Speaker-in-waiting Nancy Pelosi, discussing Boehner/GOP phaffing on immigration reform legislation, congresssplains the Constitution to her counterparts:
The Constitution says a majority. It doesn’t say the Hastert rule, or sometimes the Hastert rule, or when I feel like it the Hastert rule. It says the majority. And there are ways to achieve the majority that I hope they will pursue.
IOW: that fig leaf you’re looking for to pretend that it’s someone else’s fault you can’t deliver on a matter of utmost interest to the nation’s largest growing voting block? Ain’t there.
IOOW — Sez Nancy to John: you want to deliver the Latino, Asian, and much else besides vote to the Democrats for a generation? Be my guest.
More of this please. With lots of on the ground organization for 2014 and 16.
Image: Anonymous, The Qianlong Emperor watching a wrestling match (Banquet at a Border Fortress) 18th c.
Betty Cracker
Please proceed, Mr. Speaker.
NickT
I rather like Nancy Pelosi’s constitutional originalism. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Scalia.
Cacti
The Constitution doesn’t mention “filibuster” either. But the Senate prefers its mossy traditions over actually doing the people’s business.
Violet
NANCY SMASH! She was such a great Speaker. Wish we could have her again.
EconWatcher
It’s kinda hard for them to blame Dems for the failure of immigration reform when their own backbenchers are getting quoted basically saying, “Path to citizenship over my dead body.” They’re trying to foist the blame, but you gotta have some team discipline to do that. They’ve got none.
I fear the pressure of all this could drive Boehner to drink.
patroclus
All hell is breaking loose on the House Floor right now on the Farm bill. The Republicans, in an effort to get more Republican votes, have zeroed out all food stamp funding and are proposing a closed rule to jam it through. They have simply eliminated the entire title of the bill affecting nutrition – it is gone. And the rule would prohibit no amendment to put it back in. So all the Dems are objecting. The GOP strategy is to get the tea partyists to vote for the bill so it gets to conference where nutrition can presumably be re-inserted. But to do so, they are eliminating SNAP (food stamps) altogether.
So, the Hastert rule is going into effect and food stamps may be abolished.
Sibling Nonspecific Firearm of Random Adjective Followed by a Noun That Describes a Mental State (fka AWS)
OT again, but yesterday SIA posted a possible obit for General Stuck. Can anyone confirm? Here’s the link.
scav
@EconWatcher: Drive him to drink? Is more than a token shifting on the stool required?
NickT
@patroclus:
They really have finally gone completely mad.
Cacti
@patroclus:
People will put up with a lot of indignities. When you start making them go hungry, you’re crossing a line.
That’s the sort of thing that leads to heads ending up on pikes.
Violet
@Cacti: One only hope it will be the heads of those responsible. Usually doesn’t work out that way.
Face
Why the hell would House Repubs care, if they’re gerrymandered into almost 100% white districts? Yes, no reform fucks the GOP party as a whole, but individually for a vast, vast majority of House GOP Reps, voting down reform is a nothingburger electorially. See Results, House Voting Numbers D v. R, 2012.
patroclus
Now, the Republicans are not allowing unnimous consent requests to be uncharged regarding time allotment and are charging time each time a member of the Black Caucus or the Hispanic caucus attempts to make a unanimous consent request (so the customary equal 30-minute allowed to each side would be observed). Hoyer has appealed the ruling of the chair and the Republicans are in the process of voting him down. In effect, the Republicans are altering the customary equal time rule just because they don’t want to hear objections to zeroing out food stamps and Meals on Wheels.
Hastert rule in effect at this very moment.
NickT
@Face:
I think the key here would be the number of poor white families who use programs like food stamps. If this latest abomination by the teabaggers gets much publicity I think you might see a shift in some of the supposedly safe districts.
Certified Mutant Enemy
@NickT:
Military families have been known to need SNAP benefits…
PeakVT
@patroclus: Even if food stamps are re-inserted in conference, the amended bill has to come back to the floor for a final vote. If the leadership (an overly charitable word at this point) can’t get a complete bill passed now, I don’t see what would change in another few weeks.
patroclus
@Cacti: Well, the Republican response (made by Rules Chair Pete Sessions) is that they’re not really zeroing out food stamps and Meals on Wheels – they’re merely proceeding to conference. But the bill they’re passing (and the closed rule won’t allow amendments) actually does just that. It’s probably a little too “inside baseball” to get the media to actually cover it and for the public to notice because the Senate isn’t crazy and will never allow this to go through. But it’s interesting that Boehner has chosen to actually pass a bill eliminating food stamps so as to attract Republican votes rather then negotiate a real bill that could actually pass the full Congress.
NickT
@Certified Mutant Enemy:
Which is, in my opinion, an utter disgrace and shames us as a country. But yes, your point is a good one.
OzarkHillbilly
@patroclus:
No they won’t.
japa21
@Face: If only latinos cared about immigration reform and it only impacted latino turnout, you may have a point. But they may well be underestimating the non-latino support for immigration reform. In many of these districts, if they turn off even 5% of the normal GOP vote, or inspire an extra 5% turnout of the non GOP vote, they are done.
Brian R.
Boehner’s fundamental problem is that he’s desperately trying to avoid taking the blame for the failure of comprehensive immigration reform, while dozens of yahoos in his own caucus are shouting that they deserve credit for the failure of comprehensive immigration reform.
patroclus
@PeakVT: I agree – this maneuver is merely putting off dealing with the actual mechanics of getting a bill through the full Congress and is merely a subterfuge to get to conference. If and when a conference report is adopted (re-inserting SNAP and MoW), Boehner will have the exact same problem he has now. The tea party crazies will desert the conference report and it’ll pass only with major Dem support (and the Dems are being alienated right now even as I type this).
NickT
Looks like Yertle the Derple is panicking:
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/mcconnell-invokes-reids-tombstone-while-sparring-over-filibuster
IowaOldLady
@Certified Mutant Enemy: My 94-year-old Republican MIL uses Meals on Wheels.
NotMax
The Constitution also says only the Congress shall have the authority to declare war.
No honor in cherry-picking just the parts you find expedient, Ms. P.
NickT
@NotMax:
You can hardly blame Pelosi for our general failure to observe that particular part of the Constitution over multiple decades. Nor is it relevant to the point she was discussing.
patroclus
@OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, the Senate and Obama will never go along with zeroing out food stamps, but the House is just about to go on record favoring it. I would think this might make some 30-second campaign ads very easy to make. This isn’t just a cut; this is the proposed complete elimination of the program.
OzarkHillbilly
@patroclus:
Business as usual, Boehner cares more about being Speaker than he does about actually doing anything for the country.
Gex
How will Walmart be able to afford staff if the government doesn’t provide the basics for their workers?
NickT
@patroclus:
You can see the ads now:
(shot of the fattest, greasiest Republicans you can find):
Voice-over:
“Meet the Republicans. They look like a well-fed bunch, don’t they? Which is hardly surprising, since they voted to take the food out of the mouths of millions of poor Americans. Do you want to see American citizens starve, just so that a bunch of greedy millionaires can give tax-cuts to their fellow fat-cats?”
NotMax
@patroclus</a.
Uh-uh.
Too many Wal-Mart workers and military members forced to heavily rely on them.
Management will not brook abolishment.
Xecky Gilchrist
@Gex: How will Walmart be able to afford staff if the government doesn’t provide the basics for their workers?
Brilliant! Thanks for this.
ericblair
@Face:
Other way around. Look at PA, which is the worst gerrymandered state by most accounts. The goopers are trying to maximize their number of seats in a more or less even state, so there are a few districts that are honestly 85% Dem, and a lot of districts that are 55% GOP. That’s how gerrymandering works.
So you’d think that the goopers would feel pressure to moderate, but looks like no. My impression is that either they’re nutcases themselves and not exactly rational about it, they think that they can stick their thumbs on the scales with various forms of voting fuckery and their 55% is solid and not to be worried about, and/or they’re far more worried about a tea party challenger to the right than losing the general election.
This is the electoral equivalent of a leveraged investment. If things go your way you can really make out big time, but if things start moving the wrong way you can get totally wiped out.
Roger Moore
@PeakVT:
And Obama has promised to veto over SNAP funding, so there’s no way he’ll sign if they zero it out.
cleek
bah. Dems, Republicans. no difference. it’s all the same fascio-corporate-oligarchy for the few by the few. doesn’t matter who’s in control.
right?
NickT
@ericblair:
I think the GOP is doing all it can to create a huge shift to the left in America – without being remotely aware of the consequences of their actions.
Gin & Tonic
@NickT: Hyperbole much? If any Congressional candidate in any district anywhere runs with an ad even half that strong, I’ll give you my next paycheck. Please come back to the real world.
EconWatcher
@NickT:
What does it even mean to “preside over the end of the Senate”? Is he saying part of the Capitol will just sink into the earth or explode if the filibuster power is narrowed? It’s obviously hyperbole, but I can’t even figure out what supposed result it’s exaggerating.
Keith
There’s also a “rule” (at least in terms of court rulings) that no Congress – i.e. the Hastert one – can bind another Congress. Adherence to the Hastert rule – even calling it a rule – is purely voluntary.
MomSense
In other words–please proceed Agent Orange.
NickT
@Gin & Tonic:
Why not try it, rather than the piss-weak scaredy-cat ads that are all we manage? Just for a change. Or would you rather keep playing by Beltway rules? And no, it isn’t hyperbole. Haven’t you worked out what eliminating food stamps would mean for millions of families?
THINK for heaven’s sake, THINK what the consequences would be.
Now, look at what the GOP just voted to do.
aimai
@patroclus: What weirds me out over the coverage of all of this, House and Senate, is that when the House knows that nothing they pass can be passed through the Senate they seem to go their limit and “pass” the craziest laws imaginable. While when the Senate knows that it can’t pass something through the house it temporizes and destroys Democratic legislation on the grounds that it doesn’t matter anyway. One party, the Republicans, knows the value of hammering away at creating brand loyalty and insta-brand identification (however awful) and the other continually acts as though voters think half assed, non legislating = good faith effort at taking care of the country’s needs.
For christ sake, Senate, you are the only place that Democratic policies, such as they are, can be seen in action. Blow up the fucking filibuster and send your damned bills to the House and let the house gnaw itself to death.
patroclus
If the farm bill strategy is an indication or a precursor to how Boehner will deal with immigration, it seems likely that he will pass a bill dealing only with border security and border security only. Sort of a Corker-amendment as a full bill approach. Then, that would allow a conference to occur, which might insert the real bill, which then might come back to the House. And be confronted with the same problems regarding the Hastert rule we’re seeing on the Floor right now.
This seems too clever by half to me. The way to build support on a bill is to actually build support on a bill; to develop alliances and relationships and to earn support by accepting amendments from Members who will then ultimately support the bill (once their amendment is included). Passing a subterfuge bill with one side of the House, going to conference and having the bill completely changed and then coming back expecting the other side to pass it seems, to me, to be a recipe for disaster.
NotMax
@NickT
In what possible sense was blame attributed?
And it is perfectly relevant to her point – to wit, selectively pointing to the Constitution.
Villago Delenda Est
@patroclus:
OK, it’s about time for someone to intervene in this by lining up teatard scum against a wall and doing 2nd Amendment things to them.
NickT
@Keith:
NickT
@NotMax:
Pelosi’s point was specific to the so-called Hastert rule – as you know full well. There is a time and a place for talking about Congress and declaration of war – and this was neither.
aimai
@NotMax: The Republicans have not “selectively pointed to the constitution” at all. They have merely, by implication, acted as though the “Hastert rule” has some kind of superlegislative validity. The Hastert rule is merely an observation, or a suggestion, by the leadership (no longer in power) of a single party. Pelosi is pointing out that not only is it not a real thing, merely notional, but that if you value the framer’s intent it is not a good idea. They built majority rule into the system for a reason–because it (in this case) forces majority/minority alliances in the face of the intransigence of some parts of the majority. Your point is kind of weird–Pelosi isn’t discussing the constitution or arguing that her party is more faithful to it than the other, merely pointing out that the other party is confusing party based needs with constitutional/national requirements for the purpose of obfuscating its own incompetence.
scav
@NickT: They’ve done their math and are working up their scary voice-over ads pitting the images of hard-working family farms (heavy on the Disney film-stock, a befreckled bepig-tailed girl leaning out a window quaintly talking to her brother in a treehouse using a tincan and string) against those dangerous urban gangland moochers with da cell phones). Perhaps luckily, math doesn’t seem to be their strongest point recently and their general trend towards slash-and-burn playacting on legislative stages is addictive and danerous at high and frequent doses. Lardy body politic may or may not survive the experimentation.
Gex
@ericblair: I see the situation more like that of the CEOs and executives on Wall Street during the bubble. I assume that what is happening is that each and every Republican cares ONLY about winning their seat and getting their grift on, not about building or even maintaining the viability of the party. If the GOP collapses after they’ve gotten theirs, what do they care?
NotMax
@NickT
Sigh.
Did I even hint she should have included that in her statement?
No.
What I did hint at is how her long record of keeping mum in similar instances speaks volumes.
rikyrah
GO NANCY SMASH!!!
patroclus
Nancy is up right now and taking no prisoners!
OzarkHillbilly
@patroclus:
Yep, I hope they go thru with it as I already have the first ad written up:
Old people? No more meals on wheels for you.
Military families? No help for you.
Poor children? Should have picked better parents.
Poor parents? Too bad you have to watch your children starve.
Rich farmers and corporations? Step right up, here’s yer handy dandy million dollar subsidies funded by American taxpayers so you can pad your bottom lines and take that vacation to the Bahamas this winter!
I leave the visuals to you.
NickT
@NotMax:
Riiiight.
Hill Dweller
OT: The Twitter machine seems to think Snowden is currently aboard a Russia plane en route to Havana.
EconWatcher
@OzarkHillbilly:
This is anecdotal, but I know some pretty conservative people–reliable Republican voters–who would not be down with the complete elimination of food stamps. Whether this issue would be enough to make them vote against their congressman in favor of a Dem, I don’t know–they might just think that their little scamp got a little overzealous, bless his heart.
But I can’t believe a very significant percentage of the country would favor complete elimination. That’s pretty radical stuff.
NickT
@Hill Dweller:
How long before Greenwald tells us that Aslan is on the move?
NotMax
@Aimai
Oh come on, now.
I mentioned the Republicans not at all.
However, as you brought it up, the Constitution also gives Congress the authority to design and determine the methodology of running Congress.
Much as I (and presumably you) may detest it (and rightfully rail against it), if one party organizes to operate in such a short-sighted and overtly authoritarian manner, and is in the majority, then that’s the operational parameter at that time.
NickT
@NotMax:
You might find this helpful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_holes
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@NotMax: And yet – while I know this is a blog and I’m sure Pelosi doesn’t give a shit what we say here – this type of consistency is why Democrats are fighting against a rigged House. We’d bring a gun to a knife fight, except someone would point out that we recommended against knives when indoors because people could trip and cut themselves.
catclub
@ericblair: Good to see a post that understands gerrymandering means lots of marginally GOP districts and a few overwhelmingly Democratic ones.
Thanks for pointing out that a 5% shift kills all the GOP gains. [A few heavily GOP districts in a more normal distribution would resist a 5% shift. Also a 5% shift would be earthshaking.]
Gin & Tonic
@NickT: I’d love to see an ad like that. I’m merely pointing out that you won’t. Ever.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@NickT: We all know that Greenwald is Aslan. At best, Snowden is Eustace Scrubb (the cousin).
mai naem
@Sibling Nonspecific Firearm of Random Adjective Followed by a Noun That Describes a Mental State (fka AWS): It unfortunately sounds like Stuck. I hope one of the front pagers does a post on this.
OzarkHillbilly
@EconWatcher:
Agreed. I even like some of them, specifically because they would not go along with this. My hope is that if they won’t vote Dem, maybe they’ll just stay home? My mother (died in ’06), a life long Republican, got to that point. She might not have been able to vote for the Dem, but she’d be damned if she was going to vote for a Repub.
NickT
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
We fight against a rigged House because we don’t organize ourselves well enough at the local level. It’s all about getting off our asses for local and midterm elections and getting our team to the polls.
NotMax
@NickT
Try reading the words and not between the lines sometime. It’s a most elucidating exercise.
NickT
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Hold on, so Greenwald is his own prophet now? It certainly sounds like a Greenwaldian approach.
Hill Dweller
FWIW, some people seem to think Snowden is on this flight.
NickT
@NotMax:
Sometimes, there’s no there there, kid. Still, if you want to keep digging, be my guest.
OzarkHillbilly
@Gin & Tonic:
We live in a post Citizens United world. No reason in the world an independent org can’t make such an ad. Hell, anybody here good with video? Let’s crowd source one and put it on U-tube.
Cacti
@NickT:
The first rule of Greenwald club is:
1. Greenwald is smarter and more moral than you.
The second is:
2. If you disagree with either of the above, Greenwald gets to call you names.
mai naem
@Hill Dweller: If Snowden is going to Venezuela via Havana, he’ll end up dead in Caracas in the next couple of years as one of those random acts of violence in Caracas – it’ll be made to look like a robbery gone bad or a car wreck or maybe even a drug deal gone bad.
NickT
@OzarkHillbilly:
I don’t see why we couldn’t – or why, say, Alan Grayson wouldn’t be down for an ad or two like that. There’s a lot to be said for fighting against learned helplessness.
Villago Delenda Est
@Gex:
I’m afraid with these guys you’ve got the scenario. They can’t see beyond their own skins, they don’t understand the “we’re all in this together” concept. It’s every man for himself.
? Martin
@Cacti:
Well, the filibuster as a mechanism to extend debate rather than block a vote is perfectly reasonable. The thing just got perverted there.
NickT
@mai naem:
Or he’ll live in comfort on the donations of the gullible and have all the pole-dancing girlfriends he could ever want.
Roger Moore
@ericblair:
An alternative explanation is that the Republicans see that they have long-term problems maintaining control, so they’re doing their best to take advantage of their temporary majority. It does the Republicans little good to win if they have to spend all their time compromising with the Democrats to stay in power. They may rationally prefer to do as much as they can now and let the next election take care of itself.
Cacti
@mai naem:
Kidnap for ransom is a high dollar enterprise in Venezuela these days. Hope he doesn’t plan on leaving his apartment much.
NickT
@Cacti:
Maybe we should ransom him back to Greenwald in return for the truth about the moon landings.
ericblair
@Gex:
Agreed, and Wall Street had its own unskewed polls thing going on as well. Obviously the grifters don’t give a shit about the party and they’re a pretty big component, but I honestly don’t know what the True Believers think of each other.
Gex
@EconWatcher: Entirely eliminating food stamps will mean the existence of white people on food stamps will become visible. The entire Southern Strategy only works when white people think that other people’s stuff is getting gutted, not theirs. Just as the Tea Party demanded that government stay out of their Medicare, they will demand that government keep feeding their unemployed children and grand children.
@Villago Delenda Est: It’s not an accident. It’s their entire political philosophy. They don’t do collective action for common good, especially if it comes with personal sacrifice. They despise the mere suggestion.
gene108
@Face:
Gerrymandering had a role in the make-up of the current House versus the vote totals, but Republicans benefit from the geographic bias inherent in our government.
Our government gives disproportionate representation to low-population / rural areas.
The one Congressman from Wyoming probably represents fewer people than one of the ‘n’ number Congresscritters representing NYC or Philadelphia or other urban centers.
With rural areas heavily tilted towards Republicans, they have a built in advantage over Democrats in House seats.
The only real way to counter this is to expand the number of House seats from 435 to some larger number, so you get more proportionate population distribution between urban and rural districts, but I doubt anyone really wants to expand the number of total House seats on either side of the isle.
NickT
@ericblair:
“What about their legs? They don’t need those! Ooh they look tasty …”
Botsplainer
There is no god but Greenwald, and Snowden is his prophet (peace be unto Him).
Tone in DC
@patroclus:
There is no damn way that goes through.
These teabagger brain donors cannot be that willing to hoist themselves (as well as the country) on this petard.
NickT
@Tone in DC:
I think you over-estimate the degree of prudence that spoiled brats possess around fireworks.
rikyrah
@patroclus:
so you mean eliminated Food Stamp funding?
Forum Transmitted Disease
@Tone in DC: Have you not been paying attention the last 5 years? This is small potatoes. They’ve already shown they’re willing to default on the national debt.
Roger Moore
@EconWatcher:
Which is why a serious campaign would need to tie it into a larger pattern. It’s rare that voters will swing on any single vote, but they may swing on a pattern that shows a candidate is too radical. So you need to show them voting to end food stamps, refusing to do anything about jobs, blocking progress on a budget, voting X times to repeal Obamacare even though they know nothing will come of it, etc. A pattern like that will prove that they’re a bunch of bomb throwers who don’t care about governing, and that’s what will convince people to switch their vote.
Botsplainer
@gene108:
The batshit crazy doesn’t come from the productive agricultural ruralities – those are GOPers you can deal with on farm issues, medicare/medicaid, drug policy. They also tend to be a lot more normal on social issues, as they tend to see animals fucking a lot. They also don’t trust the financial service sector, and can tolerate some regulation of business, because true farmers think like businessmen.
The batshit mainly springs from the exurbs (along with some hardscrabble poor ruralities, those places where people are ignorant and unemployable)- the pants-wetting white suburbanites who are terrified of color but want to live close to city jobs while drinking city water. Mammalian sex scares them, so they go to political megachurches loaded with their pasty white fellow fearfuls.
Eric U.
I think my district outside of the State College is pretty heavily dependent on food stamps. I wonder if starving granny is enough to get people to actually notice that republicans are not a good investment of their votes
patroclus
@Tone in DC: Well, it’s going through the House right now on what will presumably be a party-line vote. That is, virtually every single House Republican is just about to go on record in favor of eliminating all of the nutrition programs – every single one, including food stamps, Meals on Wheels and the various supplemental programs. I agree that the Senate and Obama won’t allow it to take effect, but that doesn’t change what the Republicans are doing.
patroclus
@rikyrah: Yes, the bill being debated right now has eliminated the entire title regarding nutrition, which means ALL funding for ALL nutrition programs would be eliminated. The Senate and Obama will never agree to it, but the House is just about to go on record as eliminating the entire food stamp program, as well as Meals on Wheels and several other programs.
The Dems are now trying to delay things, with a motion to adjourn, which the Republicans will vote down.
Botsplainer
Clearly, nobody should have the ability to track this guy down, because tyrrany.
rikyrah
@patroclus:
Let the muthafuckas be on record
PeakVT
I missed how it came up, but the House is now voting on a motion to adjourn. So far, Dems are for, Repukes are against, so I guess this was a maneuver by the Dems to prevent the passage of the food-stamp-less ag bill. Live video.
NickT
@rikyrah:
And let the record be blasted into every American household that has some form of modern communications available to it.
Roger Moore
@Botsplainer:
+eleventy. The real batshit is from white flight suburbs and exurbs, plus the worst racist pockets of the rural Deep South.
Tone in DC
@Forum Transmitted Disease:
Yes, I have. Regarding the US bond rating, I see your point.
Having said that, a few (not nearly enough) of those teabagger idjits lost their seats in 2012. Doing incredibly st00pid shit like this. To the point where Lindsey the pearl-clutcher Graham is a voice of reason these days.
That logic these House gas-holes should understand.
NickT
@Tone in DC:
They won’t understand because they don’t want to understand. Who needs understanding when you are doing the will of GOD and his Koch Prophets?
Violet
@Botsplainer:
Exactly. White people who actually live in the cities tend to be more liberal. The crazy is from the farther out suburbs/exurbs.
NickT
A bit more Yertle the Derple panic:
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/mcconnell-mccarthy-perez-have-votes-to-be-confirmed
Clearly highly controversial doesn’t mean what it used to mean.
MomSense
@rikyrah:
76% of SNAP benefits go to households with children so we are talking about poor parents trying to feed their babies.
Let the muthafuckas be on record!
Tone in DC
@patroclus:
You just said it, though. The Senate and/or the prez will stop it.
Thing is, do these House teabaggers honestly think no one (except us, Rachel Maddow, LoD, the GOS and Digby) will notice their weapons grade st00pidity?
NickT
@Tone in DC:
Yes, because the media will just say that nothing happened and roll over back into bed with those rich enough to buy the news they want to hear.
Tone in DC
@NickT:
They want to stay in office more than they want anything else. Unless they’d rather be hiking a certain Trail.
Roger Moore
@Tone in DC:
Of course not. They’re depending on their wingnut supporters seeing what they’re doing and seeing it as an attempt to punish the poor dark skinned people. Then they’re counting on the Senate and President to bail them out by refusing to pass anything quite that crazy so their poor white supporters don’t actually suffer the consequences of their crazy votes. Par for the course for today’s Republican House.
MomSense
@patroclus:
Wait does this include the school lunch program as well or is that funded through the education budget??
Gin & Tonic
@gene108: The one Congressman from Wyoming probably represents fewer people than one of the ‘n’ number Congresscritters representing NYC or Philadelphia or other urban centers
You should learn about Congressional districts. The average population of a district is around 700k, and ranges from around 530k to over 980k. The highest-population district is in Montana; and the lowest-population district is in Rhode Island, completely negating your assertion.
Violet
@Tone in DC:
Generally, yes. And they’re right to think this. Their teabagging voters will be supportive, so if they notice it then it’s all a positive for them. They don’t care if we know about it. The media will pay no attention. And the Senate and the President will make sure it doesn’t become law, so their ass is covered.
It’ll get zero traction in the media and most people won’t know.
Tone in DC
@NickT:
I don’t argue that Joe and Mika will say anything. Nor Brian Williams, Jake Tapper, Diane Sawyer, David Gergen, Billo or the Moustache of Ignorance
Amy Goodman will notice. Rachel and LoD will, as well. And Chris Hayes, Melissa Harris-Perry and and Krug the Econ Sage.
Violet
@Tone in DC: Do the people who are the targets of those cuts read or watch those people? You need to have cable to see MSNBC, sometimes an upper tier package. Will a middle class mostly-Republican voter be swayed by something like this? Will they hear about it? They’d have to watch MSNBC, apparently.
patroclus
@MomSense: The school lunch program is authorized pursuant to a separate Act – the National School Lunch Act – and is administered by the Department of Agriculture. Its re-authorization mis passed separately from the regular farm bill. This bill does not cover that (thankfully).
muddy
No getting abortions! We need them to all be born so that we can starve them immediately afterwards. The suffering will get the little limbotarians into heaven that much quicker. Lucky duckies! Gotta scrape off that original sin somehow, doncha know.
I wonder if the poor people who will then be on an (involuntary) hunger strike will then be force fed with tubes? We can’t just let people die on account of lack of food! It makes the US seem so weak if we just let them die and we look like big meanies!
muddy
@Violet: Except that half the teapartiers are probably getting SNAP along with their free scooters.
? Martin
@MomSense: School lunch program is also through USDA. So, not clear. I can’t find any reporting on what’s happening today.
NickT
@Tone in DC:
But the question is how many people they will reach. Not that many, most likely, while Fox will ignore the story or distort it beyond recognition and most newspapers will just write it off as another nothing happened today story.
MomSense
@patroclus:
I had a mini panic as the woman at the foodbank where I volunteer told me that they have 70 new families who receive school lunch assistance who are now struggling because school is not in session.
The thought of hungry little bellies—I just can’t. I want to smash things.
Villago Delenda Est
@Tone in DC:
As others have noted, these people simply do not have any governors on their crazy motors. There are no limits to what they will do in pursuit of their warped sociopathic ideology.
They are simply, in no way, shape, or form, sane.
Violet
@muddy: Well, yeah, but they’re clearly not that bright, so if they’re getting SNAP, then they may not understand that eliminating it will affect them. It’ll be those blacks and browns and other undesirables that feel the cuts. They’re white and old. How could they be affected? Unpossible!
PeakVT
House didn’t adjourn. Now the Repukes are objecting to unanimous consent requests to revise and extend remarks, which is apparently quite unusual.
Assholes.
catclub
@rikyrah: I just saw this quote “The “We’ll do it later” GOP. That worked out well for sequestration, raising the debt ceiling, Sandy Relief, etc., etc.”
There is no Chris Christie who will shame the GOP for this vote. Our Liberal Media indeed.
NickT
@catclub:
I’d be surprised if Christie wasn’t in favor of this abomination of a bill.
catclub
@muddy: Meals on wheels. Remember the other senator from NC – Helms on wheels.
muddy
@Violet: I know, these are the same idiots with signs saying Keep Government Out of My Medicare! When they carry on like that I feel really uncharitable, and would like to really keep the gov’t right out of their medicare. See how much they enjoy it then. Ooops, it’s gone! So sad too bad.
Violet
@MomSense: I’m cleaning out my cupboards and have bags of food ready to drop off at my local food bank. I hope it helps them. We’ve got a lot of young, low-income families in our neighborhood. I know they’ll need help while school is out. The food bank put out a call for peanut butter–so many kids need lunch.
Botsplainer
@Gin & Tonic:
The gerrymander warp isn’t Wyoming. It is in big states like Texas and PA, where large urban numbers allow ratfuckery in exurban districting.
Higgs Boson's Mate
If the nutrition programs did get cancelled the Tea Party would just convince themselves that the food had been secretly diverted to people of color.
muddy
@MomSense: They offer the meals during the summer at the school here. But how do you get the kids over there and back? In a lot of cases this is probably more challenging than getting the meal.
NickT
If the Democrats have a lick of sense they’ll denounce the GOP from pillar to post for voting for the Starve American Families bill.
gene108
@NickT:
But do they vote?
The number of folks affected by government actions versus the numbers who vote don’t line up. In a Presidential election year, you’ll have 55% to 60% of eligible voters turning out to vote.
In a mid-term election, you’ll get a fraction of that.
For off-year elections, you’ll get even less.
Having an opinion, but not voting really doesn’t mean much to a Congresscritter.
PeakVT
Vote on the rule (which in this case is as important as the bill) coming up pretty soon.
NickT
@gene108:
Right – which is why I’ve said before and will say again that we need to work much harder at the local level. We have to get to the polls and bring our people with us – or the GOP will keep shitting in America’s face and pretending it’s raining free chocolate.
Jockey Full of Malbec
@NickT:
There is no god but Greenwald, and Greenwald is his prophet!
Gex
@MomSense: C’mon now. You know the base rationalizes taking away from the children of poor people by convincing themselves that the money goes to Cadillacs and t-bones. Those poor kids aren’t getting it anyhow, so they aren’t really taking anything away from helpless, innocent children.
patroclus
One of the main criticisms that the Republicans made when they were in the minority was that the Dems didn’t always follow the 72-hour rule, which provides that all bills that come to the Floor have to be made available to the Members 3 days prior to Floor consideration. On this rule on this bill, the Republicans just obliterated that rule – it was unloaded on the Rules Committee late last night and the 618-page bill is going to be considered immediately after the Republicans cram through the rule in a few minutes. Apparently, IOKIYAR regarding the 72-hour rule and, unsurprisingly, there were no tea party objections raised during the debate on the rule.
gene108
@Gin & Tonic:
I do remember reading some articles about the 2012 House elections that even though Dems got more votes, even with pre-2010 districts, they would not have gotten control of the House because Republicans had a natural advantage with regards to rural districts tilting more Republican than urban districts that went for Democrats.
The gerrymandering just makes the hurdle Democrats have to clear to get back the House higher.
I’m not sure how this breaks down with regards to population per district, but I guess my initial assertion was wrong, though I think the overall structural advantage for Republicans in House races, with regards to rural versus urban districts is not.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Jockey Full of Malbec:
Greenwald would argue that he’s more influential than God. God hasn’t said a word to Man in a couple of thousand years. Greenwald won’t STFU.
muddy
@catclub: I used to deliver Meals on Wheels. Monday, Wednesday, and the Friday box had also some extra non-hot food and drink that they could have over the weekend. Most of the people were grateful, altho honestly many seemed more into the Visitor on Wheels portion of the festivities than the actual food. It was a pleasure to see them and visit briefly.
There were a few cranks of course, who would dive into Republican bitching before even checking out the food. Thank God for volunteers, some would say, that’s how society should operate, helping the deserving elderly by donation and Good Christian Charity. I didn’t say I was an atheist, but I did tell them my time and gas money are volunteer, but the government gives the food. I ask really sincerely if they would rather not get the food then, as I understood their principles and would not want to push some awful government programs on them. I said for moral reasons I would not want to make them do something they were against. Always very serious and sincere (sounding).
I had a few say they didn’t know that, and thanks for telling them. One old man said he felt like an idiot now because he was happily eating it while bitching about gov’t. The ones that just made a mean moue face at least did not bring that crap up to me the next time. And I appreciated that at least.
I’m shitty enough that I might get mixed up and forget a stop if someone kept on with that shit every time I came by. ;-) Luckily it never came to that.
gogol's wife
@Sibling Nonspecific Firearm of Random Adjective Followed by a Noun That Describes a Mental State (fka AWS):
Oh, my God. I haven’t read the rest of the thread. That looks as if it must be him. He looks just the way I pictured him. I am so, so, sad. Despite all the surmises, I just didn’t believe he was gone.
Gex
@Violet: And, when things get worse for them, they will be even MORE convinced the blahs and Obama are to blame. Why does the childhood phrase, “why don’t you stop hitting yourself” come to mind? I picture the Koch brothers making all these cranky old white people keep smacking themselves in their own faces.
MomSense
@gogol’s wife:
Sad here too. Ugh. And I hope Charlie is ok.
MomSense
@Violet:
Peanut butter–they need peanut butter. Lots of calories so it is filling and protein. I’m going to cry again.
? Martin
Ok, this doesn’t zero out SNAP funding, rather it kicks it down the road as another bill to be negotiated and passed. Everyone hates this option because SNAP and subsidies enjoyed a positive tension. SNAP helps farmers. It’s $80B of guaranteed spending that is skewed toward the stuff they sell because SNAP restricts the stuff that don’t benefit farmers much.
The only people that see a negative tension here are the ‘drown government in a bathtub’ folks – just the tea party. So, this idea is dead because the lobbyists hate it, and the Dems hate it.
The bottom line is the farm bill has become a cancer of lobbyist overreach. The wheat guys want to take money from the corn guys who want to take it from the milk guys and so on. If appeasing lobbyists is what drives Congress, then they have no choice but to dump ever increasing amounts of money into the bill – which is exactly what they’ve been doing. The teatards are staying ‘stop’ (which is almost commendable if they had any sort of benign reason for doing it). But this whole thing needs to be torn down and reconsidered.
El Tiburon
So, do we want this Immigration reform bill? Does the good far outweigh the bad?
Is it worth it to have the Republicans screw the pooch to hurt them politically maybe for a generation?
IOW, if the Republicans fail on this, could it deliever the Latinos to the Democrats for generations to come?
Long term is it better for all?
PeakVT
Voting on the ag bill rule (the rule being important here because it’s what strips the nutrition funding) just finished. Overall: 226 to 196. Looks like 1 Repuke broke party lines. 0 Dems did.
Now the debate on the bill itself.
? Martin
@gogol’s wife: I think that is him. He once commented on my handle in a way that led me to believe that his name was Martin. I expected it was his first name, but it could have been his last name.
For the record, my name (first or last) is not Martin.
Davis X. Machina
@gene108: John Sides, in the Washington Post, among other places. Estimates of a GOP bump due to post-Census redistricting run from 9 to 14 seats . Which pales in comparison to the 70 seat swing in the 2010 House elections.
? Martin
@El Tiburon:
It very well may. But I’d rather have the bill. Passing the bill fixes lots of problems for lots of people. And in the macro sense, it fixes a lot of economic problems in this country as well, so we all benefit. There are better ways to beat the GOP that don’t involve making people suffer.
patroclus
@? Martin: Yes, it clearly zeroes out food stamps and all other nutrition programs traditionally included in the 5-year farm bills. If we view things your way, any bill that zeroes out anything doesn’t really do that because some subsequent bill could always restore funding. That is an utterly nonsensical view of how Congress operates. The Senate has passed a 5-year farm bill which includes nutrition funding and the House is just about to pass a 5-year farm bill that eliminates the entire nutrition title and thus eliminates all funding. Farm bills come around every 5 years or so and they either include nutrition funding or they do not. The House version does not – in the House version, the funding is zero.
But kudos for accepting the Republican framing!
burnspbesq
@patroclus:
This vote needs to become the big-ass albatross that gets hung around the neck of every Republican candidate in the midterms.
Elizabelle
@MomSense:
We could make sure Charlie is OK.
Would Annie Laurie (or another Balloon Juice emissary) want to call the funeral home and inquire after General Stuck’s dog?
Charlie may be with loving relatives or friends, but this blog has placed a pet or two in need in the past.
Further, General Stuck’s loved ones might enjoy hearing he had a circle of friends who remember him fondly and miss him.
Just Some Fuckhead
@patroclus: He didn’t buy into Republican framing. He is a Republican, just mostly disenfranchised at the moment.
Bubblegum Tate
@EconWatcher:
I fear the drinking could lead to crying. Call it a hunch.
patroclus
@El Tiburon: Of course we want the immigration bill for a wide variety of compelling reasons. First, it contains the Dream Act, which allows children of immigrants to get documents and go to college and get driver’s licenses and be eligible for benefits and come out of the shadows like normal people. Their parents moved here when they were young and they never broke any laws and they have always been Americans and yet they are denied all sorts of things merely because of their parents’ status and actions. Second, it strengthens border security. Third, it allows earned legalization and a pathway to citizenship through a lengthy process that includes all of the things that citizen applicants normally do. Fourth, it includes a guest worker program for migrant workers. Fifth, it strengthens familial ties allowing existing citizens to bring more family members to the U.S. legally. Sixth, it legalizes grandmothers and grandfathers who have been here for years but just never acquired documents. Seventh, it helps the labor situation, discouraging scofflaw employers, under-the-table wages, tax avoiders etc… And more….
Just Some Fuckhead
@Sibling Nonspecific Firearm of Random Adjective Followed by a Noun That Describes a Mental State (fka AWS): That’s definitely Steve.
Steeplejack
@NickT:
Krugman commented on this just this morning:
? Martin
@patroclus: According to the reporting I’ve since found, it doesn’t zero it out. What’s being proposed is to explicitly split the farm bill into two – one for subsidies and one for Title IV (SNAP and related programs).
Now, what would that other bill look like? Who the fuck knows. It might yet zero it out, but passage of the current farm bill would not have that effect, it simply defers what happens there. And Title IV funding could still be provided through the regular budget process (where the GOP could better hide from their constituents).
It’s fairly immaterial, though. The House proposal will not pass the Senate and will not be signed. If the GOP House is unable to pass a Title IV program with the cuts they previously had, then how the fuck would they pass one standing on its own? This will go nowhere as proposed.
(Lest I again be misunderstood, I am wholesale against this and like I mentioned above, I’d restructure the whole subsidy around Title IV – give the whole budget to citizens and have them support the farmers. I suppose that makes me a rather particular kind of Republican.)
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Botsplainer: You’re not understanding the religion. Greenwald is the god and prophet. Snowden is person who volunteers to be blown up in the plane.
MomSense
@Elizabelle:
I think this is a great idea.
Roger Moore
@Jockey Full of Malbec:
Q: What’s the difference between Glenn Greenwald and God?
A: God doesn’t think he’s Glenn Greenwald.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): After reading that, I realize it had a bad connotation. I was referring to the Dark Knight Rises, where that one follower of Bane stayed in the jet when it crashed. Not the other blowing up of planes.
Jay C
However forceful or politically savvy Nancy Pelosi might be (and it’s a given that she IS, very much indeed), as Minority Leader in a House where the Majority are either radical extremists, or their captives, there’s not a lot she can do.
Sadly, I think that this year’s iteration of immigration-reform is pretty much dead: I think the Republican majority will probably strip out everything from the Senate bill, except for the New Berlin Wall “border-security” stuff, send it to conference where it will either die, or get sent back to the House to be killed. Hoping, of course, that President Obama will deliver the coup de grace, so that they can go back to demagoguing the issue on “amnesty”, “fairness” and/or “line-jumping” BS, while loudly blaming the President, and meanwhile, angrily denouncing”race-carding”, should anyone dare to suggest that prejudice might play even the least part in their anti-immigrant obsessions.
And, of course, the upshot is that “immigration reform” doesn’t get done in 2013, either, and the status quo – in which all too many important players have a vested interest is maintained. Until next time.
IOW, business as usual….
NickT
@Roger Moore:
God’s only had 1 major update in 2000 years, while Greenwald has 2000 major updates in 1 year.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@NickT: God has a better twitter account, that’s for sure.
Roger Moore
@? Martin:
The effect is to kill it. There’s no way the wingnuts in the House will vote for a bill that only covers SNAP. It’s just like their attempts to kill immigration reform by breaking it up into parts so they can vote for the boondoggle giveaways to Republican contractors while screwing over immigrants.
J.D. Rhoades
@EconWatcher:
I fear the pressure of all this could drive Boehner to drink.
That’s not a drive, it’s a putt. And a short one at that.
patroclus
@? Martin: Your view of legislation is odd – under your view, a declaration of war really doesn’t declare war, because it really is two bills, one of which, albeit not introduced or under debate, might rescind the declaration of war. Defense appropriations aren’t really about spending money for defense, they are really two bills, one of which, albeit not introduced or under debate, might rescind the apprpriations. A bill creating the SEC doesn’t really create the SEC; it’s really two bills, one of which, albeit not introduced or under debate, might rescind the creation of the SEC. The Civil Rights Act doesn’t really prohibit discrimination in public accommodations; it’s really two bills, one of which, albeit not introduced or under debate, allows discrimination.
Neutron Flux
@patroclus: To be clear,the republican chairman of the house ag committee promised that he “intended” to bring up a separate nutrition bill. See, its all okay. He intends to craft a bill and bring it out of committee.
Trollhattan
@J.D. Rhoades:
The pressure of inhaling drives Boehner to drink.
Gun, meet barrel fish. Barrel fish, just try to avoid gun.
patroclus
@Neutron Flux: Indeed, that’s the Republican framing, but Lucas is lying. They aren’t going to do another bill on nutrition – they’re going to go to conference and the Senate conferees aren’t going to go along with zeroing out food stamps and Meals on Wheels. So, we’re just gonna be back to the same impasse we were at 3 weeks ago; and disregarding the Hastert rule will still be the issue.
PeakVT
@PeakVT: I linked to the wrong vote above. This is the correct roll call. (though the outcome was almost identical).
...now I try to be amused
@ericblair:
That is the best metaphor for gerrymandering I have ever seen. Wasn’t Tom DeLay in one of those 55% districts?
The Thin Black Duke
@Elizabelle: What?
I haven’t been here for a while, so this is news to me.
The General is dead?
Fuck.
Neutron Flux
@patroclus: We are in violent agreement.
? Martin
@patroclus:
I’m just trying to be accurate about what is happening. I’m not arguing the intent isn’t to kill Title IV – I have no illusion that isn’t part of the calculus – either directly, or as a way for chickenshit politicians to hide their votes to preserve their standing with their insane constituents.
So what I’m saying is that this bill defers the issue of Title IV to another day. I’m considering the people here on this board that actually draw SNAP benefits that might be worried that next month they won’t get their benefits any more. This bill passing doesn’t immediately result in that. It might, if that 2nd bill doesn’t happen, but the timing for when those benefits would run out isn’t clear, and its equally unclear how the fight to preserve those benefits might play out should this bill go through.
Steeplejack
@Gin & Tonic:
WTF? Wyoming’s population is 576,000, which puts it at the low end of your range of “from around 530k to over 980k” and seems to comport quite well with Gene108’s statement that “the one Congressman from Wyoming probably represents fewer people than one of the ‘n’ number Congresscritters representing NYC or Philadelphia or other urban centers.”
I don’t see how you get “completely negating” out of that.
Xenos
@The Thin Black Duke: What is the proper protocol in this situation? I remember Cole having a post about the death of a commenter with the nym ‘Momma Bear’ way back in the blogger paleolithic. Seemed a nice gesture, but not really meeting the social need, even for a bunch of crabby people like this commentariate.
patroclus
@? Martin: You may be trying to be accurate but you are not achieving accuracy. The House version of the farm bill contains no nutrition funding whatsoever and there is no bill introduced or pending that would provide any funding. This second “bill” which you are imagining is merely an oral statement from Lucas that is an obvious lie because the clear intent – as stated by Sessions – is to proceed to conference with a nutrition-less farm bill. For there to be a “second bill” would take introduction by a Member (which hasn’t occured), referral to a Committee by the Speaker (which hasn’t occured), hearing by a committee (which hasn’t occured), mark-up by the committee (which hasn’t occured), passage by a Committee (which hasn’t occured), a Rule (which has not been prepared or voted on, debate on the Floor (which hasn’t occured), passage of the rule (which doesn’t exist and passage on the Floor( which won’t happen). So far, your “second bill” idea is just an idea by Lucas, which isn’t going to happen.
Try harder.
Xenos
@patroclus: Can something like this be put in the conference committee bill and resubmitted to Congress? I guess it does not count as one of those spending bill that has to be commenced in the House, but are there not some rules about what you can jerry-rig together in the conference?
patroclus
@Xenos: Yes, the conference could (and probably will if they get that far) put the nutrition funding back in. Then, we will be at precisely the same place we were at 3 weeks ago – with passage depending on Boehner not applying the Hastert Rule and Dems passing the bill with 40-60 Republicans. The problem with that is that Boehner is deliberately alienating the Dems and misleading his tea party colleagues and the normal process of building support for a bill is not being followed. This is not “regular order” and is indicative of a dysfunctional Congress; which makes ultimate passage more uncertain.
patroclus
On final passage, the vote was 216-208, with 11 Republicans bucking their leadership and voting against the bill. The House is now on record as eliminating food stamps and Meals on Wheels entirely from the federal budget. This isn’t just a “cut” – if the House had its way, the nutrition programs are gone. As stated, the Senate and Obama will never go along, but this is a clear reflection of how crazy virtually all Republicans really are.
Tone in DC
@Violet:
Lunch is a good thing, so I had it just now.
On the topic…Anyone with a web connection can see/watch Amy Goodman (and a lot of MSNBC shows).
Is that coverage gonna convert a Faux Noise viewer? Only if that viewer’s on the business end of those cuts.
Villago Delenda Est
The food stamp program isn’t just about feeding hungry people.
It’s also a major economic stimulus program, in that it puts money in the pockets not only of the recipients, but the grocery stores that provide the food they purchase with those food stamps. Grocery stores that employ people, who pay distributors for the food they sell…who further pay their employees….
In short, it’s about how the economy works.
And the teabagger scum do not understand any of this. At all.
Elizabelle
@The Thin Black Duke:
Hello, Duke.
SIA found an obit that would seem to fit General Stuck, who has been MIA and much commented on in recent weeks.
gbear
@Botsplainer: You just described MN to a ‘T’. Almost all of the batshit is in a huge donut that surrounds the Twin Cities. Unfortunately, this donut holds about 50% of the state’s population, so they occasionally hold a majority of state offices. That may have come to an end for a while after the 2012 elections. I’m hoping we’ll stay democratic majority for a while.
MomSense
@Elizabelle:
There is an online guest book that is available to sign until 7/23. We could leave sympathy messages but it seems like it would be wise to confirm. It also doesn’t solve the problem of Charlie. I’m going to message ABL because I “met” him on her blog before I knew about balloon-juice.
Jebediah
@Villago Delenda Est:
And would they care if they did understand? Ideology uber alles, and actual effects and outcomes be damned. If they really cared, for example, about creating jerbs, they would want to promote economic stimuli. But many forms of effective stimulus, like food stamps, involve giving money to people who don’t already have a lot of it, and helping people who need help is something we must never, ever do.
Elizabelle
@MomSense:
Excellent. Thank you.