Lie-berals seem determined to misinterpret the Cooch’s latest totally-not-dogwhistle moneymaking endeavor. Per Gawker:
Noted Virginia awful person and loser of political races Ken Cuccinelli doesn’t want you to end up like George Zimmerman: Don’t let shooting a person to death out of overzealous racially tinged vigilantism wipe out your savings!
Cuccinelli—who as a state legislator and attorney general of Virginia tried to ban anchor babies, abortions, gay sex, gay rights, and climate science—has found a new calling in life defending human rights. Well, one human right, really: The right to terrorize other humans with portable multiple human-killing machines, called “guns.”
Such is the raison d’être of Virginia Self Defense Law, the new firm being started by Cuccinelli and three firearms-lovin’ fellow travelers. “If you own a gun, you NEED VSDL!” the firm’s site screams. “Even lawful use of your firearm could cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees. Protecting your own life shouldn’t cost you your life savings.”…
My (inflammatory) post title comes from the Washington Post, quoting VSDL:
… “A legal retainer with Virginia Self Defense Law costs as little as $8.33 a month — less than half the cost of a hunting license,” the firm’s Web site says. “Don’t be a victim! Don’t let these realities become your family’s fiscal nightmare!”
For that price, the firm promises to defend clients facing firearms charges stemming from an act of self defense and those who have been “harassed by law enforcement for lawfully carrying their weapon.”…
State Sen. Thomas A. Garrett Jr. (R-Louisa), one of Cuccinelli’s partners in the venture, came up with the idea of offering their services by way of an inexpensive retainer. It’s a pricing strategy that has been tried in Texas, and a few outfits provide something like that on a national basis. But Cuccinelli said the national groups will find their client a lawyer — probably a low-priced one — when the need arises….
“It’s not insurance. It’s a retainer plan. But it gives you peace of mind knowing ultimately if something happens, you’ve got that coverage,” Garrett said….
From the WaPo comments so far (“Cuccinelli’s a legal innovator: he figured out how to make money by filling the ambulances up as well as chasing them down”), one would guess Mr. Cuccinelli wasn’t all that popular among the readers who know him best…
Suzanne
I wish I was shady enough to think of shit like this and cash in.
I am coming down with something. Fever, no voice, sore throat, chills. Huzzah.
Sad.
Mnemosyne
Trader Joe’s Latin-Style Black Bean Soup and a toasted cheese sandwich for dinner. Hoping like hell that the rainstorm doesn’t knock out our power before the laundry is dry.
(Poor Keaton is still hiding under the bed after the massive thunderclap we got about half an hour ago. Do Not Want.)
Suzanne
We’re about to get your rain. We need it, too.
Warren Terra
Our country would be a better place if gun owners faced insurance requirements even just a pale shadow of those we deal with for our cars. The idea that you can own a machine designed for the sole purpose of killing human beings and not worry much about liability for its safe and responsible storage and operation boggles my mind. And a sensible insurance firm would offer strong discounts for a clean record (no violent crimes, no DUIs), for the use of a gun safe, for graduation from a meaningful firearm safety class, etcetera, monetarily encouraging the whackjobs who insist on owning these death machines to at least mimic minimally responsible behavior.
Of course, Cuccinelli is a grifter, and he’s proposing to sell some sort of legal-defense services by subscription, rather than liability-payment services by subscription. It’s not really a good thing, nor really progress towards the gun-insurance requirement we should have. But it’s interesting me that the way he’s marketing his firm might reflect movement towards insurance.
Warren Terra
@Mnemosyne: @Suzanne: Here in Pasadena is was practically raining sideways for a while in the afternoon / early evening. Hard, too.
Mnemosyne
@Warren Terra:
Yep, it was doing that in Glendale, too. The cats were a little weirded out by the rain coming and going, but they did not like that thunderclap.
At work, we got to have the fun Southern California experience of discovering leaks in the roof that we didn’t know were there. One manager had to basically clear everything out of his office because there were multiple drips.
Suzanne
@Warren Terra: the storm is coming. My bell outside is freaking out.
I haven’t been this sick in a few years. I need to go to urgent care tomorrow. Going to miss my kid’s birthday party. Sad.
scav
Unless it’s fucking health insurance or medical bills in which case Free Market Can Bear Away!
Omnes Omnibus
@scav:
Nor should it cost an unarmed kid his life.
Southern Beale
On a related note, we have another Second Amendment hero today!
Unbelievable.
RobertDSC-PowerMac G5 Dual
@Mnemosyne:
I got some of the sideways rain action in El Segundo this morning. It was kind of neat, though I really disliked going in and out of the rain as part of my job.
Villago Delenda Est
Surely the Virginia Bar Association is going to do something about this obvious con.
Well? We’re waiting!
Villago Delenda Est
Ack, duplicate comment. FYWP!
Matt
FFS, seriously? Only the modern conservative movement could produce people who have crawled so far up their own asses as to believe that the SHOOTER is the victim…
gf120581
So in less than four months, the Cooch has gone from rising star/future governor/even potential future presidential hopeful to a right-wing version of Lionel Hutz.
How the kooky have fallen.
Omnes Omnibus
@gf120581: Lionel Hutz was capable of babysitting.
danielx
Grifters gonna grift.
Let us say that the hourly rate for Cooch’s legal talents – such as they are, he’s not noted for his legal victories – hasn’t had a lot of courtroom success – but let’s say it’s $150.00 an hour. That would come to $2.50 per minute, which means your $8.33 would buy you…hmmm…something less than four minutes of counsel time! Note that the VSDL verbiage doesn’t say that you’re buying legal insurance for your $8.33 a month. But I’d bet ten dollars against a stale doughnut that there are hundreds of people who will sign up to pay that $8.33 per month so that they can say they have the Cooch and his bros on retainer and God on their side, for which money he won’t have to do diddleyshit for 99% of said wingnuts.
And, really, based on Cucinelli’s record, if you were charged with anything, would you really want him as your advocate? You’re charged with a capital offense? Hello, lethal injection!
Omnes Omnibus
@danielx: $150 an hour is very low for well-known lawyer in his part of the world. OTOH he isn’t well known for competence….
Mnemosyne
@Suzanne:
You may still be in time to get Tamiflu, if the doctor says it’s the flu — they say you should start taking it within 48 hours of the onset of the flu. It’s a nasty flu this season — almost three times more have died from flu in California than last year.
lamh36
Yessir, It’s Mardi Gras time in NOLA. Here’s a pic of my mom on earlier tonight on her way to the Zulu Mardi Gras Ball.
Mom…Zulu Ball 2014
Roger Moore
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m sure Cooch is capable of babysitting, too. No guarantee about the condition of the baby after he’s done sitting on it, though.
ranchandsyrup
@Omnes Omnibus: your case settled in less than 30 minutes or your pizza is free.
ranchandsyrup
Go fornicate yrself, WordPress.
David Koch
What does President Obama, Bill Nye, and Neil deGrasse Tyson have in common? New Legion of BOOOOM! .
Omnes Omnibus
@ranchandsyrup: Here’s my card. It turns into a sponge when you put it in water.
ETA: Lionel Hutz was awesome. I miss Phil Hartman.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
My dad was friends with a guy who sold a lot of those promotional products. It was kind of fun when he’d let me “shop” in his office.
danielx
@Omnes Omnibus:
I don’t doubt that it is low – $300-400 per hour sounds more like it for a well connected Richmond lawyer. But as you noted, not famous for competence. He’s always reminded me of those Regent University School of Law douche waffles who seem to think that if you believe God is on your side and you have excellent conservative credentials, you can’t fail. Must be why there are so many Regent School of Law grads arguing and winning Supreme Court cases.
NotMax
Someone whom the courts came *that close* to outright being called an ignoramus is not someone who inspires confidence (to put it lightly).
jl
‘ “Less than half the cost of a hunting license,” the firm’s Web site says ‘
Ad copy that could induce some expensive moral hazard, in both the technical and ordinary intuitive senses of that phrase.
I’m putting that into my class notes right now as an example.
Did they check with any actuaries before they started this hideous idea of business?
ellennelle
how is this not an insurance plan? because cooch says so?
like he said the vaginal probe was not rape?
Omnes Omnibus
@jl: It isn’t prepaid legal services. It isn’t a retainer. What are the marks buying?
? Martin
Let’s take our small victories where they come:
That was the CEO in a shareholder meeting. Apple is the most profitable corporation in modern times. There are only 16 publicly traded companies that they couldn’t buy with cash-on-hand. And even with that, investing some tiny fraction of the money to build the largest solar installation in the US, and one of the largest fuel cell power stations in the US isn’t good enough for these assholes.
Southern Beale
@ellennelle:
Not having to deal with insurance commissioners and those gol’ durn regulayshuns?
Honestly, this is the problem with these people. Cooch is batshit insane, yet somehow he got elected to office before people realized how truly crazy he was. Now he’ll never, ever go away.
Hungry Joe
Well, if I were planning on shooting somebody — or even hoping that someday I’d have an opportunity to shoot somebody — I’d for sure take out shooter/killer insurance. It’s common sense.
ranchandsyrup
@Omnes Omnibus: miss Hartman as well.
I have hearsay and conjecture. Those are types of evidence.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: Okay. let me rephrase. What the hell do they believe they are buying?
Omnes Omnibus
@ranchandsyrup: “Mrs. Simpson, you’re in luck. Your sexual harassment suit is exactly what I need to help rebuild my shattered practice. Care to join me in a belt of scotch?”
Comrade Dread
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh, he was armed… he just, uh, threw his, uh… shotgun, yeah, that’s it, shotgun out the, er, uh… window.
Of course, in some parts of the country, it wouldn’t matter if he were armed or not since I’m sure you could convince a jury that it was perfectly logical to shoot an unarmed kid given concealed carry and Stand Your Ground laws made it possible that he was carrying a gun and therefore you felt threatened and had to shoot first to protect yourself.
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
Peace of mindlessness.
MattR
Can I pay with bitcoins?
Omnes Omnibus
@Comrade Dread: I simply cannot understand that mindset. A number of years ago, I was mugged by three AA teenagers. In toto, I lost $50. My cards got used but I got all that money back. Ijsut lost the cash in my wallet and a shit load of inconvenience. An army buddy asked me if I had changed my mind about concealed carry (I was and am against it). I said no. I got a couple of stitches and lost $50. That wasn’t worth someone’s life – mine or any of the muggers. I could not imagine killing someone to save fifty bucks.
@NotMax:
Perfect.
SiubhanDuinne
@Suzanne: yeah, after having been ridiculously healthy all winter, I have a little Thing going on in one little part of my throat. I really hope it doesn’t decide to turn into a big Thing.
ranchandsyrup
@Omnes Omnibus: ha! Forgot about that one.
jl
@Omnes Omnibus: thanks I misunderstood. Buyer beware, then.
Helen
Why is the Cooch still in the news? He’s the biggiest biggerer big big bigiest loser loser in the history of losers.. Also? Mr Cooch? Sodomy? Not so bad and the voters have spoken. GO THE FUCK AWAY.
Omnes Omnibus
@jl: It is still a good object lesson for a class.
Mike in NC
The Cooch will have Village cred for several years to come, as a potential US senator or whatever. They still wistfully hope that George Allen will make a political comeback, for Christ’s sake. Having lived in NoVA for 20 years, the idiot Villagers never disappointed.
burnspbesq
There’s no way this venture pencils out. If you assume that each of these jackalopes wants to take home a million a year, they need a minimum of 40,000 subscribers, no churn, and no claims.
Good luck, fellas. See you in Bankruptcy Court. Hopefully before Sen. Warren is able to somehow finagle some meaningful reform to the Bankruptcy Code that would allow individual debtors a truly fresh start.
jl
@Omnes Omnibus: Not for a lecture on insurance, though. Glad I checked back, at least one student would have called me on it, for sure. That can be guaranteed.
burnspbesq
@danielx:
If you want competentrepresentation, try the public defender’s office.
Omnes Omnibus
@jl: Call it fake insurance. Note that people suggest at times that they are selling insurance, but they are actually selling what NotMax called the “peace of mindlessness.”
burnspbesq
@? Martin:
Trying to imagine what Jobs’ response to the same questions might have been. It probably wouldn’t have been nearly as polite as Cook’s.
Those buttheads will more than likely turn around and sue Cook for breach of fiduciary duty.
Cheryl from Maryland
Couldn’t prosecutors see this as premeditation? I hired a lawyer before I killed someone doesn’t shout lacking intent to kill.
MattR
@Omnes Omnibus: When I first started going into NYC, my mother’s biggest concern was making sure I had that $50 in my pocket. Her theory was that it was better to have the cash to give a mugger than to have him become frustrated and irrational when you have nothing to give.
@burnspbesq: I assumed that was the whole point. Take subscriber fees and use them to pay the partners as high a salary as possible (and a lavish office as well if possible). Then when subscribers start to need legal services, they declare bankruptcy complaining that they don’t take in enough to cover their monthly costs and they don’t have anything in reserve.
jl
@Omnes Omnibus: Hey… wait a minute. How is this not prepaid legal insurance? This is what their website says. I think I got it right the first time.
” If you have a retainer agreement with Virginia Self Defense Law PLC and you have a self-defense or law enforcement harassment situation, arising out of the use of your firearm, in which you or a family member end up being a named defendant in a Criminal, Civil, or administrative proceeding Virginia Self Defense Law PLC’s experienced trial ready attorneys will step in and defend you for no additional legal fees! ”
It says right there that you make the monthly payment and you get a defense for “no additional legal fees! ”
And further down, in one of the three points about why their firm is the bestest:
” Many of the national plans cap the amount of expenses that they are willing to pay (for example $200,000.00). We have no cap, if you retain our firm, we will represent you through the engagement for no additional legal fee. ”
On the other hand, they won’t provide text of their agreement online because “The attorneys at Virginia Self Defense Law PLC spent over Six months drafting and perfecting our retainer agreement to craft it to fit our client’s needs. We are proud of our work and therefore consider it proprietary information and do not post it online.”
I guess a lawyer will have to explain the scam to me.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cheryl from Maryland: No. Setting aside privilege issues, hiring these guys might show a general intent to maybe shoot someone at some point. For premeditation or murder in general, one needs specificity. Your thought briefly crossed my mind as well, but I had to very quickly discount it.
NotMax
As it’s an Open Thread –
For those partial to foreign films, Tuesday March 4 is a red-letter day on TCM.
La Strada
The Burmese Harp
The Virgin Spring
Closely Watched Trains
The Battle of Algiers
Z
Babette’s Feast
Running one after beginning at 6:45 a.m. (Eastern) and ending at 8 p.m.
Omnes Omnibus
@jl: No, it looks like you might be right. I wonder if they are compliant with VA insurance regs. then again, since the details of the contract aren’t public, how can we be sure? Given the people involved, I resume the sleaziest possible result.
NotMax
@NotMax
Should read:
Running one after another
jl
@Omnes Omnibus: IANAL, which I find myself typing often here, so I have no idea about the legalities of their scheme in Virginia. But in economic and financial terms, it looks like insurance to me. They say that they are not an insurance firm because they don’t farm out cases to attorneys outside the firm, but that has little to do with the economics of it.
Maybe a brave person in VA could email them and get a copy and see what it says.
And they seem willing to take on the whole ball of wax. Their site says the retainer/insurance is good whenever a policy holder (or whatever they are called) is named as a defendant in “a Criminal, Civil, or administrative proceeding” That sounds pretty broad. Maybe they don’t cover appeals or there is some legal weasel words about civil cases in the actual agreement.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mnemosyne: Half a century ago, I worked for a few months for Brown & Bigelow, one of the leading suppliers of corporate promotional items. I loved their product line, and I’ve never lost my taste for all that nifty stuff.
Omnes Omnibus
@jl: I am not licensed in VA and I am not an insurance guy. So I don’t know either. I just go back to my belief that it will be the sleaziest thing possible. Of course, I can’t prove it but I am pretty sure I am right.
Ian
@Cheryl from Maryland:
I see it as idiocy. Maybe its just me, but I would rather have a public defender, for free :P
Edit: I also don’t own a gun or live in Virginia or plan on shooting anyone anytime soon
Roger Moore
@NotMax:
Where would you like your internets delivered?
Omnes Omnibus
@Ian: Always take a private attorney if you can. Most public defenders are devoted and talented. The problem is that they are overworked to such an extent that they sometimes cannot provide a proper defense.
Roger Moore
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’d go more for the sleaziest thing they can think of. I’m sure that intelligent, competent sleazy lawyers could plumb deeper depths of sleaze.
Ian
@Omnes Omnibus:
I agree 99% of the time. That 1% would be paying for the cooch
jl
@Roger Moore: Thanks. That built up my confidence a little. Good luck to them, then.
danielx
@burnspbesq:
I devoutly hope never to need representation, but will remember what you say. It seems likely that Cooch’s – subscribers? – would receive better representation from a public defender.
gian
@burnspbesq:
this was a scam of sorts IIRC in the late 90s or so under the notion of calling it some sort of weird insurance product.
I mean I guess some suckers bought it, and some new graduate lawyers who were desperate for work may have lent a bar card.
but if some guy falls on my stairs in my house, my homeowners oughta cover it, and if I spill my coffee and blow a stop sign, my car insurance ought to step in…
othoh, @Omnes Omnibus:
it really depends on where and who the public defender is. there are some who (before they burn out) will do whatever it takes. there are some who are smart and cynical enough to straight up tell you what they think the case is worth and what the odds are and put the decision in your hands, there are some who have another 10 people to talk to and want to go home at five, and there are some who just like to argue and are willing to see what happens to you to try an argument.
going private will get you better customer service but not necessarily a better result..
(I think there’s a subconscious bias involved here) I think that judges tend to trust lawyers they’ve dealt with over time who don’t bullshit them, so a frequently seen trusted public defender might get a better ear with the judge, and a private lawyer might have burned a bridge on trust.
to me this is the kind of stuff you only get to know by talking to people involved, if they’ll actually talk to you.
were it me, I’d be wariest of the lawyer that wants to use me to make an argument go somewhere, or tells me to go to trial because the witnesses won’t show up. (now if I was a mobster….)
Omnes Omnibus
@gian: Of course your public defender could be a burnt out vet or an inexperienced newbie, but most are people who chose that career because it mattered to them and are good at what they do.
Halcyon
So why isn’t the plan to *use* this? “Even-The-Conservative-Cooch thinks insurance is a reasonable thing for a gun owner!” should be at the top of every single liberal blog tomorrow. (That he insists it isn’t insurance is irrelevant.) We should be screaming for *more* of this (and then, you know, regulating the shit out of it) and insisting that insurance be *mandatory* for gun owners, and that it cover all the liabilities for the things that can end up getting shot. When they’re forced to actually pay the societal costs, maybe they’ll actually treat the responsibility seriously.
The Republic of Stupidity
Is it just me, or do those initials come across as some sort of newfangled sexually transmitted disease?
Xenos
@Omnes Omnibus: the marks are buying the retention of prepaid services. Once those are gone through they get a bill from Cooch & Co.
I am not sure what the VA courts supervising the practice of law think about this, but they premiums sound like client funds that need to be held in escrow, not used to lawyers for fees that have not yet been incurred.
JGabriel
Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of paying the retainer in the first place?
I mean, if someone wants a low-pay lawyer, they can just rely on the public defender. It doesn’t sound like there would be much difference in quality between the lawyer Cuccinelli would get you for a retainer and one appointed by a judge for free.
So not only is Cuccinelli selling murder insurance, he’s doing it in a way that doesn’t provide anything more than what the government already does without any charge at all.
In other words, it’s your typical conservative scam.
Cheryl from Maryland
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks for the reply. I can see it wouldn’t apply if one shoots a stranger.
But what if you shoot your spouse? Maybe I have read too many Agatha Christies, Dorothy Sayers, etc. (yes, I know that is Brit law) — so often the murderer buys cyanide or rat poison for a supposedly innocent reason, and then the spouse ends up poisoned.
Phantom 309
@ranchandsyrup: Mmmm…pizza….
More likely free ammo.
wenchacha
Then we might also want to buy insurance so we can afford to bring a civil suit against the tunabrain who shoots and kills us or our loved one.