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You are here: Home / Civil Rights / Criminal Justice / Shitty Cops / Brelo Verdict

Brelo Verdict

by John Cole|  May 23, 201512:49 pm| 116 Comments

This post is in: Shitty Cops

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In case you were wondering, there is literally nothing you can’t get away with as a cop:

es, Cleveland police Officer Michael Brelo stood on a car and shot 15 times at the vehicle’s unarmed black occupants seconds after he and fellow officers first riddled the car with bullets in 2012 — but the shooting was justified, a judge ruled Saturday.

Concluding just one of several police use-of-force cases that prompted recent outrage in Cleveland, a Cuyahoga County judge decided that Brelo was not guilty of voluntary manslaughter and felonious assault in the deaths of Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams following a 22-mile car chase.

Emotions among people upset at the verdict ran high outside the Cleveland courtroom. One woman wept inconsolably on its steps.

Some people held up signs and chanted “no justice, no peace” outside the courthouse doors, heard in recent months in places like Ferguson, Missouri, and New York, where massive demonstrations sprung up after African-Americans died at the hands of white police officers.

“All I know is that I don’t trust police no more. No police. None,” said Malissa Williams’ brother Alfredo Williams. “I can’t recover from this. …This verdict isn’t real. This verdict is fake.”

Absurd. “The threat had not been stopped.”

There was no fucking threat.

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Reader Interactions

116Comments

  1. 1.

    Tom Levenson

    May 23, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    F**k f**k f**k, oh to hell with the asterisks, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuckity fuck fuck.

  2. 2.

    aimai

    May 23, 2015 at 12:58 pm

    Horrifying.There is literally nothing a (white) police officer can do that will be taken seriously or treated as a crime. Their fear always justifies everything–even in an obvious case of mistaken identity and criminally stupid hysterical overreaction on the part of the police. If they are acting alone their fear is considered justified, and if they are acting in a mob the fear of the others is taken as reason enough for each member to act in whatever manner seems fit. There was no gun in the car. The passengers were completely innocent. Waiting five minutes and not shooting them to death would have revealed that they were no threat.

  3. 3.

    Big ole hound

    May 23, 2015 at 12:58 pm

    My mistrust of any clown with a badge has grown to the point where if this old guy is ever asked about anything my answer will be to request a lawyer. The sad thing is I hate them just as much.

  4. 4.

    Hunter Gathers

    May 23, 2015 at 1:00 pm

    Michael Brelo feared for his life, and therefore his actions were justified. Evidently, the first question on the job application to become a police office is ‘Are You A Gigantic Pu$$y?’

  5. 5.

    Persia

    May 23, 2015 at 1:00 pm

    My best friend is a lawyer and she has always said talk to no cops without a lawyer. Basically be Mike in Better Call Saul.

  6. 6.

    Davis X. Machina

    May 23, 2015 at 1:01 pm

    I saw that on TV.

    No. Wait. That was the end of Bonnie and Clyde.

  7. 7.

    PhoenixRising

    May 23, 2015 at 1:03 pm

    The car backfired.

    137 shots.

    Meanwhile, Tamir Rice died 6 months ago and still no charges. Coverage of the protest/funeral, which the judge knew was scheduled when he released the Brelo verdict: http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/05/tamir_rice_rally_at_impett_par.html#incart_maj-story-1

    My dad’s father, who died in 1965, was a patrol officer and then a detective and then a union officer at CPD. My dad, and my 4 aunts, grew up in a 3BR house in West Park that their father and his brother–also CPD–built themselves.

    For the first time in 19 years, I’m glad my dad didn’t live to see this day.

  8. 8.

    greennotGreen

    May 23, 2015 at 1:10 pm

    You know how all Muslims are expected to speak out against the extremists and black leaders are supposed to speak out against the rioters? Where are the good cops speaking out against the murders?

  9. 9.

    Walker

    May 23, 2015 at 1:15 pm

    My understanding is that Ohio has called out the National Guard in anticipation of protesters. And the judge preemptively admonished protestors in his ruling.

    Meanwhile, Texas is just letting the biker gangs blow off steam.

  10. 10.

    Chris

    May 23, 2015 at 1:17 pm

    “You don’t know how lucky you are to live in a free country, not like all these horrid little countries where the government can do anything it wants to you and no one can do anything about it,” the conservatives keep telling me.

  11. 11.

    JPL

    May 23, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    Horrific

  12. 12.

    Tom Q

    May 23, 2015 at 1:22 pm

    As much as we think juries are too apt to let cops skate free, I think judges are a worse hope. A friend of mine prosecuted a case against cops (one that got some national attention). The cops opted for a no-jury/judge set-up, and, in the words of my friend (who prosecuted in absolutely good faith), “the judge decided to ignore the evidence”.

    How long before we start talking about the police/judicial complex?

  13. 13.

    Ruckus

    May 23, 2015 at 1:22 pm

    @Big ole hound:
    I’ve known lawyers and cops and the thing they tell me is you never, ever give away information. You only answer the question asked if you want to. But your best defense is to not answer. Ask for a lawyer. Always. Even if you can’t afford one. A shorter version is Shut The Fuck Up. When the cop asks you if you know how fast you are going, say yes or no, not how fast you were going nor how fast you think they want to hear. I’ve heard this for decades and for me, now, it is even more important. And I’m an old white guy. Can not imagine being black, especially black and under 60, and really especially being a black male and under 30. It doesn’t compute that just being black makes you deserve a death sentence for breathing.
    Take this case. The cops had fired numerous shots into the car, they say they feared for their lives but this guy jumps on the hood and fires and fires directly into the windshield and the occupants. He didn’t fear enough for his safety that he could jump directly into any possible line of fire? Of course that was fucking impossible as they were unarmed. And cops wonder why people hate them and don’t trust them. There may be good cops, I’d like to think there are. I see stories about them every once in a while. About one hundredth of the ones I see about them shooting an unarmed black man. Or beating the shit out of an old lady on the street, or……..

    I think violent crime is down only if you don’t include the cops shooting unarmed people.

  14. 14.

    Baud

    May 23, 2015 at 1:22 pm

    a Cuyahoga County judge decided

    So a judge, not a jury. I’m assuming the cops waived their right to a jury trial knowing how the judge would come up. Probably an elected judge. Not to say a jury would have convicted either.

  15. 15.

    Calouste

    May 23, 2015 at 1:28 pm

    “The threat had not been stopped.”

    Well, the police officer thought that the threat had not been stopped, and that is the only thing that matters any more in legal America. Facts no longer matters, common sense no longer matters, just how someone (well, the right someone) perceives something. See further Hobby Lobby, Stand Your Ground, etc.

  16. 16.

    Betty Cracker

    May 23, 2015 at 1:28 pm

    @Persia: I loved that scene. He didn’t even say, “I want a lawyer.” Just answered every question with, “Lawyer,” in a flat monotone while subjecting the questioners to his shark-like gaze.

  17. 17.

    Big ole hound

    May 23, 2015 at 1:30 pm

    @Baud: My guess is cops will take a judge over a jury every time.. The scaredy cats in blue want one of their own not 12 people who just might not “fear for their lives” when a “suspicious”car stops.

  18. 18.

    PhoenixRising

    May 23, 2015 at 1:32 pm

    @Baud: Yeah, we all have a *right* to trial by a jury of our peers, which was spelled out to prevent the powerless from being sentenced by one powerful person.

    Tim Russell and Marissa Williams, who were driving a car that backfired in front of a Cleveland police station while paranoid (are you paranoid if they’re really willing to fill your car with hot lead?), didn’t have a right to their executioners being tried by a jury, though.

    “Cleveland had the first Black mayor of any major American city
    And the first mayor of an American city who set his hair on fire, twice, while dedicating a bridge…”

  19. 19.

    Frankensteinbeck

    May 23, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    @Hunter Gathers:
    Apparently, yes. I know someone applying to be a police officer. I thought they would be rejected because of military PTSD paranoia. The police interviewer said that was a bonus. They wanted someone who was already scared of being attacked at all times.

  20. 20.

    Patrick

    May 23, 2015 at 1:38 pm

    @Walker:

    My understanding is that Ohio has called out the National Guard in anticipation of protesters. And the judge preemptively admonished protestors in his ruling. Meanwhile, Texas is just letting the biker gangs blow off steam.

    And not a damned thing has happened to Cliven Bundy. What a great message to send!

  21. 21.

    El Caganer

    May 23, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    @greennotGreen: Well, they would if there were any murders. But if everything is justified, there’s nothing to speak out against. See how easy it is?

  22. 22.

    Mary G

    May 23, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    I have no words. Just nausea.

  23. 23.

    Patrick

    May 23, 2015 at 1:46 pm

    Does anybody know if the Dept of Justice can step in? Were the civil rights violated?

  24. 24.

    shell

    May 23, 2015 at 1:46 pm

    I’m a 59 year old white woman and I’m starting to become scared of the police.

  25. 25.

    kc

    May 23, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    @shell:

    I’ve seen a video (think it was posted here, infant) of a cop tasing an elderly white woman at a traffic stop because she didn’t comply fast enough.

  26. 26.

    Davis X. Machina

    May 23, 2015 at 2:06 pm

    Perhaps the phrase should say “Law or Order”.

    The usual formulation is becoming an oxymoron.

  27. 27.

    gene108

    May 23, 2015 at 2:08 pm

    Somewhat related to the powerful are above consequences for their actions:

    From Westlaw Journal Computer & Internet: The mother and stepfather of a 24-year-old woman killed in a Colorado movie theater mass shooting not only can’t sue the websites where gunman James Holmes bought his ammunition and equipment, but now they may owe two of the businesses more than $220,000 in legal costs.

    Senior U.S. District Judge Richard P. Matsch of the District of Colorado dismissed Sandy and Lonnie Phillips’ suit against four websites because Colorado and federal laws shield firearms and ammunition sellers from liability based on a customer’s wrongful acts. Phillips et al. v. Lucky Gunner LLC et al., No. 14–cv–02822, 2015 WL 1499382 (D. Colo. Mar. 27, 2015).

    Accused Aurora theater shooting suspect James Holmes listens at his arraignment in Centennial
    James Holmes is charged with murder for killing Jessica Ghawi, 24, and 11 others in July 2012.
    The judge also ordered the couple, whose daughter Jessica Ghawi died along with 11 other people during Holmes’ July 2012 shooting rampage, to pick up the legal bills for defendants Lucky Gunner LLC and Sportsman’s Guide.

    In doing so, the judge followed a subsection of a Colorado law requiring plaintiffs to pay fees and costs to defendants in cases against gun and ammunition sellers.

    On April 10, Lucky Gunner and Sportsman’s Guide filed motions for more than $220,000 in attorney fees and costs.

    One of the other defendants, Brian Platt, who does business as BTP Arms, also filed a motion for legal fees seeking more than $33,000.

    It is unclear from the judge’s order that the Colorado fee recovery statute allows Platt to get fees, because it applies to firearm and ammunition sellers, and Holmes bought tear gas grenades from BTP Arms.

    http://blog.thomsonreuters.com/index.php/parents-lost-daughter-mass-shooter-now-owe-220000-suppliers/

    The comments from the gun-nuts are truly horrific. Not one shred of empathy for the victim’s parents. There’s no compromise anymore in this country. The other side needs to be beaten in elections over and over again, until they have no choice but to crawl off into the dark corners of society and out of the public sphere.

  28. 28.

    D58826

    May 23, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    Well maybe if they had used the grenade launchers or tanks that the US military has provided someone might decide that was a bit excessive

  29. 29.

    D58826

    May 23, 2015 at 2:16 pm

    One more reason to ‘trust’ your local police

    A year before the deadly Texas shootout that killed nine people on May 17, a lengthy report by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives detailed the involvement of U.S. military personnel and government employees in outlaw motorcycle gangs, or OMGs. A copy of the report was obtained by The Intercept.

    The report lays out, in almost obsessive detail, the extent to which OMG members are represented in nearly every part of the military, and in federal and local government, from police and fire departments to state utility agencies. Specific examples from the report include dozens of Defense Department contractors with Secret or Top Secret clearances; multiple FBI contractors; radiological technicians with security clearances; U.S. Department of Homeland Security employees; Army, Navy and Air Force active-duty personnel, including from the special operations force community; and police officers.

    Article is on Huffington
    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/22/atf-report-warned-military-government-membership-outlaw-motorcycle-gangs/

  30. 30.

    PurpleGirl

    May 23, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    I stopped trusting the police years ago. I would walk past the 114th Precinct in Queens on my way to the subway. I saw cops about to go on duty ‘sleeping’ in their cars because they left home (from Nassau or Suffolk counties) so early to avoid traffic on the LIE. I told one friend that it felt they were an occupying force — not local and never grew up locally, they knew nothing of us. My friend (btw a Jewish, black, Hispanic woman) responded that the cops have really lost it when that statement is made by a middle(is) aged white female.

    That was back in the 1980s, it ain’t been improving.

    WTF, the cop stood on the car and shot INTO the car. No justice, no peace!

  31. 31.

    MomSense

    May 23, 2015 at 2:42 pm

    This is truly disgusting. No justice. No peace.

  32. 32.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    May 23, 2015 at 2:42 pm

    I was sick when I read that. I had not heard that Kasuck sent the guard, or had them stand ready of what-the-fuck ever. I suspect I need a break from the news for mental health renovation (to the extent it’s possible).

    It seems OH has become the leader in “lawful” LEO executions of unarmed people with obvious melanin. This case, John Crawford, Tamir Rice – all the way back to Timothy Thomas in 2001.

  33. 33.

    James E Powell

    May 23, 2015 at 2:49 pm

    @Ruckus:

    You only answer the question asked if you want to.

    Please. Don’t even do this. Free legal advice. You don’t have the competence to determine which questions to answer or not answer. No one does. Do not let your “wanting to” be your guide.

  34. 34.

    lamh36

    May 23, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    I comment here regularly, Elon J White post regularly, ABL used to post regularly, any number of regular posters herw who are Black or P.O.C. comment here on the regular…all of us consistently talk about how the system is NOT designed to bring justice for avg Black folk. We drop comments or posts trying to give some idea of what’s it’s like and how sone things feel in the eyes of Black folk, and it never fails thst one or all of us are told, we are too cynical of the system or that we are not optimistic enough or how webe got to let the process take its course…and dan near everytime our skepticism is proven to be true and prescient.

    This “verdict” doesn’t surprise me at all. It’s just a pattern that seems to continue and continue on.

    In the pit of my stomach I’m really dreading to here the next news from the Tamir Rice case. If thst case goes the way of the usual pattern…smh…I genuinely fear for the reaction.

    Ugh…I feel the need to cleanse my mind after this..

  35. 35.

    Monala

    May 23, 2015 at 2:56 pm

    @PhoenixRising: The cops have, in fact, filed charges against Tamir Rice: http://crooksandliars.com/2015/05/cleveland-police-filed-charges-tamir-rice

  36. 36.

    Valdivia

    May 23, 2015 at 2:57 pm

    This is horrible.

  37. 37.

    PurpleGirl

    May 23, 2015 at 3:00 pm

    @kc: And of course, once the woman was tased, she couldn’t comply with any speed because the the taser sent her nervous system into chaos and she couldn’t respond.

    Number one reason I don’t like taser — it isn’t that there could be pain, but the taser itself sent your electrical systems into chaos and you can’t respond, your muscles can’t answer any impulses it’s getting from the brain. I keep saying it — tasers cause a brain storm of electrical misactivity. And cops can’t seem to get that through their goddamnd thick heads – a person who you just tased can not respond or compaly with any speed, they can’t respond at all until the storm calms down. Rant over.

  38. 38.

    Cervantes

    May 23, 2015 at 3:05 pm

    @Patrick:

    Does anybody know if the Dept of Justice can step in?

    Yes.

    The United States Attorney’s Office, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice have been monitoring the extensive investigation that has been conducted around the events of Nov. 29, 2012. We will now review the testimony and evidence presented in the state trial. We will continue our assessment, review all available legal options, and will collaboratively determine what, if any, additional steps are available and appropriate given the requirements and limitations of the applicable laws in the federal judicial system.

    Excerpt from a statement issued jointly this morning by U.S. Attorney Steven Dettelbach, DoJ’s Vanita Gupta, and FBI Special Agent in Charge Stephen Anthony.

  39. 39.

    Comrade Dread

    May 23, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    “All I know is that I don’t trust police no more.

    Nobody should. I think recent events have made it quite clear that in any situation that doesn’t already involve the possibility of severe bodily harm or death, that calling the police is a shitty idea.

    Don’t call them unless you’re life is in danger. Don’t cooperate or answer any questions without a lawyer present. Don’t volunteer breath, saliva, blood, urine, or fingerprints unless legally compelled to.

    And that will still only really keep you safe if you’re a white male.

  40. 40.

    rikyrah

    May 23, 2015 at 3:36 pm

    @PhoenixRising:

    Meanwhile, Tamir Rice died 6 months ago and still no charges. Coverage of the protest/funeral, which the judge knew was scheduled when he released the Brelo verdict: http://www.cleveland.com/metro…..aj-story-1

    I know I sound like a broken record, but I believe the central question in the Tamir Rice case is:

    How did this obviously unqualified man get a position on the Cleveland Police Department.

    I believe it’s the central question.

    And answering it will cause a number of people to lose their jobs.

    Which is why they’ve decide to slander and defame a 12 year old boy.

  41. 41.

    Tenar Darell

    May 23, 2015 at 3:37 pm

    @Hunter Gathers: That’s the way they train ’em, doncha know? Training films include cops getting shot; makes ’em afeerd o’ ever body.

    In regular English… if serve and protect means, “serve myself by protecting myself” then police will regularly kill unarmed, disarmed and harmless civilians.

    ETA I don’t know why I’m trying to speak like a little Abner. The thought bubble in my head was just like when hock was thinking to himself that he’d rather go to hell, than give up Jim.

  42. 42.

    rikyrah

    May 23, 2015 at 3:38 pm

    @lamh36:

    I feel you, lamh.

    I feel you.

  43. 43.

    rikyrah

    May 23, 2015 at 3:38 pm

    As far as this case goes..

    It went before a judge…which is all I needed to know.

    The case was a fucking scam, from beginning to end.

  44. 44.

    Neutron Flux

    May 23, 2015 at 3:48 pm

    @lamh36: There are other folks that read your comments and do not comment. That does not mean that your comments do not inform and give perspective. They do and they matter.

  45. 45.

    Ruckus

    May 23, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    @James E Powell:
    Yes I reread that after the edit time was up. You are correct, never answer any question.
    And thanks for the update.

  46. 46.

    Tenar Darell

    May 23, 2015 at 3:54 pm

    @Tenar Darell: Oh hell, it’s a FYWP moment. Not talking about a horse, but the fictional character, so Huck not hock.

  47. 47.

    Ruckus

    May 23, 2015 at 3:58 pm

    @lamh36:
    All I can say is, please don’t stop posting. Please. Some of us, that is whites, know full well that the system is fucked up. We’ve know it for a very long time and we’ve seen it get worse rather than better. I don’t know what it will take to make it better. Even in a liberal place like urban areas of CA it is bad. Maybe not as bad as other areas but it is still bad. Some are trying to make it better, some want to make it far worse. I wish I had even a glimmer of an idea how to make it better or even get it started on a better path, but I don’t. Except for one thing. Exposure. And way, way too much time. We all need your voice, we all need so many more voices.

  48. 48.

    Baud

    May 23, 2015 at 3:59 pm

    This is hardly consolation, but it seems as if the prosecutor did the right thing at least. I don’t want to contemplate what this means for his or her career as a prosecutor, however.

    I was going to quip that this is, or is near, Boehner’s district, but the same thing happens in too many places.

  49. 49.

    Tom Q

    May 23, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    @Baud: My friend I mentioned above, who did prosecute police, said he was cut cold overnight by law enforcement people he’d known for years. He said he took the case because he knew any young person in his office wold have had his career aborted on the spot. He thought he’d built up enough credit over the years to withstand it, which in one sense he did — he’s still employed. But he has far fewer friends than he used to.

  50. 50.

    Lavocat

    May 23, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    Hey. What can you say about this other than …

    Fuck the police.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5fts7bj-so

  51. 51.

    Baud

    May 23, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    @Tom Q: I can’t say I’m surprised. Your friend sounds like a man of principle.

  52. 52.

    Cervantes

    May 23, 2015 at 4:14 pm

    @lamh36:

    it never fails thst one or all of us are told, we are too cynical of the system or that we are not optimistic enough or how webe got to let the process take its course

    There may be those who say that to you but is it your sense that they are in the majority?

    (Of those who say anything, I mean.)

  53. 53.

    Tenar Darell

    May 23, 2015 at 4:14 pm

    @lamh36: What Ruckus said.

  54. 54.

    Lavocat

    May 23, 2015 at 4:14 pm

    @Persia: I tell ALL my clients that the proper response to ANY AND ALL questions by ANY AND ALL police – or people who you suspect might be police (look, these motherfuckers lie & impersonate non-police, so you never can tell) – is this phrase and this phrase ONLY: “I respectfully decline to answer any and all of your questions and hereby demand an attorney”.

    Period.

    NEVER consent to a search of your car or your home.

    NEVER admit to ANYTHING.

    NEVER sign ANYTHING.

    DEMAND to see a search warrant.

    RECORD EVERYTHING you see a cop doing.

    These fuckers do NOT protect and serve ANYONE but themselves.

    They are an occupying force in modern-day Amerika.

  55. 55.

    lol chikinburd

    May 23, 2015 at 4:14 pm

    @Comrade Dread:

    I think recent events have made it quite clear that in any situation that doesn’t already involve the possibility of severe bodily harm or death, that calling the police is a shitty idea.

    Cue eff tee. “Chicken John” Rinaldi has famously said: “If a bad thing happens, and you call the cops, then you have the bad thing and cops.” Those words get less foolish every passing month.

  56. 56.

    Cervantes

    May 23, 2015 at 4:17 pm

    @Baud:

    I was going to quip that this is, or is near, Boehner’s district, but the same thing happens in too many places.

    This was Cleveland, recently the subject of a DoJ review under 42 U.S.C. 14141.

  57. 57.

    Ruckus

    May 23, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    @Tom Q:
    Doesn’t sound like very good friends.

    On a somewhat OT note, in Alameda County CA which is in the south east SF bay area, some assholes entered a closed area and destroyed an inflatable dam, with a loss of several million gallons of fresh water into the SF bay. I say somewhat OT because this is the kind of behavior that makes me wonder what the fuck is wrong with people. What possible gain can come from long term racism or destruction of scarce water resources? I can’t see it, not any of it. Or the desire to kill the ACA or what the fuck ever. Where, what is the gain? To anyone. Been here going on seven decades, still don’t get it. Can anyone find any explanation that has any logic to it? Even the slightest amount?

  58. 58.

    Baud

    May 23, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    @Cervantes:

    Ah, thanks. I got my Ohio geography confused.

  59. 59.

    Baud

    May 23, 2015 at 4:21 pm

    @Ruckus: My two-bit philosophy is that it makes insecure people feel powerful when they can hurt other people with impunity.

  60. 60.

    ruemara

    May 23, 2015 at 4:23 pm

    @Cervantes: Yes. That is what I get. Having had a supposed liberal tell me that he was tired of me bringing race into these matters of police violence as well as another super liberal say that the struggles of women for body rights, and black people for the right to survive an interaction with police were “minor quibbles” in the face of TPP – my feeling is the complaints of black people around white liberals are tolerated, but not without exasperation over hearing about it. Most of my “friends” are white. And they are incredibly silent. Very liberal, very interested in social justice for vegans, the environment, animal rights, fair pay, unions. Black lives, eeehh, well, that’s so uncomfortable.
    I don’t love them less, but I do feel a level of pain that they’re unthinkingly dismissive.

    Also, the judge in this case was endorsed by the FoP for re-election just 2 years back. A little conflict of interest. http://www.cleveland.com/business/prnewswire/index.ssf?/cleveland/story/?catSetID=7002&catID=290032&nrid=281237861&page=1

  61. 61.

    Baud

    May 23, 2015 at 4:25 pm

    @ruemara:

    It sounds like their interests didn’t conflict at all.

  62. 62.

    Lavocat

    May 23, 2015 at 4:26 pm

    This pervasive nonsense even has a name.

    I thought it might be something like “white entitlement syndrome”.

    Instead, it’s the much more poignant “white fragility”.

    http://libjournal.uncg.edu/index.php/ijcp/article/view/249/116

    If you have the time, it’s an amazing read.

  63. 63.

    Howard Beale IV

    May 23, 2015 at 4:30 pm

    @Lavocat: What about “Am I being detained” and “Am I free to go?”

  64. 64.

    Cervantes

    May 23, 2015 at 4:32 pm

    @ruemara:

    Yes. That is what I get.

    Sorry to hear it.

    Having had a supposed liberal tell me that he was tired of me bringing race into these matters of police violence as well as another super liberal say that the struggles of women for body rights, and black people for the right to survive an interaction with police were “minor quibbles” in the face of TPP

    Not that it matters all that much but is it people here who are telling you such things?

    I had not noticed, but I’m often not really paying attention here. (Sorry.)

    – my feeling is the complaints of black people around white liberals are tolerated, but not without exasperation over hearing about it. Most of my “friends” are white. And they are incredibly silent. Very liberal, very interested in social justice for vegans, the environment, animal rights, fair pay, unions. Black lives, eeehh, well, that’s so uncomfortable. I don’t love them less, but I do feel a level of pain that they’re unthinkingly dismissive.

    To some extent I think people feel unqualified to comment in detail on situations so far removed from their own. Others perhaps are severely embarrassed — as who wouldn’t be? Still others may be ignorant and completely insensitive. Not that these are good reasons for silence — not at all — but do you think there are other factors? Among your “friends,” I mean, not the public at large.

  65. 65.

    Ruckus

    May 23, 2015 at 4:32 pm

    @Baud:
    I guess I just don’t see how it makes them feel better. But then I also don’t get how assholes with more money than they could possibly spend in a hundred lifetimes have to find ways of squeezing out more from everyone else. And how they can’t keep from trying to fuck over everyone else rather than just enjoy what the hell they have already stolen.
    Must be me not them.

  66. 66.

    ruemara

    May 23, 2015 at 4:38 pm

    @Cervantes: I think people here are either smart enough not to say it or smart enough not to think it. No, these are impassioned liberals I know personally, which, has the funny effect of erasing my AA identity to them, even my female identity. Resulting in statements like that to my face. And since I try to not fight with people I know are decent, even if I disagree with them, unless it’s dangerous, I usually give them a look and leave the conversation. I’m usually surrounded by white male nerds and geeks of liberaltarian stripes. It’s hard to believe that there are people who think, feel and experience life differently than them unless it’s an academic exercise.

  67. 67.

    Tommy

    May 23, 2015 at 4:39 pm

    137 total gun shots. The last 10-15 Michael Brelo fired from the roof of their car. I can’t even wrap my mind around it. Heck which of those two stats is the worse? At first I thought the shots from the roof of the car. But after talking a short walk, I have to say no the 137 total shots is far worse.

    Ten officers were on the scene. Now somebody might correct me if I am wrong here (please do), but if each officer had a nine bullet clip (which is what I think most officers carry these days) and one in the chamber, that is 100 shots.

    That means everybody emptied their clips and some reloaded another clip and kept shooting. I don’t know any other way to say it, that was a firing squad. I mean that is like a scene you see in a cheesy action movie.

  68. 68.

    WereBear

    May 23, 2015 at 4:39 pm

    @ruemara: I’ve never understood why anyone is comfortable with hierarchical ranking of causes, and dismissal of those who aren’t “on top.” I can and do support a number of causes.

    In fact, they all fit together.

  69. 69.

    Baud

    May 23, 2015 at 4:42 pm

    @Ruckus:

    I guess I just don’t see how it makes them feel better

    I’d imagine it’s like schadenfreude, but without regard to whether the victim deserves it.

    ETA: On second thought, schadenfreude tends to be more passive, while many of the folks we’re talking about actively try to cause misery to others.

  70. 70.

    grondo

    May 23, 2015 at 4:46 pm

    I don’t know what guns Cleveland cops carry, but considering that the Glock 17 is the most common police sidearm, and has a magazine capacity of 17 rounds, that means that this guy had to have stopped to reload *twice* in order to fire 49 shots at the couple in the car. Not to mention that he jumped on the hood of their car in order to keep pouring bullets into the cabin at them. How is this not way beyond “stopping an immediate threat” and into obvious murder territory?

  71. 71.

    Baud

    May 23, 2015 at 4:46 pm

    @ruemara:

    Your experience sounds like a microcosm of the thread wars over the significance of the NSA metadata controversy.

  72. 72.

    grondo

    May 23, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    @Tommy: “I mean that is like a scene you see in a cheesy action movie.” It was like a scene that MAKES FUN of cheesy action movies.

  73. 73.

    ruemara

    May 23, 2015 at 4:48 pm

    @WereBear: Funny, that. It’s like you can think it’s all important without dismissing the concerns of others.

    @Baud: Lord, that shite. It’s why I can’t stand the writing from GG that says things like “SPYING ON EVERYONE (could possibly be thanks to tech)”.

  74. 74.

    Gator90

    May 23, 2015 at 4:49 pm

    The vast majority of police officers are honorable public servants, even heroes. They have incredibly difficult, dangerous jobs. They run in when others run away. Most people who criticize the police have no idea what it’s like to face such danger, or the possibility of it, every day on the job.

    Or so folks on TV keep telling me. And I, a middle-aged white man whose worst-ever treatment at the hands of police was one unwarranted traffic ticket, am so very sick. Of hearing it.

  75. 75.

    Lavocat

    May 23, 2015 at 4:49 pm

    @Howard Beale IV: ALWAYS assume that you are free to go.

    Make the cop explain his actions, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO EXPLAIN YOURS.

    Remember, it’s always better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

  76. 76.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    May 23, 2015 at 4:51 pm

    @Howard Beale IV: I’d politely decline to answer any questions and request an attorney. Unless I were really pissed off, in which case I’d just say “counsel,” and call one of my defense buddies. Which is what I’d advise anyone who sought my advice to do, skipping the behavior if pissed off.

  77. 77.

    Howard Beale IV

    May 23, 2015 at 4:59 pm

    @Lavocat: But that isn’t the case when they hit the lights and pull you over-or are you saying you should never pull over if they hit the lights?

  78. 78.

    Cervantes

    May 23, 2015 at 5:02 pm

    @Baud:

    Your experience sounds like a microcosm of the thread wars over the significance of the NSA metadata controversy.

    Some might say that’s a cause that pales in comparison. And yet, as observed above, “unthinkingly dismissive” is nothing to aspire to.

    In other words, there may be a different way of looking at things:

    I’ve never understood why anyone is comfortable with hierarchical ranking of causes, and dismissal of those who aren’t “on top.” I can and do support a number of causes. In fact, they all fit together.

  79. 79.

    trollhattan

    May 23, 2015 at 5:04 pm

    @Ruckus:
    Saw that. I can only hope it was idiot teenagers and not some numbskull with a demented political axe to grind. Teenhood can be outgrown.

  80. 80.

    Aleta

    May 23, 2015 at 5:06 pm

    @Ruckus:

    The cops had fired numerous shots into the car, they say they feared for their lives but this guy jumps on the hood and fires and fires directly into the windshield and the occupants. He didn’t fear enough for his safety that he could jump directly into any possible line of fire?

    Sums it up. Every time I hear these ridiculous excuses given with a straight face, and accepted in court, I hear the unbroken chain of baldfaced lies told by confident whites to explain their violence against POC, stretching back over 200 years.

  81. 81.

    geg6

    May 23, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    @Baud:

    Oh gawd, yes. My heart aches for black people in America. I don’t know how the black people in my life get through life as gracefully as they do. And I am more and more aware of my white privilege as time goes by and I see these events and I hear and read more from black voices. I’ve come to the conclusion that this country is well and truly fucked and will never solve any of its problems until we deal with white people’s race problem.

  82. 82.

    Svensker

    May 23, 2015 at 5:09 pm

    @ruemara:

    I’m sorry to hear that. If it makes you feel any better, most of our liberal friends feel like the scales have fallen from their eyes and they see full scale racism and a full-on racist system at every turn. The people we know are mostly truly and deeply shocked — and horrified — at what we now recognize.

  83. 83.

    Tommy

    May 23, 2015 at 5:12 pm

    @Gator90: Really. Look they fled and took the police on a 22 miles chase. Not good on many different levels!!!!

    I, if a cop, would assume they had arrest warrants, weapons, drugs, or some combo of the three. When they stopped I’d be one pissed off dude. I’d also be worried about what might come next. Would they pull guns? Try to ram me with their car?

    But 137 shots. Let me say that again, 137. Go lay out 137 pennies on a table, step back, and ponder how many that is for a few seconds.

    This went quickly from cops maybe trying to protect themselves to a flat out execution, or as I said in another comment a “firing squad.”

    Explain 137 shots to me any other way, and I am not even asking you to explain Michael Brelo getting on the hood of the car and firing the final 12-15, which sure seems to me like some fucked up shit to say the least.

  84. 84.

    Svensker

    May 23, 2015 at 5:12 pm

    @Lavocat:

    ALWAYS assume that you are free to go.Make the cop explain his actions, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO EXPLAIN YOURS.

    Well, yeah, if they TALK to you. If they’re too busy pumping your body full of bullets, they may not hear your questions and demands.

  85. 85.

    Cervantes

    May 23, 2015 at 5:20 pm

    @Lavocat:

    That’s a good paper. Also good, albeit longer, is her book.

  86. 86.

    Ruckus

    May 23, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    @Svensker:
    This

    @Gator90:
    Someone up thread said where are the good cops to oppose the killing. Yeah I don’t hear them either. I am afraid that at some point when the cops start shooting, many will shoot back and then the war is on. Wanna bet I’ll be in the cross fire? Or you? Or your kids? Look at this one event. 137 shots fired at a car in an urban area. Does anyone think that not one of them went someplace besides the car? That no one besides these two unarmed people were at risk for being killed by the police? How many rounds did a solder carry for his M16 in Vietnam? This cop had 49 at least.

  87. 87.

    Cervantes

    May 23, 2015 at 5:32 pm

    @efgoldman:

    Wait! IANAL, but a *Federal* judge told these poor bastards to follow a *state* law?

    It happens.

  88. 88.

    Tommy

    May 23, 2015 at 5:34 pm

    @Svensker: I tried that, kind of, a few weeks ago. Did not work and I think got me an embarrassing ticket.

    I was coming home from a bar 3.5 blocks from my house. Walking. Was I drunk. Yes, pretty hammered actually. Total rural area. 2 AM. In a part of my town that isn’t incorporated. This is big.

    See we don’t have sidewalks in my part of town. Street lights, we pay for them. Residents that don’t pay for them with a monthly fee, there are no street lights (that was the case here).

    I am 1.5 blocks from home walking on what I guess you could call a “shoulder” (we have drainage ditches, not sewer) and I tripped (wearing flip flops) a step or two into the road. I didn’t fall. Went back to walking home.

    Next thing I notice police lights go off behind me. I got “pulled over while walking.” The cop asks me if I have any weapons or drugs. I say no. He asked me to empty my pockets …. and I should have, cause things went sideways.

    I said nope, did nothing wrong. WTF dude! I find myself up against the car with him patting me down, one time and then a second time.

    Then asked me to take a breathalyzer test. I didn’t know the law on this but I was clearly about the .08 of IL. I said nope.

    We exchange have a nice night and I start to walk away and he is like where are you going? I said home. He said no I will drive you. Got home and went to get out and he said wait, I have to write you a ticket for public drunkness.

    You were walking in the road (note there was no sidewalk) and went into the road and endangered safety of the public.

    Next I know I am being written a ticket, which I have to appear in court, for public intoxication.

    I wonder why folks don’t like the police …………

  89. 89.

    Lavocat

    May 23, 2015 at 5:39 pm

    @Howard Beale IV: You made me laugh. Yeah, you go ahead and see what happens when you fail to pull over when a cop flags your car down. A traffic stop is a temporary detention AND YOU ARE NOT FREE TO LEAVE until told that you are by the cop. The cop has to run your plate number & VIN (stolen car? unregistered?) and then run your personal documents through a central database.

    Traffic stops (in NYS) entail the requirement of producing THREE documents when you are stopped (and you better have them): 1) a valid driver’s license, 2) a valid certificate of insurance, & 3) a valid registration. You also better have a valid inspection sticker affixed to the lower left side of your windshield as well.

    After the data is run, the following may happen: 1) you will be arrested & your car & your person will be searched incident to the arrest, & your car will be towed, & you will be incarcerated, 2) you will be issued traffic tickets, 3) you will be issued a warning, or 4) you will be issued an apology. At which point, so long as #1 has not occurred, you are free to go.

    The best thing you can do in situations like this is to be POLITELY passive-aggressive: you are REFUSING to answer ANY of the cop’s questions – but you are not being obnoxious about it. Most cops will actually respect this (though they might also be annoyed by it, since it makes their job harder if you do not incriminate yourself).

    Make that cop EARN that donut.

  90. 90.

    BBA

    May 23, 2015 at 5:50 pm

    @greennotGreen: Frank Serpico, shot in the face. Adrian Schoolcraft, committed to a psych ward. Et cetera.

  91. 91.

    gene108

    May 23, 2015 at 5:50 pm

    @Tommy:

    You are alive to tell the tale…what more do you want?

  92. 92.

    Lavocat

    May 23, 2015 at 5:50 pm

    @Tommy: First of all – BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION – you were intoxicated. In public. At, on, or about a public highway. THAT is probably all of the elements that the People have to prove for a finding of public intoxication.

    Was the cop being a dick? Seriously? Since when are cops NOT dicks?

    Was what the cop did legit? Probably.

    My guess is that the cop was following you a ways back w/ his lights off (as cops are wont to do) just waiting for you to do what you wound up doing, ready to pounce.

  93. 93.

    Kropadope

    May 23, 2015 at 5:54 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Someone up thread said where are the good cops to oppose the killing. Yeah I don’t hear them either.

    Here is one. I know there have been others, including a couple chiefs of police, though the stories are hard to find.

    Officers, individually, don’t tend to have very big soapboxes, so they may have a hard time getting the message out there. What I think is more important is that they demonstrate pro-peace-with-the-public attitudes in their stations and have a safe environment to do so.

  94. 94.

    gelfling545

    May 23, 2015 at 6:12 pm

    “The threat had not been stopped.”

    When did our police become such delicate little flowers that they now feel threatened all the time? Apparently they become panic stricken at the sight of a person of color. I’ve known a few cops in my lifetime and, while some of them weren’t my favorite people, all of them got through their careers, city & county, without ever shooting anybody.

  95. 95.

    SiubhanDuinne

    May 23, 2015 at 6:31 pm

    @Tommy:

    Ten officers were on the scene. Now somebody might correct me if I am wrong here (please do), but if each officer had a nine bullet clip (which is what I think most officers carry these days) and one in the chamber, that is 100 shots.

    That means everybody emptied their clips and some reloaded another clip and kept shooting. I don’t know any other way to say it, that was a firing squad. I mean that is like a scene you see in a cheesy action movie.

    My emphasis. And the whole idea of a firing squad is that no one person can be held responsible for the killing bullet. I think maybe that was this judge’s reasoning, hence the acquittal.

    I’m not making excuses. The much larger issue, as people smarter than I have pointed out, is that we need to be focusing less on individual cops and more on the systemic abuses that provide such cops both cover and opportunity.

    The whole thing is simply sickening. I tend to be an optimistic person overall, but damn, there have been a lot of despairing days.

  96. 96.

    Roger Moore

    May 23, 2015 at 6:36 pm

    @Tommy:

    Explain 137 shots to me any other way

    Simple. It’s a combination of two factors: police having lousy fire discipline and being poorly coordinated. The police have an unfortunate tendency to keep shooting until their gun goes “click” rather than stopping to see the effects of their shooting. Then there was the inherent chaos of a whole bunch of police surrounding the car in a dark environment and not communicating well. When one of them decided the car was a threat and started shooting, others thought the shots were coming from the car and started shooting back. With as many police as were there, it’s pretty easy to get a bunch of them blazing away and emptying their whole magazine. IOW, it could be the result of the police being poorly trained and jumped up on adrenaline after a high speed chase rather than a deliberate decision to kill the people in the car. I don’t think that explains Brelo jumping up on the hood and shooting into the car, but it explains why the police shoot way too much way too often.

  97. 97.

    Howard Beale IV

    May 23, 2015 at 6:37 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): When it comes to any roadside encounter, it makes me want to instrument my SUV with cameras and also place window stickers on the driver side window that says:

    “Warning: This vehicle is equipped with audio/visual/geospatial instrumentation recording which is being transmitted in realtime via the cellular network to protect the United States Constitutional and state constitutional rights of all individuals involved in the instant interaction.”

  98. 98.

    LWA (Liberal With Attitude)

    May 23, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    I’ve said this before, and I will say it again.

    Sometime soon a cop will get shot in the line of duty, and we will hear an outpouring of grief and loss and tributes to a fallen hero.

    But not from me-
    I just can’t summon that up anymore.

    I know, I know, the one who gets shot isn’t the same one, bad apples etc.
    But I just don’t see any good ones any more. The good ones are the ones defending the bad ones.Whenever I see a cop, I think to myself that there is a 50-50 chance that he is a decent guy, or a thug with a badge. And the decent guy next to him will defend him every time.
    Sorry if this offends people- but usually does.

    It offends me more that I have come to feel this way.

  99. 99.

    debbie

    May 23, 2015 at 6:47 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    All of which is the result of less training, poorer training, and using lethal over incapacitating power.

  100. 100.

    Ruckus

    May 23, 2015 at 6:51 pm

    @Roger Moore:
    All true.
    But ramboing up on the hood and firing another clip…. That’s on a whole different level than too much adrenaline. Cops are supposed to learn to control their adrenaline rushes, to be professional under stress. The military taught us that, not to act in a manner to make the situation worse. Not sure if they were trying to teach that but it’s the lesson learned. And not just by me. And it worked. The military gets blamed for a lot of the police problems, I’m not fully sure they should be. I even served a short time in the Shore Patrol and the thought of overwhelming force never really was thought to be the best way to handle anything. Maybe that’s changed, it was a long time ago. But it is how the police seem to be today, unswerving obedience and overwhelming force, even when it’s totally wrong. How many people think they are under siege from the police? How many are wrong? ETA And those that look like you and me, we aren’t nearly as likely to be targets.

  101. 101.

    PhoenixRising

    May 23, 2015 at 6:54 pm

    @LWA (Liberal With Attitude): Well…in Omaha, a 29yo mother of 3 got shot by the bad guys she was serving a warrant on last week.

    She was a Big Dogs rescue volunteer, the one who phone-interviewed my family as it happens, who had fostered a number of elderly dogs as they passed out of this world.

    The bullet that killed her struck just above her body armor, which hadn’t been fitting the same since she had her baby 3 months ago.

    I don’t know about you, but I really wish that hadn’t happened. I also would like our national dialogue about police violence to get through the did-not-did-too-I’m-rubber-you’re-glue phase in which every death like Kerrie Orozco’s is used to justify a hail of bullets toward ‘suspects’ who have played with a toy gun, or run away from a cop who is known to beat on his traffic stops, or driven while high.

    Because we’re just spinning our wheels, talking about where are the good cops and OMG police work is dangerous. Yes, all that and, per above: How in the HELL do police departments keep finding these unqualified, fearful sociopaths who can’t shoot straight while flashing back on a checkpoint in Baghdad (oops I said it) and arming them? That’s the system-level question.

  102. 102.

    Ruckus

    May 23, 2015 at 6:59 pm

    @debbie:
    More guns, bigger guns, less training, more fear of those that have reason, of rising up, even though they aren’t. Saw a couple of pics on FB the other day, the first one of the cops beating a peaceful, unarmed protester and the second of Waco and the “suspects” sitting there looking at their phones while a cop stands there with his M16 at the ready, with his back turned to them. Oh and in the first picture the person getting beat was black.
    A great way to get it all wrong.

  103. 103.

    LWA (Liberal With Attitude)

    May 23, 2015 at 7:01 pm

    @PhoenixRising:
    Yes, it should be a systemic question.

    But there is also value in letting the police know that even a middle aged middle class white male professional, AKA perfect GOP demographic, views them with fear and loathing.

    Public shaming is a tool, along with the justice system and legislature. Police treasure their status as knights in blue, and we need to let them know that their status is tarnished, and they should feel shame.
    Every. Single. One.
    Should feel embarrassment and shame.

  104. 104.

    fuckwit

    May 23, 2015 at 7:06 pm

    @Chris: We do! We live in White Middle Class Suburban America. It’s exactly that kind of “free”– meaning privileged– country!

    However, black people do not live in that same country. They live in a different country, and it seems like a horrible, miserable place to be.

  105. 105.

    PhoenixRising

    May 23, 2015 at 7:06 pm

    @Ruckus: I’m not sure either. Brelo is a Marine combat vet. It seems plausible that some experiences he had over there might possibly have influenced him, even at a subconscious level, when he chose to put himself in the role of executioner for the car that didn’t stop.

    The idiot who shot Tamir Rice had emotional issues, per the small-town force that fired him before CLE picked him up…in a process that overlooked his firing AND more egregiously his statement that he was ‘looking for a more active policing environment’. (Somebody who says that, IMO, you don’t give him a gun, you give him a pat on the ass and recommend him for mall cop, no weapon.)

    The dude who caused that killing was the driver, though–not even being investigated, BTW, even though he put the basket case riding shotgun in a spot to shoot a 6th grader who, had he been the hardened 20yo criminal they were told of, would have killed them both with ease from that position. And whether he has combat service isn’t addressed by any of the press on him, but he was a training officer. Who has been involved in 2 known assaults behind his badge (CLE paid big for each of them).

    So. Clearly we have a culture of violence and impunity in this police department; military vets get favored in the hiring process; we cna play correlation-or-causation all day but in the end we need a civil policing culture in this country that makes it not a fit for someone who is looking for more action.

  106. 106.

    PaulW

    May 23, 2015 at 7:12 pm

    So, just to be clear, use of excessive force will always be justified even when the base of the justification is proven false.

    So you might as well empty that entire clip of bullets, psycho angry cop people, because the more you shoot the more you prove you feared for your safety and thus ensure getting away with it. Especially if you can make certain there are no survivors who can testify against you at trial.

    /rage

  107. 107.

    GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)

    May 23, 2015 at 7:14 pm

    Is Ted and Helen going to show up to say it’s fine for white people to kill black people? Only time will tell.

  108. 108.

    PaulW

    May 23, 2015 at 7:16 pm

    Dear cops:

    your badge is not a license to kill.

    you swore an oath to serve and protect, not shoot until empty.

    you argue there are good cops out there, but where are the good cops stopping the bad cops from killing the innocent? Why are the good cops constantly siding with the bad cops who kill us?

    you are the problem here. you are committing acts of violence against unarmed people you already deem ‘dangerous’ without evidence. you are the ones causing the mistrust between yourselves and the communities you’re supposed to serve.

  109. 109.

    fuckwit

    May 23, 2015 at 7:38 pm

    @PhoenixRising: That’s a deep and important question. Unfortunately it’s not so easy to answer. I’d suggest reading the Stanford Prison Experiment and Milgram’s shock experiments.

    In a more practical level, I think we’ve made errors in aggressively trying to get returning combat vets jobs as police officers. Seemed like a good progressive way to take care of our veterans by trying to get them jobs when they come back, but maybe those aren’t the right jobs.

  110. 110.

    Tenar Darell

    May 23, 2015 at 7:45 pm

    @Howard Beale IV: Those cars and/or videos actually exist. They’re mostly taken on the U.S. side of the southern border when people get pulled over at DHS checkpoints. IIRC there was a This American Life Podcast on it; this one I think.

  111. 111.

    Mnemosyne (tablet)

    May 23, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    @ruemara:

    I know I sometimes say shit that people don’t agree with about the entertainment industry, but I honestly don’t understand how any white person with half a brain in this country can look at what’s going on with police departments coast to coast and NOT see the racism. I just don’t. Ignoring it or downplaying it goes beyond implicit bias and verges on flat-out racism, if it’s not already there.

  112. 112.

    Mike G

    May 23, 2015 at 7:59 pm

    @Tom Q:

    As much as we think juries are too apt to let cops skate free, I think judges are a worse hope.

    DAs and judges are often part of the same corrupt predatory racket as the cops.
    In my area we had a cop forging paperwork to rack up more DUI arrests. When one of the DUI cases went to court the judge refused to allow any evidence of the cop’s forgery. (The cop was just told by her department to stop doing it, then promoted). They won’t do anything to interrupt the gravy train of DUI money into the cops/courts/jails complex.

  113. 113.

    Mnemosyne (tablet)

    May 23, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    @fuckwit:

    Interesting article from a couple of years ago about the Stanford Prison Experiment — it can be argued that the “guards” were encouraged and even coached to act the way they did:

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201310/why-zimbardo-s-prison-experiment-isn-t-in-my-textbook

    Which, to me, is a further argument that our current way of policing isn’t what “naturally” happens when a normal person becomes a police officer. We are selecting specific kinds of people to become cops, and training them in ways that exacerbate their authoritarian and controlling tendencies.

    The Stanford Prison Experimenr proved that people will live up to the expectations that others have of them, and that’s exactly what’s happening with our cops. We hire and train them in a specific way and then we’re shocked when they do what they were hired and trained to do. So maybe we need to look at who we’re hiring and how we train them before we decide that there’s no other way to have police.

  114. 114.

    Howard Beale IV

    May 23, 2015 at 10:33 pm

    @Tenar Darell: I’ve seen enough of these that just pisses me enough six ways from Sundays.

  115. 115.

    Tenar Darell

    May 23, 2015 at 11:32 pm

    @Howard Beale IV: Yeah, the videos are weirdly mesmerizing, then infuriating.

  116. 116.

    Arclite

    May 24, 2015 at 3:16 am

    @greennotGreen:

    You know how all Muslims are expected to speak out against the extremists and black leaders are supposed to speak out against the rioters? Where are the good cops speaking out against the murders?

    The “good” cops are waiting for the “murderers” to get off scott free so they don’t have to call them out. Now that they’ve been acquitted, they’re “officers justified in the user of force” instead of “murderers.”

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