When I said Trump will self-destruct and soon, this is exactly what I meant.
UNIDENTIFIED JACKASS: (Unintelligible) We have a problem in this country. It’s called Muslims. We know our current president is one.
TRUMP: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED JACKASS: You know he’s not even an American.
TRUMP: (Big smile) We need this question. This is (unintelligible).
UNIDENTIFIED JACKASS: But anyway, we have training camps, growing, where they want to kill us. That’s my question: when can we get rid of them?
TRUMP: We’re going to be looking at a lot of different things. I mean you know a lot of people are saying that and a lot of people are saying that bad things are happening out there and we’re going to be looking at that and plenty of other things.
Donald Trump may not be crazy per se but he long ago disappeared too far up his own ass to second-guess anything that the dumb little voice in his head wants him to say. That rotten little eight year old, the one dad tried and failed to straighten out with military school, is easily the guy’s major vulnerability. When he gets caught up in the moment, with no one around to correct him but the cameras, Trump will nod along with any damn thing a supporter says. And that was a masterful work of leading a guy down an increasingly problematic garden path. Uh huh, camps…uh huh, sharia, birtherism…yeah, final solution…wait*. It makes me wonder where our front pagers were last night.
Will this be the one that does him in? People have lost money taking that bet before. Still the chances ain’t zero and we still have two weeks before October. By Halloween the only way you still hear about Trump is if he takes his National Front fan base and runs third party.
(*) Does Trump really think rounding up American muslims is a good idea? Probably not. I think he’s just reliving his days on the WWE stage where he’d say any damn thing to get a stadium full of people to shout louder. If I had to guess, I would say somewhere around thirty percent of the GOP base are the kind of people who would go to a fake wrestling show to cheer the heroes and shout at heels. You could see his journey from wrestling to politics as a lateral move where he took his natural constituency with him. He could try to explain it that way – he only strings words together because he likes the sound of morons shouting – but I doubt that will help.
rk
I believe this will only increase Trump’s popularity. John McCain was thought to have lost the election by not allowing Sarah Palin to unleash her full-on bigotry. You really think not responding to anti-muslim or Obama hatred will bring him down? No way, no how, never!
Botsplainer
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein…
Baud
Trump could have expressed concern about Muslim-made clocks.
raven
Do you know lefties once called Buch a murderer?
Morzer
Why do you think this will do Trump any harm whatsoever with his fans in the party of paranoid, ignorant, racist bigots? They are the ones who are going to vote in the primary and this sort of deranged garbage is absolutely standard issue among them. It’s not like any of the other big GOP names are going to call Trump out for this – they know just how many votes they’d get from the ‘baggers if they did. Hell, the GOP vomitbucket is full to the brim with crazy claims about sharia law being implemented by force on the beaches of Nebraska.
If the media bothers to cover this, it won’t matter except to the people who were never going to vote for Trump – and so nothing will change. I wouldn’t even bet against Trump getting some new fans for his brave willingness to ask tough questions!
Patricia Kayden
No, I want Trump to be the GOP Presidential candidate. That will make it a lot easier for a Democratic Presidential candidate to win next November. Republicans deserve a vocally racist candidate to reflect the values of their party.
weaselone
I think the answer to whether this will sink Trump has already been made fairly clear. His base will lap it up. It might even pull away some of the islamaphobe birther conspiracy nuts from other candidates. The remainder of Republicans will largely not care, or rationalize it away. The “news” media has already demonstrated that they won’t go after Trump to any meaningful extent for this exchange.
Gin & Tonic
Who wants to bet this was ratfucking?
Patrick
Why would this make Trump self-destruct? His base loves this.
Carnacki
You’re not being fair to pro wrestling fans, many of whom are hard core Democrats, including former world champs Mick Foley and Daniel Bryan. Even Stonecold Steve Austin was very outspoken in support of marriage equality for gays.
lonesomerobot
I really think you’re being far too optimistic about Trump. Look at it this way: If the crazification factor is 27% of the entire population, what percentage of the Republican electorate does that represent? Because in a field this crowded, Trump doesn’t even need 35% to win.
The only real question is whether he really means to win, or just to leave the rest of the field, and the GOP, in a shambles.
David Koch
If calling McCain a coward for being caught and wingnut pin-up Meygan Kelly a bimbo didn’t hurt how does insane Obama bashing hurt him with the loony-toon wingers who already support him?
I mean Carson has said worse, comparing Obama to Hitler, and he’s in 2nd place.
dmsilev
@Gin & Tonic: Always hard to tell. The problem is, it’s really difficult to distinguish between an actually-crazy member of the GOP base and a ringer out to ask an over the top question.
Marc
I keep on hearing that THIS will knock Trump out, and it keeps not happening. Given the evidence, it’s pretty clear to me that his campaign is proceeding with a different set of rules, and Palin is an important clue – she said a string of really nasty things without being driven out of the race, after all.
Trump will lose by losing primaries and getting perceived as unpopular, not because he says something outrageous. His entire campaign is based on saying outrageous things.
Stacy
Morning joe spent a good amount of time defending Trump on this so I don’t think it’s going to bring him down. One of reps channeled the Huckster and said he was mearly defending good Christians from persecution.
Just One More Canuck
the transcriber could gave saved themselves some time and just written “unintelligible” for the whole thing
Elizabelle
@Gin & Tonic: Yes. I think this was a setup. The guy’s voice just carries too well, and has a kind of professional smirk to it. I think it’s a parody or ratfucking.
Jon Rockoford
The Trump campaign has responded, and it was apparently just a misunderstanding. He just misheard — just like with an earlier incident when he heard “Kurds” instead of “Quds.” In this case he heard “Muslin,” not “Muslim.”
It may not be politically correct, and all you liberals will jump on me, but I have to agree with him: As a dapper American I have no use for muslin. Cotton, linen, wool and silk ought to be the textiles of the nation. Muslin should not be used any more and the illicit camps that produce it should be closed down since nobody looks good in muslin — and it can be itchy too.
Litlebritdifrnt
This morning on MJ they were rationalizing it by saying that he was answering the second part of the question, ie, “how do we get rid of the Muslim training camps” what they failed to address (of course) is that when the guy said “you know our current president is one” Trump said “right”. He agreed with the guy and yet the delicate flowers on MJ seemed to miss that point.
Elizabelle
What bothered me the most about the whole thing (I was willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt for not wanting to correct a “fan” in public, or to play along): that Trump’s campaign put out a message about Christians and their liberty being under attack.
WTF? No. Bad response, and pander pander pander.
Just One More Canuck
@Elizabelle: Does anyone know where DougJ was when this happened?
David Koch
@Elizabelle: It reminds of the guy who called Palin pretending to be Sarkozy
J.D. Rhoades
@raven: Remember your wingnut logic. It’s okay for an actual candidate to call Obama Hitler because some “lefty” once said it about Bush. But the fact that some “lefty” once said it about Bush is still The Worst Thing Ever and must be brought up at every opportunity.
It’s not the candidate’s JOB to be as confused as his or her dumbest supporters.
Elizabelle
@Litlebritdifrnt: I thought one could argue Trump’s “right” was akin to, “OK, I hear the question” or “I get the gist of the question.” Not necessarily agreement. And I say that as not a Trump fan.
Of course, his campaign is now saying he did not hear all of the question.
But: look there! Christian liberty under attack!
Morzer
The other reason why this won’t harm Trump is that Trump is typically vague in his response. He never actually commits to doing anything in particular. Basically he offers up the rightwing crazy-train equivalent of “I feel your pain” and smirks at the audience. If anyone calls him out, he’ll just say that these are serious questions and FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!
Botsplainer
@rk:
McCain actually displayed a smidgen of wisdom and consideration when he refused to put that moron on the stage election night. I suspect that she was planning to let her freak flag fly and make a speech calling for open insurrection.
lonesomerobot
@Patricia Kayden: Be careful for what you wish. My concern is that Trump will have the ability to influence a lot of people who don’t normally vote, and that could result in an electorate that is hard to predict.
It may be that even one of the GOP candidates (Paul or Cruz would be my first guess) decides to run 3rd party if Trump is the nominee. Depending on who the Dem is, I would think the GOP might actually hope for this, or even encourage it through back channels. Unless the Dem is Bernie Sanders, then they’ll just implode. But I can see Cruz running anyway, he is extremely callow and has an enormous ego and it’s hard to see him not taking another opportunity to grandstand.
Elizabelle
@David Koch: Yeah.
Or the guys who called Elton John pretending to be Putin.
Used to work with some radio jocks, and that is a radio jockish voice and delivery, even if it’s amateur.
JPL
@Jon Rockoford: Muslin is cotton. I find wool itchy.
Morzer
@Botsplainer:
I suspect that McCain was more moved by vanity than anything else. He didn’t want to have his concession speech remembered for not being as powerful as Palin’s.
RK
It’s still hard to believe Trump is truly making a serious run. That he hasn’t yet boned up on foreign policy would suggest he isn’t.
beltane
There was some evidence Trump’s campaign was flagging a bit. This incident will provide a boost with the base.
The people who vote in the Republican primary are racist scum who hate the President and are convinced he is a Muslim. Why would this hurt Trump with these people?
Morzer
@RK:
I am sure he can see numerous White Russians from his house.
lurker dean
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/18/opinion/crazy-talk-at-the-republican-debate.html?
“It felt at times as if the speakers were no longer living in a fact-based world where actions have consequences, programs take money and money has to come from somewhere. Where basic laws — like physics and the Constitution — constrain wishes.”
David Koch
Not only didn’t that hurt him, it vaulted him into a double digit lead
Marmot
That’s an excellent description. They may not be the actual wrestling fans, but their approach to politics is nearly identical to that.
Good post.
brendancalling
@rk: this won’t hurt him with the base, at all.
beltane
@Morzer: Would any of the other dimwits running have provided a better retort to the question? Maybe C-listers Graham or Pataki, but that’s about it.
David Koch
@Elizabelle: or the guy who called Walker pretending to be me.
Morzer
@beltane:
No, none. And none of them will even think of calling Trump out over this. There are no GOP primary votes in being sane, fact-based or decent.
Morzer
@David Koch:
Walker must be foaming at the mouth about Trump. “That no-good son of a b*tch is stealing my morons!”
David Koch
“Megyan Kelly had blood pouring out of her…. whatever”
Jon Rockoford
@JPL:
Just another politically correct liberal liberal response, trying to confuse the issue with facts. Sheesh!
RK
If you watch the tape you’ll see Trump smile as if to say “Look at the crazy circus I’ve created.” Trump is a traveling show not a campaign.
Weaselone
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Which just underscores how much of a joke the Morning Joke crew is. The first part of the question makes it clear that the audience member is referring to the Muslim training camps down the street from John Cole’s house, not the ISIS training camps in Syria and Iraq.
Morzer
@RK:
Trump’s slogan should be “For the lulz!!!”
waspuppet
Remind me again how I was shallow and unsophisticated for voting for Obama twice when “everybody” “knew” he spoke in nothing but vague platitudes.
beltane
@Morzer: If Trump is PT Barnum, Walker is one of the many guys running a booth at the Podunk County Fair. There is no comparison.
Marmot
@Elizabelle:
What’ll happen is that he’ll get a temporary boost from defenders rallying around the idea that it’s a nasty ploy by the Liberal Media. But the less racist among them will start to drop off in a couple weeks.
I’m calling it. Trump is on the downslide in two weeks.
Morzer
@beltane:
“Walker is one of the many guys running a booth at the Podunk County Fair”
Right next to The Amazing Oculist Rand.
lonesomerobot
@JPL: Muslin also had a bit of a star turn during during the 2008 PUMA days. #NeverForget #MuslinCaliphate #GeraldineFerraro
Belafon
I don’t know if his statements will cause some Republicans to vote Democrat, but it may cause them to stay home. An old friend of mine, who has been drifting right because of the economic talk he hears at his company, went off on the city of Irving because of the way that kid was treated. Even he saw that that the kid was targeted because of his skin color. I suspect it’s because the guy has a lot of Indian and Asian coworkers (he works at a tech support center for developers for Microsoft).
Barry
@Patrick: “Why would this make Trump self-destruct? His base loves this.”
Seconded.
Trump is the lead crazy in Crazy Town.
Morzer
@Marmot:
Tell me who gets his voters and how and I’ll believe it. None of the other clowns have put on a show like the Donald – and none of them have looked remotely likely to do so.
Patricia Kayden
@Jon Rockoford: Two different individuals brought up the lie that President Obama is a Muslim during this rally. So he misheard twice? Plus, he’s well known for pushing birtherism tropes,which is part and parcel of the “Obama is not one of us” argument that Republicans have been pushing since 2008.
Phylllis
Watching the CBS evening news last night (I know, I know, but it’s the hubby’s thing) and got the distinct impression from the ‘analysis’ provided by Major Garrett and John Dickerson that the long knives are being unsheathed re: Trump. Since they’re part of the VSP, I don’t think it will be much longer before Trump is under the media bus & being backed over a time or two.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@David Koch: and it should have ended it for Trump because there is no way for a Republican to get elected president without the Latino vote.
Paul in KY
Still talking to crazy primary voters, at this point. That response will play well with them.
Obviously, if he gets to general election, there will be a plethora of targets for great anti-Trump ads.
Now, though, he’s just stroking their id.
JPL
There was a person behind Trump who shook his head no, when the person mentioned that Obama was a Muslim. What is getting little notice is that Trump asked the audience who believed in global warming and one person raised their hand. That’s scary.
Thoughtful Today
erm…
We shouldn’t underestimate any the Republicans,
Trump could drop a billion of his own money on his campaign and still have, what, several billion left? He’s narcissistic enough to do it.
His supporters are apparently zealously authoritarian and don’t flinch over anything he’s said or done.
Anyone remember the particulars of what rattled Republican pollster Frank Luntz? If I recall correctly, his estimation of Trump’s supporters is that nothing swayed them and anything that attacked him just made him stronger (in their eyes).
He may become the Republican nominee and be harder to beat than any of us realize.
And Dear God I hope I’m wrong.
beltane
@Belafon: This is what will eventually cause the demise of this incarnation of the Republican Party. Pure, undiluted racism and religious intolerance may be necessary to win the Republican nomination (and perhaps the majority of the white vote), but it will make it increasingly impossible to win general elections. In order to win over the racist base, the party makes itself unacceptable to all minorities and to a significant percentage of white voters.
Morzer
@Phylllis:
I doubt that the GOP’s base cares whether the “librul media” gets out the long knives or a passel of chainsaws. If anything, it will just make them like Trump more.
rikyrah
Oh, So NOW…they care about the ‘ Obama is a Muslim’ lie?
After they pushed it, and hemmed and hawed and pretended not to notice as it spread through the GOP.
Because they need to get rid of Trump.
Get.da.phuq.outta.here.
Paul in KY
@raven: But Klaus Von Buch (UnterKommander at Bergen-Belsen) was a murderer! Tried & convicted…
GWB also was. Too.
OzarkHillbilly
Relax….. Trump isn’t doing anything that hasn’t been done a thousand times before. This is all a part of that mile wide and inch deep nativist streak that has been part and parcel of the American experience since…. 1608. Trump is not going to reinvent the American electorate by inspiring millions of people who could never be bothered to vote before to suddenly get out of bed at 6 AM on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in Nov. so they can be the first to vote for PRESIDENT Trump. He is a carnival barker and the people who show up for his events just want to see the bearded lady or the man with 2 heads.
Trump will not be the Republican nominee for president in 2016, mostly because he is not a Republican.
When it comes to the American electorate I am about as cynical as they get. I believe a Republican could in fact be elected for President in 2016. Americans do have a short memory and enuf of them might forget how disastrous W’s reign was and vote for another GOPer spouting the same nonsense, BUT…. there is no way on Dog’s green earth a Trump is going to follow a black man with a funny sounding name into the White House. A black man who took everything the GOP had to throw at him, every insult, every lie, every dollar the Kochs and Adelsons of this country could throw at him for 4 years and not only get himself reelected, but resoundingly so.
So again, relax and enjoy the show.
Marmot
@Morzer: Right now, I’d say Fiorina and Cruz get his voters. Cruz for the more crazy, Fiorina for the ones who want to convince themselves that they liked Trump for something other than naked bigotry. And they’re susceptible to hype, which favors her at the moment.
That’s my current potshot, at least.
Thoughtful Today
doi, need coffee. hate clicking ‘submit’ and reading sloppy writing
corrected:
We shouldn’t underestimate any of the Republicans.
Patricia Kayden
@Phylllis: Republicans will just say that the “Lamestream Media” is going after their hero because he speaks the truth. I don’t think the media bus running over Trump will make a difference to his supporters. I don’t know what he’ll do to turn them off since he’s been as bigoted and offensive as possible and nothing has shook them loose.
debbie
Have this many Americans been this stupid all along?
Morzer
@Marmot:
But neither Cruz nor Fiorina possesses the sheer zest with which the Donald goes about his work. Fiorina has been clinging on to a compaqt 2.5% of the voters, Cruz is not much better off and has done nothing but toady to Trump.
I think Trump keeps his voters, because there isn’t a plausible alternative, unless we count Ben Carson and I would bet on Carson’s support collapsing before Trump’s.
Paul in KY
@Botsplainer: I think she was going to imply that they would have won except for old loser McCain.
debbie
@rikyrah:
Hope Obama responds directly to this at his next news conference. Since he has no f*cks left to give, it would be nice to hear him decimate those who persist in this lie.
JoeShabadoo
Its time for everyone to stop thinking Trump will implode. He has been top dog too long to drop to nothing.
The GOP money guys have already passed through denial as well as anger and are currently in the bargaining phase, thinking they can at least prop up Kasich. Considering everyone here has less personal involvement with Republican primaries we should be at acceptance already.
Elizabelle
@Marmot: My sense is that Trump has peaked too.
However, the people who support him want to blow everything up. They are not serious types.
So I don’t know where this goes. They might be alienated enough to think the whole system is a joke, so why not vote for the joker?
Which is not an adult thought or being a responsible citizen, but there you have it.
Also, our mainstream media really and truly sucks. You could forgive people for being badly informed.
rikyrah
Teresa @TeresaKopec
Press who gave Trump chance after chance to spew birther crap in 2011 amazed people believed it. That’s what happens when u legitimize it.
lonesomerobot
@Thoughtful Today: Yes as I’ve said before I think he will expand the electorate to a lot of really dumb people who have never voted. It will be very difficult to get accurate polling.
The one thing that needs to be reiterated if Trump wins the nomination is take him seriously and not trick ourselves into thinking that normal politics is what’s happening this time. Even if he doesn’t win the nom, this is already a very different election.
rikyrah
Negar نگارVerified account
@NegarMortazavi
White House’s new chief floral designer is Roshan Hedieh Ghaffarian, born in Iran and raised in California.
Morzer
@JoeShabadoo:
People forget how long Gingrich and Santorum stuck around – and they were facing a much more established mainstream candidate in Romney. Trump doesn’t have to worry about money or a serious challenger like that. He might just be able to ride his 30% of the vote all the way, especially since Jeb! is even less convincing than Romney.
FlipYrWhig
@Marmot: Nah, the Trumpettes aren’t going to leave his side. They’re a bunch of hateful idiots and they’ve found their hateful idiot king. These are all the same people who loved Sarah Palin on her arrival on the scene, and still do now.
Paul in KY
@waspuppet: Boy, were you one shallow & unsophisticated SOB.
Thank you for being that!
lonesomerobot
@Patricia Kayden: And he already fought and won the battle with the only network that matters in conservabubble: Fox
Morzer
@rikyrah:
The GOP won’t be able to decide which of the two is worse.
FlipYrWhig
@debbie:
Uh, have you met America?
Patrick
@rikyrah:
The way Trump went after Obama with his birther lies in 2011 was disgusting. Yet NBC still allowed him to do his stupid show on their channel. NBC should be ashamed of itself.
sdhays
@debbie: Yes.
boatboy_srq
What bothers me isn’t Trump’s pandering. He’s GOTea: it’s what they do.
What really bugs me is the continued insistence by the Reichwing base that a) BHO is Muslim (WTF?) and b) that Islam in itself is somehow bad (WTF²?). This after seven years of recovery/growth/stability at home. It happened in Rochestah. Noo Hampshah. Not exactly wingnut central. Yet it’s somehow the predictable level to which the Reichwing has fallen.
Redshift
@Phylllis: If they knew how to successfully throw Trump under the bus, it would have been done a while ago. They may try, but that doesn’t mean it’ll happen.
Paul in KY
@Phylllis: That won’t do it. They’ll have to put the horse head in the bed or something like that to get him out.
Morzer
@Paul in KY:
I suspect Trump would just plait a new wig from the poor beast’s mane.
Mandalay
@Morzer:
Sadly, it seems that you are correct. No GOP candidate or politician has raised a word of criticism about this AFAIK.
It looks like Trump has got away with it yet again. But you can’t keep using I-didn’t-hear-the-question as an excuse forever, and this will surely happen again.
WJS
Nope. This will only make him stronger with the base of the Republican Party. This is a continuation of the very racist policy of denying Obama any legitimacy as President. And it will continue well after Obama leaves office. When the positive impacts of his policy decisions come up in future elections, the Republican voter will simply say, “oh, well he wasn’t really the president anyway because the GOP congress kept him from destroying America.”
They still hate Jimmy Carter. What makes you think that will ever go away and be replaced by a rational thought?
beltane
@debbie: Yes, they’ve always been this stupid. The stupidity, like police brutality and other societal ills, was just kept under wraps by the networks and print media. Nations do not like airing out their dirty laundry. With the advent of Fox News and cable news in general, the stupid people have become emboldened, they have become the stars of the show.
Sherparick
@Litlebritdifrnt: No, Joe and the rest, like the folks on Fox and CNN, will just pretend that inconvenient moment did not happen. Ditto the NY Times political reporters and editors and the rest of the rest of the national media. Repeating Republican memes and not challenging them is the way to fame and fortune in the current media infotainment industrial complex. See what happen to all the leading reporters and editors from 2000 who did so like John Harris, Van Der Heih, Jack Tapper, and Maureen Dowd – bigger and better jobs, incomes, and millionaire status. Incentives count, and in the Village, repeating Republican lies until they become the “truth” is the way to fame and fortune.
Morzer
@Mandalay:
When your base consists of senile, deranged white coots, I suspect that you can plead strategic deafness ad infinitum and they’ll all nod approvingly at your cunning plan to avoid gotcha questions.
beltane
I first heard the “Obama is a Muslim” thing from Clinton supporters back in 2007. It isn’t until 2015, when an idiot Trump supporter mentions it that this becomes an outrage to the national media?
Elizabelle
@Patrick: NBC’s doubling down.
FWIW, I am not a fan of MSNBC. They bore me. I’d prefer a version of BBC, which seems more balanced. MSNBC is the mirror image of Fox, although more accurate and reality-based.
That said, NBC’s expanding Morning Joe — which is sheerly GOP talking points, with Mika Alan Colmes and lively music clips to hide that — and bringing Chuck Todd in for a daily show, where he’s the arbiter of what’s accurate in the 2016 presidential race and all things political?
Awful.
Again, I’d prefer something BBC like, for people who genuinely like a variety of news, accurately and evenly reported, by newsreaders in business attire. Who don’t sensationalize everything. No ALL CAPS reporting there.
Not just Trump, Trump, Trump, Republican Debate, GOP Debate, GOP Debate, missing airliner, missing airliner, missing airliner. Did you know Donald Trump is running? Let us tell you what he said. Isn’t that awful?
Know I’m in the minority here, but I cannot watch Maddow or Hayes. Too damn repetitive and sensational and Rachel takes too much time to get to the point. I’ve never been able to watch one of her shows to the second commercial. She may be very, very smart (I know she is) and cool, but I can’t stand the smirking. It’s offputting. I don’t want to be that tribal.
And I truly would have liked to see the Irving police chief on Hayes last night, but it was all “look what Donald Trump just did!”
I can’t stand it. Cutting the cable chord in the next month and not looking back.
It’s a sin to use cable channels like that.
JoeShabadoo
@Morzer: I imagine the establishment pushing Romney last election makes them even less likely to go for the establishment’s pick this time. The base hated Romney and cycled through literally every candidate before they finally settled. The base doesn’t want to settle this time.
lonesomerobot
I know I’m probably just a little silly for saying this, but if one were to juxtapose this episode with something like, say, the Dean Scream, one might begin to see an awful disparity in… something, something, mumble… (trails off, wanders away shaking head)
Sloegin
Media is totally giving this one a pass. Call it orders from above, call it IOKIYAR, call it ratings. Just don’t call it fascism.
Mandalay
@Patrick:
As should Anderson Cooper who had a mini-meltdown about Trump’s remarks last night:
Great stuff right? Well, not really. Because for years Cooper has been playing the affable dumbfuck impartial journalist, allowing wackos and extremists free air time to say batshit insane crap on his show while he only ever gave the mildest pushback. He’s been feeding that beast to get ratings to ensure his fat paycheck. So he can spare us his faux pearl clutching now.
Anderson Cooper isn’t offended by the problem. Anderson Cooper (and others like him) are the problem.
Cermet
@Belafon: I have a guy who is far right and an An Rand follower who is pissed as hell that kid was arrested for a clock. Sometimes, a little light gets through …
MomSense
@Gin & Tonic:
Nope, I really don’t think it was ratfucking. I heard the exchange from above on NPR and he sounds just like people I have encountered who hold the same fucked up beliefs. It wasn’t just the losing the 2014 elections that had me depressed, it was the fucking phone calls with these types.
Elizabelle
Does anyone remember the beginnings of Headline News? You could get a good roundup, on every half hour, of news presented much like Cronkite and Brinkley and others used to do it. It was so helpful to check in, and there is your news broadcast, well chosen and not sensational.
Now that channel is all Forensic Files and infotainment and Nancy Grace.
We could use an easier to access roundup of actual news.
I miss Headline News. I can’t stand the tabloidization of all media.
beltane
@JoeShabadoo: And in 2012 they didn’t have an acceptable anti-Romney to nominate, no one for a good authoritarian to mindlessly follow. Donald Trump combines several traits beloved by the right-wing. He is the rich, successful businessman, who glibly spouts off mean-sounding bullshit with the ease of Newt Gingrich, while parading around with the vulgar, bling-ee charm of Sarah Palin. He is rich, mean, and glamorous. He is pure id. He is who they want to be. He is who they would be if those liberals and minorities didn’t get in their way.
Cermet
@beltane: LOL – sure you did. Now, get back into your nice padded cell …
Morzer
@MomSense:
The guy sounds to me like a standard-issue “brave conservative truth-teller” who anticipates TV martyrdom and longs for the wedges of cash that it will provide.
boatboy_srq
@Elizabelle: News (like music videos) doesn’t sell, and advertisers value eyeballs more than content. Telejournalism isn’t especially cheap; so the owners have the choice of running a valuable service at a loss and making the difference up elsewhere, or monetizing it (the Ahmurrcan Way, after all) and producing what sells ad spots. Doncha just love the Free Market?
SRW1
El Trumpo is/was an uber birther. Shouldn’t be any surprise that he attracts these kinds of wingnuts.
Will it hurt him? Not in the polls, but it will cement that he’ll always be a parvenu to the old establishment. Which, I think, is one of the things that does hurt him inside, but was his starting position before the campaign anyway. So, not a net loss either.
Chris
There was exactly one Republican who got the answer to “Is Obama A Muslim?” right, and that was Colin Powell.
The answer to “Is Obama a Muslim?” is not “no,” it’s “who gives a shit?” There were Republicans who got it technically right (McCain was one), but few to none who had the stones to address the larger point (of course, I’m sure it helps that Powell was retired and not running for anything). Best comment I read on it at the time: “Is Obama an Arab, or is he a decent family man? Opinion is divided. The idea that one could be both is still a little radical for many Americans.”
@Morzer:
Yep. This is the real problem Trump poses for the rest of the Republican candidate field; once he starts a thing like this, they all have to respond to it one way or another. In another time, they might just have gotten through an election season without it being mentioned, but when Trump puts identity issues (like immigration, most especially) front and center, all of them have to take a position, and they have the unenviable task of picking between alienating the primary voters and alienating national voters.
Morzer
I’ll tell you one thing that has really surprised me about Trump – he’s suggested various tax increases on the rich at various points and yet, so far, we haven’t heard a peep out of Grover Norquist.
Princess
NPR gave this a total pass this morning. Mara Liasson mentioned the question and questioner; gave no time to Trump’s evil answer. Then they cut to a cutesy waste of time piece on big words used in the GOP debate.
beltane
@Cermet: Yep, forwarded emails from “concerned” Israel-loving Clinton supporters. You must have spent 2007-08 in a padded cell if you managed to avoid being subjected to this kind of thing. Just because I like Hillary doesn’t mean I can deny her supporters, if not her actual campaign, pioneered the use of some very nasty anti-Obama memes.
boatboy_srq
@Cermet: Initially it wasn’t entirely indefensible. We had BHO the Christian and Keith Ellison the Muslim (if that ain’t America I don’t know what is), so there’s some reasons for early confusion. Naturally, though, since the initial backgrounder distribution the Reichwing has been throwing everything at the POTUS wall and looking for something to stick.
Dems want government; Teahadis want Vaudeville (but with a mean streak).
japa21
@lonesomerobot: Or the clinging to guns and religion comment.
boatboy_srq
@Morzer: Just more proof that ATR was a grifter scam…
beltane
@Morzer: Norquist just doesn’t want to personally bear the brunt of a Trump attack. Club for Growth has invested a lot of money in bringing down Trump.
boatboy_srq
@Princess: You really expect Now Presenting Republicans – especially Mara “Never-Met-A-Very-Serious-Candidate-I-Didn’t-Like” Liasson – to address this?
Chris
@JoeShabadoo:
And worse, this is the second time in a row it happens with the same result. McCain and Romney, the base hated both of them, it held its nose and voted for them because the establishment pushed them through and because they supposedly had a chance of winning, and then both of them lost instead, each inflicting four years of Kenyan Muslim Socialist Usurper on the nation.
Morzer
@beltane:
But doesn’t it surprise you that what was once an absolutely unforgiveable heresy has now been uttered publicly by a GOP candidate, with not so much as a squeak from the grand inquisitor of that particular cult?
brendancalling
@Phylllis: that will only make his supporters even more loyal. There is no exit. To paraphrase Sartre, “Hell is your own base.”
beltane
@Chris: They used to say that Democrats fell in love while Republicans fell in line. This time around, it looks like the situations are reversed.
Paul in KY
@Morzer: They do see other idiots cash in (or think they cashed in).
Mr. Warhol was very prescient with his ‘In the future, everyone will be famous for 15 minutes’ comment.
gene108
Republicans have had six to seven years to smack the Birthers down, but they refused. Trump is no different than any other mainstream Republican, who refuses to tell the Birthers to shut the fuck up because they are crazy.
They all watched McCain, in 2008, get booed, when he said some Birther lady was wrong and Obama is an American.
Pretty much since then no Republican will go on record as saying Obama was born in America or stand up to the FEMA re-education camp crowd.
Trump’s response is pretty mainstream.
Morzer
@Chris:
Jeb! was supposed to be the establishment savior, but he’s got all the content and charm of a fiber-free bran muffin. That’s the GOP’s real problem – there is no-one to form a coalition of the slightly less delusional to defeat Trump’s 30%.
Mandalay
@Morzer:
That’s because Trump has not – and never will – sign Norquist’s precious tax pledge:
Hell would freeze over before Trump would make himself answerable to Norquist, and good for him.
SRW1
@rikyrah:
No doubt a Khamenei plant!
Morzer
@Mandalay:
How the mighty are fallen when The Great and Powerful Grover must wait in Trump’s anteroom for the possible attention of new staffers.
Paul in KY
@Morzer: It surprises me. Guess Der Donald has flummoxed him too.
boatboy_srq
@Chris: It almost makes you think the GOP establishment actually wants government to work, but is still convinced they need the ravening wingnut fringe on their side to get into office.
beltane
@Mandalay: Norquist’s wife is a Muslim. If he wants to personally launch an attack on Trump he will receive a response that will render him irrelevant in the future. While this would be a good thing for the country, Norquist isn’t dumb enough to take the bait.
JoeShabadoo
@Morzer: I think a lot of these people are afraid to attack Trump on taxing the rich because they know they will lose. Trump’s supporters think the rich aren’t taxed enough. They don’t want to rock the boat and show everyone that the cultural issues have been a trojan horse for unpopular policies. I imagine they stay awake at night worried that if they go after Trump on this he will actually attack their candidate for supporting the unpopular policy.
Morzer
@boatboy_srq:
Which is exactly the cry of betrayal that the base keeps raising against the Beltway RINOs.
Joel
They are who we thought they were.
beltane
Norquist would do best to lay low and not incur the Donald’s wrath: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/grover-norquist-secret-muslim-brotherhood-agent-conspiracy-returns-just-time-cpac
Elizabelle
@Chris: Thank you.
Caught both MSNBC and the opening of the Today show, and the reporters announced that “Obama is a Christian.”
And he should not have to be any particular religion to be President. It should be a private matter. We are told that Jesus was more a fan of those who prayed in private, not the public shows of religiosity.
I think a lot of the “Christian, Christian, Christian” will get deployed when the media eventually starts covering our Socialist Jew in the running. If they do. He is not as outrageous, and his message might be unsettling to those who own the microphones.
gene108
@gene108:
http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/28/obama-birthers-presidential-citizenship-opinions-columnists-dan-gerstein.html
Trump’s response is 100% in line with what has become the mainstream Republican response to the the crazy fuckers on the Right.
boatboy_srq
@Morzer: Ayuh.
I really can’t decide which is worse: the establishment pandering to wingnuttery just to get elected, or the wingnuts expecting that their b#tsh!ttery is what the US needs and to H311 with the rest of us.
Ule
@Patricia Kayden:
Jon Rockoford is obviously joking. It’s a joke. He’s channeling Colbert. You know, irony?
Hoodie
I suspect that Trump is near his peak, but this event is a signifier, not the cause, of his eventual decline. Those outbursts from the Archie Bunker Sturmabteilung just highlight the limits of his ability to come up with new gags. After you call everyone stupid and/or ugly and talk about your huge wall and deporting immigrants, the next step is rounding up the Muslims, gays, etc.. I suspect that even Trump doesn’t contemplate going there. I suspect the audiences will get bored with him, as they’re addicted to the xenophobic buzz and need to feed off increasingly violent incitements to keep it going and he will fail to deliver. Some real fascist like Cruz will try to take up the cause, but he’ll only be able to get the real crazies on board. A lot of the current Trump followers like the entertainment aspects he brings, but they’re not true believers.
Cermet
@beltane: Sorry, not biting – Clinton didn’t claim that and to say her paid staffers did is also nonsense. Saying some people who supported Clinton did say that is not the same thing and only someone in a padded room believes that.
boatboy_srq
@gene108: That was in Forbes? Wow. Now if only there were any confidence worth investing in the idea that the GOP of old were able to whip the b#tsh!t crazy wing into line.
CaseyL
@debbie:
Yes.
In the 1950s, Florida elected George Smathers (R) as Senator over Claude Pepper (D) in a campaign that included Smathers’ accusing Pepper’s daughter of being an “openly practicing thespian,” and his son of “masticating right there at the dinner table.”
The difference between now and then is, usually the more toxic stupid didn’t ooze upward to the Presidential election.
Morzer
@Hoodie:
Cruz has the problem of wanting to get the crazies on board while being about as charismatic and convincing as the cardboard cutouts of Ronald MacDonald. He’s managed to annoy just about everyone on his own side in Washington while gaining exactly zero bipartisanship points. He also, as far as I know, has relatively little cash. I suspect the ‘baggers will look elsewhere for their next crack-dealer.
boatboy_srq
@dmsilev: Ayuh. I’ve given up on parodying the Reichwing: they do so much better at it themselves.
Mandalay
@Morzer:
Norquist’s wife is Muslim. There is no way Trump would sign up with Norquist even if he agreed with him (and he obviously doesn’t when it comes to taxing hedge fund managers).
Norquist essentially runs a protection racket: if you sign his tax pledge and honor it you’re fine. If you don’t sign it, or don’t honor it, Norquist will ensure that your political career will be over, or never even begin.
The notion that you cannot ever raise taxes under any circumstances is both asinine and dangerous, and the Republican Party has belatedly realized that they never should have had anything to do with that vile shyster.
Trump simply doesn’t need Norquist.
beltane
@Cermet: I never said Clinton or her paid staffers said this. I will stand by my words that I first heard Obama was a Muslim from Clinton supporters, i.e. people who supported her candidacy and who donated to her campaign.
Morzer
I guess the big question here is what share of the vote is going to be enough to win the GOP primaries. It doesn’t look as if anyone is going to crack 50%+, barring an attack of the plague that carries off half the candidates. Could Trump’s 30% legions prevail?
dr. luba
That would probably be 27%, no? As time goes by, the trenchant analysis of Kung Fu Monkey continues to be validated.
Mike J
The people who believe Obama is a Muslim also believed Dick Cheney was a Christian.
beltane
@Morzer: Whatever happens, the Republican convention is going to be the ugliest political spectacle seen in this country for many, many years.
SRW1
@Morzer:
I suspect Norquist has very much registered this. The fact that he keeps silent is possibly because of a combination of
1. Norquist doesn’t believe Trump will be the GOP candidate.
2. Norquist’s wife is a palestinian Muslim.
At this point, Norquist probably figures that Trump wouldn’t be beyond attacking his wife Samah Norquist and 1. would make that fight inadvisable. Interesting thing is what Norquist would do if Trump were to become the GOP nominee.
What I suspect does cause Norquist concern, though, is that Trump mentioning tax increases doesn’t harm him with his suporters. Obviously, the herd hasn’t been sufficiently inocculated against the idea of tax increases!
ETA: What beltane said at #130.
Morzer
I wish I had thought of running Undead Reagan as a candidate. I would have trained him to extend “Nom, nom, nom” into “Nominate…nominate” and waited for the campaign cash and endorsements to roll in. Still, there’s always next time.
Thoughtful Today
(sigh)
Underestimating Republicans …
… I remember how that worked ’80 and ’84 …
Bobby Thomson
You’re a bloody optimist. You know the polling floor for the final solution is 27%. Not snark.
OGLiberal
@beltane: “In order to win over the racist base, the party makes itself unacceptable to all minorities and to a significant percentage of white voters.”
The last few years have me believing that a significant percentage of white voters – overall – are not that much less racist than the racist GOP base…they’re just more polite/covert about it.
FlipYrWhig
@CaseyL: The other difference is that when the Cold War was in full swing there was kind of a culture-wide incentive to make America and its people look good (enlightened, fair, equal, etc.), because everything that happened in the country was a potential advertisement for the rest of the world as it chose either capitalism or communism.
Elizabelle
OT: For anyone in the DC area this weekend:
Small Press Expo (comics and graphic novels — good ones!) at the Bethesda North Marriott, which is actually kinda in Rockville. 2-days, $20 for the weekend, or $15 for Saturday and $10 for Sunday. They have programs with speakers; very good.
Money well spent. It’s fun to see the artwork and the artists. Trigger warning: Ted Rall will be there this year.
On the good side, last year I got to hug Lynda Barry; year before, got to shake hands with John Lewis. Draws top line talent, and supports the up and coming.
Not sure I can go this weekend, but you might consider doing so.
Red line Metrorail, White Flint stop. One long block walk to the hotel.
JoeShabadoo
Why does everyone think its impossible for Trump to go any higher? I don’t think he is a 50% candidate but if Carson drops out I see him getting a decent bump.
karounie
I’m pretty late to this party, but I don’t read either the unidentified jackass or Trump as talking about rounding up American Muslims and putting them in camps. They are both quite inarticulate, but UJ is talking about “training camps.” I read his question as when are we going to bomb ISIS and Al Quaida encampments with drones or something? Doesn’t change anything else any one has written here however.
beltane
@Thoughtful Today: I do think that Trump, more so than the others, is a threat in the general election. We overlook the ignorance of low-info voters at our own peril. Many of these people will see Trump as the genial, straight-talking billionaire with the hot wife who will shower the plebes with bread and circuses.
Nero may be remembered today as an unhinged tyrant, but he was insanely popular with the poor folk of his time.
Morzer
@JoeShabadoo:
I think it’s quite possible for Trump to reach 35% without too much trouble once a couple of the Lesser Baggerati join Rick Perry in the choir eternal.
Mandalay
@beltane: Right. Norquist is on the way out. The GOP doesn’t like being beholden to him any more.
Norquist is currently forcing Bobby Jindal to jump though crazy hoops just to avoid the appearance of raising taxes. There will eventually come a time when even the spineless Republicans have finally had enough of the absurdity of an unelected jackass telling them how to run their state governments, and how to vote in Congress.
Morzer
@beltane:
Nero also gets credit for being the first person to practice gay marriage.
beltane
@OGLiberal: The majority of white Americans are, unfortunately, racist and will vote accordingly. In a presidential election, the Republican candidate is almost guaranteed to win the white vote. Even nutty, “I am not a witch” Christine O’Donnell won the majority of white male votes in blue Delaware. However, there is probably a solid third of white Americans who are impervious to racist appeals.
gbear
@Elizabelle:
I agree with you that Maddow does repeat messages a lot in her stories. I think that comes from the lessons she’s learned from FOX that if you keep on pounding the message, it’s going to sink in to the audience. On FOX, every show just keeps pounding on the same message all day for days/weeks at a time and it’s worked; they’ve turned a generation of ignorant couch potatoes into frothing morons. To me, it seems like Maddow is trying to use the same tactic for her own show (which does not get repeated 24/7).
I don’t watch her often because I don’t watch TV, but I can forgive her the tactic of repetition.
beltane
@Morzer: Most of his excesses were directed against other members of the ruling class. He was quite magnanimous with the ‘Roman Street”.
debbie
@beltane:
There’s been rumors circulating throughout RWNJ Nation that Grover is an operative of the Muslim Brotherhood. This is probably why he hasn’t spoken up.
ETA: Never mind, see you’re already there.
gbear
@boatboy_srq:
Only if it’s a republican candidate. She’ll attack Clinton and Sanders over the flimsiest of reasons. I always wind up lunging for the scan button when I try to listen to her.
Ben
@Marc: Trump is not going to be hurt by this bullshit, at least not yet. What all of his whacko comments will do is come back to bite him in the ass during the general. There is NO WAY for him to pivot away from the fringe bullshit he is pushing now during the general… the dems will have sound bite after sound bite of Trump proving he is a shrill, misogynistic, narcissistic scumbag. It is truly sad for the US that the gop has become so fringe, mostly because of the poor white trash teahadists that think anyone in the gop represents their interests. Mind bottling (yes, that is a joke).
Mandalay
@gbear:
While I am probably aligned with Maddow’s political views 99% of the time, she seems like a vile human being. She is far too comfortable with her sneering, condescension, sarcasm, mockery and derision for my tastes, however deserving of all that her targets may be. I don’t really care whether she is really like that, or is only acting out to earn a paycheck. Either way she is qualitatively little different to folks like Limbaugh and Hannity as far as I’m concerned.
Nietzsche said “He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster” and that really applies to Maddow. She may have the brains to become another Bill Moyers, but there’s no way she has the character.
Elizabelle
@gene108: Guy who wrote the Forbes article is a former communications director for Joe Lieberman; advised his presidential and VP campaigns.
Link is to the article. Writer is Dan Gerstein.
ruemara
Having read all the responses, I think the majority of you are being glib because you’re not recognizing the danger. This won’t hurt Trump in the least. This is who a particular subset of America is. They would happily vote for fascism, genocide and apartheid, while calling themselves good Christians. It’s not even a Republican problem, it’s a white problem. It’s a secret in the heart that many have felt uncomfortable with but certain of the truth: those people are lesser and we need to put them in their place. Truman’s birtherism, his racism, his quite visible evil – that’s an attractant. That some people feel he will shake things up and isn’t as horrific as he sounds, yeah that’s some clue-free privilege. As a POC, all I see is a terrible vision of a culture that has dropped nuclear bombs, interned it’s own citizens and nearly wiped out the natives of this land finding their willing ignorance of history leading to recreating it. Trump and his supporters are not a joke. It’s not some wacky free show, nor are their limits to their hatreds.
Elizabelle
@ruemara: RUEMARA! Welcome back. Lovely to see you.
What did you bring me to eat?
boatboy_srq
@gbear: Dems are never “Very Serious” anything. just ask Liasson.
Thoughtful Today
It’s a human characteristic ruemara.
pluege
the outrageous questioners are probably RNC plants.
Elizabelle
@ruemara: More seriously, you are correct.
Germany saw the danger, and consciously deNazified. We did not deal honestly with our slave-holding and people-exploiting past. We don’t even teach it accurately, in too many schools, and not fully enough until one gets to college (if one is so inclined as to formally study US history).
It’s been mythologized and turned on its head, to “heritage” and made to sound like charming little folkways.
It has come back to haunt, and all our elites can say is “what is this doing in the drawing room, now?”
They’ve been feeding the beast. It’s still hungry.
Pete
To be fair, if you watch the video, Trump really steps on the last line of the question with his response and didn’t even appear to be listening to the “when can we get rid of them” part. It’s more likely that he was talking about the “training camps”. That said, still a terrible and disturbing exchange.
Applejinx
Trump’s fucking smart. He knows exactly what he’s doing and saying.
He’s like, “I like this guy! We need to hear from this guy!” which is legit: no reason not to hear from the crazy, in fact they get ornery if you try to make them shut up. Trump’s all smiles, he really does want to hear the guy. That’s valuable.
What does he give back? “We’re going to look into it.” He gave a complete, total, nothing answer, an absolute handwave and made ’em like it. He has promised nothing… nothing! He’s not even ENDORSED the views. He didn’t even suggest that he agreed. You can’t hang him on this one, he handled himself very well.
He might even literally ‘look into’ the issue and go, yup, it’s bullshit, just as I suspected. Useful, though!
I’m not saying Trump isn’t a psychopath. He’s playing with dangerous forces and feeding them, indulging them for his own benefit. He’d tell you that was the art of the deal, and wouldn’t be far wrong, but it’s still a bad thing.
He is, however, doing it very well.
Also, if he knows Grover Norquist’s wife is Muslim, goodbye Grover. Trump need only trump up some red-scare energy and then accuse Norquist of plotting to destroy the country by starving it of money in hopes of drowning America in a bathtub and traipsing off to wherever his wife comes from, job well done. Norquist would be lucky to get out of that alive. You can make a case that the whole ‘starve the government, drown it in the bathtub’ thing is treasonous and designed to make America weaker and unable to do HYOOOGE things.
Trump’s clearly happier with fascism and building giant goldplated stuff with his name on it. There is no way in hell Grover Norquist can survive in a Trump world.
boatboy_srq
@pluege: They can’t really do that with Cruz, Carson, Walker and the rest all likely to respond exactly the same way. What happens when one of the ratfvckers winds up at the wrong rally and
does what s/he’s being paid to doasks the same question?Gin & Tonic
@Elizabelle: Does anyone remember the beginnings of Headline News? You could get a good roundup, on every half hour, of news presented much like Cronkite and Brinkley and others used to do it.
Plus Lynne Russell was the hawt.
boatboy_srq
@Applejinx:
There’s a part of me waiting for that moment: when the fissure between No-Taxes-Ever-For-Anything and Fvcking-Mooslims-Taking-Over cracks wide open. I’ll definitely need more popcorn then.
Brachiator
Given that about 43% of Republicans believe that Obama is a Muslim and not American, this kind of thing will not do Trump in. I don’t know why people insist on indulging in the fantasy that the hard core GOP base will be repelled by this. To the contrary, the notion that a “legitimate” important business man and media celebrity like Trump endorses paranoid fantasies will draw more people to him.
What’s funnier is that this stuff will frighten the GOP establishment trying desperately to get rid of Trump. But he is merely using and amplifying the nonsense that the GOP elite has been encouraging ever since Obama was nominated.
Hoists and petards, you know.
Cervantes
How do you picture it happening?
Elizabelle
@Gin & Tonic: And now she was involved in an Albuerqueque Motel 6 shoot up — a gun saved her life (actually, it did), so Lynne’s got a whole new crowd of peeps who love her hawtness.
But yes, I liked her as an anchor. And all of the others, some now deceased.
He was with CNN proper, but why do we still have Andrea Mitchell Greenspan on our teevees, but Aaron Brown is no longer in broadcast news? He was excellent.
Bobby Thomson
@debbie: yes. SATSQ.
Thoughtful Today
I fear Applejinx may be correct: “Trump’s fucking smart. He knows exactly what he’s doing and saying.”
Trump’s a modern media genius, he’s been a successful media king for … what, decades?
Don’t underestimate him. So far everyone that has … has been wrong.
Also: Treating him as if he’s an idiot means he can NOT fail the ‘expectation’s game’.
(And Praise the Lord! if I’m proven wrong soon.)
Bobby Thomson
@Elizabelle: the internet made Headline News obsolete. But it was a solid program. The main broadcaster was a wingnut but you never knew it.
lonesomerobot
I am seriously hating these video ads on here. They keep forcing the page to jump back up to them. Damn you, Trump!!
Bobby Thomson
@beltane: and when some of us pointed out that they were assholes we were accused of stifling democracy.
ETA: and some of the very same PUMA assholes are now doing their best to hobble Clinton, making their ratfuckery pretty damn plain.
WaterGirl
@ruemara: So glad to see your comment. I think it’s spot on.
Felonius Monk
For whatever reason, everyone on the Republican side and the MSM seems intimidated by Trump. No one is really willing to confront him directly — they just snipe at his heels, occasionally try to bite his ankles, and talk behind his back.
I think Kevin Drum nailed it pretty well:
Ian
@raven:
Who is Buch??? If you are refering to any of the Bushes, yes, they are murderers.
feebog
I think we make the mistake of thinking everyone else in the country is as engaged as Juciers. I have a young guy who I go around and around with on facebook when it comes to politics. It is always civil, but he is quite conservative. He thinks Trump is a clown and won’t vote for him if he wins the primary, period. I have another friend I play golf with weekly. He is quite concerned about illegal immigration and thinks we need much stronger border protection. But he admitted to me yesterday that although he was leaning towards Trump a few months ago, he is completely turned off now. I think Trump is slowly shedding the non-crazy conservatives.
Pie Happens (opiejeanne)
@Jon Rockoford: Nice. (muslin is cotton fabric that has not yet been dyed or printed).
Elizabelle
@Bobby Thomson: I think Headline News is far from obsolete. I think it’s something that we need, right now.
The internet is a firehose, and readers can use it to narrowcast. HLN was great in serving up 22 minutes of curated, accurately reported news from around the US and world, with some human interest, every half hour. You got some kind of a broader knowledge base, and HLN could pull from CNN and its properties.
Plus, it’s kind of soothing, to hear the repetition, to someone who has the TV on for news or company. Better to listen to HLN than have Fox News on, even if you think you’re immune to their messages.
You mentioned no one could tell the politics of the anchors. That’s great. I don’t recall their being inaccurate of “both sides” though. Maybe HLN departed before that “view from nowhere” predominated.
To me, what’s obsolete are the nightly network broadcasts. You can see from their commercials their audience is elderly and ailing.
And we need an informed populace. It’s sinful (that word again) to leave that job to comedians and late night talk show hosts.
Applejinx
@Felonius Monk: That is how they try to take Trump down, which is why it doesn’t work. Everything has to be about the ranking Big Swinging Dick in the race, so they try to take him down by ‘calling out’ the unreasonable things he’s done, and asking for measured and Presidential repudiation of the buffoonery.
But they’re Republicans. They created this monster. Last time they managed to force Romney to be the final guy, and he lost. They’re still trying to manufacture an establishment candidate who meets Village needs, and it’s too late for that (possibly too late for both sides).
I consider Trump MORE likely to be the R nominee than Sanders is to be the D nominee (which I also think is likely, more so once we start ramping up the ground game and get organized/grassroots. I don’t think that’s truly underway for all the stadium-filling)
Look at it this way, when we run Sanders against Trump, we can say “hi! We intend to crank up taxes on the 1%. So does Trump, but we’re not crazy and we’ll actually be able to get something out of it that isn’t gold, hyoooge and with the Trump name on it! :D”
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
However, the people who support him want to blow everything up. They are not serious types.
Unfortunately I think you are wrong. They are serious, and they do want to blow everything up. If you mean serious as in having anything to replace what they blow up then OK but I think this is a real problem, not at least understanding that they really do want to blow it all up. I don’t fully understand why or what they expect after the debris falls because I’m sure they don’t either. But these are the people that have been told all their lives that they aren’t getting their due because of, insert whatever here, and they have to fight for, insert same. Along comes a loud mouthed, angry, extremely self-centered egomaniac, just like they see themselves, who promises to do just that, fight for them and their whatever. They aren’t going to abandon him. And we shouldn’t dismiss him or the reasons he has gained and held sway over a not inconsiderable portion of our citizens without understanding why. That they are crazy isn’t enough reason. You can’t fix or partition off a problem without knowing why that problem exists.
Heliopause
I’m no expert on the religion, but isn’t it literally impossible to be a “secret” muslim?
moderateindy
As one of many that believe today’s Republican party has gone off the deep end, I ask seriously; If you are a progressive which GOP candidate would you rather have win the nomination?
If, FSM forbid, a Republican won the presidency in 2016 I would rather see a President Trump than any of the other GOP candidates in that position.
Trump’s a clown, and would be an awful president. But overall, he probably holds views that are more in line with progressives than the rest of them.
Even his immigration stance is most likely contrived bluster for the bigotted masses he’s courting. Were he elected, his grand plan would surely fade away after the CBO scored it. Though I’m sure the yuuuge wall would still be built, complete with a classy Trump sign on it. (Those of you in the Chicago area will know what I mean)
So out of the current field of crazy, if a Republican did become president, which would be the preferred candidate of the BJ crowd?
Elizabelle
@moderateindy: I agree with you. I think Trump is the closest to Earth orbit.
RE Kasich: he would be beholden to the rotten corruption that is the Republican party. More dangerous, actually.
The rest are not worth mentioning.
We must win the White House in 2016. Supreme Court.
A guy
I don’t know if Obama is Muslim or not. I don’t care. His policies are anti-American. I do care bout that
Bill
I’m starting to think that before every campaign event Trump says something to his handlers like: “Watch this! I’m going to say the most racist insane shit I can think of out there. We’re finally going to kill this campaign and get back to selling some books and real estate.”
Two days later when his poll numbers are even better he’s saying: “Son Of A Bitch! What is it going to take for this thing to die?”
Which is to say. There is no mean, sexist, racist, homophobic, xenophobic thing he can say that will diminish his popularity with the Republican base.
Kerry Reid
If he personally pulls out his wang and pisses on a homeless person, Trump will have the nomination sewn up.
boatboy_srq
@Bill:
This because there is no more mean, sexist, racist, homophobic, xenophobic entity on the planet than the Republican base.
Bill
@boatboy_srq: Indeed.
Elizabelle
@boatboy_srq: Um, I hear the Taliban are a bit of a handful.
boatboy_srq
@Elizabelle: I’ll concede the point. Although I do think that the GOTea hates the Taliban only because the Taliban can do what the Teahad only dreams about.
Thoughtful Today
Tim F., to your lips to God’s ear, http://memeorandum.com currently has Trump’s failure to correct the his supporter’s rancid accusations of Obama as it’s top set of stories right now.
Cross our collective fingers that the blowback lasts past the Friday’s news dump.
Cervantes
@boatboy_srq:
There are groups in Israel that can put your assertion to a test.
BSC
@debbie: 27% of them sure have.
Frank Bolton
@moderateindy: No. Trump would not be better for the cause of progressivism/fate of America.
First: the quote/unquote sane things he’s proposing would have no chance of passing. The money men still hold the GOPers in Congress by the balls, they can just blow up his new regulations or tax increases. But even if he did get that shit done, except with the possible exception of climate change it pales in comparison to the second downside:
Having a candidate who got into office after all of the evil shit he said would fully legitimize fascism. Yes Bush killed hundreds of thousands of people and Reagan humped the leg of apartheid. However, they stopped just short of legitimizing Milosevic-style ethnic cleansing in their own country. For all of the ‘bah, Trump is the GOP minus dog whistles’ sneering, this is genuinely new and dangerous territory. Even if Trump doesn’t actually make any progress with his ethnic cleansing, he’s still handing the relay baton to a more competent, less buffoonish fascist who wants to ride that same pony.
And while the GOP has a very difficult path to the Presidency without the racial minority vote, there are still a couple of paths they could take to get it. Depending on how popular economic leftism + white aggrievement is, Trump could get 10% of the racial minority vote and still win by picking up Romney states + most of Iowa/New Hampshire/Minnesota/Pennsylania/Michigan/Minnesota/Virginia/Ohio. Obama won almost all of those states save Michigan by single digits in 2012. If a recession or foreign policy debacle happens, we could be in a world of shit.
J R in WV
@Princess:
The other thing that enraged me listening to NPR today, the discussion of the video about Planned Parenthood, and the outrage in the repubilcan party because of that video.
No mention that the video is a fraud, false in every way, edited to present a false impression, that Planned Parenthood sells aborted fetuses, all of it a damed lie presented by people who have been proven liars for years now.
I’m this close to shutting down the monthly contribution we make to public broadcasting, and sending them a letter with the specifics of why I won’t be funding their BS anymore. As much as I enjoy the classical music, the jazz, the edgy folk rock…. the fake politics is about to send me around the bend.