I know you’re sick of hearing me whine about false equivalency, but here’s the thing I don’t get about “both sides do it” with the shutdown: there aren’t two sides! There’s the hard-core teahadists who want the shutdown, the non-teahadist Republicans (nearly all mainstream conservative pundits, and probably most Republican Congressmen) who didn’t want it but went along (for whatever reason), and the Democrats who don’t want it.
I get that the House Republicans did vote for the shutdown in effect, but there’s been a trillion articles about how much they hate Ted Cruz for putting them in this situation or how most don’t want a shutdown but feel compelled to vote the way they are because of fear of primaries.
I just don’t see a way to take Boehner, Ted Cruz, and Obama and break them into only two sides. A lot of conservative media seems grasp this (Robert Costa’s done a lot of good reporting on this) but establishment media is so locked into BOTH SIDES DO IT that they can’t even attempt to describe a situation where there are more than two sides or where the two most relevant sides are within the same party.
replicnt6
All three sides do it.
There. Happy?
Yatsuno
You are questioning Teh Narrative. Teh Narrative is sacred, it is ineffable, it is unalterable. Teh Narrative says there can only be two sides to any issue and both sides must be equally to blame for said issue. Anything outside this does not exist in the mind of the Village because it violates Teh Narrative.
No go, and sin no more.
joes527
You misspelled: “Peter King and one other dude.”
Seriously, I call bullshit on this whole “the wackos are holding the republican party hostage” thing. The wackos are most republican congressmen. They have demonstrated it.
Manyakitty
Seriously! I was listening to NPR this afternoon and their insistence on discussing the Democrats’ unwillingness to compromise made me want to vomit. I might have, but I was driving home and didn’t want to soil my car.
Omnes Omnibus
Unless it is a ball game, there are never just two sides to anything.
Frankensteinbeck
Admitting that three sides exist would threaten other cherished narratives. The Tea Party was a grassroots movement of independents who happen to see the wisdom of responsible Republicanism. Politics is only a game. Screwing the poor is responsible governing. The Republicans are the party of strong, mature adults. The whole media house of cards is at risk here.
Mandalay
@ Doug Milhous J:
That’s a distinction without a difference.
Whatever their reasons, most Republicans voted for the shutdown. You’re the last person on earth I’d expect to be worrying about what’s really in their heart as opposed to what they actually did.
MattF
One of the basic media narratives is “Let’s you and him fight.” Normally, this is a great narrative because you get conflict, drama, a good ‘quote of the day’, and the editorial board gets to be the adult in the room, advising everyone to play nice. The trick is that everyone knows it’s just for show. But people like Bachmann (and maybe Cruz) haven’t gotten the hint– and the game is blown up.The WaPo is trying to fit the pieces back together again, but Humpty is just not cooperating.
Also, in the specific case of the WaPo, you’ve also got Marc ‘war criminal’ Theissen giving advice on how to win by taking hostages, which is just embarrassing.
Frankensteinbeck
Oh, and the MOST important narrative is at risk: National TV and newspaper journalists are politically savvy, hard hitting newsmen who have been reporting on this issue in a scrupulously honest and unbiased way all along.
jl
Republicans in disarray just doesn’t have the right big media ring to it.
But, hell, you got GOPers yelling at each other in the Senate and House GOPers yelling at each other on TV.
I guess the media news actors will need to start practicing the line in the morning before they go on the air.
Hill Dweller
@Manyakitty:
The political media in this country is largely made up of self-interested cowards. Claiming both sides are equally to blame is a safe harbor of sorts. It also eliminates the need for any really analysis and/or risk taking.
The side effect of this sort of cowardice is the enabling of Republican extremism. Anything short of Republicans actually killing people(with video evidence) will be rationalized by the ghouls in the beltway.
Doug Milhous J
@Mandalay:
Sure but most Republican strategists are saying “this is stupid”, there’s endless articles about the tension between the House and Ted Cruz, there is a real conflict there.
srv
Doug, the world is black and white. Up and down. Good and evil.
The older you get, the more obvious this should be. There are three stages of development for most meat popsicles:
1) Childhood – absolutist
2) Late childhood/Early adult – world becomes filled with grays
3) After 30 – absolutist
I thought you were over 30, but maybe I’m confused.
The Dangerman
The moment Boehner tells the Tea Partiers to go pound sand up their ass is the moment he, at least temporarily, loses his speakership (it would be temporary, and short, if Pelosi became speaker).
Violet
They didn’t vote for the shutdown “in effect”, they voted for the fucking shutdown. Why give them an out? If they’re afraid of being primaried, then that’s their own fucking problem. They put their own fears of being primaried and losing their cushy positions ahead of the good of the country. They are traitors.
I understand that there are shades of treason–some are more gleeful about it that others–but who cares? They are all traitors.
Suffern ACE
Ummmm. No. The republicans would not like their donors to have to pay increased taxes to subsidize the uninsured. They would like those taxes repealed. The moderate wing of the party is not enabling the tea party or trapped by it. They have the same goals, which is why they keep voting the way that they do.
jl
@Hill Dweller: Hey, who turns down money for nothing, especially multi hundred K and multi million dollar contracts?
Bothsidesdoit!
Comrade Jake
Just saw that George Will is moving to Fox. About time I guess. I just wonder what right wing hack ABC will replace him with.
Roger Moore
@joes527:
This. Any Republican congresscritter who wants a clean CR has only to vote against the ones with extraneous crap and say exactly why they’re doing it. If enough of them vote no to keep it from passing, Boehner will have much less wiggle room to claim a mandate to keep pushing anything but a clean CR.
Manyakitty
@Hill Dweller: Agreed. And of course, none of the talking heads, disembodied voices, or congressional cowards want to/have to actually LIVE in the fantasy world they’re creating for the rest of us.
schrodinger's cat
I am watching the Snooze Hour and Stu Rothenberg and Susan Page assured me that it was all Obama’s fault for being too uncompromising.
Baud
I agree with those who say that there are only two sides in this instance. Being too weak to stand up to tea baggers does not create a new side.
Violet
@Doug Milhous J:
Until and unless that conflict manifests itself in actual votes, what difference does it make?
JPL
@Comrade Jake: Erick Erickson former city council member in Macon, GA.
Talk about creative parents naming their child after their last name.. cool..
you are now ja jake…
also.. just a guess
jl
@The Dangerman: I’ve been wondering whether Pelosi would (or could?) do a deal to keep Boehner Speaker with bipartisan support temporarily?
I don’t know enough about the Speakership election rules and political realities to know. But if Boehner came to Pelosi and gave her the early inside scoop on what nutcase would replace him, could that happen?
Now, a guy like Willie Brown would be to smart to ever get in Boehner’s position, but if he were, what political magic would he think up?
If Boehner keeps up his loser chump punk’d a thousand times a minute act, laced with some croby golf clubhouse bravado, he will go down as one of the biggest losers and jackasses in Congressional history. If he’s lucky. If things go really bad with government shutdown and default, then historians might have to make him an honorary hideously bad president, along with Buchanan and Dub.
What a loser that guy is.
I said last week I did not think a shutdown would happen, and did not think a default would happen, and it would not an instant catastrophe if there were a short episode of default. So, I wasn’t worrying…. yet.
But then I ponder on Johnny Bones, cheap two-bit loser hood and chump, who is now second most powerful politician in the country,. And I wonder how far down the road that ‘yet’ is.
Edit: Let’s fantasize and think of things Boehner could do to pull himself out of the political and historical cesspool he is diving into. What could he do to get out, assuming something like that is within his realm of comprehension?
dmsilev
@Violet:
Yeah, this. Which is why I wanted to punch a fist through a wall when I read about a couple of GOP jerkwads who this morning heroically helped tear down a barrier keeping some WWII vets from entering the WWII Memorial in DC. Hey, assholes, YOU were responsible for putting that barrier up, you don’t get to preen and prance about tearing it down.
Ash Can
Based on some of his tweets I’ve seen repeated elsewhere, Costa is indeed describing the internicine skirmishes within the Congressional GOP in an accurate and unflinching manner.
Maybe the RW pundits are so thrown for a loop by the internal party flare-ups that they’ve been shocked into simply reporting what they’re seeing. Maybe they’re choosing sides within the RW/GOP. Or maybe — and IMO by far the most likely — they’ve seen this coming for a while since they’ve been closer to these guys, and have already been thinking in terms of intraparty factions, so this has become SOP for them and there’s nothing terribly remarkable to them about the fact that Peter King wants to give Ted Cruz a pair of cement overshoes and drop him off Key Bridge, and there’s certainly no point to sweeping it under the rug. At any rate, when one of your go-to guys for reporting on the GOP food fight is one of the editors of National Racists Online, you know you’re down the rabbit hole.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@jl:
Fuck that. Let ’em replace Boehner with someone who represents the real face of the Republican party. We need to stop trying to imagine we can save them from themselves. They need to be allowed to destroy themselves so whomever is left can move forward.
Kristin
The media is the complicit “4th side” to all of this.
Kay
“My friend the Republican leader spoke as if George Orwell wrote his speech,” he said. “This is ‘1984,’ where up is down, down is up, east is west.” Nobody, Mr. Reid continued, was more thrilled to have the government closed than the Tea Party. “We had a good day for the anarchists,” he said. “Why? Because the government is closed.”
I love the rhetorical question gambit. “Why?”
It was a good day for the anarchists, is all he can say.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: Where ya bean frijole?
eemom
@schrodinger’s cat:
“I am watching the Snooze Hour and Stu Rothenberg and Susan Page assured me that it was all Obama’s fault for being too uncompromising.”
Why, in the name of all the fucks, do y’all LISTEN to these people?
I mean, I get that the narrative is out there and it must be reckoned with and fought against — but you don’t have to subject yourself to it, in order to do that.
Is there some kind of opus dei self-flagellation subcult going on here that I’m not aware of?
The Dangerman
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader:
After we get through the debt ceiling shit, please….
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: Busy.
Mnemosyne
@dmsilev:
I still don’t get the disconnect required to be an elected official who thinks that s/he is somehow not part of the government. WTF?
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: O
Keith G
John Stewart won the discussion about “both sides”, hands down. Of course humor (and good writing) is always a powerful agent of communication.
WereBear
Just got to watch the Presidential Address today: Obamacare is fully funded and already rolling out.
Just HOW is the President supposed to stop it?
raven
Tweety just played a clip of Newt saying Obama “refuses to act like an American president”.
Patricia Kayden
Both sides don’t do it. No need to continue to play along with the MSM when they lie about that. Just continue to call out their nonsense.
JPL
@raven: nice
As I mentioned multiple times, Newt’s goons threw eggs at me on a street corner when I was holding signs up for the democratic candidate. Unfortunately, Newt was actually better than my rep now.
dmsilev
@Kay: I’m very glad to see that Reid and a bunch of other Democrats aren’t mincing words at all in describing what’s going on. Words like ‘hostage’, ‘ransom’, ‘anarchists’, etc. Maybe I’m looking in the wrong places, but I also haven’t seen a huge amount of whining about incivility either.
burnspbesq
Democratia has always been at war with Teapartia, right up until the moment that it has always been at war with Republicana.
rikyrah
Both sides DO NOT DO IT and fuck all the mofos who say they do
rikyrah
Humming along to Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire
……………………..
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2013/10/1/154612/370
jl
@raven: Little Newtie! I like the team of used up old crooks conmen and two-timing wife abandoners the GOP is trotting out.
raven
@JPL: Fucking punks.
The Dangerman
@raven:
Dog WhistleBull HornChris
Doug, I think you’re missing the whole point of the narrative. When people say “both sides do it,” they’re implicitly adding themselves as the Reasonable, Very Serious, Moderate person in the middle, the adult in the room, beleaguered from both sides by these unreasonable radical children while valiantly trying to chart the Only Sensible Course.
So, in this case; “Both Sides” = Barack Obama the Socialist Muslim Radical, and Ted Cruz the Crazy Bomb Throwing Anarchist. Boehner and those like him represent the reasonable middle ground, tragically eroded by years of senseless partisanship.
(Cue speculation and gossip about how this might have turned out if only Obama hadn’t driven the radicals of the other side to further extremism by being so unreasonable during the last five years).
Hal
So what exactly is the point in trying to delay the individual mandate by one year? The only think I can think of is that the Republicans were hoping that with a delay they could possibly win a Senate majority and expand on the house majorities and use those numbers to over turn the ACA? Otherwise there is no reason to delay the individual mandate.
To me this is Terri Schiavo all over again. Subversion of the legislative process coupled with a big middle finger to the constitution, no matter how many little booklets these fools pull out of their pockets on the floor of Congress.
Violet
Posted this earlier, but in case anyone missed it: http://thegopshutdown.com/
SiubhanDuinne
@Manyakitty: Yeah, me too. Then came Marketplace, and there was some guy on talking about the first-day hiccups in the ACA online registry, and he concluded his report by saying something to the effect of If we get to mid-November and there are still all these “computer glitches,”* it could end up being really bad news.
I worked for NPR for a long time, and still have a strong residual affection for what it once was. But it hasn’t been that network in decades, and I really need to wrest myself free of its grasp.
*You could hear the scare quotes in his delivery. That’s why I included them.
Roger Moore
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader:
Great, except that a major blow-up is likely to take a lot of innocent bystanders down with them. I think the goal for the Democrats has to be to try to guide the Republicans to a public destruction that does as little collateral damage as possible.
Ash Can
@jl:
I’m feeling kind of the same way now, up to a point. I still think a default will be averted, but now I think that it will more likely happen through Obama’s actions than through the House GOP’s. I had been thinking that the heavyweight money guys would beat the House Republicans into submission and they’d STFU and raise the damned debt ceiling — perhaps at the last minute, but they’d do it themselves. Now, however, after seeing how quickly, easily, and completely every last GOP House member capitulated to the core of extremists in their caucus last night, I’m thinking that even the heavyweights may not get to these yahoos. They’ll drive right off the cliff, with some laughing and cheering and boozing all the way, and the rest insisting that their colleagues are awful for doing this, but they have no choice but to be awful along with them. And it will be left up to the president to take extraordinary measures based on his best understanding of the Constitution, and leave it to the courts (and Congress, because they’ll surely impeach him for it) to figure out if he decided right.
Amir Khalid
My dear American friends: You definitely don’t need to be reminded of this, but there’s a whole planet watching you and going “Dafuq?”.
Davis X. Machina
@Keith G: John Stewart knows from both sides. He’s a ‘both sides do it’ maven. He put a quarter of a million people on the Mall in DC on the back of the premise that ‘both sides do it’.
CVS
The reason is quite simple, actually. In a gerrymandered district, they have no fear from the left, but much to fear from the hard right. Thus the hard line.
? Martin
The bottom line on the both sides thing in this case is the fact that Boehner will not bring a bill to the floor that requires Democrats to pass. Period. What the Democrats are willing to sign onto is utterly meaningless. The only thing that matters is what Republicans are willing to pass all by themselves.
Ajaye
@Manyakitty: npr is just plain awful
Kay
@dmsilev:
He’s been ranting for days. I don’t think he gives a shit anymore. Remember when he was making completely blind allegations about Romney’s tax returns? He sounds like that.
I thought this was interesting:
I don’t think they’ll do it (because it would never end) but it must be genuinely an OUTRAGE if they’re threatening.
I didn’t understand the weird attack on certain federal employees myself, why they were so triumphant with that, like it was this huge trump card they pulled out. It’s so insidery and oddly specific.
Davis X. Machina
@Mnemosyne: They’re freedom fighters. Part of the rebel alliance. They may serve in the Galactic Senate, but they’re not of the Galactic Senate.
Violet
Link. Keep in mind the TSA is working for free right now.
dmsilev
House is voting now on one of those stupid mini-CRs to fund just one department. Needs a 2/3s majority to pass, and with most of the votes in, there are only 4 D defectors, meaning it’s likely to fail.
So much for Plan E (I think). I wonder whether this will end before we hit Scheme Z (Bostonians will recognize that reference…)
SiubhanDuinne
@dmsilev: That story infuriated me more than perhaps any other stupid anecdote that came out of today’s news. And then the Members, and I use the term advisedly, who are prepared to fund the parts of government they (or their constituents) really, really like.
Assdouches.
Keith G
@Davis X. Machina: That was one action held just a little after Obama was telling folks that he couldn’t support my right to marry. Sometimes it’s good to broaden one’s criteria before writing a person off.
dmsilev
@Kay: They did leak those emails earlier today. Basically, Boehner was lobbying behind the scenes to make sure that Congressional staff would get the necessary waivers so that their health care was paid for. Then, he turned around and publicly tried to torpedo that.
jl
@Ash Can: Problem is that the House GOP is run by that worthless mook and cheesy two-bit hood Johnny Bones. If I were a moderate GOPer in the House, I wouldn’t trust Boehner as far as I could throw a house on fire to take any kind of stand against the nutcases, at least one that lasted longer than smoker’s cough. It would wheeze out soon enough and I would be left to my own devices.
Villago Delenda Est
@Comrade Jake:
Well, it’s not like there isn’t a bevy of right wing Villager hacks looking for a sweet no effort required but showing up gig.
fka AWS
@Yatsuno: And lo, the LORD set forth these commandments, the first of which is this: “Honor the Narrative thy God, worship only it, and make your promises in its name alone.”
-Broderonomy 6:13.
Brian R.
I’m a little stunned, because I just saw that USA Today called bullshit on the “both sides do it” stupidity.
Given the importance of educating low-info voters, I think I’ll take a spot-on editorial from USA Today over a half dozen in more elite publications like the Washington Post.
Higgs Boson's Mate
Anyone else notice how much the arguments against Obamacare bear a startling resemblance to the arguments against same sex marriage?
Mandalay
@Kay:
Yes, that stumped me as well. And also when they crowed that the President was talking to Iran and Russia. but not to the Republicans, as as though that made them look good, and Obama look bad.
Not much self-awareness or reflection in the GOP strategy right now.
SiubhanDuinne
@WereBear: I watched it live. Loved the bit where he said, basically, look, when Apple has a glitch in its new rollout, nobody says “That’s it! Close it down!” They say, oh, okay, here’s a problem, lets fix it. It’s the American Way.*
*Paraphrasing like mad, but the gist is there.
JPL
@dmsilev: oh no.. Wasn’t that Boehner’s plan to get out of this mess? I’m sure he’ll have another plan though. If I can quote, Casey from Chuck, we’re screwed.
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL:
And just how sad is that? :-(
dmsilev
@dmsilev: And Scheme E goes down in flames. About 30 or so D defections, far less than the 60 that would have been needed for a 2/3s vote.
jl
@Ash Can: If there is a default, is a very good chance the House will impeach Obama no matter what he does. Even if he curls up into fetal position and sucks his thumb in the WH rose garden all day.
If the debt limit is not raised and Treasury has to suspend some payments, and Obama takes measures to get bills paid, there will be serious impeachment talk. If he does nothing, there will be serous impeachment talk.
gogol's wife
@Omnes Omnibus:
I keep looking for you since I found out we share an alma mater.
Davis X. Machina
@Keith G: He’s a recidivist.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@Roger Moore:
Hopefully you will go in the first wave so the rest of us can beat them without your pathetic whining.
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: Tom Price was the high school football team’s doctor. He made lots of fans among the school before he ran. His wife is on the city council and is trying to do more damage but that has been contained. We like our parks and services.
Villago Delenda Est
@jl:
And any such move to impeach is doomed to failure in any concrete, as they will never get a conviction. However, it will gum up the works for a year or so while all this bullshit goes down.
MikeJ
@Villago Delenda Est: Pity Reid can’t just say, “Voice vote. The Nays have it.”
Omnes Omnibus
@gogol’s wife: What years were you there? 82-86 for me.
Mandalay
@Brian R.:
TBF, the NY Times isn’t sitting on the fence:
SiubhanDuinne
@Amir Khalid:
I thought you were talking about Mars. Because NASA has shut down any further exploration by that adorbs little “Curiosity” rover and put it in a state of “protective sleep.”
Also, too, I saw on FB the following:
Voyager 2 sent a tweet shortly after midnight (earth time): “Due to government shutdown we will not be posting or responding from this account. Farewell, humans. Sort it out yourselves.”
The friend who retweeted that message adds that Voyager’s account has been suspended.
Ash Can
@jl: Judging from last night’s display, I’m sure they don’t trust him. But neither will they make a stand themselves, so it makes no difference. They’ll go right along with the immolation. They’ll be complaining about the heat and the smell of the gasoline all the way, but they won’t do jack to stop it.
Kay
@dmsilev:
Thanks. We still don’t know why anyone in a state where there’s a vulnerable Democrat in the Senate would find this particularly compelling, though. All I thought was “why wouldn’t they get subsidies?” Just seems unfair and arbitrary.
The whole thing’s a mystery to me, what’s shut down and what’s not. Sherrod Brown is coming out here on the 11th to meet with “supporters”. He usually visits every county but not specifically “supporters” so it’s a bit of a shift. I assumed that was off, but apparently it’s not included in “work” or something because he’s still coming as of today. I guess he can call it off at the last moment but he will have some cranky “supporters”.
Can you imagine the rules for shutdown? People are busily studying them right now :)
What a colossal waste of time and energy and money.
fuckwit
hahahah Lady Gaga Andy Samberg Justin Timberlake reference.
Villago Delenda Est
@Violet:
None at all. There are exactly TWO Rethugs with the courage of their convictions and voted against the teatards. The others voting against it are teatards complaining that it doesn’t go far enough.
The rest of the Rethugs are pathetic cowards, who should be allowed to die the death of a thousand cuts.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@jl:
Since the day Obama took the oath of office the question for me has been “When will the Republicans impeach him?” There is no foreseeable negative outcome from their doing so. Not only will they have microphones thrust under their noses by a a supine press, they’ll get to talk smack about Democrats in general and Obama in particular. They’ll also be able to accuse Obama of being “distracted.”
Snarla
Delay the individual mandate by one year? Don’t we already have a full six months to sign up?
RevRick
The Republican position is nullificationism, pure and simple. They are using threats of force to nullify a duly enacted law and the re-election of President Obama. Our Constitution is designed to handle all sorts of political shenanigans (hence checks and balances), but it can’t handle nullificationism.
The Republicans are like an ax murderer who bursts into your home, threatens to kill your whole family and when you protest counters that he’ll only kill half and when you again protest accuses you of refusing to negotiate.
dmsilev
Part 2 of Scheme E just exploded in a fireball.
I wait with morbid fascination to find out what Rube Goldberg approach Boehner and his “leadership” will come up with next to avoid sending a clean CR to the floor.
Amir Khalid
@SiubhanDuinne:
I mean Earth, of course. I’m just glad there are no ETs watching this.
dmsilev
@Kay:
‘Supporters’ sounds like it’s a campaign event, so not paid for by government money, so not impacted by this nonsense.
Villago Delenda Est
@Amir Khalid:
Tweet received from Vulcan: “This is highly illogical”
RareSanity
@Baud:
I usually only de-cloak and comment in tech/electronics or sports posts, but I had to make an exception here…that’s a pretty damn insightful comment!
(re-engages cloaking device)
dmsilev
CSPAN idiot of the month: “I don’t believe in getting sick”
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL: Oh, I know Tom and his wife very well. (Although I didn’t know he had been the team doctor.)
Don’t know that much about my own rep, Rob Woodall, except that his politics are more or less indistinguishable.
liberal
Just listened to PBS News Hour driving home. Stu Rothenberg decried the nasty rhetoric on both sides. Jesus, I hate f4cks like him more than the Rethuglicans. /rant
SiubhanDuinne
@dmsilev: A lot of my relatives were Christian Scientists, and I can’t imagine any of them saying something so stupid.
liberal
@Hill Dweller: Not only cowardly, but frankly a lot of these journo folks ain’t all that bright.
dmsilev
@SiubhanDuinne: What was worse is that she said she was a waitress and that her kids were on Medicaid, but that she didn’t believe in insurance for herself because, again, she didn’t believe in getting sick.
Oy.
Mandalay
@dmsilev:
I wonder if Boehner (like Reid?) is getting pretty close to the point where he genuinely doesn’t give a shit any more. Perhaps he’s just waiting for a few more defectors to quietly join King so that he can have a vote that the Dems win, and then he’ll step down.
He wouldn’t leave much of a legacy, but at least his parting shot would be having savagely fucked Cruz dry and hard up the ass. Which really isn’t that bad as a list of achievements.
Suffern ACE
@Mandalay: and yet they have a front page story about how republicans are acting out of their sense of moral duty while Claire McCaskill can’t figure out whom to blame.
dmsilev
And the third ‘Mini-CR’ goes glug-glug-glug and vanishes beneath the surface of the sea. I guess the GOP has some campaign soundbites for 2014 (“Rep Smith voted against Veterans and National Parks!”); hard to see what other point there was to this.
gene108
@Comrade Jake:
I don’t think he’ll last long at Fox. He’s far to milquetoast for that crowd. They like bomb throwers.
Right-wing media types understand that it is all fun and games to talk about drowning government in a bath tub, but when services to “real” Americans get thrown out along with the baby and the bathwater, those “real” Americans will vote Republicans out of office.
It happened in 2006 and 2008, when people got fed up with the GOP Congressional scandals, finally clued into the fact they were lied to about Iraq and decided to “send a message” to the Republicans.
The MSM really doesn’t have as much invested in Republican policy success as Republican media types, so they really don’t care if the GOP pisses off people by 2014 and triggers a backlash, so they can keep pushing the “both sides do it” narrative.
The problem for Democrats and more so for liberals is motivating people. All the negativity around politics and policy just turns a lot of would be voters off.
Chris
@Villago Delenda Est:
Tweeting is highly illogical.
/Vulcan
Suffern ACE
In the debt crises ahead I favor Lew capping retirement payments for social security at 1100 per month. Objections?
TAPX486
I agree that there are multiple sides, esp. among the GOP, but as long as the ‘reasonable’ republican go along wit the crazies then they arte equally guilty. That puts them on the same side as the crazies. There is an old saying that evil flourishes when good men remain silent. Well the ‘good’ people of the GOP are remaining silent. .
trnc
You know how you see a spoiled brat somewhere and you think, “That kid sucks, but since his parents are letting him get away with it and giving him ice cream to reward his appalling behavior, what do you expect”? Well, I’m almost starting to feel bad for the republicans who get rewarded for their worst behavior by a placating media.
But then I realize they aren’t kids and have all the resources they need to make correct decisions if they got their heads out of their asses.
fuckwit
First of all, this DOES fit the narrative: the Rethugs hate government, are petulant children, and are the party of shutdowns. They’ve done it twice now.
Secondly, I’m waiting till tomorrow to hit CoveredCalifornia after the rush has dissipated somewhat.
Thirdly, there is a precedent for how this all can go down: California. The Rethugs did the same kind of terrorist tactics here (remember the recall?) including saying NO to everything, cock-blocking anything, and shutting down the government IIRC. They are now a mere rump in the statehouse, and they have no power anymore. So if that’s what happens nationwide it’ll be a win for us, and our children, and their children.
Fourthly, there is some element of pantomime and theatre to all this: in addition to Cruz getting approval from Reid for his Dr. Seuss marathon, apparently the Rethugs DID manage yesterday to pass a law guaranteeing that the military will get paid in event of a shutdown, and Obama signed it. So there are at least some adults sneaking around in the House somewhere.
Finally, once low-information voters understand what’s going on– and that’s starting to happen now–, it’s game over for the Rethugs. They can get away with their shit only because they hide behind the obscurity of sausage-making, where only liberal wonks notice or care to pay attention to it. Once it gets out in the open, it gets stopped. Eventually. Unknown is how many people have to get hurt before that happens though.
Mnemosyne
@dmsilev:
I stopped being friends with someone like that, because she said — to my face — that my mother had died of cancer because my mother didn’t want to live. Because, you know, people only die because they don’t want it enough.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Suffern ACE:
And why would you advocate that? Capping SS payments at $1100/mo would mean that my monthly income drops a bit more than 12%. Cap your own income.
Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937
You want to see more than two sides but are ignoring reality. They all voted for this. All of them. Boener may have done something different if he thought he could. He can’t because they ALL voted for it.
Ash Can
@jl:
Absolutely. They’ve been dying for an excuse to impeach him, and they’d be ecstatic to finally get the opportunity. In fact, I’m thinking that now that the core wacko faction has seen that they can control Boehner and the entire rest of the caucus — easily! — they’ll stomp on the accelerator and gun the car straight over the debt-ceiling cliff with the sole purpose of setting up an impeachment. The rest of the world better brace itself, because it might be a pretty bumpy ride for a bit, at least until Obama steps in and acts the part of the American President (fuck you with a rusty John Deere rotary tiller, Newt Gingrich, you racist dickweed) and rescues the full faith and credit of the US single-handedly.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@fuckwit:
That only happened because of non-partisan redistricting. I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for that to happen anywhere else.
Felonius Monk
@Kay:
According to Politico (ugh – I won’t link) the e-mails have been released.
dmsilev
@Mnemosyne: Yikes. I don’t know what you can say to something like that. That’s either a ‘slap them in the face’ or a ‘walk away and never speak to them again’ moment, whichever you prefer.
I mean, even if you believe in New-Agey crap like that, at least have the bare minimum of social grace to keep it to yourself in such a moment.
maryQ
Saying that Boehner and Cruz think differently about the shutdown is like saying Walt and Uncle Jack think differently about wasting Hank and enslaving Jesse. It may be true, but Uncle Jack would have been no where near the folks Walt claims to care about if Walt had not previously found Uncle Jack’s viciousness expedient.
Felonius Monk
@Suffern ACE: I politely decline — in other words, up yours. :)
Ash Can
@Amir Khalid:
Hell, I’m not so sure there aren’t ETs participating in this. I mean, look at Michele Bachmann’s eyes, listen to Steve King talk. That shit ain’t natural.
TAPX486
@Ash Can: If we get to the last minute on the debt ceiling I hope Obama either authorizes the trillion dollar coin or uses the 14th amendment option. And then looking straight into the camera and say anyone who doesn’t like it then make my day. I’ll see you in the Supreme Court (I’m sure John Roberts will love that hot potato) or file your impeachment I dare you!!
MikeJ
@dmsilev:
You may not believe in cancer, but cancer believes in you.
fuckwit
@liberal: Oh yeah, that was my fifth point.
FEAR! FEAR!! FEAR AND TERROR is what is driving this “both sides do it” bullshit.
The media is terrified, TERRIFIED, of the Rush Limbaugh-inspired onslaught of angry phone calls to them– and to their advertisers. They live shaking in their boots of this force, of armies of retired angry white men and mobilized fundamentalists and other screaming people who have nothing else to do all day but call them up and write letters and threaten their advertisers with boycotts– if they even ATTEMPT to make an objective observation that the Rethugs are wrong.
This is ESPECIALLY true among PBS/NPR! They live in terror of some Senate hearing where Ted Cruz or some other dipshit attempts to cut off NPR’s funding. They HAVE to attempt to “both sides do it”– or else they will get unemployed.
The few times that the left has achieved victories, it’s been by EMULATING this activism, i.e. boycotts and letters and phone calls and emails and faxes. This happened during the Iraq war, and it happened more recently to get Glenn Beck off the air and to reduce Limbaugh’s advertiser base (after he attacked Sandra Fluke, for example).
The media is a bunch of cowards. They respond to pressure. Perhaps we should be calling and writing and telling them NO BOTH SIDES DO NOT FUCKING DO IT, it’s the Rethugs at fault, and you need to say that.
The more I look at politics, the more I see terror and fear as the single greatest causes of misery and dysfunction. Congresscritters afraid of losing their corporate campaign donations, or of their offices getting blasted with phone calls from teabaggers. Media afraid of losing advertising or getting blasted with phone calls. An elite that exists by keeping Americans terrified of losing their jobs because then we’d lose our medical insurnce and die (and equally terrified of no longer having that power over us thanks to Obamacare!).
Politics is power, and so much of power is fear and terror.
There’s just so much fear. We need to stop that, end that, remove that.
The opposite of fear, by the way, is hope.
MattR
@dmsilev: If it was a guy, this response would be appropriate.
(EDIT: That is the only time I can remember not flinching as I watched someone take a shot to the groin.)
dmsilev
@MattR: Just a yellow card for that? Tough crowd.
Roger Moore
@jl:
Except resigning. I don’t think they’d impeach him if he resigned, though I wouldn’t put anything past them.
gene108
@Suffern ACE:
SSA is the largest single holder of U.S. debt. If they told the Treasury to not pay them back and forgave Treasury we’d knock the debt down by a third overnight.
Some seniors would be homeless and have no money, but that’d solve the debt crisis in a hurry.
MattR
@dmsilev: Good ref. Understood the back story. Emre had “allegedly” called Zokora a racial slur in their last game and gotten away with a minimal penalty from the Turksih league despite having a history of making slurs. I am not sure that Zokora meant to get him in the nuts, but I think everyone on the pitch understood that he was gonna get one “free” shot at some point that game.
fuckwit
@Kay: The allegations about Rmoney’s taxes were not blind. It was Mormon inside baseball. Reid is a Mormon like Rmoney. Mormons are expected to tithe a fixed percentage (a flat tax!) of their income to the church. Reid does this diligently and always has. Mormons consider it very VERY not OK for someone to shirk on their tithing, especially not a rich man. Reid had some inside information that Romney had been doing just that, in a huge way, and his taxes would have shown that. That’s why he was, in his own words “a one-man wrecking crew” on the issue of Rmoney releasing his returns, and wouldn’t let it go. Mormons got the subtext even though Rmoney never released anything. Obama won Nevada (Reid’s state, with a substantial Mormon minority) handily
MattR
@Kay: Politco has those emails. between Boehner and Reid’s staffs.
Chris
@fuckwit:
You know, the truly fucked up thing about that is that all that shit happens anyway. The Rethugs and their drooling voters are already convinced that the non-Fox media is “liberal.” They already hold it in absolute contempt. They already refuse to get any news from it. And if they watch it at all, it’s only to get their daily dose of outrage, often leading to calling and bitching (you can’t tell me they’re not already getting plenty of angry calls every time they refuse to retell a story in exact word-for-word Fox News format).
What the hell do they have to lose by actually telling stories from a “liberal,” or heck, even just factual POV? What’re the Republicans going to do? Not-watch-them even more than they already do? Gee, there’s a threat. Fuck, they might even pick up viewership again as people driven away by the Fox News lite model come back.
PsiFighter37
Looks like all three of these piecemeal votes failed. What a bunch of fucking maroons – they’re like little kids who want to eat everything but the broccoli and string beans on their dinner plates.
I was busy at work today, but it doesn’t seem like I missed much – Republicans being their typical incompetent asshole selves. I will say – I am impressed by the hard line Nancy Smash is holding.
Brian R.
@Mandalay:
Ah, well good to see that too.
Still, USAT is a mainline to low info voters.
MattR
@MattR: Since FYWP won’t let me edit,
I know I should not be amazed by the things Republicans get worked up into a froth about, but I just don’t get this one. Congreemen and their staffers have been getting a federal subsidy for health insurance for decades but now it is all of a sudden a problem because it is insurance bought on a market exchange rather than through the FEHB
Chris T.
@Hill Dweller:
[Blonda Blondaughter]
“And in this shocking video, we see Tea Party leaders machine-gun people at apparently random. Bob Bobberts explains…”
[cut to Bob Bobberts]
“Well Blonda, as you know, it takes all of the Republicans plus a handful of Democrats to get anything done in the House. So it’s been a long and frustrating day, and Rep Murderson was just a little frustrated. Besides, Democratic representatives have been shot before, and that’s basically the same thing. Now back to you in the studio.”
jl
@PsiFighter37:
So, the House leadership couldn’t even get their brilliant Dr. Evil ‘put them Dems in a double bind’ plan K through… the House? Not one of them?
Yikes.
Hungry Joe
The shutdown could go on for some time simply because those imbecilic goons are having so damn much fun: “Look what we did! We stopped the government! We’re taking our country back! YAY US!”
Heady stuff, especially if you’re an idiot.
Keith G
@Davis X. Machina: I think you are wrong to tally notches. He is a comic whose schickt is using politics to serve humor, not using humor to support a political party.
There are segments on his show that I would have written differently, but they would have sucked even more than I thought they did. And besides, after years of watching him, it is clear that one side of the American political spectrum gets spanked by the Daily Show a great deal more than the other.
It seems to me that quite often the critiques about him I have read here are based on scant evidence and/or an allergy to dissonant communication. I watched coverage of the The Rally to Restore Sanity and I never saw that event as unjust as I have seen it portrayed here. As I wrote in an earlier thread today:
I guess the same might be said for comedians. Stewart talks about the rally and his process here.
The NYT wrote a review of the event that is an interesting read.
dogwood
@fuckwit:
I would be surprised if Romney failed to tithe properly, but you are right that Reid’s accusation was Mormon inside baseball. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Huntsman family with their considerable Mormon and big business connections weren’t feeding the information to Reid. Romney actually got a smaller percentage of the Mormon vote than John McCain. That’s nationally not just in Nevada.
jl
@MattR:
” I just don’t get this one. Congreemen and their staffers have been getting a federal subsidy for health insurance for decades but now it is all of a sudden a problem because it is insurance bought on a market exchange rather than through the FEHB ”
Need something simple and catchy that the average voter can follow. I guess that is the best they can do for now.
dmsilev
@jl: Nope. Another brainstorm from Senator Cruz, Super Genius that seems to have turned out to be more of a brainfart in practice.
Are we absolutely sure that Cruz isn’t a deep-cover Democratic mole?
PsiFighter37
@jl: Doesn’t look like it. They couldn’t offer it through regular order because the Dems would’ve recommitted the clean CR and either a) gotten it passed, or b) made the Republicans vote against in, after which no one could credibly say they were interested in funding the government at all.
I just can’t believe that these Congressional Fuckheads/GOPers don’t look at a 17% national approval rating – they’ve even lost some of their vaunted 27% base – and think this is still a good idea, unless their districts really are that gerrymandered.
I hope Steve Israel is on the phone scouting for Democratic challengers all over the country – heavily damage the GOP during this debacle, maybe even get them to splinter – and then crush them next year. It’s a stretch, but we’ve gotta take the chance if we want a meaningful last 2 years of Obama’s presidency.
jl
Maybe the House GOP could impeach Obama over this?
Mars Curiosity rover to continue operation despite federal government shutdown
http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/1/4792742/mars-curiosity-rover-to-continue-operation-despite-federal-government-shutdown
PsiFighter37
@dogwood: That’s surprising, because he ran up the score in Utah – was probably the main reason why Matheson nearly lost to Mia Love.
Suffern ACE
I’m actually glad that those special bills failed. I see know reason why national parks should be open and that includes precious veterans memorials/tourist destinations for middle class people coming to the capital on vacation.
Mandalay
David Gergen on CNN is saying that Obama is refusing to meet with Republicans because that will help Democrats take back the House in 2014. Not a word about the merits of the Republican demands.
Like Cole says, I loathe these people.
Suffern ACE
@PsiFighter37: and yet it’s 50/50 that the republicans will win both governors races next month. Until voters see the relationship between their own personal republicans and those generic congressional ones, I don’t really have any faith that this shut down will matter.
Kay
@dmsilev:
How many times have we been through this, though? They’re always incredibly smart when they first burst onto the scene.
Smartest Republican yet.
You’d think they wouldn’t sell it do hard right out of the gate.
The fact is they barely know these people :)
I’ve never even heard his voice. I’m avoiding him. Maybe he’ll be gone when I open my eyes.
PsiFighter37
@Mandalay: It’s a fucking game, dude. Everything to them is fucking Risk or Monopoly or Candyland.
At least one can’t dispute Gergen’s political analysis, since Bill Clinton (for whatever fucking stupid reason – probably the same reason he had Dick Morris on staff) hired him as an advisor back in the day.
MattR
@jl: I guess so. It is just that, unlike ‘death panels’, it is so easily debunked/refuted. The hard core will fall for it because they dont care about the truth, but the average “swing” voter has employer subsidized health insurance or knows numerous people who do so they will easily see through the bullshit (though they do probably need a nudge to make the connection that the subsidy the Republicans are complaining about is just an employer subsidy)
PsiFighter37
@Suffern ACE: With this, I can’t fathom a way Cooch actually wins. Democrats can hang this shit around the Tea Party’s neck (of which Cooch is most definitely a part of, with a special heaping of social conservative freaksauce) and run up the score in NoVa.
My only wish is that Dems had a better bench than Terry fucking MacAuliffe. I’ve met the man in person, and don’t get me wrong – he loves politics as much as you or I – but he’s no politician himself. But if he wins, along with the rest of the Democratic ticket (which I would put at better than 50-50, although someone from VA can correct me), then we have a starting point from there.
Kay
@dmsilev:
I missed Scott Brown’s entire national career. It went by so fast!
dmsilev
@MattR: When I was following the vote on CSPAN just now, there was a caller who insisted that (a) Death Panels were real, (b) they were coming for him and he was a good man who didn’t deserve to die and (c) President Obama was clearly lying when he denied the existence of said Death Panels.
Sigh.
Mandalay
@fuckwit:
There is a simpler and more plausible explanation:Reid knew that hell would freeze over before Romney would release his tax returns, so he could safely lie about Romney’s cheapskate tithing.
dmsilev
@Kay: Ah, Senator “I drive a truck” Centerfold. Was he ever touted as being smart, or was it just his supposed dreamy good looks that were supposed to catapult him to greatness?
Chris T.
@dmsilev: Personally, I don’t believe in gravity.
(Hey, it’s only a theory!)
jl
@Kay: You can still get some pin-ups.
/snark
Chris
@PsiFighter37:
As it is for our elites in general, which explains most of their behavior. No matter how good or bad the country gets, nothing’s ever going to put a cramp in their lifestyle, not really. Once you factor that in, all of their behavior makes sense.
PsiFighter37
@dmsilev: Everything Sarah Palin says is the truth, how dare you mock her facts!
Speaking of Sarah Palin, I was in Alaska this summer and drove through Wasilla. Looks pretty much like what I would imagine your typical suburb to be, except seaplanes take off from the pond in the middle of town.
fuckwit
@jl: There’s a narrative out there in wingnut-land that every employee of the federal government– particularly those liberals– is enitled and corrupt, living off the hard working taxes of the job creators, sitting with their feet up getting Cadillac medical care and not working for their money. Of course– Rethug projection again!– the people doing all those things are the Rethug representatives themselves, who get paid $174K/year and don’t actually believe they have to do any fucking work other than dialing up their campaign donors to solicit more bribes, er, campaign donations, lying, going on MTP, and blowing up the government.
So their anti-medical-care-subsidies narrative is projection writ large, and it’s a narrative designed mostly to fire up their hate-the-government base.
gene108
@Suffern ACE:
Unless Christie gets a heart attack and dies, he’s going to win. The question is will the margin be large enough to make him a serious candidate for the 2016 Presidential election.
Also, too NJ Congressional Republicans know better than to open their big mouths. They just quietly vote along with the rest of the House GOP, but don’t say or do anything explicitly crazy or overtly sympathetic to the Southern Confederates, who run the party and thus are not associated with those troglodytes.
Roger Moore
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
I don’t think so. The Republicans were going to lose seats after redistricting unless they had complete control over the process. Given that the Democrats had large majorities in both houses of the legislature and a strong incentive to get to a 2/3 majority in each house, the Republicans were probably better off with non-partisan redistricting. That’s why they proposed the non-partisan redistricting commission in the first place; they were afraid of how bad they’d lose if the Democrats took advantage of the chance to gerrymander aggressively.
PsiFighter37
@gene108: Chris Christie has a big ego, but I think he’d be satisfied with being king of New Jersey than running for president (or helicoptering around the Iowa State Fair?). And to be honest – I think Jerseyans are smart enough to know the difference between state and federal – I don’t think they’d vote for him either as president or for the Senate (if he ever decided to challenge Menendez).
Redshirt
@PsiFighter37: I just went to a state fair. There was a lot of shit. It was wonderful.
the Conster
@Amir Khalid:
We are all Banana Republicans now.
the Conster
@PsiFighter37:
They were releasing us hostages one by one. Old teatard vets got to go first.
Redshirt
@the Conster: I escaped via The Gap.
Punchy
TPM up with a report that says the House will bring these same failed bills tomorry for a vote needing only a majority. If at first you dont succeed, change the rules to make it easier and try again….
Brian R.
@PsiFighter37:
Exactly.
Brian R.
@PsiFighter37:
I live in New Jersey and, trust me, there’s no way Christie gets this state’s votes for president.
But it’s a moot point, because there’s even less of a chance he gets through the primaries and gets the nomination.
PopeRatzo
Somebody said that this carve-out for congress people and their staff was a “poison pill” that Republicans forced into Obamacare.
Can someone give me details about that? Which Republicans? When did it happen? What were the circumstances?
I hear that the new tack the GOP is going to take is going after these waivers or special subsidies or whatever, saying they “not fair” and I want to be ready with some good information. I’ve heard GOP congressfucks doing the rounds of radio beating this drum – three in the last few hours.
Southern Beale
Healthcare, Republican style.
PsiFighter37
@Punchy: Can’t we just bring up the clean CR if they do that? Or are House rules being changed overnight, in typical GOP Calvinball style?
Punchy
@PsiFighter37: TPM says (and no idea is theyre FOS) Dems coulda brought up a cleany tonite if theyda gone all simple maj (they went 2/3rds, insteada the 3/5ths I figured theyd use). Article made it seem like reg rules apply tomorry and Dems cant serve a cleany, for reasons nev mentioned.
Scott Alloway
@dmsilev: If Democrats understood imagery, there would have been a Democratic senator there saying, “Mr. Boehner. Tear down this wall.”
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Omnes Omnibus: Says you, Nuno!
Suzanne
@fuckwit: I surmised the same thing. Some of my friends have had family members lose their Temple Recommends or been excommunicated for failing to tithe. Plus, the LDS Church got all that bad publicity for the City Creek mall project w/r/t spending money foolishly, so I bet the press would have been horrible.
Do you have any links about the tithing angle? I just always had a gut feeling that he was shafting the Church but never had any proof.
Bill Arnold
@Manyakitty:
It’s bizarre, like these people have no clue what comes out of their mouth. If the Republicans want to be serious about negotiation, maybe they could start with a proposal for the following actual compromise:
(1) One year delay in Obamacare
in trade for
(2) Permanent repeal of the debt ceiling law
(3) Funding the government at pre-sequester levels through 2014
At least it would be a proposal. With a couple dozen spoonfuls of additional sweeteners, Obama might consider biting. Probably not, since universal health care is a pretty important, but at least it would be something to talk about.
Omnes Omnibus
@Uncle Ebeneezer: Is Nuno a ballgame? No. My point stands.
PsiFighter37
@Bill Arnold: Fuck no, I would only trade a 1-year delay for Obamacare for something big – like cap and trade or something equivalent.
Elections have fucking consequences, no more try to kick the can down the road.
Manyakitty
@SiubhanDuinne: Wow. Marketplace, too? That show used to be reasonable. Gubmint radio, my foot.
Manyakitty
@gene108:
If they worked harder, they’d deserve the money and shelter, right?
Berial
The way the Republicans are talking and acting about this shutdown amazes me. They are acting like wife batterers. (I am not saying they are wife batterers, but that their attitude and responses are like them.)
Batterer: Why do you keep making me hit you!
Batterer: This is your fault! You’re making me do this!
Batterer: Don’t you know I love you!
Republican: Why do you keep making me shut down the government!
Republican: This is their fault! They’re making us do this!
Republican: Don’t you know I love my country!
And the media seems to just grin and nod as they say these things.
Manyakitty
@Berial: I believe some people call that “Stockholm Syndrome.”