Ever since Doug posted the latest pronouncement from Hippie-Pope Francis (shorter Francis: “Emulate Jesus, not Sean Hannity”), I’ve been waiting to see how K-Lo would digest the fresh heresy. The hairball she horked up didn’t surprise or disappoint:
The New York Times headline reads: “Pope Bluntly Faults Church’s Focus on Gays and Abortion.” Believe it or not, though, he talked about more than sex.
[snip]In this interview and by his daily witness and words, that’s what this pope is witnessing to, fascinating the world — which may misunderstand at times, as he reproposes some fundamentals and open doors of introduction and renewal.
Pope Francis, in the interview, talks about the healing that the world needs. People need to know about Divine Mercy — a theme consistent with Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict, JPII having largely introduced and emphasized that devotion….
In other words, “Lalalalalalalalalala!” She did the same thing last time Pope Francis let slip that there might be more to Catholicism than scolding gays and abortion sluts.
If I were a nicer person, I might pity the sight of that mean-spirited vestment-sniffer dunking Pope Frank’s sugar pills in vinegar. But I’m not that nice, so I’ll just sit back and enjoy the spectacle.
Open thread.
WereBear
Since it’s an open thread, I wanted to let everyone know it’s Fund Drive Time at the Way of Cats:
I got you a fun slidey thing for donations!
I know things have come up a lot lately, but if you have a few bucks, it would mean so much to my project there. I kept a low profile fundraiser going all this year… and guess what? Donations were down.
So I’m a lot more tolerant of slightly rowdy fund raising stunts. Do you know why people are annoying about it? Because it works.
Dang human nature.
lamh36
WTF!!! Is going on in the world today???
Parents Complain After Child Forced to Reenact Slavery on a Field Trip http://fw.to/GJViOKj
WereBear
Oh, K-Lo. I’d feel sorry for her if she wasn’t so mean.
Mnemosyne
Conservative cafeteria Catholics hate to be reminded that they’re picking and choosing from the menu just like liberal Catholics are accused of doing. It’s pretty amazing to watch the knots they tie themselves into just so they can convince themselves that the RCC is in favor of things that the RCC is actually opposed to, like capital punishment.
Chris
That’s the fucking point. (NPI).
I just read the same misreaction from the local campus Catholic group; “DURR, silly liberals think the Pope is pro-ghey! But he’s not! He’s just as anti-ghey as ever!” THE ENTIRE POINT of the Pope’s pronouncement is that he talked about more than sex. That’s why it’s such a breath of fresh air after decades on end of being told that the only issues we were supposed to ever consider in the ballot box were abortion and gay marriage. And the entire message to people like K-Lo was, precisely, “the Church needs to be about more than just sex.”
Not surprisingly, it sailed completely over all their heads.
piratedan
@lamh36: obviously that child is confused, simply some states asserting their sovereign rights and some unwarranted Northern aggression had taken place….
WereBear
@Chris: When, just like fundamentalists of other stripes, all they think about is sex.
jl
Was looking at Wikipedia article on historical rankings of U.S. Presidents. Only one study, a poll of historians by Siena College included results for Obama.
Obama was ranked 15 for his presidency through 2010, in just below Andrew Jackson and just above LBJ. GW Bush was 39.
Here is some detail on results for GW for the 2006 Siena poll.
‘ A 2006 Siena College poll of 744 professors reported the following results:[13]
“George W. Bush has just finished five years as President. If today were the last day of his presidency, how would you rank him? The responses were: Great: 2%; Near Great: 5%; Average: 11%; Below Average: 24%; Failure: 58%.”
“In your judgment, do you think he has a realistic chance of improving his rating?” Two-thirds (67%) responded no; less than a quarter (23%) responded yes; and 10% chose “no opinion or not applicable.” ‘
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States
What I wonder is, shouldn’t GW’s first term be handed over to Cheney, so Cheney could get a rating?
scav
almost as good as “We must not reduce the bosom of the universal church to a nest protecting our mediocrity.” (but I’m rather fond of sharp , short edges, internally applied).
I’m assuming fair use can bend to the larger quote as it is meant to be all that flamey whatever among the peoples. Certainly sounds better, but that is one bulky infrastructure of gold-plated hierarchy and prejudiced privilege in the way.
Trollhattan
Lost pet posters have become some sort of performance art.
http://www.smosh.com/smosh-pit/photos/19-hilarious-lost-pet-flyers-gallery
Maybe somebody clever can gin one up for K-Lo? Missing: K-Lo’s moral compass. Missing: The abortion-warrior pope.
Amir Khalid
@jl:
And if you include Darth Cheney in the rankings, you get to give George Walker Bush the ranking he truly deserves: 45th.
shortstop
@WereBear: Don’t they ever? I’ve previously confessed here to a sometimes-guilty pleasure of reading and enjoying NOM supporters’ wails of “horror” at our perversion-loving and gay-enabling mass culture. The other night I popcorned my way through a Facebook thread in which each participant vied to outshock the others in graphic descriptions of the fun people get up to at pride parades. “I heard they wet their underwear so it will stick to their private parts!” “They simulated anal sex right there on the float!” Their titillation was at about mach 4. I strongly suspect that at least half of them were rubbing one out as they typed.
jl
@jl: In the 2010 Siena poll of historians GW was ranked above Pierce, Harding, Buchanan and Andrew Johnson.
Aggregate consensus of polls puts Big Dawg Bill Clinton at 20 just below Cleveland and just above McKinley. I think that is a little bit better than Clinton expected. I remember reading that as he left office, he thought he would be remembered as a mediocre, slightly below average territory. Didn’t sound like he expected that he would be in Grover Cleveland territory!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
looking at the NewsMax headlines to the right,
the charitable explanation is that they’re being cleverly snarky about Meat Puppet Denny “I make all donut related decisions!” Hastert in referring to Tom Delay as ex-speaker. The more likely explanation is that they’re stupid.
kindness
I have to think she acts this way because she had a child out of wedlock. Which to me is no big to me. My daughter was born while her Mom wasn’t married. But something eats at J Lo. She is always trying to be purer than the next and it shows.
dmsilev
At work today, I bought some parts from a company named PeterPaul. Apparently Mary was pushed out after a leadership struggle or something.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@kindness: I think you’re thinking of Maggie Gallagher? (and I think you’re right). I’m pretty sure K-Lo is a proud public virgin whilst waiting for Rich Lowry to realize all his starbursts are really for her, hence Sister Inviolata
Fuzzy
To think that many of us who are not Catholics or non-believers really don’t give a shit what this man says is most comforting.
Schlemizel
I hear a lot of noise falling out of his mouth but forgive me if I wait until I see something actually happen. After Franks first attempt at backing off the gay hate spokespriests for the Church announced he had been mistaken. When you tried to include the non-believers a few a days later the same band played “he was misunderstood”. I know he is the titular head of the outfit but that does not mean he actually runs the show
Chris
@jl:
I have a hard time thinking of any president to rank below W, except, I suppose, Buchanan.
MikeJ
@WereBear:
Think about the places we’ve had our little fun
In the church at Christmas, busted by that nun
Then in that museum, beneath the Mastodon
Stating our positions on the White House lawn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msro9PGsLmc
kc
I just hope Scalia is taking it badly.
Chris
@Schlemizel:
Oh, he’s got a long way to go yet before I’ll even consider sitting my ass back in a pew. But I’m enjoying watching the old school squirm uncomfortably as they scramble to rationalize and “clarify” how really, what that ACTUALLY means is… etc.
Worst case scenario, he ends up like Khatami in Iran – ultimately unable or unwilling to make meaningful changes in the system, but still a breath of fresh air if only in terms of rhetoric.
Trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’d think for K-Lo, baby-out-of-wedlock would be an aspirational dream.
Shakezula
The pope’s suggestion that it would be kind of nice if the RCC would soft pedal the hatred has given Ms. Klozapine a stroke.
Also, does she have any claim to explaining the teachings of the church beyond being one of those holier than thou types who usually turns out to also be a pervier than thou type?
Jay C
@jl:
Great: two drunks, a horny hack, and the guy who let the Civil War get started: Dubya’s in really good company there…..
scav
@Schlemizel: Well, of course, but as a tweak in the usual dreary story arc they’ve been putting on for us for a good long while, it is at least a change. Story will probably end in the usual stereotypey way, but it’s not a perfect rerun. (NB stunning how much faster those beanies can run when it’s the euros, rather that soulos at stake). It’s not like we have a lot of opportunities for channel-switching, all in all.
Roger Moore
@lamh36:
I suspect that their hearts are in the right place- they want kids to know how terrible slavery was and think a realistic portrayal will help them learn- and that’s enough to make them ignore the obvious problems with making one student play the slave. They’re still awful for not listening to repeated complaints.
jl
@Chris: I don’t understand why William Henry Harrison gets ranked so low. All the poor guy did was foolishly try to disguise his ill health by giving a four hour inaugural address in a rainstorm and die a month later.
So he did nothing and should be automatically given the median rank, right?
Or maybe he gets a lot of points off for making such a botch of his first decision in office? Maybe that is the reasoning.
Edit: then too, he put Tyler on his ticket, the riskiest and most potentially explosive token veep in history. OK, poor old WHW, points off!
WereBear
K-Lo is the perfect art of the self-hating Catholic.
Fortunately, not everyone is that way. Or they bail.
Roger Moore
@kc:
Maybe it’ll make him suicidal. We can always dream, right?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@jl: Children:
We are the mediocre Presidents.
You won’t find our faces on dollars or on cents.
There’s Taylor, there’s Tyler, there’s Fillmore and there’s Hayes,
There’s William Henry Harrison.
Harrison:
I died in thirty days!
Children:
We…
Are…
The…
Adequate, forgettable,
Occasionally regrettable
Caretaker Presidents of the U.S.A.!
Felonius Monk
@Chris:
Truly not surprising in K-Lo’s case since she usually has her head up her ass.
Roger Moore
@WereBear:
I thought Catholics were supposed to be self hating. Isn’t that the point of teaching you to feel guilty for every time you put your foot the tiniest bit out of line?
jl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Nice. But Truman and Eisenhower were caretaking for JFK and LBJ? It got a little overly broad at the end.
opiejeanne
@Trollhattan: The one for Pierre is reminiscent of Big Fido from “Men At Arms”.
eemom
I know, baby steps and all that…..I just think it’s hilariously tragic, or tragically hilarious, that the leader of a major religion saying in essence, “Maybe we should stop being assholes 24/7“, is hailed as some kind of major breakthrough.
Heliopause
I’m not sure there is. Take that away and there’s not much separating the RCC and mainline protestantism. RCC rituals are far more tedious so if they start accepting gays and sluts you might as well convert to Methodism or something and get your weekly Jesus out of the way in an hour or so.
opiejeanne
@Chris: Hoover?
piratedan
@eemom: agreed, but like most folks, lets see some deeds… platitudes, got plenty of those…
John O
K-Lo is one of those rare individuals who could truly benefit from going off and fucking herself.
Chris
@opiejeanne:
DERP! … I don’t know how I missed that one. Okay. Buchanan, Hoover, W Bush. The trifecta of worst presidents ever.
cathyx
I’m with @Fuzzy: . Who cares what he says if you’re not a religious type? All I hear when someone like this talks is what Charlie Brown hears when a grownup speaks.
Villago Delenda Est
Mammon worshiping heretics like Lopez need to be crucified.
Villago Delenda Est
@lamh36:
The way to actually make it a teaching point is have the black kids be the masters, and the white kids be the slaves.
Mnemosyne
I got an ad for the revival of “Evita.” Just sayin’.
Villago Delenda Est
@Amir Khalid:
Oh, I don’t know, Amir. The deserting coward was unquestionably a fuckup, but it’s going to be very difficult for anyone to dislodge James Buchanan from the pit in the basement.
The Pale Scot
@kindness: “I have to think she acts this way because she had a child out of wedlock” That was Maggie Gagreflex. J-L0 is most likely a virgin.
Will not make a reference about how a night out on the town might be a blessing…
…But it could.
Chris
@opiejeanne:
I can’t help but think that Reagan belongs somewhere on there. He brought the poison pill back into the system that’s responsible for virtually all our economic deterioration since then… and at least during the Gilded Age you could say robber barons were a step up from slave owners, whereas the Second Gilded Age = giant step back.
Still, if Reagan set the charges, Bush was the one who set them off.
Fernando Poo
So she admits that her argument against abortion and gay right is all about sex. Not the sanctity of life or marriage, just sex.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Villago Delenda Est: It’s been thirty-odd years– closer to forty as I think about it, but I remember we were all pretty horrified just by watching Roots ETA: without the grotesque role-playing described in that article, is my point, not that watching a TV show should be the end of the lesson. As an adult, I’m horrified by the memory of the sixty-ish teacher who told us that a lot of slaves were actually better off than factory workers in the North.
The Pale Scot
@Heliopause: @Heliopause:
The gap between fundie Calvinism and Cath doctrine is wide. Caths don’t believe that god has decided who was going to hell before they were born. That faith trumps works.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jay C:
Well, he comes by at least one of them honestly. Franklin Pierce was his great-great-great-something or other grandfather (his mother’s maiden name was Barbara Pierce).
So apparently, being a lousy POTUS kind of runs in that family.
SiubhanDuinne
@Roger Moore:
Especially when that foot is clad in patent leather!
SiubhanDuinne
@eemom:
Yeah, but here’s the thing: it actually IS a major breakthrough.
Tommy
@cathyx: I hear you but wonder. My parents are pretty religious. I am an atheist. My parents when they retired moved back to the town and into the house my grandfather built. You walk in that Methodist church and my family has paid for much of it.
I had a distant cousin move back to the small rural town. Openly gay. Not in your face about it, but clearly gay and living with her partner of 30+ years. They asked to go to church with my parents. They are like sure, come along.
They were openly mocked. Made fun of behind their back.
My father was like you can’t pick up a Bible in this church. The wheel chair access. The freaking front doors of the place we paid for, and you can’t be understanding and nice to our own family members?
It was the most proud I’ve ever been of my moderate Republican dad. At the end, and my dad never cusses, he told them to go fuck themselves. His support of the church was done.
SiubhanDuinne
@Chris: I’ve been putting off mentioning this. A little background for context: I retired a couple of months ago but am still going in to my old place of employment two or three days a week, working on special projects part-time. The person who was hired to replace me in my former job worked, until recently, for a GOP Member of Congress, and this person’s walls are covered with huge posters of Reagan and all kinds of Republican/military/gun stuff. I haven’t said anything (not my place, although I have rolled my eyes quite a lot) but I can’t help wondering what the official reaction would have been if I had plastered my office walls with huge posters of Obama or Clinton or even a tasteful JFK shrine.
barbequebob
I’m confused. I re-read the Jo-Lo thing, and have also read pope article. Pope seems to be saying that they (Catholic Church) should stop being such assholes, focused on gays, contraception, and abortion, and from what I read, Jo-Lo, was agreeing with this.
What am I missing? FWIW, I hate the Catholic Church and don’t know this Jo-Lo from the one who dated Ben Affleck, so I am looking at what she wrote, and just that, and wondering what terrible thing did she say?
raven
@Tommy: Did you catch this campaign ad with Carl Sciortino and his dad, “Father’s Son” . Carl is openly gay and his dad is a teabagger. I thought of this when you told your story.
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman: I know, I really do wonder if he made an irrevocable decision based on a temporary aberration.
gelfling545
@Heliopause: Back in the day we had a (RC) pastor who was renowned for saying mass in 20 min. I’ve been to services in Lutheran, Methodist, UCC, Episcopal, Presbyterian & even Spiritualist churches & never saw anybody who could beat his record.
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman:
:-)
Well, we are supposed to be apolitical in the job. It did/does get ridiculous sometimes, like not being allowed to post or even respond to something of FB that might have partisan implications. (I said to my boos at the time, “Shit, I’m going to be limited to ‘liking’ cute kittens!”)* But I do think a huge in-your-face Reagan poster is a bit beyond the pale.
*No offense to Schroedinger’s Cat.
SiubhanDuinne
@SiubhanDuinne:
Um: boss, not boos.
Tommy
@raven: Yeah I did. Nice to see it again. About ten years ago my father asked me if I was gay, how could a fairly good looking guy, fit, made a fair amount of money, not be married? I explained to him it was kind of complex.
When that distant cousin of mine moved in the best thing for my Republican parents. Not sure they knew an openly gay couple before. I wasn’t sure how that would work out, well it worked out well.
I wouldn’t cal them gay right activist, but they learned to think another way. I recall my mom saying to me “they are just like us. They argue. They don’t agree. It is like they are married.”
The Pale Scot
@SiubhanDuinne: Dude, you only need RFK
and the Fearsome Foursome.
raven
@Tommy: My oldest niece is gay and it was funny watching my mom and sister ignore what was SO obvious for so long. I worked hard with my mom but I’m not sure she ever thought it wasn’t a “phase” the young lady was in. It didn’t keep her from loving her but she was never quite settled.
Tommy
@gelfling545: The Priest in the Catholic Chruch my mother was raised in was fired a number of years ago. First off he worked for free, lived off his Navy pension. So there is that.
But he changed the Liturgy around a little, cause he saw less younger people coming into the church. Wanted to make it more accessible. Somebody, as I like to joke that had WAY too much time on their hands recorded it and sent it to the Bishop. He was told to write a letter and say this was wrong. He refused.
Fired. Shit canned.
I come from a family where I have went to more then a few funerals and marriages in that church. I always felt the priest was a “rockstar.” Knew I was an atheist and never treated me like I was four. Talked to me like I was an adult (which I was) and always a wonderful person.
cathyx
@Tommy: I don’t understand about adhering to some old guy’s opinion about things. I believe what I believe because it makes sense to me, not because someone is telling me what I’m supposed to believe.
raven
@cathyx: Maybe it’s not aimed at you now is it?
The Pale Scot
@SiubhanDuinne: The Pale Scot: Or Dudette, wasn’t paying attention.
Tommy
@cathyx: Read what I wrote. I am agreeing with you I think.
cathyx
@Tommy: And I’m agreeing with you.
Tommy
@cathyx: No worries. A short text post IMHO can often not be understood.
cathyx
@raven: No, it’s clearly not aimed at me. I’m saying that I don’t understand the people who it is aimed at.
opiejeanne
@gelfling545: Methodists used to have a clock at the back of the sanctuary where the minister could see it. Service was supposed to be an hour long and it disrupted other church activities when it ran over.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@opiejeanne: I think I learned to tell time turning around and staring at the big black and white clock at the back of our RC Church, willing it to move faster
opiejeanne
@Tommy: It’s the local yokels who are to blame. Meanwhile, every annual conference the UMC tries to tear itself in half over the ordination of gay preachers. There is just barely a big enough pushback that we can’t get that one done but we keep hoping that will change.
My parents belonged to one of the “reconciling” UMC and much of the ministry at those Methodist churches is in healing the damage gays have had done to them by churches and society.
The Wesleyan Methodist church, on the other hand, is so right wing they make me itch.
raven
@cathyx: But dang, there are millions of folks who hang on his every words. Better his words be in a positive direction.
Chris
@Tommy:
About ten years ago, I heard about this “gay marriage” issue on the radio for the first time (was a teenager). It had never really occurred to me before, but after about two minutes I concluded “that’s stupid, why don’t they just let them marry?” Cue a ten minute argument with my mother who thought that stuff was just unnatural.
A few weeks later, I find out from my dad that she was now worried that I might be gay.
I… wasn’t sure what was more ludicrously stupid: the fact that her mind had immediately jumped to “the only way he could possibly hold that opinion if he was gay himself” (makes me wonder if my dad, when he was marching for civil rights, ever had his dad sit down and go “son, you’re mother’s worried you might be black”) or the fact that she found my potential gayness something to “worry” about. Oy.
(Nowadays, Dad supports gay marriage and Mom… doesn’t bring it up).
WereBear
Cracked me right up.
opiejeanne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Heh. Me too.
We went every Sunday. I enjoyed parts of it but mostly I was bored when I was little, unless my grandma’s best friend was there. She always wore a fox stole made of the whole fox, head to tail, paws and all (I know, the horror! but I was very little) that had the spring-loaded clasp as part of their mouths. If she was there she always let me play with the clasps and pet them.
I really liked the other stuff, like the parties and potlucks in the church basement, and for two solid summers the adults had a building meeting after the potluck every Saturday, and the kids all watched classic horror films in one of the Sunday School rooms. Godzilla! Dracula! Mothra! I have fond memories of that church.
AdamK
@Chris: Jackson was a lot more genocidy.
opiejeanne
@raven: Oh gods, my son was turned down for a date by a girl at his HS because she had tickets to see the pope, back in the 80s.
My best friend who happens to be a devout Catholic said that was a worse excuse than needing to wash her hair.
opiejeanne
@AdamK: Yeah, I was thinking that.
raven
@opiejeanne: I went to see the Dali at Emory. He said “I feel as if I am preaching to the choir”! Patti Smyth was in the choir!
opiejeanne
@raven: Wow.
My BIL had a chance to go meet the Dali at his home, somewhere in India (I think), but the moment was fleeting and he didn’t act quickly enough. His girlfriend’s parents have a summer home next door to his, but the father died while he was still saving up. Heck, for a chance like that I’d have scraped up the money somehow and just gone.
opiejeanne
@efgoldman: The last church I was active in had a young minister who TOOK DOWN THE DURNED CLOCK. Nice guy but long-winded and not at all what Methodists expect as far as scholarship. I think most of the congregation felt a little sorry for him because he could never quite figure out how to bring his sermon full-circle back to the point we thought he was trying to make at the beginning. There is a pattern: tell a clever joke, relate the joke to a piece of scripture somehow, talk about how it relates to all of us, etc. then tie it all together with a nice bow at the end.
I’m just relieved I never heard him try to explain the parable of the wedding attendants.
raven
@opiejeanne:
His Holiness the XIV Dalai Lama, Presidential Distinguished Professor at Emory University, will return to Atlanta October 8-10, 2013 for a series of public and campus events, including programs on responsible citizenship, ethics and education.
http://www.dalailama.emory.edu/2013/index.html
opiejeanne
@raven: Thank you, that sounds wonderful. I think he is a wonderful human being.
schrodinger's cat
@SiubhanDuinne: Hey no fair, I have lots of things on my blog besides cute kittehz. As for the kittehs, they are sometimes there for the cute and sometimes to make a broader point, like stupid Samuelson is stupid.
Actually today was kittehless day on the blog as well, instead I had a post about the Ganesh festival and its relation to India’s freedom struggle.
raven
@opiejeanne: Ever see Kundun?
Jay C
@SiubhanDuinne:
Odd, but Dubya’s relationship with Franklin Pierce (via Babs) is true, but a bit less direct: (via Wikipedia):
Our 14th President didn’t have any direct descendents (which, in retrospect, had to have been no small part of his wife’s chronic depression and his own rep for boozing)
opiejeanne
@raven: No. It’s on my list of things to find and watch. I have some gaps in my memory these days, but in reading about it just now I must have read about the movie when it was being made or right after it was released.
raven
@opiejeanne: It’s a Scorsese film and almost all of the actors are Tibetan. Wonderful film.
Chris
@AdamK:
He actually did occur to me, but the problem with the Indian ethnic cleansing is that there were more than a few presidents involved, enough that it gets hard to distinguish who was worst (the final stages happened in the Gilded Age, if memory serves).
Elmo
@Tommy:
Dead thread, so you may not see this, but in case you do – much respect and admiration to your father. May his memory live a thousand years.
kindness
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: My mistake. Yes you are correct. Brainfart on my part.
Ramalama
I just love the word “Horked”. It’s permanently embedded into my lexicon.
EthylEster
@barbequebob: Look, the front pager says K-Lo horked up a furball. You got a lot of nerve actually evaluating what K-Lo wrote. /snark off
I found the article to be the most non-bad thing I have ever read by K-Lo. Most of the time she does hork up furballs. But she was not crazy this time. Which is probably as good as it is going to get.
barbequebob
@EthylEster:
Thanks for the confirmation. Maybe she is crazy most the time (I don’t read her), but it does not help to accuse someone of writing somethiing crazy when it is not. One loses credibility that way