Seems Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia is kinda ambivalent about what that whole (D) thing after his name in the papers means, and he’s not the only one.
Three prominent West Virginia Democrats said Monday that they would skip the party’s national convention in Charlotte, N.C., this September over concerns that links to the party could hurt their re-election chances.
Sen. Joe Manchin, Rep. Nick Rahall, and Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin all said they would avoid the convention, according to the West Virginia Metro News.
“I intend to spend this fall focused on the people of West Virginia, whether that’s representing them in my official U.S. Senate duties or here at home, where I can hear about their concerns and ideas to solve the problems of this great nation,” said Manchin in a statement. “I will remain focused on bringing people together for the next generation, not the next election.”The announcements come after Manchin and Tomblin both indicated earlier this year that they were not sure they would personally support President Obama’s re-election effort.
“The people in West Virginia, they basically look at the candidates — whatever you’re running for, whether it be the president itself, or whatever — [they look at] the performance and the result that’s been attained,” Manchin told the National Journal in April. “Right now in West Virginia, these first three and a half years haven’t been that good to West Virginia. So, then you look [at] what the options will be, who will be on the other end.”
I suppose “That boy ain’t our President” might have been misconstrued as too gauche. And every time I think Kentucky has the worst Democrats in office (hello Dinosaur Steve Beshear), the boys from ’round Charleston way show up to take a big dump in the punchbowl.
kindness
Jesus. Hey John, you at least gotta run a spoof or something on Manchin to make him feel foolish. I know, I know. It’s an unpossible thing but try you must.
JGabriel
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I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: I think our history books are wrong.
I mean, I learned that West Virginia fought on the side of the Union in the Civil War. But given the behavior of WV’s voters and politicians, they must have been a Confederate state, right?
.
Ash Can
Gee, Joe, do you suppose that may partly be because West Virginia has a bunch of ineffective hacks for political leaders?
The Ancient Randonneur
In the immortal words of Vizzini: Inconceivable!
ornery_curmudgeon
I think we have it in us to blame this squarely on Ralph Nader, with a side dressing of name-calling and bile ftw.
In fact I know we can: scapegoating doesn’t require the subject goat’s input, or guilt even. We just need the traditional combination of ignorance and smug hostility; not a problem unfortunately.
Dem ‘progressives’ helped the establishment finally, finally rid themselves of a meddlesome advocate for the middle class; why they would respect our ‘movement’ or stand up for people who attack their own side?
Ask Spitzer, he knows.
Patricia Kayden
Well, at least he’s being honest. Even before Manchin got elected to the Senate, he was anti-Obama, so this is no surprise.
Omnes Omnibus
@ornery_curmudgeon: You seem bitter.
JenJen
Ever consider crossing the river and joining us, Zandar? At least we have Sherrod Brown over here.
Zandar
@JenJen: True.
And you also have significantly higher taxes.
On the other hand, it may be worth it as long as it’s not Warren County.
Omnes Omnibus
@JenJen: You make it sound like a cult.
TTT
@Ornery: Ralph Nader is a narcissistic sellout coasting on 40-year-gone laurels, no better than Lieberman or Ferraro. If he hadn’t invented seatbelts, someone else would have.
KyCole
We might not have the worst Democrats, but we sure have the worst Senators!
FlipYrWhig
Just like one of the prominent ways Jewish people experience Jewishness is to be totally nonobservant, one of the ways Democrats in certain area signal their Democratness is to reject the party’s agenda. And a hell of a lot of voters like them better for it. And they’re still miles better than the alternatives.
SFAW
I thought that was Al Gore(?)
middlewest
Oh, look, a bunch of greedy red state motherfuckers sucking up my taxes while whining that the government hasn’t done enough for them.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Why don’t these fuckers just switch to the Republican Party? If going to the Democratic National Convention is bad for them, what’s the point?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@ornery_curmudgeon:
Naah, we can blame it on Nader supporters like yourself, ok? Does being derided as an idiot who gladly throws away their vote make you feel better than everyone else?
Keep flogging that pile of dust that used to be a dead horse, I think Nader is still moving.
mk3872
Why in the world would those 3 WV doofuses run as Democrats?
And why would the Democratic Party still support them at all if they can’t even support a Democratic president and show up at the convention?
Makes no sense
Davis X. Machina
Joe “Nighthorse” Manchin
rikyrah
the Dems don’t need to give them any money. let him get funding on their own.
PeterJ
@TTT:
Ralph Nader did a lot of things, like spoiling the 2000 election. One thing he didn’t do was inventing the seat belt.
ohsuzanna
I think that this may not play as well as those gentlemen think. A lack of loyalty (or as Molly Ivans said, a failure “to dance with them that brung ya”) can be viewed as a character flaw as well. For me, I find a basic lack of loyalty (and by that I do not mean the “loyalty at all costs” lockstep) a real turnoff. It shows a lack of character and lack of backbone – not qualities I want in my representatives.
A$$hats.
AxelFoley
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:
Seriously. At least Artur Davis had the decency to switch parties. This inbred fucker Machin keeps kneecapping his own party.
Punchy
THIS. Trash Manchin all you want, but he mostly caucuses with the Dems. When all you Purity Progs get your wish and he flips, they’ll get the Senate, they’ll vote out the filly, and now their 51 votes will get shit passed.
He’s a scumbag Dem, but he’s (at the moment) still not a Republican. Not sure why it’s so hard to figgy this out.
woozy
This is all about coal
Zagloba
I wrote this yesterday before even hearing about this little tantrum/stunt, but it’s strangely a bit relevant.
Also, too, Delong:
Comrade Dread
These types of politic
Bulworth
@woozy: How specifically?
kindness
@Punchy:
So at what point does someone deserve to be called out and not supported by the party establishment and people? What line needs to be crossed? And your ‘he mostly caucuses with the Dems’ point? Bullshit. He caucuses with Democrats when doling out money. As far as all the important planks of being a Democrat, nada. Not one.
So call us purity trolls but this is exactly how change occurs. You tell the person you don’t agree with that you don’t agree with them and won’t support them unless they change their ways. Otherwise you end up with Liebermans which not only aren’t helpful but actually hurt your cause because they allow the other party to point at you and tell you your own people think you suck.
What about this is difficult to understand? I in California don’t expect West Virginia to nominate/elect a blazing liberal. I do expect the local Democratic party to nominate and actual Democrat. This isn’t purity trollism. This is bare minimum.
geg6
@Bulworth:
Because, other than Jay Rockefeller who is much too rich to give a shit, there isn’t a politician in West Virginia that isn’t completely and utterly owned by Big Coal, perhaps?
Bulworth
Has Obama initiated new coal regulations that would cause support for himself or the national Democratic party to decline in WVA? Do WV folks think Dems are too connected to environmental groups generally?
kindness
I’m no one to talk really. Where I live I get a choice of either being represented by a Blue Dog or a teahaddist Republican. Most years I hold my nose & pull the lever. This year I get to bitch about Diane Feinstein. I’ve said I would never vote for her again many times and I have no doubt I will end up voting for her. Why? Because the alternative is worse.
At some point, the alternative isn’t worse though.
Zandar
@Punchy:
Oh I’d vote for Manchin if I had to. I live in KY, the best Dem we’ve had in years was effing Dan Mongiardo, and he makes Blanche Lincoln look like Alan Grayson.
Doesn’t mean I won’t call the fuckers out when they earn my wrath.
FlipYrWhig
@kindness: The issue isn’t what the Democrats of WV should do, it’s what they already have done. They apparently decided that the candidates they like best do things like this. And that’s also why there’s no way to discipline them. Take a shot at primarying them and see what happens.
@Zagloba: I don’t get why DeLong is so sure it’s a disastrous strategy for election or reelection. There are a lot of states where the Democrats, ones who proudly call themselves Democrats, are significantly to the right of any Democratic president. Their strategy is to say that there is still a place in the Democratic party for their views and their approaches. They are hampered by association with presidential liberalism, so they don’t always win when they run for national office, but their niche is to be the Democrat Red-Staters Can Tolerate. And there are enough registered Democrats in those states that the candidate who flatters them can still win. People like Manchin, Beshear, Bredesen, and Beebe don’t want to leave the Democratic party, they want to claim or reclaim it for a political philosophy contrary to Obama’s, Kerry’s, or Gore’s.
FlipYrWhig
@kindness: I’m not sure the alternative is ever not worse, though. Even at the level of staff, any nominal Democrat isn’t going to surround himself with people from Liberty and Regent and Patrick Henry, crusading true believers. When any Republican wins, dozens of gremlins flock to his side. We need to keep them away from law and justice.
kindness
@FlipYrWhig: I understand that I just wish the onus was on the Democratic Candidate who disses Democratic ideals rather than the other way around. While in the end you would vote for them in this case, it’s OK to point out that the candidate sucks. Much like what Manchin is doing with Obama. Just put the shoe on the other foot and don’t be embarrassed for sticking up for your own party damn it.
The Other Chuck
And yet the DNC will back up dumptrucks full of money to these guys up to the inevitable day that they switch parties. Why should they behave any different? And why would I ever give the DNC a dime?
TooManyJens
@Punchy: I devoutly hope we do not start calling the filibuster “the filly.”
The Other Chuck
@kindness:
Right, because the likes of Manchin are running to the left of Obama and decrying his tepid support of Democratic ideals?
Mmm hmm. Manchin’s free to say what he wants, the party doesn’t get to kick him out, but neither is he owed their undying loyalty or support.
khead
@geg6:
Pretty much.
One thing though…. Jay ran as an anti-strip mining candidate in ’72 and lost. He never made that mistake again.
Phil Perspective
@Ash Can: And Manchin is too stupid to know that Obama isn’t causing West Virginia’s problems, it’s the cheap abundance of natural gas(thanks to fracking!!).
khead
When (if?) Manchin endorses Obama I will agree with you. But I sure as shit ain’t holding my breath ’til then.
Not only has Manchin been an asshole towards Obama, he’s been pretty disingenuous about it too. Coal jobs in WV are at their highest since I left the state in 1992. Plus, it’s natural gas that is kicking coal’s ass right now, but all I hear from WV politicians is “Obama’s War on Coal”.
It must’ve killed the poor soul that had to admit that jobs are up in this op-ed piece from southern WV’s wingnut paper, the BDT. The final line about how coal would be EVEN MORE BETTER GREATER without Obama is awesome.
Phil Perspective
@FlipYrWhig: Yeah, but is Manchin any different than Obama? Not at all!! They are both too comfortable with corporate stooges. And Manchin doesn’t want to admit that fracking and the resultant natural gas is his problem, not Obama supposedly bashing coal. In fact, Obama was a big supporter of “clean coal” when in the Senate.
FlipYrWhig
@Phil Perspective: From a left perspective, Obama isn’t liberal enough, and Manchin is even worse. But there aren’t that many people who come at politics from that perspective. There are many more, especially in the Sun Belt and Rust Belt, who think that Obama is far too liberal and why oh why can’t he be more like Democrats of old who looked out for the little guy instead of dishing out goodies to moochers, blacks, and illegals.
There are holdout Dixiecrats and business-friendly budget-balancing technocrats who have a lot of power in Democratic circles in some of these states. If we want some mix of liberalism, populism, and social progressivism instead, we need to pick them off, internally, and show that candidates to their left can win these seats.
Like early Protestants insisting that their church wasn’t an upstart reaction against Catholicism but the true Church Catholics had corrupted, these Democrats believe that their Democratic bona fides is stronger and righter than the liberalism that led their party to a ruinous place.
I would guess that Manchin would say that he’s more in line with what Democrats ought to be than Obama is. He doesn’t (yet?) want to be a Republican, he wants to dig in in defense of Real Democrats. That’s why arguments about how all Democrats should at a minimum believe in X aren’t going to work on him. He has his own definition, and thinks Obama violates it repeatedly.
So you can’t persuade him to be more like our kind of Democrat because that’s the base, or the truth, or the tradition. He’d deny all of that. Instead you’d need to get a more liberal style of Democrat to beat him, thus showing that his kind of Democrat is outnumbered. I have grave doubts about the success of that strategy, but YMMV.
khead
@FlipYrWhig:
Maybe. I’m not really sure.
Having said that…..
Fuck him. It’s 5 electoral votes.
So let’s find out about that strategy…..
JenJen
@Zandar: Or Clermont County, or Butler County. I live and work in Hamilton County, so I’m still pretty cool. :-)
I’m always amazed, being just across the river from you, watching Kentuckians vote against their own self interests every. single. election. Not that Ohio gets it right every time (*cough* 2004 *cough*), of course, but it really was pretty awesome when we smacked Kasich around on that SB5 bullshit!
FlipYrWhig
@khead: I’d be all for it. Find someone from a miners’ union or something. Or try the Bobby Kennedy-goes-to-Appalachia thing again. Come up with another way to connect with the people of WV. But my hunch is that Manchin is the kind of Democrat who can win in WV because the Democrats of WV like him the way he is.
karen
Sorry to drag this “it’s getting old” suspicion out but does Obama’s race have anything to do with WV’s hatred of Obama? It’s one thing to be a Blue Dog. It’s a whole other to be afraid to be seen as a *cough* Obama lover…
khead
@FlipYrWhig:
All for it? Really? Your post at #44 suggests otherwise….
And I would cite my grandfather from the miner’s unions – as you request – but he is, amazingly, FUCKING DEAD from black lung.
FlipYrWhig
@khead: I
FlipYrWhig
@khead: I don’t think it’s a strategy that’s likely to win anytime soon, but I don’t see what the alternative is, either. But my feeling is that states and regions electing conservative Democrats are doing it because they _like_ their Democrats conservative, more conservative than the rest of the party and more conservative than a Democratic president. Changing that is going to have to involve a lot of losing progressive candidates until at some point someone breaks through who connects with the people better than, and differently from, politicians like Joe Manchin and Blanche Lincoln. I think it’s going to take awhile.
FlipYrWhig
@khead: I’d love to see labor progressives getting into higher office. I’m not sure why that happens as little as it does. Your grandfather sounds kick-ass. My grandfather was career military and warmed to Obama via a liking for Anne Richards.
khead
@FlipYrWhig:
Those 5 EV’s aren’t really worth waiting for.
Really. They aren’t.
Mateo
Perhaps Joe might consider that Blue Dog Corporocrats like him made sure that NOTHING progressive got through Congress during Obama’s first two years, which might explain, at least in part, whah these here past 3 years just ain’t been that good for Wess Verginny (place of my father’s birth)
khead
Let me add that if I thought those 5 EV’s were worth waiting for…… I’d be living in WV right now.
I live in Maryland.
FlipYrWhig
@khead: I’m thinking more of Congress. Even to get to 51 Senators, much less 60+, takes Democrats from what are now “red states.” I’d like to think that economic populists can get elected to hold those seats, and it’s always going to be worth a shot, but for now the only kind of Democrat that can break through is a lot closer to Manchin than to Sherrod Brown or even Bob Casey.