Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Innocent people do not delay justice.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

Radicalized white males who support Trump are pitching a tent in the abyss.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

So very ready.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

Stay strong, because they are weak.

Let me file that under fuck it.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

Giving in to doom is how we fail to fight for ourselves & one another.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

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Reader Interactions

137Comments

  6. 6.

    TaMara (BHF)

    So conservative Catholic SCJ decided to diss the Pope. Do they still get to take communion? Isn’t this a really bad thing? (Not Catholic, so just wondering).

  7. 7.

    Betty Cracker

    O/T and about a different religion, but damn, the hajj stampede story just keeps getting worse (700 dead, according to the latest reports). I realize the hajj season has something to do with the lunar cycle, but does anyone know if there’s a hard and fast religious stricture that necessitates compressing the timeframe so much, or is it just customary?

  8. 8.

    Dave L

    Most likely Republicans will note patronizingly that the Pope just doesn’t understand economic/science/human nature, and then complain that he should stick to religionizing, and stay out of politics.

    You know, same complaint they always used to make about John Paul II when he was shaking things up in eastern Europe.

  9. 9.

    Emerald

    Pope Francis appears actually to be a Christian. That’s a rare quality for a Christian leader. It pisses off the fake Christians, but it’s highly attractive to everybody else.

  14. 14.

    Betty Cracker

    @schrodinger’s cat: As much as I despise that government (and it is among the most evil on the planet, IMO), wouldn’t it be tough for any country to handle such a gigantic influx of people in such a small space in such a limited timeframe?

  16. 16.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    I have to say, I’m really enjoying all of the various meltdowns by the conservative Catholics who condescendingly told me to STFU and sit down when I didn’t agree with the last couple of popes. Who’s a cafeteria Catholic *now,* bichezz?!

  19. 19.

    Haydnseek

    Uh, John, the vast majority of people who saw him will ignore most if not all of what he said. They will show a few friends/co-workers smartphone pics if they were there, fish for ego strokes by making it known that they were in the actual presence of the actual pope, then in a day or two it’s like it never happened. Because nothing really did.

  20. 20.

    Elizabelle

    CNN just had the Very Serious Person Karen Tumulty (formerly TIME, now WaPost) saying Both Parties are playing to their Extreme Bases now, so Nothing Will Be Done about Francis’s message.

    It’s all about politics and the base and apparently the Democratic base is as out there and extreme as the GOP one.

    It’s like being given a beautiful toy, and Tweety and Tumulty and others couldn’t wait fast enough to spit on it and break it and tell you that nothing will come of the speech anyway.

    Click. It is to vomit.

  21. 21.

    john not mccain

    The pope believes that I shouldn’t have equal rights under the law because I’m gay. Fuck him and all other disgusting bigot swine.

  22. 22.

    shell

    Loved how there was a standing ovation when the Pope mentioned protecting life at all stages,,,presuming he was gonna launch into abortion but he then segued into the death penalty. D’oh!

  27. 27.

    Amir Khalid

    @Betty Cracker:
    The haj takes place over a five or six-day period every 12 lunar months (i.e. annually in the Muslim lunar calendar).
    In the middle of this BBC story is a list of pilgrim stampedes that have happened every few years since the early 1990s, when the number of incoming pilgrims started shooting up. Basically, the problem is that since 1990 the Saudi government has been overwhelmed by the several million pilgrims who converge in Mecca for that one week every year.

  28. 28.

    Elizabelle

    FWIW: I think Congress and the press are behind on understanding the American public. It happened with Obama, and they are slow on the uptake of what Sanders’ and Trump’s popularity means.

    Mainly because they don’t want to understand it.

    People are so damned sick of the status quo, and old media and corrupt, beholden Congress is a big part of that.

    Also: watching John Boehner look at the Pope’s applauding crowds out on the Mall: he looked concerned. He can feel the winds changing too.

  33. 33.

    Mandalay

    @efgoldman:

    Anyway, where’s it written in the blog operations manual that he can’t make a quick, cogent point?

    Indeed. If only some of the other windbags would follow his fine example. If an OP needs to write a screed to make a point they’re probably doing it wrong.

  34. 34.

    Betty Cracker

    @Amir Khalid: Thanks for the info. Sounds like an intractable problem if there’s no way to expand the time window and the number of visitors will just keep rising.

  41. 41.

    Germy Shoemangler

    I wonder which parts of the speech will be highlighted on the network evening news, and which parts will be overlooked?

    And now here I’ll get really paranoid. Last night, CBS News devoted a surprising amount of time to the controversy over the Serra canonization. They even interviewed a protester who said her people were wiped out when the christians arrived. I agree with the protesters, but I wonder if the network had an ulterior motive. I mean, c’mon, normally a story like this is something I’d only hear on Democracy Now.

    If Ratzinger had done this, would it be an obscure Amy Goodman exclusive, unheard by the larger audience? It just didn’t seem like something the networks would usually care about, unless they were trying to do some subtle undermining. (Also, the guy who filed the report looked like he came right out of Young Republican Central Casting)

  43. 43.

    Belafon

    Yogi Berra was an anchor baby:

    Yogi was born in 1925 and 1930 U.S. Census records show that Yogi’s father, Pietro, who arrived in the U.S. from northern Italy in 1909, still declared as an alien five years after Yogi was born. So did his mother, Pauline. It didn’t matter to Yogi, of course. The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guaranteed him citizenship.

    Berra died Tuesday, and here’s the Sports Illustrated headline on its obituary: “Remembering the great American life of Yankees Legend Yogi Berra.” Yogi’s certainly was a great American life. Emphasis on “American.” And it was a life made possible by the 14th Amendment.

  44. 44.

    eemom

    He may be a good and decent man, but fuck this shit.

    I don’t get the liberal gushing over a Pope — ANY Pope. However “progressive” he might be on SOME of “our” issues, he and his institution are still firmly back in the Dark Ages, and going nowhere, on many others.

    Not to mention such institution continues to be a despicable apologist and protector of child abusers.

  45. 45.

    Elizabelle

    Blurb on front page of WaPost:

    under picture of Dorothy Day:

    Pope cited a radical, and Bernie Sanders is thrilled

  46. 46.

    rikyrah

    @Elizabelle:

    CNN just had the Very Serious Person Karen Tumulty (formerly TIME, now WaPost) saying Both Parties are playing to their Extreme Bases now, so Nothing Will Be Done about Francis’s message.

    Phuck them…they just don’t want to call out the GOP… because you know, both side do it.

  48. 48.

    srv

    There are around 120 electing Cardinals. 95+% appointed by John Paul II or Benedict. 3 or 4 of them are Jesuit. Everyone else is Opus Dei or worse.

    How this Pope got elected will make a great story some day.

    But he’s like Obama, a lot of people are projecting stuff on him.

  49. 49.

    Mandalay

    @john not mccain:

    The pope believes that I shouldn’t have equal rights under the law because I’m gay. Fuck him and all other disgusting bigot swine.

    You certainly have a point. While there is a lot of pope love going on right now, let’s not overlook some of the positions of Pope Francis:
    – Opposed to gay rights.
    – Opposed to women becoming priests.
    – Opposed to abortions for victims of r?pe and inc?st.
    – Opposed to abortions when the life of the mother is endangered.

    This pope is a good guy compared to the last one, in the same way that John Kasich is a good guy compared to Ted Cruz. But there is still something fundamentally wrong and rotten with the some of the core beliefs of both John Kasich and Pope Francis.

  54. 54.

    Oatler.

    “When the last conservative is strangled with the entrails of the last pope” or something, I forget the rest.

  56. 56.

    The Raven on the Hill

    My take on him is he is a mighty political ally, but not a political friend. I would not call anyone whose views of women and gays are so cruel “good and decent.”

    I think he is engendering a lot of false hope. :-(

  58. 58.

    trollhattan

    @Paul in KY:
    “The new Trump Mecca(tm) will be YOUUUUGE and classy! I will install people movers so nobody walks, nobody stampedes.”

    Come to think of it, The Donald and the Saudis would be quite the pairing. Finally, a new home for Miss Universe.

    ETA, Darn you BiG!

  59. 59.

    redshirt

    @the Conster: Maine is currently struggling with wingnut insanity.

    Our governor might be the worst in the USA, except he’s too incompetent/crazy to get much terrible stuff done. Plus, our representatives are able to check him for the most part.

  60. 60.

    jl

    @Belafon: Well, Yogi is safe now, but who did he marry? If she was not a citizen at the time their kids were born, they will have to watch out for the deportation squads, which sounds nasty, but it will done humanely and the families will be kept together, somehow or other.

  63. 63.

    kdaug

    Full stop. (Ain’t read upstream yet.)
    “What he said”? I listened to the whole damned thing. What he said was the same palablum, circuitis references to vague and generalized ideas, open to various interpretations. By design.
    I know a girl who does palm readings. Funny as shit, a blast to hang out with, but she does the same thing

  65. 65.

    NotMax

    If I hear the word “historic” thrown out higgledy-piggledy one more time, shall upchuck.

    “We have word the Pope is nearing the conclusion of the historic motorcade to Andrews. Here he will board this chartered 777 jet for his historic flight to New York.”

    (reaches for remote)

  67. 67.

    Belafon

    @kdaug: Yeah, taking care of the poor, ending the death penalty, and dealing with the environment are vague generalities (well, except for ending the death penalty), that still need to be said to people.

    The Bible mentions taking care of the poor over 100 times. It still has to be said.

  68. 68.

    catclub

    @srv:

    How this Pope got elected will make a great story some day.

    He has also mentioned he will not reign for long – probably a second resignation.

  71. 71.

    agorabum

    @Amir Khalid: The problem with the fundamentalist nature of Saudi Arabia is that they can’t just tack another week onto the hajj. Seems the obvious solution to overcrowding. I don’t know Muhammad, but I’ll bet he would be fine with it.

  73. 73.

    HinTN

    @Amir Khalid:

     (i.e. annually in the Muslim lunar calendar).

    The haj could take place twice in one year since there are thirteen lunar months per year, could it not.

  74. 74.

    the Conster

    @Amir Khalid:

    I’ve been meaning to ask someone who is Muslim – what could ever crack open Saudi Arabia’s fundamentalist, closed system? It does seem that in the long march to “civilzation” – ie., equal rights for women and minorities, freedom to practice other religions, access to secular beliefs and justice – Saudi Arabia is bringing up the rear.

  75. 75.

    Bill

    @Emerald:

    Pope Francis appears actually to be a Christian.

    Look, I get that Frankie Goes To Hollywood is better than the last few Popes on some issues that matter to liberals, but let’s not go all “No True Scotsman.” The idea that the liberal wing of Christianity is the “real” religion, has as much viability as Westboro Baptist’s claim to the same. Once you accept a belief system that lacks foundational evidence, everyone has an equal claim to truth. And the book that allegedly supports the whole belief system is so vague it can be read to support almost any beliefs you want.

  77. 77.

    Elizabelle

    Please, let’s pick the Pope to bits. He’s a vast improvement over the 2 previous ones (he’s not persecuting nuns for following their conscience; he’s not abortion, abortion, abortion all the time; he’s vocal on climate change and economic inequality — which the Catholic Church has taken seriously for some time).

    Can’t we work with him on the issues he’s good on?

    FWIW, I don’t think he’s personally against gay rights. He seems very inclusive. Be interesting to hear his take on married priests; he must realize that’s a lot of the root of the pedophilia scandals. Limiting the pool of candidates ridiculously, holding them to an inhumane standard of perfection, and keeping them under Rome’s control.

    Has he come out stridently against women as priests? That’s a far step for the Catholic Church, but is it something Francis personally speaks out against? He seems to respect women.

    The word “abortion” never appeared in today’s speech to Congress.

    I look forward to our thread on Abraham Lincoln, racist and war criminal, up next. Why should he get a shout out?

  78. 78.

    NotMax

    @agorabum

    As so many of these mass tramplings take place in the valley where the ritual stoning of the Devil takes place, much more serious and strict crowd (and time) management obviously needs to be instituted. Also to be considered is preparing a different location for pilgrims’ tents for spending the night, other than that same valley.

    @Amir Khalid

    Just curious – you’re the only one can recall who consistently spells hajj with only one j when writing in English. Is there a particular rationale for that?

  79. 79.

    brantl

    I am pissed off that they chose to sanctify an asshole that took Native American kids away from their parents, and brainwashed/bullied them into Roman Catholicism. And he chose to announce it, while here. That’s pure unadulterated bullshit, right there.

  80. 80.

    Belafon

    @Bill: When we talk about him being a truer “Christian”, we’re specifically referring to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Most conservatives that you see making noice on TV or in the letters to the editor that call themselves Christian, if you were to stack their beliefs against the Bible, are following the teachings of Paul more than Jesus.

  81. 81.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @john not mccain:

    FWIW, you’re going to be hard-pressed to find an international religious leader who is in favor of LGBT rights. Even the Dalai Lama is at best only mildly anti-gay.

    As people said above, you can use the Pope’s words to support moral arguments about climate change and financial regulation to people you think might listen to him without having to buy into everything he says. Take what’s useful to you and discard the rest.

  82. 82.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Bill:

    As I said above, as a recovering Catholic it’s very amusing to me to see the same conservatives who demanded that I listen to JPII or Benedict without questioning them now hem and haw when Francis says things they don’t like. It’s less about who’s a Real True Catholic (Christian) and more about pointing out that they’re being hypocrites about the standard that *they themselves put in place.* If you can measure your Catholic devotion by your obedience to the Pope, what does that saw about their own touted devotion when the new Pope says things they don’t agree with.

  84. 84.

    kc

    He seems like a nice Pope and all, but I personally don’t think it’s a wise move to ask our political leaders to start taking directions from the Pope.

  85. 85.

    Amir Khalid

    @the Conster:
    I don’t think that even the fall of the House of Saud would change that now. You’re talking about the kind of change that took centuries with Christianity in Europe. Islam as a whole — not just Saudi Arabia — would need another Enlightenment, like we had back in the Golden Age and subsequently lost.

  87. 87.

    jl

    @Belafon:

    ” if you were to stack their beliefs against the Bible, are following the teachings of Paul more than Jesus. ”

    Most fundamentalist Xtianist churches are Dispensationalist, which believes that the earthly Jesus teachings were part of an earlier ‘dispensation’ Earthly Jesus taught the Gospel to the Jews of the time, who rejected the teachings, and so God called off that one and dealt a new hand. The new hand is Jesus as Christ, and the teachings are in the Epistles. (Edit: and the Christ is coming back with sward to judge and kick ass, that lovey-dovey stuff was over with after the Crucifixion).

    This is fantastical, and they take this version of progressive revelation to such an extreme that it should be called a heresy, which sounds so cute and quaint these day, but if words have any meaning and you take RC or mainline Protestant theology as the standard, it is true.

    The current reactionary capitalist patriarchal sex cult version is also crazy because even they leave the Epistles far behind. Paul was much more sensible and humane about sexy time sins than the Xtianists, and about how a Christian should live in a non-believing world. And James pretty much explains why earthly Jesus teachings are relevant after Jesus became the Christ, or was revealed to be the Christ and ascended to Heaven, or however it works, technically.

    I am not advocating anyone believe any of this fancy theology, but those are the history facts. There is a smidgen of crazy rhyme and reason to what these people believe, but not much.

  88. 88.

    Roger Moore

    @HinTN:

    The haj could take place twice in one year since there are thirteen lunar months per year, could it not.

    It could take place twice in a solar year because a solar year is more than 12 lunar months. But unlike other lunar calendars (e.g. Chinese, Jewish) the Muslim calendar does not have intercalary months to keep it in sync with the solar calendar; that’s why Ramadan isn’t always at the same time of year.

  89. 89.

    Amir Khalid

    @NotMax:
    I don’t think you could fault the Saudi Government’s commitment of resources here. They’ve already built a five-storey structure around the pillars where you throw your pebbles at the devil. They spend a heap on infrastructure and crowd control just for the Haj, which doubles Mecca’s population to 4-plus million people for a week every year. I think the sheer numbers overwhelm any measures you can take, and what they need to do is reduce the number of Haj pilgrims, maybe by half — which may mean a years-long wait for a Haj visa for many people, which is bound to piss them off.

  90. 90.

    Morzer

    Politically, I think the Pope is pretty much a wash. Conservatives will hear the anti-gay and abortion stuff, liberals will hear the social justice stuff. That said, a wash is a much better situation for liberals than it was under his two most recent predecessors, which is why conservatives are having themselves a bit of a freak-out.

  91. 91.

    redshirt

    It’s relative. Having a Pope who actually speaks to the main subject of Christianity is a breath of fresh air compared to the American religious hypocrites who seemingly have no connection to Christianity whatsoever. That said, Christianity is a scam as are all churches and religious organizations.

  93. 93.

    Roger Moore

    @Elizabelle:

    FWIW, I don’t think he’s personally against gay rights. He seems very inclusive. Be interesting to hear his take on married priests; he must realize that’s a lot of the root of the pedophilia scandals.

    I don’t think that’s the root of the pedophilia scandal at all. They may get a more pedophiles because they’re pulling disproportionately from men with non-standard sexuality, but they aren’t so desperate for priests that they couldn’t weed out pedophiles. The root of the scandal isn’t that there were pedophile priests but that the Church protected them at the expense of the children they raped.

    To a substantial extent, that kind of thinking is exactly what Francis was brought in to deal with. While we tend to see the difference between Benedict (and John Paul) and Francis as being one of conservative and liberal, I think the thing that led to his election was a conflict between the curia and the pastoral sides of the church. Benedict had been the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, more or less the chief doctrinal enforcer, and was an insider’s insider. He was so wrapped up in doctrine that he neglected the part where the Church is supposed to minister to the people.

    Francis, OTOH, is an outsider; he spent his whole career until being made Pope out in the world looking after his parishioners. That outsider status is exactly what the Church needed, both to clean up corruption in the Curia and to refocus the Church on its pastoral mission rather than insider stuff. But it’s exactly that insider’s attitude, paying attention to what the priests are doing while neglecting the parishioners, that led the church to care more about protecting their priests from punishment- and the church from scandal- than protecting children from rapists. A church that put the laity first would never have done that.

  94. 94.

    catclub

    @jl:

    and so God called off that one and dealt a new hand.

    So for being a perfect and unchangeable (ask St Augustine) being, he sure goofs up a lot.
    Similar thing happened with the flood. There was some argument between him and Abraham (?) over whether to go ahead and destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. There are multiple creation stories. I think Moses convinced him to change his mind over killing all the Israelites over that Golden Calf thing.

  95. 95.

    catclub

    @Amir Khalid:

    I don’t think you could fault the Saudi Government’s commitment of resources here.

    If they have had repeated stampedes, in the same place, at the same part of the ritual, then they have not committed enough (or the effective) resources to the problem.

  96. 96.

    catclub

    @Roger Moore:

    He was so wrapped up in doctrine that he neglected the part where the Church is supposed to minister to the people.

    Luckily he still had the sense to resign.

  100. 100.

    Morzer

    @Roger Moore:

    The older I get, the more I believe that people are the product of the institutions through which they pass and within which they exist and work. I think that the Catholic church created institutions which were closed to realistic discussion of human sexuality as well as given to keeping secrets and covering up bad behavior, while at the same time giving sexually needy men power over impressionable younger minds. This created the perfect environment for abuse, its concealment and its self-perpetuation.

  101. 101.

    NotMax

    @Amir Khalid

    Still, there’s no denying it’s a chokepoint. Removing the thousands camping out there in tents to elsewhere and limiting access to X per hour would seem to be a possible amelioration.

  103. 103.

    Amir Khalid

    @NotMax:
    The Saudis do havesuch a pedestrian-traffic control system in place, and the reports suggest it was overwhelmed by the numbers of pilgrims.

  104. 104.

    MomSense

    @the Conster:

    There’s a Walmart distribution center in Lewiston and a Walmart Super Center in Auburn (neighboring city). I wonder how he would feel about publishing how many of those employees receive public assistance of any kind.

    SMDH

  106. 106.

    qwerty42

    @Mandalay: Yeah, my thought is that he can hope to get things started for married clergy. It won’t happen while he Pope, but it will happen. Female clergy will follow (by some years). There will have to be some revision by theologians to change the stance on gays, as that in one way or another has been around for enough years. The society at large will have long changed, so if the church can grasp at a “gay gene” to pull itself out, it will.

  107. 107.

    bystander

    @Elizabelle:

    Also: watching John Boehner look at the Pope’s applauding crowds out on the Mall: he looked concerned. He can feel the winds changing too.

    I noticed The Guardian today listing questions that would be answered today. Leading the list? Would Boehner start crying? I thought that was pretty cold, but I was wrong. Just saw a clip of Boehner contorting his face in a vain effort to fight back his waterworks. Guy needs to address his depression.

  108. 108.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Roger Moore:

    Well, the RCC *is* pretty desperate for clergy these days, and you probably do have a larger percentage of people with screwed-up sexualities who join the priesthood because they’re hoping to cure themselves with prayer.

    However, the root of the problem was not that there were a large number of pedophile priests, but that the statistically small number that existed kept getting shuffled around from parish to parish with no warning to the parishioners, so they were able to do a huge amount of damage even though their overall numbers were small.

    If the church had been smart and banished any priest accused of pedophilia to an adults-only monastery in the middle of nowhere (essentially imprisoning them), the damage could have been minimized. But, as you said, they decided to prioritize the clergy over the laity, and it was a disaster for everyone.

    Add in the corrupt institutions like the Magdalene laundries and you pretty much have an internal culture that protects abusers and shuts out the abused.

  110. 110.

    Elizabelle

    @qwerty42: And before married clergy, they’re going to have to be more honest about allowing “artificial” birth control or their pastoral types are going to parents of eight, in addition to ministering to the parish. Dug themselves that own hole.

    @Roger Moore: Excellent assessment. Still seems to me, though, that the Church is scarce priests, at least in my experience.

  111. 111.

    Elizabelle

    @redshirt: I think that’s possible. Also, he may have picked up on genuine affection and emotions and have been, uh, overcome by that.

    A lot of people can’t stand Boehner, but I feel some level of sympathy for him. What an awful job, and what awful people to have to work with. He probably is more sick of the Tea Party and other renegades (retrogrades, and radicals) than we are, and as much a bitter connoisseur of their missteps and idiocies.

    OTOH, he’s making a great salary, full expenses, and a healthy pension and benefits … no one is forcing him to hold that job.

  112. 112.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Amir Khalid:

    I’ve always wondered why other people spell “Haj” with two Js. It’s not like you can pronounce the second J.

    Yes, because the first J is silent

  113. 113.

    Elizabelle

    Mind you, I can’t stand to listen to Boehner and his derision either. Only able to say that because I pretty much don’t watch TV about politics any more. It’s been calming. Boehner’s going to have to be on a Law & Order rerun for me to hear him open his mouth.

    Giuliani’s been on several L&Os. Always on his best behavior, though.

  114. 114.

    Bill

    @Belafon:

    When we talk about him being a truer “Christian”, we’re specifically referring to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

    The Jesus who allegedly said he came to fulfill the law of the old testament? That Jesus? The one who apparently was just fine with Leviticus et al?

    Again, the source material isn’t exactly clear. (You’d think an omnipotent being could do better.)

    “True Christian” can mean almost anything.

  115. 115.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Elizabelle:

    Someone told me one time that the Orthodox churches basically have a two-track system: parish priests and leadership. The parish priests can get married and have kids, but the leadership (bishops etc) have to be unmarried. I think the rationale is so the leadership doesn’t make decisions in favor if their own families, use the church’s funds to enrich themselves, etc.

    No idea if something like that would work for the RCC, but I know that being a priest is kind of like working for IBM — the church can and will move you wherever they want, whenever they want, and there’s not much you can do about it. It might be tough to have a family under those circumstances.

  121. 121.

    Jay C

    @Amir Khalid:

    Re: “Haj”: I always thought the different spellings were/are due to Arabic being a notably difficult language to accurately transliterate: a lot of its letters/sounds don’t neatly correspond to other languages and/or alphabets, thus I’ve seen the pilgrimage called “haj” “hajj” or “hadj” depending on the transliteration norms: but all meaning the same thing.

  122. 122.

    Elizabelle

    @The Raven on the Hill: I actually read your comment, and it was not overly snarky!

    You got me thinking about the “lesser of two evils”, and, for me, it’s not that at all. Applauding someone genuinely concerned about climate change and economic inequality, and if we think we have immigration and migration problems now, let those unaddressed problems get more of a foothold.

    Gonna hunt down a cartoon treatment of how drought led to instability in Syria (which took “expert observers” by surprise). I think we’re going to see more of that.

  123. 123.

    Elizabelle

    @Amir Khalid: Late to this topic, but I am so sad to hear of the Hajj deaths. That’s nearing a thousand, after the crane collapse in Mecca a week or two ago.

    LA Times had a roundup; says this was worst death toll in a “generation.” (Worst was 1,400 dead in a tunnel collapse in the 1990s.)

    What a tragedy, and what a logistical problem. Time to think out of the box, valley, tunnel, calendar.

    Was it you who said Mohammed would be good with changing ritual a bit? Hate when religions get so rigid.

  124. 124.

    The Other Bob

    All those conservative idiots ignore that Jesus guy, why does anyone think they will pay attention to the Pope?

  125. 125.

    RaflW

    @Elizabelle:

    It’s all about politics and the base and apparently the Democratic base is as out there and extreme as the GOP one.

    Tweety and most of the rest of these bozos are incapable of holding any other thought than “both sides do it.” Their brains atrophied quite some time ago, and for some damn reason they still get attention.

    Totally floors me that anyone cares what comes out of the TV. Surely we still know it’s called the idiot box for a reason.

  126. 126.

    redshirt

    @Elizabelle:

    What a tragedy, and what a logistical problem. Time to think out of the box, valley, tunnel, calendar.

    Was it you who said Mohammed would be good with changing ritual a bit? Hate when religions get so rigid.

    You can’t change the location or date, but means of visitor management I’m sure can be improved.

  127. 127.

    RaflW

    @Elizabelle:

    Can’t we work with him on the issues he’s good on?

    I hope so!

    I’ve been doing organizing work for many years, often in the Unitarian Universalist context. It took a while to bring a number of my UU fellows along on some issues – it has meant sometimes we do anti-poverty work, or voter participation, or any number of other justice projects with other religious folks with different views on abortion, LGBT issues, etc.

    As long as we all park our other positions at the door and work together on climate, economic justice, what have you, we can in fact make common cause, and sometimes even build relationships that transcend the so called “intractable” issues.

  133. 133.

    Elizabelle

    @Kathleen: Have not yet tired of Briscoe. And it’s fun to figure out what actual events inspired the scripts.

    Plus: no whingeing about Republicans. I feel like we hear too much about Republicans.

  134. 134.

    Elizabelle

    @Sad_Dem: re the dreadful Mr. Gosar:

    If Pope Francis wants to devote his life to fighting climate change, Gosar said, he should do so in his personal time — not as pope. “To promote questionable science as Catholic dogma is ridiculous,” he said.

    Gosar most recently pushed for the impeachment of EPA chief Gina McCarthy.

    I hope he loses his seat in 2016. Cannot believe he’s not an embarrassment to his constituents.

  135. 135.

    qwerty42

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    Someone told me one time that the Orthodox churches basically have a two-track system: parish priests and leadership. The parish priests can get married and have kids, but the leadership (bishops etc) have to be unmarried. I think the rationale is so the leadership doesn’t make decisions in favor if their own families, use the church’s funds to enrich themselves, etc.

    I believe this is true, and probably for these reasons. I also believe the Orthodox priest must be married before he takes his vows. Actually, there are several rites within the Catholic church, we are just familiar with the RC. I believe one or two have married clergy; all have ancient roots in the Middle East.

  137. 137.

    Elizabelle

    @Sad_Dem: Yuck. I’ve driven through a bit of the district, and it’s gorgeous.

    Although: there have to be a lot of constituents who’d be embarrassed at how Gosar treated the Pope, who’s a benign presence.

    Hope the guy could be defeated, by someone better. Did see Gosar was endorsed by Palin, Arpaiao and the other tough cop whose name escapes me suddenly. (Paul Babeau?) Anyway, a wingnut trifecta.

    Have to get the non wingnuts out to vote.

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