• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

When we show up, we win.

Weird. Rome has an American Pope and America has a Russian President.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Celebrate the fucking wins.

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

Stamping your little feets and demanding that they see how important you are? Not working anymore.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

In my day, never was longer.

No Kings: Americans standing in the way of bad history saying “Oh, Fuck No!”

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

Republicans do not trust women.

If you cannot answer whether trump lost the 2020 election, you are unfit for office.

There is no right way to do the wrong thing.

Human rights are not a matter of opinion!

“But what about the lurkers?”

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

Mobile Menu

  • Seattle Meet-up Post
  • 2025 Activism
  • Targeted Political Fundraising
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • COVID-19
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • 2025 Activism
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • Targeted Fundraising!
You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Krugthulhu’s Fractured Fairy Tales

Krugthulhu’s Fractured Fairy Tales

by Zandar|  April 27, 201210:12 am| 173 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Free Markets Solve Everything, Show Us on the Doll Where the Invisible Hand Touched You, Tax Policy, All we want is life beyond the thunderdome, Blatant Liars and the Lies They Tell, Daydream Believers, Nobody could have predicted

FacebookTweetEmail

The Great Shrill One rises from the depths of reason to infect the Austerians with his beard-tentacles of sanity and common sense and tells a little bedtime story about a fairy (rent asunder by his self-same beard-tentacles, no doubt.)

Critics warned from the beginning that austerity in the face of depression would only make that depression worse. But the “austerians” insisted that the reverse would happen. Why? Confidence! “Confidence-inspiring policies will foster and not hamper economic recovery,” declared Jean-Claude Trichet, the former president of the European Central Bank — a claim echoed by Republicans in Congress here. Or as I put it way back when, the idea was that the confidence fairy would come in and reward policy makers for their fiscal virtue.

The good news is that many influential people are finally admitting that the confidence fairy was a myth. The bad news is that despite this admission there seems to be little prospect of a near-term course change either in Europe or here in America, where we never fully embraced the doctrine, but have, nonetheless, had de facto austerity in the form of huge spending and employment cuts at the state and local level.

So, about that doctrine: appeals to the wonders of confidence are something Herbert Hoover would have found completely familiar — and faith in the confidence fairy has worked out about as well for modern Europe as it did for Hoover’s America. All around Europe’s periphery, from Spain to Latvia, austerity policies have produced Depression-level slumps and Depression-level unemployment; the confidence fairy is nowhere to be seen, not even in Britain, whose turn to austerity two years ago was greeted with loud hosannas by policy elites on both sides of the Atlantic.

And with Spain and now Britain’s Q1 GDP numbers showing big fat recession signs (and a healthy chunk of the Eurozone following suit at this point) the notion that “austerity is the answer because it creates certainty and confidence!” is about as dead now as Sarkozy’s chances in France’s upcoming elections.  Poor little Confidence Fairy didn’t have a chance, you know.  You didn’t clap loudly enough, Europe.  (Austerity can only be failed…)

Never forget of course that for the last several years, the “serious” people have been telling us that we had to follow suit or face economic ruin.  US GDP numbers for Q1 came out this morning at 2.2% growth, and while that’s down from 4Q 2011’s 3.0%, it’s still better than what Europe’s austerity cultists are feeding upon right now.  Our own zombie-eyed granny starvers (thanks, Chuck) have told us for years now that this was necessary if not vital to our survival, and failure to do so would mean another financial crash.  Meanwhile, the actual application of throttling the spender of last resort in several European countries has — surprise! — led to a double-dip recession with no end in sight and even more cuts called for.  We need more of the same stuff that not only isn’t working, it’s causing more problems.  That never happens with conservatives and economics.

Yet, we face the same exact calls here from Republicans and more than a few Democrats.  They’re hoping you don’t pay any attention to the fact that what they’ve said we have to do has been tried and is currently failing miserably in Europe.  Mighty Krugthulhu has of course been saying this for a while now, and all but ignored in the halls of power.  It’s looking like that particular era may be coming to an end and none too soon.  Maybe those steely gray beard-tentacles of his can latch on to a few heads and extract the Stupid while he’s at it.

What a fairy tale that would make.  Ia! Ia!

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « The Old World Is Rough, It’s Just Getting Rougher
Next Post: Nationally Lampooned Vacations »

Reader Interactions

173Comments

  1. 1.

    Corner Stone

    April 27, 2012 at 10:17 am

    Is this whole thing snark? I can’t tell anymore and I’m getting some hella whiplash.

  2. 2.

    Punchy

    April 27, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Me, the old lady, and the 7-month old spawn will be in Spain in a month. We’re a bit worried about Greek-style mass protests, Molitov cocktails, and train/bus/cab strikes, which would completely fuck us during that week of vacay. I pray the Spanicans can hold it together for at least another month before they go all LA Riots on Madrid and Barca.

  3. 3.

    Dan

    April 27, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Now I know you’re kidding about the beard tentacles but I honest-to-god believe the world would be better off if Krugman had a longer beard. The lizard-brain might recognize it as authority.

  4. 4.

    Knockabout

    April 27, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Ugh. More trolling. Cole, are you going to salvage what little dignity you have left and get rid of Zandar’s traveling circus of failure?

  5. 5.

    Sly

    April 27, 2012 at 10:26 am

    @Dan:

    Now I know you’re kidding about the beard tentacles but I honest-to-god believe the world would be better off if Krugman had a longer beard. The lizard-brain might recognize it as authority.

    Charles Darwin wishes this were true.

  6. 6.

    MattF

    April 27, 2012 at 10:27 am

    Floyd Norris has a pretty scary column in the NYT:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/business/for-germany-austerity-elsewhere-in-europe-is-a-harder-sell.html?_r=1&ref=business

    He quotes a German central banker, a certain Andreas Dombret:

    The question now, said Dr. Dombret, a member of the executive board of the Bundesbank, “is which countries have to shoulder the adjustment burden.”
    Dr. Dombret’s answer is blunt: Not Germany.
    “The deficit countries must adjust,” he said. “They must address their structural problems, reduce domestic demand, become more competitive and increase their exports.”

    The solution, in other words, is “we get richer, you get poorer.” Of course, as you get poorer, you also get more virtuous, so there’s that.

  7. 7.

    kindness

    April 27, 2012 at 10:30 am

    I’m thankful many of those Blue Dog Democrats calling for Republican policies are going down like flies in the primaries or choosing not to run for this next general election.

    We do need more Democrats elected but really it will only help Democrats if they actually believe in the policies of the Democratic party. Hell….we may even see Nancy Smash as Speaker of the House again. Wouldn’t that be a hoot?

  8. 8.

    liberal

    April 27, 2012 at 10:31 am

    @MattF:
    Heh. I’m sure he’d be fine with them “reduc[ing] domestic demand, becom[ing] more competive and increas[ing] their exports” by going off the Euro and simultaneously stiffing all their creditors (including lots of German banks).

  9. 9.

    liberal

    April 27, 2012 at 10:32 am

    @Knockabout:
    Uh, what’s the fail here? It’s not exactly the most original post, but that’s not much of an offense in the blogosphere.

  10. 10.

    Suffern ACE

    April 27, 2012 at 10:34 am

    @MattF: Perhaps they should start by not importing those German manufactured products. They’re already cheaper labor wise. I think what the Germans want though is poor countries to buy those goods.

  11. 11.

    Bob2

    April 27, 2012 at 10:35 am

    “President Obama’s failure to fill the open seats on the Federal Reserve Board when he had 60 votes in the Senate is likely to go down as one of his costlier mistakes.”

  12. 12.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    April 27, 2012 at 10:36 am

    We need more of the same stuff that not only isn’t working, it’s causing more problems. That never happens with conservatives and economics.

    I believe that would describe the last 30 years of Republican economic policy. “I know I told you that digging this hole deeper would fill it up, and it will, you just have to give me more time. You’ll start to see results when you stop paying attention to what I am doing.”

  13. 13.

    Jay C

    April 27, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Krugman has been a voice in the wilderness decrying the bogosity and general fallaciousness of the Austrian/Austerian School of discipline/austerity/balanced budgets/confidence-fairy economics for some time now: during which developers have bought up the wilderness, built cheap subdivisions on it, oversold it to the rubes during the RE bubble, and are now trying to foreclose their way out of the hole….

    One would hope people (especially those in power) would listen to him now, but I’m doubtful: while the Beard Of Analysis is, of course, quite right in principle, I noticed his column skirted around a major factor in Europe’s current woes (and one that affects the US, too) – namely, the role of private banking/capital (i.e. the FIRE sector in general) in both provoking the recent crisis, and its influence in pushing the “austerity” measures to bail itself out of its various troubles mostly at the public’s expense.

    Curious, that….

  14. 14.

    jon

    April 27, 2012 at 10:37 am

    Austerity must be maintained at all discount costs! I’m reminded of Einstürzende Neubauten, which could easily be translated from the German to be “New Austerity Solution”. And if anyone knows about Solutions….

  15. 15.

    Knockabout

    April 27, 2012 at 10:42 am

    @liberal: Because that is all he does. He hasn’t had an original thought in his head that wasn’t fed to him by Memeorandum or Reddit or Fark and passes it off here as his own.

  16. 16.

    SatanicPanic

    April 27, 2012 at 10:43 am

    @MattF: Isn’t this just a beggar-thy-neighbor strategy? That strikes me as a bad idea, but what do I know?

  17. 17.

    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik

    April 27, 2012 at 10:44 am

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    The entire GOP philosophy for decades has been based upon “Government is full of shit, elect me and I’ll PROVE IT!” What can you expect?

    The sad thing is just how little it will all change. We’ve been feeling trickle-down for decades and its proven failure has meant only that it’s literally the only solution ever allowed consideration. It’s a constant state of failing upward, where Austerity can never fail, it can only be failed.

  18. 18.

    liberal

    April 27, 2012 at 10:46 am

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    I believe that would describe the last 30 years of Republican economic policy.

    While Republican economic policy is far, far worse than Democratic econ pol, the latter is hardly perfect. Dem policy on finance regulation is at best poor. And Dem policy re free trade agreements isn’t much better.

    Just to pick an example, look at Clinton’s role in eliminating capital gains on selling houses. (A rational real estate tax policy would tax capital gains on selling any real estate as close to 100% as possible, since any increase in the value of real estate controlling for added improvements is a free surplus the owner had no role in creating.)

  19. 19.

    General Stuck

    April 27, 2012 at 10:46 am

    a claim echoed by Republicans in Congress here

    And I didn’t see so much as a mention of Obama or the Obama administration, with a ‘wimp’ ‘failure’, ‘weak’ or ‘fold’ reference, or insinuation of such, in this excellent article by Mr. Krugman. He coulda used the term ‘confidence fairy’ a few more times though, to make sure we got that.

  20. 20.

    Tone In DC

    April 27, 2012 at 10:46 am

    @MattF:

    I hope Merkel, her government and German bankers are not as obstinate as that column makes them seem. The point of view Floyd depicts is not going to work well in the end, IMHO.

  21. 21.

    liberal

    April 27, 2012 at 10:47 am

    @SatanicPanic:
    Yeah, bad idea, as in unworkable idea, as in if they get too poor, they ain’t gonna purchase German exports.

  22. 22.

    liberal

    April 27, 2012 at 10:49 am

    @General Stuck:
    OK, just to get your panties in a twist…

  23. 23.

    Sly

    April 27, 2012 at 10:49 am

    @MattF:

    The solution, in other words, is “we get richer, you get poorer.” Of course, as you get poorer, you also get more virtuous, so there’s that.

    Arbeit Macht Frei.

  24. 24.

    Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor

    April 27, 2012 at 10:49 am

    I can understand Krugman’s frustration: The lower-than-expected US growth, of course, will be taken as a sign from God Almighty that it’s high time to starve granny. But the UK’s double dip recession, also of course, will be politely ignored (or taken as a sign of insufficient austerity).

    It’s like the old-time doctors, with their leeches… Bleeding the patient made things worse? Must be time for another bleeding.

    While economics isn’t a hard science, it’s still a science. And a science can’t function without at least some consensus as to what comprises valid data, and what does not. Most “economists” left that path long ago.

    Unless we as a culture figure out a path back to consensus reality, economics as a useful science is doomed.

  25. 25.

    Ash Can

    April 27, 2012 at 10:49 am

    @Knockabout: If Zandar needs to stop reporting on what he comes across in the news media and expressing opinions on it that happen to be in agreement with other opinions, then the entire blogosphere needs to go poof. And if that in fact is what you’re getting at, then why are you wasting your time fiddling around on the Internet?

  26. 26.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 27, 2012 at 10:51 am

    Over two centuries ago, the French gave us the means to deal with dumbshits like Jean-Claude Trichet.

  27. 27.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 27, 2012 at 10:52 am

    @Ash Can:

    Knockabout is Zandar’s personal BJ stalker, and the method of the French could be easily adapted to him as well.

  28. 28.

    Roger Moore

    April 27, 2012 at 10:52 am

    @Knockabout:

    Ugh. More trolling.

    Pot, kettle, black.

  29. 29.

    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik

    April 27, 2012 at 10:53 am

    @Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor:

    Politics > Science, every single day, in the US. Science is always made to conform to politics, where politics is almost never required to conform to science anymore.

  30. 30.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    April 27, 2012 at 10:54 am

    Austerity cannot be failed…

    I think you’ll find it can only be failed, at least if I’m aware of all internet clichés.

  31. 31.

    Ash Can

    April 27, 2012 at 10:55 am

    @General Stuck: If people need to be beaten over the head to make them see that Keynesian economic policies are empirically proven to work in the real world, then Krugman can repeat whatever silly phrase he wants, however often he needs to repeat it. (If only it would work.)

  32. 32.

    Pen

    April 27, 2012 at 10:55 am

    @Knockabout: This is an opinion/news blog genius. If you don’t like your front-pagers commenting on trending news stories set up your own damn blog. I’m pretty sure Cole’s on record as saying trolls like you can go get bent, not sure he’a going to change his tune. because the site has a new emo stalker to pie filter.

  33. 33.

    General Stuck

    April 27, 2012 at 10:55 am

    @liberal:

    OK, just to get your panties in a twist…

    What? by linking to an article from 2010. You will have to do better than that. very lame.

    I call em as I see em, and try not to hold grudges from what happened yesterday, or in 2010.

  34. 34.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 27, 2012 at 10:58 am

    I know this is tiring, but Adam Smith, of all people, figured this shit out over two centuries ago, too. That if the wages of the workman rise, then economic output across the board will rise, and a tide that raises all boats, not just the yachts, will be created.

    Of course, if you post appropriate passages from Smith supporting this claim on any wingtard board, you’ll be denounced as a Marxist.

  35. 35.

    Ash Can

    April 27, 2012 at 10:58 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: I see. And I realize, then, that it’s way too much to ask that this wanker at least try to make sense. Pie filter it is.

  36. 36.

    gene108

    April 27, 2012 at 10:59 am

    @liberal:

    Just to pick an example, look at Clinton’s role in eliminating capital gains on selling houses. (A rational real estate tax policy would tax capital gains on selling any real estate as close to 100% as possible, since any increase in the value of real estate controlling for added improvements is a free surplus the owner had no role in creating.)

    Sale of primary residence doesn’t trigger capital gains or losses, if you’ve lived in it for more than 2 years.

    All other real estate properties are treated as capital assets and the gain or losses on sale goes to Schedule D to be taxed as capital gains at the capital gains tax rate.

  37. 37.

    Barry

    April 27, 2012 at 11:01 am

    @SatanicPanic: “Isn’t this just a beggar-thy-neighbor strategy? That strikes me as a bad idea, but what do I know?”

    The bankers in Germany, France and the UK don’t mind beggaring everybody, so long as they win.

  38. 38.

    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik

    April 27, 2012 at 11:06 am

    Oh, and one argument I’ve seen regarding the economy is that “Public jobs don’t matter, they’re not the proof of government bloating itself on our dime, the RAMPANT COMMUNNAZI MASSIVE UNPRECEDENTED SPENDING SPREE BY THAT THIEVING KENYAN ISS!!!!!!” Except, according to K-Thug….er…no, it isn’t that. In fact precisely the opposite.

    But again, suggesting anything but trickle-down and Austerity proves you’re not Serious and therefore need to sit down and shut the fuck up until Austerity finally takes its course.

  39. 39.

    Culture of Truth

    April 27, 2012 at 11:06 am

    then Krugman can repeat whatever silly phrase he wants, however often he needs to repeat it. (If only it would work.)

    I concur. Cause last time I checked, the powers that be still believe in confidence.

  40. 40.

    SatanicPanic

    April 27, 2012 at 11:08 am

    @Barry: True, the bankers don’t care. You’d think the governments involved would be at least a little bit resistant to something that has had some pretty disastrous results for them in the past, but the bankers probably own them too.

  41. 41.

    Roger Moore

    April 27, 2012 at 11:08 am

    @gene108:

    Sale of primary residence doesn’t trigger capital gains or losses, if you’ve lived in it for more than 2 years.

    Not quite true. You can deduct $250K from the capital gain from selling your house ($500K if married filing jointly) but any gain beyond that is taxable. That obviously covers most homeowners, but still winds up charging some tax to the very wealthy. The flip side is that you can’t deduct capital losses on the sale of your primary residence.

  42. 42.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 27, 2012 at 11:10 am

    @Culture of Truth:

    I concur. Cause last time I checked, the powers that be still believe in confidence.

    The irony here of course is that a confidence man is a criminal in most civilized countries, unless he wears a three piece suit, and then he’s a role model.

  43. 43.

    gene108

    April 27, 2012 at 11:11 am

    @Roger Moore:

    True. Thanks for the update.

  44. 44.

    Face

    April 27, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Saw on CNBC that Spain “downgraded two notches” today. Maybe they meant “nachoes”, I dunno. Anyone got a layman’s explanation of what this means, both present and future?

    kthxbeye

  45. 45.

    burnspbesq

    April 27, 2012 at 11:14 am

    @Tone In DC:

    “I hope Merkel, her government and German bankers are not as obstinate as that column makes them seem”

    I hate to be Johnny Buzzkill this early in the morning, but they are, and there is no reason that I can see to expect them to back down. The number one priority of the German government seems to be keeping the German banks from having to publicly admit that they are insolvent. It’s not too dissimilar to a Ponzi scheme.

  46. 46.

    ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©

    April 27, 2012 at 11:14 am

    @General Stuck:

    Would you consider something from a few minutes ago?

    The Secret of Our Non-success

    Obama, far from presiding over a huge expansion of government the way the right claims, has in fact presided over unprecedented austerity, largely driven by cuts at the state and local level. And it’s therefore an amazing triumph of misinformation the way that lackluster economic performance has been interpreted as a failure of government spending.

    ~

  47. 47.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    April 27, 2012 at 11:15 am

    On a related note

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17870304#TWEET134354

  48. 48.

    Clime Acts

    April 27, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Can one of you BJ Bots explain why the Obama administration has from the beginning rejected Krugman’s economic analysis and the cure(s) he recommends?

    Thank you.

  49. 49.

    Culture of Truth

    April 27, 2012 at 11:20 am

    “Spain’s unemployment rose to 24.4%.”

    “Spain’s government maintains that austerity should be the
    main driver of policy….”

  50. 50.

    Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor

    April 27, 2012 at 11:22 am

    @The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:

    Politics > Science, every single day, in the US. Science is always made to conform to politics, where politics is almost never required to conform to science anymore.

    Yep. And the end state of this trend takes us into the post-Enlightenment.

    Good luck maintaining a technological society once most of the population has regressed, mentally and emotionally, back to the 14th century.

    Time to take up Basket-Weaving for Jesus, I guess…

  51. 51.

    Culture of Truth

    April 27, 2012 at 11:24 am

    Spains’s unemployment is up sharply.

    After austerity measures, the government aims to get the deficit down to 5.3 percent this year.

    S&P has just slashed Spain’s credit rating.

    “Germany expressed its confidence in Spain’s efforts to tame the crisis.”

  52. 52.

    General Stuck

    April 27, 2012 at 11:24 am

    @ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©:

    Head on desk. He is talking about what republicans are claiming, but doing it in a very sloppy way. Insinuating, or Obama getting blamed for (or presiding over) spending cuts and job loss at the state and local level. Talk to Walker, Crist, and Kasich about that. jeebus .

  53. 53.

    eemom

    April 27, 2012 at 11:25 am

    @jon: @Sly:

    I got a bunch of shit here a while back when I pointed out that Germany is doing with the euro what it set out to do with the Wehrmacht — yes, minus the Holocaust, thank God, but the basic goal is the same.

    And the casualties are, in fact, mounting.

  54. 54.

    burnspbesq

    April 27, 2012 at 11:27 am

    @Clime Acts:

    “Can one of you BJ Bots explain why the Obama administration has from the beginning rejected Krugman’s economic analysis and the cure(s) he recommends?”

    That’s not a fair description of what the Administration did. Political considerations (I.e., the need to get Republican votes to pass any sort of stimulus) led to a stimulus package that was too small and too heavily weighted toward tax relief as opposed to spending. But the Administration got what it could.

  55. 55.

    Brachiator

    April 27, 2012 at 11:29 am

    @liberal:

    Just to pick an example, look at Clinton’s role in eliminating capital gains on selling houses.

    What are you talking about? The Section 121 exclusion has always been in place, with some minor variation. However, capital gains in excess of a certain amount may be taxable. But it is not a straight elimination of all capital gains.

    @kindness:

    I’m thankful many of those Blue Dog Democrats calling for Republican policies are going down like flies in the primaries or choosing not to run for this next general election.

    Still, the present Congress is making clear where their priorities lie. Here’s what’s hot on Accounting and Tax sites this morning:

    Lawmakers Voice Support for Corporate Tax Extenders__
    Members of Congress took turns testifying at a hearing of the House Ways and Means Select Revenue Measures Subcommittee on April 26 in favor of extending the life of corporate and small business tax incentives. With the Bush-era tax incentives set to expire at the end of 2012 and talk of deficit reduction and tax reform continuing to draw congressional interest in 2012, lawmakers wanted to go on record in support of tax provisions they said would create jobs and provide a boost to the economy….

    Not a lot of support for any real stimulus programs, but lots of support for the secret sauce of corporate tax breaks and credits.

  56. 56.

    burnspbesq

    April 27, 2012 at 11:30 am

    In a perfect world, the Confidence Fairy and the Bond Vigilantes would go off together and have a bukkake party breed unicorns.

  57. 57.

    Mark S.

    April 27, 2012 at 11:31 am

    @Culture of Truth:

    Geez, I don’t think even Boehner and Willard would be advocating austerity if unemployment were 24%. Europe is like watching a slow-motion train wreck.

  58. 58.

    MobiusKlein

    April 27, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Listening to NPR, all talk about the Eurozone crisis is 100% austerity. Never a mention about alternatives, just debt and bank. I suspect they have a policy there to avoid Keynesian chatter as too partisan and confusing.

  59. 59.

    ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©

    April 27, 2012 at 11:32 am

    @General Stuck:

    Sputter away.
    ~

  60. 60.

    Someguy

    April 27, 2012 at 11:32 am

    The evidence is that the European debt crisis was caused by governments (via national banks) making a shit ton of loans to a bunch of countries that can’t repay because they spend way more than they take in, and by the governments over there securing a shit ton of bankster exploits, most of which involved making a shit ton of loans to people who can’t repay. The idea that the debt crisis can be solved by pouring a shit ton more money down the twin holes into which the first several shit tons disappeared is novel. At what point do Germany and France cut off the nations that are essentially holding them hostage? And if sovereign debt is evil and at the root of the problem, exactly how is giving the PIGs an open checkbook the solution to it? We can impoverish Germany and France, and if the PIGs don’t get off the road they’re on, all it accomplishes is a forestalled sovereign debt crisis – with added German and French bankruptcy. That looks suspiciously like pre-WWII conditions to me.

  61. 61.

    burnspbesq

    April 27, 2012 at 11:33 am

    The Euro has to go.

  62. 62.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    April 27, 2012 at 11:34 am

    @burnspbesq: Plus, he has no control over state governments, who have been slashing budgets and jobs faster than the feds are creating them and, like New Jersey, Florida, and others, refusing to take federal money.

  63. 63.

    burnspbesq

    April 27, 2012 at 11:36 am

    @Someguy:

    “At what point do Germany and France cut off the nations that are essentially holding them hostage?”

    Wrong question. The correct question is “Why shouldn’t the French and German banks bear the consequences of their abandonment of sound underwriting practices?”

  64. 64.

    Poopyman

    April 27, 2012 at 11:36 am

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    Yes, as through this world I’ve wandered
    I’ve seen lots of funny men;
    Some will rob you with a six-gun,
    And some with a fountain pen.

    And as through your life you travel,
    Yes, as through your life you roam,
    You won’t never see an outlaw
    Drive a family from their home.

    Le plus ca change …

  65. 65.

    Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor

    April 27, 2012 at 11:38 am

    @Clime Acts:

    Can one of you BJ Bots explain why the Obama administration has from the beginning rejected Krugman’s economic analysis and the cure(s) he recommends?

    Wall Street is bigger than the US government. Presumably the admin does not want to anger such a large aggregate actor.

    None of this is new. I’m old enough to remember the noise before Clinton (prodded by Sens. Graham and Schumer, among others) signed the Bill that repealed Glass-Steagall. A big part of the spin back then –from both sides BTW– was that NYC/Wall Street would lose its status as the financial capital of the world if all those terrible, outdated regulations weren’t repealed. Those mean, nasty banks in the UK, Germany and Japan were going to eat our lunch if we didn’t repeal those regulations.

    In other words, shorter Wall Street: Nice economy you’ve got here, but your regulations annoy us: it’d be such a shame if we were forced to pick up and leave NYC for London, Berlin or Tokyo, wouldn’t it?.

    This isn’t FDR’s time. We’re squabbling over the government’s right to have a post office or to build bridges, fer-krissakes. So I’ve come to realize that there’s not all that much the Obama admin could do, by itself, to restrain the excesses of Wall Street.

  66. 66.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 27, 2012 at 11:38 am

    @General Stuck:

    No, they will not talk to Walker, Scott, and Kaisch. They will blame Obama, for the national trend, missing the redwoods in their own fucking eyes.

    Obama gets the blame for the fuckups of tumbrel-fodder like Walker, Scott, and Kaisch. “Conservative” economic theory cannot fail, it can only be failed, and not by those who actually implement it, only by those who are near.

  67. 67.

    TK-421

    April 27, 2012 at 11:39 am

    Watching European (and American) political leaders respond to the latest irrefutable data, I think this is yet another example of how big and bad the problem is. The problem is psychological, and it runs deep throughout western culture.

    We all instinctively believe that our economies are tales in morality- that “virtuous” economic behavior is rewarded with growth and employment, while “sinful” economic behavior is punished with recessions and job losses. But as Krgthulu occasionally reminds us, an economy is NOT a morality tale. Recessions happen, often without “sinful” debts being piled up (his babysitting co-op is THE classic example). Therefore, dealing with recessions does NOT necessarily require “purging” ourselves of debts through massive spending cuts (and as we’ve seen, that actually makes things worse).

    Our economy is not a morality tale. That our leaders can’t seem to accept that represents a deep psychological problem, for all of us. No, I don’t know how to fix this, but this psychological issue is the root cause.

  68. 68.

    Schlemizel

    April 27, 2012 at 11:39 am

    @Knockabout:
    Perhaps you would be happier reading some other blog – might I kindly suggest you do that and leave us poor morons here, so unworthy of your valuable time, the hell alone?

  69. 69.

    General Stuck

    April 27, 2012 at 11:39 am

    @ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©:

    Sputter away.
    ~

    So you must agree that Obama is responsible for spending cuts and job loss at the state and local level. I’m not the one sputtering here.

    Though I am getting a big headache trying to understand clowns and their clowning around.

    Krugman just isn’t worth the effort to comment on what he blathers from one minute to the next,

  70. 70.

    Tone In DC

    April 27, 2012 at 11:39 am

    @burnspbesq:

    Every so often (admittedly, not very often), the conventional wisdom is wrong. In politics, economics and other areas. Personally, I hope the Greeks, Portuguese, Irish and Spaniards tell Merkel and the French to go jump in the Mediterranean.

    Hope springs eternal. Just ask the Brazilians.

  71. 71.

    burnspbesq

    April 27, 2012 at 11:42 am

    @Brachiator:

    In fairness, a couple of those extenders (like the active financing exception to Subpart F) are sound tax policy.

  72. 72.

    SatanicPanic

    April 27, 2012 at 11:43 am

    @burnspbesq: Bad idea from the start. State’s rights fanatics in the USA either don’t understand what’s going on in Europe or are hoping to reproduce the results here. Not sure which.

  73. 73.

    Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor

    April 27, 2012 at 11:43 am

    @burnspbesq:

    Wrong question. The correct question is “Why shouldn’t the French and German banks bear the consequences of their abandonment of sound underwriting practices?”

    Amen. Nobody held those banks at gunpoint and forced them to go balls-deep into Greek or Spanish debt. If you loan the homeless/jobless guy on the street $200 and try to collect the next week, you deserve whatever outcome you get.

    I disagree with you about the Euro, though. The world needs European unity– the continent has a nasty tendency to drag the rest of us into depressions and wars without it. IMO, getting out of the Euro would be a very… ugly process.

  74. 74.

    beergoggles

    April 27, 2012 at 11:44 am

    Saying Krugman was right about something is tantamount to admitting that DFHs were correct. I do wonder how long it will be before the Greeks and Spanish decide to guillotine their bankers alongside their David Brook’s.

  75. 75.

    Schlemizel

    April 27, 2012 at 11:45 am

    @MobiusKlein:
    Actually that has been changing slowly. Just this week they had a couple of European economists one, one of whom has been saying austerity is a bad idea from the very beginning. They did an extended interview on All Things Considered.

    It was only one point out of many but it is starting to seep in.

  76. 76.

    burnspbesq

    April 27, 2012 at 11:45 am

    @Tone In DC:

    ” I hope the Greeks, Portuguese, Irish and Spaniards tell Merkel and the French to go jump in the Mediterranean”

    I am right there with you on that.

  77. 77.

    superluminar, esq

    April 27, 2012 at 11:45 am

    @burnspbesq:

    The Euro has to go

    This won’t happen, more likely some southern countries will leave. Agree with your comments regarding Germany having to own up to their banks’ insolvency though.

  78. 78.

    Culture of Truth

    April 27, 2012 at 11:48 am

    Spain is in 2nd recession since 2009, and half the young people in the country are out of work.

    As Spain’s debt edges closer to junk, Economy Minister Luis de Guindos expects foreign investors buy assets from banks, and ruled out using public funds to shore up the Spain’s banks.

    “In the case of Ireland it was BlackRock, don’t you think
    BlackRock wants to buy assets in Spain?” he said.

    The jobless rate will peak at 25% and stabilize next year, he said.

  79. 79.

    Steeplejack

    April 27, 2012 at 11:48 am

    @ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©:

    Fail. Stuck is right. You either misread Krugman or are just trolling baiting Stuck.

  80. 80.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    April 27, 2012 at 11:50 am

    @TK-421:

    Our economy is not a morality tale. That our leaders can’t seem to accept that represents a deep psychological problem, for all of us.

    __
    Spot on. The problem is wider than just being a leadership/elite failure. A inability to grasp the difference between macroeconomics and the dynamics of one’s personal household budget is deeply rooted in the general population. Probably less than 5% of the electorate understand Keynesian economics now, and if it were carefully explained to them in detail you might be able to push that number up to 10%. The rest just don’t get it, and for the most part refuse to listen to reason.
    __
    And unfortunately for us all of the people who do get it are already voting for the party which is at least open to the idea of Keynesian policy, because the various schools of macroeconomics have been politicized along partisan lines in ways that are shocking by comparison with say the Eisenhower thru Nixon administrations. Heck, even Reagan was a backdoor Keynesian by comparison with today’s GOP.
    __
    So the pool of potential swing voters who are receptive to a more Keynesian policy is so small as to effectively be a non-factor in our elections, and in a democracy what is to be done if the voters are determined to be idiots?

  81. 81.

    burnspbesq

    April 27, 2012 at 11:50 am

    @Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor:

    “The world needs European unity”

    No disagreement on that point, but I think you can get there without a single currency. In fact, I would argue that the progress toward a single market that has been made over the last 20 years has given you all the unity you need.

  82. 82.

    liberal

    April 27, 2012 at 11:51 am

    @General Stuck:
    Fair enough. Just trying to get a rise out of yah.

  83. 83.

    srv

    April 27, 2012 at 11:53 am

    The economy is going to get going, and put the lie to The Church of Krugman. Psychology is a big component of decisions made by those who have the industrial controls in the private sector. I think they were just waiting to see that someone was doing a little something about what they care about. And that is a lack of concern for sounder over all fiscal policy coming from the government. There really is a “confidence fairy” and it gets happy when the pols manage their financial affairs in a more rounded way. These cuts are not near deep enough, or soon enough to have much effect on economic growth from a demand perspective

    Can anyone guess which commenter?

  84. 84.

    liberal

    April 27, 2012 at 11:55 am

    @Roger Moore:
    The point I’m making is that regardless of how wealthy you are, the capital gains on your residence, primary or not, are completely unearned, since they’re not gains on capital.

  85. 85.

    AxelFoley

    April 27, 2012 at 11:55 am

    ph’nglui mglw’nafh Krugthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn

  86. 86.

    Chris

    April 27, 2012 at 11:55 am

    @The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:

    What’s infuriating is that it only took ONE crisis, and comparatively mild at that, for people to start bleating that Keynesian/liberal/interventionist economics had failed and we were all DOOOOOMED… and that crisis wasn’t even related to Keynes (an Arab oil embargo will wreck your shit no matter whose textbook you’re following).

    And yet no matter how many times the laissez-faire model fails, it’s always “PLEEEEEEAAAAASE, give us another chance we just need MORE laissez-faire economics.” And everyone goes along with it.

  87. 87.

    liberal

    April 27, 2012 at 11:56 am

    @srv:
    Heh.

  88. 88.

    Linda Featheringill

    April 27, 2012 at 11:57 am

    Good post Zandar. I really enjoyed it.

    And probably those people who confused the serious words and the snark also suffer from other cognitive difficulties.

    Keep it up!

  89. 89.

    liberal

    April 27, 2012 at 11:57 am

    @burnspbesq:
    I don’t get the single currency area fetishism either.

    It would be very interesting to see who make accurate claims about the viability of the Euro back when it was introduced.

  90. 90.

    Steve in Iowa

    April 27, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Another failed prediction is that the austerity measures themselves were supposed to make for borrowing on more favorable terms. Only problem is that the lenders decided to raise rates on the austerians. Oops! I guess people who finance public debt don’t like it when you destroy your economy.

  91. 91.

    Marc

    April 27, 2012 at 11:59 am

    Since the economy is actually getting better, for whatever reason, that comment is actually wearing pretty well.

  92. 92.

    PeakVT

    April 27, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    @Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor: For the Euro to survive, the 20+ Eurozone countries would have to implement a system of cross-border fiscal transfers approaching the flows the US sees between states via the Federal Government. I don’t see that happening in the next 30 years. In the meantime, a European currency basically run for one country would continue to produce all kinds of friction.

    Also, European unity won’t go to zero if the Euro is eliminated. There would continue to be all kinds of other cross-border cooperation on regulations, on projects like CERN and ESO, etc.

  93. 93.

    gene108

    April 27, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    @liberal:

    the capital gains on your residence, primary or not, are completely unearned

    ??????????

    Capital gains are treated differently than earned income because capital gains are considered unearned income.

    Should capital gains be taxed at higher rates? Sure. No issues, if that’s the argument you are trying to make.

  94. 94.

    chopper

    April 27, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    @Clime Acts:

    because krugman’s reco came down to this:

    1) we need a way bigger stimulus!
    2) ????
    3) the president signed the bill!

    and there’s a note on the side of the page that says ‘i have found a truly marvelous solution to number 2, which this margin is too narrow to contain.’

  95. 95.

    General Stuck

    April 27, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    @srv:

    I have no problem with what I said in that comment. I think Krugman is right using the ‘confidence fairy’ term for those who are clamoring for immediate spending cuts in a floundering economy, as I define ‘austerity’. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t a confidence fairy, or factor outside of that, such as longer term debt reduction, and that the government cares about dealing with that. Job hiring is done by human persons, not a slide rule. I have made that DELINEATION whenever talking about spending cuts, and so has Obama.

    I try to comment of what Krugman says, and to give credit when it’s due, imo. And I don’t think it’s due when he blames Obama for things not his fault.

    edit – but all this attention from trolls hanging on what seems like my every word, I can’t help but be a little flattered by that. Momma Stuck would be so proud, up there in heaven.

  96. 96.

    Yutsano

    April 27, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    @liberal: The Euro was considered a method of ensuring the European Union would have a firmer backing by giving a sense of all in it together economically as well as politically. The big issues coming to light now are that the EU basically green-lighted everyone who expressed a desire to join regardless of the shape of their economies and taxation structures coupled with inflexible central bank policy. It’s not a bad idea, but it’s failing on the execution side.

  97. 97.

    Brachiator

    April 27, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    @Clime Acts:

    Can one of you BJ Bots explain why the Obama administration has from the beginning rejected Krugman’s economic analysis and the cure(s) he recommends?

    Because while Krugman’s analysis is good, his policy recommendations are too broad to be useful. Krugman is excellent at macro economics, but his recommendations came down to “if there is a deficit of umpteen billion, simply spend umpteen billion to make up the gap.”

    This is obviously blind to political realities, but it is also blind to any idea of where, on a micro level, stimulus might have done the most good.

    In a related way, the conventional wisdom that the stimulus was too small is blind to any reasonable analysis of where the stimulus helped and where it was a waste of time. Quick example, the First Time Home Buyer’s Credit merely slowed, but did nothing to contain the larger housing crisis. But the credit cost $16.2 billion through September, 2010. The expansion of the Earned Income Credit and Child Tax Credit provided more useful bang for the buck, but did not do much to help single or childless low income earners.

    And so it goes.

    The problem wasn’t about following Krugman, it was about having a stronger depth of economic advisors than the Treasury focused team that Obama depended on.

  98. 98.

    Xenos

    April 27, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    The Euro still makes sense for the core countries. Italy ought to stay in, and the periphery needs to escape, and Greece probably needs a complete divorce so it can be the capital of the Balkans, a region that can get unified with Europe in 50 years if it makes sense at that point.

  99. 99.

    chopper

    April 27, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    @Chris:

    exactly. people forget that there was another embargo before that one and it really didn’t effect us much. because at that time our production had just peaked and we were not so dependent on imports. keynesianism did just fine during that one.

    when they tried it again, our production had dropped markedly and our consumption rose to the point that the embargo kicked our asses hard.

  100. 100.

    MobiusKlein

    April 27, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    @Schlemizel: I was listening to Morning Edition, business section. About 7:50 am. So that section tends to not suffer Keynesians gladly.

  101. 101.

    David in NY

    April 27, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    @liberal:

    The point I’m making is that regardless of how wealthy you are, the capital gains on your residence, primary or not, are completely unearned, since they’re not gains on capital.

    That doesn’t make any sense. Gains on a house are unearned, so are gains on other stuff (stocks, paintings, other real estate …). This little side trip has gone off the rails, I think.

  102. 102.

    Martin

    April 27, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    That’s not a fair description of what the Administration did. Political considerations (I.e., the need to get Republican votes to pass any sort of stimulus) led to a stimulus package that was too small and too heavily weighted toward tax relief as opposed to spending. But the Administration got what it could.

    I think that simplifies it a little. Even the Democrats weren’t willing to go with a bigger stimulus at first. There were a number of Dems that expressed that between TARP and the stimulus, $1.5T was as large a number as they could swallow. There was the thinking that if TARP worked and the banks could start paying that money back and they got a sense of what the stimulus would accomplish, that they could approve more stimulus if it was needed.

    Of course, the GOP shut that down based on the teatard freakout. Further, it’s not Obama or Congress’s fault that voters went insane and demanded massive austerity at the state and local level, which is responsible for about 1% of the unemployment rate right there.

  103. 103.

    Nemesis

    April 27, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    War and austerity have something in common.

    If it aint working, you aint doing it right.

    What is needed is MORE and BETTER austerity. Then, you will see results. In fact, the lack of austerity success proves that more austerity is the only cure.

    Like we oft hear about war. You know, if we fully and properly committed to war with plans to completely destroy the opponent, we wouldnt end up with messes like Nam and Iraq.

    Its just the lack of pure conviction which dooms us.

  104. 104.

    japa21

    April 27, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    @Mark S.: Not until the uppity black guy was out of the WH.

  105. 105.

    Brachiator

    April 27, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    In fairness, a couple of those extenders (like the active financing exception to Subpart F) are sound tax policy.

    Agreed, but I figured that going into detail about this would be too “inside baseball” for a general forum.

  106. 106.

    Martin

    April 27, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    @Clime Acts:

    Can one of you BJ Bots explain why the Obama administration has from the beginning rejected Krugman’s economic analysis and the cure(s) he recommends?

    You’re right. It all went to shit when Obama signed that tax pledge with Grover Norquist.

  107. 107.

    Steeplejack

    April 27, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    @Someguy:

    I don’t know where you got your “evidence,” but that story is pretty much wrong from start to finish.

    Krugman on “What Ails Europe?”:

    [. . .] the German story [. . .] is that it’s all about fiscal irresponsibility. This story seems to fit Greece, but nobody else. Italy ran deficits in the years before the crisis, but they were only slightly larger than Germany’s (Italy’s large debt is a legacy from irresponsible policies many years ago). Portugal’s deficits were significantly smaller, while Spain and Ireland actually ran surpluses.
    __
    Oh, and countries that aren’t on the euro seem able to run large deficits and carry large debts without facing any crises. Britain and the United States can borrow long-term at interest rates of around 2 percent; Japan, which is far more deeply in debt than any country in Europe, Greece included, pays only 1 percent.
    __
    [. . .]
    __
    So what does ail Europe? The truth is that the story is mostly monetary. By introducing a single currency without the institutions needed to make that currency work, Europe effectively reinvented the defects of the gold standard–defects that played a major role in causing and perpetuating the Great Depression.
    __
    More specifically, the creation of the euro fostered a false sense of security among private investors, unleashing huge, unsustainable flows of capital into nations all around Europe’s periphery. As a consequence of these inflows, costs and prices rose, manufacturing became uncompetitive, and nations that had roughly balanced trade in 1999 began running large trade deficits instead. Then the music stopped.
    __
    If the peripheral nations still had their own currencies, they could and would use devaluation to quickly restore competitiveness. But they don’t, which means that they are in for a long period of mass unemployment and slow, grinding deflation. Their debt crises are mainly a byproduct of this sad prospect, because depressed economies lead to budget deficits and deflation magnifies the burden of debt.
    __
    Now, understanding the nature of Europe’s troubles offers only limited benefits to the Europeans themselves. The afflicted nations, in particular, have nothing but bad choices: either they suffer the pains of deflation or they take the drastic step of leaving the euro, which won’t be politically feasible until or unless all else fails (a point Greece seems to be approaching). Germany could help by reversing its own austerity policies and accepting higher inflation, but it won’t.

    (Emphasis mine.)

  108. 108.

    David in NY

    April 27, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    You know, I think austerianism has infected this comment thread. There should have been more stimulus, there should still be stimulus. There’s really not much doubt that those things are right. Getting from that to the actual enactment of stimulus was difficult in Obama’s first term and is impossible now. But this latter fact doesn’t make Krugman wrong on the fundamentals. Austerity strangles the economy — just look at England. A little stimulus helps some (see the U.S.), but the more stimulus we can do, the better. Probably in their hearts the Republicans know this too, which is why they so fiercely oppose any stimulus. If only we could get from here to there …

  109. 109.

    Martin

    April 27, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    @Mark S.:

    Geez, I don’t think even Boehner and Willard would be advocating austerity if unemployment were 24%. Europe is like watching a slow-motion train wreck.

    Boehner would have insisted on more direct stimulus had McCain been elected. It’s really that simple. This isn’t a principled stand by the GOP – they have no problem with spending when it’s their guy in the White House.

    But if it’s Obama in the WH and 24% unemployment? Yeah, more tax cuts for the job creators.

  110. 110.

    MattF

    April 27, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    @TK-421: Yep. This was Keynes’ original sin– making the point that leaving pots of money lying around in the streets would help lift an economy out of recession, and no one would go to Hell for doing that. Or even Purgatory, probably.

  111. 111.

    gene108

    April 27, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    @Schlemizel:

    But “government is the problem, not the solution”. Thus spoketh Reagan on his inauguration in 1981, and lo these many years it has come to pass that a huge friggin’ swath of this country has come to believe this is absolutely true 100% of the time.

    Therefore, we no longer live in an era, where solutions that worked in prior decades can be possible.

    Many voters feel we should “drown government in a bath tub” and let the chips fall where they may.

    I don’t know how to change folks minds, but like racist or homophobic attitudes in the “Greatest Generation”, I think we may just have to wait for time to run its course.

  112. 112.

    Someguy

    April 27, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    @Steeplejack:

    Germany could help by reversing its own austerity policies and accepting higher inflation, but it won’t.

    So, in other words, if Germany is willing to inflict heavy inflation on is people and start spending much more than it collects in tax revenue – for the common good of course – it will fix everything.

    Sure, why not. I don’t see how high inflation in Germany, inflicted by agreement of a number of foreign governments, could possibly go wrong.

  113. 113.

    Culture of Truth

    April 27, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    why the Obama administration has from the beginning rejected Krugman’s economic analysis
    False.

  114. 114.

    The Bobs

    April 27, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    @Face: You realize that nachos are an American food? And that Spain and Mexico are entirely different countries?

  115. 115.

    Frankensteinbeck

    April 27, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Mighty Krugthulhu has of course been saying this for a while now, and all but ignored in the halls of power.

    I have a problem with this statement. Krugman is absolutely right that austerity is not what we need right now. It was baldly obvious to anyone but a TV pundit, although I thank him for beating that drum so the message gets out to the non-economically inclined.

    It is not being all but ignored in the halls of power. The ONLY reason there has not been more stimulus at the federal level is that the Republican Party swore a suicide pact to destroy Obama. We’ve been complaining about that fact for four years now, haven’t we? Blue Dogs tipped the balance when we had more power, but the pattern has been baldly obvious. The GOP will try any trick, exploit any loophole, fuck any chicken, to sink the economy and make Obama look bad. They don’t give a rat’s ass about austerity, they hate Obama with a mouth-frothing insanity. They generally don’t like the safety net, but assholes like Ryan are just useful figureheads to try and kill the economy to make an example out of the black man in the White House.

    I personally am deeply thankful we’ve got a president who’s such a skilled negotiator, because he’s fought them to a draw over and over these last two years when they had all the advantages.

  116. 116.

    PeakVT

    April 27, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    @Someguy: The idea that inflation caused the Nazis isn’t true. NSDAP had only a very few seats (12, I think) in the parliament in 1928; in 1930 that exploded to 100, and 200 in 1932, due to the Great Depression, which was meet by the German government with – you guessed it – austerity. The hyperinflation in Germany was over by 1924 and its economy did pretty well until it was sucked into a global recession.

  117. 117.

    Steeplejack

    April 27, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    @Someguy:

    “Higher inflation” does not automatically equal “heavy inflation.” And, as for the Germans being martyrs to the “common good,” they willingly donned the euro straitjacket with everyone else and have been by far its biggest beneficiaries.

    As for the story line in your original post, it doesn’t help to perpetuate the myth that Europe’s current crisis is entirely the result of irresponsible (socialist!) governments pissing away (someone else’s hard-earned) money. The other part of Krugman’s piece (which I didn’t quote) deals with that.

  118. 118.

    Brachiator

    April 27, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    @Martin:

    Even the Democrats weren’t willing to go with a bigger stimulus at first. There were a number of Dems that expressed that between TARP and the stimulus, $1.5T was as large a number as they could swallow. There was the thinking that if TARP worked and the banks could start paying that money back and they got a sense of what the stimulus would accomplish, that they could approve more stimulus if it was needed.

    But bigger isn’t always better. From the beginning, the stimulus was used not to create new jobs, but to shore up weak state economies and help the states balance their budgets. Jobs were preserved, but the overall stimulus effect was a lot weaker than many are willing to admit.

    And if anyone really thought they could come back to the well and ask for more stimulus,they clearly were not paying attention. The rise of the Tea Party People in the Congress insured that the Republicans would control the budget, and this, along with partisan rancor, made asking for any subsequent stimulus impossible.

  119. 119.

    PeakVT

    April 27, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    @Face: “notches” is marketspeak for bond credit rating levels (AAA, AA+, BB, etc.). Many entities are limited on how many lower-grade bonds they can invest in. Fewer bidders for a class of bonds means higher interest rates for an issuer (all other things being equal), which most governments are on a regular basis because they have to roll over portions of their debt every month or so.

  120. 120.

    AA+ Bonds

    April 27, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    The Paulers have gone absolutely ape shit on the comments there: non stop moralizing about ‘prudence’, fantasies about FDR causing the Great Depression, and stupidity casting all inflationary policy as theft even when too-high inflation is not a serious risk and unemployment is annihilating future gains

    These cultists will destroy us if we let them

  121. 121.

    superluminar, esq

    April 27, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    @David in NY: I’m not seeing Austerianism taking over this thread, at all. I think most people here reject that kind of analaysis as fucking stupid from the outset. Please provied some alternative evidence.

  122. 122.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 27, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    @MattF:

    This was Keynes’ original sin—making the point that leaving pots of money lying around in the streets would help lift an economy out of recession, and no one would go to Hell for doing that.

    His secondary sin was the advocacy of a euthanasia of the rentiers.

    The rentiers run this economy right now for their own benefit and that of no one else.

    Again, the French came up with a treatment for this disease more than two centuries ago.

  123. 123.

    Bokonon

    April 27, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Keynsian economics work, but the Europeans (and to a lesser extent, the U.S.) are not choosing them for a reason. We are making a deliberate policy choice to pursue austerity … and preserve capital and prevent inflation … rather than do things that will actually spur growth and hiring.

    As Krugman keeps pointing out, that is a CHOICE rather than our central bankers and policy makers having an actual lack of options. And all the framing that that austerity policies are somehow a morality issue (in a field littered with moral hazards) just shows this isn’t really a pragmatic choice about what really works.

    Someday, about thirty years from now, someone smart will be able to look back and write a brilliant analysis about why it was that smart people adopted contrarian, Austrian-style economic ideologies and then fiercely held on to them like a faith, despite the hard numbers that the resulting policies weren’t working.

    But I strongly suspect that when you untangle things, the answer will all be about money and influence – and who it is that writes the paychecks for those financial columnists and economists who have headed down that contrarian road, and who it is that has big enough influence on governments to make them focus on capital preservation and risk avoidance rather than growth. Those people and institutions are the real “confidence fairies” that are swinging this debate. And we won’t call them by name. We just refer to them as abstractions.

  124. 124.

    AA+ Bonds

    April 27, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    @Someguy:

    At what point do Germany and France cut off the nations that are essentially holding them hostage?

    LOLLLLLLLL

  125. 125.

    AA+ Bonds

    April 27, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    What ‘austerity’ is really about is material exploitation combined with utter contempt for the ability of the masses to produce and guide production, practiced as a class warfare strategy by capitalists

    Sadly neither liberals nor economists, even Keynesians and semi-Keynesians such as Krugman, are immune to the inevitably blindered perspective of the bourgeoisie

  126. 126.

    AA+ Bonds

    April 27, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Of course it would take some effort to come up with fire and brimstone flatulence more thick-headed than ‘malinvestment’ – the Austrians can always be counted on to turn economics into a televangelist sermon

  127. 127.

    AA+ Bonds

    April 27, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    “You did the wrong thing, you stupid proles,” moans the Austrian. “I hope you have the common sense to blame democracy!”

  128. 128.

    liberal

    April 27, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    @David in NY:
    I’m using “unearned” in an economic sense, not an accounting sense.

    If you produce value through labor or capital, you’ve made a contribution to production and thus have “earned” it. Here I’m referring to capital in the sense of classical economics, not the bastardized sense of neoclassical economics.

    If you reap gains through collecting economic rents, you’ve contributed absolutely nothing to production, and your gain is entirely unearned.

  129. 129.

    Some Loser

    April 27, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    @Brachiator:

    So you are saying the stimulus was weak to begin with because we had to prop up state governments? And then the states drunk the austerity kool-aid in 2010 . . .

  130. 130.

    liberal

    April 27, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Jobs were preserved, but the overall stimulus effect was a lot weaker than many are willing to admit.

    Depends. It was understood from the outset that certain parts of the stimulus package were not going to have large multipliers.

    Krugman et al. claim with reasonable evidence that it worked pretty much as it they would have predicted.

  131. 131.

    liberal

    April 27, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    @Brachiator:

    From the beginning, the stimulus was used not to create new jobs, but to shore up weak state economies and help the states balance their budgets.

    Huh? Presumably money sent to states kept state employees on the payroll, which would be a very effective stimulus measure, given that states pretty much can’t deficit-spend.

  132. 132.

    liberal

    April 27, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    @Some Loser:
    I think Brachiator’s point about money sent to states is wrong. About states drinking the cool aid, Krugman claims that the ones who’ve really drunk it are the really Republican ones.

  133. 133.

    Some Loser

    April 27, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    So, yeah. If we ever do acquire another stimulus package, where would we distribute the money? A fairly sizable chunk would have to go to weaker states just to slow their declines, right? Where else would we put the money?

  134. 134.

    liberal

    April 27, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    Political considerations (I.e., the need to get Republican votes to pass any sort of stimulus) led to a stimulus package that was too small and too heavily weighted toward tax relief as opposed to spending.

    No, the record is pretty clear that they stupidly thought they’d get another bite at the apple. Krugman actually predicted this in advance, in real time.

    You can argue that it doesn’t matter because they wouldn’t have gotten it, but the fact is they dropped the ball badly on that one.

  135. 135.

    Mino

    April 27, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    Well, our economy is gonna get a couple extra billion injected into it over the next six months as some of all that capital sitting on the sidelines is expended in the election. Rather ironic, isn’t it.

  136. 136.

    Steeplejack

    April 27, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    @Some Loser:

    Just start shoveling away on the ASCE’s (civil engineers) wish list of infrastructure projects.

  137. 137.

    General Stuck

    April 27, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    @Mino:

    Well, our economy is gonna get a couple extra billion injected into it over the next six months as some of all that capital sitting on the sidelines is expended in the election. Rather ironic, isn’t it.

    Never thought of it that way. Pretty brilliant of you to put that together. The Citizens United stimulus program. One small step for man, one giant leap for Peak Wingnut.

  138. 138.

    Linda Featheringill

    April 27, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    @Mino:

    Well, our economy is gonna get a couple extra billion injected into it over the next six months as some of all that capital sitting on the sidelines is expended in the election. Rather ironic, isn’t it.

    So Rove’s PAC will help the economy overall, which will help Obama? Cool!

    All kidding aside, you may have a point there. If the tons of dough spent by Republican PACs improve Obama’s chances by 1%, that might be enough.

    [“Happy days are here again . .. “]

  139. 139.

    AA+ Bonds

    April 27, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    @Mino:

    Too bad that spending is far too small to have any real effect – and as those familiar with the industry know, a surprising amount of that cash will flee the country through contractors

  140. 140.

    AA+ Bonds

    April 27, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    For all the errors of Marxians, they have a lot of solid answers for this ‘why’ question that everyone from the Von Mises cult to MMT has real problems answering

  141. 141.

    Citizen Alan

    April 27, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    @The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:

    Science Reality is always made to conform to politics, where politics is almost never required to conform to science reality anymore.

    Fixed that for ya. Seriously, what’s to be done when half the nation rejects objective fact in favor of politically convenient fiction. One of the later posts deals with whining about Obama’s vacations. I’d bet good money that a poll would show a plurality of Americans now believe that Obama has taken more vacation time than Bush.

  142. 142.

    Brachiator

    April 27, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    @Some Loser:

    So you are saying the stimulus was weak to begin with because we had to prop up state governments?

    No, I am saying that much of every portion of the stimulus, from tax credits to state bailouts, did little more than try to maintain a shaky status quo. Another major portion of the stimulus, the education credits, may bear fruit in the future, but have little immediate impact. And the promoters of the stimulus underestimated the degree to which states needed shoring up. Apart from the idea of infrastructure spending, which met a lot of opposition, most of the details on how the stimulus would be deployed represented a massive failure of imagination.

    @liberal:

    Huh? Presumably money sent to states kept state employees on the payroll, which would be a very effective stimulus measure, given that states pretty much can’t deficit-spend.

    The stimulus was sold as a job creator. While preserving some jobs may have been a good thing, you still ended up confusing and disappointing voters.

    And in California, the stimulus money did little more than kick the problem of the larger state structural deficit down the road. And you are still ending up with layoffs and reductions in service.

    RE: Jobs were preserved, but the overall stimulus effect was a lot weaker than many are willing to admit.

    Depends. It was understood from the outset that certain parts of the stimulus package were not going to have large multipliers.
    __
    Krugman et al. claim with reasonable evidence that it worked pretty much as it they would have predicted.

    Really? Where was this shown? A great deal of the First Time and Long Time Home Buyer Credit was money down a rat hole. We are already seeing homes bought with First Time credit money being lost through foreclosure. The increased adoption credit, while worthy socially, does nothing to stimulate jobs. The increased business credits for accelerated depreciation and extended net operating losses have done little to increase the success of small businesses or create new jobs.

    Where has Krugman or anyone else done a comprehensive review of the impact of the specific stimulus programs on the economy, and their impact on jobs and wages, as opposed to the typical macro stuff such as GDP?

  143. 143.

    burnspbesq

    April 27, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    @liberal:

    If you reap gains through collecting economic rents, you’ve contributed absolutely nothing to production, and your gain is entirely unearned.

    Economic rents don’t magically appear from out the arse of a unicorn. There was an investment made and risk taken, and those things get a return. Even Marx understood that.

  144. 144.

    PurpleGirl

    April 27, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Over the last two decades or so many states and localities adopted Balanced Budget Amendments. Therefore when state and local revenues shrank, they had to let people go and cut programs. I’m not saying this is right or good, just that it happened. And they adopted these rules because the Republicans (and some Democrats) convinced people that government budgets were “just like” personal budgets. (People forget that once upon a time, they were told in school that governments should borrow money for long-term infrastructure projects and the like.) We are seeing the results of those policy ideas now.

  145. 145.

    Tone In DC

    April 27, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Amen to that.

  146. 146.

    Ben Wolf

    April 27, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    @AA+ Bonds: What “why” questions would those be?

  147. 147.

    AA+ Bonds

    April 27, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Overall, ‘states’ in the American sense have panned out horribly as anything but incubators for fascism

  148. 148.

    Mino

    April 27, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    @AA+ Bonds: There is surprisingly little critical study of the affect of campaign spending on an economy.

    One, based on an analysis of a general Philippine election, suggested an one-half percent increase in GDP, which is nothing to sneeze at.

    A retail analysis in this country of elections since the 60’s found a correlation in higher retail sales.

    Citizens United spending in this election will dwarf anything ever seen before, so we’re in new territory.

  149. 149.

    AA+ Bonds

    April 27, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    @Ben Wolf:

    Why policy makers appear to be acting like suicidal morons when it comes to growth strategies

    Marxian perspective argues that the material conditions of the bourgeoisie as a class move them and us toward crisis despite any good intentions (even if you dispense with the orthodox Marxist idea that as a class, they simply cannot help but see the world in a disastrously limited way)

  150. 150.

    TK-421

    April 27, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    There was an investment made and risk taken, and those things get a return

    Except that if your risk is eliminated via, say, massive infusions of free money to underwrite your bad debts, losses, etc., then in fact there was no risk and therefore no justification for the risk premium.

    Just sayin’.

  151. 151.

    El Cid

    April 27, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    We have to stop all the damn spendin’, ’cause the inflation’s eating us up. Or it will. Or at least we might have to keep predicting terrible Weimar Germany hyper-inflation, because I heard on the radio machine that that’s what happens when governments spend money.

  152. 152.

    AA+ Bonds

    April 27, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    @Mino:

    It will be interesting to see and you have made sure that I will watch (although I doubt even we could match the intertwining of cash and politics in Manila; I will have to check how conservative those measures were)

  153. 153.

    Ben Wolf

    April 27, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    @AA+ Bonds: No offense, but “Marxian” (Marxist?) perspectives on the material conditions of the bourgeoisie have little application without an understanding of how our system actually functions. Hence you get the Krugmanesque obssession with symptomatic spending rather than the underlying disease.

  154. 154.

    Mino

    April 27, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    @AA+ Bonds: Marxians should not be throwing stones from their own glass houses. Did they ever solve their problem of power transforming revolutionaries into the worst of bourgeoisie overnight?

  155. 155.

    El Cid

    April 27, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    @Mino:

    Did they ever solve their problem of power transforming revolutionaries into the worst of bourgeoisie overnight?

    Many uses of the term “Marxian” or “Marxist” refer to Marx’s work in diagnostic studies, i.e., a study of capitalism, which included views of how society changes and must change (according to what he viewed as lawlike theoretical consequences).

    Plenty of people think that Marx contributed to the understanding of class interests and conflicts and societal changes in capitalist countries without overdoing it (turning his writings into a new Bible, as many did), or who are less interested in Marx’s brief and fairly threadbare suggestions about what to do differently.

    Plenty of anti-authoritarian revolutionary soshullists respected Marx’s analytic works while opposing much of what he recommended or engaged in during his active political life.

    Unfortunately, a lot of people also seem to think that only Marxians or Marxists engaged in or engage in analysis involving class conflict in capitalist societies. This isn’t the case. American class power and elite mobilization sociologists C. Wright Mills and G. William Domhoff differ greatly from many root Marxist assumptions, but still outline a model of US power based in overall upper-class domination based within economic class power.

    So “Marxian” may refer to class conflict analyses similar to those of Marx (in a general sense) or to specific arguments adopted from Marx, but you never really know.

  156. 156.

    Anoniminous

    April 27, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    Not if the “investor” (sic) can use their monopoly power and/or the State to force people to give them money.

    ETA: And what @TK-421 said. Also. Too.

  157. 157.

    Ben Wolf

    April 27, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    @El Cid: What specific economic policy recommendations have emerged from Marxian thought?

  158. 158.

    David in NY

    April 27, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    @superluminar, esq: I certainly exaggerated.

  159. 159.

    Anoniminous

    April 27, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    @Ben Wolf:

    Social Democracy, for one.

  160. 160.

    Mino

    April 27, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    @El Cid: Reading the wiki entry on Mills reminded me he was before his time:…that the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. were ruled by similar bureaucratic power elites and thus were convergent rather than divergent societies.

    We need more Wobblies nowadays.

  161. 161.

    Mino

    April 27, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    @Anoniminous: Which seems, at least in Europe, to be devolving into our disease, welfare capitalism.

  162. 162.

    Ben Wolf

    April 27, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    @Anoniminous: Social Democracy is neither specific, nor an economic policy. It’s a political concept. I’m trying to understand exactly what Marxians propose economically without leaning on political rhetoric. AA+ Bonds has argued that MMT/MMR is the same as the Austrian school (an accusation which in itself is bizarre), so I want to know where such an assertion comes from in economic terms.

  163. 163.

    TK-421

    April 27, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    @General Stuck:

    I think Krugman is right using the ‘confidence fairy’ term for those who are clamoring for immediate spending cuts in a floundering economy, as I define ‘austerity’. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t a confidence fairy, or factor outside of that, such as longer term debt reduction, and that the government cares about dealing with that. Job hiring is done by human persons, not a slide rule.

    In defense of but also mild correction of what you’re saying: yes, confidence plays a HUGE role in our economic growth. If people and businesses are scared/not confident about the future, they will get dinosaur arms and hoard…which then makes things worse, not better.

    But there is a big difference between people’s and businesses’ economic confidence about the future, and economic confidence that results from reducing government debt (i.e. “the confidence fairy”). In the real world, nobody gives a shit about the deficit. In the long run we should, but we don’t. Thus the mythical “fairy” aspect to that type of confidence.

    You yourself make that distinction, but you don’t do it very well. Don’t say “yes there is a confidence fairy” when you actually mean “yes economic confidence matters.” The “confidence fairy” is its own term with its own definition, and you shouldn’t try to redefine it on your own. Use better words instead.

  164. 164.

    Anoniminous

    April 27, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    @Mino:

    IMO, you can delete the “seems.” The Labour Parties Third Way is little more than window dressing for Neo-Liberal policies.

    @Ben Wolf:

    ?

    Did you read the link?

  165. 165.

    Ben Wolf

    April 27, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    @Anoniminous: From the opening line of your link:

    Social democracy is officially a reformist democratic socialist political ideology.

    Again, political and neither specific nor purely economic.

  166. 166.

    gaz

    April 27, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    Economic rents don’t magically appear from out the arse of a unicorn. There was an investment made and risk taken, and those things get a return. Even Marx understood that.

    This seems to support liberal’s analogy of capital gains, I think. It’s not true on paper, but how is it much different than capital gains on substance?

  167. 167.

    gaz

    April 27, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    @gaz: ETA: Maybe I don’t quite understand capital gains. Is it in fact strictly interest? or is that just a quaint notion in – and in practice it’s actual investments that can then get flagged as capital gains through smart accounting? The latter is what I’ve basically come to understand that a bulk of it is (at least for the wealthy). I don’t know for sure, because I’ve never made enough money to have to worry myself too much about it.

  168. 168.

    General Stuck

    April 27, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    @TK-421:

    You yourself make that distinction, but you don’t do it very well. Don’t say “yes there is a confidence fairy” when you actually mean “yes economic confidence matters.” The “confidence fairy” is its own term with its own definition, and you shouldn’t try to redefine it on your own. Use better words instead.

    LOLwut?

  169. 169.

    burnspbesq

    April 27, 2012 at 4:47 pm

    @gaz:

    Capital gain is gain from the sale or other disposition of a capital asset. In the Internal Revenue Code, “capital asset” is defined residually: anything that’s not enumerated in Section 1221 is a capital asset. The biggest carve out is for property held for sale to customers in the ordinary course of a trade or business.

    ETA: that’s oversimplified, but it will get you started.

  170. 170.

    AA+ Bonds

    April 27, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    @Ben Wolf:

    AA+ Bonds has argued that MMT/MMR is the same as the Austrian school

    No, I have not

  171. 171.

    AA+ Bonds

    April 27, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    @Mino:

    You are confusing Marxian analysis with Marxist Communism

    Oh okay I see this was thoroughly covered above, thanks folks

  172. 172.

    AA+ Bonds

    April 27, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    I think I should point out to anyone who doesn’t read me on here that I am no Marxist and would be surprised if any Marxist would appreciate how I perceive the importance of the utility of envy in political economy

    Some people in the Marxian tradition might be interested, but I wouldn’t bet money on it

    The net result is that liberals think I am a Marxist and Marxists are quite sure I am a liberal; this pleases me because I am a difficult and bratty person, but really, I am closer to Hobbes than either position, with a wary eye to the empirical problems of orthodox Hobbesianism

  173. 173.

    AA+ Bonds

    April 27, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    None of this is terribly important but I don’t claim to speak for Marxian thinkers and I suggest liberals start with the approachable and sexy work of David Harvey and his lectures on Capital, or some of the folks at Jacobin, who have sort of declared their goal to become the equivalent of Ezra Klein only not stupid

    All of these folks will expect you to bring your skepticism to the table

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

On The Road - beckya57 - Copper Canyon, Mexico, April 2025 6
Image by beckya57 (6/19/25)

Recent Comments

  • Kayla Rudbek on Late Night Open Thread: Another Musk Rocket Goes Boom (Jun 20, 2025 @ 12:34am)
  • moonbat on Late Night Open Thread: Another Musk Rocket Goes Boom (Jun 20, 2025 @ 12:30am)
  • Shalimar on Late Night Open Thread: Another Musk Rocket Goes Boom (Jun 20, 2025 @ 12:30am)
  • Kayla Rudbek on Open Thread: ICE Melting Down, Just A Bit? (Jun 20, 2025 @ 12:29am)
  • Shalimar on Late Night Open Thread: Another Musk Rocket Goes Boom (Jun 20, 2025 @ 12:27am)

Personality Crisis Podcast (Cole, DougJ, mistermix)

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
No Kings Protests June 14 2025

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)
Fix Nyms with Apostrophes

Social Media

Balloon Juice
WaterGirl
TaMara
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
DougJ NYT Pitchbot
mistermix

Keeping Track

Legal Challenges (Lawfare)
Republicans Fleeing Town Halls (TPM)
21 Letters (to Borrow or Steal)
Search Donations from a Brand

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2025 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!