Paul Krugman is shrill caustic to “Ron Wyden, Useful Idiot“:
… Sen. Ron Wyden did indeed do a bad, bad thing in his joint proposal with Paul Ryan. Ezra Klein explains why; and the devil isn’t in the details.
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What Wyden did was to give cover to the fundamental fallacy of right-wing attempts to dismantle Medicare: the claim that market competition is the key to reducing health care costs. We have overwhelming evidence on this — and it just isn’t true…
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Oh, and if someone starts talking about how the Affordable Care Act relies on private insurers, give me a break; the reason the ACA works the way it does is the raw power of the insurance industry, which forced advocates of universal coverage to settle for an inferior system. I still think that deal was worth doing, but there’s no reason to take Medicare, which does it right — or at least closer to right — and degrade it into a worse system.
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So why would anyone who isn’t a right-wing ideologue propose that kind of degradation? Inquiring minds want to know.
Dave Weigel at Slate suggests a possible reason, in “Ron Wyden Will Have His Revenge“:
… So what explains the Democrat from Utopia deciding to get on board with this? Occam’s razor: He believes in it. But another factor has to be the fate of one of Wyden’s great contributions to the Affordable Care Act, his Free Choice Vouchers. In April, when the parties were trading away pieces of the government in order to pass a continuing resolution, the vouchers were killed. No funeral — just gone. Wyden banged on about it at the time, but you can see that his Huffington Post column about the diss has as many reads as a slideshow about cats gets in its first hour. Wyden’s idea was unceremoniously killed. And what do you know — Free Choice Vouchers are part of Wyden-Ryan.
cathyx
Wyden has shown his turncoat-ism in the past. He’s become too beholden to the industries to be much good anymore. I’m pessimistically waiting for Merkley to turn sometime soon too.
El Cid
I read the linked op-ed by Wyden, and it seems to me this is his argument to the urgency of this approach, at least at the PPACA stage:
So in his view it was needed to address those in-betweeners who are working poor but can’t get subsidized insurance and who would therefore be aided in being able to access the healthcare exchanges (which don’t exist yet).
And that over time, economic changes and premium rises might have more people joining that category, and thus with more people in the exchanges, the power of the regular insurance system could be weakened.
I don’t see how that same logic — whether or not the foregoing was convincing — could be applied to Medicare.
I do have to say that in general Medicare seems to me to be contrary to the trend of American political elite ideology, and if it weren’t for its electoral success and remaining influence, the political classes would *much* rather get rid of what appears to be some antiquated ‘soshullist’ program and replace it with shiny new ‘market’ this that and the other.
Hanging on to Medicare as is also seems old, stick-in-the-mud, weak, and not hip, challenging, contrarian, bold, and it doesn’t have the flavor of kicking people in the ass to do stuff for themselves, like all the millionaire Senators clearly have done.
Zagloba
Evidence schmevidence. If I’ve learned one thing from Ludwig van Mises, it’s that if you’re right you don’t need facts to agree with you.
Benjamin Franklin
Revenge? Whose?
“l my vision of a health care system in which every American would be empowered to hire and fire their insurance company, they were a foothold for choice and competition ”
My vision is a vibrant free market too. That’s why I like the competition
between phone co’s, and other utilities. Or how about gasoline? Yeah, there
are so many different places for me to shop and those price comparisons are vast. If I don’t like the service or features given by one insurance co., I am FREEEEEEEE! to go find another.
Woot !
Villago Delenda Est
“Useful idiot” is a perfect term for Wyden. Anyone who gives neofeudalist shitstain Ryan the time of day, let alone cover for his anti-democratic, enrich the overlords ideology deserves no quarter.
Fuck Wyden. He just shat in his bed.
Zagloba
@Benjamin Franklin: Personally, I’m in shock and awe at my ability to hire and fire my internet provider.
Dr. Squid
IOW, Wyden’s throwing a Joementum-style hissy fit.
Benjamin Franklin
@Dr. Squid:
Heh. It’s those personal vendettas which motivate them to seek revenge.
The Constituency? Meh !
Hill Dweller
Speaking of idiots, House Republicans are trying to kill the payroll tax cut and unemployment insurance extension that passed the Senate yesterday.
carpeduum
Correct me if I’m wrong. Did KThug just say that the Affordable Care Act was worth doing?
This is the same Kthug that said, at the time all the diaper soiling was occurring on the left over it, that Obama sold us out and it would have been better to not do it at all.
So is Kthug being hypocritical yet again? Hoping memories have faded over his past positions?
satch
Wyden sez: “Some employers — especially small employers — had already expressed interest in expanding the Free Choice Voucher provision so they would no longer be in the position of having to pick their employees health insurance. (snip) This would be good for employers because it would get them out of the health insurance business.” Y’know, I hate to say I Told Ya So, but if single payer had been sold aggressively as a way for small employers… indeed, ALL employers… to “get out of the health insurance business”, we’d probably have it today, and we’d all be saying: “Paul Ryan? Who’s that?” Democrats couldn’t market their way out of a wet paper bag.
PeakVT
I’ve come to really hate the US Senate over the past decade.
Davis X. Machina
@satch: Unfortunately, NFIB is more interested in boosting the GOP than doing anything for actual small businesses.
“Small business” and “entrepreneurship” are recently-founded religions, not meaningful economic entities.
And Another Thing…
Stupid, stupid me… I voted for him several times. Right now, I want to drive a stake through his heart.
If he wants to have a policy fight over vouchers/”free market” shit, file the bill in 2012. Doing this now is fragging the Democrats.
And there are a lot of Oregonians who are really pisssssed.
Villago Delenda Est
The comments on Krugman’s column are filled with idiots who love “free markets” but do not have the first clue as to how they actually work.
Just a set of wingtard morons spouting the utter crap that Faux Nooze feeds them.
We need to seriously consider a culling of the stupid in this country.
Greg Worley
This is the wrath of Khan, political style. As Dr. Squid noted, someone seems to have taken Joe Lieberman’s shrunken soul and used an earwig to put into Wyden’s shrunken brain.
PIGL
@Villago Delenda Est: the problem is not stupid, as such. The problem is vicious and mean assholery. There are effective assays for these personality characteristics, and these should be the determinant of the right to vote. The universalist pretensions of the Enlightenment were correct with respect to race, sex, religion, and all other factors except one: the internal disposition, seemingly set at conception, to be an authoritarian or authoritarian follower. These people can not be allowed to participate in the political process, or what are seeing is what we will always get. There are enough of them (roughly 25%) to spike the gears and to drive the ratchet downwards, one election at a time. The bizarre distribution of power in the USA simply makes it easier; the same problem occurs everywhere, for example, in Canada. Once a party of privilège learns how to exploit this permanent source of unconditionl support, all bets are off.
Hill Dweller
@Villago Delenda Est: Even at places like TPM and Think Progress, the comments section makes me want to drink gas. This country is overflowing with stupid.
amk
@Villago Delenda Est: That would wipe out nearly half the population.
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: Adlai, I thought you had died.
amk
@Omnes Omnibus: You lose.
Ben
OTOH, Wyden voted against the NDAA…IDK if that cancels out his work with Ryan, or if his work with Ryan cancels out his vote against NDAA…
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: Again? This could become a habit.
Omnes Omnibus
Deleted double post.
amk
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m out. Nap time.
gaz
@carpeduum: Krugman was pretty clear about the ACA. You misread him on purpose. Because you are an idiot. And because misreading him fit nicely with your moronic POS POV. Which seems to be… LEFTIES BAD WAAAHHH BARGLE BLARG..
/yawn
jayackroyd
@carpeduum: Krugman’s position has always been that the ACA is better than nothing, and that there are mechanisms that could lead to cost control.
gaz
@Villago Delenda Est:
And what exactly do you think the GOP has been trying to do for years?
Killing grandma, sacrificing the poor randroids to the altar of the rich randroids, attempting to destroy the FDA, the EPA, etc. Oh, and their ultimate stupid culling tactic – sending the rubes to die in useless wars.
These people have been trying to kill people stupid enough to vote for them, since at least Nixon.
Benjamin Franklin
@gaz:
Is he always sucking on a lemon?
gaz
@Villago Delenda Est: Adding, my only real problem with it is the collateral damage.
gaz
@Benjamin Franklin: Well, he’s always sucking.
That much I’m sure of. I’d like to think the choking bit was when Paul Ryan squirted into the back of his throat before pulling out for the money shot
Villago Delenda Est
@gaz:
Yeah, the collateral damage is always problematic, at best.
The GOP’s eternal issue of “get the government out of my wallet, and move it over into that slut’s vagina” always amazes me in the pure doublethink of it all.
gaz
@Villago Delenda Est: Sluts gotta eat too! =)
gaz
So… Are we at the point where we can all agree that Wyden is colossal sack of salted dicks? Or are there still people in Oregon that are boneheaded enough to vote for the guy in 2016?
Does Oregon have a recall mechanism?
gaz
@PIGL:
Dude, they’re the same thing.
Dumb and Mean go together like PB&J…
Leah
@carpeduum:
Krugman was critical of the many concessions that were made during the legislative sausage making, and that included Obama’s various roles, but Krugman never withdrew his support for the passage of even the compromised bill, and he made the argument why it was worth passing regularly in his column and on his blog. Check out one example
kindness
Wyden is a dickhead.
He took one of the Democratic Party’s best campaign issue and screwed it. Dickhead. Thankfully there has been enough pushback from decent people to suggest what Wyden is selling is unpossible. Will those words ever be heard on the ‘liberal’ NPR, CNN or the ‘fair and balanced’ Paux News? No, never. Never will make the rotation. They’ll only report that a bipartisan group agrees with Ryan.
Why old folk aren’t screaming more about the Republican plans ahead really makes me wonder wtf?
Nickws
@Benjamin Franklin:
Now, Ben, be honest; when Obamacare passed, with it’s consumer exchange provisions that promote competition, you (or whatever lame pseudonym you were writing under) wrote hundreds of words online about how the free market was doomed, right?
Right? You did oppose the PPACA, the very thing which Ryan and Wyden now want to turn Medicare into?
That would be code for “Mommy, come to the basement and bring me more cheetos” I assume.
carpeduum
@gaz: Actually I am a true ‘Lefty’. One that supports Democrats and Obama through thick and thin even if I don’t agree with everything they do. One that doesn’t soil my diapers and scream “Obama sold us out” at the drop of a hat like former (and I suspect still) Republican Wrong Again Cole regularly does.
People like Cup Half Empty Cole are the ones that are not true lefties any more than Greenwald, Cenk, etc. The funny thing is that the one thing all these people have in common is they are self described “former” Republicans. Things that make you go hmmmm.
Benjamin Franklin
@Nickws:
Well, I’ve been commenting here for about 2 weeks, so I don’t know who, or wtf you are talking about.
But I thank you for thoroughly discrediting me, and magically, without even directly addressing it!
carpeduum
@jayackroyd: I googled and you seem to be correct. So hard to keep track of KThug “outrage”. He has a long list but ACA doesn’t seem to be one of them. As opposed to all the other firebaggers. Funny how nobody talks about his outrage that Obama did not nationalize the banks. Or how the stimulus was not enough and that also was all Obama’s fault.
Auldblackjack
The Left’s should obviously try to kill any bill that turns Medicare into a defined contribution health plan, but a good fallback position would be to say “Only if the new Demi-Medicare, including the fee for service plan, is opened to EVERYONE in the country”.
A public option and a private insurance industry poison pill all wrapped up in one.
Nickws
@Benjamin Franklin: “Well, I’ve been commenting here for about 2 weeks, so I don’t know who, or wtf you are talking about.”
Sorry, not only do I not believe you have the kind of impulse control that would keep you off blog comments sections until the last month of 2011, but it’s hardly credible to me that you kept your shit together when Obama signed healthcare reform into law.
Hey, but it’s the free market of ideas. If I say I believe that you support the PPACA’s health exchanges will you consider buying this bridge I have in Brooklyn?
When we make the transaction you can use any one of your screennames for the title deed.
catclub
@satch: “Y’know, I hate to say I Told Ya So, but if single payer had been sold aggressively as a way for small employers… indeed, ALL employers… to “get out of the health insurance business”, we’d probably have it today”
Well if it were marketed that way AND you had 61 progressive votes in the senate and 245 in the house.
Note that Joe Lieberman votes AGAINST single payer, for just one example.
gaz
@carpeduum: Oh joy. The True-Scottsman argument.
I love my country always, and my government when it deserves it.
I don’t give a fuck what your bent is. You just sound like a clown to me.
carpeduum
@gaz: You are clearly a mass-debator by calling people names like a child. You obviously understand how that makes your argument so much more credible.
Such is the high quality of groupies I get on BJ. It’s what keeps me going so give me more please.
Ben Cisco
@Greg Worley: At least CPT Terrell had the fortitude to off himself before maximizing the damage.
cmorenc
The time for Wyden to have publicly attempted a collaborative effort with Ryan (if indeed any such time could prudently ever exist) would have been soon AFTER the 2012 elections, during the grace period when politicians in Congress are given greater license to attempt fresh starts on cooperative relations and new initiatives without getting caught so much in the quicksand of the next approaching election cycle. For Wyden to have done so precisely during the period of rapidly escalating focus on the 2012 election cycle and after such a disastrous example of the GOP’s destructive intransigence as the debt-ceiling limit debacle, is monstrously stupid at best, and outright Lieberman-esque cynical and petty-evil if indeed one of the motives was Wyden exacting retribution for bruised fee-fees.
Let us hope that the firestorm of angry feedback he’s receiving, both nationally and locally back home in Oregon, is forcing him to re-think and soon publicly back off from this enormous mistake. Unless that is, he has a political death-wish for himself and his party.
Yutsano
@gaz: He has no stake. He’s Canadian. You can ignore him at your leisure.
gaz
@carpeduum:
Hypocrite much?
Clown.
Djur
@gaz: Federal officeholders cannot be recalled by state law. Representatives and Senators can only leave office by reaching the end of their elected term, death, resignation, or expulsion by the rules of the chamber of which they are a member.
AA+ Bonds
Just wanted to stop by and say fuck David Weigel and again express my surprise and dismay that you post his propaganda without comment as though he’s a reporter.
I mean, what possible angle could famous glibertarian Weigel have for reporting that anti-voucher actions by the Democrats started all of this, hmmm hmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
AA+ Bonds
Then again last time I called this out you’d posted a “column” of Weigel’s that was actually just Weigel transcribing propaganda from Joel Pollak, a swell guy who works full-time writing hit pieces for Andrew Breitbart, and you suggested that we Think About It . . . so I don’t know if you’ll bother to listen when I point out again what a bad idea it is to quote Weigel without explaining that he is a liar