@Any_Everyman @theonlyadult I deleted that Tweet bc I'm not sure how that was tweeted by me. Bergdahl was NOT a POW. He deserted. traitor
— KimInNC (@kimpar_NC) June 4, 2014
In other Bergdahl news:
The hometown of U.S. Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl has canceled a rally planned for later this month celebrating his release from five years of Taliban captivity, a municipal official told Reuters on Wednesday, amid allegations that he was a deserter.
Stay classy, wingnuts.
Yatsuno
They are, in fact, who we thought they were.
SiubhanDuinne
I suppose I shouldn’t waste my energy, but this makes me so fucking angry I can hardly see straight.
Baud
Lol Newsmax/Graham: “Taliban Dream Team”
Yatsuno
Also too, no haz edit (FYWP):
Traitor has a very specific legal definition in the US. It is, in fact, the only crime specifically defined in the Constitution. And there are not two witnesses to the act to speak of his desertion. He will most likely have an AWOL charge leveled against him, if anything. Which is a totally different matter.
Alex
I linked to this at the bottom of the previous thread, but now it’s at the top!
National Review
——
For more “fun”, there’s Gawker collecting Matt Binder’s twitter — where he goes and finds angry conservatives demanding Obama do what needs to be done to free Bergdahl. And are now attacking Bergdahl or the deal that was made.
And, of course, Oliver North weighs in on the right way to “negotiate with terrorists”.
gbear
Fucking pants-wetters. This has way too much in common with the previous story about Tiananmen Square, only instead of a brutal government clamping down on celebrating a returned POW, we’re clamping down on ourselves due to an irrational hatred of the president. This is a self inflicted repression, and it’s a really scary development. This should not be happening.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Yatsuno: I have my doubts about an AWOL charge as well.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@SiubhanDuinne:
There have been so many right wing insanities over so long a period of time that I’m angered-out. Now all I can do is placidly look on and occasionally smile as their movement devours those who it deems unworthy, then devours those whom it deems unworthy, then devours those whom it deems unworthy…
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
I find it all an interesting experiment in guaging the tensile strength of racism in this country.
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: This.. You are not alone. I haven’t watched a news program all day. Even the local news is toxic.
JPL
Why was the deserter/terrorist/traitor promoted while being held captive?
Litlebritdifrnt
I asked this question downstairs. Can someone please tell me why the Army PROMOTED a fucking deserter TWICE while he was in captivity? I don’t know of any other instance where an alleged deserter was promoted TWICE while he was AWOL, can some of you ex-army types explain this to me? Because Sean Hannity sure as hell hasn’t while trying to destroy Bowe and his father every fifteen minutes.
AliceBlue
I know I shouldn’t be surprised, but I’m just gobsmacked at how ugly this has gotten.
kindness
The hard right is doing everything they can to bring on a shooting civil war right here. Sadly the gun-humpers would love nothing better it seems. Hate to say it but I think it might be a good time for liberals to start thinking about how they are going to deal with the extremes we may come upon.
srv
They should have done the prisoner exchange in Benghazi
RaflW
Wingnuts are canceling their vacations to Hailey, ID.
Yeah, so fucking classy.
Ash Can
Fuck Reuters and its “amid allegations” bullshit. Here’s the text of the press release, as reported by a commenter at LGF:
I have looked for but have not found a link to the press release, but I have no reason to believe it’s not authentic. These are people who were completely blindsided by the criminal insanity of the American right wing, and if they want to take steps to close off their celebration from the right-wing terrorists who have been harassing them and threatening to show up and harm them, I for one find it entirely understandable. But the simple fact that we live in a nation where this sort of thing happens makes me sick.
tavella
I know that it is standard procedure to promote officers according to the normal time in grade while POWs, or at least was in Vietnam, so I’d guess the same holds for enlisted. And unlike the wingnuts, the Army usually prefers a trial and evidence before convicting someone of desertion. If they do decide to put him on trial and he is eventually convicted, he’ll no doubt get booted down to private as part of the sentence.
Hal
@Baud: It has a better ring than Taliban 5.
This story is just more and more infuriating to me. I joke that Obama could support curing cancer and the GOP would come out against it, but I don’t think that’s a joke any longer.
From Oliver North’s Facebook page. I wonder how long this will stay up?
facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=287604197929084&id=216940628328775
MR. Twister
God damn every Republican in this country.
jl
Someone with expertise in GOPer BSers needs to document all the flip-flops
It should be a long long list, with every single one of the All-Stars on it.
Does anyone know of one? I guess I should suggest it to TPM.
Edit:
@Hal:
Ah, I see another one. I welcome the likes of Oliver North to the list of flip flopper jackasses and hypocrites and partisan opportunists (at least on this topic, North is on many notorious lists documenting other kinds of jackassery).
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Litlebritdifrnt: My understanding is that since he was never court martialed and was demonstrably a POW he continued to accrue seniority just like any other POW. On top of the due process issues it sounds like the Army didn’t want to publicize whatever concerns they had while they were trying to get him back.
Roger Moore
@tavella:
I guess the liberals have taken over even the military. We’re doomed!
RaflW
@Litlebritdifrnt: It’s been answered. In every Bo-related thread on here in the past 36 hours.
dedc79
When idiot American Christian missionaries travel to devout Muslim countries to convert the heathens and run into trouble, we do all we can to assure their safe return. When idiots hike mountains they shouldn’t hike and get stranded, we risk lives to save them. When idiot amateur sailors get caught in rough water, we risk lives to rescue them.
But Obama is a traitor nazi for getting this soldier back safe and sound.
Cacti
The right wing attempts to purge every positive statement they made about Bergdahl are reminiscent of the old Soviet Politburo.
These people are completely off the rails, nuts.
raven
Bobby Garwood
Alex
@Litlebritdifrnt: It’s standard procedure to promote POWs. He was in line for a third promotion soon, but it has been put on hold pending the investigation and possible punishment. Any punishment given would be expected to be light, due to being held in captivity.
Ripley
So, the U.S. Army is now firmly to the left of America’s True Patriots at Fox News? Hmmm. I seem to have gotten off the crazy train at the wrong stop.
jl
@Cacti: These nincompoops still think that if they delete the links and pages, it all ‘goes away’? Dingbats. Vicious dingbats, but dingbats still.
hildebrand
Two thoughts on this stupid business. One, can we bloody well wait to find out what actually happened before screaming about whether this guy deserted or not? Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. That is what really fries my shorts with this story. We don’t know what happened. Not yet. Not with any sense of accuracy. Two, the five people we exchanged are not the god damned Legion of Doom. Are they trying to make them somehow scarier than Osama bin Laden so that Obama can no longer boast of bringing down the Big Cheese?
I hope that every torment in Dante’s Inferno awaits McCain and his gang of small-minded charlatans.
Hill Dweller
@jl: I think I saw one from Gawker floating around the Twitter machine today.
John (MCCARTHY) Cole
@Alex: I honestly don’t know how it works- maybe Soonergrunt can weigh in. To get promoted normally from Specialist to Sergeant, you usually have to go through PLDC. Maybe they were just battlefield promotions, if that even exists. No expertise on this whatsoever.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
According to Sean Hannity today, not only was he a deserter but he was actively aiding the enemy (the Taliban), according to one of his former colleagues after he deserted the strikes on their base became more accurate. I understand that this could be all bullshit, and more than likely is, but I do not see how the RWNJ narrative can survive in the light that the Army obviously did not view him as a deserter, they viewed him as a POW which is why they promoted him. And yes I know I shouldn’t be listening to Sean Hannity but know thine enemy and all that.
raven
@Roger Moore: I had the opportunity to spend an hour today talking with an Army Major, West Point (football player) two tours of Iraq and finishing his PhD in Higher Ed Admin. He was an fascinating individual. Totally supportive of gays in the military, very concerned with the educational well being of both those in the military and vets and just an all around really nice fellow. I feel fortunate to have been able to talk to him.
Cacti
@jl:
The fact that they’re all doing it at once pretty much gives away the game that it’s a coordinated character assassination.
I predict most if not all of the allegations will be either exaggerated, or false a la Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman.
And when the media sobers up from joining the mob and starts feeling dirty, they’ll blame Obama for their participation in the coordinated defamation of a POW.
Elizabelle
They won’t be happy until they drive former captive Bergdahl to suicide, eh?
raven
@John (MCCARTHY) Cole:
Hill Dweller
I think the Village hates Obama just as much as the wingnuts hate him. They’ve fanned the flames like their lives depended on it.
Penus
@Litlebritdifrnt: The promotions were likely rubber stamped, but no way in hell he would have gotten promoted if they suspected him of desertion.
Villago Delenda Est
The massive effort of the usual wingtard scum to erase all their support of the “deserter” Bergdahl is breathtaking.
These are the people Orwell warned us about.
Ash Can
In Litlebritdifrnt’s defense, I suspect she meant to put quotation marks around the word “deserter.”
Villago Delenda Est
@hildebrand:
No
/wingtard SATSQ
Huckleberry Closetcase says that they are the “Taliban dream team”.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Hill Dweller: Gawker has a list of tweeter flip-floppers, but the only name I recognize is Charlie Daniels, and I didn’t look it up to see if it’s Devil Went Down to Georgia Charlie Daniels.
Lawrence Korb was on MSNBC today pointing out that the “Taliban Five” had to be either charged or released about a year from now, according to international law, which seems like a significant details.
MikeBoyScout
I remember when the side besmirching the voluntary enlisted service of POW Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl was all about “Support Our Troops”.
Fuck ’em.
Hey Hailey, Idaho, bring your homecoming parade to Seattle. We’ll welcome him home and we have no fear of the wingnuts.
Thoughtful David
@jl:
Here you go.
Wayback over at the GOS.
I bet you can find more.
Steeplejack
@Baud:
I’m late catching up on threads, but I didn’t see where anyone answered your question last night about the proliferation of ornate nyms.
Lately FYWP has had another outbreak of nym blight, a.k.a. Yutsano’s Disease, where people’s responses to certain commenters (e.g., Omnes, MikeJ, maybe some others) get eaten because FYWP doesn’t like the recipient’s nym in the “reply to” link. So they changed their nyms. Others just got caught up in the hoopla.
A workaround: if you find that a reply to someone else gets eaten, you can rewrite the message and change the recipient’s nym in the “reply to” HTML code in your message. I was changing “Omnes Omnibus” to “Omnes” until he changed his nym.
Kyle
@dedc79:
When the idiot sons of Admirals get shot down over Hanoi after disobeying flight orders, they get lauded as heroes for their courage and endurance whether or not there are murky allegations of special treatment while they were POWs.
But if McStain can support CheneyBush’s torture after being a victim of it, I’m sure he won’t gag on joining this latest witchhunt.
Cacti
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Other flip-floppers include:
John McCain
Kelly Ayotte
Allen West
Sarah Palin
And that’s just off the top of my head.
Ash Can
@Villago Delenda Est: I’ll repeat what I said in an earlier thread:
I’m 56 years old, have been interested in domestic and international politics since I was in grade school, and remember the Soviet Union very clearly. All of my hip and sarcastic high school and college classmates and I would make fun of the USSR (among most other countries) on a regular basis, and a very common running joke back in those days was “Who’s been airbrushed out of the latest Tass photo?”
Seeing this actually happening now in my own country is, well, if I drink enough tonight I might eventually come up with the words for it.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Litlebritdifrnt: My understanding is that even if the Army thought he was a deserter it wouldn’t classify him as such without due process. And without that classification he was entitled to promotions. Frankly, I think you’re wrong as to what the Army might have done in a situation in which it suspected that a POW had deserted before getting captured without ever having the chance to interview him.
jl
@Hill Dweller: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: @Thoughtful David: @Cacti:
Thanks, Links and stuff will go into a folder on my trusty ‘puter.
mouse tolliver
God. Tweety’s losing his mind again tonight because we freed Magneto, Mystique, Loki, Bane and the Joker in exchange for Nick Brody.
I notice Joan Walsh is MIA even though she’s usually on his show. Probably because she’s been pointing out the GOP’s flip-flopping bullshit and he doesn’t want to hear reason. Let me finish!!!!!!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cacti: also too, per @Thoughtful David: ‘s link to D-Kos, Ollie North
jl
Thanks to commenters above for listy links of flip floppers. Links and stuff will go into a folder on my trusty ‘puter.
Cacti
Never forget, the same people who are sliming Bergdahl are the ones who fabricated the stories about:
Jessica Lynch heroically fighting off an ambush until succumbing to her wounds (reality: testified she never fired a shot).
Pat Tillman heroically going down in a blaze of enemy fire and winning the Silver Star (reality: shot 3 times in the head by friendly fire). They even lied to his family’s faces about it.
Litlebritdifrnt
@raven:
My former employer Military Attorney George Kripner had Bobby as his best man at his wedding to Donna, that is how much he believed in him.
raven
@mouse tolliver: He is fucking awful, I’d really like to kick his fucking ass.
D58826
@Litlebritdifrnt: POWs are automatically promoted to their next grade while they are prisoners. It is just an automatic thing and says nothing about the events s surrounding his capture. Obviously a court martial or other disciplinary action can result in loss of grade.
I know that we can’t give up but it does seem like its trying to sweep the Sandy storm surge back with a broom. The elephant echo chamber is a well oiled machine that simply repeats the same stuff, true or not over and over again. The GOP spins pick a story and send out an e-mail to all of the branches of the machine with the appropriate talking points. No matter how often the talking points are debunked they keep repeating them. They are repeated more times than they can be debunked. Most of the rest of the world moves on but they keep flogging the same story over and over. Before long it seeps over into the non-wingnut world and is reported either as fact or both sides do it. ‘Six HERO (for good measure) soldiers died to rescue Bergdahl” is now the default story line. The fact that the NYT has a long article stating that it isn’t quite that simple will appear in a couple of editions and then disappear but the narrative ‘six dead soldiers’ will live on.
It is the same with Obamacare. The elephant has been trumpeting for 4 years that Obamacare is a failure. There is no way the WH can match that level of coverage since there are dozens of other things happening in the world that they have to address. The elephant can just talk about Obamacare 24×7 and ignore all the rest of the world. It then seeps into the mainstream world. No wonder polling shows Obamacare is widely unpopular since that’s all people have been hearing for the past 4 years. Yet when they remove the name Obamacare and just ask about the individual features it is very popular. I love the story of the guy in Kentucky who signed up at a local health fair for the KY version. He was glad he could sign up for it rather that that terrible Obamacare.
Whither the MSM has a liberal slant or not they simply don’t cover the same 3-4 stories over and over and over again. Things happen, they are reported on and then the MSM moves on to the next set of news stories as the world goes about its sorry business.
I don’t know how you fight that. Sure the elephant is preaching to the choir (but then so is BJ and Rachael Maddow). It’s how do you get that information out to the majority of voters who have decided that watching a Little League baseball game or teaching the little one to ride a bike is more important on a day to day basis then who said what to whom in Washington.
MattR
I am sure y’all have seen the claims by some in his unit (and the reguritation by the right wing outrage machine) that his disappearance led to the death of up to 8 other men. The NY Times has a pretty good piece that looks into the details of those deaths. It seemed like they were unfortunately pretty typical of the casualties being taken throughout Afghanistan at that time. I guess you could say Bergdahl’s disappearance may have led to some deaths in the sense that may have been patrolling in area X instead of area Y (if that is in fact even true and not just rumors floating around among the soldiers), but there is no indication area X was any more or less dangerous than area Y and so the same casualties could have happened if they were patrolling area Y.
(EDIT: I assume Hailey will throw some sort of celebration for Bowe once the hoopla has died down. They could probably avoid the protests by just doing it next week while giving little advanced notice.)
raven
@Litlebritdifrnt: Great!
raven
@MattR: If he hadn’t disappeared we would have unassed that motherfucker and all would have been well.
Litlebritdifrnt
@mouse tolliver:
She was on Rev Al earlier, Tweety doesn’t want to tangle with her.
RaflW
@hildebrand:
Lynchings, for one thing. McCarthyist red-baiting bullshit for another.
Not to pick on you, but our country has a horrible track record on innocent until proven guilty. Though it very much should be both the law and practice of our country. Absolutely.
I’m just amazed at the ferocity in this. I can see how a mob could whip up to a real, swinging in a tree lynching in the (not very distant, really) past.
Barry
At this point fuck these scum. Literally, with a broken broomstick. They will push and push and push until we hurt them back.
different-church-lady
My question is: any of this playing outside of the political pornosphere?
I mean, you know they’re trolling the left, and the “media” is having a blast watching them do it. But other than the sports fans, is the general public in any way bent out of shape about this?
Archon
Stories like this make me wonder if we have passed the event horizon with American conservatives. Seriously what can I possibly have in common with people who think a fellow American should have been left to rot in some Afghani cave based on hearsay. Even if he did walk off from that remote outpost in enemy territory, so what? If anything that suggests someone who was mentally ill and unfit for duty not a traitor or coward.
I know a big chunk of this is simple, mindless partisanship but I’ve never felt as politically disconnected from the right as I do with this story.
raven
@different-church-lady: Most people don’t give a rats ass about any of it. Not the troops, the wars or the goddamn POW’s. So it was written, so it will be.
raven
Tweety has this toxic fucking bitch Blackburn on.
eta She doesn’t want to deal in hypotheticals.
Cacti
And far be it from any soldier to lie, but more than half of Rusty Calley’s troops swore that the women, children, infants, and elderly of My Lai that they mowed down were actually angry Viet Cong.
Certified Mutant Enemy
@Hal:
Screenshot saved before Minitrue gets to it…
RaflW
@Elizabelle: Once I realized that they’d managed to destroy the welcome home celebration earlier today, I’ve been wondering if he’d have to be put on suicide watch.
His parents must be shattered by all this.
I got the sense that the nice lady running the Hailey Chamber was pretty stunned. Heck, the town has now been through an amazing, horrible whipsaw.
Hill Dweller
@raven: A bag of hammers has an higher IQ than Blackburn.
opiejeanne
On Monday my husband and I passed a sign on I-5, just south of Yreka, CA, one of those clean-road sponsors signs that said it was paid for by Friends of Bowe Bergdahl. This was in red-state, State of Jefferson territory.
We shouted when we saw it because we had just heard of his release and not the awful reaction.
I wonder if they’ll make the state take it down now.
raven
@Cacti: bullshit
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@raven: well, she does have a wealth of experience in military, terrorism and national security affairs, what with her degree in home economics and her career as a clothes shopping consultant (ie. as I think Southern Beale told us, she would tell you if you were an “autumn” or a “summer’, and help you pick your wardrobe accordingly).
different-church-lady
@Archon:
I say we feed them more rope. Our outrage is misplaced — we already know they’re circus clowns, the only thing stunning is the new level of indecency.
Instead of being enraged, we ought to be doing our own version of “Please proceed, Governor.” It’s like there’s a thousand McCarthys out there setting up a million Joseph Welches.
raven
Blackburn pivots to Benghazi.
mouse tolliver
@raven:
And she can’t say what she would’ve done differently. And Benghazi!!!! Bengazi!!!
Roger Moore
@hildebrand:
Conservatives have always been skeptical of the concept. They’re OK with using it as an excuse for why they can’t be condemned immediately, but they have no commitment to it as an abstract principle. They’re more believers in the dunking stool theory of justice.
raven
@mouse tolliver: He’s let her slide “he broke the law” in several times.
RaflW
@Hill Dweller:
I’m sure some of them hate Obama. But, in fact, their lives depend on scandal. Reporting on boring competence, or even reporting on now-boring GOP intransigence just isn’t generating eyeballs.
I’d say the Village is deeply, terribly craven. Which is more damnable.
raven
dmsilev
@mouse tolliver:
That ship sailed years ago.
D58826
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I read the other day that the ‘base’ was a collection of armored vehicles in a wagon train style circle with barbed wire and mines between the vehicles. The troops sleep in the vehicles or in what used to be called pup tents. I find it hard to believe that the local Afghans , who have been living and fighting in that area for years if not centuries needed Bergdahl to register their fire. Depending on the needs of the moment Hannity will make the Taliban out to be ten foot tall super heroes or boobs who can’t make piss run down their own leg. Needless to say none of his guests call him on it because they are all in the same bubble.
Villago Delenda Est
@Hill Dweller: A bag of hammers is far more useful, too.
Villago Delenda Est
@RaflW:
Which is just one reason why it must be destroyed.
Wipe them out, all of them.
raven
@D58826: Depends where the base was, Restrepo was so far up in the mountains they weren’t getting any tracks in.
SiubhanDuinne
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
HBM, I keep thinking I’m angered out, and then they do/say things that are just So.Fucking.Hateful.And.Inane, that I find myself practically in tears of fury and incoherent with rage. It’s not good for me, and it does nothing to further what could be a somewhat rational and possibly useful conversation.
You are the wiser of us, I do believe.
SatanicPanic
@kindness: They’re not going to get their civil war. Look at the run up to the actual Civil War- losing the slaves to emancipation meant the complete economic collapse of the south- not exaggerating, it would be like if they had to give up automobiles or computers today. They have no similar value to protect right now and as a result they’re not going get state legislatures to vote to secede. There is no similarly sympathetic president sitting in the White House ordering the army to leave fort and armories sitting empty. And they don’t face the threat of John Brown hacking them to pieces.
Shorter- they’re all talk.
TaMara (BHF)
@different-church-lady: I’m so angry about this I can’t really think clearly and I want to rant about it because I think my right-wing relatives are going to be all over this and I want to prove them assholes. But they’ve been strangely quiet about it.
Most of them have served or are married to ones who served, so this might be a bridge to far, even for them.
D58826
@raven: And I suspect that during those operation we killed a lot of the Taliban soldiers, maybe even picked up some useful intelligence. Isn’t that what the army was there for – find and engage the enemy?
RaflW
@TaMara (BHF):
From your fingertips to FSM’s flat screen.
Patrick
The last six years have been just bizarre. It seems that the right-wing in America have openly rooted against our country. When it was announced Chicago would not get the Olympics back in 2009, TV cameras at a conservative event captured the attendees CHEERING for America NOT getting the Olympics. I was just stunned.
And here we go again, the same anti-American idiots are rooting against a US POW coming home. I never thought I would live to see this day. McCain, by the way, should be ashamed of himself.
different-church-lady
@TaMara (BHF):
That’s what I’m saying: Dr. Frankenstein has gone so far off the rails on this one that even his Monster has been brought up short by it.
D58826
@raven: The article specifically mentioned armored vehicles so I don’t really know any more. But just over the years from what I read most of these bases were rag-tag affairs, no power, no hot food, etc. General Grants troops would probably have felt quite at home. We are not talking fortified castles here.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
How strong? This strong.
raven
@D58826: Fuckin A
RaflW
Loved this comment today on FB from a friend fed up with the TeeVee blather:
Roger Moore
@SatanicPanic:
No, it wouldn’t have. They might have thought it would, but straight emancipation would not have been as devastating as all that. The planters still would have owned the land and the former slaves wouldn’t have, so most of the former slaves would have wound up as paid employees rather than unpaid slaves. The actual Civil War obviously caused great hardship in the South, but that was more because of the death and property damage than because of the emancipation.
Roger Moore
@Patrick:
If he were capable of shame, he would have retired from politics a long time ago.
gogol's wife
@Steeplejack:
OT, thanks for the Gold Slacks link!
DTOzone
@hildebrand:
There is no justice in the court of public opinion, just spin
RaflW
@Patrick: I will not make common cause with those America-hating shitheels.
But.
Olympic game bidding/spending might be the one sliver of actual waste, fraud and abuse that decorates their massive bonfire of lies.
dmsilev
I love this NewsMax headline: “Sen. Lindsey Graham, Obama Frees ‘Taliban Dream Team,’ “. I’ve always thought Larry Bird was suspicious. Now we know, I guess.
Botsplainer
This is Schiavo again. A relatively small statistical number of wingnuts lighting up Jeb Bush’s emails seemed like a large number, so he fell for it. That campaign by wingnuts lying about where they were from and how many calls suckered GOP staffers in Congress when the focus shifted, and they were paid to know better.
The townies in Hailey aren’t nearly as sophisticated. They got suckered. The POW-MIA folks won’t bother either.
pseudonymous in nc
So, which teabagger gun nut is going to do his patriotic duty and off the deserter, and possibly his suspiciously bearded dad as well?
Because this is where it’s going.
raven
@D58826: There are all kinds of different “bases”. The fabulous Forward Observation Base is actually often a big facility and their inhabitants are called “Fobbits” the same as us “REMF’s” in the Nam. Restrepo was an Observation Post (OP) and the grunts mounted op’s from their. Sooner or Cassidy would be better to explain the levels since I’m mostly familiar with firebases where there was arty and the grunts mounted ops from them (outside the wire).
dmsilev
@Patrick: Speaking as someone who lives about a mile and a half away from the proposed main stadium in Chicago (and at the time of the vote, lived about half a mile away), I cheered when Chicago lost. Did Not Want.
The Dangerman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
How can that be? One of The Usual Suspects (I think it was Graham) said he wanted them to live the rest of their lives in Guantanamo.
Personally, I hope one of the 5, if they ARE that important, is dumb enough to contact Mullah Omar somehow and we pop both of them with a missile.
beltane
@Patrick: The right-wing are behaving exactly like the brainwashed members of a Maoist cult. It would be frightening enough if this cult only had thousands of members, but to know that they number in the tens of millions is simple despair inducing.
If John McCain had any sense of shame, he would have died of shame a long time ago.
gogol's wife
@Botsplainer:
I am getting a Schiavo vibe from it, too.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Patrick:
There are elements in their behavior thought that remind me of the way the right-wing Catholics and monarchists treated the French Republic in the Dreyfuss era (claiming patriotism while desperately trying to make the Republic fail). Or the black nobility in Rome who refused to accept that they were a part of Italy.
SiubhanDuinne
For the last few months, I’ve been following Connie Schultz on Facebook (for those who may not know, she is a Pulitzer-winning syndicated columnist, author of two books, and married to Sen. Sherrod Brown [D-OH]). I like her writing — she is passionate, but never shrill, about the progressive/liberal/human issues she cares about, and her writing style is actually kind of gentle. Anyhow, her column today is about the RWNJ attacks on the senior Bergdahl’s “Taliban-style” beard. Worth a read if you’re so inclined.
japa21
As I have said before, if Bergdahl had deserted TO the Taliban, they would have shouting the news all over the place. It would have been a tremendous PR coup for them. Bergdahl was obviously distressed by much of what he was witnessing, but there is no indication he thought the Taliban was the answer.
Baud
@dmsilev:
Yeah, but that’s not why they were cheering.
Cacti
@japa21:
As I have said before, if Bergdahl had deserted TO the Taliban, they would have shouting the news all over the place. It would have been a tremendous PR coup for them.
If he had deserted to the Taliban, what possible value would he have held for prisoner exchanges? He’d be an enemy combatant.
SiubhanDuinne
@Elizabelle:
You have captured one of my deepest fears.
Patrick
@dmsilev:
That’s fine. You had a valid reason. You live there.
Their reason was because they hated Obama. They hated him so much that a loss for America was more important to them. It blew my mind and it always will.
Cacti
Also too, has anyone in the corporate media mentioned the report from the Manning document dump that had Taliban radio chatter laughing about Bergdahl being caught while taking a crap?
He deserted…to use the toilet?
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I didn’t check it out either, but it suspect it’s the same guy. Apparently he has become more and more rightwingnutty and Christianist over the past decade or so.
scav
@dmsilev: While I was unsure about the general traffic and not wild about the Olympics in general. Mildly hoping for accelerated public transit rehab as an upside. Still, it’s a little different than not wanting it merely because the election didn’t go your way and you feel like a good stomp and nobody else to get anything nice ever if you can’t have what you want so there ha showed you.
Woodrowfan
@SiubhanDuinne: thank you
Cassidy
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I’m wondering if he was dumped.
beltane
@Roger Moore: Most white southerners did not own slaves anyway. What drove them to commit mass treason was rage at the the thought that they would lose their God-given right as white people to own other human beings. Much of American-style conservatism can be summed up as “I might be a drunk, illiterate, scumbag, but by virtue of my white skin I am the natural lord and master of all the rest of humanity.”
Nothing at all has changed in the hearts and minds of these people over the past 150 years.
dmsilev
@Baud: Oh, I know. They were cheering because Obama is from Chicago (and went to the IOC meeting to lobby for Chicago) and therefore it was a setback for Obama.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Cassidy: He doesn’t seem like he was a guy the rest of the troops hung with during downtime – sounds like it was mutual.
D58826
The level of concern that Congress has for our veterans, from huffington
Grandstanding scumbags, the whole lot
skerry
@raven: Interesting article by Jim Webb on Bobby Garwood
Cassidy
@raven: Mostly right. They’re called COPs and an
OP is usually further forward off the COP or FOB.
A Fobbitt is a FOB dweller. Some people have jobs that require work to be done on FOBs but leave when necessary.Other people go out of their way to never leave the FOB; that’s a Fobbitt.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
Fucking Tweety. Our fucking liberal media. I just wish he’d go gargle with Clorox. I used to find him mildly amusing; now I change channels as soon as I hear his spittle-flecked anything-but-dulcet tones.
Heliopause
Can one of our military types please fill me in; somewhere in my life I got the idea that you couldn’t be a deserter until you were AWOL for some period of time. Don’t remember exactly what it was, 90 days or something like that. Anything to that, or am I just misremembering?
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: Nice story.
P.S. I love Sherrod Brown.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: Yes, it’s that Charlie Daniels.
SiubhanDuinne
@RaflW:
I am just devastated for them.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@The Dangerman: Korb was referring to the argument (one of them) made by ex-Bushie John Bellinger:
@SiubhanDuinne: Yeah, as I said in another thread, Daniels has become a hard core hater, a Birther and I think believes Obama is Muslim because of some confused ideas about genetics and religion. Someone told me he’s re-written “Uneasy Rider”, originally a song about a hippie-ish good ol’ boy almost getting in a bar fight because of his long hair, to the story of a good Xian boy accidentally wandering into a gay bar and barely getting out with his manly virtues in tact.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uneasy_Rider
Cassidy
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): It’s just the way their stories match and offer a cut dry “yup, he left” explanation. Reminds me of those guys who executed those prisoners in Iraq. Just sounds fishy to me.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Heliopause: Desertion is basically leaving with no intent of coming back. As a general rule, someone who doesn’t come back from leave or report for duty when required to is considered AWOL for the first 30 days.
pseudonymous in nc
@Hill Dweller:
An invisible bag of no hammers has a higher IQ than Marsha fucking Blackburn.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@The Dangerman: Korb was referring to the argument (one of them) made by ex-Bushie John Bellinger:
Indeed, it is likely that the U.S. would be required, as a matter of international law, to release them shortly after the end of 2014, when U.S. combat operations cease in Afghanistan. The Administration appears to have reached a defensible, hold-your-nose compromise by arranging, in exchange for the release of Sergeant Bergdahl, for the individuals to be held in Qatar for a year before they return to Afghanistan.
@SiubhanDuinne: Yeah, as I said in another thread, Daniels has become a hard core hater, a Birther and I think believes Obama is Muslim because of some confused ideas about genetics and religion. Someone told me he’s re-written “Uneasy Rider”, originally a song about a hippie-ish good ol’ boy almost getting in a bar fight because of his long hair, to the story of a good Xian boy accidentally wandering into a gay bar and barely getting out with his manly virtues in tact.
David Koch
BWD’s twitter feed has all wingnuts past tweets screaming Obama must bring Bergdahl home
twitter.com/theonlyadult/with_replies
It’s hilarious.
Cassidy
@Heliopause: Desertion is leaving with no intent to return. Once an SM goes AWOL, he’ll be AWOL for thirty days. After that he is DFR (dropped from rolls). Once he is returned, he may or may not be charged with desertion if they can prove he had no intention of coming back. That’s hard to prove. I was an escort for a court martial where the desertion charge was dropped because the guy made an attempt to turn himself in.
Mnemosyne
@TaMara (BHF):
Someone in another thread (and Botsplainer above) compared it to the Terri Schiavo case, and I’m hoping that may be accurate. Way too many people can picture themselves in the shoes of the Bergdahl family for them to be comfortable with the vilification of a POW.
Baud
@David Koch:
Chris Hayes had a segment on that also.
Cacti
The wingers’ treatment of Bergdahl is a degree of magnitude more loathsome than the swiftboating of Kerry.
Kerry was a public figure, had some experience with opponents saying not nice things about him, and his service had ended decades prior to his Presidential run.
Bergdahl is still suffering the physical, emotional, and psychological effects of being a prisoner of foreign belligerents for the past 5-years. He was nobody important or famous in his previous life, and is coming home to a hateful mob of right wingers, ready to take a giant dump on him.
I wonder how many death threats his parents have received so far.
peej
One report from the wider world…we are discussing this situation on a sports forum that I frequent (in the off-topic area).
My take on Bergdahl is that he was a terribly naive kid who should never have joined the army. Due to his upbringing, he had a weirdly romantic take on the world which was quickly disabused by his time in Afghanistan. I haven’t the foggiest idea whether or not he was deserting, or just went off in some quixotic quest to “help” the people of Afghanistan. However, I don’t think that going over to the Taliban as some are alleging was his goal anyway. The poor kid is going to be crucified before he even makes it back to the US.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Cassidy: Are there generally orders against leaving an OP while off-duty?
Hal
So what’s the deal on the 6 soldiers who reportedly died looking for Bergdahl? I’m seeing this on Facebook, but I thought that was in some dispute. I was arguing with my co-worker yesterday who informed me that the usa does not negotiate with terrorists, Bergdahl is a sleeper agent, because why else would they keep him alive, and the 5 taliban she doesn’t know from a hole in the wall are master terrorists.
Oh, and Obama should be shot in the face. But hey, terrorism!!
FlipYrWhig
@Cacti: Heehee, you said “document dump.”
WaterGirl
@peej: I could have written the first 3 sentences myself, and I don’t disagree with the other two sentences. These people attacking him make me sick.
Cacti
Per WaPo: Saxby Chambliss (R-chickenhawk) has confirmed from Senate briefing that the reports of Bergdahl leaving a note about his intention to desert are incorrect.
Who was the NYT’s source behind that particular fiction? Dick Cheney?
Cassidy
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Very specifically. You never leave the perimeter alone.
David Koch
Classic wingnutz
Matt Binder finds typical wingnut kook who repeatedly criticized Obama for not bringing home Bergdahl NOW criticizing Obama for bringing home Bergdahl
twitter.com/MattBinder/status/474267033216241664
Here’s one wingut specifically calling on her wingnut Senator to take the 5 for 1 deal, NOW she’s screaming that they took the 5 for 1 deal.
twitter.com/MattBinder/status/474286697807876098/photo/1
Patrick
@Hal:
Tell her that Bush and Petraeus negotiated with terrorists in Iraq (Moqhtada). Why was that OK?
Cacti
@Hal:
I was arguing with my co-worker yesterday who informed me that the usa does not negotiate with terrorists
Ask your co-worker what they think Iran-Contra was then.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Hal:NYT and HuffPo both have write-ups on the two, four, six, eight soldiers who died looking for Bergdahl. Here’s a clip from Pierce, because I haven’t paid for the NYT yet
Is your co-worker old enough to remember Iran-Contra?
FlipYrWhig
@Hal: Does it fall under “negotiating with terrorists” if you’re talking about, you know, soldiers, not civilians? Because it seems like the rules are quite different, even rhetorically. I thought the “you don’t negotiate with terrorists” cliché was intended to encompass situations with civilian hostages. If we’re talking about _soldiers_ as captives, and, on top of that, nominal “terrorists” who are actually the officially-designated enemy force, the catchphrase doesn’t even apply, because… it’s not for that scenario that the phrase was ever minted in the first place. Right?
David Koch
Matt Binder posting all the weak minded wingnut tweets (they were for the trade, before they were against the trade).
twitter.com/MattBinder/media
danimal
@Mnemosyne: This has all the marks of Republican overreach. It won’t be long before GOP leaders will be stammering and tripping over their own contemptible quotes.
They haven’t thought this through. Not all POWs/ hostages are captured under heroic circumstances. Do we need to prove heroism before repatriating them? Are foolish decisions enough to justify massive character assassination (especially without any due process)?
Their repulsive antics will, once again, repulse people. Funny how that works.
pseudonymous in nc
@dmsilev:
They should really have been clued about that when they brought in Mullah Charles Barkley.
FlipYrWhig
@pseudonymous in nc: Hey, hey, that’s turrible. Come on now.
D58826
ChickenHawk Gingricvh has now coined it the three ‘B’s’ Benghazi/Boko Haram/Berghdal. When Newtie shows up at the gates of Hell, even Satan will turn him away
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I pretty much knew that claim was going to come into question the minute I heard it announced so conclusively as “fact” and I’m sure you did, too.
I didn’t listen to news today. Were they still declaring it as fact? Incredible to listen to. Jesus. They’ll repeat anything they’re told.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Cassidy: That was my guess. If Bergdahl did slip out on his own he was violating that. That, however, is most I think with which anyone would be able to charge him with. any chance of success. And I don’t see the army bothering to do that.
Mnemosyne
@danimal:
I want to ask these supposed former squad members if the squad should take a vote before deciding whether or not to rescue someone who’s been captured. Do they really want their own rescue to be decided by a popularity contest?
Belafon
@peej: He’s already in San Antonio I believe.
dmsilev
@Mnemosyne: I think we should require all soldiers to be pre-screened as to whether or not they’re “worthy” of being rescued. Sarah Palin, John McCain, and three right-wing bloggers can sit on the selection committee.
Heliopause
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): @Cassidy:
Thanks.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I mean, come on. Pierce wrote that they’re ‘turning the yellow ribbon into a noose” and that’s exactly what they’re doing. Just the pile-on alone should be repellent. He has not had an opportunity to say one word in his own defense. He’s one person, and these celebrities in media with huge forums and powerful people like Senators are just savaging him.
This is nuts. It’s an angry mob.
Thoughtful David
@Patrick:
That ship sailed about the time he crashed his second airplane.
Kay
@Cacti:
They had to present both sides, fact and fiction, and just let the marketplace of ideas work the magic.
The truth will win! You don’t have any faith in markets.
Chyron HR
@dmsilev:
A panel to determine if people deserve death? I like it! But what can we call it?
David Koch
@Chyron HR: Derp Panels
Thoughtful David
@different-church-lady:
I’m down with the idea of giving them more rope. Thing is, we need to publicize it more. We need to have all of the split-screen quotes from heroes like McCain and Ollie North and Sarah Palin with their before/after, so people can see what hypocrites and bad human beings those people are.
David Koch
The Derp is strong with tis one.
Mike in NC
@Thoughtful David: John McCain, the guy who crashed five planes and almost sank his aircraft carrier. Yet a beloved elder statesman in the eyes of our rotten corporate media.
Citizen Alan
@SiubhanDuinne:
One of the great regrets of my life is that when Tweety came to Ole Miss for the Debate in 2008, I didn’t confront him in the Grove, hand him a bottle of orange juice, and explain to him that people who work for a living instead of sitting around like braying asses often drink it for breakfast instead of coffee, because the dumb SOB actually insinuated that Obama was elitist and out of touch for drinking OJ at a campaign stop.
David Koch
The cognitive dissonance among these people is astounding
twitter.com/gregpinelo/status/474284507890065408
beltane
@David Koch: Does this mean she wants the kidnapped schoolgirls rescued so they can be sent to Guantanamo for enhanced interrogation?
hueyplong
I will always resent the fact that the Obamas never put out a public health PSA in which they “arrogantly” forbid Murkins to enjoy mugs of Clorox.
Mike in NC
Some things we’ve learned this week (and it’s only Wednesday!):
(1) Rescuing of American service personnel overseas is entirely optional.
(2) Peak Wingnut may actually be something we will witness within about three months, to culminate in Obama’s impeachment. Lindsay Graham will lead the effort.
(3) The national media has dropped any pretense of not being totally in the tank for the Republican Party.
Kay
@SiubhanDuinne:
Sherrod Brown could be the official Senator of Balloon Juice. He has all your same interests :)
He and his wife have a dog. They love the dog, and they bring him to events in Ohio. I don’t pay that much attention to dog stories, so I was drifting off, but I think there was an original dog and then he died and this is the newer one.
He has a political name, like “Franklin” or “Delano” or “Roosevelt”
Kay
Who are the Senators from Idaho, by the way? Surely they are rushing to their constituent’s defense from this angry mob, right? Or did he go under the ‘ol Tea Party bus?
D58826
@Chyron HR: In order to qualify for this committee each prospective member has to answer one question – What do you want to President to do if its your family member held as a POW or hostage?
SatanicPanic
@Roger Moore: Slaves were worth more than all of the combined wealth of the North. They were worth trillions in today’s money. The southern economy absolutely collapsed because they couldn’t pay freedmen enough to work the fields. Both in the sense that it was economically unfeasible, but moreso because free blacks didn’t want to pick cotton- they preferred farming their own land. They went from having their entire economy based on free labor to having no labor at all. The war was a problem, but having their labor force basically refuse en masse to work was what killed their economy. It wasn’t until they managed to basically re-enslave free blacks through sharecropping that the economy got started again. I’m just finishing up Eric Foner’s Reconstruction right now so I’m feeling pretty confident in making this claim.
SiubhanDuinne
@Citizen Alan:
I remember that. Wish you had.
SiubhanDuinne
@Kay:
Awww. Such a cutie. And the dog’s not bad, either.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: Sherrod Brown is great. Ohio’s statewide office holders (Brown, John I-was-Paul-Ryan-when-Paul-Ryan-was-reading-Atlas-Shrugged-for-the-first-time Kasich, and the Salvation Army Donation of the Bush II White House that is Rob Portman, to say nothing of the shades of Blackwell and Cordray), gives Wisconsin’s (Tammy Baldwin, Scott Walker and Ron Johnson) a run for their money in the WTF sweepstakes.
Kay
@SiubhanDuinne:
His wife is great. They came here when he first ran for Senate and I was supposed to set up a public event. I was president of Friends of the Library (for life, because no one else would agree to please, please take this job) so we went to the library. They gave us about 2 hours notice and that was the only place I could be sure she’d be really welcomed. It’s a Republican town, but the library employees are all secret Democrats :)
It’d be different now, he’s a sitting Senator, and all the local Republicans meet with him but at the time he was considered “too liberal to win”.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Portman is really smart, though. I don’t think he wants to be President so he’s not a threat in that sense but in this state he behaves like a moderate. Trade is a big deal here and he’s joined with Brown there on several issues.
I went to a Lefty lawyer event the other night and they gave him an award for getting a federal grant to expand a successful program that re-integrates former inmates into the community. They want to take it statewide. He was the only Republican mentioned the whole night. I’m curious if he’ll get a Tea Party challenger when he’s up.
Roger Moore
@dmsilev:
Not good enough. These guys were screaming for him to be rescued before they were screaming about him being rescued. There’s not much you can do when they keep changing their minds about whether it’s a good idea to save the guy.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: I haven’t studied Portman closely, but two things that drive me nuts about his media coverage: He voted against several pieces of gay rights legislation after his son came out to him but before the public announcement- I guess it’s not unreasonable that it took him some time to adjust and he did the mostly right thing eventually, but all the news stories were so fawning about his courage and compassion as a father; second was Andrea Mitchell of ETL- MSNBC introducing him as a “fiscal conservative”. Bush’s budget director. Again, not really his fault that term means nothing anymore, and Mrs Greenspan is member of the galloping herd. And he’s got the personality of a bowl of oatmeal. His eeyorish persona made him, IMHO, one of Romney’s worst surrogates.
Svensker
@SiubhanDuinne:
That was really lovely. Thank you. For some reason, this story has me almost in tears. Maybe because my own son is about Bowe’s age? I don’t know. But it is deeply distressing, this awful hatefulness.
Villago Delenda Est
@D58826: Here’s a preview of Newt and Callista at the gates of Hell.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Villago Delenda Est: They seem to have creepy half-smiles. Also, Newt needs to find someone who can cut his trousers to a proper length; look at the miles of fabric around his ankles.
Matt McIrvin
I always thought those POW/MIA flags they fly everywhere were a bit weird and obsessive (originally based on myths of living Vietnam POWs who probably didn’t exist), but I also thought they were sincere.
I know now that they mean nothing.
Matt McIrvin
@TaMara (BHF): I have a cousin who’s complained on FB about Obama rescuing Bergdahl. I have a different cousin whose husband is serving. Not sure I want to pick a fight, but wondering what she’s thinking.
pseudonymous in nc
@Kay:
The senators from Idaho have jobs for life barring incidents in airport toilets. They don’t need to represent their constituents, they just weigh the votes and head off to DC.
ralphb
I’m gonna predict near Schiavo level damage to the GOP before the coming weekend is over.
JaneE
If President Romney had emptied Gitmo to free Bergdahl, he would have been a heroic POW. Because the black guy did it, he is a traitor. And by the way, the GOP wants to tell all you soldiers on the front lines, if you get captured, there is a really good possibility that you will still be a POW 30 years from now, because we don’t actually fight sovereign states much anymore and we don’t negotiate with terrorists, so too bad for you.
karen
@Elizabelle:
f
No. That would mean they’d be cheated out of shooting him themselves.
NorthLeft12
@Patrick: I live in Canada, just east of Michigan along the St. Clair River. For years I have marveled at the rivalry between the University of Michigan and Michigan State University in athletics to the point where a large number of those fans are happier if BOTH teams lose, rather than both teams winning.
I consider myself a supporter of both teams and when I ask fans of either why they would not be happy if a Michigan based team won, they look at me like I am insane. Seems to be the same mindset here.
Paul in KY
@Kay: I guess by the standards of modern wingnuttia, they are ‘supporting’ him by not going on TV & calling for his execution.
Redleg
The real irony is that many of these wingnuts were the biggest cheerleader for the wars but didn’t have the courage to enlist and fight for their county. At least Bergdahl gave it a try.