guzzlers came back (in the form of the obscene symbol of wretched excess, the SUV) is that the oil shock effect didn’t last, and prices for gas moderated. If they start going up again, and we’ve already seen this begin to happen, SUV sales plummet as people look for cheaper ways to get to work than gas guzzling land yachts.

  63. 63.

    Brian

    If the investor class were to be taxed properly (that is, MUCH more), we could hold or even reduce the gas tax and still fund the infrastructure projects we need to. As mentioned, this tax is regressive, and as much as I want to get off of oil, I’d like not to increase taxes on those least able to afford to pay them. We have a demand problem, and as long as taxes are siphoning money from the “spenders” (as opposed to “job creators,” who have mountains of cash), we’re not going anywhere.

  64. 64.

    Citizen_X

    @Judge Crater:

    China fifty years ago is the America of tomorrow.

    I was going to say that at least we’ll have lots of goofy propaganda posters, but then those were used to sell Five Year Plans and the like. And we’re not going to have any sort of government planning of anything, you know.

  66. 66.

    Suffern ACE

    @Citizen_X: Yep. At this point, congress figuring out what to do an hour from now is a bit too forward thinking and reeks of a socialist central planning slippery slope.

  67. 67.

    wrb

    @Suffern ACE:

    What exactly does that mean that the trust fund will stand on its own? What is it going to make investments in? Or has it developed a taxing authority that I wasn’t aware of.

    It means making it rely on its source of money outside the general fund: the very fuel tax they’ve proposed eliminating.

    One Two!

    It’s all right now, in fact it’s a gas.

  68. 68.

    Citizen_X

    You know, for decades people were wondering if civilization was going to collapse due to nuclear war, ecosystem collapse, peak oil, etc. Who ever guessed that civilization would actually collapse because too many people would just give up?

  69. 69.

    Suffern ACE

    @wrb: Good lord. How is that supposed to work? Maybe China will offer to build our roads for us if we agree to use Chinese workers and contractors. You know, the way projects get done in other fourth rate countries.

  70. 70.

    Suffern ACE

    @Citizen_X: I believe that is what happened to the Indus Valley civilization. Had indoor plumbing and sewage systems a few thousand years before anybody else. Decided they were tired of deciding whether or not to hire a plumber whenever they had leaks, and just moved on to the free cities where a man could be a man and dump his crap in the streets and no one thought twice about it.

  72. 72.

    OzoneR

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    For a while, when gas became more expensive and harder to get, gas guzzlers went out of vogue.

    Emphasis on “for a while”

    If gas goes up, people will give up their SUV’s, but not without first lashing out at those they blame for it.

  73. 73.

    Kirbster

    The teabaggers will shed tears of joy on the day that President Perry sells the federal interstate highway system for pennies on the dollar to a consortium of Middle Eastern oil sheiks and Malaysian gambling syndicates through a shell corporation fronted by Goldman Sachs.

  78. 78.

    WereBear

    SUV sales plummet as people look for cheaper ways to get to work than gas guzzling land yachts.

    And even that reaction made no sense; people were dumping them on the market for zip. It was a boon to my circle of friends, which was primarily starving college students like myself in the late ’70’s. As one put it, “I can buy a lot of gas by saving two grand on buying a car.”

    A local, somewhat out of the way, gas station used to do Nickel Off Wednesdays. People would crowd around, idling, spending their lunch hour in line, until they could pull up and save a whopping SIXTY CENTS on their fill up.

    People are innumerate. They don’t understand math, much less money.

  79. 79.

    TheHalfrican

    I’d love to know what Krauthammer thinks of this. He’s been in favor of radically hiking up the gas tax for decades.

  80. 80.

    Dennis SGMM

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Heh! It isn’t the easiest book to love. I enjoy it for Pirsig’s observations regarding the “Romantic” versus the “Classical” approaches to life. Having ridden a Honda 305 back in the day doesn’t hurt either.

  81. 81.

    trollhattan

    To clarify: teh Free Markets (PBUT) want all roads to be privately owned toll roads. That way, only the worthy shall use them and you looters can just fucking walk to your crack dealer.

  82. 82.

    Seanly

    God dammit! I am on the verge of getting a new job after being unemployed for six months. I was a bridge engineer. Finally got some good interviews over the last few weeks. Waiting to hear back about a position right now. Don’t need more idiocy about getting rid of highway spending right now.

    Our roads & bridges are falling apart and one way or another, we are going to have to pay for them. More toll roads won’t be the answer. And while the gas tax is regressive, it is at least something. Plus, wouldn’t charging per mile driven be just as regressive?

  83. 83.

    trollhattan

    @Seanly:

    I wonder how folks in the Twin Cities are feeling about bridge and roadway maintenance? (And I don’t suppose Bachmann’s district is anywhere near that bridge collapse.)

    Good luck on the job hunt! We’ll get back to you on whether it’s a volunteer position, I guess.

  84. 84.

    toujoursdan

    But the gas tax is regressive ONLY if there are no other options available. If there was affordable, convenient, efficient public transportation and people didn’t have to drive a car, the gas tax wouldn’t be regressive at all. It was just tax people who choose to own cars.

  86. 86.

    OzoneR

    @efgoldman:

    Now that T-Paw is out of the running, maybe all those I-35 collapse pix and videos that the other campaigns were saving up to show his incompetence can be repurposed to say “See! This is what happens when you don’t maintain the roads.”

    the problem isn’t “we need to repair roads,” people get that, the problem is financing it. People don’t want to pay more taxes for that, or taxes on already expensive things like gas.

    They’ll say, “Get the money from somewhere else.” We liberals have no answer to that and that’s why we get rolled on these issues.

  87. 87.

    danimal

    From the NYT piece:

    Before Congress starts running with another very bad idea, President Obama should press to extend the tax now. And he should start explaining why — for the sake of the economy, the environment and a functioning transportation system — this tax will need to rise.

    Obama should also wear suits with a bullseye on his rear end and a “kick me” sign. Obama doesn’t need to confirm that he’s a tax-loving soc!alist every time the Tea Party screams. Just publicize the Tea Party craziness and let the people sort it out.

    Fergawdsake, the gas tax is pretty popular as a way to finance roads and infrastructure. The vast majority of Americans, despite their grumbling, support the gas tax and understand the need to maintain our roads.

  88. 88.

    OzoneR

    @toujoursdan:

    If there was affordable, convenient, efficient public transportation and people didn’t have to drive a car, the gas tax wouldn’t be regressive at all. It was just tax people who choose to own cars.

    In many parts of the country, working class don’t have a choice but to drive a car.

    You’re not going to run a subway through the Ozarks or Monongalia County, West Virginia.

  89. 89.

    OzoneR

    @danimal:

    Fergawdsake, the gas tax is pretty popular as a way to finance roads and infrastructure. The vast majority of Americans, despite their grumbling, support the gas tax and understand the need to maintain our roads.

    is this snark?

  90. 90.

    danimal

    @OzoneR: No. Let the Tea Party propose an alternative method of funding roads and infrastructure. They won’t. This is all posturing, and Dems would be foolish to allow it to become another hostage. Liberal hysteria is their goal.

    Just present the facts and prepare a list of road projects in every congressional district that will be halted as a result of the cessation of the gas tax. Then let the people decide.

    Infrastructure spending is really, really popular everywhere in the nation, even in the reddest of the red districts.

  91. 91.

    Dennis SGMM

    @danimal:
    The gas tax hasn’t been raised since 1993. According to this survey 60% of the public believes that the tax is raised annually. Suggesting that Obama should shy away from educating the public about the tax is to suggest that he shouldn’t advocate for anything other than his own re-election.

  92. 92.

    SFAW

    Are we honestly going to have a fight over our puny national gas tax? Seriously?

    John –

    Why are you even asking this question? Bored and feel the need to troll your own blog, yet again?

    Seriously.

  93. 93.

    wrb

    @danimal:

    Obama should also wear suits with a bullseye on his rear end and a “kick me” sign. Obama doesn’t need to confirm that he’s a tax-loving soc!alist every time the Tea Party screams.

    It isn’t a fight to have at this time. We need to defer paying the bill for better infrastructure until the economy is cooking, and need to build it now with borrowed money. Repealing the gas tax is actually one of the most stimulating cuts that can be made and the results of elimination are progressive too.

    Long term it is a good tax, though, because of the way it influences behavior.

    More people need to understand that policies that are good long-term can be harmful in the depth of the recession. So now that Republicans have committed, Obama should say “thank ‘ee kindly” grab the issue, and demand a two-year suspension of the tax accompanied by no reduction in expenditures.

  94. 94.

    OzoneR

    @danimal:

    Let the Tea Party propose an alternative method of funding roads and infrastructure. They won’t.

    They don’t need to, they’ll simply say “We don’t have the money for this” and then suggest we balance the budget and then we’ll have it, and half the country will nod their head and say “yes, that makes sense”

    Infrastructure spending is really, really popular everywhere in the nation, even in the reddest of the red districts.

    I’m aware of that, which is why David Weprin is trying to make it an issue in NY09, but the gas tax is not, and this is not about infrastructure spending, this is about the gas tax.

  95. 95.

    SFAW

    Suggesting that Obama should shy away from educating the public about the tax is to suggest that he shouldn’t advocate for anything other than his own re-election.

    plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose?

    Incoming!

  96. 96.

    OzoneR

    @Dennis SGMM:

    Suggesting that Obama should shy away from educating the public about the tax is to suggest that he shouldn’t advocate for anything other than his own re-election.

    Suggesting Obama has the ability to educate the public on anything is to suggest you haven’t been paying attention for the past four years. In the end, he couldn’t even convince the public that we should raise the damn debt ceiling.

    If anyone is going to educate the public, it’s going to be trusted figures in the media.

  97. 97.

    trollhattan

    All the kerfuffle over $0.184/gallon? I’ve been paying over $4/gal most of the year, so letting it lapse won’t help me and doubling it wouldn’t hurt me.

    I vote for doubling.

  99. 99.

    OzoneR

    @Dennis SGMM:

    It’s just that I’m plagued by a few shreds of hope.

    yeah, you should probably get rid of that, it’s not helping. The black guy is not going to convince a white country that loses its shit over taxes and a tax on an expensive necessary commodity is a good thing. I don’t understand how anyone could even think that’s possible.

    If people can buy gas for a penny cheaper, they’ll do it, even if it’s some shady ass gas station with no name. Imagine what they’ll think when told it could be 18 cents cheaper.

    This is why the GOP is picking this fight. Like the debt ceiling, they can’t lose.

  100. 100.

    danimal

    @Dennis SGMM: Why does Obama have to be the target educator? I sincerely do not understand why liberals want the president to do all the heavy lifting on everything. All the Tea Party wants to do is tie the name Obama with the words “gas tax.” It’s a political gotcha game.

    Independents would loathe the GOP if Interstate ABC expansion is halted and the Bridge to Somewhere won’t get built because of Tea Party posturing. It’s a bluff.

    If the gas tax is really that unpopular, we should let it expire and stop all the road-building projects that are funded by gas taxes. That won’t happen, because behind the scenes, every GOP elected official wants those precious “pork-barrel” projects to happen.

  101. 101.

    OzoneR

    @danimal:

    If the gas tax is really that unpopular, we should let it expire and stop all the road-building projects that are funded by gas taxes.

    Except much like the debt ceiling, this is probably going to hurt Obama as much, if not more, than the GOP

    And that they’re fine with.

  102. 102.

    danimal

    @OzoneR:

    Except much like the debt ceiling, this is probably going to hurt Obama as much, if not more, than the GOP

    I respectfully disagree. Look at the recent polling; Obama has stayed fairly consistent, maybe losing a point or two, while the GOP is less popular than herpes. They’re killing themselves with these stunts.

  103. 103.

    OzoneR

    I respectfully disagree. Look at the recent polling; Obama has stayed fairly consistent, maybe losing a point or two, while the GOP is less popular than herpes. They’re killing themselves with these stunts.

    you might want to look at a few more polls from this week. I don’t think they care about their numbers if they can bring Obama down with them. That’s, after all, the only reason they got elected.

    EDIT: Kamikaze Congress

  104. 104.

    toujoursdan

    @OzoneR: Nope. Not a subway, but there is no reason one can’t have regular rural bus services. They and the electric lines that connected cities to smaller rural towns existed before the car became ubiquitous.

  105. 105.

    Paul in KY

    @toujoursdan: The gas for the rich person’s Maybach costs the same as the gas for the poor person’s Yugo. That is basically why it is regressive. Probably no way to mitigate that, so long as the tax is there.

  107. 107.

    OzoneR

    @toujoursdan:

    but there is no reason one can’t have regular rural bus services.

    Even when there’s like 10 people living on a road? Even when you live a mile from the road?

    You sometimes have to walk a mile just to get to a major road in rural communities. I grew up in a small town, but just a half hour north of me, you’re talking 10-mile long dirt roads. Look at the Catskills for another good example. Some of these people are no where near a major road

    And beyond that, when do you run the buses? Do you run them every 10 minutes? Once a day? What if everyone goes to work at different times? Are you going to run a bus for one person?

    public transportation is not practical in rural areas because there aren’t enough people to support it nor is it convenient. In most cases, you still have to drive to it. I’ve had friends whose parents had to drive them to the school bus stop.

  109. 109.

    Ruckus

    @OzoneR:
    If people can buy gas for a penny cheaper, they’ll do it, even if it’s some shady ass gas station with no name. Imagine what they’ll think when told it could be 18 cents cheaper.

    You’d think this would be true and in many cases it probably is. But a mile from me is the most expensive gas station in the county. Across the street is one of the least expensive. 40-50 cents a gallon price difference. I have seen people I know, who have told me they are struggling, fill up at the expensive station. And there are almost always cars in the expensive station. Driving across the street saves 40-50 cents per gal, not per fill up.
    This may be an anomaly but it has been consistent for the last 3 yrs.

  110. 110.

    joeyess

    Oh boy! I can’t wait for Goldman-Cul De Sacs to open. Maybe we’ll also have an Exxon Express or a BoA Boulevard.

  111. 111.

    TenguPhule

    If anyone is going to educate the public, it’s going to be trusted figures in the media.

    Mad Max beyond Thunderdome it is, then.

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