This is pretty much the perfect story and really hits my sweet spot:
A man arguing with his wife and threatening to shoot a family dog early Tuesday accidentally shot himself in the face and died, Pinellas Park police said.
Paramedics tried to treat Dennis Eugene Emery, 57, but he was declared dead at the scene.
Authorities said Emery was arguing with his wife, Francisca, in their home at 5271 87th Ave. N about 6 a.m. Emery was upset because he could not find his lighter, police said.
He picked up a revolver and threatened to shoot the dog, pulling back the hammer on the gun to emphasize his threat, police said. Later, as he tried to release the hammer, the gun fired while Emery had it pointed at his face.
Emery has had 34 contacts with Pinellas Park police since 2012, the department said. He recently was arrested three times in six days: Oct. 12 for domestic battery; Oct. 15 on charges of aggravated assault and resisting arrest; and Oct. 17 on a charge of leaving the scene of a crash. Those cases were pending at the time of his death.
I’m struggling to see a downside to any of this.
Pogonip
So is Mrs. Emery.
aimai
Well, I feel better already. Sic Semper Ammosexuals.
John
@Pogonip: so is the dog.
Kevin
Honestly, this guy sounds like a cartoon villain. Good riddance.
Eric U.
#thatsashame
shelley
Downside? How easily he could have murdered his wife and dog. Arrested 3 times in six days? Why wasn’t his ass sitting in jail?
MattF
He stood his ground, but the bullet had the final word.
ETA: The gun was stuck, so he looks down the barrel to see what’s wrong. Finds out what’s wrong.
RepubAnon
This time, the abuser with a gun shot the abuser with a gun. However, note the history:
This gets into the “well-regulated militia” part of the Second Amendment. When someone’s been arrested three times in six days, perhaps the police should have the ability to remove all the firearms from the house pending a hearing as to whether that particular gun owner can be trusted to handle firearms safely and responsibly. After all, it’s only dumb luck that we’re not reading about a dead dog, spouse, and possibly a few police officers as well as a dead abuser.
wasabi gasp
The juxtaposition of your introduction and the first line of the article really threw me for a loop.
Trinity
Karma is real.
azlib
This guy clearly had some serious mental issues and maybe a bit of a death wish. Looking down the barrel of a loaded gun?!? WTF! I wonder if his wife or the dog encouraged him to take a peek down that barrel.
drainflake77
no doubt Scott et al frantically crafting legislation to preserve Emerys right to posthumously vote in ’16
alce_e _ ardilla
On the downside, it will be a bitch to clean the carpet
MattF
@azlib: I’d guess the thought occurred to the dog.
Elizabelle
The late Mr. Emery performed a public service homicide.
On himself.
The dog and wife and all of us are in a far better world now. Yeehaw!
LosGatosCA
I blame Obama.
Certainly sometime around the 25th arrest it should have been obvious that the guy needed to have a drink at the White House. with Obama.
Also, too, Obama never said one good thing about this shooter? No wonder it ended badly for the shooter.
Obama hates peoples who owns guns.
bemused
@Pogonip:
Hopefully Mrs. Emery will run in the opposite direction before getting involved with any Mr. Emery clones in the future.
NotMax
Three things which never, never brighten my day:
Stupidity
Violence
Death
YMMV.
Comrade Dread
The downside is that a human being came to be that angry, unstable, and despicable and it was still perfectly legal for him to purchase a lethal weapon.
p.a.
Dogs are so loyal it’ll probably miss him no matter what he was like.
Tokyokie
@MattF: Elmer Fudd used to do that all the time and only suffer a blackened face.
satby
@Trinity: Yeah, I was going to say that sometimes we actually see karma do it’s thing. Sooner or later.
Mustang Bobby
I think the dog now believes there is a god.
satby
@NotMax: @Comrade Dread: True. Doesn’t brighten my day either, but at least the only being this obvious rageaholic took out was himself this time.
Mike in NC
We’re sitting here at friends’ place in Tampa Bay waiting for a plumber to come fix the garbage disposal that broke on Thanksgiving night. Talk about timing. He’s due between 11 AM and 2 PM. Where we live you’d get a window from between 9 AM and 9 PM, and you’d be lucky if he showed up at all.
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
@MattF: Wile E. Coyote’d it, did he?
feebog
Trying to think of something clever to say, but I got nothin’. I will observe that once again this is Florida; they seem to get more than their fair share of stories like this.
geg6
Heh. One less asshole in the world.
In news about my world, my wingnut FB friend is screaming about how violence and property damage are not what America was founded upon. LOL, and she proudly calls herself a Tea Partier! The stupid, it burns!
mellowjohn
because it never gets old. all hail Rocky Mountain Mike…
http://youtu.be/XTGmTrQXrwg
p.s. i’m struggling to see who the “good guy with a gun” is here. perhaps wayne lapierre will weigh in with a comment.
Chris
@Kevin:
More like the cartoon comic relief in a throwaway scene. Think Edgar from Men In Black.
“Place projectile weapon on the ground.”
“You can have my gun, when you pry it from my cold, dead, fingers!”
“Your proposal is acceptable.”
Roy Greene
troglodytes {not to insult cave dwellers} with guns is deadly and often times fatal, sadly it is always not he that dies, as in this fine example. He will no longer be a burden to areas domestic tranquility.
Unabogie
This story is impossible to believe. I have it on good authority from Rudy Giuliani that only black people kill people.
JGabriel
mellowjohn:
The guy who sold him the bullet?
Ella in New Mexico
@RepubAnon:
The Violence Against Women Act did, in fact, encourage the passage of laws in which people like this guy could have their guns taken away. Some states did just that. But thanks to the gun lobby, few places in the US passed them, and even then, they were often at the discretion of judges and required officers to make a special effort to ask said judges for the relief.
And don’t forget, we’re talking about Florida here. This guy is a hero to most people– You know who is still allowed to roam free harassing innocent people on the highway and stalking them in the parking lot of their place of work. I can’t imagine they’d want to deny THIS asshole his 2nd amendment rights.
Meanwhile, at least we can all sleep well knowing that elsewhere in America, law and order was restored by the gunning down of a mouthy unarmed teenager who didn’t get out of the road fast enough. Thank God we know what we’re doing in this country.
MikeInSewickley
I’m beginning to think that the only way to get rid of the ammosexual climate is convince one person at a time.
This sounds like a great start.
JGabriel
Emery was clearly an asshat who deserves no pity, which – ironically – kind of makes me feel sorry for him. I mean, accidentally killing yourself after threatening everyone else around you? That some world-class asshattery, right there. Violent and a spaz.
J.D. Rhoades
Live by the gun, die by the gun.
ShadeTail
@Tokyokie: Daffy Duck got his beak blown off once or twice.
West of the Cascades
Ah, another “Florida man ….” story.
ET
A nominee for the Darwin Awards (along with that stupid woman in Missouri who bough a gun and accidentally killed herself)…….
The only downside is that the wife now has that image in her head. Of course that is balanced that this looser is now physically out of her life.
Kathleen
@shelley: I’m assuming he is (was) white, aka as “The Universal Stay Out Of Jauil Free Card” in ‘Murica today.
Also, too, John Cole, I am chortling with delight right along side of you, in a virtual, platonic sort of way of course.
Villago Delenda Est
@RepubAnon: It’s Florida. Of course they didn’t do any of that. The stupid motherfuckers reelected Rick Scott.
Tokyokie
@ShadeTail: Or rotated to the back of his head.
beth
During the South Carolina governor debate, Nikki Haley was asked whether people arrested for domestic violence should have their guns taken away. She hemmed and hawed and blathered about how important the 2nd amendment was and how she’d rather see women able to defend themselves or find shelter rather than taking away peoples’ guns. This is the position of the right and there’s nothing that will change their minds. Guns are more important than people. It really blew me away to see it stated so blatantly.
Zandar
Darwinian stimulus.
Brutally Darwinian response.
Amir Khalid
There seems to be a pattern of incidents with shorter and shorter intervals between them. So, what happened to him two years ago? Some kind of progressive dementia?
aimai
@Amir Khalid: Well…its not progressive dementia. More like conservative.
Mike in NC
@beth: Nikki Haley has been photographed more than once lovingly fondling an assault rifle. That’s just how these GOP pols roll.
PaulW
downside is that the NRA is gonna argue the dog needed to arm himself.
MattF
@Amir Khalid: The article doesn’t say anything about his drinking habits, but I’d put some chips on ‘drunk’.
Mandalay
@Ella in New Mexico:
Please don’t misrepresent “a few people in Florida” with “most people in Florida”. Most of us do not feel that way.
Offensive stereotypes about blacks or gays or the poor are justly shredded on BJ, and stereotyping how “most” people feel in a state of about 20 million people feel is equally ridiculous.
Gretchen
@alce_e _ ardilla: @p.a.: he was probably the wife’s dog so he won’ t miss the guy. Too bad about the carpet though.
Ruckus
@beth:
Yes. Never fix the problem, just paint over it. Even Rube Goldberg contraptions solved something. Always in a round about fashion but solved the problem. With guns there is no solution, just BS about how it has to be easy for anyone to kill.
But then all conservative positions are like this. Never fix an issue, just paint over it. To me it is the most frustrating, this never looking for a solution. They understand problems, but not one brain cell shall be devoted to solving them.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mandalay: They reelected Rick Scott.
Case closed.
Villago Delenda Est
@Ruckus: The important thing is the product of the merchants of death is being moved.
Nothing else matters.
PsiFighter37
OT, but what really brightens my day is the new Star War trailer. I hated the disposal of the EU, but then you see live-action footage and you feel like a little kid again.
Villago Delenda Est
@JGabriel:
Yup, one of the NRA’s paymasters. The good guys.
The Other Chuck
I’ll tell you what doesn’t brighten my day: watching someone gloat over the death of a mentally unhinged person. Seriously, that’s republican levels of soullessness there.
Mandalay
@Villago Delenda Est:
No. Not case closed.
WTF does that have to do with someone claiming that the guy in the OP who threatened to kill the family dog was “a hero to most people” in Florida?
Amir Khalid
@The Other Chuck:
This.
jayboat
There was a picture of the guy in one of the local articles on this…
if I was a betting man, one second after seeing his photo I would bet the ranch on meth.
That’s prolly wha hahappened 2 years ago, and about 6 days ago he received a new batch of the ‘killer’ stuff from his guy. (pun intended)
Even without the photo, think about what kind of individual goes into a blind rage because they can’t find their lighter?
Citizen_X
@The Other Chuck: Sorry, but: one funeral at a time. That’s how progress is made.
This guy just made his own funeral come a little early, is all.
Sherparick
@NotMax: I guess you don’t appreciate “the Darwin Awards.” Or for that matter Ambrose Bierce, H.L. Mencken, and Mark Twain. http://www.shmoop.com/huckleberry-finn/pap.html
Listen, we are all capable of being assholes and find it at times tempting to go down that path unless we remain conscious about it. When a human has got themselves well down the asshole path and playing with firearms, I find it brings a smile to my face when they just blow off their face, and no another’s face.
Liberty60
Sorry to be repetitive but I’m going to bang this drum everytime there is a gun related thread-
Why is there such a thing as a right to own a firearm?
Why can’t we move towards viewing guns like cars, as an inherently dangerous device which is a privilege, not a right?
I’m tired of always having to cede that ground, before we can even discuss gun control.
JGabriel
@Villago Delenda Est:
Hmm. I see you point.
FlipYrWhig
@Liberty60: um, the Constitution? I mean, it’s a particularly stupid part of the Constitution, but there it is. Good luck amending it.
Mandalay
@The Other Chuck:
I’m with you almost all the way, apart from your use of the word “someone”. There are plenty of folks on this thread gloating over the death; not just the OP.
gbear
I’m kind of rooting for injuries to criminals today. I realized last night that my side street is being used as a transfer/purchase site for drugs. Watched three transactions between 7:30 and 10:30. I called the cops but they referred me to the narcotics unit which is out until monday, although I did see an unmarked squad car pass by after the last deal. I’d like to nip this one in the bud quickly.
voncey
@ET: i’m sure this guy doesn’t believe in evolution but Darwin sure had the last laugh here.
dance around in your bones
@jayboat:
Uh – maybe a guy who wants to smoke some meth with it? It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
NotMax
@Sherparick
That’s a leap worthy of Evel Knievel.
muddy
I hope the woman writes in to Guns and Ammo to tell the tale of how a gun saved her life that night.
Villago Delenda Est
@Liberty60: “A highly mobile and well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to breed, keep and ride horses, shall not be infringed.”
The basis for the right to own a Formula One automobile and drive it anywhere there’s pavement, right there.
Soonergrunt
@geg6: Did you ask her about the violence inflicted upon His Majesty’s Army and the property damage inflicted upon His Majesty’s Loyalists?
FlipYrWhig
@Soonergrunt: not to mention the violence inflicted on the indigenous peoples of the continent.
Liberty60
@FlipYrWhig:
Sure, there isn’t any chance of an amendment anytime soon.
But the idea is to begin the discussion- why should we accept the NRA framing of the issue?
The Constitution isn’t some holy writ. We can openly question it and suggest changes. Conservatives do it all the time, what with human life amendments and rejection of birthright citizenship.
20 years ago same sex marriage seemed ludicrous- but here we are.
Open question for everyone here- what IS the moral logic underpinning a “right” to own a firearm, even absent a demonstrated need?
What would be the injustice in regulating them like cars?
Villago Delenda Est
@Mandalay: For the non-osmium challenged, it means that Florida has a reputation for shit like this for a reason. They elected and reelected the felon Scott. This means a majority of the voters in Florida (‘most”) are fuckheads.
You can’t escape reality like that. Florida has earned its reputation as a festering shithole of reactionary dipshits. Sorry that you’re living in such a place, hope that you can change it, but that is, as Uncle Walter once intoned, the way it is.
Villago Delenda Est
@geg6: She is aware that the original Tea Party in Boston attacked not the Crown’s property, but the property of a Crown chartered monopoly corporation?
Right? She knows this, right? That the Tea Party attacked what Mitt Romney would call “people, too!”
Elie
What a terrible post! I know “the bright side” is snark, but shit, John things aren’t bad enough that we have to be reminded again how dark the human spirit can get? Please —
Every holiday and most regular days, sick folks like this torment people’s lives. When they are gone — however, without hurting anything or anyone else — its ok… not great — its doesnt expunge the horror and tragedy of having a person like that around us…
How about swapping favorite stuffing recipes? More fun and very little down sides
Mnemosyne
@gbear:
Without endangering yourself, is there any way to install a bright motion-sensor light that turns on whenever someone goes into that area? Generally speaking, criminals are reluctant to do business in a well-lit area, especially one where the light only goes on when they enter it. It would probably only shuffle the business down the street to be someone else’s problem, but it would at least be something.
FlipYrWhig
@Liberty60: If it weren’t in the Constitution, guns would be subject to other, normal rules about dangerous items, yes. But that’s 325 years of toothpaste you’re trying to put back in the tube, dating back to William and Mary and the debate over “standing armies” and the rights of “the people” to resist “the government” in the Anglophone world.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Liberty60:
As I understand it, up until 2008’s DC v. Heller the Supreme Court didn’t rule that the 2nd Amendment meant that there was an “individual” right to own a weapon. The 2nd Amendment was generally interpreted (though not explicitly as I understand it) in terms of a state militia.
The Supreme Court could say, “whoops – we were wrong” and there could be more severe restrictions on gun ownership without a constitutional amendment. And there is wiggle-room in the decision for “reasonable restrictions”. But good luck with that as long as the 4.95 troglodytes are on the Court.
:-(
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Bill Murray
@FlipYrWhig: I think you mean a recently reinterpreted part of the Constitution that overturned the interpretation that went back to the writing of the Constitution
FlipYrWhig
@Bill Murray: Fair enough, but the reason why people talk about guns in terms of rights instead of something else is that the Constitution explicitly does that. We’re stuck talking about rights until that part of the Constitution goes away. And the reason why anything about guns and rights was ever in the Constitution in the first place is because of the huge debate over the right to resist the government that came to a crescendo in the English-speaking world in the mid-to-late 17th century.
Quaker in a Basement
Downside? Somewhere a police sergeant is going to have to find another way to keep a couple of his officers busy.
FlipYrWhig
@Bill Murray: IOW, whether it’s “the people’s” rights or individuals’ rights, it’s still rights that are explicitly at issue. Liberty60 was asking why the discussion has to start with rights. I agree that it’s a weirdly specific thing to frame in terms of rights (there’s no right to food or sleep or clothing, all much more basic than gun usage) but it was a snafu 300+ years in the making.
Tone in DC
No crocodile tears for that recidivist, abusive gashole. I feel bad for the widow and the canine.
There are some people out here who are just a waste of space. Not that many, in my opinion, but they seem to do a lot of damage while they are around.
Liberty60
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
IMO, the place we start isn’t niggling the intricacies of Constitutional law- thats an invitation to pedants and wanna-be Scalias to shout us down. It assumes the basic point, that there is an inherent human right to own a deadly weapon.
We start by getting people to imagine a different reality- to conjure up an image of a society in which guns ARE regulated just like a car. And to craft that image as being reasonable, sensible, and non-threatening.
Again- if we woke up tomorrow and lived in such a place- would anyone here believe that would be an unjust society?
I’m betting that most Americans only accept the right to a gun as an unquestioned assumption, something they never really examine.
Hawes
It’s heartwarming stories like these that make the holidays bright….
Mandalay
@Villago Delenda Est:
You are changing the subject and ducking the issue again.
The poster claimed that the dead man in the OP “is a hero to most people” in Florida. Not only is that complete fucking bullshit, but it is engaging in moronic gutter sterotyping. You can’t just pick some incident of bad and crazy behavior, and then allege that the person involved “is a hero to most people” in that state.
A thread on BJ about gun owners is not so different to a wingnut thread on black men. The target is different, but the levels of stupidity, intolerance and hatred on display are pretty much the same.
jharp
How in the fuck is a man like that allowed to own a firearm?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Liberty60:
Sure, moral suasion arguments are fine and have their place.
They don’t work, though, with people who were brought up with different moral backgrounds. People who are convinced that they’re reasonable in wanting to have a bunch of semi-automatic pistols in their homes, loaded and at the ready, to “protect their family” (generally) aren’t going to be persuaded by statistics and your reasonable arguments. They’ll say, “If you don’t want guns, don’t buy one. But don’t break the Constitution in telling me what I can and cannot do!” They have a different background and way of thinking about the issue. And when the current interpretation of the Constitution supports their side, then you’re not going to see guns regulated like cars.
Both approaches – the moral suasion and the legalistic – have their place. The quickest, though not perhaps the most long-lasting (given recent history), is to get the interpretation of the law right.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
D58826
@Comrade Dread:And the downside is that no matter how despicable this man was he was still a human being. A society that has no problem legalizing 300 million guns seems unable to intervene to prevent these types of tragedy’s.
In a somewhat related article there is a list of the number of teens shot by the police (16) just since the M. Brown shooting. Several of the shootings involved obviously disturbed young people. Our society can figure out ways to provide the police with tanks but not with ways to subdue a mentally ill person without killing them.
Splitting Image
@Liberty60:
The U.S. constitution doesn’t actually say anything about firearms. The second amendment only refers to “arms” as a general term, which at the time still meant swords more often than guns.
The right to carry a weapon (outside of wartime) was a privilege of nobility in Europe, and when the U.S. founders tried to eliminate that privilege, they found themselves asking whether to give the right to everyone or to no one. The deciding factor was the colonies’ then-necessary dependence on militias.
Hence: “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
Mike J
For everybody discussing Darwin, I’d like to point out that we don’t know if this guy had kids or not. He was 57, so past prime reproductive years anyway. Darwin only applies when it happens before you can reproduce.
Amir Khalid
@Splitting Image:
So the Second Amendment gives citizens a right to keep and bear arms, not necessarily firearms, because the state may have occasion to call them up into a well-regulated ad hoc group for a security operation.
How did the meaning of “well-regulated militia” make the shift in the popular culture from a group of armed citizens under state command, to any self-appointed group? To me, the latter is the high road to rule by warlords.
Another Holocene Human
Well, I couldn’t sleep well last night. Wondering if all the home garden jalapenos (it’s a little balcony, but the plants just kept blooming) I ate before bed gave me insomnia. Now I’ve already disappointed my friends because I’m not getting an early move on to see them in Orlando. I may miss the Walmart protests but the call went out just to do pix on social media, might be able to still pull that off. Phone is phucking up though.
Thinking really hard about going on medication for my mood disorder. Is it possible to keep running a volunteer organization and be on that stuff or do you just zonk out? I don’t want to get stoned. But being sad or anxious all the time is not working for me.
geg6
@Soonergrunt:
Oh yes. Pointed out that Sam Adams and John Hancock, among others, would beg to differ with her. She didn’t catch that I was referencing that they were Boston Tea Party leaders who had no compunction in destroying property or tar and feathering agents of the crown. She just said that I would sing a different tune if they were still around today. Has no clue. It’s not even sporting to fuck with her at this point. She’d be outmatched by my dog.
trollhattan
The Tree of Idiocy must be watered with the blood of idiots. Well done, Florida Man.
Splitting Image
@Amir Khalid:
The short answer is slavery. Black slaves were prohibited from keeping and bearing arms for obvious reasons, and the U.S. wasn’t really in danger of invasion after the English were sent packing, so the focus of militias (especially among Southern whites) moved from fending off an invasion to keeping the lower classes in line. Once it went there, it stayed there.
Corner Stone
Good Lord. This post is still Top O’ Page?
Another Holocene Human
I’ve been working on my littler bro who has been mainlining libertarian legal derp. He’s in sciences so he thinks these are reasonable arguments. I laid some truth on him but I felt worse and worse because I realized this stuff is out there and he was buying it and if he were, so was a lot of other people.
Just like this 2nd amendment revisionist history. Right? The SCOTUS signed onto that shit. And the NRA keeps pushing. Same thing with ICC, right? Roberts wants to take that out. IDK why we were talking about but I finally lost it and was like, you know this civilization thing, right? You realize we had the first Constitution in the world and it was a fuck up? You like having one big country? That was the ICC! The railroads! One big market! Hello? And I knew it was all second hand because he was talking about Earl Warren without realizing he was talking about Earl Warren, he just placed those post Civil War amendments in the 1950s. I laid it on him. I’m like, okay, you say that, but do you realize that the SCOTUS ruled that interstate bus and rail stations could not be segregated decades earlier. I told him about the Freedom Rides. I found out he’d never seen Eyes on the Prize. Fuck you PBS for charging a jillion dollars for your videos. Without something like that, how is a white kid supposed to know about these things? We’re creating a generation of ignorance.
I guess my brother felt uncomfortable too because he apologized … so did I … I know I was overbearing and didn’t like it. But man I hate lies. He was all “both sides do it”, I said if you have the truth and somebody else has bought into lies and has a need to believe them, that person will defend the lies as if they were the truth. I told my brother about Dim Jim Hoft and how the lies he told got on television. “Oh, I didn’t know about that.” But yet he’s convinced that nobody can know the truth of what happened in Ferguson. Hello, you are coming across white supremacist lies retold as “facts”.
FlipYrWhig
@Amir Khalid: I think it’s supposed to be irony: something like the “Michigan Militia” is saying “we’re the REAL people’s army.” But also the word “militia” is complex, and sometimes in the era of the drafting of the Constitution seems to mean something like “the whole body of the people, armed.” Then other times it means “the non-standing-army that each state can muster up to manage emergencies, insurrections, and Indian attacks.”
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Amir Khalid:
I’m no expert, but the little reading I’ve done indicates it’s complicated.
E.g. State Constitutions:
The 2nd Amendment was ratified in 1791.
It’s clear that some of the people writing these various Constitutions thought the right to bear arms involved collective defense only, and some thought it applied to individuals as well.
It’s also interesting that it was often framed in terms of the dangers of a standing army. It would be fun to see how Scalia et al. would react to a claim that the 2nd Amendment was moot because we now have a standing Army…
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@geg6:
If one listen’s carefully they can hear Samuel Adams laughing from his grave.
Another Holocene Human
@Splitting Image: Partly true, the derp went national as a reaction to desegregation of the public schools. And housing. Ironically, outside of the South Wilson had created segregation. It was a fuel to a lot of the “spontaneous” race rioting (mostly whites attacking blacks, so the word “race riot” is a lie) that happened in the 1920s. Some places, like Boston, were de facto segregated since forever anyway (not just by race), but that wasn’t true in Detroit, in California. But those were the facts on the ground in the 1950s, huge new housing had been built, and so there’s enormous reaction.
The reactionaries took over the NRA in an organizational coup and has been speaking to white flighter anxieties ever since.
Another Holocene Human
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Did the cops ever catch the fools who witnesses said were very organized, running from location to location setting fires?
Or were they working for the cops?
Another Holocene Human
@FlipYrWhig: The history of militias and the failure of militias is kind of interesting.
And tying it all to slavery is oversimplifying. Notwithstanding, we can all see the racial element to it today.
Amir Khalid
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Does the US Constitution actually forbid a standing military? If so, could an American sue the Federal Government, in theory anyway, for maintaining one?
Corner Stone
Well Hell, since I guess we’re working the theme of all-day posts, one from Atrios this morning:
U.S. seeks to build lean Iraqi force to fight the Islamic State
“At their peak, Iraqi combat forces, painstakingly built and paid for by the United States during the last Iraq war, numbered about 400,000 troops. By the time the Islamist militant group launched its advance across northern Iraq in June, the Iraqi forces had shrunk by as much as half, depleted by years of corruption, absenteeism and decay.”
Corner Stone
@Another Holocene Human:
It’s a little much at this point to think they were Red Squads.
Amir Khalid
@Corner Stone:
If they don’t wanna, you can’t make ’em.
Jasmine Bleach
@NotMax:
Sorry, I’m with John. Brightens my day.
I just don’t get this feeling bad some people have wrt death. Everybody dies. Everyone.
Some violent jerk with domestic violence (and other) arrests accidentally takes his own life with his own firearm when he was about to kill a dog and, who knows, maybe his spouse? Yeah, I’m not feeling conflicted about that. Good that he’s outta here before doing more evil and damage in the world. The world’s a better place because of it.
I guess I’m a “glass half full” type of person.
Another Holocene Human
@Splitting Image:
It sounds good but I wonder if it was really interpreted that way in context. Prior to the Meiji restoration the Samurai class had the right to carry weapons in public–and to use them. That was taken away during the modernization. Modernization was heavily influenced by British, German, French, and American norms. And the US had moved to relying on professional armies because the militia system did not work. By this time and for decades ever after state governments had a free hand regulating access to weapons and carrying them in public. Other Western countries did the same. Whether you were in Cologne or Chicago, you were going to jail if you got caught with brass knuckles in your pocket or a six inch knife.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Amir Khalid: Nope, it’s not forbidden. I was being snarky. There is lots of language in the Constitution about the militia and the army, and laws about them have changed over time.
I was alluding to the disconnect between the arguments about the “original intent” of the framers in writing the Bill of Rights and the reality we face now. Similarly, the 3rd Amendment was obviously a big deal in the late 18th century, now – nobody cares.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Amir Khalid:
In a manner of speaking. The Constitution says that Congress can’t fund the military more than two years at a time. In other words, Congress effectively has to reauthorize the military at least every two years.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Another Holocene Human: Depends on the medication and how appropriately it’s prescribed. Something for which a psychiatrist is required to get it right, rather than a family physician. For reasons I could explain in some detail, but only on request.
Disclaimer: I am not a physician but I work regularly with a mood disorders center.
Another Holocene Human
Note that disarming street toughs became a police and state obsession across the Western world because of the rise of socialist/union/anarchist movements and the fear of labor or political unrest. They were looking for weapons, bombs, etc. (At the same time, police and Pinkertons were shooting at strikers and killing them with no consequences.)
Proletarians having weapons during the Industrial era was an obsession of governments and right wingers.
There are a million derpy FB memes about Hitler taking yer gunz, but what really happened is that prior to state elections, Brownshirts deliberately provoked and engaged in pitched street battles with Socialists and Communists. The Nazis ramped up the fear and then ran on law and order. It worked in NE Germany and they swept the elections (they lost in a lot of other elections). This has been carefully documented. Brownshirts were obtaining and using all kinds of weapons that were illegal to carry. (Mostly heavy metal implements to put a killing on somebody in a fist fight.) This is prior to the coup by which Hitler took power on the federal level.
Doug r
@Liberty60: its not a right to own a firearm its a right to own a firearm in a militia
Another Holocene Human
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Crud, I’m interested, but I don’t have a good burner email account. Could you post a link to a pastebin if you don’t want to post here?
Another Holocene Human
@Doug r: It says “bear” not “own”, if the class argument is solid it just means a right to be a soldier instead of being excluded, note the choice made when the Union mustered a colored regiment. (A big fuck you to Roger Taney? They did muster just south of Boston, not too far from the riot outside the federal courthouse when Dred Scott was decided.)
AND NO, THE CONFEDERACY DID NOT HAVE SLAVE SOLDIERS. Servants, sometimes, and that’s all.
divF
Jackson wrote this is in a dissent from a decision to apply First Amendment rules to a crazy man who purportedly incited a riot. Other statements of this sort go back to Jefferson. I would like to see this reasoning applied to the Second Amendment. When it was written and ratified, the possibility of “arms” that give a single individual the capability to kill hundreds did not exist.
scav
Mandalay is soooooo sensitive to painting with an overbroad brush of Flooorrrrr-ida because she’s there, but is nevertheless pretty free with the paint-roller when it comes to all members of BJ when she felels she’s being insuffiently agreed with.
Another Holocene Human
@divF: It’s all about whose suicide, not suicide but a homicide. There seem to be real limits in this country to what can even be banned in terms of speech that is intended to incite others to violence or to cause someone to kill themselves. The powerful never suffer from these laws. It’s a choice who will suffer … women fleeing homicidal exes, whole communities being terrorized by RW terrorist organizations … apparently now even opposition political leaders when FOX starts whistling to all the schizophrenic paranoiacs with ga-ga-gunzzz in the audience. It’s astounding all the threats and incitements which are not criminal. (Of course, if you look wrong at–in the imagination of–a cop, you can be shot on sight. No recourse.)
The rulers of this country do not live in fear.
Another Holocene Human
@scav: I’m in Florida. You’d have to be blind to miss the derp.
I was talking to an IHOP waitress Thurs morning. She doesn’t get Thanksgiving off. No holiday pay. I told her you need a union. Florida doesn’t have nice little labor laws like other states. I said it’s not about private sector or public sector, they don’t give you ANYTHING you don’t have in a contract.
This place is corrupt as hell. It is still the plantation. Ohio may suck balls (for one example) but it can’t lay a finger on Florida. Alabama and SC want to top us. Texas for gunzzz. AZ for hate. This is a derpy place. Own it.
divF
@Another Holocene Human:
Actually, I think that the problem is that they do live in fear. The powerful know that they are vastly outnumbered, and believe that dividing the rest of us into warring tribes is the only way they can stay safe.
I’m willing to be that the Koch family has topnotch personal security.
Mnemosyne
@Another Holocene Human:
As BellaQ said, it really depends on the specific medication and your individual brain chemistry, which is why it’s best to work with a psychiatrist rather than depend on a general practitioner. I was lucky that my therapist referred me to a psychiatrist who was a frickin’ genius at prescribing — after a pretty detailed discussion, he gave me Wellbutrin on the first try, which turned out to be the right one to give someone with undiagnosed ADHD. But if you have any personal history/family history of seizure disorders, or a personal history of alcoholism or eating disorders, you should run far away from Wellbutrin, because it can trigger seizures. (I think someone here on the boards said he ended up with that side effect and had to cut his dose way down.)
They’ll also need to check you out and make sure that your problem actually is depression and not, say, mild bipolar disorder. Again, that’s something that a good psychiatrist can do but a general practitioner may not.
You’ll need to think of it as a process and be willing to give things a fair trial. If a medication makes you feel like a zombie or totally detached from your emotions, it’s the wrong medication and you need to ask your doctor to give you something different. There are a lot of different ones out there, so there’s no reason to stick with something that doesn’t work for your particular brain chemistry.
Gravenstone
The downside is obvious, that it didn’t happen long, long ago. Would have saved lots of folks trouble from the sound of the guy.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Another Holocene Human: I don’t have an issue with posting here (keep in mind I am not a physician and this is not medical advice). It will likely bore the snot out of everyone but you, but this is a very old thread, so here goes.
Mood disorders span a spectrum that includes dysthymic disorder (kind of a low grade depression), major depressive disorder, to cyclothymic disorder (kind of a low grade bipolar disorder) and bipolar disorder I and II (the numbers reflect the intensity of the manic episodes).
Many (most current) antidepressants are not at all sedating, but they affect different neurotransmitters and thus have different efficacy and side effect profiles, which will also be affected by individual metabolism differences based on genomic arrays. Thus selection and monitoring of medication choice is complex and often beyond the expertise of a general practice physician. Many PhDs and MSW/LISWs have good working relationships with psychiatrists for the fine distinctions of diagnosis and medication management.
An enormous issue is with diagnosis, for everything except possibly dysthymic disorder. People tend to seek treatment when they are low or depressed as opposed to when they are “up,” and if the mania is such that it does not present legal problems or serious injury, it’s quite easy to mistake bipolar depression for unipolar depression (MDD). The danger is that antidepressant use without a mood stabilizing medication will likely result in treatment emergent activation, or cycling the mood into a manic phase. This is becoming less common, but is still too prevalent,especially when only a general physician or less up to date psychologist is diagnosing. Also, the data is robust that all medications work best in combination with psychotherapy.
An additional danger with initiating antidepressant treatment is that a severely depressed patient may experience enough of a mood lift to finally have enough energy to do something -serious or lethal – about the depression. This is why it’s really, truly not a good idea to leave diagnosis and treatment to a nonspecialist.
I am not a physician, and the above is not medical advice. But I want to communicate that these are not casual courses of treatment. I hope that helps.
Fort Geek
“…The Aristocrats!”
Mnemosyne
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
There’s some current research into the possibility that dysthymic disorder can be a misdiagnosis for (or at least a common symptom of) ADHD. That’s what mine turned out to be.
Redshift
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
This. This is why it is vital to have followup appointments and monitoring when starting medication.
(Not any kind of medical professional, I’ve just had exposure to it through friends and relatives on both the therapist and patient side of the equation.)
Another Holocene Human
@divF: Maybe the Kochs do and it started at home because they were famous for suing each other for the entire 1980s.
But there are SOOOOOO many wealthy heirlings, fortunate children, “self-made” piggybackers on their parents who have never had a care in their cosseted lives other than stressing about their image (and sometimes not even then … you may have met the carelessly dressed heirlings … but others are obsessed with seeming cooler than thou).
Redshift
On the more positive side of recent events, the Rude Pundit has a nice series of examples illustrating that the police response to dangerous situations can be something other than “get beat up/killed” or “shoot somebody.”
Another Holocene Human
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Thanks for the info and the warnings. I’ve been screened for bipolar because everybody is worried about that now, including atypical bipolar disorder and so far there’s no sign of it.
Like Mnemo there’s definitely some ADHD in there with me, never treated. (I got scolded a lot, and sometimes worse.)
Another Holocene Human
@Mnemosyne: Yeah, I think there’s something to that, although I have my major depressive episodes as well.
Where’s my manic cycle where I make up for lost time and feel confident and outgoing? Hasn’t happened yet.
eta: what I mean is that it’s like impossible to get up in the morning, problems focusing and getting engaged into stuff, there’s definitely an ADD issue there
Ella in New Mexico
@Mandalay:
Seriously? If I were you I’d be apologizing to the nation for the legacy of fail your state’s voters have inflicted on America, oh, starting with Bush-Gore?
May I redirect you again to the sanest response to your silliness here:
@Villago Delenda Est:
Mike E
Ray Rice reinstated by the NFL, can now sign with another team.
Keith G
@azlib: I think you are right. This guy was certainly a most unsavory character. It seems to me that he might have had multiple untreated mental and emotional issues, maybe even cognitive dysfunction. In a better society he would have not only access to treatment but an actual push by his peers, family, and society to take advantage of that treatment.
I’m glad he won’t be harming others, but I’m sorry that his life took such a dismal turn.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Mike E: So much for that lifetime ban, eh?
Yet another reason not to watch football. Vote with your dollars/eyeballs!
Cheers,
Scott.
Mnemosyne
@Another Holocene Human:
I definitely had major depressive episodes in the past, before I started on Wellbutrin and got seven years of CBT (cognitive-behavioral therapy). We had to work down through the depression and get that taken care of before I could really look at my life and realize that the ADHD was there, too. Depression kind of takes everything over and makes it really hard to see any underlying issues (which is one of the reasons for the misdiagnoses that people with bipolar disorders get).
I’ve found ADDitude magazine to be a really good resource for general-audience information about ADHD, ASD, and other similar disorders. They have quite a few articles that do comparison/contrast between ADHD, depression, bipolar, ASD, etc. that could be helpful in clarifying your thinking before you see a psychiatrist. They also have doctors and coaches who advertise online and message boards for different geographical regions to help you narrow down your search. If possible, you want to find someone who deals with adult ASD and ADHD patients, not just children/adolescents. Both my psychologist and my psychiatrist have both adult and child patients, so that makes all our lives much easier.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Amir Khalid: In addition to what everyone else has said, the question is complicated by what the people at the time of the country’s founding did in practice as well as what they wrote about the theory. That produces even greater tension in whether what is meant is a state-controlled militia or self-forming groups of citizens. During the War of American Independence, there were a lot of militia units raised by individuals outside of the authorization of the Continental Army.
The regular army, under Washington and Nathaniel Greene in the southern theater, tried to assert control over these militia units as a matter of military operations rather than political theory with mixed success. Many of them refused to take commands and remained a perpetual headache for the Continental Army.
The same thing was true, though to a lesser extent, during the War of 1812. By the time of the U.S. Civil War, the regular army had gained control of the militias during wartime except in the west, where militias remained an active and independent phenomenon.
So history doesn’t really help answer that question as to whether militias should be state controlled, because on the ground there was a lot of disagreement about that.
debbie
I wonder if there was just a tiny instant before losing consciousness that this man regretted his actions? I’d like to think so.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Another Holocene Human:
You don’t want them. If anything, the manic phases are even scarier than the depressions. In the latter, you can do nothing; in the former, you might do anything. Before she was diagnosed and started getting treatment, my ex-wife on more than one occasion started beating herself with nearby objects. After one incident with the TV remote that left her with a black eye and other facial bruising we were at a party with my coworkers; I found out recently that some of them still think I was hitting her and that’s what led to our divorce.
Keith G
@debbie: A gun blast to the face? I don’t think so.
Isn’t his death enough of a payback. Do you have to imagine that he felt regret?
Interesting.
FlipYrWhig
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): For instance, the Green Mountain Boys.
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
I think debbie is hoping he had an instant of redemption before he died. Not sure why it’s bad to hope for that.
debbie
@Keith G:
No, I’d like there to be some kind of remorse felt for eternity. Such a stupid, stupid way to die, and all for a lighter.
Mike E
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Goodell and his lackies hamfisted this from the start, and I don’t blame the players assoc coming to Rice’s rescue…due process notwithstanding. I’m just glad the league is getting the scrutiny they deserve: owners, coaches, players et al.
Back to the original subject via my OT: anybody remember Plaxico Burgess shooting himself in the junk with a 50 cal handgun he had tucked in his sweatpants? How did serious injury/death get avoided in that scenario…
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
Yes, this. Like hoping James Cagney will recant at the end of a movie.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@FlipYrWhig: I was thinking specifically about the set of militia units that fought the Battle of King’s Mountain, but the Vermonters work, too.
Steve from Antioch
Its possible to recognize that someone is violent, and perhaps irredeemable, while still believing that person’s life has value.
That’s how principled, moral people can be opposed to the death penalty, for example.
Holding those beliefs does require a developed moral calculus. It’s much easier to point an laugh at the bad guy who shot himself in the head.
Amir Khalid
Thank you for the many knowledgeable and thoughtful answers to my question. Those answers have been enlightening, if somewhat bleaker than I expected.
Amir Khalid
@debbie:
Jimmy Cagney’s character did repent of his evil ways, as I recall, in Angels With Dirty Faces. His character fakes cowardice on the way to the electric chair, at the request of his childhood friend Pat O’Brien, the priest.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mandalay: Yup, a skull of osmium, you have.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mnemosyne: I think the guy is like He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named in the Harry Potter books. The thought of redemption is more troubling to him than the thought of damnation.
Mnemosyne
@Amir Khalid:
It’s an interestingly twisty ending, though — O’Brien asks Cagney to fake cowardice, and Cagney refuses in the moment, but freaks out as he’s being brought to the chair. So has he genuinely shown cowardice, or has he shown heroism by acting the part of a coward to help his lifelong friend? There’s a bit of a wink and a nod towards the heroism theory, but it’s hard to be completely sure.
Julie
@PsiFighter37: I hear you. I really enjoyed a lot of the EU. But, toward the end, it turned into such a crowed clusterfuck of jumbled (and more than occasionally contradictory) story lines created in different mediums by different authors/creators, that I’m kind of okay with burning it down and starting over.
raven
Back from the deep blue. I knew what the deal was, we had to throw back a couple of big Amber Jacks and a ton on triggers. All we could keep were mingo, white and vermillion snapper but it was a really pretty day out there.
Amir Khalid
@Julie:
When I saw the trailer, it struck me that The Force Awakens will the first Star Wars movie not preceded by the 20th Century Fox Fanfare. I’m really going to miss seeing and hearing that. Sleeping Beauty’s castle doesn’t feel like the right replacement.
Yatsuno
I kan haz new thread naow plz? Kthxbai!
Steeplejack
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
I sent you a (late) message about your editing problem. Dunno if it would be helpful.
gbear
@Mnemosyne: Sorry for the late reply but I was out shopping.
They’re actually parking under a streetlight. I tried opening my garage door and going out to putz around for a bit and it eventually led one of the cars to drive off, make a u-turn at the end of the street and then pull up along side the other car that was waiting. I realized that what I was doing could be dangerous so I went back in the house and kept watch from inside. After seeing another deal thru car windows an hour later, I called the cops again. A third deal happened a couple hours later. The thing that pisses me off about it is that the cars can be waiting for the deal for half an hour or more. It it just happened and was over it wouldn’t freak me out as much. When I’m sitting at my computer I’m staring staight out to where they park, and they can probably see me from their car.
Julie
@Amir Khalid: My husband had that same reaction. He’s still super excited for it, but he wants the fanfare back or “it’s not Star Wars!”
I suspect Disney will do something custom just for Star Wars that captures the original feel, but we’ll see.
DTGstl314
@Villago Delenda Est:
2,865,343 Floridians re-elected Scott, out of a total population of 19,552,860 Florida citizens. Is it really fair to blame the entire state of Florida for the actions of less than 15% of its entire population?
PaulW
@DTGstl314:
Yes. I blame the 2-plus million Democrats out of the 5.5 million registered party members who failed to turn out the vote. Voter turnout itself when it’s under 50 percent (it was, what 44 percent this year?) is inexcusable, with a lot of blame on the voters themselves to not give enough of a sh-t when the time comes. Who the hell do you think you’re punishing when you refuse to vote? YOURSELVES. ’cause here comes Rick “No Ethics” Scott pulling even more damaging sh-t to the state than he’s already done. Say goodbye to whatever’s left of our school systems as it goes all-voucher all-charter school with all-profits to CEOs. Say goodbye to half your state services. Say hello to more pushes for mandatory drug testing of everybody on a weekly basis. Say hello to more flooding as climate change claims our shorelines and the state refuses to pay for water pumps and flood walls.
Mnemosyne
@gbear:
That’s definitely tricky. Again, I know it would only be removing the problem from your specific house, but is there anything you can put on the street/curb to block them from parking there? “Forget” to bring in your trash cans or something? Post a “Neighborhood Watch” or “Area Surveilled By Remote Camera” sign on the lamppost?
Overall, it probably would require some kind of neighborhood response — does your local police department have some kind of neighborhood or community assistance office? It’s definitely something you want to nip in the bud, because you don’t want them getting comfortable enough to start getting out of their cars and hanging out on the sidewalk.
ETA: Heck, even putting some broken glass or sharp tacks in the street might do the trick, though it would be hard on any of your neighbors who might want to park there at other times.
ms_canadada
@Pogonip: Ding! Ding! Ding!
Thank you.
Another Holocene Human
@DTGstl314: Yes.
mj
Downside.
He had a wife and a dog and was, I assume, employed, had friends and was occasionally getting laid.
All of these things are more than he deserved.
Fred
@Mandalay: I don’t know much about Florida but Rick Scott did get reelected so there is that. But don’t feel too bad. We can’t be held responsible for the teaming multitudes of ass holes that surround us. Gosh I lived a podunk, redneck looneybin county for decades and only a little of it rubbed off, I hope.