In 2008, we (on this blog) were all excited to end Bush-Cheney’s reign of terror. Then we won and four years later, the Republican party is even scarier than it was back then. Fuck all the hand-wringing and give it up for metrosexual black Abe Lincoln.
Update. Thanks to everybody who gave and who will give. But nobody got the reference, from one of the greatest songs ever? I want somebody to be a witness tonight.
AT
But Obama has to sit down to shit as well, therefore same same.
pragmatism
the election of the kenyan usurper accelerated the surfacing of the quasi-hidden but suspected zits of racism and overall conservative craziness. i still hold out hope that we’ll pop them and then start to wash the country’s face.
David Koch
No difference btwn Bush and Gore!
Baud
I was thinking, if the ACA somehow pulls through tomorrow, some credit should go to left-leaning Villagers and totebaggers. They seemed more appalled than usual at the possibility of judicial overreach. When we talk about how Roberts and Kennedy might be concerned about their legacy, what we’re really talking about is their reputation with this group of people, because Roberts and Kennedy don’t care what you and I think.
Yutsano
@pragmatism:
We haven’t even settled the Civil War 150 years after the fact. Until we do a massive re-education campaign that boil is going to keep festering.
Billy K
That’s the problem, though, isn’t it? Many of his supporters (such as myself) have lost their jobs and can’t afford to donate.
The Dangerman
I may need to check my bipolar meds. Half of me thinks the USSC don’t want to go down as hacks and it’s 7-2 upheld. Half of me thinks that if they are going to go down as hacks, they will go the arson route and toss in some gasoline prior to throwing the match…
…and tomorrow’s the day Holder is up for contempt? Well, at least we know how that one is turning out ahead of time.
permazorch
Disagree.
That needle got pegged (at utterly horrifying). No, Republicans cannot get worse than 2000-2008.
What’s gotten monstrous in evil deeds and terror most foul is USA Gen-pop. The completely irrational hatred and racism vibrates from our fellow citizens. They do so love their Orwellian brainwashing. Being a progressive type, I prefer pleasure, Huxley’s Beta style.
But sure, give to act blue. I did, and I got the endless reminder emails to give more proving it.
pluege
Fuck all the hand-wringing and give it up for metrosexual black Abe Lincoln.
little tough to do when the so-called (and incorrectly called) metrosexual black Abe Lincoln was in no small part responsible for
four years later, the Republican party is even scarier than it was back then
part of the problem is rarely if ever is part of the solution. True we’re stuck with obama for now, but that is a really awful place to be and nobody has to like it.
JPL
@The Dangerman: The best case would be 6-3. Scalia’s hatred of Obama is clear and Thomas would be kicked out of his home, if he voted to uphold the law. Alito consulted with his wife and after many tears decided to vote no.
I think it goes down. Roberts and Kennedy are proven hacks.
The Dangerman
@JPL:
My guess for my bright and sunshiny outcome is Scalia flips if he knows he’s lost anyway.
Yutsano
@The Dangerman:
Waaay too golden a grandstanding opportunity. And Fat Tony don’t give a fuck about anything but his own world view. No way does he pass up a chance to shiv Obama even if he is in the minority. Roberts is writing this opinion no doubt. He’s the real wild card here.
cat48
SCOTUSblog Tom predicts that Healthcare is upheld. I hope he’s right.
Valdivia
I give a set amount every month to Obama and then when I get pissed at the idiocracy I give some more. I promise that next time I am mad I am going to give to this, while keeping the set monthly contribution to OFA where it is. This month I am tapped out.
Roger Moore
@pluege:
So it’s Obama’s fault that the Republicans are around the bend crazy? We should avoid doing anything they don’t like because they’ll get angry and try to destroy the country? Fuck that! Just say no to Republican blackmail. On second thought, don’t just say no; say “Hell No!”
Spectre
We declared an end to their reign of terror, and then rallied behind a candidate that declared a new reign of terror, in which American citizens can be summarily executed by the executive branch.
David Koch
It’s not too late to primary Obama.
We can launch a petition and if enough bloggers sign (especially if it includes important people like Cenk yukar), it will force the delegates to dump Obama and nominate a proven winner like Anthony Weiner at the convention.
cat48
I love the fact that Scalia rails against Obama from the Bench. Proof positive we have an out of control Court.
Yutsano
@Spectre: Your remedy rests in Congress. Shouldn’t you be asking your representative why s/he is not moving to impeach?
scav
They must be a bit worried. We’re getting a better class of suddenly appearing hand-wringer.
The Dangerman
@Yutsano:
But he also shiv’s himself regarding his previous ruling.
Yeah, I heard about the book or the article or whatever he wrote, but … I’m hoping the Dude has an appreciation for how History will treat him.
Alito and Thomas are just fucking hacks.
pragmatism
@Yutsano: i still haz the hope, yutsano.
slag
@cat48: I’m crazy enough to believe that it actually helps Obama to have Scalia rail against him. It’s important in an election year for Obama to have all the right enemies.
Valdivia
I have a big question here–let’s say they do uphold it in some way, saying the mandate is unconstitutional but ACA stands because it can work as a tax/penalty or some such instead of a mandate. I think if that happens it will be the wingnut event horizon. Note that all the Bohner preparations were for a ruling to go their way (don’t do a victory dance) but do you not think these a-holes won’t go full metal jacket?
Comrade Mary
I love Solomon Burke to pieces, and I recognized the lyric, but man, seeing the first few words on the YT header brought this to mind. And I am not ashamed.
Spectre
@Yutsano:
Nah.
Baud
@Valdivia:
The mandate is the same as the tax/penalty.
cat48
@slag:
You were clear about what I meant to say. I think he’s the perfect enemy for the prez.
Yutsano
@Spectre: Thanks for admitting you don’t really care about teh DROOONEZ!! and you’re just a copulator of rodentia. We can pretty much ignore you from here on out.
Spectre
@Yutsano: I care a lot about drones. Congress doesn’t, which is why your impeachment suggestion seems weird as hell.
Seriously, what will they say next?
Valdivia
@Baud:
I mean, something like this, via Sully
Yutsano
@Spectre: Keep it up. You’re proving my point beautifully.
Spectre
@Yutsano: You had a point? What was it?
Baud
@Valdivia:
The court can either uphold the law as written or not. As written, there is no “mandate” that’s different from the tax penalty you’d pay for not having insurance. ‘
There are two theories as to why it’s constitutional. One, that the mandate is regulation of commerce or, two, that it is a tax. If the court rules that the mandate is a tax, then it would be a much narrower ruling than if they rule it is a regulation of commerce.
Yutsano
@Spectre: LOL. That you really don’t give a shit, it just bothers you that THAT ONE is in the White House.
Valdivia
@Baud:
I understand but my question is not so much about the constitutional issues–but about how the crazies will react if ACA is upheld in some form.
Scamp Dog
@Billy K: Contact your local OFA (Organizing for America, Obama’s re-election campaign) and volunteer with them. I’ve done some phone banking, voter registration and canvasing (walking around neighborhoods knocking on doors to re-register voters, or ask them to be sure to come out and vote, etc).
The GOP can out-spend us, but I think they will have a tough time out-working us.
The Dangerman
@Baud:
If it’s a tax, doesn’t the mandate get kicked until 2014 when the tax is actually applied?
Here’s another reason I think the USSC upholds…
…and that is, if they go nakedly partisan on this one, they had damned well better go nakedly partisan the next time a Roe v. Wade case comes before them … or they are going to have some mighty pissed off people.
Baud
@Valdivia:
Oh, they’ll go nuts because they expect to win. Screams of betrayal since it looks like it’ll be a Roberts opinion. I expect a lot of conservative bigwigs will spend some time trying to deflect blame to Kennedy, assuming he also votes to uphold.
The really interesting thing will be to see if a loss motivates them or depresses them. Given how weak a candidate Romney is, I think they might not be that enthused to work hard for the Grandfather of Obamacare.
Baud
@The Dangerman:
I actually think that this is the correct result, but I don’t think the court has the balls to pull it off now.
Yutsano
@Baud:
I agree with this, because Willard has nothing to inspire them on. Of course the AOS is trying to move for full appeal regardless of the outcome of the ruling tomorrow. After bullshit contempt votes of course.
WHERE ARE TEH JERBS BOEHNER??
Spectre
@Yutsano:
That who is in the white house? Drones have been going on for the last two presidencies. Congress wouldn’t impeach the first, and won’t impeach the second.
Sense, do you make it?
Valdivia
@Baud:
I too expect insanity if they don’t get total victory. In an article in WaPo about Romney and the Arizona decision on Monday there were a couple of lines about how furious conservative already are with Roberts so if he does a split the baby kind of thing on ACA I think furious will be an understatement. And as you say, interesting to see where Romney lands after that. Either way.
I have seen people like Nate Silver say that even if it is not a total strike down of the law, but a split decision then the Republicans win the news cycle–because who cares about the actual policy consequences. These Village People make me insanely angry.
gwangung
@Spectre: This is why you’ll never get anywhere.
No practical sense of politics.
Baud
@Valdivia:
The Republicans have been preordained by the people who matter to win the news cycle regardless of the outcome.
The problem for Romney if the ACA is even partially struck down is that ACA repeal is the most compelling reason for the GOP base to vote for him. They’ll have to pretend the ACA still exists to get people out to the polls.
Ron
@pluege: How exactly was he responsible for the crazee?
Yutsano
@Spectre: I suppose the attitude of NOTHING CAN BE DONE!! is popular in your circles. But why aren’t you calling your rep every day asking why they aren’t initiating a check on Presidential power? That is their job after all.
@Valdivia: They expect their judges to always be on their side. There was much wailing when Roberts went for the majority in the juvenile sentencing decision by the wingnuts. Anything but total repeal will be nothing less than full betrayal.
I’m pulling a lobster tail out of the freezer. Regardless of what happens tomorrow I think I’ll need it.
@gwangung: Clueless, they haz it.
Valdivia
@Baud:
see I am so silly to have forgotten that pre-ordained bit!
I think Romney is in trouble no matter what because people really don’t want to vote for him, actively, for him at all.
@Yutsano: I hope you have that lobster tail with some bubbly!
For them it seems everything is always full betrayal
Yutsano
@Valdivia: Probably pasta with a lemon cream sauce. Maybe with a hunk of cow if I can get a decent price on one.
Speaking of which: store run. Back soon.
jl
Plenty of time for libs to criticize Obama for things they (often rightfully) don’t like after the election. You will have four years to try to get some steam behind a more progressive alternative for 2016.
And the alternative to Obama now is…?
As for strike down of ACA, who cares about the news cycle? We know whatever happens will be good for GOP according to them.
But, after next week, GOP will have to balance what pubic will want and what insurance companies and healthcare providers will want in terms of replacement.
I read about bipartisan business PACs who are supporting RINOs and DINOs, for companies who are getting wary of a crazy GOP. I think a ACA strikedown will encourage that. Not a particularly happy thing, since those PACs will just mean non-crazy non-reactionary crony corporatist government, but at least will help keep the crazies at bay this election.
Baud
Good night all. Tomorrow everything will be different – hopefully for the better.
Spectre
@Yutsano: I didn’t say nothing can be done. I said he can’t be impeached, which was your whacky idea.
Plenty can and is being done. The rest is entirely fabrication made up by voices in your head. Please try to keep up.
Spectre
@gwangung: lolwut?
Valdivia
@Baud:
g’night!
Valdivia
@jl:
I really hope they keep doing it in spite of the ruling tomorrow.
We now know the GOP plans to do NOTHING about healthcare. Because they don’t think it’s a problem at all except for Moar Free Markets!
General Stuck
Asshole. Orin Kerr rickrolled my sorry ass. It’s been that kind of day, in an un air conditioned apartment that is about 200 degrees, with fans blowing hot air around. Even if yer atheist, please pray for rain.
askew
A tiny part of me still believes that the healthcare bill will be upheld. I work in the healthcare industry and it is going to cause mass confusion, pain and layoffs if it is overturned. If it is overturned it is also really hurt the economy, and it will be generations before any politician touches healthcare reform seriously again.
mcJoan at GOS, they have a frontpage post about Medicare for All is the next obvious step if the court overturns Obamacare. It kills me that someone that ignorant of health care issues and reality is the go to person on healthcare issues at GOS.
Corbin Dallas Multipass
@Valdivia: Tort Reform. Maybe that is nothing, I think some consider it a step back.
Poopyman
What the hell is going on at the WaPo?
Who are these guys, and what have they done with the Kaplan hacks?
General Stuck
John Roberts is in a big rock and hard place. If he nixes the mandate, he will please the wingers, but that will mean he will likely spend the rest of his time as CJ, dancing around a flood of wingers with blood in their eyes, filing lawsuits to challenge hundreds of commerce clause based laws that have been passed since the 30’s. And either follow his own precedent changing actions killing the ACA, or coming up with some more bullshit on why it doesn’t apply to things like SS and Medicare, the EPA acts for clean water and air. Big lies in a place like the highest court in the land, to get a short term victory of ideology over settled law, will almost certainly require many more lies to justify the first one. Or he will simply become a parody with the legacy of a clown till the end of time.
I don’t think he nor Kennedy have the stomach for that, so I say it will be 6 to 3 upholding the mandate. But I also think there is about no chance the entire law will emerge unscathed. Or as someone said, a face saving baby splitting knocking down some other vital portion of the law.
Valdivia
@Corbin Dallas Multipass:
that and selling across state lines. worse than nothing, damaging stuff.
General Stuck
@askew:
They live in a world of protest people. And the opportunity to get back on that pony is intoxicating enough to blur out any semblance of reality. Such as thinking enough protest will make the public see government run insurance as the ticket, and that will cause the wingers to capitulate. Not understanding that for the right wing, they would rather be boiled alive than let that happen. It goes to the very core of their belief system, and they will be utterly un persuadable. As will the people who keep voting them into office, because they feel the same way. The only possible ways, imo, to get single payer in this country, is a rising of the phoenix bird from the dystopian ashes of societal collapse, or a market based system that will slowly squeeze out the profit incentive from regulation by the federal government. Like say the ACA. A public option might speed that along some, but the tiny one that was in the bill, wouldn’t speed it along very much.
Corbin Dallas Multipass
@Valdivia: Also, if they actually were to revoke obamacare, they would end up rolling back those changes which are helping people too.
Though that seems difficult to imagine given polling.
celiadexter
But back to the title of the post, and the song — you have to be an Old Person to get the reference — it was a blast from about 50 years ago — I originally remember it as a Stones song, but they covered it.
I recall in ’07 I found a button that said “I never thought I’d miss NIXON” — now I’m tempted to feel the same way about Bush. Just have to stay motivated to work my tail off this fall because if these people take the Senate and the White House we won’t have time for reminiscing; we’ll be trying to stay alive.
Corbin Dallas Multipass
@General Stuck: hope your prediction is right
Valdivia
@Corbin Dallas Multipass:
if they roll all of it back it all goes. they would have to pass new bills for the popular stuff. Benen today had a post saying the Reps have decided not to do that either.
Like you I hope @General Stuck is right.
The splitting of the baby would be to see the mandate portion as part of the tax power as Baud explained above (see also my link). If they bring down anything else it would be worse–the Medicaid bit of the bill is crucial for the functioning of the New Deal programs
ETA edited for clarity
Heliopause
How come nobody organized an ACA announcement pool? Hour, minute, percentage of law upheld, number of separate concurrences/dissents, how many pundits call this a win for Obama/Romeny/McCain, number of vegetables mentioned in Scalia’s concurrence/dissent? C’mon, FPers, get on the stick.
Corbin Dallas Multipass
@Valdivia: ahhahahha of course.
Lord knows if it is morally right and helps the needy…
Sadface.
Valdivia
@Heliopause:
I will play: whatever Halperin predicts will be wrong! :)
@Corbin Dallas Multipass:
yes I don’t expect anything from them either!
Corbin Dallas Multipass
@Heliopause: ha ha. How many vegetables does it take to bring down life saving legislation?
Tomorrow, the world will know…
Forum Transmitted Disease
Pay any attention to health care stocks? You should have today.
The money believes that ACA is fully upheld with the mandate. Otherwise those stocks would be crashing through the floor right now.
Given that, I’m going with “fully upheld”, 6-3. Roberts will take pains to explain, as in Bush v. Gore, that this is a one-time only deal.
Xecky Gilchrist
Oh, damn. I just donated to Obama earlier, before you put this up. Catch me again next month or so.
rikyrah
never ever fails to crack me up
Mnemosyne
@jl:
And that’s why “progressives” drive me nuts. They seem to have this weird idea that it’s better to start from zero and try to catch up to where you used to be than it is to start a few yards ahead. The best way to get a more progressive alternative to Obama for 2016 is to re-elect Obama so the Democrats don’t have to start with a handicap.
“Progressives” would rather go one step forward, five steps back, and then insist that the next Democrat be someone who can go five steps in a single bound than to start with one guy who goes one step, then another guy who takes a second step, then a third guy who takes a third step … almost like they don’t understand what the root word of the name they’ve adopted for themselves actually means.
piratedan
@Spectre: just be grateful that the kenyan usurper hasn’t come to your house yet then…. booga booga!!!!!!
Frankensteinbeck
@Spectre:
So, when you describe that as a reign of terror, do you know anything about case law about waiving your right to fair trial? The federal judge who approved these ‘summary executions’ you so hate seemed to think they weren’t new or out of line with the legal system as it has always existed. Or do the words ‘assassination’ and ‘drones’ just sound scary to you?
Kajey
I thought the title was a line from “Into the Woods”. But Sondheim might have borrowed it, I guess.
Lojasmo
@askew:
Wells, is this you?
The Republic of Stupidity
Ya know… disturbing as it sounds, that indeed turns out to be the case, dunnit?
In hindsight, the Toy Emperor was merely the GOP’s finger puppet, and not their leader after all… more of a symptom, and not the disease…