Third Way is afraid of left populism for same reason RW is afraid of ACA: not because they're sure it will fail, but cuz think it might work
— billmon (@billmon1) December 9, 2013
.
I’m liking this new “economic populism” talk. Alex Pareene on “Why Elizabeth Warren baffles pundits“:
… Most pundits writing about “Warren versus Clinton” are answering the wrong question, because of the political media’s fixation on national elections and presidents. But the “economic populism” fight isn’t about Hillary Clinton and 2016. It’s about the entire Democratic Party and every policy fight and campaign it will be involved in in the foreseeable future.
It’s certainly easier to discuss intra-party disagreements about policy and strategy in terms of big clashing personalities, but the people and organizations championing left-wing economic policy and strict financial regulation, from Demos to the Center for Economic and Policy Research, aren’t part of a shadow Warren campaign, they’re part of a campaign to drag Democrats away from the pro-rich Washington consensus… The point of “economic populism” is to fix the Democratic Party at every level.
That’s what explains the backlash, which has been growing… They’re not afraid that Warren will run for president, they’re afraid that she’ll be so popular that other senators will start acting like her. They’re worried that she’ll have money to direct to candidates who share her views. They’re worried that Warren might embarrass Democrats into passing stricter bank regulations. They’re worried that finance’s iron grip on the Democratic Party might weaken. The impetus for writing the editorial was Third Way’s realization that Warren was sabotaging the decades-long project that turned cutting Social Security into a bipartisan goal. A lot of money and time was spent encouraging elite consensus around “entitlement reform,” and suddenly a bunch of senators are talking about making the program more generous. That, of course, is a wildly popular idea, judging by all polling conducted on the subject, but the anti-populism backlash relies on reinforcing the common Washington idea that it is brave to oppose policies most people want and would benefit from. The bankers and CEOs who back Third Way understand that their policy preferences have won out in the Democratic Party in spite of popular opinion…
My emphases. Dave Weigel explains the cynics’ point of view:
… All of this, according to the New York Times, was “a sign of the left’s new aggressiveness.”
It was. For bonus points, it was a lesson in how easy it can be to draw the media, bankers, pundits, and activists into a “war,” as long as you’ve a got a working Internet connection and a strong hook. Both of the ideas at the heart of this fight—corporate influence over think tanks, expanding Social Security—had been litigated for years, well before Warren got to the Senate. This time, a small number of progressives just took advantage of the media’s bias toward big personalities, and its obsession with presidential politics, to change what the media covered….
The left’s enemies responded as predictably as Godzilla swatting at Mothra…
“That Social Security plan had been out there but really languishing,” column co-author Jim Kessler would later tell a radio host. “Because Sen. Warren has such a powerful compelling voice, she started talking about it, and it suddenly it became much more talked about and viable alternative.”…
That advanced the story. So did Warren’s open letter to five banks asking them to disclose their donations to Washington think tanks. Politico gave anonymity to a “senior D.C. Republican,” who argued that the “normally savvy” senator had blown it, and that her “ ‘give me the names’ edict sounds uncomfortably like the kind of demand that Joe McCarthy would have made in the 1950s.” It was just the sort of stuck-pig squeal that Warren’s allies expect from the bankers and their defenders. They couldn’t have scripted it—but they sort of did script it…
I say good for Senator Warren, and for all the wild-eyed DFHs who support shifting the Overton Window in the correct direction for a change!
schrodinger's cat
Who is Overton, anyway? A predecessor of Bill Gates?
Anne Laurie
@schrodinger’s cat: Per Wikipedia:
catclub
Another cynic’s point of view is that the political donor class ( up till now, at least) is dominated by the people who have no problem with cutting SS. If Warren, and more importantly OTHERS, can get funding outside that class – perhaps through the intarwebs, then that hold on Democrats populist urges will be released. This is a change from the Rahm Emmanuel and Bill Clinton type of democrat, seemes to me. Also Schumer.
max
‘Politico! Tomorrow’s Unmitigated Horseshit Today!’
max
[‘Joe McCarthy was *totally* trying to increase the size of social security payments, and that was Republican party policy and that was all bad because McCarthy was bad, so the new Republican policy is to make sure as to not unduly burden and oppress grandma’s right of free speech with overly generous social security payments…yeah!’]
TaMara (BHF)
I lost my cat Harley this week after many vet visits and many misdiagnoses. I feel guilty and lost. And the other cats are wandering around the house yowling for their friend. Heartbreak, the price of love.
catclub
“They’re worried that finance’s iron grip on the Democratic Party might weaken”
Also this. Important if senate candidates can find funding outside of the moneycenters.
schrodinger's cat
@TaMara (BHF): {{{TaMara}}}, he was a beautiful boy. RIP Harley.
Poopyman
@TaMara (BHF): Such a pretty boy. I’m sorry for your loss, TaMara.
KG
@max: are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party? Are you now or have you ever advocated for the overthrow of the US government?
Please identify the political action committees and think tanks to whom you have made donations.
Totally the same thing! See: both sides do it!
satby
@TaMara (BHF): yes it is. So sorry TaMara.
Jay C
@TaMara (BHF):
So sad, TaMara: condolences on the loss of such a beautiful friend. And not being able to “explain” to the others must make it even harder….
billB
You Go Lizzie, finally a figure of intelligence and courage we can rally around! [looking at you sell-outs clintobama] Now we get my youngest Senator, Mr. Merkley on-board, and we got a movement. If we all give twenty bucks now and then, we don’t need the blood-sucking scum on wally-street!
MomSense
@TaMara (BHF):
Oh, sweet Harley. I’m so sorry, TaMara.
Omnes Omnibus
@billB:
Until her first logrolling compromise in order to move a bill forward. There are no perfect politicians. There is no savior. If you are looking for one, prepare to spend your life being disappointed.
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
Warren seems to be making all the right people whine.
I like it.
Ash Can
@TaMara (BHF): Such a pretty kitty. Sincerest condolences on your loss. And this —
— is not the mark of a pet owner who should feel guilty. You obviously tried hard and did right by Harley. Sometimes life is just unfair.
The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
@TaMara (BHF): Love and time are incompatible.
eemom
@TaMara (BHF):
I’m sorry, and right there with you….I lost one of my doggies three weeks ago Wednesday after a sudden, baffling decline.
And our other doggie has not been the same since.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
Dear Ohio State Fans,
I’m writing in regards to one of your customs that I observed while attending a women’s hockey game between your Buckeyes and the University of Minnesota. Each time that the PA system announces that there is one minute left in the period, you respond by yelling, “Michigan still sucks.”
I’m sure that you all think that this makes you look clever but it really doesn’t. Since the University of Michigan was not involved in this contest and, in fact, does not even have a women’s ice hockey team, it makes you look obsessed and more than a little unstable. You come off like that deranged ex-boyfriend that just can’t stop ranting to his friends about the girl that dumped hm. To switch genders, you sound like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.
I hate to break it to you, but Michigan just isn’t that into you. I grew up in Ann Arbor so I can assure you that not only do the people there not spend time yelling, “Ohio State still sucks,” at random strangers, you aren’t even the foe most likely to inspire such shenanigans were they to collectively lose their sanity. You’re just a fling they have every football season. Their real significant other when it comes to rivalry lives up in East Lansing.
So my advice would be to get some counseling and try to work past this hang up you have with someone who doesn’t return your affections. Maybe try to find a new rival, one to whom you mean enough that they will reciprocate at whatever level of intensity you find that you need. Penn State hasn’t really had a committed relationship since they stopped dating Pitt regularly, so you could try them.
I just think you’d be happier, and probably scare the neighbors a little less, if you could move past this infatuation with someone clearly moving in a different direction.
Thinking of you,
Michael
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@TaMara (BHF): He was a gorgeous cat.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Were any of them wearing “Ann Arbor is a whore” shirts?
Chris
As with some of Obama’s statements (or heck, even OWS), the amazing thing about Warren is how very far from the wild-eyed DFH model she is (which is part of why she has them in freak mode, I suppose). She’s not advocating the dictatorship of the proletariat. She’s not advocating the expropriation of the capitalist class. She’s not calling for the replacement of corporations with anarcho-syndicalist communes. She’s saying, very simply, that if America has been as obscenely good to you as it has to these fucking people, it’s not a crime against humanity for you to have higher tax rates than the poor SOB killing himself in one of your minimum wage no-unions no-benefits jobs.
This is what passes for the left-wing fringe of American politics in 2013. In the days of Eisenhower and Kennedy, her manifesto would’ve been charmingly centrist, and in the days of Roosevelt and Truman, way out of its element. Yes, I agree; it’s way past time to move the Overton Window back to the left.
Steeplejack
@TaMara (BHF):
So sad. My condolences to you. Just gave the housecat a scritch in your honor.
Dead Ernest
@TaMara (BHF):
Hugs Dear TaMara. You are so right, that is the price – and hard as it is, it is always worth it. Hoping that in the days ahead, sorrow is sweetened by all you have to cherish.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Omnes Omnibus: No, but I thought they were the most obnoxious fans in the WCHA. The whining about the officiating (admittedly bad, but bad both ways) was relentless and several of them razzed Sarah Davis when she stayed down for a couple of minutes after being on the receiving end of possibly the most vicious check from behind I’ve seen in the women’s game; they spent the rest of the game chanting “Davis the Diver” whenever she touched the puck.
So it was nice to see her pot two goals in that game.
Omnes Omnibus
@Chris:
And this is what is getting labeled as socialism by the right. Dumb move on their part.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): I mentioned on a weekend thread that having lived in Columbus for a number of years, I could really understand why people can’t stand Ohio State. What you describe is par for the course.
Jebediah, RBG
@TaMara (BHF):
So sorry to hear that. As has already been said, you tried and have nothing to feel guilty about. Still sucks and hurts but you didn’t do anything wrong. The others won’t be themselves for a while – Otto mourned Daisy, Juno mourned Otto, but they did eventually come out of it.
Don’t feel guilty. You loved your kitty and he knew it.
ETA: And yes he is quite a gorgeous cat.
Dead Ernest
@Omnes Omnibus:
So Omnes, your saying ‘All Love Ends Unhappily’ ? … … shucks.
::head droops. shuffles off into sunset, away from the rally. sniffs. wipes nose on sleeve::
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
Gandhi?
? Martin
@Cervantes: Worst bully pulpeteer ever.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s also really easy to see why people don’t like Michigan folks, but it’s for different reasons. Michigan fans are insufferably arrogant; with OSU fans, you worry that they’re going to beat you up.
Q: How many Michigan alumni does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: Only one and, boy, does that make them feel superior to the rest of us.
Mandalay
@Chris:
Amen. Here is a deceptively clever question that was posed to Democrats running for president in 2007:
I wonder if Clinton and Edwards (who really was the champion of the poor for a while) ever understood how badly they answered that revealing question with their dismissive one word responses.
khead
@TaMara (BHF):
Sorry for your loss. Beautiful kitty.
Mike in NC
We will never be rid of the Village Idiots, still wired for Republican rule.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dead Ernest: Nope. I take a positive view of it. More like “Fuck you, Jobu, I do it myself.“
Mike in NC
@TaMara (BHF): Condolences. Never an easy thing to deal with.
joel hanes
@catclub:
Important if senate candidates can find funding outside of the moneycenters.
which is why ALL my own political donations go through Act Blue, to Act Blue-endorsed candidates,
and why NONE of my political donations go to the DNC or other avatars of the national Party
(where they’d be disbursed preferentially to conservative or corrupt candidates who work to defeat my political goals, but have a D after their name, at least this year)
Fuck Steny Hoyer, Steve Israel, Debbie Whassername-Shulz, and their ilk.
Jose Arcadio Buendia
@catclub: let’s not forget there are interests on the left interested in getting priority over economic issues.
Jebediah, RBG
@eemom:
And very sorry for your loss, too. If your dog is anything like mine have been, it will take a little bit longer for him to start feeling normal again.
Losing a pet always sucks but “sudden, baffling decline” sounds particularly shitty.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): For a while when I lived in Columbus, I had a crappy old car that I couldn’t afford to replace. I often thought about parking it on campus during OSU-Michigan weekend with “Go Blue” painted on the windows and then using the insurance payout after it got torched as a down payment on something better. Unfortunately, my qualms about insurance fraud stopped me.
StringOnAStick
@TaMara (BHF): Such a beautiful boy; so sorry for you and the rest of your cat friends.
Omnes Omnibus
@TaMara (BHF): @eemom: My condolences. I can still get misty over a dog who died 28 years ago. The little dudes are family.
Omnes Omnibus
Crap. I just found a spider. Normally, I just catch them and release them outside. It’s 0 degrees here; the spider would die. Now what do I do?
ETA: It has climbed up high enough that I think I will just ignore it.
TaMara (BHF)
Thanks everyone. Shared grief does help. I’m going to bed and try not to think about the kitty who won’t be there in the morning to wake me up with face pats.
@eemom: So sorry. It just sucks doesn’t it…
Dead Ernest
@Omnes Omnibus:
Had to watch it in order to be reminded where the line comes from.
Well, I guess self-love has its advantages, and there is something necessarily self-diminishing that occurs whenever we have ‘Heroes’ …
…watching the clip; I guess I thought you were just a little shorter IRL.
eemom
@Jebediah, RBG:
@Omnes Omnibus:
@TaMara (BHF):
Thanks. I’ve been through this before, as well, and still miss my other doggies who died in 2002 and 2005. It seemed to hit me me harder this time, maybe because it happened so suddenly…..or maybe cuz I’m OLD myself now, who knows.
Just a lot of reflections about how these sweet, simple creatures who never utter a word can be so uniquely, irreplaceably dear…..and a WTF for God, as to why he made their lives so short.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dead Ernest: Quite a bit shorter and quite a bit paler.
The big thing is that, as long as people are waiting for the savior to come along, they won’t do a thing for themselves. Warren isn’t going to save us. OTOH, if we get a bunch of people like her elected, we can save ourselves. And Warren will compromise on something at some point and then she will be seen as a sellout. I won’t see it that way, because my expectations of her are that she be good overall, not perfect on everything. I can’t meet that standard; is fair for me to expect it of others?
Dead Ernest
@Omnes Omnibus:
Creepy crawly
Creepy crawly
Creepy creepy crawly crawly
KG
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): I’ve often found that this is common in rivalries. One side always cares just a bit more than the other.
Higgs Boson's Mate
No single person is going to save us. No single person is going to move the Overton window one millimeter back toward something like the middle. If Warren’s actions simply stop the creep of that window to the right then she will, in my eyes, be a huge success.
TaMara (BHF)
I lied. I had to find some of my favorite photos of Harley and now I’m going to bed.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dead Ernest: Oh I can see it. I just am using the need to get a small step ladder or chair to get the fucker as an excuse not to do anything.
rda909
No two people have pushed “Third Way” policies into the Democratic Party more consistently and aggressively than…wait for it – Bill and Hillary Clinton. Doing so has seemed to be their entire reason for being in politics, and they’ve never been shy in promoting “Third Way” ideas through their DLC.
That’s why it’s always amazed me to see so many so-called progressives never-ending quest to anoint Hillary into the Democratic nomination, as they did for the 2008 election and as they are doing now for 2016. These Third Way-ers such as Hillary Clinton must be stopped, just as President Obama was able to do. Senator Warren would be the perfect person to stop them again in their attempt to take over the Democratic Party once again.
Dead Ernest
@Omnes Omnibus:
Wishing both you and Boris a warm and cozy night.
Cheers.
FlipYrWhig
@eemom: @TaMara (BHF): So sorry for the sad pet news. We lost the second of two almost a whole year ago and it’s still a bit raw emotionally…
Omnes Omnibus
@rda909: They were Third Wayers in the 90s. Bill got elected and was better than any GOPer would have been. What has HRC done to be considered a Third Wayer during this century? And, just in case, I am not a PUMA or Hillary fan-boi. I would have voted for her if she got the nomination in 2008. I would vote for her if she gets the nom in 2016. But that is it.
Elizabelle
Also too.
Charles Lane tells us Economic inequality might be a tough sell for Obama and the Democrats.
And when is that cat ever right?
From Fred Hiatt’s ship o fools at the Bezos Washington Post.
CaseyL
@TaMara (BHF): He was a gorgeous fellow. I’m so sorry for your loss.
@eemom: That’s hard. I don’t know what’s worse, losing a beloved animal after many years together to old age, or having the end come so fast and unexpectedly you don’t have much chance to fight it.
It hits differently, I think, when you’re getting old yourself.
I’ve been devastated by the loss of every kitty. My two current cats are young enough that I should (knock wood; please FSM) still have nearly ten years with them both.
But if they do last that long, when they’ve died I’ll be old enough to wonder if I should adopt again. The idea of giving up cats due to worries about dying before they do, or becoming too infirm to take care of them, is really unsettling, and saddening.
Elizabelle
@TaMara (BHF):
Very sorry. Harley was a beautiful cat. Looks like “winter” from a calendar.
KG
@rda909:
Their entire reason for being in politics was/is their own ambition. Third Way or triangulation was/is a means to fulfill their ambition. If Hillary thinks she can become president with liberal populism, she will be on it faster than an F1 driver on the straightaway
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: Christ, what an asshole. He handled Steven Glass rather well at TNR and got a very sympathetic portrayal by Peter Sarsgaard. After that, he seems to have been a consistent tool.
gwangung
@rda909:
This is wrong.
Voters ELECTING people LIKE Warren in multiple areas are the perfect people to stop the takeover of the Democractic Party.
This is what’s wrong with progressives…expecting OTHER people to do the work THEY should be doing. Changing the character of the Democratic Party is the work of THOUSANDS of people….who take over the machinery of the Party from precinct captains on up.
And you can’t center your hopes in one person; you center them in dozens of people. Because that’s a LOT harder to stop. And while one person may disappoint you, several of them, as a whole, won’t.
Omnes Omnibus
@gwangung: Some people just keep looking for a perfect savior.
gwangung
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s fundamentally lazy.
Sorry if I’m abrasive, but if the “Third Wavers” have such control of the party, lots of individuals are going to bust their balls to take it back. The Third Wavers sure as hell worked hard to do. So you’re going to work just as hard to take it back.
Yatsuno
@TaMara (BHF): :: hug ::
rda909
@Omnes Omnibus: Uh, Hillary was the Chairperson on a DLC board for years while she was a Senator and while she was running for 2008…she had one of the most “centrist” voting records in the Senate every year she was there, trailing close behind John Edwards who was the most DLC-friendly Senator (was always so funny watching the DailyKos Edwards fan clubs try to ignore that one)…oh and there’s a bunch of video like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KsHxlN30R0
I could go on and on, but hopefully you understand now that Hillary isn’t just a Third Way-friendly candidate…she’s one of the leaders of the movement to this very day. And why would Rupert Murdoch hold fundraisers for Hillary anyway?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/61faabde-deb8-11da-acee-0000779e2340.html#axzz2n35IQtce
He certainly never will for President Obama or Senator Elizabeth Warren even if they were New York Senators. Why this difference?
Another Holocene Human
@TaMara (BHF): Beautiful.
Omnes Omnibus
@gwangung: Read my comments upthread.
Anne Laurie
@TaMara (BHF): “Heartbreak, the price of love” indeed. Harley was a gorgeous boy, and I’m sure his absence leaves a large hole in your household. Darn those little predators, who are so good at hiding their illnesses — darn the Fates who make their brief lives out of all proportion to the love they inspire!
rda909
@gwangung: Um, yea. I get that. I’m very active in my OFA chapter and have been in local politics for decades. My point was that chances are much higher when you have a populist candidate to inspire the masses to do the necessary work in the neighborhoods, as Barack Obama was able to do. I feel Elizabeth Warren has the qualities to do a similar thing and get maximum effort from those people in the political trenches. I just hope she decides to run, regardless of what she’s been saying so far.
Another Holocene Human
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s like cheap born-again salvation–say the magic words: “Hey, I’m a true progressive,drones,Obama is a DINO, capitalism is in its last days,wheredaradicalwomenat?” and you can forever after sit on your ass at Party meetings bitching about the sellouts and disappointments, and sneering at voters. No effort, no good works, no empathy required.
Another Holocene Human
Also, true anecdata: a former (and I do mean former) organizer for AFL-CIO once pulled me aside at a social gathering and asked me, as if it were the 60s and we were discussing ho-mo-sexuals, what I thought about capitalism and its future.
His friends later divulged that he talked a great game on facebook about the revolution but was shit about doing the dishes, too.
Anne Laurie
@gwangung:
Hear, hear!
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Holocene Human: Yep, and it has started to really piss me off. I mean, do the fucking work. What is funny is that Warren is doing the fucking work. I say be more like her than rely upon her.
jefft452
@Omnes Omnibus: “They were Third Wayers in the 90s … What has HRC done to be considered a Third Wayer during this century?”
Yes, agreed
Also see Terry McAuliffe – Clintonite, New Democrat, FOB, Blue Dog – Running in a southern State …
Ran a campaign on expanding Medicare – and supporting abortion rights and gun control, while opposing off shore drilling and coal fired plants
It aint 1990 no more, and nobody who has a prayer of getting the 2012 nomination is afraid of seeing McGovern’s shadow any more
gwangung
@rda909: Granted. But the nature of voter psychology is to focus on the politician as an individual. If she runs, voters will focus their energy JUST ON HER, and not necessarily in a broad-based way. It’s a top-down strategy that can be frustrated by focussing on the single candidate/politician.
And, voters are lazy. As we’ve seen with Obama, progressives have offloaded their responsibilities on him and expected him to solve all the problems (when in many very real ways, the pressure is on the lower level Reps, Senators and state elected officials. The most glaring single example of this is Guantanemo).
rda909
@Anne Laurie: Yes, exactly as us Obamabots did in 2007-2008 to wrestle control of the party back from DLC Democrats such as the Clintons. Note: The DLC in name doesn’t even exist anymore. It had a slow 3-year death march after we spanked them and put an end to their 25 year reign of error over the Democratic Party, led by Bill and Hillary Clinton. These people cannot get back the power of the party again…Terry MacAuliffe showing his mug again is bad enough…no more.
gwangung
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, yeah….I sorta cribbed them…..
Omnes Omnibus
@rda909: Warren isn’t your savior. Deal with it.
gwangung
@jefft452: I’m going to suggest that politicians are subject to operant conditioning and training. Just like pets. Reward the good behavior, punish the bad….but they have to be at the appropriate level.
I’ll further suggest that politicians are more amenable to training than most people thing (they have to be, if most of them don’t hear from their constituents that often).
rda909
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s likely that few here have spent as much time as I have going door-to-door for candidates and other grassroots organizing in the field, so not sure why you persist on your “savior” talk regarding me. I have a preferred candidate in Senator Warren right now. I’m trying to encourage her to run and develop support for her in any way I can. There’s something wrong with this? Yes, that’s rhetorical and this is clearly going nowhere fast. Toodle-oo!
Omnes Omnibus
@gwangung: Good point. I think a lot of Dems in office would be willing to vote for very good legislation if they though they wouldn’t be punished for it.
? Martin
@Omnes Omnibus:
Her campaign team in 2008. Mark Penn being the tip of that particular spear. She started off with a classic DLC style campaign approach – mostly campaign by air by way of money. It wasn’t notably progressive. Obama’s wasn’t really either. It was Edwards that pulled both of them to the left, and it was Obama shellacking the presumed candidate in Iowa through a real grassroots campaign effort that woke everyone the hell up. Clinton should have owned Iowa. She blew it. Obama won every caucus in 2008. He was the populist, if not always in word, then in action. Clinton brought the whales in, and Obama out raised her $50 at a time. In the end, though, the voters mattered a lot more that year because of that close fight, so Obama needed Clinton to achieve that.
Now, I don’t intend to belabor that point too much. Hillary lost that fight, and I give her the benefit of the doubt that she learned the lesson since, but she didn’t enter 2008 as a populist and she wasn’t positioned well for the eventual economic turmoil that would come later in the year. The Senator from New York wasn’t going to take on Wall Street even when Wall Street was fucking everyone.
KG
@gwangung:
No, voters have lives and the expectation that they’ve elected adults who would act accordingly to deal with governing while they, the voters, go about their daily lives
Chris
@rda909:
My impression of the DLC/Third Way types is that they’ve basically been to us what the Eisenhower types were to Republicans fifty years ago: necessary for a while to compete at the national level in the face of the other party’s electoral juggernaut, but never really taking root in the party base. Not a surprise that so many people were ready to see them go.
gwangung
@rda909:
Well, I can see two things wrong:
A) It confuses the agenda with the candidate.
B) It’s incomplete. You need not only the candidate but votes in the houses to support the candidate. And they need to be solid, and not easily buffaloed by minority cranks like the Tea Party. Taht’s why they need to be trained and constantly encouraged when they’re doing the right thing.
Omnes Omnibus
@rda909: Without intending to be condescending, your comments here have led me to think that you are looking for the perfect candidate. The One. I think that such a person does not exist. If I have misinterpreted your comments, I apologize.
Also, I think Warren is in a perfect place right now. The presidency is important, but it isn’t everything. Let Warren stay in a role for which she is perfectly suited.
gwangung
@KG: Good point.
On the other hand, if all they hear from are the cranks and Tea Party types that criticize every move they make, they WILL take that into account.
KG
@Omnes Omnibus: wait, The One isn’t real? Are you suggesting Morpheus lied?
Shit… Should have taken the blue pill
Omnes Omnibus
@KG: Well, there is no spoon.
gwangung
@Omnes Omnibus:
A somewhat different question: Is it more important to have a Warren in the Presidency? Or have multiple Warrens in Congress?
KG
@Omnes Omnibus: only because Republicans filibustered the spoon
Omnes Omnibus
@gwangung: Multiple Warrens in Congress. An Obama or a HRC would sign legislation coming from such a Congress without a qualm. Getting that legislation to the Oval Office is the problem.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
Two things:
1). “Michigan still sucks!” is just plain unoriginal. It’s an obvious appropriation of Packers fans’, “The Bears still suck!”
2). Keep telling yourself that MSU is Michigan’s chief rival. It just isn’t true. I’m sorry that State can’t find a rivalry on par with Michigan’s rivalry with Ohio State, but I’m sorry that there isn’t really any rivalry like that (with the possible exception of Alabama-Auburn) anywhere in the country. That’s just the way it is, though.
I’ll add that I thought all the kvetching from the Michigan side about Notre Dame pulling out of that football-rivalry-that-wasn’t-really-a-rivalry was much ado about nothing, too.
Omnes Omnibus
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
That one is axiomatic.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Omnes Omnibus:
It is. We could just as easily add “The Queens still suck!”, too, because, ya know, ’tis true.
Omnes Omnibus
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): True is true.
Phil Perspective
@? Martin: Slick Willie had Robert Rubin around way too much. And who often visits the White House now? Robert Rubin. Who did President Obama hire as his first TreasSec? A Rubin tool boy. Also, he re-nominated a Puke for the Fed(Bernanke). Stiglitz couldn’t have done any worse than Benny. The first thing any candidate that wants my vote in ’16 will have to do is disavow Rubin and his lackeys.
Omnes Omnibus
@Phil Perspective: Okay. Let’s say your choice is a GOPer or someone who is Rubin friendly?
? Martin
@Phil Perspective: Right. I would also feel better with any sort of denouncement/apology for the financial ‘reforms’ that took place under Clinton’s watch from either Clinton. I’m not aware of one.
This doesn’t necessarily preclude me from supporting her in 2016, but I’m going to keep my options open. HRC has taken a bit more of a populist approach of late, but I’m not sure that isn’t just a finger in the wind at this point.
GregB
Someone needs to get Secretary Clinton’s ear early on and tell her that she’s going to be tarred as the most liberal candidate ever by the vast right wing media machine so she might as well try to play the part a bit and appeal to her base.
? Martin
Tiring time of year. Family has 4 performances over a 6 day period. #3 was this evening. #4 is Wed, and the performer is upstairs with a 101 fever. This is going to be a rough one.
Bill E Pilgrim
The spirit of Christmas present.
Yatsuno
@gwangung: Random thought: Is it just me or have both Patty and Maria gotten more left leaning since Elizabeth got elected?
gwangung
@Yatsuno: If its your imagination, Im sharing it with you.
Hm. More progressive Senators allow more progressive impulses in other Senators?
Tommy
@? Martin: Oh lot of performances. I don’t have any kids myself. But I have a single niece and we are close. Been to one performance. Got two more coming up.
And I kid you not she is in pre-preschool :).
Look I am all for musicals. Plays. Sports. You name it. Heck I went to college on a DI sports scholarship and I don’t know if I can recall a SINGLE home game my mom was not there. And I played tennis. Not a lot (insert none) parents there. She was.
But something about this just seems a little “off” to me. But alas I hated when my mom went to see me play when it happened. Years later I knew it was just a display of how much she loved me.
And I am the “super cool” uncle, so got to be there for Katie!
Tommy
@gwangung: Easy for me. Multiple, many Warrens in Congress.
NotMax
@Tommy
That young, she’ll be tickled pink if you introduce her to a song with her name in it.
Tommy
@Bill E Pilgrim: Amen. As I said in another comment I don’t have any kids and only a single niece. Her parents both have really good jobs. My parents (and she is the only grandkid) have more money then they can spend in a lifetime. My brother’s wife’s parents, about the same.
Hard for me to get her a gift that can compare to what they can spend.
So I think about it a lot. Like the entire year I think about it. I get her stuff that my parents and her parents think I am bat shit crazy to buy her. Funny thing, they are often her favorite gifts.
I’ve always been stunned, again I don’t have kids, how much complex thought is going on in that little head of hers. I didn’t realize a child that age was thinking like that.
This year getting her TinyBits (a geeky thing, Google it) and a donation for K.I.N.D.: Kids in Need of Desks Fund. Also making her a video about that donation. Since she just started pre-preschool and can’t start talking about it, I think she will get it.
Told my parents and they think I am crazy. But they thought I was crazy when I got her a kids book on elephants, a DVD on elephants from the BBC, and a huge stuff elephant last year. She sleeps with the elephant and wants the book read every night.
Fair Economist
Both the Clintons have always just followed the political winds. Hillary would never be the enemy for any mainstream Democratic position; her goal will be keeping the party together. Warren in the Senate is perfect because Hillary will enact whatever Democrats want and can get through Congress and Warren has a lot of influence in the Senate.
@Yatsuno: All the Democrats have been better behaved lately. I don’t think Warren is a particularly big part; I think it’s seeing the power of the left grassroots, the real weakness of the money for ads they have been chasing, and the realization that the “center” they’ve been catering to is actually a tiny group and pretty apathetic politically.
Yatsuno
@gwangung: Well Merkeley down south must be having some influence as well. But it does seem like both our Senators are showing more and more they want to appeal to the Democratic Republic of Seattle more. Maybe it’s because there’s a Socialist on the city council and the progressives have had a few victories recently.
Hmm. Wonder what it would take to get the single payer bill moving in Olympia.
gwangung
@Fair Economist: If the left grassroots start to elect on the city/state/Congressional level, I have absolutely no problem with that. That’s the surest way to move the Overton Window.
That also shows they’re engaging, and not sitting things out. If they sit out, politicians rationally move to the Imaginary Center, tiny or not.
? Martin
@Tommy: Wife was one of the performances, so it’s not just kids. But we rolled right out of marching band/football season into holiday concerts. Plus xmas parties, plus work, plus home projects. I’m worn. Just want to drink a big bottle of gin and sleep for 3 days.
No heat at work didn’t help. Seems they lost heat midday on Friday and nobody noticed. It was 50 in my office when I got in. It was 60 at lunch when I finally came to my senses and sent everyone home as it was apparent that the repair crew wasn’t about to finish anytime soon. Nobody was dressed to sit in a 60 degree office for 9 hours. No hot water either, so every time you washed your hands it just made things worse.
? Martin
@Yatsuno: I think most Dems are moving left. I think Warren helped demonstrate it’s safe. Polling suggests it’s safe. It won’t be national, but I think there’s room for a nice populist swell here in 2014. The economy is clearly getting back on track – people see less and less reason for the workers to not share in the recovery.
Betty Cracker
@TaMara (BHF): My condolences on the loss of your kitty. Sending wishes for peace and strength in the days ahead.
Betty Cracker
@eemom: So sorry about your dog. They are family.
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus: We’ve been doing home renovations for a year now (one room at a time…for months at a time), and one of the unexpected benefits has been the permanent residence of the shop vac inside the house rather than in its former home in the shed outside. It’s a big shop vac with a long extension — perfect for sucking up scary insects and arachnids from a safe distance!
AMinNC
@Martin (#115)
“The economy is clearly getting back on track – people see less and less reason for the workers to not share in the recovery.”
I think this is the key message. With story after story about how the stock market is soaring and incomes are off the charts for the fortunate few, there finally seems to be the will to ask the question – why shouldn’t everyone share in the prosperity? But that requires a shift in thinking to recognize that the average worker actually contributes to the economy and isn’t just sucking at the teat of a benevolent employer.
I am a business owner, employing about 50 people, and I cringe every time I hear the term “job creators.” What I tell my father-in-law (and other “centrists” who buy that line) is that, fine, call me that if you must, but then you have to call my employees profit producers, because without their hard work every day, I make not one dime – I have no money to hire and pay salaries.
This simple point seems so obvious, and yet somehow the prevailing message is that the only folks contributing to our economy are the Galts (you know the wall-street types who concentrate wealth and then gamble it away, taking our economy with it).
Paul in KY
@TaMara (BHF): My deepest condolences, TaMara. He sure was a regal looking fellow. I know he had a great life with y’all.
Paul in KY
@eemom: Sorry for your loss as well, eemom.
Paul in KY
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Buckeye fans would say that the proof is in their record against Michigan the last few years (in football, the only thing they really care about).
I myself think it is a little over-the-top. Should give Michigan more motivation to beat them (look how crazy they will be once we win).
different-church-lady
This blog has gotten much better since Billmon became a front-pager.
Elizabelle
@different-church-lady:
Tee hee. I wish that could happen, though.
Elizabelle
@eemom:
Very sorry to hear you’ve lost a pup. Hugs to you all.
Matt McIrvin
@? Martin: Unemployment is down to 7% (which is still above the peak of the early-2000s recession, but great compared to 2009). But the employment-to-population ratio has been absolutely flat ever since ’08 and the labor force participation rate (which is how many people of working age are actually working) is actually still dropping.
That’s a lot of discouraged people going off unemployment and settling into some kind of equilibrium where they’re not working. And a lot of young people coming out of school and just not getting jobs, I suppose. And it’s not getting better–it’s getting worse.
But things are getting good again for established, credentialed professionals like me! And like the rich guys who have generally driven policy. So we see more and more tapering off of efforts to create jobs, help the unemployed and get them back to work. Wouldn’t want to anger the inflation god.
Yeah, it’s a ripe environment for economic populism. I hope.
Mnemosyne
@Matt McIrvin:
Okay, possibly dumb question — shouldn’t there be a natural drop in the labor force participation rate as the Baby Boomers retire?
Jebediah, RBG
@AMinNC:
“Profit producers” – excellent coinage! It’s catchy, true, and addresses the whole imbalance of the common framing. I hope it catches on.
NobodySpecial
@Mnemosyne: They are increasingly retiring later and later. That’s another reason why youth unemployment is sky high.
And as it relates to the main topic: Funny how every time someone relatively left starts getting talked about, the usual suspects show up tsk-tsking about ‘saviors’, ‘ponies’, and such. Almost like they don’t want you to get a positive view of any upstart potential leftists showing up.