Heh. My daughter turned 21 today. Feeling you, Betty.
2.
JPL
Betty, College Freshmen didn’t live in a world without google. Now that one even made my thirty something sons feel old.
3.
Cervantes
How can infants who were born in September 1994 be old enough to drink?
In fact, they may not be old enough to drink — but the state thinks they’re old enough to buy.
4.
Oatler.
The Corporation requires it and all the wheels must be grea$ed. MADD can roast in Hell.
5.
Shana
Both my kids are now old enough to drink. Sigh, there go the evenings of both Hubby and I being able to drink with our dinners when we go out and having an automatic designated driver.
6.
TheMightyTrowel
I teach at a university. In 2.5 years every single one of my first year students will have been born in 2000 or later.
(ETA: except the mature students! cannot forget the mature students! they are the bestest!)
7.
gogol's wife
Tell me about it. I spend my day with people born 1994-97.
8.
ThresherK (GPad)
The nephew’s wedding was yesterday. They are both 30, and at one point the DJ played a set of dance music, none of it which I or my wife knew.
This is in contrast to the spring wedding of a 44- and 37- y.o. we attended.
So, somewhere in their 30s, America’s urban-suburban white youth’s music is making me passe.
I always have my taste in 1920S mass to fall back on.
I get to feel like a curmudgeon every summer when we have summer student interns, and I get to tell them that I’ve been working for my current employer since before they were born.
@Waldo: my youngest went off to college this month. The typical freshman is alcohol-obsessed, this comes from overhearing conversations. However, I tried to get my son to drink a beer, and he refused. I have told him repeatedly that he is taunting death, because when his friends finally talk him into drinking he will poison himself. He seems unconcerned. I think it may help him with the ladies, I really don’t think they are interested in hearing about a guy’s drinking exploits.
16.
SFAW
You think you’re old and they’re young? Well, in MY day, the olds were as old as Methuselah and the “infants” were … were …
Wait, what was I saying?
Hey you whippersnappers, get offa my lawn!
ETA: Go METS!
17.
Renie
College drinking has really gotten out of hand. I read in last month’s Psychology Today that about a dozen colleges license their logo to Kraft to have molds made so kids can use the mold for ice in shots. I thought this was so irresponsible of colleges…anything for a buck.
In other news, I’ve never been obsessed with a movie like this since Star Wars in the 1970’s, but Mad Max: Fury Road is in my brain.
For Oscar reasons, I think, they re-released the film this week for a few IMAX theaters. One of them is in Sommerville, MA, so even though I’ve seen the movie a dozen times now, I’ve got tickets and am psyched.
If you didn’t see it in the theater and wanted to, find out if its playing in IMAX near you. It will blow your mind.
23.
Amir Khalid
@redshirt:
What makes alcohol haram is not what it’s made of, but the fact that it’s an intoxicant. The movie got that wrong. Sorry.
I have long advocated for a maximum drinking age rather than a minimum. You see a drunk 19-year old and you think “Eh, stupid kid.” You see a drunk 50-year old and you think “That is pathetic.”
I am rethinking my position as I creep toward 50….
26.
NotMax
Have long postulated that everyone eventually reaches a day when they look up and think “When did they start hiring policeboys?”
On that day one crosses over into the old lane on the highway of life..
A lot of our local establishments ID everybody, regardless. It keeps them from getting fined for clerk’s errors. I always snicker a bit when they ID my 65 year old self.
34.
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: See, that’s where Christianity has Islam beat – we can just go confess our sins, atone for them and get forgiveness not just in this life, but in a fairly short period of time.
@Amir Khalid: Amazing to me that you get compliance, as one of my “rule of thumbs” is “don’t legislate against human nature wherever possible”.
So, in America, the War on Drugs has been a dismal, tragic failure which convinced me that despite the dangers, people will still get fucked up. Given this premise, prohibition is doomed to fail and instead we should manage the issues instead.
But it seems the entire Islamic world is quite serious about their prohibition (I’m sure there are plenty of exceptions but they seem to be rare rather than the norm), and I wonder how this is possible.
Do the nations of Islam lack drinking cultures in general, even prior to Islam?
I mean, I can’t imagine Germany or Italy ever turning Islamic for this very reason – give up wine? Give up beer? No thank you, Sir, good day.
Something that makes me feel old is supposedly respectable empirically driven economists, professors of a supposedly empirical science, puling numbers out of the air to justify Jeb?”s supply side super double down double dog dare voodoo supply side economics. And apparently trying to give support to GOP efforts to get magical dynamic scoring as part of Congressional budget analysis.
See today’s Economists View blog for link to Brad DeLong’s discouraged report on a Brookings panel, and Dean Baker’s Beat the Press blog at CEPR. Martin Feldstein and Glenn Hubbard. Hubbard? Dow 30 umpty thousand Hubbard?
Did Jeb? really let the truth slip and say “You have to let the big dog’s eat?” I hope so, since that is a much sounder analysis of his retrograde and hashed over double down on failed fiscal policy, and also one that will have more impact on his campaign.
@NotMax: I think there’s quite a few cash registers – and more everyday – where they can’t complete the sale of alcohol without putting in a birthdate. So either they make it up or they card you.
40.
bystander
My first computer was a sliderule. I loved doing trig with it. Simple pleasures, long gone. Now I’d probably just use it as a backscratcher.
Yea, no. That particular get out of jail free card is used by far too many people to justify bad behavior (e.g. Davis, Kim).
What about coffee, tea, tobacco, Amir?
42.
MomSense
My third kid is a Xcountry runner. I just got the team schedule and I’m looking forward to the Autumn stand around in fields and wait for a glimpse of kids as they run by in the distance.
If anyone here is a fan of running, there have been some articles comparing Maine runners to Kenyan runners because a bunch of Maine runners are some of the best in the country right now. It’s kind of fun to read about the top US runners and remember them pimply faced from Jr. High meets.
My hypothesis is that Maine is such a non-competitive state that our athletes are spared the perils of over training at a young age. They are healthy, injury free, and not burned out when they head off to college.
Reminded of the time one grandmother went to the Brazilian embassy for a visa and the computer spit out her application because she “didn’t exist.”
Her birth year began with 18. The computer was set up to only recognize the last two digits in a year, and that year in the 20th century hadn’t yet been reached. Some frantic scrambling then ensued to find someone – anyone – who still knew how to process the application by hand.
44.
seaboogie
@Omnes Omnibus: Yep – and that is one deeply prolonged and uncomfortable hangover if you haven’t managed your intoxicating love wisely.
45.
Amir Khalid
@redshirt:
Tolerance for drinking alcohol in predominantly Muslim communities varies with how overtly pious people are, which itself varies with place and time. For instance, Malaysian Muslims are notably less tolerant of drinking than we were as recently as 20 years ago.
46.
Aleta
Something has come unbalanced when the announcement of which universities made a list of top 10 party schools is treated as big news.
I don’t think they get 100% compliance, and they don’t get especially close without some heavy handed government enforcement.
51.
Calouste
@redshirt: And Mitt Romney went to France to try make the French accept the alcohol-abstaining Mormon faith. And not just France, specifically Bordeaux.
It’s funny, though, when the same server IDs you for ordering a drink and then offers you the Senior Discount.
ETA: Damn you, NotMax #35!
53.
Amir Khalid
@Aleta:
I think the world would really be out of balance if universities started promoting themselves on the basis of a high position in the party-school list.
I don’t think they get 100% compliance, and they don’t get especially close without some heavy handed government enforcement.
I’m sure. And maybe the fear of punishment is greater via Islam than the US government. But we’ve had a 30 year war to try and prohibit drugs and it’s literally been a disaster, not just for many millions in America, but many more people in Central and South America.
” That particular get out of jail free card is used by far too many people to justify bad behavior ”
I think worse in US than many other countries: the ‘joyful’ sinner Calvinism invented in the mid 19th century as a marketing gimmick go draw in people who did not enjoy the thoroughly dour result of systematized legalistic Calvinism. Put it together with spiritual pride and it breeds a type of insanity. Insanity of the type that allows ‘Bible believing’ protestants to be absolutists in premarital sex, birth control and abortion and gay marriage when the New Testament says virtually nothing absolute about it, but feel free to divorce away, when the only thing that can be interpreted as an absolute law given by the JC man himself, is divorce, save for adultery.
Amir should look onto to Turkey if he would like to tipple. When I was there, I had a great time drinking a few beers with some good Muslim Turks who explained to me that Allah was infinitely merciful as well as infinitely just, and if one drank sparingly and very responsibly, it was a small mercy. They viewed themselves was true Muslims, unlike some rich dudes who flew in for Ramadan to party down and get stinking drunk the moment the sun went down.
Edit: I remember one guy telling me that when the party hardy Muslims who flew into Turkey for Ramadan waited until evening to consume, that attempt at observance did not count in Allah’s eyes, since they were too wrecked from the night before to get out of bed until sundown anyway.
56.
trollhattan
@bystander:
Don’t know where, certainly don’t know why, but my bro recently acquired a ginormous demo slide rule evidently once used for skewlin’ the youngins on their operation. Sent me a pic–it’s YUUUGE. Classy rating yet to be determined.
My grandparents tried to foist a cane sofa set off on me years ago, and I demurred. Have regretted it ever since! You can find newer ones, but not of similar quality…
59.
shell
You feel old, Betty? The legal drinking age was eighteen back in my day. Remember going to buy a six pack and was kinda disappointed that they never asked for ID. But then in my mid-20s it seemed I got carded all the time. Course that was down at the Jersey Shore where business’ were especially paranoid.
60.
Eric U.
@Aleta: Penn State sometimes makes those lists. I think at some point there is no point in worrying about absolute rankings. We are pros, the drunk in public stuff doesn’t even go to county court like it used to, there is a special magistrate for it in town. Hopefully you don’t need ER services on weekends, they are full of alcohol overdoses. Oh, and the weekend starts on Tuesday, because Hump day is too late in the week to get a proper start.
Is this the sort of metric that they use to determine if a school is a “party school”?
61.
Aleta
@Amir Khalid: University administrators are somewhat complicit in considering this publicity that helps recruitment. Enrollment does go up in some places afterward.
Dr. Phill assures us Trump’s (apparently of) repeated comments that his own daughter is so hot he would like to date her if he were not her father, are not creepy.
Dr. Phil: ‘Nothing Creepy’ In Trump’s Jokes About Dating His Own Daughter
“Well, you know, he doesn’t have an edit button, he doesn’t have a muzzle,” …. “Right now, he’s just talking and he doesn’t have the ability to really have any consequences to what he says,”
Well, OK, then. I guess that is psychological analysis of a sort. Not quite what I need to feel comfortable having a guy like Trump as president. Some might say Dr. Phil’s analysis is a little wide of the mark.
67.
kdaug
I am possessed with apparently “youthful-looking” genes, so I kind of see this both ways. I got carded for cigarettes a couple months ago (yeah, filthy habit, bite me.).
I’m 48.
68.
seaboogie
@MomSense: I like your hypothesis, and believe that it rings true. I was a middling runner in jr. high, and there is something about doing that when your hormonal sap starts running, especially in the autumn, and you are dealing with a new and unfamiliar intensity of feeling. Going from “play”, to a more driven activity when you are full of strong new urges is natural.
I used to live in Marin County, CA (now in much mellower Sonoma), and the pressure on these kids from wealthy successful parents was astonishing. It was like they had a high-pressure career when they were young teens.
@trollhattan: I’ve seen the same, and I don’t blame them – if they’re in America or Europe, the only restriction is their conscience, and fuck that shit. CHUG! CHUG! CHUG!
I just wonder how Saudi Arabia, as an example, can enforce such strict prohibition. If that was America, every other house would have a still going.
Faint praise, jackass. Come back when you have your extolling shorts trousers on.
ETA: edited for clarity.
71.
Honus
During Vietnam, and in fact until Reagan raised it in 1983 as a prerequisite for getting highway funds, most states had a drinking age of 18. The reasoning we that if you could get drafts and maybe killed in a war, you should be able to buy a drink. And vote. And I still think that’s a good policy
72.
Emma
@Aleta: I attended the University of Virginia for a year in the 1980s. Even back then schools were rated for their fun times. UVa rated “professional.”
My father got remarried and had a brand new (better) family, and those kids are now all 19-24 and it’s sad to see 3 out of the 4 sink into the morass of alcohol and drug abuse. I remember like yesterday when they were knee high cuties, and now the 3rd oldest is doing coke and getting the cops called on her for excessively loud partying.
Adulthood – the corruption of all innocence.
74.
Ryan
I remember the first class I taught at college and thinking that none of my students were alive when I watched the Berlin Wall torn down on TV. Hell, I was a toddler during Grenada but remember some of the imagery.
Don’t know where, certainly don’t know why, but my bro recently acquired a ginormous demo slide rule evidently once used for skewlin’ the youngins on their operation.
They are, unsurprisingly, available on eBay. Why anyone would want one is another question.
Setting aside the ridiculous pressure some of these parents and schools put on kids to perform, it isn’t good for their developing bodies to push too much at a young age.
81.
Amir Khalid
@redshirt:
From what I know, it’s a lot like Prohibition was in the US: for the less pious among the elite, it’s a popular forbidden luxury; for their counterparts among the 99% it’s well out of reach unless they want to risk making bootleg booze.
I knew a few Saudi’s and Kuwaiti’s in grad school too, but they were not like the stories I have heard. They were regular guys who were married and worked hard, and didn’t shirk or think they were entitled to slide by or cut corners, and besides a lite beer once in awhile, I never knew them to party. But you had to be a math nerd to survive in my program, and I guess a nerd is a nerd is a nerd the world round.
I kind of shudder that we were rude to one of them when some brutal domestic Saudi law episode hit the news, and we asked if he beat his wife. He gave us this look like “OMG!’ but he laughed and said ‘No, never I don’t do that. We don’t live together that way.’.
Then there is the group of Yemeni’s living down the block. I walked past one of them who had previously told me he was a good Muslim, but left Yemen because too many people there were crazy about their religion. standing out on the sidewalk shooting the breeze with neighbors while sucking on a oil can of Fosters. I gave him a surprised look and he says “well, I told you, they are too crazy about religion there to live a life. That is why I am here..Allah is merciful.’
Then he introduced me to this hot young lady he was with in a tank top and cut-offs. “Here, say hello to my daughter, visiting from back east from college. Very smart, she is doing great in school. I am so proud.”
So, I guess I should be scared of them. Might be a terrorist cell, but if they are, they are under very deep cover.
@Amir Khalid:
OK, just wanted to give you an option. Always good to know your options.
83.
Calouste
@Steeplejack (phone): Trying to convert a Bordeaux winegrower to Mormonism definitely has less chance of success than trying to get shot by the Vietcong. I’m not sure I would use the exact phrase “tougher” for it though.
84.
raven
Hell, I’ve been sober that long after 30 years of hard living!
Of course the day the Somerville Theatre can handle IMAX is a long way away.
90.
raven
@Amir Khalid: My buddy Abdul Mufstafa Mufstafa, math professor from Kuwait, could drink and play liars poker with the best of em!
91.
Gin & Tonic
@MomSense: They must keep the good stuff for themselves.
I found that was the case in Mendoza (Arg.) You can buy a $12 Malbec anywhere in the US, but the good stuff never leaves Argentina, and the really good stuff doesn’t leave Mendoza. Some of the Gran Reservas we had were absolutely outstanding, but when you produce 3,000 cases per year, there just isn’t much to go around.
I was pretty shocked when I saw Davis Square a couple years ago. It has become really chi chi.
Only used to go there once in a very long while. The thing that I miss is the loss of all the used book stores in Harvard Square. I would spend hours in them, could barely carry all the great stuff I found.
Doesn’t make me feel old, but it makes me mournful.
I just wonder how Saudi Arabia, as an example, can enforce such strict prohibition.
I would guess that a big part of it is a lack of a tradition of drinking. Prohibition sucked in the US because there were plenty of people who were used to drinking and didn’t want to give it up. If you have a culture where drinking isn’t so deeply ingrained, prohibition might actually succeed in suppressing alcohol production effectively.
I got my BS at 34, starting college for the 3rd time at 30. I found it – interesting to be in a study group with 20 year olds. Making 4.0 and getting to wear brightly colored sashes and ropes at graduation.
I made the Dean’s list a few semesters, but got to wear a black robe like most everyone else. When we went to a cousin’s graduation lastg year (same U as I attended) it seemed as if 25% of the students had honors of one sort or another.
Cousin recruited by USC and UNLV for high-energy physics, full ride, plus salary as TA, double major math and physics, they have a rigorous math department at the MU.
I think the world would really be out of balance if universities started promoting themselves on the basis of a high position in the party-school list
Ah, Amir, you’ve not heard of Texas’s new “Concealed Carry On Campus” law? Nobody wants it, mass protests against it, stupid law that’ll lead to nothing but dead kids, but yet – hmm, somehow – the NRA managed to get some troglodytes on the leg.
One day, people will pay attention to the under-the-radar elections here. Until then, we’re fucked 10 ways to Sunday by the bottom-of-the-ballot bullshit that no one pays attention to.
Prohibition in the U.S. never forbade the consumption of alcohol, but did make the manufacture, transport and (especially) sale of intoxicating alcohol illegal. In fact, home production of wines and ciders for personal/family use was specifically granted an exemption in the Volstead Act, up to 200 gallons per year.
99.
raven
My buddy Abdul Mufstafa Mufstafa, math professor from Kuwait, could drink with the best of em!
Though as long as thread is on the topics of recreational drugs, it reminds me my Yemeni neighbors told me that they would give me some qat to try, see how I liked it. I have to remind them about that. They talked like it was legal and they still chew regularly. but I probably should look it up to make sure.
@jl: Mamasan chewed beetle nut and it fucked up some choppers!
103.
Mike G
I sometimes go for pizza in a nearby college town where they ID everybody as a rule since nine-tenths of their clientele is college-age.
So I’m being asked for ID by a kid who wasn’t even born when I turned 21. It just struck me funny.
I started working on campus when I was 35. I’m used to it now, but for the first few months it was depressing to realize how old I was compared to the students.
@raven: Wiki says either spelling is OK. And says its legal status is ambiguous. The psychoactive chemical in it is a Schedule 1 drug but the plant itself is only specifically outlawed in Missouri.
So, yeah, I guess I’ll have to remember to have a little talk about that with my Yemeni neighbors.
Not sure much likelihood of a qat/khat bust in San Francisco, though.
105.
scav
I had one friend that did fieldwork in Nigeria sometime with a Muslim man who would bring out the beers and announce “alhaji, he not not home.” and off they’d go. Another friend told me how she had to carry a license as an infidel to get drinks in Pakistan. I somehow suppose forging IDs might be a universal teenage hobby, although there’s a certain charm to team Naija (we rather came to use the phrase as a personal toast).
Wa-a-a-ay too labor intensive to harvest beetle nuts. :)
108.
Oatler.
@jl: Khat’s illegal everywhere thanks to the DEA. Friends who traveled the HIppie Trail in Bali etc during the 70s are now appalled by the current savagery of the drug laws.
Prohibition in the U.S. never forbade the consumption of alcohol, but did make the manufacture, transport and (especially) sale of intoxicating alcohol illegal.
Note also that the only thing banned was alcohol for beverage purposes. Alcohol for industrial, medicinal, or religious purposes was still legal. The oldest winery in my area was able to stay in business during Prohibition by making sacramental wine for the Church. I get the impression that there were some doctors who were fairly free with their prescribing privileges, too.
@raven: chewing betel nut maybe nearly as bad as chewing tobacco. What is worse, I think mixing both are common. From what I read, khat doesn’t have nearly as bad effects, or maybe only with heavy long term use.
But it seems the entire Islamic world is quite serious about their prohibition (I’m sure there are plenty of exceptions but they seem to be rare rather than the norm), and I wonder how this is possible.
Do the nations of Islam lack drinking cultures in general, even prior to Islam?
These cultures have a long history of bending rules and finding ways around oppressive governments.
I have Iranian expat friends who tell me that the educated population in Tehran drink almost as much as Westerners, and booze is easy to get. They just have to keep it indoors and be discreet, but their parties are much like ours. They think their government is a pack of stupid prudes.
112.
Schlemazel
@redshirt:
The boys experience in the middle East was that many of the people he met acted like Southern Baptists in the US. Those that wanted to drink never did it where they were likely to be seen by neighbors. I assume those that want to abide do and those that “sin and fall short of the glory of God ” try to do it out of sight.
I used to read the police blotter for Minneapolis (the near big city) and was aware that many of those arrested for buying sex – particularly gay sex came from small towns. Often it was Reverend or deacon.
113.
Doug R
@JohnnyHitNRunPraline: Mine turned 21 last week. She does not know a world in which there are no Simpsons. Kind of like me with the Flinstones I guess.
@Oatler.: Yeah, looks like it is illegal in a lot of places outside North Africa and some Gulf States. And cultivation is highly regulated in Yemen, but because it is so water intensive to grow, Wiki says.
Kind of an interesting sidelight that German-Americans were staunchly and actively anti-Prohibition, but WW1 effectively rendered that constituency moot as a political voice.
117.
PurpleGirl
@bystander: I still sometimes use my sliderule to compute stitch counts when I change a crochet pattern guage.
she had to carry a license as an infidel to get drinks in Pakistan
I’d love to see what an infidel license looks like.
It would make a great souvenir. I’d carry it with pride.
119.
Ruviana
@trollhattan: They had those slide rules in my junior high! I never actually learned how to use one though. #mathphobe
120.
Schlemazel
The first time my actual age hit me I was at the mall and a ravaging pack of cheerleaders walked past. Looking at their graduation years on their sleeves it hit me that the youngest of the pack was born the year I graduated high school. Insignificant really but it put my age into perspective.
121.
Doug R
Sometime after 2000 when I stepped into a high school, I realized ALL the students there were born since it graduated. Man did I feel old.
Didn’t go there much. The place I gravitated to was about a quarter-mile from Out of Town, possibly on Church St, big plate glass window with the frame around it painted bright blue. The main floor was OK, nothing special, but the basement was outstanding.
Besides the slide rule, we were also taught the use of the abacus in elementary school. Each student was provided one (we had to purchase the slide rules, though).
I have Iranian expat friends who tell me that the educated population in Tehran drink almost as much as Westerners, and booze is easy to get.
Among countries where alcohol is forbidden to Muslims, per capita consumption is highest in Iran.
126.
Schlemazel
@NotMax:
They almost got beer exempted from Prohibition. But, like you noted, there was still some anti German hangover
127.
J R in WV
Just last summer my youngest cousin was out to the farm for visiting and target practice with old family guns from Grandmother’s farm. One was a 1903 Colt .32 automatic that was in the bathroom closet my entire life.
The first time he brought it out we had no ammunition. Last summer we each had a box. We loaded it, and I held it out with one hand. It jammed after the first round, but the rest of fired rounds were flawless.
We were done shooting, one clip each, and were looking at the 112 y o pistol, and I noticed that the checker pattern of the grip was worn quite a bit. And Cousin said that was from his dad my Uncle carrying it in his hip pocket running ‘shine into town before WW II.
And Grandma was a Baptist! She had a little store, and sold 50 lb sacks of corn, whole or ground, yeast. sugar, etc. But I think she (and Uncle) thought anything for a profit that didn’t involve work underground.
Then the war happened. Everything changed after that. There were jobs. But Uncle ran shine into town… amazing. He was a straight arrow guy. The pistol was to keep rowdies from stealing the load, not for the police. He was never “caught” as they were providing the best whiskey in town.
Yeah, so do I. I just don’t fit into them anymore.
137.
raven
@J R in WV: Did you clean that weapon before you inserted the magazine?
138.
Schlemazel
@J R in WV:
My dad’s dad had 7 sons and they sold vegetables and coal using trucks granddad bought. When Prohibition ended Theo Hamms offered him distribution for the Twin Cities. Grandma was a Prairie Methodist, no cards, no movies and sure as hell NO BEER!! So he said, no.
The family could have been millionaires but wouldn’t break their beliefs
139.
Thoughtful Today
Read about ?civet? coffee the other day …
… seemed wrong on so_many_levels____
140.
Schlemazel
@NotMax:
All the breweries that survived Prohibition made it in part by selling malt. It was only recently that I finally found out what the malt was used for. You could mix it with “near beer” and let it ferment to make real beer.
Pot laws are strictly adhered to compared to Prohibition
And it took until Carter was president to legalize homebrewed beer again.
Yeah, it took the alcoholic beverage industry a long time to recover. It wasn’t until the 70s and 80s that anyone took American wine seriously, and some people still act surprised that American craft beer is any good.
143.
Ruckus
Betty.
Just went to the VA today. Both of the docs I saw were born maybe 5-6 years earlier. You get used to the idea that you are getting old enough to remember that in 1994 you’d been in relationships that had lasted longer than 21 yrs. Eventually you get used to it. It may have helped that I worked for a decade in a sport mostly participated in by people not old enough to buy alcohol.
144.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore: some people still act surprised that American craft beer is any good.
There also may be the problem that the best selling beer like substances in the US still taste like urine. And weak urine at that.
There also may be the problem that the best selling beer like substances in the US still taste like urine.
Sure, but that’s true of the best selling beer-like substances in plenty of other countries. Yeah, Budweiser sucks ass, but so do Fosters, Labat’s, Corona, Becks, Heineken, etc. It’s all sex in a canoe.
146.
Ruckus
@Chris: All Prohibitionist cultures do is encourage people to lie about their habits, I think. (Or drive them completely underground).
A very, very valid statement.
Example, abortions. You can make them illegal, shut down easy access and you will still have abortions. How many of us have ever participated in the use of illegal drugs? No need for a show of hands but I’d bet it’s higher than many imagine. Especially drugs that have not been illegal for much more than a hundred yrs.
147.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
While I was never a big beer drinker, I’ve tasted some of those brews in their home countries and yes while they weren’t what I’d call acceptable, they were still far better than the popular piss water made in this country.
148.
Tommy
How do you get from IL to Northern CA on a plane fast?
My last not, direct family member lost her husband today.
She lives on a mountain in the middle of no place in CA. Hours from an airport I hear.
Dad said he doesn’t like planes (first I’d heard of this — spent 30+ years working for the Air Force). Not seen her for 30+ years yet SHE VISITED HIM AND SPENT A WEEK IN THEIR HOUSE TWO WEEKS AGO.
I mean you got on the plane right …. it can’t in 2015 be hard to get there from Illinois?
Pot laws are strictly adhered to compared to Prohibition
Yeah, I can only buy 1 ounce a day, and can only plant 6 plants per adult resident. Draconian!
150.
Omnes Omnibus
@A Ghost To Most: Not everyone lives in whatever state you are in and possession of a few ounces could get you federal time.
151.
evap
I’ve been teaching college students since 1981 or so (first as a grad student, then as a professor since 1985). I used to think, “these students were born after the Beatles broke up” and then at some point, “some of them have parents younger than I am”. I’m getting to the point where I think, “some of these students have grandparents younger than I am”. Not quite there yet, but it’s only a matter of time…
There are so many things to make me feel old…thanks for another one n
154.
A Ghost To Most
@Omnes Omnibus:
Fully aware. The feds have shown interest only where it has been warranted,from what I have seen.
I’m just wondering how long the rest of the country is going to put up with the costs of prohibition. Things are working pretty well here so far. Schools are getting funding that they were not getting before.
@Tommy:
Unfortunately, there is generally no fast way to get to the middle of nowhere. You may be able to find a small airport that’s a little bit closer to wherever she lives than one of the major ones, but unless you can fly your own plane- or hire somebody who will fly you there- you probably can’t get really close by air. Your best bet will be to find the closest airport with regular service and drive the rest of the way. It’s going to take a while, assuming there aren’t any fires blocking your route.
158.
Ajabu
I had a group of very young (7 year olds) piano students put it in perspective last year.
Child #1 – (speaking to me) “My friend was going to take lessons but she’s afraid of you because you’re old.”
Child #2 – (leaping to my defense) “I like old people. They always smile at me.”
Child #3 – “My mom is old. She’s 34!”
As the trombone player said when he missed the bus, “I rest my case.”
I work at a university, and it occurred to me recently, as I was having my staff ID swiped to get into the campus fitness center, that the ID card was probably older than the guy swiping it.
@evap:
Getting old may suck, and some days it surly does but as the alternative isn’t quite as good as suck, I’ll take my turn as the guy that’s older than dirt proudly. If only because a few decades ago I never thought I’d make it this far. Hell, 2 or 3 more decades, that should be easy. BTW it won’t be, going downhill on an ever steepening hill at breakneck speed with no brakes or steering is never easy.
163.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@evap: A friend knows someone who was a grandfather at 32, so … ;-)
Some states (Colorado comes to mind) are required to check ID for all alcohol purchases, regardless of age. My reaction always is to say, “bless you for asking.”
I had a group of very young (7 year olds) piano students put it in perspective last year.
Child #1 – (speaking to me) “My friend was going to take lessons but she’s afraid of you because you’re old.”
Child #2 – (leaping to my defense) “I like old people. They always smile at me.”
Child #3 – “My mom is old. She’s 34!”
As the trombone player said when he missed the bus, “I rest my case.”
lol
But don’t you remember mocking adults as a young person – so long ago?
Old people, back then, were also stupid and dumb and clueless. Like all old people, in all times, in the opinions of teenagers and those younger rebellious and ready to rebel.
The kids that were born the year I graduated high school are now old enough to buy beer.
The kids that were born the year I graduated high school were old enough to drink 11 years ago.
In 1981, Texas raised the drinking age from 18 to 19, and then to 21 in 1986. I turned 19 in ’84, so I just managed to stay legal after the ’86 change. My wife, who’s a year and a half younger than me, went from being legal, to being underage for about a year, to being legal again.
My college had a reputation as a party school (well-deserved in the ’70s, but not so much by the time I got there), with something like a dozen bars down the main road from campus. Most of them shut down within a year of the ’86 change. The ones that survived had always catered to locals instead of students.
The thing that freaks me right the fuck out every time I visit my wife’s family in California is walking into a drug store and seeing hard liquor on the shelf. Can’t do that in TX. Beer and wine, sure, but hard liquor can’t be sold anywhere but a liquor store. And of course you can’t buy liquor on Sundays (beer and wine, yes, but not before noon). And most TX counties are still at least partially dry, so sometimes you have to drive a bit to get your booze on.
Took a bartending class way back in the mid-Cretaceous. Our instructor was originally from Boston. He had some … interesting ideas on uniforms for Texas Alcoholic Beverages Comission employees. It started with branding a swastika on the left cheek.
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JohnnyHitNRunPraline
Heh. My daughter turned 21 today. Feeling you, Betty.
JPL
Betty, College Freshmen didn’t live in a world without google. Now that one even made my thirty something sons feel old.
Cervantes
In fact, they may not be old enough to drink — but the state thinks they’re old enough to buy.
Oatler.
The Corporation requires it and all the wheels must be grea$ed. MADD can roast in Hell.
Shana
Both my kids are now old enough to drink. Sigh, there go the evenings of both Hubby and I being able to drink with our dinners when we go out and having an automatic designated driver.
TheMightyTrowel
I teach at a university. In 2.5 years every single one of my first year students will have been born in 2000 or later.
(ETA: except the mature students! cannot forget the mature students! they are the bestest!)
gogol's wife
Tell me about it. I spend my day with people born 1994-97.
ThresherK (GPad)
The nephew’s wedding was yesterday. They are both 30, and at one point the DJ played a set of dance music, none of it which I or my wife knew.
This is in contrast to the spring wedding of a 44- and 37- y.o. we attended.
So, somewhere in their 30s, America’s urban-suburban white youth’s music is making me passe.
I always have my taste in 1920S mass to fall back on.
ThresherK (GPad)
@ThresherK (GPad): Damn you autocorrect! That’s 1920s JAZZ.
Waldo
What liquor store owner sees: Stern warning to potential under-age binge drinkers.
What teens see: Countdown clock to first state-sanctioned binge.
Roger Moore
I get to feel like a curmudgeon every summer when we have summer student interns, and I get to tell them that I’ve been working for my current employer since before they were born.
seaboogie
@Shana: you’ll still have their tech support!
RSA
@ThresherK (GPad):
Oh, sure, blame autocorrect. We can guess how much you love Roaring Twenties church music.
redshirt
We should raise the drinking age to 40.
Eric U.
@Waldo: my youngest went off to college this month. The typical freshman is alcohol-obsessed, this comes from overhearing conversations. However, I tried to get my son to drink a beer, and he refused. I have told him repeatedly that he is taunting death, because when his friends finally talk him into drinking he will poison himself. He seems unconcerned. I think it may help him with the ladies, I really don’t think they are interested in hearing about a guy’s drinking exploits.
SFAW
You think you’re old and they’re young? Well, in MY day, the olds were as old as Methuselah and the “infants” were … were …
Wait, what was I saying?
Hey you whippersnappers, get offa my lawn!
ETA: Go METS!
Renie
College drinking has really gotten out of hand. I read in last month’s Psychology Today that about a dozen colleges license their logo to Kraft to have molds made so kids can use the mold for ice in shots. I thought this was so irresponsible of colleges…anything for a buck.
redshirt
Speaking of drinking, what happened to the heavy drinker from NYC? Young guy, traveled to a west coast meet up, numbers in his user name….
PsiFighter342? Something like that.
Amir Khalid
@redshirt:
Big deal. The legal drinking age for me is “dead and gone to Heaven”.
redshirt
@Amir Khalid: Can’t you drink honey based alcohol? I learned that from the underated Antonio Banderas movie The 13th Warrior so I’m sure it’s true.
ThresherK
@RSA: I’ll always have my
Aimee Semple MacPhersonKing Oliver boxed sets.redshirt
In other news, I’ve never been obsessed with a movie like this since Star Wars in the 1970’s, but Mad Max: Fury Road is in my brain.
For Oscar reasons, I think, they re-released the film this week for a few IMAX theaters. One of them is in Sommerville, MA, so even though I’ve seen the movie a dozen times now, I’ve got tickets and am psyched.
If you didn’t see it in the theater and wanted to, find out if its playing in IMAX near you. It will blow your mind.
Amir Khalid
@redshirt:
What makes alcohol haram is not what it’s made of, but the fact that it’s an intoxicant. The movie got that wrong. Sorry.
Omnes Omnibus
@Amir Khalid: Isn’t love an intoxicant?
Steve in the ATL
I have long advocated for a maximum drinking age rather than a minimum. You see a drunk 19-year old and you think “Eh, stupid kid.” You see a drunk 50-year old and you think “That is pathetic.”
I am rethinking my position as I creep toward 50….
NotMax
Have long postulated that everyone eventually reaches a day when they look up and think “When did they start hiring policeboys?”
On that day one crosses over into the old lane on the highway of life..
Mike J
@Omnes Omnibus: Love is the drug I’m thinking of.
Cacti
The kids that were born the year I graduated high school are now old enough to buy beer.
Yikes.
Amir Khalid
@Omnes Omnibus:
Neil Young says, love is a rose.
redshirt
@Amir Khalid:
What?! A movie misled me?! I never….
Do the same rules apply to drugs? Marijuana? LSD?
Amir Khalid
@Cacti:
Look on the bright side: you’re still under forty, even if only just.
Amir Khalid
@redshirt:
Yep.
gelfling545
A lot of our local establishments ID everybody, regardless. It keeps them from getting fined for clerk’s errors. I always snicker a bit when they ID my 65 year old self.
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: See, that’s where Christianity has Islam beat – we can just go confess our sins, atone for them and get forgiveness not just in this life, but in a fairly short period of time.
NotMax
@gelfling545
One particular supermarket here is polite enough to remember to ask if I want the senior discount.
And then proceeds to card me for booze.
Does. Not. Compute.
Gin & Tonic
@gelfling545: I’ve had that happen a few times, too, and wonder “gray hair isn’t ID enough?”
redshirt
@Amir Khalid: Amazing to me that you get compliance, as one of my “rule of thumbs” is “don’t legislate against human nature wherever possible”.
So, in America, the War on Drugs has been a dismal, tragic failure which convinced me that despite the dangers, people will still get fucked up. Given this premise, prohibition is doomed to fail and instead we should manage the issues instead.
But it seems the entire Islamic world is quite serious about their prohibition (I’m sure there are plenty of exceptions but they seem to be rare rather than the norm), and I wonder how this is possible.
Do the nations of Islam lack drinking cultures in general, even prior to Islam?
I mean, I can’t imagine Germany or Italy ever turning Islamic for this very reason – give up wine? Give up beer? No thank you, Sir, good day.
jl
Something that makes me feel old is supposedly respectable empirically driven economists, professors of a supposedly empirical science, puling numbers out of the air to justify Jeb?”s supply side super double down double dog dare voodoo supply side economics. And apparently trying to give support to GOP efforts to get magical dynamic scoring as part of Congressional budget analysis.
See today’s Economists View blog for link to Brad DeLong’s discouraged report on a Brookings panel, and Dean Baker’s Beat the Press blog at CEPR. Martin Feldstein and Glenn Hubbard. Hubbard? Dow 30 umpty thousand Hubbard?
Did Jeb? really let the truth slip and say “You have to let the big dog’s eat?” I hope so, since that is a much sounder analysis of his retrograde and hashed over double down on failed fiscal policy, and also one that will have more impact on his campaign.
redshirt
@NotMax: I think there’s quite a few cash registers – and more everyday – where they can’t complete the sale of alcohol without putting in a birthdate. So either they make it up or they card you.
bystander
My first computer was a sliderule. I loved doing trig with it. Simple pleasures, long gone. Now I’d probably just use it as a backscratcher.
A Ghost To Most
@Gin & Tonic:
Yea, no. That particular get out of jail free card is used by far too many people to justify bad behavior (e.g. Davis, Kim).
What about coffee, tea, tobacco, Amir?
MomSense
My third kid is a Xcountry runner. I just got the team schedule and I’m looking forward to the Autumn stand around in fields and wait for a glimpse of kids as they run by in the distance.
If anyone here is a fan of running, there have been some articles comparing Maine runners to Kenyan runners because a bunch of Maine runners are some of the best in the country right now. It’s kind of fun to read about the top US runners and remember them pimply faced from Jr. High meets.
My hypothesis is that Maine is such a non-competitive state that our athletes are spared the perils of over training at a young age. They are healthy, injury free, and not burned out when they head off to college.
NotMax
@redshirt
Reminded of the time one grandmother went to the Brazilian embassy for a visa and the computer spit out her application because she “didn’t exist.”
Her birth year began with 18. The computer was set up to only recognize the last two digits in a year, and that year in the 20th century hadn’t yet been reached. Some frantic scrambling then ensued to find someone – anyone – who still knew how to process the application by hand.
seaboogie
@Omnes Omnibus: Yep – and that is one deeply prolonged and uncomfortable hangover if you haven’t managed your intoxicating love wisely.
Amir Khalid
@redshirt:
Tolerance for drinking alcohol in predominantly Muslim communities varies with how overtly pious people are, which itself varies with place and time. For instance, Malaysian Muslims are notably less tolerant of drinking than we were as recently as 20 years ago.
Aleta
Something has come unbalanced when the announcement of which universities made a list of top 10 party schools is treated as big news.
Betty Cracker
@NotMax: Did you get your cane sofa or what?
Tommy
@A Ghost To Most: What about coffee.
NotMax
@Betty Cracker
Yes! Snagged the very last one with cushions still there.
Looks much too good in my hovel. :)
Roger Moore
@redshirt:
I don’t think they get 100% compliance, and they don’t get especially close without some heavy handed government enforcement.
Calouste
@redshirt: And Mitt Romney went to France to try make the French accept the alcohol-abstaining Mormon faith. And not just France, specifically Bordeaux.
SiubhanDuinne
@gelfling545:
It’s funny, though, when the same server IDs you for ordering a drink and then offers you the Senior Discount.
ETA: Damn you, NotMax #35!
Amir Khalid
@Aleta:
I think the world would really be out of balance if universities started promoting themselves on the basis of a high position in the party-school list.
redshirt
@Roger Moore:
I’m sure. And maybe the fear of punishment is greater via Islam than the US government. But we’ve had a 30 year war to try and prohibit drugs and it’s literally been a disaster, not just for many millions in America, but many more people in Central and South America.
jl
@Amir Khalid: @Gin & Tonic: @A Ghost To Most:
” That particular get out of jail free card is used by far too many people to justify bad behavior ”
I think worse in US than many other countries: the ‘joyful’ sinner Calvinism invented in the mid 19th century as a marketing gimmick go draw in people who did not enjoy the thoroughly dour result of systematized legalistic Calvinism. Put it together with spiritual pride and it breeds a type of insanity. Insanity of the type that allows ‘Bible believing’ protestants to be absolutists in premarital sex, birth control and abortion and gay marriage when the New Testament says virtually nothing absolute about it, but feel free to divorce away, when the only thing that can be interpreted as an absolute law given by the JC man himself, is divorce, save for adultery.
Amir should look onto to Turkey if he would like to tipple. When I was there, I had a great time drinking a few beers with some good Muslim Turks who explained to me that Allah was infinitely merciful as well as infinitely just, and if one drank sparingly and very responsibly, it was a small mercy. They viewed themselves was true Muslims, unlike some rich dudes who flew in for Ramadan to party down and get stinking drunk the moment the sun went down.
Edit: I remember one guy telling me that when the party hardy Muslims who flew into Turkey for Ramadan waited until evening to consume, that attempt at observance did not count in Allah’s eyes, since they were too wrecked from the night before to get out of bed until sundown anyway.
trollhattan
@bystander:
Don’t know where, certainly don’t know why, but my bro recently acquired a ginormous demo slide rule evidently once used for skewlin’ the youngins on their operation. Sent me a pic–it’s YUUUGE. Classy rating yet to be determined.
Gene108
@Cacti:
The kids born the year I graduated high school (couple of years before you) have graduated from college and entered the work force
And it seems like just yesterday I turned 23 like they just did this year
Betty Cracker
@NotMax: Yay!
My grandparents tried to foist a cane sofa set off on me years ago, and I demurred. Have regretted it ever since! You can find newer ones, but not of similar quality…
shell
You feel old, Betty? The legal drinking age was eighteen back in my day. Remember going to buy a six pack and was kinda disappointed that they never asked for ID. But then in my mid-20s it seemed I got carded all the time. Course that was down at the Jersey Shore where business’ were especially paranoid.
Eric U.
@Aleta: Penn State sometimes makes those lists. I think at some point there is no point in worrying about absolute rankings. We are pros, the drunk in public stuff doesn’t even go to county court like it used to, there is a special magistrate for it in town. Hopefully you don’t need ER services on weekends, they are full of alcohol overdoses. Oh, and the weekend starts on Tuesday, because Hump day is too late in the week to get a proper start.
Is this the sort of metric that they use to determine if a school is a “party school”?
Aleta
@Amir Khalid: University administrators are somewhat complicit in considering this publicity that helps recruitment. Enrollment does go up in some places afterward.
MomSense
@SiubhanDuinne:
A couple weeks ago I went out to dinner with my kids. My oldest wasn’t carded but I was. We had a good laugh about it.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Calouste:
So, tougher than ’Nam, then? Mitt made the hard choice.
trollhattan
@jl:
Went to school with quite a few Kuwaitis and Saudis and let me just say, while they were all raised Muslim those boys loved to PARTY.
Amir Khalid
@jl:
Thank you, but it’s a bit late for me to start trying to develop a taste for alcohol.
jl
Dr. Phill assures us Trump’s (apparently of) repeated comments that his own daughter is so hot he would like to date her if he were not her father, are not creepy.
Dr. Phil: ‘Nothing Creepy’ In Trump’s Jokes About Dating His Own Daughter
“Well, you know, he doesn’t have an edit button, he doesn’t have a muzzle,” …. “Right now, he’s just talking and he doesn’t have the ability to really have any consequences to what he says,”
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/dr-phil-donald-trump-ivanka
Well, OK, then. I guess that is psychological analysis of a sort. Not quite what I need to feel comfortable having a guy like Trump as president. Some might say Dr. Phil’s analysis is a little wide of the mark.
kdaug
I am possessed with apparently “youthful-looking” genes, so I kind of see this both ways. I got carded for cigarettes a couple months ago (yeah, filthy habit, bite me.).
I’m 48.
seaboogie
@MomSense: I like your hypothesis, and believe that it rings true. I was a middling runner in jr. high, and there is something about doing that when your hormonal sap starts running, especially in the autumn, and you are dealing with a new and unfamiliar intensity of feeling. Going from “play”, to a more driven activity when you are full of strong new urges is natural.
I used to live in Marin County, CA (now in much mellower Sonoma), and the pressure on these kids from wealthy successful parents was astonishing. It was like they had a high-pressure career when they were young teens.
redshirt
@trollhattan: I’ve seen the same, and I don’t blame them – if they’re in America or Europe, the only restriction is their conscience, and fuck that shit. CHUG! CHUG! CHUG!
I just wonder how Saudi Arabia, as an example, can enforce such strict prohibition. If that was America, every other house would have a still going.
kdaug
@TheMightyTrowel:
Faint praise, jackass. Come back when you have your extolling
shortstrousers on.ETA: edited for clarity.
Honus
During Vietnam, and in fact until Reagan raised it in 1983 as a prerequisite for getting highway funds, most states had a drinking age of 18. The reasoning we that if you could get drafts and maybe killed in a war, you should be able to buy a drink. And vote. And I still think that’s a good policy
Emma
@Aleta: I attended the University of Virginia for a year in the 1980s. Even back then schools were rated for their fun times. UVa rated “professional.”
redshirt
My father got remarried and had a brand new (better) family, and those kids are now all 19-24 and it’s sad to see 3 out of the 4 sink into the morass of alcohol and drug abuse. I remember like yesterday when they were knee high cuties, and now the 3rd oldest is doing coke and getting the cops called on her for excessively loud partying.
Adulthood – the corruption of all innocence.
Ryan
I remember the first class I taught at college and thinking that none of my students were alive when I watched the Berlin Wall torn down on TV. Hell, I was a toddler during Grenada but remember some of the imagery.
Quaker in a Basement
1994? I got pants older than that.
Roger Moore
@trollhattan:
They are, unsurprisingly, available on eBay. Why anyone would want one is another question.
SFAW
@redshirt:
Must be Davis Square.
Or Coolidge Corner.
(Yes, I know.)
redshirt
@SFAW: No, they built an entirely new “neighborhood” called Assembly Square. It’s even got its own new subway stop. Pretty convenient.
SFAW
@efgoldman:
Song-and-dance men?
MomSense
@SFAW:
I was pretty shocked when I saw Davis Square a couple years ago. It has become really chi chi.
@seaboogie:
Setting aside the ridiculous pressure some of these parents and schools put on kids to perform, it isn’t good for their developing bodies to push too much at a young age.
Amir Khalid
@redshirt:
From what I know, it’s a lot like Prohibition was in the US: for the less pious among the elite, it’s a popular forbidden luxury; for their counterparts among the 99% it’s well out of reach unless they want to risk making bootleg booze.
jl
@trollhattan:
I knew a few Saudi’s and Kuwaiti’s in grad school too, but they were not like the stories I have heard. They were regular guys who were married and worked hard, and didn’t shirk or think they were entitled to slide by or cut corners, and besides a lite beer once in awhile, I never knew them to party. But you had to be a math nerd to survive in my program, and I guess a nerd is a nerd is a nerd the world round.
I kind of shudder that we were rude to one of them when some brutal domestic Saudi law episode hit the news, and we asked if he beat his wife. He gave us this look like “OMG!’ but he laughed and said ‘No, never I don’t do that. We don’t live together that way.’.
Then there is the group of Yemeni’s living down the block. I walked past one of them who had previously told me he was a good Muslim, but left Yemen because too many people there were crazy about their religion. standing out on the sidewalk shooting the breeze with neighbors while sucking on a oil can of Fosters. I gave him a surprised look and he says “well, I told you, they are too crazy about religion there to live a life. That is why I am here..Allah is merciful.’
Then he introduced me to this hot young lady he was with in a tank top and cut-offs. “Here, say hello to my daughter, visiting from back east from college. Very smart, she is doing great in school. I am so proud.”
So, I guess I should be scared of them. Might be a terrorist cell, but if they are, they are under very deep cover.
@Amir Khalid:
OK, just wanted to give you an option. Always good to know your options.
Calouste
@Steeplejack (phone): Trying to convert a Bordeaux winegrower to Mormonism definitely has less chance of success than trying to get shot by the Vietcong. I’m not sure I would use the exact phrase “tougher” for it though.
raven
Hell, I’ve been sober that long after 30 years of hard living!
NotMax
@trollhattan
Tip learned in elementary school for wooden slide rules (still have mine):
Use a little talcum powder as a lubricant to facilitate ease of sliding.
MomSense
@Calouste:
I would love a glass of really good Bordeaux. I can still remember a bottle I drank in Bordeaux. They must keep the good stuff for themselves.
Chris
@redshirt:
I’m not much of a drinker, but I’ve been in bars in Cairo and Beirut, and if every local in there was a Christian, I’ll eat my hat.
All Prohibitionist cultures do is encourage people to lie about their habits, I think. (Or drive them completely underground).
Aleta
@Steeplejack (phone): Mitt is all service.
SFAW
@redshirt:
Re-read my last line.
Am I prescient or what?
(The answer is probably “or what.”)
Of course the day the Somerville Theatre can handle IMAX is a long way away.
raven
@Amir Khalid: My buddy Abdul Mufstafa Mufstafa, math professor from Kuwait, could drink and play liars poker with the best of em!
Gin & Tonic
@MomSense: They must keep the good stuff for themselves.
I found that was the case in Mendoza (Arg.) You can buy a $12 Malbec anywhere in the US, but the good stuff never leaves Argentina, and the really good stuff doesn’t leave Mendoza. Some of the Gran Reservas we had were absolutely outstanding, but when you produce 3,000 cases per year, there just isn’t much to go around.
SFAW
@MomSense:
Only used to go there once in a very long while. The thing that I miss is the loss of all the used book stores in Harvard Square. I would spend hours in them, could barely carry all the great stuff I found.
Doesn’t make me feel old, but it makes me mournful.
Roger Moore
@redshirt:
I would guess that a big part of it is a lack of a tradition of drinking. Prohibition sucked in the US because there were plenty of people who were used to drinking and didn’t want to give it up. If you have a culture where drinking isn’t so deeply ingrained, prohibition might actually succeed in suppressing alcohol production effectively.
J R in WV
@TheMightyTrowel:
I got my BS at 34, starting college for the 3rd time at 30. I found it – interesting to be in a study group with 20 year olds. Making 4.0 and getting to wear brightly colored sashes and ropes at graduation.
I made the Dean’s list a few semesters, but got to wear a black robe like most everyone else. When we went to a cousin’s graduation lastg year (same U as I attended) it seemed as if 25% of the students had honors of one sort or another.
Cousin recruited by USC and UNLV for high-energy physics, full ride, plus salary as TA, double major math and physics, they have a rigorous math department at the MU.
raven
Go Falcoms!
kdaug
@Amir Khalid:
Ah, Amir, you’ve not heard of Texas’s new “Concealed Carry On Campus” law? Nobody wants it, mass protests against it, stupid law that’ll lead to nothing but dead kids, but yet – hmm, somehow – the NRA managed to get some troglodytes on the leg.
One day, people will pay attention to the under-the-radar elections here. Until then, we’re fucked 10 ways to Sunday by the bottom-of-the-ballot bullshit that no one pays attention to.
MomSense
@Gin & Tonic:
Another reason to add travel to Argentina to my bucket list.
@SFAW:
I miss the used book stores, too. Harvard Sq. has all the same stores as Anywhere, USA now. At least Schoenhof’s still lives!
NotMax
@Amir Khalid
Prohibition in the U.S. never forbade the consumption of alcohol, but did make the manufacture, transport and (especially) sale of intoxicating alcohol illegal. In fact, home production of wines and ciders for personal/family use was specifically granted an exemption in the Volstead Act, up to 200 gallons per year.
raven
My buddy Abdul Mufstafa Mufstafa, math professor from Kuwait, could drink with the best of em!
jl
Though as long as thread is on the topics of recreational drugs, it reminds me my Yemeni neighbors told me that they would give me some qat to try, see how I liked it. I have to remind them about that. They talked like it was legal and they still chew regularly. but I probably should look it up to make sure.
raven
@jl: same as khat I spect.
raven
@jl: Mamasan chewed beetle nut and it fucked up some choppers!
Mike G
I sometimes go for pizza in a nearby college town where they ID everybody as a rule since nine-tenths of their clientele is college-age.
So I’m being asked for ID by a kid who wasn’t even born when I turned 21. It just struck me funny.
I started working on campus when I was 35. I’m used to it now, but for the first few months it was depressing to realize how old I was compared to the students.
jl
@raven: Wiki says either spelling is OK. And says its legal status is ambiguous. The psychoactive chemical in it is a Schedule 1 drug but the plant itself is only specifically outlawed in Missouri.
So, yeah, I guess I’ll have to remember to have a little talk about that with my Yemeni neighbors.
Not sure much likelihood of a qat/khat bust in San Francisco, though.
scav
I had one friend that did fieldwork in Nigeria sometime with a Muslim man who would bring out the beers and announce “alhaji, he not not home.” and off they’d go. Another friend told me how she had to carry a license as an infidel to get drinks in Pakistan. I somehow suppose forging IDs might be a universal teenage hobby, although there’s a certain charm to team Naija (we rather came to use the phrase as a personal toast).
Benw
I’m so old I died!
NotMax
@raven
Betel nut.
Wa-a-a-ay too labor intensive to harvest beetle nuts. :)
Oatler.
@jl: Khat’s illegal everywhere thanks to the DEA. Friends who traveled the HIppie Trail in Bali etc during the 70s are now appalled by the current savagery of the drug laws.
Roger Moore
@NotMax:
Note also that the only thing banned was alcohol for beverage purposes. Alcohol for industrial, medicinal, or religious purposes was still legal. The oldest winery in my area was able to stay in business during Prohibition by making sacramental wine for the Church. I get the impression that there were some doctors who were fairly free with their prescribing privileges, too.
jl
@raven: chewing betel nut maybe nearly as bad as chewing tobacco. What is worse, I think mixing both are common. From what I read, khat doesn’t have nearly as bad effects, or maybe only with heavy long term use.
Kyle
@redshirt:
These cultures have a long history of bending rules and finding ways around oppressive governments.
I have Iranian expat friends who tell me that the educated population in Tehran drink almost as much as Westerners, and booze is easy to get. They just have to keep it indoors and be discreet, but their parties are much like ours. They think their government is a pack of stupid prudes.
Schlemazel
@redshirt:
The boys experience in the middle East was that many of the people he met acted like Southern Baptists in the US. Those that wanted to drink never did it where they were likely to be seen by neighbors. I assume those that want to abide do and those that “sin and fall short of the glory of God ” try to do it out of sight.
I used to read the police blotter for Minneapolis (the near big city) and was aware that many of those arrested for buying sex – particularly gay sex came from small towns. Often it was Reverend or deacon.
Doug R
@JohnnyHitNRunPraline: Mine turned 21 last week. She does not know a world in which there are no Simpsons. Kind of like me with the Flinstones I guess.
A guy
If u can still fuck ur not old
jl
@Oatler.: Yeah, looks like it is illegal in a lot of places outside North Africa and some Gulf States. And cultivation is highly regulated in Yemen, but because it is so water intensive to grow, Wiki says.
NotMax
@Roger Moore
Kind of an interesting sidelight that German-Americans were staunchly and actively anti-Prohibition, but WW1 effectively rendered that constituency moot as a political voice.
PurpleGirl
@bystander: I still sometimes use my sliderule to compute stitch counts when I change a crochet pattern guage.
Mike G
@scav:
I’d love to see what an infidel license looks like.
It would make a great souvenir. I’d carry it with pride.
Ruviana
@trollhattan: They had those slide rules in my junior high! I never actually learned how to use one though. #mathphobe
Schlemazel
The first time my actual age hit me I was at the mall and a ravaging pack of cheerleaders walked past. Looking at their graduation years on their sleeves it hit me that the youngest of the pack was born the year I graduated high school. Insignificant really but it put my age into perspective.
Doug R
Sometime after 2000 when I stepped into a high school, I realized ALL the students there were born since it graduated. Man did I feel old.
Jay C
@Cacti:
The kids that were born the year I graduated high school are just five years away from qualifying for the AARP.
Even more Yikes!
SFAW
@MomSense:
Didn’t go there much. The place I gravitated to was about a quarter-mile from Out of Town, possibly on Church St, big plate glass window with the frame around it painted bright blue. The main floor was OK, nothing special, but the basement was outstanding.
Shit.
NotMax
@PurpleGirl
Besides the slide rule, we were also taught the use of the abacus in elementary school. Each student was provided one (we had to purchase the slide rules, though).
Cervantes
@Kyle:
Among countries where alcohol is forbidden to Muslims, per capita consumption is highest in Iran.
Schlemazel
@NotMax:
They almost got beer exempted from Prohibition. But, like you noted, there was still some anti German hangover
J R in WV
Just last summer my youngest cousin was out to the farm for visiting and target practice with old family guns from Grandmother’s farm. One was a 1903 Colt .32 automatic that was in the bathroom closet my entire life.
The first time he brought it out we had no ammunition. Last summer we each had a box. We loaded it, and I held it out with one hand. It jammed after the first round, but the rest of fired rounds were flawless.
We were done shooting, one clip each, and were looking at the 112 y o pistol, and I noticed that the checker pattern of the grip was worn quite a bit. And Cousin said that was from his dad my Uncle carrying it in his hip pocket running ‘shine into town before WW II.
And Grandma was a Baptist! She had a little store, and sold 50 lb sacks of corn, whole or ground, yeast. sugar, etc. But I think she (and Uncle) thought anything for a profit that didn’t involve work underground.
Then the war happened. Everything changed after that. There were jobs. But Uncle ran shine into town… amazing. He was a straight arrow guy. The pistol was to keep rowdies from stealing the load, not for the police. He was never “caught” as they were providing the best whiskey in town.
Doug R
@redshirt: What a lovely day!
Pogonip
@Amir Khalid: Love is a nose but you better not pick it.
JPL
For those glutton for punishment the Trump is in the house in Dallas, Texas.. link
I’m going to compare his speech to the one Sander’s gave at liberty univ. today.
Cervantes
@MomSense:
Schoenhof’s is still there, yes.
The Harvard Book Store is independent (and unique).
The Curious George Store for kids is independent (and unique).
The Coop is still there and has a good selection but it’s more generic, I agree.
Wordsworth is gone but, given the owner’s politics, I don’t miss it.
There are several good (and unique) shops that sell used books.
PS: The HUP store at 1350 Mass. Ave. is gone now. I miss it.
Origuy
@Schlemazel: If you go fishing with a [Mormon/Baptist/Muslim], how do you keep him from drinking all your beer? Bring along another one.
Roger Moore
@Doug R:
Sure, but the Simpsons are still in their first run, while the Flintstones only lasted 6 seasons.
Mike G
@Jay C:
This year’s college freshmen are (probably) too young to personally remember 9/11 (age 4-5).
NotMax
@Schlemazel
And it took until Carter was president to legalize homebrewed beer again.
Long time to nurse a grudge, indeed.
OldDave
@Quaker in a Basement:
Yeah, so do I. I just don’t fit into them anymore.
raven
@J R in WV: Did you clean that weapon before you inserted the magazine?
Schlemazel
@J R in WV:
My dad’s dad had 7 sons and they sold vegetables and coal using trucks granddad bought. When Prohibition ended Theo Hamms offered him distribution for the Twin Cities. Grandma was a Prairie Methodist, no cards, no movies and sure as hell NO BEER!! So he said, no.
The family could have been millionaires but wouldn’t break their beliefs
Thoughtful Today
Read about ?civet? coffee the other day …
… seemed wrong on so_many_levels____
Schlemazel
@NotMax:
All the breweries that survived Prohibition made it in part by selling malt. It was only recently that I finally found out what the malt was used for. You could mix it with “near beer” and let it ferment to make real beer.
Pot laws are strictly adhered to compared to Prohibition
NotMax
@Thoughtful Today
To paraphrase The Beatles, poop-poop-a-do.
Roger Moore
@NotMax:
Yeah, it took the alcoholic beverage industry a long time to recover. It wasn’t until the 70s and 80s that anyone took American wine seriously, and some people still act surprised that American craft beer is any good.
Ruckus
Betty.
Just went to the VA today. Both of the docs I saw were born maybe 5-6 years earlier. You get used to the idea that you are getting old enough to remember that in 1994 you’d been in relationships that had lasted longer than 21 yrs. Eventually you get used to it. It may have helped that I worked for a decade in a sport mostly participated in by people not old enough to buy alcohol.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
some people still act surprised that American craft beer is any good.
There also may be the problem that the best selling beer like substances in the US still taste like urine. And weak urine at that.
Roger Moore
@Ruckus:
Sure, but that’s true of the best selling beer-like substances in plenty of other countries. Yeah, Budweiser sucks ass, but so do Fosters, Labat’s, Corona, Becks, Heineken, etc. It’s all sex in a canoe.
Ruckus
@Chris:
All Prohibitionist cultures do is encourage people to lie about their habits, I think. (Or drive them completely underground).
A very, very valid statement.
Example, abortions. You can make them illegal, shut down easy access and you will still have abortions. How many of us have ever participated in the use of illegal drugs? No need for a show of hands but I’d bet it’s higher than many imagine. Especially drugs that have not been illegal for much more than a hundred yrs.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
While I was never a big beer drinker, I’ve tasted some of those brews in their home countries and yes while they weren’t what I’d call acceptable, they were still far better than the popular piss water made in this country.
Tommy
How do you get from IL to Northern CA on a plane fast?
My last not, direct family member lost her husband today.
She lives on a mountain in the middle of no place in CA. Hours from an airport I hear.
Dad said he doesn’t like planes (first I’d heard of this — spent 30+ years working for the Air Force). Not seen her for 30+ years yet SHE VISITED HIM AND SPENT A WEEK IN THEIR HOUSE TWO WEEKS AGO.
I mean you got on the plane right …. it can’t in 2015 be hard to get there from Illinois?
A Ghost To Most
@Schlemazel:
Yeah, I can only buy 1 ounce a day, and can only plant 6 plants per adult resident. Draconian!
Omnes Omnibus
@A Ghost To Most: Not everyone lives in whatever state you are in and possession of a few ounces could get you federal time.
evap
I’ve been teaching college students since 1981 or so (first as a grad student, then as a professor since 1985). I used to think, “these students were born after the Beatles broke up” and then at some point, “some of them have parents younger than I am”. I’m getting to the point where I think, “some of these students have grandparents younger than I am”. Not quite there yet, but it’s only a matter of time…
Tommy
@evap: We age ….
rikyrah
There are so many things to make me feel old…thanks for another one n
A Ghost To Most
@Omnes Omnibus:
Fully aware. The feds have shown interest only where it has been warranted,from what I have seen.
I’m just wondering how long the rest of the country is going to put up with the costs of prohibition. Things are working pretty well here so far. Schools are getting funding that they were not getting before.
Mustang Bobby
My other car has been old enough to drink since 2009, and my mustache is old enough to be a 21-year-old’s parent.
A Ghost To Most
@evap:
This year makes 40 for me in IT. I will be glad when I am done with it
Roger Moore
@Tommy:
Unfortunately, there is generally no fast way to get to the middle of nowhere. You may be able to find a small airport that’s a little bit closer to wherever she lives than one of the major ones, but unless you can fly your own plane- or hire somebody who will fly you there- you probably can’t get really close by air. Your best bet will be to find the closest airport with regular service and drive the rest of the way. It’s going to take a while, assuming there aren’t any fires blocking your route.
Ajabu
I had a group of very young (7 year olds) piano students put it in perspective last year.
Child #1 – (speaking to me) “My friend was going to take lessons but she’s afraid of you because you’re old.”
Child #2 – (leaping to my defense) “I like old people. They always smile at me.”
Child #3 – “My mom is old. She’s 34!”
As the trombone player said when he missed the bus, “I rest my case.”
Cervantes
@Tommy:
Helicopter?
TooManyJens
I work at a university, and it occurred to me recently, as I was having my staff ID swiped to get into the campus fitness center, that the ID card was probably older than the guy swiping it.
redshirt
@Doug R:
Witness!
Ruckus
@evap:
Getting old may suck, and some days it surly does but as the alternative isn’t quite as good as suck, I’ll take my turn as the guy that’s older than dirt proudly. If only because a few decades ago I never thought I’d make it this far. Hell, 2 or 3 more decades, that should be easy. BTW it won’t be, going downhill on an ever steepening hill at breakneck speed with no brakes or steering is never easy.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@evap: A friend knows someone who was a grandfather at 32, so … ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
divF
@NotMax:
Some states (Colorado comes to mind) are required to check ID for all alcohol purchases, regardless of age. My reaction always is to say, “bless you for asking.”
Quaker in a Basement
@Ruckus: And the portions are so small!
redshirt
@Ajabu:
lol
But don’t you remember mocking adults as a young person – so long ago?
Old people, back then, were also stupid and dumb and clueless. Like all old people, in all times, in the opinions of teenagers and those younger rebellious and ready to rebel.
The cycle is endless.
JCT
@JohnnyHitNRunPraline: Hah – and mine turned 25 today.
The younger one will be 21 in 3 weeks – I think he is counting the minutes.
MCA1
I’m about 8 weeks from looking at one of those signs and seeing a date on which I was already legal to drink. Yikes. Half my life over 21?
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Cacti:
The kids that were born the year I graduated high school were old enough to drink 11 years ago.
In 1981, Texas raised the drinking age from 18 to 19, and then to 21 in 1986. I turned 19 in ’84, so I just managed to stay legal after the ’86 change. My wife, who’s a year and a half younger than me, went from being legal, to being underage for about a year, to being legal again.
My college had a reputation as a party school (well-deserved in the ’70s, but not so much by the time I got there), with something like a dozen bars down the main road from campus. Most of them shut down within a year of the ’86 change. The ones that survived had always catered to locals instead of students.
The thing that freaks me right the fuck out every time I visit my wife’s family in California is walking into a drug store and seeing hard liquor on the shelf. Can’t do that in TX. Beer and wine, sure, but hard liquor can’t be sold anywhere but a liquor store. And of course you can’t buy liquor on Sundays (beer and wine, yes, but not before noon). And most TX counties are still at least partially dry, so sometimes you have to drive a bit to get your booze on.
Took a bartending class way back in the mid-Cretaceous. Our instructor was originally from Boston. He had some … interesting ideas on uniforms for Texas Alcoholic Beverages Comission employees. It started with branding a swastika on the left cheek.