Another good month for JORBS, plus 211K on payrolls for November, plus 35K upward revisions to September and October, unemployment rate remains at 5.0%, labor force participation rate unchanged at 62.5%, black unemployment at 9.4% (down from 11.0% this time last year), the U-6 at 9.9%.
68 straight months of JORBS from President Malcolm The Wiz Live Shabazz X Mo Dee, which means we should probably expunge him from the record books and just pretend the economy responded positively to Sen. John McCain and eight years of anticipation of the incoming Trump/Cruz administration.
Good stuff, but good enough for a Fed rate hike? Markets seem inclined to believe one is coming.
Open thread.
rikyrah
Why the latest Obamacare repeal vote was worse than the others
12/04/15 08:00 AM
By Steve Benen
It’s not exactly a secret that when congressional Republicans vote to repeal all or part of the Affordable Care Act – as they’ve done dozens upon dozens of times – it’s not because they intend to succeed. On the contrary, they already know these bills are doomed to fail, at least so long as President Obama is in the White House, blocking any GOP effort to take Americans’ health benefits away.
And yet, the Senate Republican majority invested months of effort in yet another “Obamacare” repeal measure, culminating in a close vote last night.
The Senate narrowly passed a bill Thursday that would repeal key pieces of the Affordable Care Act and strip federal funding of Planned Parenthood for one year.
The bill, which only needed 51 votes to pass because it was being considered using a procedure allowing it to bypass typical Senate procedures which require 60 votes to advance a piece of legislation, passed 52-47.
The final roll call is online here. Note that two Senate Republicans – Maine’s Susan Collins and Illinois’ Mark Kirk – broke ranks and opposed the repeal bill. No Democrats voted for it.
The first instinct is always to evaluate legislation on the merits, and in this case, the Republican repeal package is simply indefensible. It would increase the ranks of the uninsured by at 22 million people over the next three years, while killing Medicaid expansion, scrapping subsidies to working families, and even defunding Planned Parenthood for reasons GOP lawmakers still can’t explain with any coherence.
But in this case, it’s best not to focus too heavily on the policy details because, as Republicans freely admit, this entire legislative endeavor, months in the making, was nothing but political theater – an elaborate sham.
The first part of the charade has to do with preventing a government shutdown. By orchestrating this drama, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) believed he can send a repeal bill to the White House, watch it get vetoed, and then pursue a “clean” – or at least, “cleaner” – spending package next week before current federal funding expires, effectively telling his members, “Well, we gave it our best shot.”
The second part of this gambit is giving the party’s rabid base a symbolic victory. Republicans have somehow convinced themselves that right-wing activists will be impressed by Congress going through the motions and forcing the president to veto a dumb repeal bill that has no real-world implications whatsoever.
But it’s the final part the charade that’s the most interesting angle.
This bill was able to pass the Senate thanks to a legislative tactic known as the “budget reconciliation” process, which allows lawmakers to pass budget measures by majority rule – no filibusters allowed. It’s why Democrats weren’t able to block last night’s vote.
The GOP majority knows the president will veto any repeal measure, but this isn’t about now; it’s about 2017, when Republicans expect to see complete, far-right control over the House, Senate, and White House. In other words, last night’s vote was a dry-run – a proof-of-concept dress rehearsal – for when Republicans are really able to start taking families’ health care benefits away.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/why-the-latest-obamacare-repeal-vote-was-worse-the-others
rikyrah
That Barack Obama is just ruining the economy.
rikyrah
Without EVER Presenting an alternative
………………….
The Phony Obamacare Repeal
The GOP will finally pass a bill repealing Obamacare. It will be a charade.
By Jim Newell
The meticulously plotted Republican plan to repeal the Affordable Care Act and have that repeal vetoed by President Obama culminates this week. The House of Representatives has voted to eliminate the law dozens of times over the last few Congresses, but either Democratic control of the Senate or Democrats’ use of the filibuster has kept the repeal from going any further. So after last year’s midterm elections, in which the GOP gained control of the Senate, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell agreed to use the reconciliation process to get the repeal over the finish line. (Reconciliation is the one-off parliamentary maneuver that only requires a 51-vote majority.) After an expected marathon of votes on dumb amendments heading into Thursday, the bill should pass, paving the way for Obama to veto the dickens out of it.
Republicans are going through the Kabuki of passing a doomed bill for a number of reasons. Once it became clear that this Congress wasn’t going to use reconciliation to pass anything that could make its way into law, the GOP decided that it might as well burn the reconciliation tool on a messaging bill. The message here is to clarify to Republican voters, ahead of the presidential election, that all they need to eliminate the ghastly scourge of expanded access to medical care is a new, conservative butt in the Oval Office swivel chair. As useless messaging bills go, you could do worse. (Though, it’s worth pointing out that this bill should also send a message to the Democratic base to show up and vote if they want to save the Affordable Care Act.)
This reconciliation process has been carried out as the trial run for an actual ACA repeal after the 2016 elections, as Republican legislators have done reconnaissance on all the procedural traps that might occur for the real deal. By those standards it’s been largely successful. Though the bill will not be a total repeal, it does eliminate much of the law’s core infrastructure, its revenues and its outlays, even if it can’t weed out every last regulation under reconciliation, because some don’t directly pertain to the budget.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/12/congress_to_repeal_obamacare_in_soon_to_be_vetoed_charade.html
benw
@rikyrah: those 68 votes to repeal Obamacare saved the economy!
Feudalism Now!
All I can say is Thank Dog for John Boehner and the Republican House. Those jobs bills helped a lot.
MattF
Yellen has, pretty much, said that the conditions for a rate hike have been met. I’m guessing a small hike, just to gauge what happens in the markets.
OzarkHillbilly
I told you it would be a disaster.
Amir Khalid
Man, that made me shudder.
debbie
Maybe my memory’s faulty, but hasn’t this administration needed to revise previous months’ job numbers upward fairly frequently, while the previous administration was generally revising them downward?
eric
Where are the real jobs numbers? you commies march in lock step with your kenyan leader, never looking past his mockery making. Everyone with any brain knows the real jobs numbers are horrible. people have given up looking for work so they dont count in obummers jiggered numbers. Perhaps all these syrian refugees will count as unemployed and america can wake up and see what Obambi has done to this once great land. silver lining as we circle the drain. Trump/McCarthy.
David Fud
0.25% at the next meeting. Without energy, inflation is starting to pop a bit. So, energy has probably mostly bottomed out except for Iran’s new exports, we have thankfully avoided deflation, and it seems to be time to nudge it up ever so slightly. Going to pop the dollar up a bit more, making the exchange rate slightly better for Americans to take a foreign trip, slightly worse to export goods manufactured here, and slightly more expensive for the rest of the world to buy oil – so expect a very small dip in oil with the Iranian supply coming online. Not bad given where we have been for a long time. Would like to see U-6 lower, but glad to see these numbers finally back to some semblance of normalcy.
NickM
Coach Z! Who likes his ointments topical – most-ly.
dedc79
@eric: That’s a pretty damn good parody. There’s a guy over at National Review’s The Corner who posts (often quite favorably) about the improving jobs numbers, and every time he does, a pack of nut jobs descends on the comment thread and it looks a hell of a lot like what you wrote.
BGinCHI
@eric: Melissa McCarthy would make a great VP.
Unless you mean Charlie McCarthy.
Germy
Former SNL writer/cast member and current Senator Al Franken has a new book in the works. According to The Hollywood Reporter, Franken has signed a book deal with Hachette’s imprint Twelve to pen an untitled memoir that will cover his career from SNL to his current job in the US Senate. The memoir will hit bookstores sometime in 2017
Feathers
Jeb! ran a fairly ugly Islamaphobic ad last night in Boston/NH – during THE WIZ LIVE. If he only had a brain Shook my head. It may have been outside expenditures, but it was entirely Jeb! focused.
There was also a cringe inducing ad for an upcoming touring production of The Wizard of Oz, which very pointedly only featured very white people among the happy customers. It really stood out because there were so many ads focused for the presumably large black audience.
As to the show – I basically had it on while paying bills. Kept wanting to be able to control the camera and go all Busby Berkeley. Don’t think the gimickiness of Live! outweighs the value of closeups and proper editing. Old enough to have seen the original movie in the theater. Wizard of Oz really is a kid’s show in the best sense. I think my child self (yet to watch all the Hollywood musicals and mainline The Red Shoes and Tales of Hoffman) would have preferred this one.
dr. bloor
@BGinCHI:
No way Trump picks someone smarter than he is.
BGinCHI
@dr. bloor: lol.
Or less wooden-hearted.
benw
@dr. bloor: if Trump doesn’t have a The Apprentice style reality show to pick his Veep, it’ll be a yuuge disappointment. Who wouldn’t tune in every week to see Donald turn to a sniveling contestant and bark: “Youse off the ticket!”?
dr. bloor
@benw: I hear Gary Busey’s dance card is wide open these days.
Wordpress Developers
Folks, gonna try to activate a plugin that might cause a few site burps. If you have issues, feel free mention them here, I’ll be watching. In order to fix something, the theme maker recommended that I do this, so here we go….
guachi
Looking at the CNN poll released today I noticed something interesting.
In the previous four polls dating back to early September the three non-politicians (Trump, Carson, Fiorina) combined for 54, 53, 53, and 53 percent of the total. If Carson and Fiorina continue to fade I think it only benefits Trump, especially if a number of actual politicians stay in the race.
benw
@dr. bloor: Brett Michael’s, too.
Alain the site fixer
Oh and I changed my nym. I’m not a WordPress Developer, technically.
Roger Moore
@WordPress Developers:
Assuming there’s still a here and a way to post effectively. We’ve seen what “small hiccups” look like.
BGinCHI
@Alain the site fixer: I feel lied to.
How do I know any of this is real??
MattF
@BGinCHI: If you dream it every night, it’s not real.
catclub
Did you say something about jobs?
It is at business-centric Bloomberg.
dr. bloor
@BGinCHI:
Did you take the red pill or the blue pill this morning?
ThresherK
NPR is pissing all over itself (again). The host of On Point is asking, “When did prayer become controversial?” No, dumbass: We’re sick of empty gestures.
My wife and I recently saw “A Wonderful Life”, a musical based on the movie. It’s actually one of the instances where adding music to a complete story does not detract from the whole.
I’m wondering how many of these Republicans would offer their prayers for George Bailey and then not even toss a couple dollars in the wheelbarrow. Because repaying that $8000 his drunked old fool of an uncle misplaced doesn’t solve all his problems, but fck, it takes care of the biggest one.
The Thin Black Duke
@BGinCHI: Who are you?
BGinCHI
@dr. bloor: Shit, I took both.
No wonder.
BGinCHI
@ThresherK: The host of On Point is a gigantic douche, if it’s the regular dude.
It’s the only NPR show to which I have written a long, scathing email about one of their shows.
He reminds me of a stupider Charlie Rose.
The Thin Black Duke
@ThresherK: Uh, unless I’m wrong, the uncle didn’t “misplace” the money; it was stolen by Mr. Potter.
debbie
@ThresherK:
Not to mention all the gratitude shown for the small things George had done for them years ago. Now it’s all “What are you going to do for me now?”
ThresherK
@The Thin Black Duke: Well, he leaves it in a newspaper which he placed on Mr. Potter’s lap, and Mr. Potter discovers it and doesn’t lift a finger to return it.
I don’t know what that legally constitutes. At a different staging of “A Wonderful Life”, the crowd hissed the Mr. Potter actor at curtain call, because it was the proper thing to do. Then that guy gave the envelope of money back to the performer playing Uncle Billy. That’s a moment which ought to be in this show every time.
On Point is the program for which the term PublicRadioFail was coind. They’re forever bringing on talking point-spewing jagoffs with breath control, then having no liberal to do anything like fact-checking.
debbie
@The Thin Black Duke:
He did misplace it as in forgetting it was inside that newspaper tossed at Potter; Potter being the opportunistic lice he was, just took advantage of the opportunity.
(Yeah, I’ve watched this movie countless times…)
The Thin Black Duke
@ThresherK: @debbie: Fair enough. George’s uncle wasn’t stupid but he was careless.
dr. bloor
@ThresherK:
Tom Ashbrook is one of the more obtuse people on the planet. If he and Robin Young had a love child, it would get lost on its way through the birth canal.
Davebo
@Alain the site fixer: What really is a “WordPress Developer”? Or a Joomla developer? You’re a PHP/MYSQL developer right?
rikyrah
Ok, I’m putting on my tinfoil hat, folks. I don’t routinely like to blame the woman, but, in the case of the San Bernadino killing…
He went overseas to Saudi Arabia to find her.
Saudi Arabia.
You know how I feel about the home of the funding of Wahhabbi -‘Death to the West’ brand of Islam.
The guy comes from a family who has a brother who is a decorated veteran.
I know two brothers can be different, but, you know…
I think his wife turned him out.
ordinarily, I wouldn’t think like this. But, we’ve been joking too much about the ISIS social media presence, and the way they look to recruit online. And, her being from Saudi Arabia. And, the fact that he couldn’t find a girl here in America. He wasn’t living in Idaho, he lived in California – plenty of Arabs there. The power of the ‘ nectar’…we know it..
Plus….I’m trying to wrap my mind around a woman who would leave a six-month old child to go shoot up people. I hate being ‘blame the woman’, but in this case, I’m suspicious.
This reminds me of that girl from Mississippi who was arrested going with her new hubby to join ISIS…
Just thinking with the tinfoil hat on.
Kay
It’s actually funnier when it’s straight reporting.
RSR
Sorry, this economic news is barely decent. Not enough is being done to get wages up across the board and create jobs for workers who have dropped out of actively seeking employment.
@atrios hit this a bunch on twitter, as well as his baby blue blog: http://www.eschatonblog.com/2015/12/jobs.html
Atrios @Atrios 2h2 hours ago
i don’t think a small rate hike will destroy the economy, but it does signal that the Fed will never allow wage growth again
Atrios @Atrios 2h2 hours ago
we want more jobs and growth! oh shit, jobs and growth! abort! abort!
Economic Policy Institute posted a bunch on twitter as well: https://twitter.com/EconomicPolicy
Wage growth is still well below target when it comes to raising interest rates. http://on.epi.org/1XNoxDz
The Golux
@dr. bloor:
Trump/Nuge 2016!!! It’ll be youuuuuuuuuuuuge!!!!
schrodinger's cat
@rikyrah: She was originally from Pakistan, living in Saudi Arabia. Why d we not single photo of her yet? Yes I think she is the key to this puzzle.
Brachiator
@ThresherK:
It’s noteworthy that in the movie, Potter is never punished for his bad dealings, but this “loose end” does not ruin the movie at all.
Germy
I saw this comment on another blog and I have to agree:
slag
@ThresherK: Gotta be honest. I’m not a big fan of prayer, at least in its more public form. For instance, the National Prayer Breakfast in DC every year serves as yet another reminder to me that we’ll never live in a civilized society. Prayer is a bummer.
amk
@Germy:
you left out dumbya double regime.
schrodinger's cat
@slag: I don’t mind the prayer, its the sanctimonious righteousness that some true believers project that I find annoying.
D58826
@rikyrah: There were a number of Chechnyan female suicide bombers who left small children. It would be a first here though
dedc79
Brett Favre and Mark Brunell – class acts all around
The Thin Black Duke
@Brachiator: Exactly. As a matter of fact, this small but important detail (one of many) further enhances the film’s status as a masterpiece; it’s a non-Hollywood moment of reality in a movie made in Hollywood.
ThresherK
@Brachiator: Yeah. The B&L is still barely above water, George’s car is still crashed into that tree.
This bit I mentioned was just an excellent piece of stagery at the curtain call, and now I look for it every time I see the show.
The show has some great songs to recommend it, and the best are very, very dark. It does not paper over the pain inherent in the source material.
Germy
@Brachiator:
He gets his punishment in the SNL skit. Gets the crap beat out of him by Jimmy Stewart and the rest of his gang.
Germy
Why does http://deleted keep appearing in my “website” field (under name and email)?
Botsplainer
@rikyrah:
I’m thinking that this is plain old-fashioned “hidden grudge” followed by radicalization.
This is an excellent article about Howard Unruh, a mass killer who snapped on September 6, 1949.
Keep in mind that this article clearly exposits the action in detail, and was submitted the next day, bearing quotes from multiple witnesses. There are no opinions, no missing facts, the sources are named, and there is no “some say”, “both sides”, “wider debate” bullshit. Just solid writing and some chilling statements from the shooter, who was actually interviewed by another reporter from Camden by phone as he exchanged fire with the police.
The piece earned a Pulitzer, and shows just how low journalism has plummeted.
The quality of that reporting makes me angry. I just had an exchange with a friend in the media about it. He had this to say:
He followed with this:
Anyhow, getting back to the subject at hand, I think the base answer on most of these killers is “I don’t know”.
Alain the site fixer
Germy, I’ve posted an answer to your question! In short, your Balloon Juice cookie has it in it. Delete it, when you try to comment again, put in your name and email as usual, then make sure nothing is in your website info in case your browser saved that info as auto-complete
Jeffro
@guachi: There are only four candidates in the GOP race…five if we generously count Christie, six if we very, very generously count in Jeb?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/polltracker/donald-trump-top-cnn-poll
Gonna be brutal, watching Trump, Cruz, and Rubio knock each other around all spring.
Steeplejack
@Germy:
I don’t know how it got there, but FYWP remembers those fields for the next time you comment (unless you have cookies turned off, I believe). My advice is to blank that field, then enter a comment. That should clear it out. There is a small possibility that your comment will go to moderation; I don’t know whether FYWP reacts to changes in that field as it does to the nym and e-mail fields.
P.S. I see that Alain has replied, but I’m leaving this as possible clarification.
Jeffro
@Amir Khalid: Amen.
Shortly to be followed by the Cruz/(vacancy) administration. Keep a food taster handy at all times, Donald!
Germy
@Alain the site fixer: thank you
@Steeplejack: And thank you too.
The site is quick and zippy and looks clean.
Brachiator
Good jobs report. More jobs, good. More jobs and higher wages, would be better. And we are still miles away from a healthy economy. This does not detract from what has been accomplished, but we still have a long way to go. There is even the possibility that the country is set for a long term decline which will be hard for any government to deal with, but that’s a whole ‘nuther problem.
shortstop
@BGinCHI: Herb at Broadway and Balmoral, my friend. OMG, yes.
Lamh36
Speaking of the Wiz, did u watch Zander?
I absolutely loved it
Hell I woke up this morning with He’s The Wiz running thru head!
Amber Riley did the damn thing!
https://youtu.be/hzbMGOsHsQo
Amir Khalid
@schrodinger’s cat:
@rikyrah:
So far, we know absolutely nothing about Tashfeen Malik at this stage, including whether she had any radical inclinations or led her husband that way. A lack of photographs of her is not entirely surprising, considering what people are like about feminine modesty in Saudi Arabia. (Not, of course, that I endorse that attitude.) Nor should it be regarded as suspicious in itself that she was from Pakistan, like her husband’s family, and used to live in Saudi Arabia. The same is true, after all, of Hillary Clinton’s aide, the very American Huma Abedin.
Incidentally, some may have noted that the men in Syed Rizwan Farook’s family all have the first name Syed. Syed/Said/Sayeed (among other variations) is actually more a title than a name. Families who claim descent from Prophet Muhammad use it before a boy’s given name. (The equivalent girl’s title — well, that most common in Malaysia — is Sharifah.)
slag
@schrodinger’s cat: We all have our cultural bugaboos.
For most Republicans, it’s gay people, women, anyone of color (including gay people and women), and people who refuse to say “Merry Christmas”.
For me, it’s religious extremists, conspiracy theorists, people who paint their faces at sporting events, and Hummer drivers.
Of course, I have no interest in legislating away my bugaboos while “small government” Republicans are all over that. Oh irony, must we keep on like this?
Betty Cracker
@Botsplainer: Re: the Kardashians — my teenager and I share an Apple account (funded by me, of course), and I am very generous as far as app and music purchases go. But the other day, I received notice of an in-app purchase for a Kardashian grift, and I told the kid that if I ever see evidence that she’s forwarded a nickel of my hard-earned money to that worthless pack of vacuous parasites, I’ll change all the passwords, fling her MacBook into the swamp and stomp her iPhone into plastic shards. I think she got the message: I am old.
dedc79
@Amir Khalid: Reserving judgment (as we all should) until we have more info, but this certainly doesn’t look good:
rikyrah
PHUCK.OUTTA.HERE.
Their hands weren’t tied with John Crawford and Tamir Rice.
………………
Ohio community lives in fear as rifle-toting white man stalks black neighborhoods with impunity
04 DEC 2015 AT 09:30 ET
A 25-year-old white man got into an altercation with the black owner of a barbershop on Thursday who objected to him stalking predominantly black neighborhoods carrying a rifle slung across his back, reports Cleveland.com.
Saying he has a right under Ohio’s open carry laws to parade about town carrying his gun, Daniel Kovacevic, 25, has been stopped by police multiple times — includingnear the University of Akron — but police say the state’s gun laws have tied their hands despite citizen complaints.
Kovacevic’s actions have roiled the black community in a state where Tamir Rice and John Crawford were recently shot by police while holding toy weapons.
On Thursday, police were called to break up a confrontation between Kovacevic and local barbershop owner Deone Slater who did not want the man with his rifle hanging out in front of his shop.
“He was a threat to my community,” Slater said. “If I can prevent him from shooting up the city, I would. I won’t condone it. Somebody’s got to stand up.”
Slater said he was yelling profanities at Kovacevic when police arrived, and that Kovacevic said little during the confrontation other than to ask him if he was a Christian.
“I told him to take his guns off. I told him let me have five or 10 minutes with him without his weapons,” Slater said before adding that the police seemed more concerned with him than the man carrying the gun, and that he believes race plays a part in it.
“They (police) were more concerned about me than him, as if I were the threat,” Slater explained. “If it were me with a gun, they would have shut the whole block down.”
“He’s a threat to me and my people. He’s a threat to me.”
Police have been monitoring Kovacevic for days after receiving calls from security at University of Akron that he was seen near the school carrying his rifle.
Social media has been up in arms over Kovacevic after his picture was posted to Twitter (see below) when he was seen near one of Akron’s predominately black high schools.
According to police there is nothing they can do, saying they can ask the open carrier who they are, what they are doing and why they are there — however gun carriers are not required by law to respond.
http://www.cleveland.com/akron/index.ssf/2015/12/akron_barber_shop_owner_confro.html#incart_m-rpt-1
Matt McIrvin
@Feathers: The movie of The Wiz is one of those things that flopped when it first came out but got a cult following later.
I never saw the original stage show, which was a big hit, but my impression is that underneath the wild costumes and songs and such it was actually a pretty straight adaptation of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (the book), whereas the movie’s Joel Schumacher script definitely wasn’t. Haven’t seen the TV show yet.
Sherparick
Finally, we have found someone who can bring Conservative Muslim Haters and Anti-gun Liberals together. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/david-chesley-sandy-hook-truther
This is the kind of guy who gives my profession the name it deserves at times. If I was the family and CAIR, I would tell Mr. Chesley to take a long walk on a very short pier as he has not done them any good.
Botsplainer
@Betty Cracker:
My thing about the Kardashians is that at some point 5-10 years ago (I refuse to do a Kardashian search and give them so much as a single click), some jerk executive thought it would be a good idea to start selling them to the public non-stop. In other words, it wasn’t organic, it was sold. And that which is sold can be unsold – look at what happened to the cults of Honey Boo Boo and the Duggars once the organic news overshadowed their sold fame. Right now, Mama June would struggle to be invited to attend a ribbon-cutting at a “buy here, pay here” used car lot, and the Duggars are heading rapidly down that path as well.
Germy
Guardian UK: Uruguay makes dramatic shift to nearly 95% electricity from clean energy – In less than 10 years the country has slashed its carbon footprint and lowered electricity costs, without government subsidies. Delegates at the Paris summit can learn much from its success
MattF
This is why Rubio has a problem. He’s already roused suspicion with his futile attempt to go ‘moderate’ on immigration. If he appears to move so much as a micron away from the edge of cliff on any other issue, the thought police won’t trust him, and they’ll opt for someone else.
Amir Khalid
@dedc79:
So it could be — again, subject to further information — that Tashfeen led Rizwan into radicalism, and not the other way around. But the NBC story cites unnamed sources in law enforcement rather than the FBI or the San Bernadino police. So that news must await official confirmation.
schrodinger's cat
@Amir Khalid: I have known some Indian families (Hindu and Sikh) who worked in Saudi Arabia as doctors, they sent their kids to the US schools and got out SA after they made their bucks.
MattF
@Amir Khalid:Folie à deux.
scav
@shortstop:
Um, if that’s a warning, could you be a little more specific? Should I be avoiding a man or a plantlife at that intersection between me and my Chinese grocery store. I can totally sneak down the alleys if necessary, but the store must be accessible.
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: I was suspecting that all along.
Brachiator
@ThresherK:
This is one of my favorite films. I’m not sure that I am ready to see a musical version of it (although I take you at your word that it is great). A local TV station used to regularly run “classic” movies, but for some reason I would deliberately skip them, dismissing them just as “old, overhyped stuff.” But when I finally saw it, wham! Great stuff.
I also later recall an LA Times TV critic furiously slam the movie. He particularly thought that the “alternate reality” depiction of Mary as an old maid was particularly despicable, and that the movie obviously hated women since it depicted her life as utterly meaningless in the absence of her marriage. This was one of the most spectacularly stupid bits of criticism that I have ever read. I also recall this critic in another review pretty much declaring that he was a morally superior person because he was a vegetarian.
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: Anyway, Reuters is saying she’d lived in Saudi Arabia most of her life. Yet again, the Saudi connection. All these people pissing their pants about Syrian refugees, I’d say ban all entry to the US from Saudi Arabia. That would fix things up right quick, but no politician will ever suggest it.
MattF
@Amir Khalid: I know that trying to rationalize crazy people’s motives is futile, but why would the religious fanatic agree to go shoot up an office party?
schrodinger's cat
Continuation of my earlier comment:
I am not saying that there is anything suspicious about the mere fact of having lived in the SA. What is curious is that almost no info has come out about Ms. Malik.
My friend from India who is an Ob-Gyn found SA suffocating, the not driving and other restrictions were too much for her, they lasted in SA less than 2 years.
Amir Khalid
@MattF:
I remember that episode of The X-Files. Mulder said a very romantic thing: he called Scully his one in five billion.
Davebo
@Betty Cracker:
Come on Betty. It’s worth it to you to be able to track the teen with FindMyIphone 24/7!
schrodinger's cat
@Brachiator:
Any chance the critic is Jain?
shortstop
@scav: ooooh, I love that grocery. You’re in Anderland now (or still)? Why did I think you were in Hyde Park? Prolly because you seem like you’d pal around with other lib terrists.
It’s a restaurant, and lest everyone think I’m the shallowest person who ever posted here, I’ll just say that the past few months have been a maelstrom of family health issue-related trauma. I’ve been scrambling to keep up with work while caregiving, and I’m uncharacteristically emotionally flattened by world events. So something as simple as a delicious and peaceful meal is creating untold joy. Anyway, check this place out, scavvie. It won’t disappoint.
Ken
@ThresherK:
Arguably least by the time of Micah and Isaiah. Definitely by the time of James. That guy Jesus is also on record as saying something about it, as did other religious leaders around that time.
Prayer is fine, but you need to back it up with action.
FlipYrWhig
@Brachiator:
Well… It IS the case that in the film the great tragedy of there being no George Bailey for Mary is that she’s a childless, nervous biddy who works at the library and doesn’t pluck her eyebrows.
Amir Khalid
@Gin & Tonic:
No politician would suggest it? Are you sure? It would be an extremely stupid thing to do, if you’ll excuse my bluntness. Many a Republican politician (and not a few Democrats, as well) would happily take up such a suggestion.
@Gin & Tonic: Most of her life? It’s also been reported that she went to college in Pakistan. That suggested to me that she went to SA to work after graduation.
shortstop
@Gin & Tonic: Not that I’m suggesting we ban all persons from any country, but I admit that when the SA connection came out, I wondered how the GOP would reconcile our very special friendship with this latest event, should this turn out to be religiously motivated.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
I mentioned in a post elsewhere on the sad decimation of the LA Times, that among the more than 80 newsroom staff let go were all of the obituary writers. I respect these people tremendously, and they perform an essential public service by helping to put the life of significant people into perspective.
But even with this terrible staff elimination and the death of newspapers and old media, I still shudder to think that one day someone will have to post an obituary for any of the Kardashians as people of note.
shortstop
@Amir Khalid: I think it’s more likely that we’ll see her Pakistani history discussed at nauseating length while her connections to SA are publicly ignored.
Brachiator
@schrodinger’s cat:
No. The critic could not use religion or philosophical principles as an excuse.
MattF
@Brachiator: I read that the first time as a Kardashian ‘gift’ and wondered if there’s an official Kardashian registry.
scav
@shortstop: Still, entirely still. I think BGinCHI was to the west of me before he made his giant leap to the noonday twilight. So, is that what replaced the French restaurant? I’ll add it to the investigate list, although Mei Shung has been such an anchor for me.
Peale
@MattF: Sadly, no. Khloe found out her finance was cheating on her while she’s carrying his child and so the wedding is off.
Not that I pay attention to these things. But I believe Bill Moyers had an essay on it this week.
Amir Khalid
@shortstop:
Nothing so far reported tells us whether Tashfeen Malik became radicalised while living in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, or San Bernadino.
gene108
@Amir Khalid:
Interesting tid-bit. I worked with three Indian brothers, who all had the first name Syed, different middle name and same last name.
Always wondered what precipitated that sort of naming convention.
Germy
@Brachiator: They laid off the obituary writers in the new spirit of do-it-yourselfism at newspapers. The family writes the obit, emails it with a jpeg of the deceased, and it runs for a few days in the print edition; the web edition allows comments “Roy was a great fellow” etc.
I get the feeling the newspapers really don’t want to pay anyone anymore. Just the smallest number of employees possible, and unpaid readers blogging, proofreading and copyediting. Profit?
trollhattan
@rikyrah:
You might be on target here. It’s still early but that’s how the investigation is pivoting.
They clearly had plans beyond the work gathering, I wonder if that wasn’t ad hoc and not an original target.
Looking at the victim list, ten were coworkers. Can you imagine going back to work there? Horrible.
Germy
David Schwimmer plays Robert Kardashian in the latest O.J. American Crime Story.
MattF
@gene108: Ah. That explains the confusion a day or so ago when some over-eager journalist found two Syed Farooks and hounded the wrong one.
shortstop
@Amir Khalid: I am making zero assumptions of my own, honest! My comments were simply directed to how the American right wing will be discussing this. The elected GOP is highly suspicious of certain majority-Muslim countries while avoiding all discussion of possible radical activity in the land of Saud.
On another matter, I wonder if you might advise me. If a person had about a 10-hour layover in KL, would she have time to grab a cab and do a little city sightseeing? Thanks in advance!
scav
@gene108: Aren’t there still large Catholic families where all the girls are named Mary and the boys Joseph? We had two on the same block when I was especially wee — only the very yougest of one was ever actually called Mary Agnes, all the rest just skipped to their second name.
ETA: Or were the boys all John? They never went by it, so it didn’t really matter. Joseph just seems more balenced with Mary somehow.
rdldot
@rikyrah: I join you in the tinfoil hat thing because that’s what I’ve been thinking too. I don’t think this is a case of dutiful wife going along. I think she turned him. But we will likely never know.
Amir Khalid
@MattF:
I read about that too. As it happened, it was one of Rizwan’s brothers.
ThresherK
@FlipYrWhig: Given that she’s living in upstate New York, through the Depression, what are the chances she’s going to go away to the Big Apple, like Violet always was trying to do?
The margin of this movie is all about regularities, things which are the greater likelihoods.
George is 40 years old and acts like it. Hell knows he grew up a lot quicker than I did. He was “born older” than his brother, and also because at midcentury in smalltown America, forty is the new forty, not thirty, or anything young and hip.
Mr. Potter in 1945 is no incredible tycoon, but merely a geographical quirk who is running an old-generation petty fiefdom. There is a reason that this movie takes place in upstate New York, rather than California, or closer to the burgeoning factories of the midwest. It’s for all to see in that on little scene with Potter and his accountant, “One of these days this bright young man will be asking George Bailey for a job!”
D58826
@Amir Khalid: There is a 28 page section from the 9/11 commission report that is still classified. It deals with the SA connection both before and after 9/11. Both Bush and now Obama have fought to keep the document a secret. Again making an assumption but if the report found that SA was our most valuable ally around that time I suspect the report would be hanging from the Status of Liberty’s torch. The fact that the US government is fighting so hard to keep it a secret makes one very suspicious.
Germy
@FlipYrWhig:
And the local tavern in the Georgeless town allows a (gulp!) black man to play boogie-woogie piano…
shortstop
@scav: He’s moved? To where? I am out of it…er, not for the first or last time.
That’s funny; if you’ve been there a while, we were probably neighbors at one time. Been out of the hood for 10 years now but still up there all the time.
Mei Shung is wonderful. This is a bit more spendy, more of a special meal. Treat yourself! Don’t cheat yourself!
shortstop
@trollhattan: I don’t know…they did drop off the baby that morning and rented the SUV several days before with a return date of Wednesday. We’ll have to wait and see.
Amir Khalid
@shortstop:
Ten hours sounds like enough time. But don’t get a taxi. Take the train from the airport direct to KL Sentral. That’s the quickest way to get to the city, and it’s cheaper too
Germy
The Associated Press reports today that GOP presidential hopeful Donald Trump asked a man who was once involved in a major Mafia-linked stock fraud scheme to be a senior business adviser to the Trump real-estate empire.
His name is Felix Sater. You can follow him on Twitter.
AP reports that Sater pleaded guilty in 1998 to one count of racketeering for his role in a $40 million stock fraud scheme involving the Genovese and Bonanno mafia families.
Five years before his financial crime conviction, Sater got a year in prison in 1993 for stabbing a man’s face with a broken margarita glass.
From the AP’s report:
Portions of Trump’s relationship with Felix Sater, a convicted felon and government informant, have been previously known. Trump worked with the company where Sater was an executive, Bayrock Group LLC, after it rented office space from the Trump Organization as early as 2003. Sater’s criminal history was effectively unknown to the public at the time, because a judge kept the relevant court records secret and Sater altered his name. When Sater’s criminal past and Mafia links came to light in 2007, Trump distanced himself from Sater.
But less than three years later, Trump renewed his ties with Sater. Sater presented business cards describing himself as a senior adviser to Donald Trump, and he had an office on the same floor as Trump’s own office in New York’s Trump Tower, The Associated Press learned through interviews and court records. Trump said during an AP interview on Wednesday that he recalled only bare details of Sater.
“Felix Sater, boy, I have to even think about it,” Trump said, referring questions about Sater to his staff. “I’m not that familiar with him.”
According to Trump lawyer Alan Garten, Sater’s role was to prospect for high-end real estate deals for the Trump Organization. The arrangement lasted six months, Garten said.
shortstop
@Amir Khalid: Even better. Many thanks!
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
I mentioned that for some reason, I early on avoided the movie. Then, for odd reasons, for a time I never saw the first part of the movie, showing Bailey as a kid.
One of the scenes that absolutely floors me is this one:
Later, when George and Mary are talking to Sam on the phone, the conversation erupts into passionate kissing, and there is another scene in which George and Mary’s frank eroticism even causes their cop buddy to mutter that he has to go home and see his wife after leaving them. George and Mary have tons of kids because they clearly love to fvck. The contrast is between a young girl whose fervent love and passion is, as the Song of Songs says, as strong as death, and a sad woman who has never known love at all. It has nothing to do with her needing man, or having no validity as a woman unless she is defined by her marriage to George.
FlipYrWhig
@ThresherK: True, without George Bailey _everyone_’s life is either tawdry or miserable or both. But it’s an interesting way to imagine Mary being miserable in Pottersville: she’s hysterical and homely and manless. She could have been represented as miserable in many other ways, the way Mrs. Bailey and Violet are. I don’t think it means that Capra hates women, but the whole film is about the “wonderful life” of small-town domesticity, friendship, mutual obligation and shared duty, and women’s place in that mosaic is narrowly circumscribed.
scav
@shortstop: Temporary (I’m pretty sure) to Oslo (pretty sure,2) — defininately Norway. So his hours have shifted and he should be having entirely too much fun with candles and skiis. And yes, we must have overlapped
D58826
@shortstop: Whatever finally comes out it is going to get very ugly. One mosque has been threatened and another vandalized. We had those clowns with rifles outside a mosque in Dallas BEFORE this all happened. The odds of Obama being able to close GITMO or being able to bring in Syrian refugees probably is now approaching minus infinity. The GOP will scream bloody murder and treason while the democrats will kill themselves looking for thew deepest rabbit holes they can find.
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: Reuters said she’d lived there before going to college.
Peale
@FlipYrWhig: Ummm the great tragedy is that all the boys who Harry Bailey saved in the war were now dead. But I think Mr. Gower had it much worse than Mary. There were those in the movie who took steps up because of George who in the alternative relativity were taken down a few steps on the social scale. So Mary, who has a life full of people, is left alone. Violet who is just a fun woman about town becomes an actual prostitute. The pharmacist becomes a murderer. And everyone’s modest dwellings become slums. I don’t quite get this modern interpretation of the film. But then I don’t think “Baby It’s Cold Outside” is a date rape song, so I guess I’m just naive.
FlipYrWhig
@Brachiator: Clarence says to George about Mary, “You’re not going to like it. She never married. She’s an old maid. She’s closing up the library!” So the love she never experiences is domestic bliss. Maybe that includes erotic passion; the rosebush scene is sexy and so is the phone call. But still the thing that makes their attraction is that it’s in a domestic/marital context. That’s the purpose of Violet Bix, sex kitten: for Capra hers is a mercenary and slightly dangerous sort of sexuality, filled with risk and the possibility of scandal, because it’s not domesticated. YMMV.
Elie
@rikyrah:
I agree. Was speculating to hubby last night about “my” theory on this… Dude got conned (—–whipped) and manipulated is my complete speculation of course… but it makes sense… Turns out today she had made loyalty posts to Isis on FB….
FlipYrWhig
@Peale: The great tragedy _for Mary_, I said. You’re right about the troop transport. I still think Capra should have gone full-on Man in the High Castle: without George there’s no Harry, without Harry the troops die, without the troops the Nazis win.
Brachiator
@Germy:
There is less and less profit to be wrung out of newspapers. They are desperately trying to survive, but foolishly gutting some of what makes them essential. Their business model has been undercut by the loss of display and classified advertising, by the rise of the Internet, and by people’s preference for entertainment over information.
The LA Times newsroom has been cut from around 1200 people to 450. And it costs about $75 million just to run a newsroom, with money set aside to fight lawsuits if news coverage gets too hot. Conversely, there has been no growth in the news industry since 2007, and there are fewer profits for anyone.
There is a fantasy running around that turning newspapers into non-profit organizations might save them, and in LA rich guy Eli Broad has been urged to try to buy the paper and save it. But the ability of any newspaper to remain viable is being undercut by changes in media and technology. Neither greed nor profit is the problem.
Lord Baldrick
@scav: Jackpot. An old friend from New Brunswick had seven brothers, all named Joseph (as was he). Middle names were used instead of first names.
Calouste
@gene108: There was a German princely family (I forgot the name) that named all the boys Heinrich and numbered them in birth order. So say Heinrich I would be the father of Heinrich II, III and IV, and Heinrich II would be the father of Heinrich V, VIII, and XII, and the uncle of Heinrich VI, VII, IX, X, and XI etc. They reset the count every century or so to keep from getting completely out of hand. I was wondering whether they gave everyone nicknames or just referred to them by number.
tazj
@MattF: I don’t know, of course, but I think it was a combination of some hidden grudge as others have said and the place just made a good soft target for them. Apparently, a Jewish co-worker, used to get into religious discussions with him. However, the co-worker’s wife said she never thought the discussions were heated or acrimonious and she didn’t worry about it. Maybe, he just hid his true feelings. Terribly sad listening to other co-workers saying how they considered him their friend and how he repaid that friendship.
I listened to the War Nerd’s podcast after the Paris attacks and they talked about -and this truly horrible, that the easiest way to inflict the most damage is to fire on people in an enclosed space. He certainly knew the area.
I find myself having more than the usual amount of loathing and disdain for these people. The male nurse who trained me for my job as a nurse at the Pediatric hospital were I worked was a Muslim immigrant from the West Bank. He didn’t always agree with everything the U.S. government did then(this was during the Persian Gulf War). However, he took the time to explain how difficult things would actually be for people living there. Why not be an advocate for people of the Islamic faith here? I know that it’s simplistic thinking on my part and he probably had some mental health issues as well.. Discrimination against Muslims is actually also worse now.
On a much lighter note, I really enjoyed The Wiz last night. I remember singing music form The Wiz in middle school chorus.
Brachiator mentioned the depiction of Mary in “It’s a Wonderful Life”. I don’t really like it either, but me and my sisters just really laugh at it. “You’re not going to like it George, she’s an old maid!”
Germy
@Brachiator:
Very true. I remember when opening a Sunday paper was fun. In addition to news and editorials there were book reviews, film reviews, household features, personal essays, fascinating interviews and of course the funnies.
Slashing budgets and laying off investigative reporters makes lawsuits less likely. Maybe that’s the business plan?
trollhattan
@shortstop:
Worst renters ever. I wonder whether they got the optional insurance coverage?
Botsplainer
@scav:
There was an old Leb of my grandparents’ generation named George George George. His father was George George George as well.
I also knew a Simon Simon.
Amir Khalid
@Calouste:
I know of one such German family based in London. (You can probably guess who I’m referring to.) The family members all have three or four middle names apiece — plenty to chose from.
Amir Khalid
@Botsplainer:
The father of Manchester United footballers Gary and Phil Neville was the recently deceased Neville Neville.
Peale
@Germy: I guess. Lay off the obituary writers. Maybe the dead are more litigious than we thought.
Keith G
@Elie: The latest from the BBC contains a quote from an official in the US government
ThresherK
@FlipYrWhig: Over the weekend my wife and I saw The Black Book, a Dutch movie about life during the waning of WWII. What struck me most about it was the almost-Casablanca like moralities cast in greys when the character had, time and again, choices to save their own necks. The end of the war was very much in sight, but there was still plenty of deprivation, depravity, torture and death to be had.
I haven’t seen “Man in the High Castle”. Going back to my idea of likelihoods: I love speculative fiction as much as the next Argentine-raised clone of Hitler, but if it doesn’t address the bad strategic decisions by the Nazis, or the output from the USA in men and materiel, I like to know how it ends up differently.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@D58826:
You could at least make a case that the Chechnyans were fighting a civil war against Russia, though. There’s no civil war in San Bernardino.
The fact that she was from Afghanistan is interesting. There are a whole lot of people who hate our guts in Afghanistan now.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Elie: Turns out today she had made loyalty posts to Isis on FB….
I don’t use Facebook, but I just turned on MSNBC and Pete Williams said it was a private message that was soon deleted.
Anybody know the cause of all the twitter snark about (MS)NBC blundering into, or being allowed to blunder into, the suspects’ apartment? And is that apartment a different residence or what they’re now calling the house that looked like a duplex to me ?
shortstop
@Keith G: Does that make it better or worse, I wonder? In terms of likelihood of replication, I mean.
Botsplainer
@ThresherK:
If the UK fails at Dunkirk, they sue for peace.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
Clarence is an unreliable narrator, and what appears to be a genial and asexual angel. But what we are shown is more vital and erotic than what we are told. That’s how the visual medium of movies is supposed to work.
Little Mary’s declaration goes far beyond the domestic/marital context. She doesn’t say, “Oh, George, I want to be a nice girl, grow up and marry you.” And given the 1940s context of the film, Capra could not be too bold. But it is clear that the passion of these two does not require convention or marriage or domestication for its validation.
Also, George accepts and is friend’s with Violet. He accepts her even though in some towns a “woman like her” would have a negative reputation.
The great tragedy of Mary’s alternate life is George’s absence. She sees his kindness and his greatness (and is a witness when he gets his head and ear slapped, I think). Sam would presumably have been a great domestic catch for Mary, and Violet great sex and good times for George. But that would not have fulfilled that frighteningly assured declaration from that young girl, “George Bailey, I’ll love you until the day I die!”
dedc79
@tazj:
In the NY Times story, the guy was described as a messianic jew, which is different from being jewish. The messianic jews (or “jews for jesus”) are a southern Baptist effort to convert jews to Christianity by keeping many of the jewish rituals/traditions while adding belief in Jesus as the Messiah.
Darkrose
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Apparently the landlord let media crews in, and they’ve been filming photo albums, drivers licenses and anything they can find. It’s a complete clusterfuck.
Tripod
Throwing together a couple in a quasi arranged marriage, one moving halfway across the planet, and from disparate cultural backgrounds?
Add the stress of a newborn, and maybe some post-partum depression?
I’m not particularly shocked that that relationship dynamic went horribly, horribly wrong.
Matt McIrvin
@Keith G: People keep talking about how IS is different from al Qaeda in that its identity depends crucially on holding territory like a state, but I think it’s turning into more of a brand name that all sorts of organizations and individuals use when they want to be badass Islamist terrorists, just like al Qaeda did.
Botsplainer
@Brachiator:
I think Potterville looks like a lot more fun than Bedford Falls. You can probably get a good drink and lap dance there.
ThresherK
@Botsplainer: Okay, that I’ll believe. (Is that Man in the High Castle?)
tazj
@dedc79: Yes, thanks for pointing out my mistake. There is quite a difference between the two.
scav
@Amir Khalid: Well, in their case, they’re not German Evangelical Reformed, but in my mother’s mother’s family, no matter how many names you showed up at the font with, another got added (there’s at least one examble that managed five). Louisas and Carolines are a pretty solid indictor of Father Drusicke. (and they were all maids or gardeners, so pretty much clear of any overlap with your German examples).
Darkrose
It gets worse. Now random people are going in to the apartment. People are taking stuff. Unbelievable.
ThresherK
@Botsplainer: Pottersville reminds me of a mining town but without the economic boom. It’s all “wrong side of the tracks”, all “I’m stuck in this tarpaper shack, my wife left me and took the kid with her”. I can’t see the useful economy that take people out of abject misery which goes along with it.
This isn’t Scollay Square, a relatively small part of a huge metropolis. Nor does it seem to be very close to a big place like that. The model everyone points to is Seneca Falls, which is some distance from Syracuse and Rochester and was even moreso in mid-last-century.
MomSense
@Lamh36:
She was fantastic. I enjoyed the whole production. Did you ever hear Amber Riley sing Home? She sang it live at the White House I think and whew but she can sing.
Botsplainer
@ThresherK:
Dunno.
A UK armistice is the only way I see there being enough resources for Hitler to actually defeat Stalin. Roosevelt still wins in 1940, but by a diminished margin – and then the US pulls inward.
You’re looking at a far uglier world, the extermination of European Jewry, a longer occupation of India and significant Anglo-German cooperation in colonial regions.
The next battle lines would have been between the European hegemony run by Germany and the East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere, run by Japan.
Tripod
Looks like he was raised in the All American household:
Brachiator
@Germy:
Cutting costs and laying off people is not the same thing as making money. And a business might sue you to scare you off and prevent even a cursory look at wrong doing. And by the way, the Times’ layoffs go deeper than investigative reporters.
From a story on the Times’ deathwatch:
On the other hand, the Times covered the hell out of the San Bernardino tragedy, and got right details that were reported incorrectly on TV news and on social media like Twitter.
But here’s a bit of irony from an observer of the Times: “Also noted: Martha Groves, a reporter who took the buyout last month after 30+ years at the Times, showed up today in the Washington Post as a stringer on that paper’s San Bernardino stories. She is friends with Post editor Martin Baron.”
What’s that line about re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic? Applies to newspapers trying to stay afloat.
Peale
@Darkrose: Oh. Great. I wonder if they are rearranging things to get better shots ala Nightcrawler.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@ThresherK:
Haven’t seen the show, but the book keyed off FDR being assassinated in 1933. No New Deal becomes no economic recovery becomes no assistance from the US available. Dick apparently didn’t think much of FDR’s first VP.
It works pretty well within a 1960ish popular understanding of the war.
Elie
@Elie:
I was late and did not see earlier comments to hold my conclusions about this pending more information (Amir Khalid) — which I will. That is the right thing to do. Obviously something happened to both of these folks and sadly a little 6 month old will have this as part of her family history. I hope that they left her something more loving to remember them by than this….
Germy
@Brachiator: I wish I could remember the newspaper, but I remember a few years ago when one of them laid off their ENTIRE STAFF OF PHOTOGRAPHERS. One of them was a Pulitzer winner. A photographer actually took a photo in the conference room at the exact moment they were being told their jobs were gone.
The cost-cutting scheme was that reporters (the remaining ones) could take pictures with their little digital devices and upload them, in addition to writing the stories.
Brachiator
@Botsplainer:
And the people of Potterville look like they would all be Trump supporters.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@FlipYrWhig:
The portrayal of Mary in the Georgeless world always annoyed me, but when you put her in a triumvirate with Mrs. Bailey and Violet, her position becomes crystal clear. Mrs. Bailey is the Crone, Violet is the Woman, and Mary is the Maiden — they are the triple goddess.
No idea if this was a conscious decision, but it’s an ancient archetype, so it could easily have been an unconscious decision.
Amir Khalid
@Tripod:
As has been reported. Rizwan and Tashfeen were both of Pakistani heritage, and she went to college there. So I don’t see a great disparity in their cultural backgrounds. They wouldn’t have had much of a courtship in Saudi Arabia, true; in fact, it’s possible their first meeting was on their wedding day. But, as strange as it is to Westerners, that’s the norm over there. Their life in America seems as normal as can be, from what we know, its stresses entirely typical for young married people anywhere. I just don’t see an accident waiting to happen in that relationship dynamic.
Germy
@Amir Khalid: They met on an online dating site. At least that’s what I read.
Fair Economist
@FlipYrWhig: I don’t remember Mary getting hysterical until an apparently crazy guy significantly taller and stronger than here came up, grabbed her, and started yelling “Don’t you remember me, Mary?” I think a little hysteria is reasonable at that point.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Darkrose: How is that apartment not closed off as a crime scene?
*mind blown*
ThresherK
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Okay, now that’s just beyond the pale. I’ll have to read it! What kind of person would not try to stop Hitler or save Lincoln? Or even save McKinley!
Paul in KY
@BGinCHI: LOLing! That one may win intertubes for today.
Brachiator
@Germy:
Chicago Sun-Times, May 2013.
Another example of stupid budget cuts: the IRS (this time led by Republicans:
Paul in KY
@The Thin Black Duke: Might have been showing signs of dementia, in hindsight.
Paul in KY
@rikyrah: Come to the Dark Side….
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Darkrose:
WTF? Neither San Bernardino PD nor the FBI bothered to lock down a crime scene?
Timurid
Holy shit, the murder house tour on CNN… all they need now is Nancy Grace riding a stripper pole in the living room…
Paul in KY
@schrodinger’s cat: When you think ‘Pakistan is not Moslem enough for me, I’m heading to Saudi Arabia’, that says something about you (IMO).
opiejeanne
@Amir Khalid: I have a strong temptation to be glib and say that San Bernardino would do it for me, but I won’t.
But it would.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Amir Khalid:
The accident I can see waiting to happen is that she was raised in an arranged marriage culture and he was not. I can see a whole lot of problems stemming from that, especially since it sounds like his own father was physically abusive.
Someone up above brought up the idea of a folie a deux, a shared delusion or shared insanity, which is sounding like a possibility. That’s what happened at Columbine, too.
Amir Khalid
@Germy:
That wouldn’t have been a meeting in meatspace.
Paul in KY
@dedc79: Damn that’s a funny story…..Not
CzarChasm
@Zandar Thank you for using that graphic. I have friends that don’t understand why I use such a word. I now feel less alone in the wild backwoods of central Virginia. ^_^
Amir Khalid
@Paul in KY:
Lots of people come to live and work in Saudi Arabia without subscribing to its ideas about Islam. Tashfeen lived there for some years before going back to Pakistan for college; it seems most likely that her dad had a job there, and she followed her parents as a dependent child.
Paul in KY
@Botsplainer: Very, very sad story. Quite well written, though.
Amir Khalid
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
On the other hand, they encountered each other at an online dating website. While it’s still likely that they didn’t meet face-to-face until their wedding day, that’s not quite the traditional arranged-marriage culture either.
shortstop
@Paul in KY: I very much doubt he picked out SA as his only source for a bride. bestmuslim.com, which is at least one of the sites he was using, is a worldwide enterprise.
Paul in KY
@Betty Cracker: I like your candid comments to your daughter. No beating around the bush :-)
Paul in KY
@Amir Khalid: Certainly could be. Will have to await more info.
Elie
Just read that the media were “allowed”/given access to their apartment which local agencies still consider a crime scene. Mayhem has followed with them rifling through the couples belongings, papers and other private materials
trollhattan
@Germy:
Chicago-Sun Times, not exactly a down-market newspaper. Just tell your reporters to always carry an iphone. There, that’s handled! Tell the shareholders we’re going to have a great quarter.
ETA What’s arguably worse is Sports Illustrated laying off their photographic staff. The fvcking name is “Illustrated!”
Paul in KY
@MattF: Infidels (their characterization) partying for an Infidel holiday (again, how the nuts would characterize it).
FlipYrWhig
@Fair Economist: I used “hysterical” pointedly because I think that’s what Capra is doing with the character. She looks twitchy and paranoid from the first shot in Pottersville. You’re right that when George grabs her she essentially screams rape, because that’s what she thinks is happening. In Pottersville, sex is all mixed up with assault — see Violet being pulled thrashing out of the red light district.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Amir Khalid:
As I said a couple of days ago, I’m suspicious of American guys who insist on finding brides overseas. The kind of guy who insists that he needs to get a mail-order bride from, say, Russia because American women are all terrible is a guy who has something wrong with him.
Southern California has a large Muslim population, at least some of whom are pretty conservative (some Iranian immigrant women still wear a chador in public). I find it hard to believe that his only option was to marry a woman from overseas.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Landlord was escorted away by law enforcement
shortstop
@Paul in KY: You’re jumping to some as yet unsupported conclusions about their thought processes.
schrodinger's cat
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Arranged marriages are fucked up, even the ones where the bride and groom get to “date” before. The pressure to marry is tremendous.
I told my mom I wanted no part of that shit show when various aunties started suggesting that I go meet their second cousin once removed etc.
Elie
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Well if our worst suspicions are confirmed, there will be a lot more scrutiny in the future of “foreign” arranged marriages without complete vetting of the bride (or groom?). I would think most American Muslim families would also want that. Who would want this kind of heartache and shame?
trollhattan
@Paul in KY:
It’s the “war on the war on Christmas” given the event was a heathen “holiday party.” I’m sure O’Reilly can tease out the complexity for his viewers.
FWIW one of the wounded victims is a woman member of his mosque.
D58826
The FBI is officially confirming that it an act of terrorism and will be investigated as such. Given the amount of ammo and explosives you have to wonder if there are others in this plot. The FBI isn’t closing the door on other suspects
shortstop
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: and high freaking time, too.
Amir Khalid
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
It’s one way to meet the opposite sex, and it works for some people just as going out there and meeting people in real life works for others. I don’t think there’s necessarily something hinky about the men, or for that matter the women, who do it that way.
Paul in KY
@ThresherK: I guess they didn’t make the bad strategic decisions in the TV show. Probably didn’t invade USSR in 1940, etc.
trollhattan
@Elie:
I feel gutted for the family and especially that poor child. Imaging going through life knowing how you became an orphan, never learning why.
Paul in KY
@dedc79: Aren’t those the ‘Anti-Semitic Jews’? Saw something about them on Southpark.
D58826
@Elie: Apparently there is an extensive vetting process for these types of visas. It would still be easier to get into the US using the visa waiver program. Also it was almost 2 years ago that she came to the US. She might have simply been a Muslim woman coming to the US for a better life and only later became radicalized. The vetting process would not uncover that since that would be trying to predict the future.
delk
@Germy: It was the Chicago Sun Times. They let go of 29 photographers. Ten months later, they rehired four of them.
Paul in KY
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: VP was Garner. Crusty conservative Texan, if I remember correctly.
He was the one who said VP job wasn’t worth ‘a warm bucket of spit’.
schrodinger's cat
@Elie: There is plenty of vetting already. When one sponsors their spouse for a greencard, the onus is on you to prove that your marriage is legit and that you are not committing immigration fraud. The GC that the spouse gets is provisional for the next two years or so.
shortstop
@Amir Khalid: I think familial and/or community culture plays a part. An at least nominally Christian, American-born man importing a Russian bride because he finds ALL his countrywomen unacceptable raises the “loser” flag, because that’s really not how it’s normally done in his usual spheres. If one is raised in a religion, family or community — this includes American families and communities — in which arranged marriage is more common, it’s not strange.
Paul in KY
@Amir Khalid: I know, Amir. We’re talking about someone who waxed 14 people, though.
It’s a glib conjecture, I’ll grant you.
Paul in KY
@Elie: That is completely fucked up. Stuff could be planted!!
Paul in KY
@shortstop: .Matt & I were talking about religious fanatics in general. Not necessarily these 2 murderers.
That was my take on how generic Muslim Whabbist Nutwad would characterize a Christmas/Holiday party attended by non-Muslims.
liberal
@Germy: Hmm…well, my fellow residents in MA saw fit to elect a Republican douchebag governor who AFAICT was involved in a pay-to-play scandal in NJ. IOKIYAR.
Elie
@D58826:
Much mystery here… and much pain…..
Paul in KY
@trollhattan: At some point in time, he’s gonna have to know why. Must be told, can’t have someone springing it on him.
Paul in KY
@shortstop: I think it’s more like ‘all the women he can attract’ (which is probably a low number). I’m sure these guys aren’t down on every US woman ;-)
D58826
@Paul in KY: Actually I think the liquid in question is generated somewhat lower down by the body.
shortstop
@Paul in KY: Have you ever talked to American-born men who brought over Russian brides? I interviewed a dozen of them. To a man, they said things like, “American women are too selfish/oversexed/gold digging/independent/nontraditional,” and they said it minus qualifiers such as “some” or “many.” They were all quite earnest about how American women in the mass had failed them. Not a one seemed to realize he was placing a giant L on his own forehead. Hardest time I ever had maintaining a straight face.
trollhattan
@Paul in KY:
He’ll be told of the events, but I doubt anybody will ever know why. Either way, what a horrible burden to carry for life. “Hi, I’m Rocky Raccoon Manson. You might have heard of my dad.”
shortstop
@trollhattan: It’s a little girl. I feel for her, too.
Seanly
@ThresherK:
The TV show never states how the Axis is able to win out other than to state in one of the later episodes that Roosevelt was assassinated. I haven’t read the book, but in the book’s timeline, Roosevelt is assassinated early in his presidency, the USA never recovers from the Great Depression (this is also hinted at in the show), and, due to the lingering depression, isn’t able to assist the Brits. In the show, one side character talks about seeing his buddies dies at Virginia Beach, but can’t even remember what the fighting was about. In the show, several characters mention about the Germans dropping an atomic bomb on DC.
I enjoyed it. It deviates pretty far from the book, but the acting was good & pacing was just right. I’m looking forward to more seasons.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Amir Khalid:
I met G online, so I don’t have anything against internet dating. It’s especially good for people in minority groups who want to meet someone from the same religion, race, ethnic group, fan base, whatever.
But the combination of his father having been abusive and his marrying a woman overseas through online dating raises some red flags for me about his mental health. Most of the American guys who specifically want to marry someone from overseas have some rather strange ideas about how a wife is supposed to be or behave, and a lot of those relationships end up with women being abused, men being conned, or a combination of the two.
Elie
@Paul in KY:
yep — many concerns — I think the landlord was arrested for allowing the breach. There are real concerns for any evidence as well as the security of the possessions which do “belong” to their surviving daughter. Very ugly situation. Disgraceful.
Paul in KY
@D58826: You are correct! Thanks!
Paul in KY
@shortstop: I know. But if a real American hottie started showing interest in them, they’d be fine with THAT American woman (IMO).
Good professional job maintaining decorum. I’m sure it was quite difficult.
Paul in KY
@trollhattan: Would hope she gets a last name change. Excellent reason to get one, IMO.
Gone for 4 day weekend. Going to see Sleater-Kinney. Pretty stoked.
Matt McIrvin
@Seanly: The book is by Philip K. Dick. Plausible worldbuilding was the furthest thing from his mind at any time, so it probably isn’t the place to look for any kind of coherent story as to how an Axis-conquered US could really have happened.
pat
@Paul in KY:
Garner? I always thought it was Truman.
PurpleGirl
@scav: IIRC, his wife got a teaching job at a university in Norway. I believe Bergen or someplace in the northern areas. So they moved there for the duration of the teaching post.
Brachiator
@pat:
According to the Wiki:
shortstop
@PurpleGirl: Awesome and good for them. She’s a medievalist so the dark Norwegian winters will be especially atmospheric as a background to her work!