Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Americans barely caring about Afghanistan is so last month.

The GOP couldn’t organize an orgy in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

“Squeaker” McCarthy

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

Come on, man.

“But what about the lurkers?”

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Second rate reporter says what?

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Good lord, these people are nuts.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Why did Dr. Oz lose? well, according to the exit polls, it’s because Fetterman won.

T R E 4 5 O N

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

I was promised a recession.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

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228Comments

  2. 2.

    Chris

    I’m repeating what I posted in the last thread: if it was done this fast, my guess is that the entire succession issue was settled before Benny even quit, and that the conclave was just a formality.

    If the new pope is as conservative as Benny and JP2 were, I’ll consider my opinion vindicated. If not, well, I’d be happy to be wrong on this issue.

  5. 5.

    Calouste

    That was quick, far quicker than anyone predicted. 4 or 5 ballot rounds if I remember the rules correctly.

    Can’t we replace the US Senate with the College of Cardinals? At least the Cardinals are forced to retire at 80, they get things done a lot quicker, and by doing the thing in secret you’re not exposed to their infantile tantrums on tv.

  7. 7.

    cckids

    If I ever cared about a new pope being chosen, any shred of interest has been driven out of me by the unending, ridiculous amount of time & breathless reportage on the issue. Nothing will change (for the better) anyway.

    As Papa Ratzi showed, they are always capable of changing things for the worse.

  9. 9.

    scav

    @Chris: go for sure bets and life as a vale of disappointment much? Look at the pool with the beanies bobbing in it.

  14. 14.

    Todd

    I’ll kick in a fin and call it – Father John Fiala, of Houston, the guy who tried to hire a hitman to kill his sex abuse victim.

  15. 15.

    Calouste

    Btw, I think that during one of the 1979 conclaves that resulted in the election of either JPI or JPII, they accidentally put the wrong chemicals on the fire so that there was white smoke, but no Pope had actually been elected yet.

  18. 18.

    Ed Drone

    @Calouste:
    I think it was JP I, as I recall them “making really, really, really sure they did it right for the new JP, shortly thereafter.

    Am I right?

    Ed

  23. 23.

    ericblair

    I always read the notification as Habemus Pappadum. Now I want Indian buffet for dinner.

  26. 26.

    dmsilev

    @Chris:

    If the new pope is as conservative as Benny and JP2 were, I’ll consider my opinion vindicated. If not, well, I’d be happy to be wrong on this issue.

    Every single voting cardinal was appointed either by JP2 or by Benedict the umpteenth. The odds of there being much of a non-conservative voting bloc are poor.

  27. 27.

    handsmile

    I so much want it to be Ghana’s Peter Turkson (simply for the reaction of most American RCs: Kenyan in the White House, Ghanaian in the Vatican), but my real is on Odilo Scherer of Brazil (he can preside over the 2014 World Cup).

  30. 30.

    hal

    My level of care is a negative 10. All I do know is that its likely this pope will continue the tradition of keeping the church firmly planted in the 19th century.

  34. 34.

    Zifnab

    @Calouste:

    Can’t we replace the US Senate with the College of Cardinals? At least the Cardinals are forced to retire at 80, they get things done a lot quicker, and by doing the thing in secret you’re not exposed to their infantile tantrums on tv.

    If the Senate operated in secret, the Ryan Budget would have passed with ease.

  35. 35.

    the Conster

    Not that I give one rat’s ass, but being from Boston I’m pulling for O’Malley. The Celts and Bruins lost last night and the Pats stood pat in free agency (waiting for Welker), so this would push that speculation back onto the back pages. We haven’t had a good media circus here in a while.

  37. 37.

    dmsilev

    The real question, of course, is not who the pope is but whether he beat the point spread.

  41. 41.

    Chris

    @dmsilev:

    … wow. Every. Single. One? I knew they’d worked hard to remake the Church in their image but I didn’t realize it had been that total a success.

    Yeah, I mean, if there’s literally no opposition, then I guess it is pretty much a foregone conclusion. Oh well.

  45. 45.

    different-church-lady

    But they’re not done counting the outer-lying precincts in Milan yet!

  46. 46.

    Calouste

    @Chris:

    JPII was there for a long time. The combined tenure of JPII and BXVI was 34 years, so anyone appointed before that time is now either over 80 or dead.

  48. 48.

    dance around in your bones

    I could give a fly fart about who the new pope is, so…………..I just do not care.

    My mom left today (the mom I hadn’t seen for 20 yrs because of….complicated reasons) and I feel kind of alone and like I want to take a nap.

    Fuck the stupid pope.

  50. 50.

    Jay C

    @Amir Khalid:

    All hail Pope Whatsisname I.

    That would be Pope Whatsisname II: St. Whatsisname I was Pope in the Seventh (or was it the Eighth?) Century.

    But it’s an understandable mistake: he was often confused with Pope St. Whosis: even historians don’t always get it right….

  51. 51.

    Obliterati

    @Chris:

    To be fair, JP2 became Pope, what? 35 years ago? Not many church officials left alive from those days.

  52. 52.

    Face

    Who’s monitoring the Twitter for twats about the new pope?

    Also, there’s a College of Cardinals? Do they have a football team? If so, will ND schedule them next year?

  53. 53.

    John Arbuthnot Fisher

    This hardly narrows it down, but I’m going with a white European (probably Italian) who will perpetuate conservative theology and institute limited reform within the Vatican. I am skeptical it will be Scherer (not charismatic enough, not ethnically Brazilian) or Turkson (too presumptuous, too controversial, and let’s be real, many cardinals are not willing to cede the Petrine Throne to a black man), and those seem the most likely candidates from the “Global South.” I also essentially consider Ouellet in the group of white Europeans.

  54. 54.

    Ridnik Chrome

    Wasn’t there an 80s punk band that had a song called “Bar-B-Q Pope”?

    My money’s on the German-Brazilian guy, too. Either him or Angelo Scola.

  56. 56.

    Splitting Image

    As far as I can tell, the only one of the candidates who ever addressed the child abuse scandal was Schonborn, so I’m rooting for him. I think the favourites are Scola and Turkson.

    I think Bertone is probably the worst candidate, so if I had money I’d probably bet on him.

  58. 58.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    My official pick was Ravasi but I’m keeping my fingers crossed for Jerry Sandusky.

  60. 60.

    different-church-lady

    @the Conster:

    Not that I give one rat’s ass, but being from Boston I’m pulling for O’Malley. The Celts and Bruins lost last night and the Pats stood pat in free agency (waiting for Welker), so this would push that speculation back onto the back pages.

    It might make up for that lousy Bernard Law draft pick.

  63. 63.

    Schlemizel

    @Heliopause:

    Do they still use the special chair so that they can check to see that Il Papum has balls? How special of an assignment is that for a young Cardinal? “Hey Larry, you get to reach under the big chair and feel for the Papal stones. Let us know what you find.”

  69. 69.

    Dave

    So a bunch of fallible men horse-trade and haggle to make one of their own the suddenly-infallible Voice of God?

    It’s not “Jesus rode a dinosaur” levels of ridiculous, but it’s close.

  84. 84.

    dmsilev

    @raven:

    Wow, the Pope got displaced on Huff Post already!

    Whoever is picked should make sure to get a side-boob photograph taken; that would fix that little problem.

  87. 87.

    MikeJ

    Bayern München – Arsenal starts in half an hour. They better get on with the announcing if they want an audience.

  92. 92.

    ? Martin

    I predict Andy Rubin will be our new pope. The Catholic Church will be open sourced, but not really, and in lieu of addressing any of the policy issues within the institution, they’ll just make all of the churches bigger.

  99. 99.

    max

    @maya: Pope Sixtus VII

    Pope Sixtus IX. (They know nuuuhhhhthinnnngggggg.)

    max
    [‘What’s wrong with Pope Matthew?’]

  105. 105.

    I am not a kook

    As an atheist with Lutheran upbringing, I really don’t care that much personally, except that it does matter what this faction of the Authoritarian Party does. In a world with real world news organizations, the Chinese party leadership selections would be covered the same way.

    I’m a sucker for spectacle, also too. RCC is very good at it.

  106. 106.

    Jon

    Every time I go to shul I thank hashem for the pope, because I feel less ridiculous in my tallis and tefillin thanks to the Catholics.

  107. 107.

    dedc79

    So i walk into the room in our office that has a tv and there’s an elderly secretary watching the cnn feed. I commented about how the crowd must be getting pretty soaked in that rain. She turned to me and said “Well, it is London, what did they expect?”

  113. 113.

    handsmile

    @MikeJ:

    Not to worry. There are no German or English cardinals seriously in contention. Milan’s Cardinal Angelo Scola is considered to be the front-runner; perhaps a sop for AC’s defeat yesterday. Also too, Gunners gonna get bayerned at the Allianz.

  114. 114.

    hal

    Chris Matthews is excruciating to listen to on msnbc right now. And MSNBC seems to think a huge crowd in front of the Vatican after choosing a pope is unusual. My god its raining and there still so many people there!!

  116. 116.

    Jay in Oregon

    Not that it’d happen in my lifetime but if the new pope were to come out preaching things like social justice and caring for the poor, watch how fast he becomes “just a ceremonial figurehead” and irrelevant to the concerns of average Catholics.

  117. 117.

    maya

    Flash! New Pope just had a heart attack from all the excitement. Back to the Cardinal reefer room.

  119. 119.

    catpal

    who cares says another LC. and on a similar note of misogyny – I am listening to a nasty, very-condescending Sen Graham make excuses for Sexual assault in the US military – well he says we Must Not change Anything involving the Convening Authority and ALL of the Generals Agreed. Sigh.

  129. 129.

    max

    @PeakVT: It’s Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, Argentina

    Kick ass! And he’s going to be Francisco!

    max
    [‘Cool.’]

  139. 139.

    MikeJ

    @handsmile: Milan have no one to blame but themselves. They just needed one goal.

    Having been on the train that stopped by Highbury on Sunday afternoon, I’ll be cheering for Munich.

  140. 140.

    Chris

    @Jay in Oregon:

    Actually, I suspect he’d spark a lot of renewed interest from “average Catholics.” Both those of us in the West who’ve fallen away from the Church because of its refusal to promote its own teachings on anything other than sexuality, and those in the third world for whom, let’s face it, social justice is kind of a huge deal regardless of their stances on abortion and homosexuality.

    On the other hand, the hierarchy would shit bricks and blow chunks at the prospect of their cozy relationships with neoliberal elites like the Republican Party suddenly being jeopardized by that sort of irresponsible Christianity. Which is why such a Pope is unlikely to emerge.

  141. 141.

    karen

    They say that the new Pope is a Jesuit. Is that a different type of Catholic? I admit, I know nothing about it. But if he’s 76 years old, isn’t that guaranteeing that he won’t be Pope for a very long time?

  145. 145.

    peach flavored shampoo

    Fox News says it’s Jorge Something Borgellini-ish

    Edit: Hoooolllleeeeee shit was I late to the party

  147. 147.

    Winston Smith

    South American: huge
    Jesuit: HUGE
    Francis I: very significant

    All these are signs that the RCC has elected a Pope who might move the Church back towards being a force for good rather than just a force for covering up child abuse.

  150. 150.

    scav

    NFL could pick up some hints Habemas Quarterback. Theres a half-time show at the moment.

  151. 151.

    Ash Can

    A Jesuit taking the name of Francis who’s reportedly friendly with the “more liberal” cardinals (low bar, but still) and concerned about the poor. Maybe there’s some hope yet.

  153. 153.

    Darkrose

    The archbishop of Buenos Aires is a Jesuit intellectual who travels by bus and has a practical approach to poverty: when he was appointed a cardinal, Bergoglio persuaded hundreds of Argentinians not to fly to Rome to celebrate with him but instead to give the money they would have spent on plane tickets to the poor. He was a fierce opponent of Argentina’s decision to legalise gay marriage in 2010, arguing children need to have the right to be raised and educated by a father and a mother. He was created a cardinal by John Paul II on 21 February 2001.

    Same as it ever was….

  154. 154.

    Trollhattan

    @karen:

    Jerry Brown is a Jesuit and Rick Santorum is not. FWIW

    I don’t know much about them either, not being Catholic.

  158. 158.

    Chris

    @karen:

    Oh, my.

    That’s very interesting, actually. It’s my understanding that the Jesuits were rather unpopular during the JP2/B16 era because of their excessive open-mindedness, intellectualism and tolerance for nonconformity among their ranks. (The rise of Opus Dei was encouraged partly as a counter to these people).

    Dad was educated by Jesuits, loves them to this day (I suspect they’re a good part of the reason he’s still a Catholic) and is fairly liberal, so, take that as you will.

  160. 160.

    Obliterati

    @srv:

    A conservative Catholic Cardinal? SURELY YOU JEST!!!

    Of course he’s going to be a conservative, they’re all conservative. They’re priests! The vast majority of the world’s Catholics are socially very conservative. Why is this surprising or disappointing?

  161. 161.

    Amir Khalid

    How old is Pope Francis I, and how long might he hold the papacy? Also, everything I know about Jesuits (like most of what I know about Catholicism) is from The Exorcist and might not be helpful here. How liberal/conservative are they?

  163. 163.

    scav

    @scav: Ok forgot to hit send. Good news for the poor but hardline for some other stuff. I’ll rather enjoy the jesuit intellectual bit impact on a few circles.

  166. 166.

    Jay C

    @srv:

    Wikipedia’s already slotted him in as Pope Francis – nothing like Instant Media….

    76 years old, though: it’s not like they’re going for a youth movement or anything……

  167. 167.

    FlipYrWhig

    The most interesting part of the proceedings was where one Cardinal said he wouldn’t agree to this Pope until he addressed whether the office of the Papacy had the authority to drone liberationist bishops. Rand Cardinal Paul hit them right in the narthex.

  168. 168.

    Punchy

    Holy shit….if the picture of him on TPM is accurate, he’s a doppelganger of John Clayton from ESPN.

  171. 171.

    Miki

    @Roger Moore:

    Let’s see. To get your Pope name, you combine your childhood pet with the name of the street you grew up on…

    Pope Sam Louisiana!!!!

  172. 172.

    MikeJ

    @Trollhattan:

    Jerry Brown is a Jesuit and Rick Santorum is not.

    When Bill Clinton was attending Georgetown, he had to disappoint his Jesuit prof who tried to talk him into becoming a priest by admitting he wasn’t Catholic.

  174. 174.

    maya

    @karen: The Jesuit order has had it’s ins and outs with Rome for centuries. Usually considered more liberal as a specific Catholic order which mainly is involved with teaching. Individually, they can be very conservative as this guy appears to be. Sort of a compromise Pope?

  175. 175.

    jl

    @scav: A patoral Jesuit with evangelical and slightly (for Catholic Church bigshots) progressive social outlook.

    Better than I expected.

    He is an olds with one lung, but if current signs are any indication, maybe we should hope his health holds up.

  179. 179.

    Punchy

    Now the rest of the Cardinals can fly back home and get on with their Spring Training games.

  180. 180.

    Suffern ACE

    @Miki: Pope Lucky River I. Although I could be Thumper River IV, the previous pope Thumper was so bad that the name has been retired.

  182. 182.

    The Dangerman

    @Punchy:

    ….he’s a doppelganger of John Clayton from ESPN.

    Clayton and the Pope would be one kick ass “This is Sportscenter” commercial.

  183. 183.

    SFAW

    @handsmile:

    Cardinal Beergoggle-o? WTF kind of frat-rat name is that? Who’s next, Cardinal Boylermacher? Cardinal Choogahloog?

    Not the same church as when I was growing up, that’s for sure.

  186. 186.

    Chris

    @Obliterati:

    You know, at this point I’m not even asking them to get more enlightened on matters of sexuality. I’d settle for having a church that actually promotes the full spectrum of Catholic teachings rather than obsessing on abortion and homosexuality and then just sort of ignoring everything else (social justice, anti-war politics, environmentalism, the works).

  187. 187.

    SFAW

    @jl:

    maybe we should hope his health holds up.

    Well, if he really is progressive, let’s hope it holds up better than the last progressive Pope.

  188. 188.

    different-church-lady

    I’m diggin’ the old school mic’ing — when nuclear winter arrives the cockroaches will be using SM58s. But really guys, put some papal velvet on the gooseneck or something…

  190. 190.

    Hawes

    Didn’t Francis steal Pee Wee’s bike?

    Well, as with so many things, it could be worse. He’s likely to try and reform the Vatican, which the Mafia is getting embarrassed by. And he might actually give a shit about the poor, which would be a huge bonus.

    “I think he said, ‘Blessed are the Meek'”

    “Oh, that’s nice. The meek have had a helluva time lately.”

  191. 191.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Cardinals wuss out; Bill Donohue and Rih Santorum express disappointment.

  192. 192.

    handsmile

    @MikeJ:

    So will I, says the disillusioned Arsenal fan.

    True, but Milan fielded a young squad that appeared not to be able to withstand the pressure of Camp Nou; so many unforced errors. Messi’s first goal was sublime.

    Bergoglio should have chosen the name Pope Lionel I if he really wanted to increase the flock.

    Some time I’d love to know what happened to you on that train. :)

  201. 201.

    MikeJ

    @handsmile:

    Some time I’d loved to know what happened to you on that train. :)

    Nothing actually horrible. It was just filled with people having a good time while I was trying to get to a freezing cold machine room late on Sunday afternoon.

    Chelsea fans used to march past my place on their way to the games and never annoyed me. In fact I’d wear a blue shirt while I sat in the café and had a beer.

  202. 202.

    gelfling545

    The choice to reign under the name of Francis is an interesting departure as St. Francis is traditionally concerned with the love of the poor. And a Jesuit intellectual? Oh my. They MAY be in for interesting times but it will probably be only by comparison to the last guy. I don’t expect any great changes.

  203. 203.

    Warren Terra

    An anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-contraception cleric close to his local equivalent of Opus Dei and notable for his vehement rejection of Liberation Theology (aka possibly the most positive and effective large-scale movement to emerge from organized religion in the last half-century)? Who coulda thunk it? You could knock me over with a combine harvester! This is my surprised typeface. Etcetera.

    In other words: meet the new pope, same as the old pope (and almost certain to be a disgrace on the name of Saint Francis, against whom prior popes had the good sense not to compare themselves). But maye he’ll dick over some of the world’s poor in their own language and accent.

  204. 204.

    Roger Moore

    @gelfling545:

    The choice to reign under the name of Francis is an interesting departure as St. Francis is traditionally concerned with the love of the poor.

    It’s also a bit odd for a Jesuit, since I got the impression that the Jesuits and Franciscans never got along that well.

  205. 205.

    PeakVT

    Finally a non-European pope, but not entirely because he’s a second-generation Argentine of Italian descent. A Jesuit, but obviously conformist enough to please JPII and now his fellow JPII-appointed cardinals. The brief bio on En.Wikipedia doesn’t show anything remarkable about him (as of now, but it’s likely very incomplete compared to the Es.Wikipedia article). And at 76 (though looking fairly healthy) he probably won’t be pope for much more than a decade.

    So why this guy? Was he the most non-European candidate that the Europeans would put up with?

  206. 206.

    Joel

    Didn’t the original WTC bomber convert to Christianity? If it’s Catholicism, that would be an inspired choice….

  207. 207.

    Scamp Dog

    I’m going with the suggestions of Jesus’ General, who’s hoping for Edgar Winter, to become Pope Albedo I, as in this post.

  209. 209.

    James K. Polk, Esq.

    He’s going to have to tack towards the center for the general election though…

  210. 210.

    Quicksand

    “Everybody calls me Pope Psycho. Any you guys call me Pope Francis, and I’ll kill you!”

  211. 211.

    Amanda in the South Bay

    @PeakVT:
    There were Greek Popes during the Byzantine Captivity of the Papacy in the 7th-8th centuries (what is now Turkey and Syria). So technically not the first European.

  215. 215.

    Darkrose

    @karen: The Jesuits were founded as part of the Counter-Reformation. Their big thing is education: a lot of the best-known Catholic colleges and unversities are run by the Jesuits–Georgetown, Boston College, anything with Loyola or Ignatius in the name. Their founder was a Spanish military officer, and their hierarchy reflects this; the leader is called the Superior General (sometimes called the “Black Pope”). They’re big in Latin America because they were right behind the conquistadors.

    The Jesuits have something of a reputation for being slightly liberal for two reasons: their focus on education and intellectual rigor means that they have a fair amount of latitude for questioning assumptions and open discussion. Also, they were also all up in the liberation theology movement before JP II squashed it. It’s noteworthy that the new guy is on record as having been opposed to liberation theology, so it sounds like he’s not one of the more liberal Jesuit types.

    I have a certain fondness for the Society, having gone to a Jesuit high school. There is almost certainly a correlation between my time at St. Ignatius and the questioning that led me away from Christianity entirely.

  217. 217.

    jonas

    Was I just not paying attention, or did I completely miss that this guy was a front-runner, and was runner up to Ratzinger in the last conclave? Everyone was talking about the archbishop of Sao Paolo, or that African guy. I completely didn’t get the name when the pope was declared on the balcony.

    Oh well. He appears cut from the same cloth ideologically and theologically as JPII and BXVI, so expect the same strident condemnations of people doing anything with their reproductive organs other than reproducing and that women in the church can continue to please shut up. Aside from that, though, taking the name Francis perhaps signals that he intends to blaze a more independent trail politically and pay more attention to social justice issues. He’s no spring chicken in any case.

  221. 221.

    catclub

    I just heard that instead of being involved in child sex abuse, it will be the high catholic church’s involvement, in Argentina, with adoptions of the children of the disappeared.

    So from sex abuse to war crimes. The speaker put it as:
    “He was notably silent concerning the abuses of human rights by the Argentine junta.”

  223. 223.

    Chris

    @catclub:

    “He was notably silent concerning the abuses of human rights by the Argentine junta.”

    That was the Church’s loss as well as Argentina’s.

    I had a friend at AU who majored in Latin American studies and noted that the status of the Catholic Church country by country varied largely depending on what their relationship with the old dictatorships had been. She attributed the liberalism in Argentina (they even have gay marriage!) to the fact that the Catholic Church had had a very cozy relationship with the junta, and compared that to the much more Catholic and conservative culture in a Central American country (I think it was El Salvador, don’t remember) where the RCC had actually stood up against the regime and, as a result, was much more respected and better remembered by the locals.

  224. 224.

    karen

    @Warren Terra:

    Actually it’s worse than the old Pope. What seems to be happening mirrors what’s happening in what used to be the Republican Party where each incarnation is farther right than the next. Maybe in a decade, when this Pope will probably die, they’ll choose Pope Santorum.

  228. 228.

    Roger Moore

    @Jay C:

    Admittedly, it sounds more like a pr0n star than a Pope, but what can you do….?

    Well, the “pet’s name plus the street you grew up on” is supposed to be the way of generating your porn star name; I just recycled it a bit. BTW, mine would be Pope Diablo 10th; maybe we can just change that to Pope Diablo X.

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