What a jackass:
An elderly couple have fled their Sanford, Fla., home — at least temporarily — after their address was wrongly spread on Twitter as belonging to George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, Orlando Sentinel reports.
The 70-year-old woman, a school cafeteria worker, and her 72-year-old husband have moved into a hotel after getting hate mail and unwanted visitors, their son, Chip Humble, tells the newspaper.
The Smoking Gun reports that the address was retweeted by director Spike Lee to his 240,000 followers. CNN reports that Lee has since taken it down from his Twitter site.
The logical reaction to the murder of Trayvon Martin is to work to scale back vigilante “justice,” not to encourage it and cause more harm to innocents. Asshole. This is the kind of stuff that Malkin and the wingnuts do.
Violet
Cue Bobo and The Mustache of Understanding: Both sides do it.
pragmatism
someday twitter may replace booze as the quintessential bad decision enhancer.
Brian S
You’d think that being a celebrity would wake Lee up (among others–he wasn’t the only one to tweet the wrong address) to the dangers of putting personal info out there on the web. Stupid.
Comrade Mary
Jesus fucking Christ. I can’t see any apology from Lee yet: do you? Fucking credulous, vicious, STOOPID piece of shit.
Comrade Mary
Really, what an asshole.
Violet
@Brian S:
Has anyone tweeted Spike Lee’s address or other personal info as a response?
Spaghetti Lee
Way to give the wingnuts years of new material, Spike. Even if it was Zimmerman’s house that’s something you don’t fucking do.
JPL
@Violet: Why? He can afford security folk.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
re: Lee = jackass, that would be correct.
Unfortunate name, that, for this particular case.
Steve in DC
The stupid started when Sharpton and Jackson who have been involved in some stupid ass shit before got involved. Then the 10k bounty on his head by the new Black Panthers. Now this shit.
This sort of stuff needs to stop. Vigilante justice and actions are always stupid. This is making it worse, ditto with the angry mob mentality of others.
Let the fucking feds handle it and give them time.
Jeff Spender
I still respect the work of Spike Lee, just like I respect the work of Frank Miller or Orson Scott Card (these last two are fuckin’ insane).
I am, to be sure, disappointed with Spike Lee. I think it was bound to happen, given the issues that surround this tragedy.
I’ll still brag about how he was at my U of M commencement ceremony.
kc
That would be a douchey thing to do even if he got the right Zimmerman.
Litlebritdifrnt
What with Spike Lee and the New Black Panthers they are really giving the right wing nut jobs fucking years of material. Don’t they realize how destructive all this is? I mean really, Sean Hannity said New Black Panthers so many times today that if it had been a drinking game I would have been comatose by 5pm.
These morons really do not understand how bad they are for the cause. What was that line from The Abyss “Hippi, stay off my side”.
Comrade Mary
@kc: Absolutely.
Violet
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Limbaugh did the same thing. This kind of crap is the gift that keeps on giving for the wingnuts.
Mouse Tolliver
Related: Last night Lawrence O’Donnell left a smoking crater where Joe Oliver’s shaky credibility used to be.
__
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/lawrence-odonnell-and-charles-blow-give-george-zimmerman-pal-joe-oliver-epic-grilling/
__
What we learned from Oliver’s interrogation:
1) He’s really not that close to Zimmerman.
2) He mainly knows Zimmerman from work.
3) He quit his job to become a full time Zimmerman apologist, which is really strange given point number 1.
4) He hasn’t seen Zimmerman since one week before the shooting, casting doubt on his description of Zimmerman’s demeanor and physical injuries.
__
Why the fuck has Oliver been on every network talking about the case when he was nowhere near the crime scene and hasn’t seen the shooter in over a month?
David Koch
@Litlebritdifrnt:
This happens all the time in the blogosphere.
j
And what is Spike Lee’s address?
I’m sure he would like that published.
HEY SPIKE…
“DO THE RIGHT – WING THING”
Sound familiar?
You asshole.
Thoughtcrime
What was that you were saying about Non-Cognitive Elites?
The Ancient Randonneur
The real wingnut ammo is coming when someone kills Zimmerman (and it will happen) and turns him into a martyr.
lacp
@Comrade Mary: Fuck the apology – a correction is the first order of business.
Steve in DC
@David
What “cause”? Sharpton and Jackson are grade A race baiters that have always been out to build their own brand and presence. Spike Lee has made a habit of trotting himself out whenever problems happen as well as an arbitrator of justice. The New Black Panthers are fuckwits as well mainly concerned about themselves.
Their cause is always self promotion, period. They should be ignored and they should shut the fuck up.
Anya
That’s disappointing. I think twitter is the worst thing that happened to our discourse, politics or otherwise.
Also, too, Spike Lee should pay for the two victims’ hotel costs. The only way he can make up for this stupidity.
gaz
Spike Lee is an idiot. But he’s a rich idiot.
Here’s to the old couple winning a nice lawsuit and getting themselves a new buick
=)
LanceThruster
Last night, Jon Stewart mentioned just how unhelpful it was for the “New Black Panthers” to offer a $10,000 bounty for the apprehension (kidnapping?) of Mr. Zimmerman.
I don’t know if Lee should know better or not, but it was certainly a boneheaded move.
Violet
This whole vigilante thing is making me feel a bit sorry for Zimmerman and I find what happened to Trayvon Martin absolutely abhorrent.
schlagle
Geez, now I do want to know the address so I can send them some nice flowers or something. What a terrible thing to happen to anyone. Can we do something nice for them and say “Sorry that some people are moronic assholes?” That’s something the wingers would never do.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
You know, Spike did a very stupid thing.
But do you folks have any idea how black folks feel about this incident, on top of all the others for so many years?
Yes, Spike did a very stupid thing. But you guys should seriously consider how “the black community” is reacting to this situation, here in this Year Of Our Lord 2012. Most of us know Trayvon. He’s our son, our grandson, our nephew, our baby brother… and the police didn’t even treat his death– his murder— like it was actually a fucking homicide.
The humanity of black people has been denied once again, and in a particularly egregious way.
j
Here’s one of his “LEEV MEEEE A LLLOOOONNNE” BS “answers”
C&P:
Spike Lee @SpikeLee
Reply
Retweet
Favorite
· Open
Wake Up. DJ Speeezzzy Leeezzzy On The Wheels Of Steel. On Repeat Today-ONE IS THE LONIEST NUMBER By Three Dog Night.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK, it’s me now.
Either he wanted to say “Looniest” or he feels as if he should get the ‘L’ out of this situation.
Violet
@JPL:
Security or not, having his address and/or phone(s) number(s) tweeted all over the place would be somewhat inconvenient at least and perhaps somewhat scary. Or maybe someone should tweet the address of a relative of his who doesn’t have security.
Note: I’m not advocating anything of the sort. I’m just kind of surprised it hasn’t happened yet.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
@Steve in DC: Oh, and fuck you, Steve, you overprivileged melanin challenged dipshit. Damn near the only thing that brings attention to the continual assault on the humanity black people in this fucking country is because of people like Al Sharpton.
__
So FUCK the fuck OFF.
Jack Burton
@Steve in DC: Right on cue, here is Steve in DC, (Who was in blame the victim mode from the jump)finally getting “validation” that the true racists are these “race baiters”. Hey genius, if not for Sharpton and Jackson, this would not even be on the radar. Jackass. And as Det. Renko states above, this may be a little different for us of a darker hue, not some ideological scorecard to check off as we score points.
Ben Cisco
@Mouse Tolliver:
Because the latinum don’t earn itself, that’s why. SURE that dude must have a screw loose himself. OF COURSE what he’s doing makes not one lick of sense. YES, any SANE person asks himself the same question you just did. But these are VILLAGERS we’re talking about, and this cat is pimping the Villager-approved line. He might as well be John Fucking McCain as far as they are concerned.
John O
This was stupid of Spike, and destructive, and all around just generally heinous, but I’m guessing I of pasty whiteness might not be so cool and detached about this were I melanin-enhanced.
The boy was hunted down and murdered for being black.
Steve in DC
Stikes and stones Ivan and sticks and stones. Sharpton is a sack of shit and has done some henious shit in the past. Having him as the face of “humanity of black people” is as stupid has having Limbaugh as the “humanity of white people”.
Sharpton isn’t productive at all. Anytime the right wing wants to club black people over the head fools like Sharpton, Jackson, and Spike Lee give them and never ending reel of material to trot through.
Sharpton’s great as a punching bag and Sharpton’s great for Sharpton, that’s about it.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mouse Tolliver:
The answer to all this is cable news. They need topical material, right now, and they don’t have any time to vet it, but there are ratings to be had right this instant whether the person they put on screen is legit or not, because credibility does not, I repeat, not result in profit center good times. The important thing is to entertain the audience they’re selling to their advertisers.
__
On edit: yeah, pretty much what The Emissary of the Prophets said above.
John O
@Steve in DC:
Have you never been wrong, or stupid? I’m just curious, since I’ve been both, typically in highly emotionally charged circumstances.
Villago Delenda Est
@Ivan Ivanovich Renko:
__
__
Alas, this is heartbreakingly true, and absolutely on target.
jrg
Not saying Zimmerman shouldn’t be tried, but this whole thing has a Duke Lacrosse feel.
Jibeaux
Spike should sponsor them a nice vacation somewhere far from Florida. That’s a grade A jackass move.
Frankensteinbeck
@Ivan Ivanovich Renko:
See, I was wondering about that. I think Spike Lee and the New Black Panther’s actions here are both counterproductive and morally abhorrent. I wouldn’t want to even imply I consider them excusable.
At the same time, I’ve never seen this kind of throwing in. It makes me wonder if blacks across the country are pissed at this incident beyond any other I’ve seen in my lifetime. I wouldn’t blame them (you?). It’s not that far from lynching being legal again.
lamh35
Funny, this whole case with Trayvon Martin happened Feb 26th. but it’s been circulating on Black radio of which Sharpton is a member since before the lovely white folks like certain commenters on this thread even new how to spell Trayvon Martin’s first freakin’ name.
It’s actually thanks to people like Al Sharpton and other “race-baiters” who the parents of Trayvon Martin went to because their story was NOT getting out of local news, but they knew that they needed someone to help them make this story more than just a local matter, so that maybe they could get justice.
Steve in DC
@John O
I’m not a public quasi celeb and political joke who trots himself out to speak for a whole swath of people, is constantly wrong, and then stirs up shit for his own brand to sucker money from fools. Sharpton is.
There have been multiple people that have spoken out about this, and other incidents, in level headed and productive manners and not jumped off the cliff. Sharpton is not one of them, and that’s a problem.
If we are going off of what black people have spoken about for this tragedy, there is Harris Perry, Coates, and a slew of others that have been very on point and educational about this. Yet as usual, fuck heads like Sharpton, Jackson, and now Lee have turned this into a right vs left, and black vs white issue and dominate the news.
If the bomb hurlers would shut the fuck up, we could be talking about things in a better way, but they won’t.
So instead of a teaching moment and trying to fix things, we have Sharpton and Jackson demanding heads and whipping up a mob, a bounty out on the guys head, and now Lee tweeting the wrong address, and you guys wonder how Fox get’s it’s ammunition on racial items? Fuck, those fools loaded the gun and handed it to them.
Felanius Kootea
@jrg: In what way? Did Zimmerman deny shooting Trayvon? Shouldn’t there at least be a cursory investigation when an unarmed teenager is killed? Or are you saying we should uncritically accept the say-so of his killer and ignore the fact that police told him not to follow the teen?
Steve in DC
@jrg
If Sharpton is involved you can bet your ass it will turn into that sort of fiasco.
Darkrose
@Ivan Ivanovich Renko: I’m not sure non-black folks can really understand how personal this is. Even beyond the idea that Treyvon could have been my cousin or brother or nephew, it’s reminded me that nothing I do will ever be good enough. Doesn’t matter if I work hard in school, get decent grades, and mind my own business; when something goes down, the only thing that matters is the color of my skin, and if the narrative doesn’t fit, then it will get twisted until it does. Talk about the Kobayashi fucking Maru.
Jay in Oregon
Zimmermann was a racist fuckwit who stalked, shot and killed an innocent kid. He should have been arrested on the spot. If the Florida police encouraged Zimmermann to be a vigilante or want to look the other way, then they need to be held accountable too; fired, sued, whatever it takes.
__
Encouraging vigilante behavior—whether it’s the New Black Panthers or Spike Lee—to injure or kill Zimmermann makes the problem worse. The neo-Nazis and white supremacists assholes who get their rocks off fantasizing about a race war are PRAYING that something like that happens.
__
All that will happen if Zimmermman is killed by another vigilante is that the next racist fuckwit that has delusions of being a cop (or Batman) will be more heavily-armed and more prone to shoot first and ask questions later. And he’ll have friends.
ruemara
I hate stupid people. This is insanely stupid and Spike Lee owes this couple an apology. And a few million.
jrg
@Felanius Kootea: No. Someone is dead. There should be a trial. Not a fucking zoo.
Brian
These stupid fucking people. Spike Lee, the panthers and the whole lot of them. They do more damage to their own cause then good.
Nothing like having the complete moral upper hand and losing it over your own arrogance.
SuzyQ
I can’t believe Spike did this. And it was the wrong address? It does give the nutjobs on the right more ammo (no pun intended) than they need. Can’t recall the comedian, so I’ll paraphrase, “it wasn’t right, but I do understand!” And then you have the BPP with their bounty……and quite frankly, I’m scared of what MAY happen if justice is denied. Maybe I’m just paranoid, but I don’t. like where this is heading.
schlmizel
Don’t worry, the next time Malkin or one of those losers sets the flying monkeys loose you will hear how this is proof both sides do it.
schlmizel
Don’t worry, the next time Malkin or one of those losers sets the flying monkeys loose you will hear how this is proof both sides do it.
John O
@Steve in DC:
As human beings, on any number of issues, it has been my observation that only the “bomb throwers” move the much-mocked Overton Window. Alienation is part of the process.
But mostly my point was that if you were black, you might not be so sane about this. I guess I agree with you in principle, but don’t share the lack of empathy.
ItAintEazy
@Steve in DC:
So only listen to black people you approve of?
Okay, gotcha.
Felanius Kootea
@jrg: Let me put it a different way: there may never be a trial because the state law may just allow Zimmerman to escape one. And deep down, many black people fear that Florida just found a backdoor way to legalize lynching. That doesn’t have to make sense to you right now.
Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin on February 26. It’s now March 28. Please try to understand why some feel that the more time goes by, the less likely he is to be prosecuted for anything. And it isn’t a completely irrational fear – there are others who have gotten away with shooting someone under Florida’s stand your ground law and never faced a day in court.
Amir Khalid
@Steve in DC:
I am not aware that Al Sharpton has inserted himself into the Trayvon Martin case, if at all — other than as a commentator. Or Jesse Jackson, either. Maybe you could enlighten me.
Raven
@Amir Khalid: Don’t bother, this knucklehead just wants to hear himself run off at the mouth.
Dulcie
@Darkrose: THIS. I cannot express strongly enough how much I agree with everything you said in your post.
It’s not just me, living my life, doing the right thing. It means that my nieces and nephews lives don’t matter either, after everything we as a people have been through.
Your post made me cry.
Brian S
@Steve in DC: So instead of a teaching moment and trying to fix things, we have Sharpton and Jackson demanding heads and whipping up a mob, a bounty out on the guys head, and now Lee tweeting the wrong address, and you guys wonder how Fox get’s it’s ammunition on racial items?
You know, if you deserved the benefit of the doubt, I would point out that it sounds like you’re laying this all on Sharptn, Jackson and Lee. But you’ve already proven yourself a fuckwit on this thread multiple times so I’m going to suggest that your doing it deliberately, that you’re conflating the New Black Panthers, who would rival any gang that couldn’t shoot straight for sheer incompetence, with Sharpton and Jackson and Lee. And while Sharpton was indeed involved in some pretty heinous shit once upon a time, it was quite some time ago. He’s been a solid citizen for a while now, and you’re basically leaning on right-wing tropes in an attempt to get your ya-yas out.
Tonal Crow
This is the kind of thing I expect from teabaggers. It’s wrong, wrong, and, oh yeah, wrong. You don’t defeat Orcs by becoming one.
Steve in DC
@John O
You miss the point. Many people have been sane, rational, and well spoken about this mess. Sharpton, Lee, and others, have been anything but. They aren’t helping anything but their own personal brand here.
We have a tragedy and then we have the usual ambulance chasers puffing themselves up like peacocks for their own personal brand and in the process setting the stage for another tragedy to happen and make things even worse.
Raven
@Brian S: But he gets plenty of attention here so he’s got that going for him.
ItAintEazy
@Darkrose: Didn’t you hear? Martin’s school records were leaked, and it turns out he was suspended 3 times, making him an actual thug!
Yep, if there was anyone who needed to be executed in cold blood, it’s gotta be a kid who drew graffiti on the school locker.
Steve in DC
@Brain
Sharpton is not a lawyer and is already throwing around legal terms. He’s parading on TV and getting his “look at me” on all over again. He’s making the situation worse and jumping to stupid assumptions.
The last time we saw the Sharpton and Jackson “we just make shit up and stir shit up” clown show was the lacross incident, and look how that turned out.
What sucks is that… there are other people not doing that and being better, but as usual Sharpton has to be the face of things and has to be out in front, facts, reality, civility, and legal issues be damned!
AA+ Bonds
LOL
John O
@Steve in DC:
I do not miss the point. I accept that these people will be with us always, on both sides, and that their effectiveness or lack thereof will be determined in the marketplace of ideas and ability to express them.
It is emotion that bends the arc of history towards justice.
jrg
@Felanius Kootea: I’d like to know more about why Zimmerman hasn’t been prosecuted yet… But I’ve had enough people fuck with me for no reason at all, (other than being a white boy) to not buy into the assertion that Martin was just walking home, eating skittles.
That said, it also sounds to me like Zimmerman provoked him, despite what the dispatcher told him to do. The whole story stinks of bullshit.
ItAintEazy
Actually, can someone tell me what Al Sharpton said or did regarding the Trayvon Martin case that was actually objectionable, without mentioning the words “Tawana Brawley” or “Crown Heights”?
Alex
@Felanius Kootea: Dude, all you needed to do was google (See: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/03/al-sharpton-trayvon-martin-msnbc.php or http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-case-jesse-jackson-20120323,0,2131299.story).
Jackson and Sharpton are just as much professional grifters as Ralph Reed or Gingrich. Anyone who claims differently is not being honest, can’t process empirical evidence, or possesses some combination of the two qualities. It’s that simple.
lamh35
@Darkrose: My younger male cousin has the same date of birth as Trayvon did. He posted on my FB about it. He 25 and Black and really fair skinned, but this thing has rattles even him
Yeah, it’s personal.
quannlace
Wonder if he’ll give a better ‘apology’ than Geraldo did. Like someone else said, even if this was Zimmerman’s address, what the fuck was Lee thinking?
Darkrose
@ItAintEazy: I don’t know, but I was wondering the same thing. Clearly, the Negro Hive Mind ™ hasn’t told us all what to think yet.
Bruce S
“if you were black, you might not be so sane about this”
As opposed to all of the sane white people out there reacting this way or that? I’m not sure it helps to promote a brand of empathy or rationalization implying black folks can’t be expected to act “sane” in these situations or that Spike Lee’s misfire here is primarily because he’s black. I think this fuck-up is on Spike, not “blackness.”
Amir Khalid
@ItAintEazy:
From what I’ve read, none of Trayvon’s suspensions were for violent conduct, or for possession of a weapon. So he was not exactly an angel, but was no thug, either. Whoever leaked his disciplinary record intending to discredit him — and his school should be investigating this, by the way — came up empty.
Darkrose
@Amir Khalid: The problem is both that someone went to the effort to discredit him, and with the idea that killing him was somehow excusable or justifiable if he was less than perfect.
ItAintEazy
@Darkrose: Yeah, before today, I wasn’t even aware this was even about Al Sharpton of Jesse Jackson.
Or was is it supposed to be I wasn’t even angry about Trayvon Martin until AlSharptonJesseJackson told me to be mad? I forget sometimes…
Heliopause
Twitter sure has made it easy to ruin a lot of people’s lives. It’s also established the principle that complex ideas can be expressed and meaningful social interactions completed in 140 characters. But it’s not all bad, I suppose it could redeem itself. Has it cured cancer yet?
ItAintEazy
@Amir Khalid: B-B-But he had a screwdriver. A SCREWDRIVER! He’s clearly out to get us all.
John O
@Bruce S:
*sigh* No. I’m sorry.
Yes, this mistake is on Spike, as I tried to make clear. Sharpton and Jackson also have big microphones. I get it.
Black people can be sane, too. I get it. *SIGH*
I get that their collective shrillness is destructive in the short run to some people. What I’m trying to say is that most people I know have encountered circumstances in which they really didn’t give a shit about what may or may not have been “appropriate.” Rage is a powerful emotion.
Darkrose
@ItAintEazy: I need to check the Hive Mind manual. I think it’s in here somewhere with my copy of the Gay Agenda. *rummages through desk*
HRA
ABC just released the video of Zimmerman being taken in by the police on the night he killed Trayvon Martin. It’s on the Ed Show at MSNBC.
Raven
Looks to me like he might have a cut on the back of his head but if he has a broken nose he didn’t bleed. I’ve had mine broken several time and it never didn’t bleed.
AA+ Bonds
Steve in DC is a hard act to follow in my line of work
Insomniac
Wow! Some of the comments on this thread are a real eye-opener. SMH.
AA+ Bonds
Seriously, pro-am Steve in DC, pro I hope
Raven
@AA+ Bonds: Oh but he was in the Navy!
AA+ Bonds
When You’re Spike Lee . . . You Can’t Mess Up On Twitter.
Brian S
@Steve in DC: Let me clue you in on something. The second you use the term “race-baiter” unironically, you tag yourself as a mental midget when it comes to matters of race. It’s code. It’s a signal that says to everyone out there “I’m too fucking stupid to even know how offensive I’m being right now.” Congrats on that. It wouldn’t matter if you had a point (other than the one coming it the top of your head)–you shot it to hell by using that term.
AA+ Bonds
I don’t want to troll this, I think the whole thing is pretty funny, no one was going to get murdered, come on
AA+ Bonds
“He . . . he did seem very old.” ~wrings hands~
Cassidy
@Steve in DC: Yes massa. Think you for telling everyone how they should feel so you don’t get your delicate little fee fees soiled.
JWL
And if if Lee were to do the right thing, “there’s always some dumb bastard who doesn’t get the word”. I couldn’t live in that house if I owned it without enduring supreme emotional distress. Lee owes that couple a bit more than a heartfelt apology. Anyway, that’s how I’d look at it if I were them.
Anya
George Zimmerman and all those who did the cover up need to explain why there’s no blood, bruises on his face or even dirt on his jacket.
AA+ Bonds
TOUCHE. HIS OWN FILM’S TITLE MAKES EVERYTHING HE DOES IN ERROR HYPOCRISY.
Anya
@Raven: I thought he was a young disaffected Obama supporter.
ItAintEazy
@Darkrose: Oh, don’t get me wrong, there are times I wish I had the Hive Mind Manual® on hand, especially whenever I argue with people during certain family gatherings.
gbear
ABC has video that purportedly shows Zimmerman being brought in for questioning on the night of the shooting. He doesn’t have a broken nose or any visible injury at all. There is no sign from his clothing that he’s been in a struggle at all. Fuck. Via LGF.
edit: but you already know this….
beergoggles
I think Spike’s mistake here was tweeting the wrong address.
When there was no arrest for the shooting, if it were my kid, I would have put up posters where I could with that asshole’s face on it with “Stand Your Ground against this armed and dangerous man”.
Once government cannot provide justice it stops being legitimate and I will not fault other humans for having the same feelings I do.
AA+ Bonds
Would y’all have been mad if it turned out to be George Zimmerman’s legitimate info
PTirebiter
@Alex: Give it a rest. I’m not a fan of either but seriously, they’re just as entitled to their self serving ambitions as any one else in that particular flea circus.
And I’d suggest more so here. I’ve yet to see either of them do or say anything really objectionable.
You certainly can’t equate their actions with Spike Lee or The New Bland Panthers here, so why hold them to aa higher standard than Chris Matthews or Ed Show Ed? Seriously, what’s the deal, are they not somehow living up to your expectations for seriously respectable black liberals?
And please don’t throw up any crap about them providing ammo to Fox news or getting in the way of some mythical teaching moment. Get it straight, Fox & Malkin and the rest would be trotting out their usual bag of ugly with or without Sharpton, Jackson or anyone else- it just doesn’t matter!
And everyone who is teachable already know the basic lesson well enough and will seek out and find those who’ll provide the subtext. And Spike Lee is an ***hole of biblical proportions, from his run ins with Reggie Miller to Tyler Perry to this.
Mouse Tolliver
@HRA: No sign of a broken nose. No sign of blood on his shirt. No sign of injury to the back of his head.
PTirebiter
@Alex: Give it a rest. I’m not a fan of either but seriously, they’re just as entitled to their self serving ambitions as any one else in that particular flea circus.
And I’d suggest more so here. I’ve yet to see either of them do or say anything really objectionable.
You certainly can’t equate their actions with Spike Lee or The New Bland Panthers here, so why hold them to aa higher standard than Chris Matthews or Ed Show Ed? Seriously, what’s the deal, are they not somehow living up to your expectations for seriously respectable black liberals?
And please don’t throw up any crap about them providing ammo to Fox news or getting in the way of some mythical teaching moment. Get it straight, Fox & Malkin and the rest would be trotting out their usual bag of ugly with or without Sharpton, Jackson or anyone else- it just doesn’t matter!
And everyone who is teachable already know the basic lesson well enough and will seek out and find those who’ll provide the subtext. And Spike Lee is an ***hole of biblical proportions, from his run ins with Reggie Miller to Tyler Perry to this.
Felanius Kootea
@Alex: I think you’re responding to some else upthread.
ETA: Oh and I’m not a dude :-).
AA+ Bonds
AA+ Bonds:
Raven
@Anya: I don’t know what the fuck he is. He went off the rails on a damn thread about fitness and started ranting about people (me) being anti-veteran. I think the mofo is daft.
BigSouthern
@Steve in DC: Aren’t you the same cat that was talking about “the mean streets of Alexandria, Virginia!”?
Anyway, if Al Sharpton is a “political joke” it’s not because he’s an actual political joke it’s because white people have decided to call him one because he makes them uncomfortable. Has he been wrong? Abso-fucking-lutely. But that’s the risk you take when you decide to fight against systemic racism by taking up the causes of the people it affects. By definition, people are flawed, and some are trusted when they shouldn’t be, but that doesn’t making coming to their defense when the issue at hand looks like a real issue that happens to real people makes someone a joke.
He and Jackson both have made their share of mistakes over the years, but those are the risks you take when you decide to defend people. The mistakes shouldn’t weigh more than the good they’ve managed to accomplish. And if they do seem to show up in cases like these it’s not post-facto, it’s because they’re the guys with the network, the money, and the juice to get things done. And they don’t have those things because they’re laughingstocks.
So, what, you and other white people don’t like them? When Johnny Cochran died all white people could remember was his work on the OJ Simpson trial. That doesn’t mean the pro-bono work or the advocacy he did for victims of police brutality and civil rights violations didn’t happen (or his providing council to Reginald Denny after the beating). But those things make white people uncomfortable, anyway, so when he stepped up and successfully defended someone they grew to hate, they chose to make the rest of his life about that moment. Patrick Henry does it and he’s a patriot, Johnny Cochran does it and he’s a disgrace.
Frankly, the rest of us are tired of other people dictating who is and isn’t a joke and who we should or shouldn’t take seriously. If my son was shot and the cops did nothing about it, you’re damn right I’d want Sharpton or Jackson to take notice. Maybe then, as now, things would start getting done.
AA+ Bonds
What if Spike Lee had subdued George Zimmerman outside his home, but claimed to be a superhero afterwards, would that tickle the MSNBC pickle
lacp
Despite what its backers may say now, the Florida law was specifically designed to let people like Zimmerman walk. Why else would there be a provision that somebody who successfully used the ‘stand your ground’ defense could sue the police department that arrested him/her? WTF?
This is all about letting Walter Mitty with a Glock live out his fantasies. It’s already prevailed as a defense in some really questionable situations, and now a young man is dead for the crime of walking around. And the nuts want this law in more states (we’ve got it now, or some version of it, here in Pennsylvania. Can’t wait to see how that pans out). I don’t want to see vigilantism, but I would really, really like that grand jury/special prosecutor activity to get into gear.
And what’s “conservative” about ‘stand your ground?’ I thought the standard that it overturned, ‘duty to retreat’, had a pretty long history in common law.
Sure, what Spike Lee did was wrong. But AFAIK, he hasn’t shot anybody yet.
WyldPirate
@Anya:
The cops let him freshen up before they handcuffed him and hauled his ass to the station for questioning?
handy
@AA+ Bonds:
As a Cubs fan I wouldn’t be that mad actually ;)
AA+ Bonds
What if Spike Lee had fucked George Zimmerman?
Cassidy
@Raven: and arguing with two combat vets to boot. That’s a special kind of dumb.
srv
Maybe Obama, Spike and Zimmerman can have a beer together.
AA+ Bonds
Here’s a piece on the topic you may not have read.
beergoggles
@lacp:
The only thing conservative about “Stand Your Ground” is that it’s the new southern strategy code speak for “shoot brown people with no repercussions”.
AA+ Bonds
I guess the message is triple detail when moving Zimmerman, wocka wocka, by which I mean people clearly want him dead
ItAintEazy
@BigSouthern: Forget it. If Martin Luther King Jr. was alive today, all we’d hear about is how he slept with a bunch of hookers.
Jack Burton
@PTirebiter: Can someone please tell me why we all need to hate Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson(except for jrg or Steve in DC, I know why they hate them)? I am supposed to hate Sharpton for something that happened when I was 11, is that right? Why Jesse as well? My Negro hive mind app is not working right and I liked them and they always seem to be bringing up relevant points that pertain to me as a POC. Can someone let this noob know please?
AA+ Bonds
How bad would you liberals really feel if Zimmerman rolled up on that child in a neighborhood like neurotic-ass Deputy Dawg and that child went to school on Zimmerman’s dome
Haven’t police procedurals trained you properly to accept this narrative
wasabi gasp
Where the fuck is Paul and Stevie?
PTirebiter
@AA+ Bonds: Projecting much? No, just and I wouldn’t been mad if Iraq turned out to be a cakewalk or tax cuts created jobs and all boats rose with the tide.
I would have been surprised and reevaluated my thinking on the particular issue. In short, I would observe the neo confederates behavior and start with doing the opposite, adjust as warranted.
AA+ Bonds
@PTirebiter:
You seriously would have supported the invasion and overthrow of another country’s leader on false pretenses if it turned out to be easy
Felanius Kootea
@Anya: Maybe the police escorted him home first, and let him shower, shave and change before taking him in. I mean the Stand Your Ground law allows him to sue them, so perhaps they were just making sure he was real comfortable and not thinking about suing them for the inconvenience of going to the station.
Raven
@Jack Burton: Because stupid motherfuckers are stupid motherfuckers.
eta, I’m talking about the comment knuckleheads not the revs.
AA+ Bonds
It’s never easy, Jesus Christ
jrg
@Jack Burton:
How about your literacy app? Is that one loaded up? Because I never mentioned Sharpton or Jackson… Not that you care.
AA+ Bonds
Here’s a hypothetical: what if Trayvon will never see justice because of a justice system empirically proven to be discriminatory based on the race of the victim
.
Then do you feel better about what Spike Lee did or tried to do
Marcellus Shale, Public Dick
ok there is only one thing that has to happen to spike lee. someone needs to tweet his location as being justin beiber and selena gomez’ secret love nest. where ever spike lee goes, someone with a verified “beiber” account has to tweet that as a place to find justin beiber, giving away free stuff, or whatever the beiber fan goes crazy for.
Mister Papercut
@jrg:
I look forward to the revelation that Trayvon Martin was lying about being dead this whole time.
Jack Burton
@Raven: Thanks for replying to me, Raven. While for the most part you are probably right but even on the liberal side I see this huge rush to judgement whenever those two (Jackson and Sharpton)come up in any sort of discussion. If not for them, who else would? Thank you again, Raven.
AA+ Bonds
Duke produces enemies of the people in general
jrg
@Mister Papercut: Yeah. It’s not like anything else could possibly be relevant.
Jesus Christ… I’m not even saying Zimmerman shouldn’t stand trial. I’m just saying we don’t know all the facts yet. But that means I’m racist, I guess.
AA+ Bonds
Al Sharpton said a bunch of horrible shit about Jews once
Raven
@Jack Burton: I like them both, they’ve made mistakes, I’ve made mistakes. At least they take a fucking stand.
srv
If Stand Your Ground is wrong, then a person retreating from a threat would not be justified in using deadly force in self defense against his assailant.
If Martin wasn’t the assailant, it doesn’t matter if he was violent or not. Who wouldn’t see some non-uniformed nutjob with a gun following him as not being a threat?
WyldPirate
Seems like right-wing news sites also have no line of attack to exploit. The havea former NAACP leader, the Rev. CL Bryant, calling Sharpton and Jesse Jackson “race hustlers” who are seeking to to “racially divide the country”.
This is like a gift to the usual right-wing mouthpieces.
Rick Taylor
Yes. Vigilantism is vigilantism.
liberal
@jrg:
Someone should have thought of that before the fuckwits in FL passed that law.
As for trials not being zoos, it’s a little hard to explain away the acquittal of that guy in LA who murdered that Japanese exchange student. At least per the Wikipedia page on the incident, it sounds like an open-and-shut case of murder.
Jack Burton
@WyldPirate: First off, I think that was a stupid, stupid thing for Spike Lee to have done and there is no reason for him to have done that. This is true that this is what the “loyalists” do and our side shouldn’t. Now, it seems to me that this CL Bryant dude is hustling something and is far more hurtful than anything Jackson or Sharpton have done so far in this case.
Anya
@AA+ Bonds: I think that was Jackson. in 1984, he called New York “Hymietown”.
liberal
@jrg:
No, it means you’re ignorant, because the basic facts have been out for quite a while, and they make it clear that it was Zimmerman who assaulted Martin, in which case it was Martin who was acting defensively, not Zimmerman.
But continue making a public embarassment of yourself, if that’s your desire.
PTirebiter
@Jack Burton: I don’t hate or even dislike either of them, i’m just not a fan. I’m guessing I’m older than you (59 white male) and the extreme dislike by some goes way back. If I had to guess, I’d say it was because they made us uncomfortable in our own assumptions and denials. They saw racism in almost everything and everyone and it felt incredibly unfair. Keep in mind I was a teenager and had probably met three or four African Americans to that point in my life. To me Jim Crow was a long ago aberration and the history I was taught had very little to do with the horrors that Sharpton and Jackson lived everyday of their youth. 30 years later I had red enough and seen enough and had the maturity to process it as a man and a father and it all looked very different. Back then, whatever excesses they my have indulged, they were far more justified in their protestations than I was in mine. So I temper my judgement not out of guilt or superior character but out of the respect I owed them back then and didn’t know it.
JoyfulA
@BigSouthern: Long ago, on C-Span I saw a debate among Democratic candidates for a NY Senate seat, a congresswoman and a couple of other politicians I’d heard of and Al Sharpton. It was like a Republican presidential debate, full of goofiness and rudeness and even yelling, as I remember. Except for Sharpton, who was polite, reasonable, and intent on being a peacemaker. Had I lived in New York, I definitely would have voted for him, and I’ve had a lot of respect for him ever since.
Maybe that was the year Alphonse D’Amato won.
jrg
@liberal: I’m not a lawyer, but it seems like there should be some recourse here: a wrongful death suit, or a challenge to the law of some kind. If Zimmerman started a fight with Martin, then shot him, Zimmerman should stand trial, and should be put in jail. Wild west bullshit like that has no place in modern society.
Canuckistani Tom
@SuzyQ:
You’re thinking of Chris Rock
‘It ain’t right, but I understand’
jrg
@liberal: There’s been no trial. We don’t know all the facts. But whatever, don’t let that stop you from being a complete asshole.
Canuckistani Tom
@SuzyQ:
You’re thinking of Chris Rock
‘It ain’t right, but I understand’
Canuckistani Tom
@SuzyQ:
“It ain’t right, but I understand”
-Chris Rock
Jack Burton
@PTirebiter: Thanks PT. That, in a nutshell, is one of the most honest, real answers anyone could give. It far exceeded my ham fisted(sp?) question by many exponents. Wow. That is why I lurk here.
liberal
@jrg:
IANAL too, but I don’t have the impression that there’s much chance of a successful wrongful death suit.
As far as challenging the law, how would that work?
What’s with the hypothetical? All the evidence clearly indicates that Zimmerman pursued Martin. And while there’s no videotape of the face-to-face confrontation, given Zimmerman’s utterances and the fact that he’s a wannabe cop who dialed 911 40+ (IIRC) times in the previous month, there’s no reasonable conclusion other than “Zimmerman started it”.
It’s not entirely clear, but the oft-repeated claim that the law makes that difficult if not impossible seems pretty plausible.
FL? Modern society? Surely you’re joking.
WyldPirate
@Jack Burton:
I’m not making aa judgement either way as opportunism and grifting doesn’t confine itself to one particular race or ethnicity. My only point was that this is the sort of thing–particularly if Jackson and sharpton, who many folks dislike– that might sway many people’s opinions that might otherwise be sympathetic to what happened to Martin.
There are strong feelings on both sides of the issue for sure, but there are also many who are likely sitting on the fence as well who are waiting for the proverbial other shoe to drop. Shit like what Spike Lee did and potentially perceived over-the top-antics by shit-pot stirrers tend to harden opinions towards either extreme.
liberal
@jrg:
PTirebiter
@AA+ Bonds: I’m fairly certain you were able to glean the part of my reply that pertained to your question. If not, let me know and I’ll help you work through it. If you have difficulty discerning sarcasm, just say so and I’ll refrain.
jrg
@liberal: As constructive as this conversation has been, I’m not sure if spending the rest of my evening explaining to you why we need trials by jury would be the wisest use of my time. Have a pleasant evening.
Jack Burton
@WyldPirate: I concede your point and agree that there are a shit ton of people that really do not like those two. But do you really believe that there are that many people who have not already made up their minds wrt this case and that Sharpton and Jackson are going to change anything. As I recall, it was Sharpton who “shit stirred” because there was exactly zero stirring for a month, by anyone, nor would there have been.
AA+ Bonds
@PTirebiter:
^to me this means you were never thinking right in the first place about Iraq
AA+ Bonds
@Anya:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Sharpton#Comments_on_Jews
liberal
@Rick Taylor:
Is it really vigilantism? Or is it really a matter of reaping the shitstorm sown by effectively legalizing homocide?
AA+ Bonds
My fave Al Sharpton is still probably on Mitt in 2007
liberal
@jrg:
LOL. I guess you’re too stupid to understand this sentence: “Trial by jury doesn’t amount to a hill of beans when the state has effectively legalized homocide.”
What a fucking moron you are.
Soonergrunt
@Comrade Mary: He apologized approximately 20 minutes ago, if not earlier:
From twitter feed @spikelee:
AA+ Bonds
Al Sharpton’s main problem is that he talks like Harry S. Truman and liberals have gone soft
Jack Burton
@jrg: @jrg: There will probably NEVER be a trial by jury, you dig? If not for these “Race Baiting Shit Stirrers” you would not know this even happened. And for you to conflate this with the Duke case is so fucking…..wrong. A young man is dead. I know you will next (if you haven’t already) start talking about a lynch mob (nice whistle btw) or how this kid was a drug dealer because there is no way he just bought a bag of candy and was going home, right? You are trying to muddy the waters with all of your concern for justice ex post facto.
Rick Taylor
Agreed. But without a public outcry, would there have been a possibility of a trial? It sure wasn’t looking that way before it became national news.
Comrade Mary
@AA+ Bonds: You fucking moron.
__
Have you seen the racist fucking poison dripping out of some white people over the past few weeks? Do you think that stupidly encouraging vigilantism against Zimmerman does any good at all at helping ensure that he faces charges and a trial?
__
IF and WHEN he doesn’t get tried or convicted, then I would understand people feeling pretty fucking angry, because I’d be pretty fucking angry myself.
__
But I don’t support the death penalty, even for murderers, and I don’t support vigilante action, even after a miscarriage of justice. Sick, racist fucks would start a fucking bloodbath while you continued to sit here and smirk as you posted your shit.
__
And what @WyldPirate said, much more calmly than me.
__
@Soonergrunt: Saw it: thanks for posting it.
WyldPirate
@Jack Burton:
I think the issue goes more towards the need for a somewhat subtle touch when one is stirring the shit.
The pot certainly needed stirring and sharpton did yeoman’s work by grabbing the paddle. Unfortunately, many who may be sitting on the fence are older folks who have memories of the bombastic approach of both sharpton and jackson.
As tragic as this case is, it has the feel of a potentially pivotal moment in race relations in our society. I would hate to see someone’ or something fuck it up by being stupid or taking advantage of the situation.
Jack Burton
@WyldPirate: Man, you are so right. This certainly seems pivotal. A discussion is needed, probably the same one we never had in 1877, 1954, or 1964. But you are right, I would hate to see someone fuck it up by calling attention to something that no one else wanted to touch for a month. A real tragedy.
WyldPirate
@Jack Burton: @Jack Burton:
The first I saw about the case was I think two Saturdays ago on MSNBC Saturday show Alex Witt. There were no clips of Sharpton stirring anything at the ti that she showede, but he was all over it the following week as I usually catch his show every day
You’re certainly entitled to your sarcasm and frustration with this issue. I wasn’t trying to diss Sharpton or Jackson; I was simply making an observation as to my perceptions as a member of a demographic that has a lot of the potential fence-sitters in it. Ingrained behaviors in societies change slowly and events can slightly tip the scales back and forth over generations was more my point.
ETA– And as much as you may think there hasn’t been a “discussion” over the past 150 years regarding race; things have radically improved in the last 53 years of my life even though they haven’t improved enough.
Chris T.
The way to combat this (now that it’s too late to just not do the stupid thing in the first place) is to post every Sanford address as “The Zimmerman Address”.
PTirebiter
@AA+ Bonds: Okay, I’ll help you work through it but this is the last time. The devil is in your ellipses… they underline your willful ignorance of the context. I gave you two examples to illustrate the general point. that I wouldn’t be mad if Martin turned out not to be the victim I currently believe him to be. My answer (no I would not have been mad) is independent of what my veiw on the war would have been had it turned out to be a cakewalk or if tax cuts had performed as promoted. The examples require you to make the obvious and reasonable inference that I was oppossed to the war and skeptical of voodoo economics. That’s it. You can’t reasonably infer any larger position that I may or may not have held about a hypothetical outcome.
The fact that I would have gladly been proven wrong about Cheney’s boast only tells you that my need to be right doesn’t trump the suffering of tens of thousands of human beings. It’s a pretty low bar to clear as far as minimally required decency for admittance to the human race and should make clear the astounding stupidy of your original question.
so there you go. Get a responsible adult to cosign your next comment and I’ll take a look.
Jack Burton
@WyldPirate: Thanks for the discussion. I am sorry for the sarcastic tone and this does not pertain to you but I am dead tired of the, “Just relax, it will work itself out, let justice run its course. No wildin'” line of bullshit. I am letting my frustration spill over the fact that for the first time in a long time we all seemed to be on the same page and then, this week. I don’t think those two are the best advocates for Black people but certainly did not see anyone else stepping up either in a lot of cases when I heard about this four weeks ago. As to your last point, I really believe it was pretty good in the 90’s and now it has kind of regressed? Maybe because of the internet and any idiot with a telephone line can opine. It just seems like with all other both sides bullshit we hear the other side a lot louder now.
Slowbama
The juvenile ad hominem attacks on Steve in DC are par for this place, but the various apologies for Sharpton on this thread are really mind-blowing. You guys do realize that BOTH high-profile cases he’s been involved in turned out not only to be bogus, but extremely bogus? And hurt real people’s lives in a very real fashion? Seriously, does anyone here have a memory better than a gnat’s? If not, there’s a whole internet out there, do a little research.
El Cid
Are there now more than like 8 “New Black Panthers”?
gwangung
@El Cid: No. Seven.
Mister Papercut
@jrg:
How in the shit do you get from what I said to that?
Jack Burton
@Slowbama: Are you referring to the girl falsely accusing White people of rape and the riots in New York where a little boy was run down (by mistake) by a Jewish driver who fell behind the Rebbe (Sorry if that is the incorrect way to address him). Subsequently, two men were murdered in revenge. There, are you happy now? Jessie Jackson called New York “Hymietown” in the 80’s. Added an extra for you. So, tell me Slowbama, are you perfect? As Raven eloquently stated above, they have made their mistakes and I believe they have atoned for them both by self reflection and the justified vilification that society put on them. But because of those things we must forever put a stain on them because “real” people were hurt? If you are not a winger you should also hate FDR, JFK, LBJ, and a host of others because “real” people were hurt? Sorry, I am losing train of thought gnt mfmery……
Jack Burton
@Slowbama: Oh wait, I see from your past comments that you are basically a PUMA, at best. Awesome, of course we are all race baiting. OOGGA BOOOGA!!!
WyldPirate
@Jack Burton:
I enjoyed the discussion as well and took the sarcasm as generalized in nature.
___
I also think you are spot-on with the the backsliding of opinions comments. I see it as a sort of death throes of a societal ills. As fucked up things in our past get closer to extinction, the more those who are threatened by the change are going to scream and thrash about.
AxelFoley
@Steve in DC:
No, asshole, the stupid started when Zimmerman shot Trayvon.
kc
@Soonergrunt:
Good, I’m glad he did that.
Jess
I have a question for the defenders of Sharpton and Jackson (and it’s an honest question, not a snarky one): do you have any evidence that their strategies have improved race relations? I get that they’ve given voice to the AA community’s rage and frustration in a way that must be satisfying for members of that community, but has it led to anything constructive in your opinion?
As a liberal white girl, I’ve always tried to keep an open mind (although I have more faith in MLK’s approach), but my AA mother-in-law had a lot of harsh things to say about them both, and argued that they were exploiting Black rage and ultimately hurting the cause of social justice.
Jack Burton
@Jess: Yes. I cannot speak for your MIL or any other anecdotal evidence but it seems they try to bring things to the open that others refuse to confront and that makes certain people VERY uncomfortable. Thus they are race baiters and the like. I am not very well versed in Critical Race Theory but it seems they are very good (I am stealing this from someone here) at moving the Overton window wrt privilege in this country. Btw, the rage is not satisfying at all. You know what is satisfying? Feeling safe and equal to all around you and not having to fear for your freedom or life based on how you dress, talk, smell, or the color of your skin. I hope I am not the only one who answers you because I gave a very poor answer without a lot of thought.
Jess
@Jack Burton: Thanks, Jack. I appreciate your sharing your views on the matter.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
@Darkrose: This is why I am at the point of… well, if Dipshit Steve ever– EVER fucking opened his mouth in my presence the way he has in this thread, SOMEBODY would be going to the hospital. So long as I’m going to be considered less than human, then maybe it’s time to act that way.
All my life I’ve tried to be that “good, upstanding Negro.” What does it mean? What do white people like Steve the dipshit call “good upstanding Negroes?”
You can guess, can’t you?
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
@WyldPirate: Unfortunately for those “fence-sitters,” there IS NO black person whose opinion they would respect or even listen to, unless that black person constantly and unctuously tells them that they’re not racist, they’ve never been racist, and it’s all those other Negroes’ fault that this situation exists.
FUCK THAT.