More information keeps dribbling forward regarding the voter fraud crimes committed by O’Keefe’s Project Veritas , and it just keeps getting better and better:
A grieving New Hampshire widow said she was stunned to learn her beloved husband’s identity was used for a political gotcha — just 10 days after his death.
“That’s awful,” Rachel Groux said. “Why should they use his name? They shouldn’t use anybody’s name — alive or deceased.”
Activist filmmaker James O’Keefe secretly recorded video showing his operative using Roger Groux’s name and address to obtain a Republican ballot at Manchester polls Tuesday. The U.S. Navy veteran died Dec. 31 at an assisted living home. His family held funeral services Monday, his widow said. “Oh my God, I know what he would say, ‘Call the cops, call the police,’ ” Rachel Groux said.
City officials may have not received notification in time to remove Groux from voter lists, said Manchester City Clerk Matthew Normand.
So what did our intrepid investigators discover with their criminal little sting operation? That it might take ten days to get a deceased Navy veteran off the voting rolls. That’s so inconsequential that it would bore even John Fund, that little worm Hans von Sapovsky, and the other wingnut voter fraud hysterics.
Special Patrol Group
RULE OF LAW!
RULE OF LAW!
RULE OF LAW!
RULE OF LAW!
I really hope these a-holes get prosecuted for voter fraud, since, you know, they’ve admitted publicly that they’ve engaged in voter fraud.
Of course, I doubt that’ll happen because… aw, fuck it, it’s time to look into living on a tropical island with satellite TV, good food, good booze, and good cigars
clearly this is all ACORN’s doing.
That they can continue to get attention and rake in money while doing nothing of any worth whatsoever.
They got paid $50,000 for this little stunt.
Excuse me, Mr. Cole. The New York Times feels that you are dealing with way, way too many facts here. Can you at least add a sentence that begins: “Anonymous officials, however, believe….”
Nothing will come of it; I’ve visited a couple Winger sites (“she’s only 17 … 17”) that are crowing about the brilliance of this sting. These fuckers could give a shit about a dead former Navy person.
Hold up. Project Veritas? Isn’t there a douchebag troll here who goes by the name Veritas?
So, O’Keefe is trolling Balloon Juice?
Hopefully, that jail time is not quite as pleasant as their current worthless existences.
I don’t get it…in the US you don’t have to show ID when you go to vote? If this is the case then Okeefe simply proved the US is the dumbest country ever.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
To the reporter, I believe the correct term for O’Keefe is terrorist, not Activist. That’s the only definition for someone who is using criminal means to change people’s behavior.
@graves007: We have other means of verification, such as checking signatures. Not everybody has photo ID and it costs money.
“The dead are rising and they’re voting Republican!!”
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@graves007: No, because we have a history in this country of making voting hard to do. In the case of IDs we do things like make people take tests or pay or jump through hoops greater than it takes to buy a car to get one.
It’s beside the point to note that their behavior is shameful, dishonest, manipulative, illegal, etc. In the winger universe that’s all evidence of courage in the face of… well, whatever. Obama! Mooslim! ACORN!
In all seriousness, in the first election I worked we had a man in our voter application book that had been dead for over 13 years. His wife, my neighbor, pointed that out. I noted the “inactive voter” warnings on the application and informed her, “Well, if he does come in, he’d better bring two forms of I.D.”
The Illinois county** I work in uses your signature as your identification***, so these guys had best be master forgers or really lucky to pull it off here.
** Dead people still on the rolls? Bet you can’t guess which one!
***They have a scanned copy of the one with which you signed your voter registration form for comparison. Occasionally it gets awkward, say, when a very florid high school signature (with a circle “dotting” the i) has become a terse doctor’s scrawl, but usually there are easy signs.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@The Dangerman: LOL. You know he teaches ballet now, right?
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
or, we make it free and easy-to-file but shut down the only ID-granting office in town so people have to shlep to an understaffed joint with a 2 hour line.
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
I would consider trading Voter ID for making an Election Day a Holiday (or move it to a weekend)…
…if, and only if, the ID is free and readily available (i.e., don’t have to go wait in line at the DMV or similar).
So when is this slime-bucket gonna see some jail time ? He probably gets away with “stern” warning.
This O’Keefe is mentally ill or at least has a serious personality disorder, one evidently shared by the people who think he is a hero.
Like they’ll get in any trouble.
They tried the same shit in Maine recently as part of the no doubt national, co-ordinated campaign to block democrats from voting, or receiving government assistance.
Tried to scam their way into the free Maine healthcare program, but were denied, but secretly filmed anyways.
Then Lo and Behold a few months later the Teabag, 31% Mandate Governor LePage comes out with a radical plan to completely bankrupt the program – to save money and “stop fraud”.
It’s insidious and its happening everywhere and I no longer trust our authorities to stop it. We’ve crested the peak of corruption and our on the expressway down.
I’m surprised Murdoch hasn’t hired them yet — screwing around with the recently dead and their relatives is one of the prerequisites, isn’t it?
Because every other country on earth requires photo ID to vote, right? Sadly, no!
It’s worth noting that many countries, particularly those much smaller than the US and with much less immigration, maintain a centralized database and issue everyone an ID at the national level, so solutions that may work elsewhere aren’t necessarily right for the U.S. Many Americans, particularly elderly ones, have no photo ID and have a difficult time getting one.
I think everyone else but you gets this already, but these photo ID laws are pushed by Republicans not because of the nonexistent epidemic of people trying to vote under a false name, but because the people without photo ID who would get turned away at the polls largely belong to Democratic demographics.
Also, too, a conservative female blogger had O’Keefe in court recently, because he started sending her harassing emails after she backed out of one of his stings. She also implied that O’Keefe drugged her, because she passed out while O’Keefe was driving her home and later discovered that panties had been stolen from her luggage.
James O’Keefe — underpants gnome.
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
I just hope he makes enough to buy some new shirts; he never seemed to wear one that wasn’t ripped to shreds.
“So when is this slime-bucket gonna see some jail time ?”
Patience. He has the same rights as you, and the process takes some time.
He won’t get in any trouble and he won’t be charged. The NH House Speaker has already used this stunt to press for a new round of ‘Voter Fraud’ laws. They did that once and the Governor successfully vetoed the law. The republithugs in NH are now using this one to say how their laws are too liberal and they need to strengthen them but that they don’t want to do anything against O’Keefe.
We’re stuck with the sorry sack of shit until someone
beats the crap out of himphysically harms him in some manner in some future sting.
Ways of Dealing with This...
In Los Angeles County, dead voters can stay on the voter rolls for years, but at least in California a voter has to sign for their ballot so instances of fraud can potentially be caught if a signature doesn’t match up. One would think it would be impossible for someone to learn to forge the signatures of enough dead people to get away with such a trick, but then again it is not clear how often the election day signatures are audited to see that they match up sufficiently against the signature on file with the county clerk.
If only the GOP would be honest though that their zeal on voter fraud actually has nothing to do with voter fraud.
Then I simply lump these countries in the same pool of dumbass countries.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
What I love the most about the Republican voter fraud hysterics is that they never seem to have an issue with legitimate worries like the hacking of electronic voting machines.
Wonder if the non-profit operation basement office staff partied away the whole tax free $50,000….any left for bail?
OT: The Kerryfication of Mitt Romney continues…
@burnspbesq: Guess 3-strike rule doesn’t apply to white juvenile doods, huh ?
Last time I checked, the United States Attorney for the District of New Hampshire didn’t report to the Speaker of the New Hampshire House.
@TooManyJens: So a method of ‘verification’ is the handwriting analysis capability of a polling station worker? Sorry but are you serious?
I don’t like the rush to purge voter rolls that conservatives are now pushing because if we do that there are going to be mistakes in the other direction.
I’d rather err on the side of the honest voter, ie: take our time with culling voter rolls and rely on the fact that 99.99999 of people aren’t going to impersonate a dead voter. I think that makes more sense. If we go the other way, we’re (potentially) disenfranchising a person who is alive for that election where they’re wrongfully or mistakenly dropped from the rolls.
Is there even a death certificate issued in ten days? Can we at least wait for that? Call me crazy, but the thought of conservatives heading up the voter purge drive makes me nervous.
did the dead guy vote? or just an honorary blank space each election. (not unheard of actually)
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: egg.sack.lee. Typical rethugs’ tactic – create a poutrage among low-info cretins over trivial things while they loot, suppress and hoodwink the mass.
@graves007: Yes, I’m serious. Do you think that hiring an army of skilled forgers to go out and cast ballots in other peoples’ names is a likely or practical means of committing election fraud?
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Careful now. This might land you on The Daily Show for lack of civility.
@jprfrog: yes, and his parents are so proud.
@Hill Dweller: yeah, that was typical stewart’s both sides do it crappola.
He seems to have some special rights that have allowed him to get away with attempting to tap a US Senator’s phone.
If not, this would be his second felony and he’d could be looking at some serious time.
Did I say that?
We had this discussion on Tuesday. In case you missed it, I will recap.
Merely being arrested is not, in and of itself, a violation of the conditions of O’Keefe’s Louisiana probation. If he is convicted in New Hampshire, then he will do time for the crimes to which he pled guilty in Louisiana. That’s the way it works.
In addition, there is no Federal three-strikes rule. Previous convictions can form the basis for an upward adjustment under the sentencing guidelines, but that’s it. Even if there were a Federal three-strikes rule, the last time I checked, two was not the same thing as three.
I’d love to see a more streamlined and efficient means of voter identification and voter roll maintenance. Of course, from what we say in New Hampshire a few months back, the party in power isn’t actually concerned with that.
O’Keefe is rallying college students to remove the rights of college students to go and vote. Truly, the picture perfect definition of a fifth columnist self-hating wanker.
Thanks to jerks like him, and the putzes that put together other “voter reform” movements like the Diebold project, we’re going to be voting by rubbing two sticks together in the mud for the next 40 years because every attempt to modernize our incredibly archaic and backwards voting system results in a pile-on of fraud and abuse.
Assholes, the lot of them.
@amk: Juvenile?? He must be at least 27.
Only Goopers get that treatment. Henry Hyde’s extra marital affair was a ‘youthful indiscretion’ … he was 46 at the time.
“He seems to have some special rights that have allowed him to get away with attempting to tap a US Senator’s phone.”
In what bizarre parallel universe is pleading guilty the same as getting away?
@catclub: It was in adjective form.
Love the image. Furriners can’t take the steam. The eyes turn white like a poached fish, you know you’ve caught one.
It’s perfectly legal to vote in a Presidential primary at 17 (though it may vary from state to state).
When I registered to vote in 1992, I was 17 and voted in the Democratic primary.
Anyway, as long as I turned 18 before the first Tuesday in November, when the general election’s held, it was legal for me to vote at 17.
@AxelFoley: o’keefe, veritas, R_C, tunch, BOB, samarachan–they’re all dougj the trollmaster.
@burnspbesq: In what bizarre parallel world could a differently hued guy could get away with all the criminal ‘antics’ of this white frat boy ? Oh, that’s right, that world doesn’t exist.
@pragmatism: Is this the Unified Theory of Trolling? Is there a BJ troll named Higgs?
@MattF: it is now. i’m a real ‘murican. i like a single point of blame that fits my narrative, facts be damned.
Speaking of Breitbart’s smartypants associates, Dana Loesch thinks it’s just dandy to whiz on dead enemies, and would be happy to join them. Frealz.
The charge was reduced to a single misdmenor charge. It was only to that he pled.
What is the likelhood of it being reduced to a misdemeanor if a hippy or- lord help us- a “Black Panther” entered a US Senator’s office with the intent to wiretap?
@amk: It was such a misleading piece. They edited it so the journalist appeared to be calling all tea partiers ‘economic terrorists’, simply because she disagreed with their policies. In reality, her article was referring to the nihilists in the House that tried to default the government last summer during the debt ceiling fiasco.
@Hill Dweller: stewart is turning into the very msm cretins he mocks at. Pity his talented sidekicks like john oliver and wyat cenac have to play along.
What isn’t being said is the fact that the GOP wants a big government answer to the question of voter integrity.
Perhaps a Department of Homeland Voting where the voter gets to give an eye scan, blood test, fingerprints and a pat down by some big government functionary.
Then when that is in place and voting is now an all day affair, because the same people who brought us the long lines are the DMV are now running elections, they can then run on just how big, ungainly and intrusive government has become.
Or perhaps they’d be happy with purple finger thing that the Iraqis did. They seemed to love that.
@burnspbesq: previous arrests without convictions can also serve for upward adjustments. this guy is digging his own grave
You are either a new troll or a dumbass, doesn’t really matter which. I have been a poll worker for years in California. In order to register, you must show some form of ID. In order to vote, you have to identify yourself, not only by name, but also give your address. Since we have been working the polls over a number of elections, we already know a sizable number of the voters anyway.
What you are suggesting is that we disenfranchise a large number of citizens from voting. For instance, the blind couple who vote in almost every election in our precinct don’t drive, ergo, they don’t have a driver licsence. Why should they have to go to the DMV or some other place to obtain (possibly at some cost) and alternate form of ID? My father, a WWII vet is 91 and no longer drives. He does not have a DL. Why should he have to shag down to the DMV and secure an ID? He has been voting for 70 years, including several when he was getting his ass shot off to protect your freedom.
As explained in earlier posts, the entire boogey man of voter fraud is simply a Republican ruse to keep the elderly, the poor and students from legitimately casting their ballots. If that were not the case, why do so many of these restrictive voter ID laws specifically disqualify STUDENT PICTTURE ID? Is a picture ID issued by a college any less valid then one issued by the DMV?
Wrong, a quick look at O’Keefe’s history shows he has more rights than me, or any ordinary citizen. There’s no way I would have walked from wiretapping a US Senator’s office, or for trying to kidnap and imprison and videotape a right wing reporter on a boat tricked out with sex toys and handcuffs.
I’m surprised that a brother of a woman that O’Keefe has harrassed or attempted to harrass hasn’t kicked the shit out of him. I feel like doing it and I’m not related to any of these women.
Have they checked his basement lately?
Cris (without an H)
Has the unedited video been released? Because I thought we — and by we, I mean the NYT and CNN and whoever else — had learned our lesson to not give O’Keefe any attention until we had seen the unedited original footage used for his hit pieces.
O’Keefe’s colleagues Dana Loesch, Pam Geller & Breitbart, Inc.: Still the worst fucking people in the world.
Well now, justice is blind and all that…
Then again, there is the issue of stomping on a rather powerful interest’s toes – ie The State of New Hampshire.
Does NH have a baby RICO? Conspiracy to commit a felony?
@Palli: No, he never did come in. He was dropped from the book not long after – I don’t remember exactly when. It would have been something to see, though.
..and Cole being the clueless lemming is more than happy to give Okeefe more undeserved publicity over it which is the whole point of their stunt in the first place.
Cris (without an H)
And this is my problem with the whole Voter ID conversation. Why, when we propose requiring voter ID, do we not allow the County Clerk (who is responsible for registering you to vote) to issue valid ID? As it currently works, you get a card in the mail telling you your precinct and so on. But they don’t treat that as valid ID (at least not in my state.)
In short, if you can register to vote, the registration process should result in an ID you can use to vote. We shouldn’t require some unrelated third-party verification. Set it up that way, and I’m on board.
You know, was much infighting as there is here, we’ve really got to be on the same page, and tirelessly call these guys out on lies.
As detailed by Krugman.
As detailed by Jared Bernstein.
Like was said in the earlier thread, it’s up to us to call out these lies again and again and again and again, and get the press to report on it as well.
@Cris (without an H):
And as people beat the sidewalks getting registration cards filled out they need to lug around … what? Thanks.
Fucking ghouls. I hope they get some jail time.
Then again, despite the GOP, OR has vote by mail. We’re just hicks so…
@Ways of Dealing with This…:
How is it not clear? Determining whether election judges are comparing signatures should be easy; that’s part of what poll watchers do. In my Illinois county, the same one Jim C happens to work in, comparing your signature to the one on file is such an integral part of the process that I’ve never even heard of a judge failing to do it.
(And they fail to do a LOT of things. For years, the same two clueless old ladies tried to give me the wrong ballot; they had me living in the 5th district [then Emanuel’s] while my husband was in the 9th [Schakowsky’s]. Apparently, unbeknownst to us, the line ran right down the middle of our bed. Split precincts were just too much for these folks to take in, and it would take an average of 30 minutes of arguing to get the right ballot.)
Cris (without an H)
@Chuck Butcher: Lug around what they’re already lugging around. We consider the registrations they collect valid, don’t we? And those registrations go through the County Clerk. The County Clerk then needs to get the ID to that voter. I’m not saying I have the whole solution worked out, I’m just saying it can’t be any harder than what we’re doing now.
OT — Perry tried to call on a mannequin at a rally.
The Ancient Randonneur
Anyone ever notice the striking resemblance of O’Keefe to the other right wing terrorist Timothy McVeigh? Just asking …
@catclub: Yeah, but I bet she was a lot younger than that, so youthful indiscretion was involved.
Matthew Reid Krell
@Chuck Butcher: I think you misunderstand. The argument appears to be that submitting a valid registration form ought to result in being sent an item that satisfies whatever ID requirement is imposed. In short, whether you register at the county office, on the street, or at church or whatever, when the appropriate entity processes your registration, you are now qualified to vote – and if you have to present something in order to prove that qualification, registration gets you that something.
ETA: Cris beat me to it.
Do we have evidence that O’Keefe was personally in New Hampshire taking part in this plot? Even if he stayed home, theoretically he could be guilty of conspiracy, but that seems like a trickier charge to prove and I wouldn’t really expect a prosecution.
Well, O’Keefe is a lowlife scumbag and always will be. What really got me is shitheads like LePage and the NH state assembly trying to use this scam, this blindingly obvious scam, as an excuse to wail “See, Black Panther hippie communists are trying to take over our country! More voting barriers, NOW NOW NOW!” Either they’re all dumb as pig shit, or it’s a bigger scam than O’Keefe’s dumbass antics and a whole lot of teabagger scum is in on it. I don’t know which scenario would be worse, honestly.
Graf von Spakovsky’s second called and asked whether you you’d be up for giving him satisfaction in a duel, John Cole. It’s not that you called him a little worm, but goddamn, what use is an insult like this for his Hochgeboren’s livelihood if you get his name wrong.
@ChrisNYC: At long last he’s found his intellectual match.
@Cris (without an H):
So you’re proposing that County Clerks don’t have enough to do, they need to go to people’s houses and places of work in order to … what? Take their pictures? Make them come up with … what to document your concerns?
The goddam GOP has run multiple operations to root out voter fraud and come up empty. The criminal cases brought have damn near exclusivley been on GOP outfits for destroying Democratic registrations. Just for your information, federal law requires turning in all registrations collected, freaking period. If it says “Mickey Mouse” it has to be turned in. That is a registration card, the Clerk won’t issue on it and they do verify that you exist before issuing you your precinct card.
This is a manufactured issue. Try to wrap your head around that. The problem isn’t people voting who shouldn’t, it is people not goddam voting and particularly those not registered to do so. People get all “oooh cool” about a 70% turnout – which does not include unregistered citizens which would skew that number badly. Oddly enough, if you can get them registered some of them actually start to pay attention to politics.
But he’s trying to prevent voter fraud! Just like he was trying to get that reporter on his boat to prevent rape.
@Matthew Reid Krell:
What in the hell is it that you think they do?
Goddam GOP sucks enough oxygen out of the world that brain cells die.
For some reason “veritas” is consider cool as hell by right wingers. Guess cuz it’s all Latin and shit.
This is ‘Organized Crime’. The perps probably crossed state lines so Federal statutes will apply. They are all going down.
They showed some of the video on the local evening news (CBS – WCAX) in Vermont and said that people had tried to vote illegally but were caught, and they gave the credit to catching them to Project Veritas.
My head nearly exploded.
The one thing good about sending email to newscasters in a small market like this is they answer you directly, and generally make even bigger asses of themselves in being snippy and trying to change the subject. I always send to the person whose mouth it came out of and to the head of the news dept. Sometimes they simultaneously give different excuses. I then forward them to each other.
One time Marselis said telling the whole story was unpatriotic. Damn I wish I kept those old emails, they’d go down well with the current NYT silliness. It was when they had that handpicked bunch of Army publicists do a live from Irag Q&A (all unscripted of course) with Bush.
Yer liberal media at work.
My Truth Hurts
Fixed your quote.
Just when you think you have seen it all.
It isn’t as though there isn’t… ummmm… evidence?
@shortstop: having voted in this hypothetical county for years, let me say that the poll watchers are also from both parties so that any disturbance is observed by all interested parties so to speak. I have never worried about voting as the wrong person.
@MattF: One day we WILL capture the Higgs Trollon.
Something about this story didn’t make sense to me.
If O’Keefe & co. are trying to sting polling places to show how easy it is to commit voter fraud, why would they do that during a GOP primary?
Are they trying to say that people who vote for Republicans would be willing to commit fraud?
@Svensker: And surely because the use of the term ‘veritas’ by paid professional liars amuses them to no end.
Cris (without an H)
Attention whores gotta go where the attention is
pseudonymous in nc
And the problem, in terms of criminal activity, is voter suppression, which is low-risk and high-reward. In person vote fraud is high-risk and low-reward, as O’Queef has now discovered. He’s not even smart enough to rig elections the tried-and-true GOP way.
And because they lack venustatis, utilitatis, firmitatis and decorum
Seriously. Fuck that sanctimonious asshole with the same pitchfork I’ve been saving for Glenn Greenwald.
Oh, come on, Burnsie. Are you seriously going to argue that anyone would get probation for attempting to bug a senator’s phone? Like if I tried it tomorrow, I’d get the same sentence?
pseudonymous in nc
And once again: the provision of fundamental identity documents in the US, particularly for older people, is shoddy. Not only do you have the conflation of the drivers license with state ID, but you have a history of discrimination in county-based birth registration. Home births with midwives and no official record are part of living memory in the US, particularly in rural areas.
The one non-crazy thing you can take away from the Birther charade is that identity isn’t just about pieces of paper, but about the trust you have in them, and if you decide that the documents aren’t to be trusted, there’s no convincing you.
The GOP hates OR vote by mail, not dislikes it – hates it – because it makes the act of voting pretty easy and gives time to look at voter guides while voting. They’ve tried for years to discredit it, show fraud, etc, etc … GOPer talking point. Nothing… goddam NADA.
People act as though there isn’t data around about them, as though the State has no way to take a look at you. You are so many multiples of times more likely to have a problem thanks to a recent move, etc than you are to illegally vote that it isn’t amusing in the least – and that is minus the bullshit voter suppression efforts.
You don’t give up an inch by giving the GOPer cretins something – you give it all up on this issue. There are a couple bars to voting, age and citizenship and maybe felonies. Which of these has one of you violated? I want to tear my hair out by the roots when the real issue is that this nation doesn’t actively participate in its governance.
Primaries are the one time in a two Party system that you get to set the direction of the “side” that supposedly reflects your interests and yet turn out rates blow amongst registered voters much less citizenry. Why the hell do you think we get what we get as pols and it is hard to register people? They don’t care – it doesn’t matter – they’re all the same. There is some accuracy in those complaints but the cure is goddam voting not playing stupid games with those who’d bar it.
@KG: I agree. Advocacy journalism has no place in an advocacy blog run by opinionated bipolar maniacs.
For example, this poor man whose ID was stolen for the demonstration of how easy voter fraud was to commit (and that was tragically foiled by being discovered, investigated, and whole gang of loons rounded up, almost immediately). Was he really deceased or was he not? Opinions may differ about that. Many people who are not dead are also not seen walking around town for ten days, they go on vacation, have unexpected business out of town, etc.
I hope the NYT is more careful in its coverage of this story than this irresponsible blog, rife with speculation.
And even if these vicious nincompoops did what they did, was it really voter fraud? They are conservatives and say that they had good intentions, so they should get a ‘get of jail free card’, and any ‘real’ rule of law would let them off. What about that disputed ‘fact’. I do not think that has been given adequate weight in Mr. Cole’s ‘coverage of ‘this’ ‘story”.’
I can’t really explain why I’m enjoying muttering this out loud over and over. It must be the coffee.
When all else fails, play the race card?
Desperate and despicable.
You too? I expect this crap from amk, but I know you know better.
au contrair, it was the frat boy card, a joker in the deck of life and always worth playing if available.
If the guardians of our once honorable fourth estate had an INKLING of self awareness, they’d be crying in their beers about how they aided and abetted this jackass into fleecing us all because they didn’t ahem *****FACT CHECK***** (glares at NYT) and let this fucker smear and destroy one of the best institutions we had for empowering people in the margins to take part in our electoral process.
The more I hear about this douchewhistle, the less I care about him, and the more I hate our fucking media.
A grifter’s gotta grift. Fuck em. What our media did in response was far worse.
Statistics be damned and all that, eh?
Income, connections, race don’t play in “justice.” OK
Construction contractors poll in the bottom of regard with the public, yeah – because there are some problem kids and the impact is real big. Lawyers…
I’ve gotten used to it, partly because I don’t stand athwart reality screaming “Stop being mean to…”
@shortstop: It is worse even that what I typed. How do we even know that there was an attempt at voter fraud?
If people here would think about it for a minute rather than jumping into childish knee jerk hack paleoliberal bigotry, they would be more careful.
It may have been a mistake, and the whole story may be a panicked improvisation very understandably invented by this poor white person understandably startled and terrified that the police were bothering him.
If people here would think about for just one damn minute, they would note that everyone dies eventually. So, if you wandered into a polling place and made a simple mistake like saying someone elses name rather than your own, as time goes by, the probability of uttering a deceased person’s name goes to one, by strict geometrical logic.
And then the police had the swank, the gall, the nerve, an uppitiness to bother a white person about voting fraud. This poor person obviously made it all up.
What I expect now, if this miserable lefty blog wants to keep any shreds of its reputation, is a long anguished essay on the agonies of determining what are the disputed “facts”.
Yes. Same offense, same circumstances, same number under the sentencing guidelines. The fact that y’all choose to be ignorant doesn’t change the facts.
“Veritas” means “Truth”. “Pravda” means “Truth” as well. It’s complete Newspeak.
Oh, come on. The “statistics” you’re so suddenly fond of don’t cover the sort of white-collar crimes that we’re talking about here. And I suspect you know that.
If that’s your A game, the bench is over there.
Okay, just going by readily available info found through a simple internet search, and average of about 6800 people die in the US every day. If the voting franchise were shrunk back down to just white men, like these assholes seem to believe is a fantastic idea, you still wouldn’t be able to find enough dead people on the voting rolls to seriously impact most federal and state elections. It’s that simple to refute their whole little project. Idiots. Assholes.
@jl: I’m not sure if you’re being snarky, or if you’re being stupid.
That’s a real pretty comment geg6. Ugly and loaded with sexual violence imagery. Were you one of the folks beating on Greenwald for the nun reference?
You know what, I’ll not pretend that unequal results don’t happen in my industry, not that I haven’t done everything I can to not be one of the malefactors.
If you’re going to pretend that there are equal outcomes under the law, then… I don’t know, maybe you’re one of those lawyers that deserves the shit. You know as well as I do that humans are involved and petending that the black letter of law ensures equal outcomes is horseshit. It isn’t where charges are made, it isn’t in what is pled to is, it isn’t to what the sentence is. I don’t like non-discretionary efforts in regard to the law because there is more involved than simple allows for – but to pretend that unequal results as an outcome of income, race, and connections isn’t a reality would be the same as me pretending the building codes ensure quality work.
Because asking for a ballot using another person’s name is voter fraud.
Am I misreading what you were trying to say, or are you really stupid?
@Angry Egilsson: Glenn Greenwald is a privileged white asshole. And a liar. I hope he chokes on a pretzel.
Is that better, or now are you going to clutch pearls over my lack of civility?
Seriously? You’re a lawyer, and you are seriously trying to argue that everyone gets equal treatment under the law, regardless of socio-economic standing?
You are for real about this?
I may be really stupid, but my previous comment was not serious, at least, not to be taken seriously at a place like BJ comment section.
But, maybe I could get it printed in the NYT, with a sincere, defensive, and convoluted reply from the public editor?
Edit: can I get nominated for the annual DougJ spoof troll award for that comment? Please remember when the time comes.
@jl: Win for the NYT dig.
@burnspbesq: Suggesting that a black guy would have been treated more harshly for committing the same offense than a middle-class white guy may be speculative, and it may be something you disagree with, but it’s hardly “playing the race card.” Calling it “desperate and despicable” is just plain bizarre.
You may think there is no racism in certain areas of life, such as the prosecution of white-collar crimes. Others may disagree. Their disagreement is not “playing the race card,” it’s just a disagreement.
I tend to defend the justice system myself, but you’re going a bit overboard.
That’s snark so pure it should have a warning label.
There’s a bit of understatement…
@Chuck Butcher: come on now.
We *know* burn is being fair here.
There’s nothing about the racial makeup of our prison systems, our drug sentencing laws, or our capital punishment system that indicates any unfairness. At all. All completely fair. The reason blacks are in prison more is because they are criminals. The reason they go to jail for years longer than whites for using essentially the same drug, is because white people snort with class! The reason that they are executed far more often than white folk is because they deserve it! How is this unfair?
burn has a point, dontcha know.
I’ll leave the determination of this post as snark as an exercise for the reader.
@Calouste: You can also get pistol grips with “Veritas” on them, something regarding the Boondock Saints, I think. It’s an extension of the “I wish I were a tough guy” psychosis that RW’s have.
@jl: I thought it was funny.
If you were also one of the people beating on Greenwald for the nun reference, then you are hypocrite in addition to being a flat-out racist.
@Angry Egilsson: Yes. Really.
Also fuck is a general term. Fuck him! Fuck her! Fuck you!
Is *not* the same as Rape him! Rape her! Rape you!
Maybe nuance just isn’t your thing. Fuck is a casual term. Rape is not.
Also nun-rape actually happens. All the *fucking* time (i did it again, oops!)
AND GG explicitly DENIED THE CLAIM THAT IS WAS A METAPHOR. When explicitly confronted about it – he doubled down and claimed it was a hypothetical possibility. Not. the. same. thing. as what you are arguing.
You’re wrong. Continually arguing along these same lines will just confirm that you are stupid as well. Take Mark Twain’s advice (or lincoln’s depending on who you ask) and STFU.
Here’s what geg6 said:
Are you still defending your comment, or chosing a strategic retreat?
I spoke to this over at my place:
Late to the party, but…I went back and looked at the slimy little video O’Queef made…they document 11 voter impersonations, plus we know there was one more where the guy got caught red-handed because the poll worker had known the dead guy. So, out of those 12 instances of fraud, we know – thanks to the video – the date 11 of them died. Out of those 11, over 1/3 – 4 individuals – had been dead for 10 days. Over 1/2 – 7 individuals – had died less than a month before election day. Almost 90% – 9 out of the 11 – had died less than 6 weeks before election day. 100% – all 11 – had been dead for less than 3 months. And in 1 attempt of 12, the guy got caught red-handed, meaning there was at least an 8.5% chance of getting busted, flat-out.
Which indicates that the state is doing a good job of purging the rolls on an ongoing basis. O’Queef and his moron minions couldn’t impersonate people dead for longer, because they had already been purged. In order to find dead people to impersonate, they had to comb the obituaries and then buy lists of registered voters to find those who had not yet been purged; they managed to find 12 of them. For the low, low cost of $50,000. That’s only $4,545 per ballot successfully attained through fraud! And they got caught 1/12th of the time.
They actually did a really great job of demonstrating why rwing fantasies about voter fraud – and the “danger” to free and fair elections – are so implausible.
It’s a low-brow comment for sure. Not the same as nun rape, even more sure. And not at all like what happened with GG.
your stupid tirade about this leads me to want to recycle it against you, for your tired sanctimonious crap as well.
Edit: Shorter me, I think I’ll go skullfuck a kitten now.
I think you are missing the more likely possibility: at the time, the dead person was probably inhabiting the husk that appeared to attempt to vote. There are many reports- from places populated by the dusky races- of spirits rattling around for some time after death, and occasionally occupying the body of an innocent. I’m told on good authority that it is nearly an every day event in deepest Thibet, for example.
The instruments of the state only jumped to the conclusion that there was something untoward going on because the body chosen was a lithe and attractive white one. If it had been a squatty squinty-eyed shaven-headed one that could chant like the gargling of a bathroom drain the poll watchers would have doubtless immediately realized what was really going on. They then would have quietly checked the regulations to determine whether the spirits of the deceased could vote if occupying a living body. If the answer was no, the spirit would have been informed politely by the prostrate poll watchers, before all asked for his blessing.
This is a shocking example of liberal prejudice against those voting while white (and dead).
I wrote 139 an hour or more ago but our internet was down so it just posted.
I see that intervening discussion may have spoiled it.
Is it the reuse to which you object?
If so I’m with you. These days one should use a fresh rusty pitchfork, or if you lack the means, sterilize your pitchfork between times.
Dude, you live in a world that doesn’t exist where I live. One where everyone is treated fairly by the justice system and all defendants get the same breaks or punishments, regardless of race, color, creed, gender, sexual orientation or national origin.
Is this place, by any chance, anywhere near the United States in case I decide to move?
Oh, grow up. People like you make me wish I actually had a rusty pitchfork just so I could use it on you.
@kay: Kay, you really are one of the best things about this blog. You don’t post for sake of trying to outsnark someone else and you always bring to the table your knowledge of the political processes, gleaned from actually working in them, along with great good sense and kindness.
You always educate and cause me to think.
Love it Love it Love it…
Your interesting reporting is causing a kerfluffle!
That’s fine geg6, this will help anyone understand the sort of person you are.
Or at least between tines.
At some point, if you have a shred of intellectual integrity, you’ll have to acknowledge that you can’t defend geg6, and your use of a racist crack was also ridiculous (if not more ridiculous).
My opinion of you is very low, and I imagine you don’t care, but you may care about the opinion of other people, and all they will see is profanity and venom from you and the people you chose to defend. There’s a clique of posters like you now, and it’s a real drag.
It’s pretty ironic how you chose to express yourself in a thread labeled “All Class, These Guys”.
Odie Hugh Manatee
You’re not aware of the history of pitchforks and BJ, are ya? Get back to me when geg6 uses that pitchfork.
Rape happens, pitchfork rape doesn’t.
Your straw is stale and limp, try again.
I’m not surprised that you would chose to comment here Odie. You are part of that ugly pack that races around hurling profanities on people, so it’s natural that you would rally to defend geg6’s comment. I believe it’s because you are incapable of expressing yourself in other way. Lord knows you have never proven otherwise.
@Angry Egilsson: seems you’re the only one crying in your beer. About all these big meanie posters, and how they have no class.
Which kind of necessitates me asking the inevitable question (wait for it!): What are you doing here other than to troll or whine?
Nobody cares that you got all butt hurt. Take your ball and go home already. It’s pretty clear nobody wants to play with you today.
PS: When someone *else* especially my Mixtec roomie, or my cholo buddies, or my white friends, or my black friends – or anyone (other than you) decides to call me out for being racist cuz I call someone a privileged white asshole. I’ll let you know. Identifying people who inform their views through their upbringing (which is why I think *white* was relevant) as the race with which they clearly are is not racist. My friends are white, black, mexican, etc. They have no problem with that. And neither do I. And from the looks of things, neither does anybody on this thread.
So take your sanctimonious butthurt, roll it into a tight little tube, and go fuck yourself with it. Is that clear enough for you?
@burnspbesq: spoken like a true stupid fratboy.
also too. Angry Black lady would be a racist by your own idiot logic
@burnspbesq: If you’re supposed to be a lawyer, you’re being an idiot to say that colour does not apply in issues of sentencing.
Thanks for proving my point, again.
@Angry Egilsson: Your point seems to be that you are a sanctimonious idiot. A point which you made over and over on this thread. And you really didn’t need my help to make it, but I’m always glad to lend a hand.
Let’s make a “Greatest Hits” tape. From just this thread we get:
I’m probably missing a lot.