Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Thanks for reminding me that Van Jones needs to be slapped.

The revolution will be supervised.

Let there be snark.

No one could have predicted…

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Balloon Juice Bunker Standoff Update Day 40: Live Streaming the Insanity

Balloon Juice Bunker Standoff Update Day 40: Live Streaming the Insanity

by | 484 Comments

This post is in: 

Here’s the link to the live stream of the ongoing live stream of the call from the four holdouts at the Malheur Federal Refuge:

JJ McNaab is live tweeting this and providing commentary.

The FBI pulled their cordon and blockade in tighter earlier this afternoon (local time) after one of the four hold outs got around the previous lines of containment in an ATV and then retreated back to the refuge when the FBI tried to speak with them. As I’m listening to the live stream the FBI negotiator is continually instructing the hold outs to lay their weapons out, place their hands up, and come out peacefully. One of the hold outs, either David Fry or Sean Anderson is complaining to Franklin Graham that since the FBI won’t grant them the concession of letting Michelle Fiore escort them out, the FBI clearly can’t be trusted and want to kill them.

The whole thing is surreal and bizarre.

I’ll post updates as they come in.

——-UPDATE at 10:44 PM EST ——–

For those that are interested and curious, this is Gavin Seim who is hosting the live stream:

http://callmegav.com/

——–UPDATE at 11:00 PM EST———-

Sean Anderson just stated he thought he had the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence on his side. I cannot stress this enough: The Declaration of Independence is not a source of foundational law or governance in the US. It is a documentation of stated grievances against the acts of King George in the 1770s.

——–UPDATE at 11:24 PM———-

Here’s the link to the live updates at OPB (h/t Cheryl Rofer). OPB confirms that Cliven Bundy is on his way and has called for the militia to meet him there.

Reader Interactions

484Comments

  2. 2.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Please, oh please, Lord, grant me a wish. That Michele Fiore does something incredibly stupid with a firearm and she has to be taken out.

    Bonus points if You somehow manage to get Franklin Graham involved on the ground and in the engagement area.

  3. 3.

    Adam L Silverman

    @redshirt: The four hold outs and Michelle Fiore claim they are being held hostage by the FBI because they won’t let Fiore or Franklin Graham come in and escort them out and because the FBI wants them to disarm. Sandy Anderson has just stated she will not disarm and she will not go to their jail.

  5. 5.

    Ella in New Mexico

    Been listening for over 30 minutes and I simply cannot believe how much horse shit these people believe….

    Best parts: tears of joy when they heard Michele Fiore was in Portland…

    Them finally telling the screaming idiot David Fry to STFU because they couldn’t hear themselves think…

    Them refusing to come out until the morning when Fiore can hold their hands and walk them out…

    Them telling the FBI to go get Sheriff Palmer…

  9. 9.

    hilzoy

    Michele Fiore is actually trying to talk them down. The actual militants just sound insane. The oddest moment was when one of them said: We told the FBI that they are doing this the wrong way!

    #NotAWinningStrategy

  15. 15.

    Adam L Silverman

    @hilzoy: She’s trying to talk them down within her deluded understanding of what she thinks is going on. Its frightening that Sean and Sandy Anderson are so whacked out that they make Michelle Fiore seem reasonable.

  16. 16.

    jl

    @Adam L Silverman: I thought the FBI tightened the cordon to keep outsiders like Fiore from going in. Seems to me the FBI would be crazy to let an elected official in there with them, regardless of what they say they want about an escort.

    But why does the FBI need to do anything else? Have they demanded the the 4 remaining loons surrender by some deadline? Any reason why the FBI can’t just talk to the crazy people until they get tired and pass out?

  18. 18.

    beltane

    They are being “crucified”.

    I have a perverse desired to transport these people back in time and haul them in front of the Inquisition.

  19. 19.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Adam L Silverman: Escort them out to the FBI, who will slap cuffs on these criminals and airlift them to Portland to await trial, I should think.

    They should transport them via Blackhawks to Portland, and bill their families for the helo time. Do it in the daylight so at least they can enjoy the scenery, the Cascades from the air are quite a sight.

  20. 20.

    Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA

    The butthurt entitlement is strong with these crackpots. The shame of it is there are other groups out there who actually agree with them.

    We mock them now, but I’m genuinely afraid the country will collapse under the weight of these yahoos’ stupidity one day.

  21. 21.

    Adam L Silverman

    @WaterGirl: I had to finish up dealing with a purse snatcher in crime alley!

    Seriously, I stopped at the store on the way home from the dojo for bananas. Not realizing that I could live stream some. Didn’t get home till 9:30, had to take care of the four foots, get changed, then looked to see what was happening, saw the insanity, and started the post.

  22. 22.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman: They are delusional.
    Sean says “that’s why they’re giving me a felony.”

    Fiore is trying to calm them down while supporting their idiotic beliefs. Sean and Fry are melting down, and beginning to squabble with one another.

  23. 23.

    CaseyL

    If Michelle Fiore goes in there with them, she becomes a hostage. Ditto Franklin Graham. I don’t blame the FBI for saying no.

    ETA: Not that I give a rat’s ass about what happens to Fiore or Graham, but I’m sure the hostage possibility is on the FBI’s mind.

  26. 26.

    Ella in New Mexico

    I’ve got the live feed, the Oregonian and the Bundy Ranch FB page open at the same time…we all live in totally different universes…

  28. 28.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: Yep, that was announced last week and I covered it in the last update and in a comment in Mistermix’s post on Mount Saint Mary’s. What’s the over/under on him being arrested if he approaches the refuge tomorrow?

  31. 31.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Sean is screaming that Mark (the FBI dude, I think) needs to shut up or he’s going to push this where he doesn’t want it to go.

    @hilzoy: She is indeed. But she is equally deluded even as she tries to calm them.

    New Prayer – father confound the wicked … give us a place in liberty.

  32. 32.

    Adam L Silverman

    @jl: The FBI is going to keep the cordon tight and can wait them out. The FBI gets to rotate their personnel every six to eight hours back to their nice, warm hotel rooms and warm food. Unless the hold outs do something really stupid or violent, or Sandy Anderson goes into labor, in which case I’d expect an effort would be made to send in EMTs to evac her to a hospital, the FBI is more than happy to let them sit there and stew in their own juices.

  34. 34.

    jose

    This is like the worst clusterfsck of a conference call I have ever heard.
    And Michelle Fiore is a terrible crisis negotiator (who knew?) – especially with the idiot host breaking in. These guys just need to give up and walk to the FBI, and I am getting more and more pessimistic that is will happen with those two on the phone stirring it up.

  36. 36.

    jl

    @Cheryl Rofer: But the FBI has presented no demands to the crazies at the headquarters, right? If the FBI has not, what are they so upset about? Or did they just dial their crazy up to 11 at the thought of an elected official and another Bundy coming out there and now they are fraught with disappointment and proleptic separation anxiety? Or what?

  43. 43.

    Ella in New Mexico

    “Ok, guys, can we just stop and say a prayer again”

    Someone tell Gavin Seim God IS SENDING THEM A RESOLUTION–TO SURRENDER

  44. 44.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Baud:

    Anyone else find Franklin Graham the most annoying of these characters?

    This alone would have gotten you my vote but alas I’m slightly older than your target demographic.

  48. 48.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @jl: The FBI has told them to walk out with their hands up and no weapons. FBI continue to repeat that they should walk out.

    Sounds like Mark (the negotiator) is continuing in a very persistent way to wear them down. Not clear that allowing them the outlet to Fiore isn’t interfering with that. OTOH, she does pull them down from suicide by FBI every now and then.

  49. 49.

    jl

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks for info. So, this is just the hold outs acting crazy because they thought Fiore and Bundy would come and something wonderful would happen, and now it is not and they are having a tantrum?

    Sounds like nothing needs to happen unless the crazy hold outs totally melt down.

    Except: “Sandy Anderson goes into labor” Oh great. She is in late preganacy? Wonderful (sarcasm alert).

  50. 50.

    PaulW

    The hole thing is surreal and bizarre.

    Oh, there’s a hole all right. There’s a couple of a holes and they’re ruining a federal park with their play-acting towards sedition and faux outrage.

  51. 51.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman: Agreed. And it’s actually working in this case, but that doesn’t excuse her previous idiocy.

    Is it okay to say “just shoot me” yet?

    Sandy keeps screaming that she is not going to jail.

  53. 53.

    Adam L Silverman

    @efgoldman: Sorry, dropped out of that to do the update post and then over to the comments here. I would think there are decent odds. It would not surprise me to find out there is a sealed, closely held Federal charging document and warrant for his arrest from the standoff at his ranch and they have been patiently waiting for a good time and place to arrest him. It is equally likely that they don’t want to provide any additional reasons to escalate, so they’ll just tell him he can’t go in and escort him to the road. Not quite sure how to handicap this.

  56. 56.

    Adam L Silverman

    @redshirt: As long as these four are willing to, essentially, place themselves under self arrest at the refuge and the FBI can control access to the location, they are happy to try to wait them out. They don’t want a firefight if they can avoid it. Not because the FBI will lose, but because the last thing anyone wants is a dead pregnant woman as the result of a shootout with Federal officers.

  57. 57.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    This shit show fail parade has been going on for, what, more than a month, now? And reading about these asswipes bitching and moaning about how they can’t get anybody to guarantee that they can walk out and not get arrested, well, it just came to me in a flash that all this pitiful shit has been happening because these losers took over a fucking bird refuge. How sad is that? They took over a bird refuge, and sat there, freezing their asses off without any snacks for a month and a half. They terrorized half a county over a bird refuge, and now that they can’t go home to Mommy safe and sound without getting in trouble, they want to die in a shootout?

    This is American conservatism, boiled down to its rancid essence.

  61. 61.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: If it is, I’m afraid it will be suicide by Federal law enforcement officer. Sandy Anderson just whined to Fiore that they should just kill them and get them over with.

    I’m wondering if it wouldn’t make sense to just pump a mood stabilizer into the air vents to calm them down.

  64. 64.

    beltane

    The FBI should just blast Taylor Swift until these people surrender. I’d give it half an hour at most.

  65. 65.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Meanwhile, Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown and Tamir Rice are still dead. This ain’t fucking funny.

  66. 66.

    jl

    @Cheryl Rofer: Thanks. Was that an order or a “friendly” suggestion?

    My general impression is that the crazies thought some outsiders (Fiore, Bundy, who else?) would arrive and something nice would happen and some vague fantasy of no consequences would be realized and now they are upset that is not happening.

    So, is the FBI making a demand with a deadline (implied or explicit), or just saying “Hey, sorry we can’t let your friends in to play, but you know what? You can surrender peacefully just like you would with your little friends, any time you want if you put down your guns.”

  70. 70.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @The Thin Black Duke: It sure as hell isn’t. It pisses me off beyond belief, and shames me as a US citizen.

    As for Sandy’s comment, what about me? Adam hasn’t answered. /joking, mostly.

  72. 72.

    WaterGirl

    @Adam L Silverman: I was guessing that the FBI moved on this tonight because of the people who were supposedly coming tomorrow to “break them out”. Doesn’t that add to the urgency of the situation?

    Adding these other 2 or 3 people to the mix only seems like it complicates the situation instead of simplifies it or at least maintains status quo.

  73. 73.

    Betsy

    This is the most boring and banal conversation. It’s like a bunch of high goth teenagers sitting around trying to freak themselves out while each tries to impress each other with how much self-pity they can gin up.

  78. 78.

    WaterGirl

    @Adam L Silverman: “I’m wondering if it wouldn’t make sense to just pump a mood stabilizer into the air vents to calm them down.”

    I was thinking the same thing, except that I couldn’t figure out a way to get the tranquilizers or mood stabilizers in there. :-)

  81. 81.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Adam L Silverman: I’ve been thinking about the mood stabilizer through the air vents, but then I think about the Dubrovka Theater in 2002. I’m not sure what is available for that sort of thing. But at the moment, they all seem to be losing it. It’s as if they always have to be crazier than the person they’re talking to. Fiore can’t even get them to pray.

    Also, I agree that there probably are preparations to arrest Bundy, although IANAL and don’t know what those options are.

  82. 82.

    Mike in NC

    Franklin Graham needs to be terminated with extreme prejudice, as he’s such an asshole extremist himself.

  83. 83.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: Sandy Anderson seems to be the real issue. She’s coming off as both the least rational and the most extreme. This is an interesting and disturbing parallel to Vicki Weaver, who was the brains behind the Weaver family.

    If the FBI really wanted to wear them down, they’d set up huge speakers and blare recordings of cats in heat vocalizing all night long. Or the”meow meow” from the meow mix commercial over and over.

  84. 84.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Betsy:

    It’s like a bunch of high goth teenagers sitting around on meth and coke trying to freak themselves out while each tries to impress each other with how much self-pity they can gin up.

    Suggested edit.

  86. 86.

    Betsy

    What is wrong with these people. Whiny. Emo. ADD. Don’t know how to stop interrupting. Couldn’t organize their team of four to tear their way out of a paper bag.

    No offense to ADD emo 14 year olds.

    I’m surprised no one has shot them for chronic interrupting long before it came to this.

  88. 88.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Adam L Silverman: All rhetoric, no substance. Typical of his airheaded lot. Haven’t bothered to think things through. Totally adhering to the stereotypes about these assclowns.

  89. 89.

    Aleta

    Cliven has told the Guardian that he’s on the way
    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/feb/11/oregon-standoff-escalates-fbi-armed-occupants-malheur-wildlife-refuge-live

    I guess if they wanted to murder somebody tonight, that’d be a good way to do it.

    I don’t know whether I’ll be a negotiator or maybe a demander. I think we oughta take this country back and I think it’s time the feds get out of there.

    Bundy said he has not heard from law enforcement:

    I’m not really talking to the FBI. As far as I’m concerned, they have no jurisdiction or authority there.

  90. 90.

    gene108

    Posted this in the prior thread, but Michelle Fiore is conducting a suicide intervention with 4-5 potentially suicidal people.

  97. 97.

    The Thin Black Duke

    But hey, Beyonce made some white people nervous at the Super Bowl, so “both sides do it”, y’know?

  99. 99.

    Adam L Silverman

    @jl: Fry is on the edge of perpetual meltdown. And Sandy Anderson is working herself into a major tizzy. If she doesn’t get preeclampsia it’ll be a miracle.

    And I went to a Jewish day school, a Jesuit high school, a Methodist university, have a master’s degree in comparative religion and worked on the faculty team at USAWC with the chaplain assigned as a faculty member, and deployed to a combat zone and have never heard this much prayer.

  105. 105.

    Betsy

    Mehhhnn come save us fellow patriots! save ussssssss! … hwhine … mwhy aren’t nthey ncoming, mommyyyy??

  106. 106.

    jl

    @gene108: I stopped listening since sound here not good enough to understand much and I came in too late to follow. But you might be right.

    Weird that someone like Fiore was trying to talk some sense to what sounded like completely unhinged delusional people.

  107. 107.

    Steve from Antioch

    I despise every political position Michelle Fiore holds, but I have to say she is doing a hell of a job in keeping the “Patriots” calm.

  109. 109.

    Betsy

    Fiore is all like “some people in New York and New Jersey are watching you” … oh, boy! I bet that really revved their engines

  110. 110.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Bundy’s attorney speaking now on the live feed.

    We’re driving to Burns right now, so if we lose the signal it’s because we’re driving through the mountains.

    Fiore – you have 4 elected officials here.

    Sandy is going off the deep end. This will not end well. Adam can they lob anesthetic canisters in there? Or is there too much risk of friendly fire with that?

  111. 111.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Adam L Silverman: Sandy Anderson is definitely a problem, although Dave Frye also breaks things up by screaming when people start to calm down.

    Sandy is scared of going to jail. I almost feel sorry for her. It probably seemed like a cool adventure at first, and then got worse and worse.

  114. 114.

    redshirt

    I hope the lameness of these losers de-inspires other like minded “patriots” around the country no doubt thinking about doing something similar.

  119. 119.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I keep thinking of the nonlethal options, but earlier the Final Four said that they would consider teargas as the first shot being fired, so they would then feel justified in firing back. No guarantee that flashbangs or teargas would disable them sufficiently to prevent shooting, either toward the feds or their own heads.

  120. 120.

    Betsy

    You just want to tell them to shut up and call it a fucking *night*. It’s like listening to a roaring drunk at 3 a.m. who desperately needs to pass out and sleep it off. Or a toddler who keeps working himself into agony and can’t collapse as he generates more and more adrenaline.

  121. 121.

    Adam L Silverman

    @JPL: Jeff Banta? He came onto the call about five minutes ago or so and spoke to Fiore. Apparently he is one of Fiore’s constituents, which is, I guess, the justification for her going to the refuge.

  124. 124.

    jl

    @Adam L Silverman: Unless Anderson’s health goes south or starts to deliver, I guess the FBI will just keep talking. Seems the best course.

    Not sure what best course is if they seem ready to commit violence on themselves or take some pot shots.

    What a pathetic mess these hold outs, well failed insurrectionists and pointless criminals, are.

  125. 125.

    redshirt

    @Adam L Silverman:

    As long as these four are willing to, essentially, place themselves under self arrest at the refuge and the FBI can control access to the location, they are happy to try to wait them out. They don’t want a firefight if they can avoid it. Not because the FBI will lose, but because the last thing anyone wants is a dead pregnant woman as the result of a shootout with Federal officers.

    Your words are wise as usual, but! At some point there is an emboldening factor for like minded people, and simply the authority of the law.
    Many people will compare other situations and how violent the police are. No knock raids on weed dealers, shooting dogs, etc. We hear about it every day because it happens every day.

    And yet these loons sit protected in their bird sanctuary.

    It’s curious, the imbalance. This large discrepancy.

  126. 126.

    Adam L Silverman

    @jl: I’ve heard the FBI negotiator several times very clearly and it is an order: put your weapons down, come out with your hands up.

  127. 127.

    Betsy

    They’re definitely feeding on Fiore’s begging them to do things. They’re also getting off on the idea that 59K are listening. She’s playing right into their manipulations and tantrums. Get this woman off the phone. She’s just giving them grist for their emo mills.

  128. 128.

    gene108

    @Betsy:

    Fiore is all like “some people in New York and New Jersey are watching you” … oh, boy! I bet that really revved their engines

    She’s doing a good job in talking these guys down. Speeding in a rental car, on the phone, being live streamed on YouTube. It isn’t easy. Forgive the less than perfect script.

  130. 130.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Did they say what direction they’re coming from? I assume from the north of Burns, having turned off I-84 onto US 395 in Pendelton, the terrain from Pendleton to Burns is pretty rugged. Nothing like the Cascades or the Wallowlas, to the west and north, respectively, however. Also not exactly prime time for cell phone companies, who cherry pick like every other telco when it comes to facilities…heavy along the Interstate, not so much along the two lane roads in the middle of nowhere, where Burns is.

    From Bend to Burns along US 20 it’s pretty flat most of the way.

  133. 133.

    Roger Moore

    @Adam L Silverman:

    If the FBI really wanted to wear them down, they’d set up huge speakers and blare recordings of cats in heat vocalizing all night long. Or the”meow meow” from the meow mix commercial over and over.

    I take it Nyan Cat would violate the Geneva Convention or something?

  134. 134.

    jl

    @Mj_Oregon: Good news, if that is true. Then no reason for the FBI to do anything but wait them out and talk, unless these sad and sorry crooks start any violence.

  135. 135.

    dedc79

    @Baud: So that’s a crucifixion reference and a nazi reference in a ten minute span. What would make the crazy trifecta? A reference to slavery?

  137. 137.

    burnspbesq

    Trying to calculate the median survival time for these people in the general population of a Level 3 Federal prison, and thinking it’s pretty close to zero. They may have to be put in the Supermax for their own safety.

  140. 140.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    And now….A Braveheart reference! Better and better…

  142. 142.

    CaseyL

    It’ll be interesting to see how long they, and esp. Fiore, can keep talking before they go hoarse, lose their voices, and pass out where they stand.

  143. 143.

    jl

    @Adam L Silverman: Well, if it takes a few days to execute the order, no harm done, in my view. even though it is infuriating. The important thing was to stop anybody, particularly an elected official or Budny from trooping in there and making a bigger mess.

  145. 145.

    Adam L Silverman

    @WaterGirl: I think the FBI initially responded to the ATV ride outside the earlier cordon. Would they like this resolved before they have a traveling freak show and circus tomorrow? Definitely. But I don’t think they are going to do it in a kinetic/lethal manner. They are going to stay on their lines of containment, continue to issue the orders to lay down weapons and come out with their hands up. And they’ll prevent anyone from going in. I expect that Ms. Fiore and the other state legislators from Washington and elsewhere, as well as Ammon Bundy’s attorney, and Reverend Graham, and Cliven Bundy will be stopped at the turn off to the refuge and turn them away.

  146. 146.

    Wrb

    The most interesting bit, for me is that this is on display the fantasy that for many people justify our lax gun laws that incidentally kill 10000 to 30000 Americans a year, depending on what you count: the guns permit people to take a stand against the state.mwhen the state owns the armored vehicals, drones and Blackhawks will it ever turn out otherwise? If not, why pay the price in lives for indulging the fantasy?

  147. 147.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And I went to a Jewish day school, a Jesuit high school, a Methodist university, have a master’s degree in comparative religion and worked on the faculty team at USAWC with the chaplain assigned as a faculty member, and deployed to a combat zone and have never heard this much prayer.

    This is so perfect. I am in love with this sentence.

  151. 151.

    redshirt

    @efgoldman:

    I don’t believe anything Billy Graham believes, and his choice of friends [::ahem:: Tricksie Dicksie Nixie, Sanctus Ronaldus Maximus] left a lot to be desired, but I always thought he was honest and sincere.
    Franklin, OTOH, is a piece of work and a half. He combines all the best qualities of Raphael Cruz pere, Jerry Falwell, Savonarola, and a hyena.
    Which is an insult to Savonarola and hyenas.

    It’s like a synopsis of our domestic politics. The R’s were mostly crazy back then too, but they were civil about it for the large part. The genteel New England Republican was a well respected species for a while, now extinct, alas.

  153. 153.

    Adam L Silverman

    Sean Anderson just stated he thought he had the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence on his side. I cannot stress this enough: The Declaration of Independence is not a source of foundational law or governance in the US. It is a documentation of stated grievances against the acts of King George in the 1770s.

  158. 158.

    Adam L Silverman

    @CaseyL: The bigger issue is when Fiore and company hit the dead zones in the mountains in about twenty minutes or so. When that happens I fully expect the Andersons to completely come apart at the seams.

  159. 159.

    CaseyL

    “They won’t kill anyone while we’re all live-streaming.”

    They will if you clowns start shooting first.

  160. 160.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Gin & Tonic: That wasn’t a mood stabilizer. That was something with a very long name that makes one relieve their worst nightmare over and over for about ten hours or so.

  164. 164.

    Cheryl Rofer

    The FBI told them that their patriot friends have abandoned them. I was wondering when they would bring that in. It ups the psychological ante: you’re all along, only we can help you.

    But Fiore says no, that’s not true. I’m not sure that’s a good thing. Some tricky psychology going on. The back and forth could disorient them and serve the FBI’s purposes too. Sandy screamed that a couple of new vehicles have appeared in another position. I take what the Final Four say with a grain of salt.

  165. 165.

    jl

    @Adam L Silverman: Madison wrote that any person has the Declaration of Independence on their side, along with the rights comforts and mercy of Natural Law if they want to rebel. But not the Constitution, and good luck to them, they will need it.

    Maybe someone can explain that to him.

  166. 166.

    AnotherBruce

    Oh shit, as a sentient being, this really hurts to listen to. The only problem with stupidity is that it is not immediately hurtful to stupid people.

  167. 167.

    Steve from Antioch

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    Fiore said earlier that she was at the airport in Portand and wanted an FBI helicopter to come get her. When that was shot down, she started talking about driving there. I think that’s more than 250 miles. It will be a while.

  170. 170.

    Aleta

    Fiore agrees with the occupiers that the FBI negotiator Mark is being very rude, interrupting all the time.

  172. 172.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: They are both mentally/emotionally coming apart and feeding off of each other.

    Logistically there is no way to introduce a mood leveler. Moreover, I’m sure that even if there was they wouldn’t do it for fear that if something went wrong, someone had a bad reaction, the Feds would be accused of poisoning them.

  176. 176.

    jl

    @Cheryl Rofer: The FBI are the experts I suppose, But if no reason to resolve this quickly, why not just string it out in as boring and placid a way as possible until they get punchy from lack of sleep and their will power gives out and they stagger out?

    Seems like these crooks are so unstable, psych tricks could escalate things.

  178. 178.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    Most. Convoluted. Application. Of. Occam’s. Razor. EVER.

  179. 179.

    Mike J

    William Gibson ‏@GreatDismal 51m51 minutes ago
    Fiore’s account of what she thought she was doing on that phone is going to be interesting. Well, probably not, actually.

  180. 180.

    CaseyL

    @Baud: It’s possible Fiore will hit a phone dead spot in about 20 minutes. It’s also possible that the fool going out to light the heater will start a firefight.

  182. 182.

    rk

    Someone posted this over at Gawker. If the media in this country wasn’t so corrupt and utterly worthless, this little segment should be played along with snippets from the Republican debates. These sad, deluded, pathetic, illiterate morons are repeating things which republican mainstream (not fringe) politicians say. Planned parenthood killing babies, our rights being taken away, getting our country back and God. These pathetic fools will either die, taking innocents with them, or in the best case scenario spend their lives in prison.
    When the weasel Rubio says Barack Obama is deliberately destroying this country, or Fiorina lies about planned parenthood, this is the result.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TXxSd1AmK8

  188. 188.

    gene108

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Amazingly enough she’s the good guy in all this. And they’re going to pray again.

    I’ve had friends in crisis situations, not suicidal, but panic attacks. You can’t talk them down, without beginning to agree with some of their cray-cray principles first, because otherwise everything you tell them will just get met with resistance.

  189. 189.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: I was about to give up, too, until I read Adam’s comment that Michele will likely run into mountains and no cell service in about 20 minutes. Seems like maybe the connection with her is al that is keeping the crazies in check.

  190. 190.

    beltane

    @rk: Yup. These people talk like the average ran-and-file Fox viewer. It’s only their behavior that’s more extreme.

  197. 197.

    Adam L Silverman

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Anything they project in would likely be perceived as incoming fire of some sort and could trigger outgoing fire from the hold outs. Moreover, there is a pregnant woman in there and I don’t think anyone wants to take a risk of putting her or her pregnancy at risk.

  200. 200.

    Howard Beale IV

    @Cheryl Rofer: There is no vaporized benzo-what was used during the theater crises was fentanyl, but the FSB didn’t calculate the correct dosage which led to the massive deaths. I think the Feds having the layout of the place could do a much finer calculation of the necessary doage to make them loopy enough to deal with. It’s still a dangerous attempt, tho.

  202. 202.

    Aleta

    Dan Ackroid playing Jimmy Carter, talking down a phone caller on a bad trip:
    (“Do you have any Allman Brothers? OK, put that on”) (IIRC)

  204. 204.

    jl

    I hope it all goes peacefully, and the failed and pathetic insurrectionists are peacefully arrested and in jail soon, and no one hurt.

    If it does end peacefully, an audio record of their pathetic deluded insanity might be a good thing.

    Edit: in other words. good night. Everyone have a good vigil over what I hope are boring proceedings.

  205. 205.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Villago Delenda Est: Part of the reason the Weaver’s wound up on the Fed’s radar is that Vicki was sending letters to elected officials, and Federal law enforcement, that began with; “To the Servants of the Whore of Babylon in Exile” and then went on with lists of accusations and things that would happen to them. She was also the one that initially drifted into Christian Identity and then pulled her husband and family with her. If you see interviews with Randy Weaver he is clearly not very bright.

  209. 209.

    Aleta

    Great, they’re trying to put the 18 year old singer who was in the car when Lavoy was shot (and prob has PTSD) on the phone.

  210. 210.

    hilzoy

    @rk: Don’t forget when they asked the FBI why they “allowed” Hillary Clinton to run for President. Which is an interesting view of the FBI’s legitimate authority.

  211. 211.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman: It was mostly snark as I understand there aren’t vaporizable benzos, so any anesthestic might be really dangerous. (or what Howard Beale IV said…) And the tossing thereof could result in return fire.

    G*d, that crazy singer has called and may sing.

  217. 217.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mj_Oregon: Okay, I could’ve sworn I’ve seen reporting that indicated she was pregnant as well. But if she’s not, than I stand corrected. Regardless she’s clearly disassociating.

  218. 218.

    Steve from Antioch

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Fiore is being coached by the FBI. She is doing everything right and I can’t imagine she is that capable.

    The FBI could cut off the cell phone connection anytime they want, so it whatever is happening it is with their consent.

  220. 220.

    Steve in the ATL

    @hilzoy:

    Don’t forget when they asked the FBI why they “allowed” Hillary Clinton to run for President. Which is an interesting view of the FBI’s legitimate authority.

    They are probably wondering why they are facing charges when Hillary hasn’t even been arrested yet

  225. 225.

    redshirt

    So, if I’ve learned anything from this incident, you just need to take over a not-too-important government property with no violence or hostages, but with lots of guns and snacks. And then you can have a weeks long platform for your brand of crazy.

    Spread the brand!

  226. 226.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman: So is her husband. And Fry has been gone for a bit, so I’m no longer sure he can be talked down. The closest to sane seems to be Jeff Banta, who’s been mostly quiet.

    I wish they would understand the concept of “walk out without your weapons.”

  228. 228.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Roger Moore: Both the cats in heat vocalizing and the meow mix jingle used to create sleep deprivation do. Of course these aren’t prisoners of war, nor are the enemy combatants.

  229. 229.

    gene108

    @redshirt:

    Many people will compare other situations and how violent the police are. No knock raids on weed dealers, shooting dogs, etc. We hear about it every day because it happens every day.

    And yet these loons sit protected in their bird sanctuary.

    It’s curious, the imbalance. This large discrepancy.

    Like minded weed dealers do not blow up Federal buildings as payback for the no-knock raids.

    They are terrorists and the government is a bit cautious for the greater good.

  233. 233.

    Mj_Oregon

    They are not in a building. They set up a camp to one side of the main administrative building and have been outside “camping” because they can say they’re just campers and not breaking any laws. There’s no way of concentrating any kind of aerosol tranquilizer where they are right now.

  234. 234.

    Adam L Silverman

    @jl: I would be very, very surprised if they let anyone in. They will intercept these folks well outside the road to the refuge and we’ll see what happens as a result.

  237. 237.

    hilzoy

    @Steve from Antioch:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Fiore is being coached by the FBI. She is doing everything right and I can’t imagine she is that capable.

    The FBI could cut off the cell phone connection anytime they want, so it whatever is happening it is with their consent.

    This is a really good point.

  238. 238.

    Aleta

    This innocent claim that they’re merely camping in the outskirts of the refuge? They’re camped in the building’s driveway turnaround, using the refuge generator, propane tanks and gas cans, vehicles, firewood, cookware …

  239. 239.

    Steve in the ATL

    I really need to go to bed but I can’t look away. I just opened another bottle of wine, in fact.

    Sorry CNN et al, but it has not occurred to me at all to turn on the TV.

  241. 241.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @efgoldman: HE and WP both do numbers on structures. WP is supposed to only be used against structures and equipment. You know, like belt buckles.

  243. 243.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Adam L Silverman: Shit. I missed a bingo.

    But in my (admittedly limited in this area of law) opinion the Geneva Convention is not applicable. Lots of noise is legal!

  244. 244.

    AnotherBruce

    Jesus, they think the phone is going out because of FBI? They flipped out because of a temporary loss of reception, probably in the mountains. It’s a long fucking drive from Portland to Burns and they are going to lose phone contact several times. I know, I’ve done the drive several times myself because I love the refuge and Steens Mountain. I want to go back there this spring and watch the crazy dance of mating Sandhill Cranes. Fuck these idiots. It’s personal for me.

  245. 245.

    gene108

    How do you fight this system Sean?

    Go to the Martin Luther King, Jr. memorial in D.C. He fought the system. He had major wins.

    There are ways to do it.

    It’s been done.

  247. 247.

    Adam L Silverman

    @jl: Sure, and then he hijacked a Constitutional convention to radically remake the nature of the United States. We do not and have never governed anything in the US according the Constitution. And other than the Catholic founders, none of the others believed in Natural Law.

  248. 248.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Aleta: They are physically occupying Federal property, and they’re armed. Whether or not they’re in the buildings themselves now is irrelevant. They’re impeding the stated use of the property, as an administrative and educational center. Despite Ammon Bundy’s ludicrous claim that the entire occupation is an “education effort”.

  251. 251.

    Gin & Tonic

    Now they’re whining about Common Core. I’ll bet a beer that not a one of them could state even one fact about curriculum standards.

  252. 252.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @efgoldman: Left out the part about the Archangel Gabriel delivering The Constitution on stone tablets to Philly for transcription to parchment.

  253. 253.

    sigaba

    @gene108: Martin Luther King proudly went to jail. The guys’ most infuriating tick is their insistence that civil disobedience means everyone gets to walk.

  254. 254.

    PhoenixRising

    @gene108:

    Like minded weed dealers do not blow up Federal buildings as payback for the no-knock raids.

    Obviously weed dealers are leaving things on the table in terms of their negotiating position. Should think about a trade group, union, etc. that would commit randomly timed acts of violence against the Union.

  255. 255.

    Mj_Oregon

    hollow points, guns, obamacare, common core? oy. That’s it for tonight for me.

    I hope that it ends well.

  260. 260.

    Adam L Silverman

    @beltane: The girl from that Kansas family of singers. She was in Finicum’s truck. They had traveled to the refuge to improve morale by signing patriotic and religious songs for the occupiers.

  265. 265.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Sandy just told Rev Graham to tell Mark “we wouldn’t leave because we’re not going to jail.”

    Fiore asks if they need her to pick up some McDonalds on the way there. Apparently snacks are running low.

  267. 267.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @sigaba:

    Martin Luther King proudly went to jail. The guys’ most infuriating tick is their insistence that civil disobedience means everyone gets to walk.

    Ironically, OWS seems to have shared the same idea.

  280. 280.

    Adam L Silverman

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): This comes from the fringes of the 2nd Amendment maximalist stuff where it overlaps with the extremist libertarian and the Skousen ideologies: disarmed people aren’t free, they are slaves. Anything or anyone that leads to disarmament is an affront to Liberty and the beginning of the slide into slavery.

  282. 282.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @srv: I thought that was Sean, but I’m getting lost. Gavin says they’re getting troll calls. Go Anonymous!

  285. 285.

    Frank Wilhoit

    @Cheryl Rofer: See, that is just wrong. That is the legally constituted authority saying that their job is not worth doing. That is the institutions of the nation abdicating their functions, with a great big “whatevs”.

    The next lot will know they have 40 days — SORRY, 41! — and will have some idea of what to do with them.

  287. 287.

    gene108

    Some people are just assholes. Who thought putting the conference line that’s basically keeping 4 people from getting themselves and several law enforcement officers hurt or killed is a good idea?

    Pedro may have some blood on his hands before this is over.

  288. 288.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Dissociatives live again on line 1! “They’re bringing in vehicles behind us.”

    Prayer again. Drink!

  289. 289.

    PhoenixRising

    …Happy Meals for everyone. How many girl toys and how many boy toys was that again? Apple or fries?

    This has passed up surreal and arrived at farcial.

    I have an early appointment to take the cat to the vet, so I’m tapping out. Someone text me if we’re getting a new republic more in line with these fools’ preferences, ‘kay?

  290. 290.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Frank Wilhoit:

    That is the legally constituted authority saying that their job is not worth doing. That is the institutions of the nation abdicating their functions, with a great big “whatevs”.

    How are they not doing their jobs?

  294. 294.

    Ruckus

    @debbie:
    Did 45 days, no shower in the navy. Once. In the Caribbean in the summer. The ship could not make enough fresh water for showers or laundry. It isn’t as bad as it sounds as long as everyone doesn’t shower. However. When we got back to home port and had hooked up shore power/water/steam from the dock, I took a steaming hot shower for 1 1/2 hrs. I still felt scummy.

  297. 297.

    FlyingToaster

    @Roger Moore: Dissociation, ranting about irrelevant subjects, “camping” on a driveway, threatening to shoot everyone?

    Either withdrawal or brain damage. Hard to tell the difference when they’re this far along.

    And I seriously doubt that Sandy Anderson is pregnant as she’s 47; having been a 46-year-old primipara, if you want that baby, you’re at the damn OB/GYN every two weeks. Not “camping” in the driveway of a bird refuge, with GUNZ.

  298. 298.

    The Republic, Blah Blah Blah...

    @Adam L Silverman: Shhhhh…

    Let them go on and on and on like this…

    Soon they’ll be quoting L.Ron Hubbard, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and the Martian Chronicles…

  299. 299.

    Aleta

    “We’ve got plenty of food. That’s why we know God wants us to be here. If he didn’t want us to be here, he wouldn’t have made us comfortable (here).” (Sandy Anderson)

  301. 301.

    wvng

    On JJ MacNabs twitter feed, she just shared a Bundy email putting out a call of patriots to descend on the refuge NOW!.

  304. 304.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @sigaba:

    “Actually on second thought, is Coast to Coast AM still on the air? …”

    This would work better on Phil Hendry’s show/podcast.

  307. 307.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Reporter Amanda Peacher of OPB is at the refuge. She isn’t tweeting. I’m guessing that she has access to law enforcement and won’t be able to say much until this is all over.

  308. 308.

    PhoenixRising

    @Ruckus: I once won an extra consecutive day’s leave on a bet with my 4 peers–I was the last to tap out and shower. 8 days. I took a lap through to (solar hot) take a layer off, swam 2 miles in the lake, then added soap and rinsed back in the hot and cold running etc.

    1) I was far more uncomfortable most of the weeks I spent as a professional Girl Scout than these clowns have been for their 40 days in the high desert…it didn’t make me worthy of respect for the sacrifices I was making.
    2) I want a Happy Meal with fries. Nuggets, not a cheeseburger.
    2)

  311. 311.

    Frank Wilhoit

    @Omnes Omnibus: Their job was to end this situation within the first twelve hours, by whatever means necessary. As that was not done, and as I have said in other fora, the authorities (county, state, federal) left themselves looking incapable and indifferent. The “occupiers” won, regardless of what happened after the first twelve hours or what happens after these new outsiders are allowed in tomorrow (I can hardly type for outraged incredulity) and some further days or weeks go by, during which the flow of seditious propaganda will go unchecked.

  312. 312.

    Gin & Tonic

    When that moron Gavin got to “patriots serving time behind bars for liberty,” I had to tap out. I had ancestors and relatives disappear in the Gulag. These fucking idiots have no fucking idea what liberty means.

  318. 318.

    sigaba

    @gene108: Some friends of mine are professional Girl Scout staff, they’re some of the happiest and most content people I know; one of them left a job as a comic book editor to do it.

  321. 321.

    PhoenixRising

    @gene108: Well, yes; unlike the Boy Scouts, we pay adults who can pass a background check to enforce safety basics in the wild, which is why you never see a headline ‘Girl Scout Campout Ends in Tragedy’ but the BSA kill a handful to a dozen kids every damn summer under the supervision of volunteers with no training requirements. Pro tip: Mother Nature bats last.

    If you like getting dirty teaching girls to be self-sufficient and respectful users of our great nation’s natural resources…it’s priceless. In actual cash, no.

  322. 322.

    piratedan7

    and if these folks were black and armed, would we still be here a month later, with only one fatality?

  325. 325.

    Adam L Silverman

    @srv: He’s been ready to surrender at least three previous times. Including right after they were the last four left. He was going to turn himself in, as he was the only one of the four with an outstanding warrant. Every time his wife has convinced him and the others to continue holding out.

  326. 326.

    Anoniminous

    Right Wingers can’t do a Popular Insurgency for toffee. If they’d read their Mao and Guevara they’d would have known trapping yourself in the middle of nowhere, hundreds of miles from support and potential support is dumb.

  335. 335.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    We had an electrics outage for a couple hours. Looks like I missed a lot! But it’s not like any of it was surprising, is the surprise.

  336. 336.

    Elie

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Every time his wife has convinced him and the others to continue holding out

    Hmmmm — she might have a different agenda from which his survival may not be a desirable outcome for her? Just saying. Interesting that this has happened more than once..

  340. 340.

    lgerard

    They are piss poor revolutionaries, bragging about the sacrifices they are making, but afraid to go to jail and worrying about their snacks.

    Thoreau, Gandhi, King, and even Hitler went to jail willing for their causes.

    Not these babies

  344. 344.

    Frank Wilhoit

    @Omnes Omnibus: The 12-hour threshold is not, of course, in the text of any law; it is a placeholder for a common-sense threshold of promptness. Some allowance has to be made for the difficulty of transportation in remote areas. In a built-up area, 12 hours would be far too long.

    The point is that the obligation “to take care that the laws be faithfully executed” flows down from the President to the entire Executive Branch, including DOJ/FBI. In this case, the FBI, by allowing this situation to drag on as long as it has, have fallen very far short of that standard; so far as to call themselves into complete ridicule. They have demonstrated a “depraved indifference”, in the precise meaning of that legal term-of-art, to the lives, property, and well-being of every citizen of the United States who depends upon them for protection.

    This kind of incident is going to be repeated, worse each time, as long as the perpetrators believe the authorities will respond with a 24- or 41-day shrug.

  348. 348.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mike J: Too a point. We never deploy the Girl Scouts, so they really are the last resort. And they never have budgetary issues to impact their acquisitions process.

  350. 350.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Frank Wilhoit: Got it. They didn’t do things the way you would have. Me, I will be happy if it ends relatively bloodlessly and the people involved get prosecuted.

  351. 351.

    Steve in the ATL

    So they’re saying they will surrender at the checkpoint tomorrow morning while carrying American flags. I’m confused–do they or do they not acknowledge the US government?

  353. 353.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Okay, y’all, it’s my bedtime. Here’s a summary of things as I see them.

    Sounds like the FBI is going to wait until morning and Michele Fiore’s arrival. I saw a tweet questioning whether Franklin Graham is actually going to come. Bundy? Eh.

    I would not be at all surprised if Fiore and Seim are getting some advice from the FBI. Seim started out with the cray-cray, and now he’s helping to calm the Final Four down. Nobody’s going to say that in public any time soon, though. He and Michele have been handing it off to each other. She seems to be offline at the moment.

    We haven’t heard from David Fry for a while, and Sandy is sounding relatively calm.

    There are at least five trucks, a helicopter, and an ambulance.

    Let’s hope that they all walk out arm in arm with Michele, no guns.

  354. 354.

    AnotherBruce

    At this point, is there anyone that doesn’t believe that Les Zaitz doesn’t deserve a Pulitzer prize? His reporting on this slimy mess has been outstanding.

  357. 357.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Steve in the ATL: By telling the FBI they’ll be the ones carrying the American flags they think the FBI won’t confuse them with anyone else trying to surrender tomorrow morning.

  358. 358.

    Adam L Silverman

    @PhoenixRising: I once argued that I’d do the baking for USAWC to have a bake sale to make up for what DOD clawed back because of the sequester. The comptroller was not amused. In his defense, he doesn’t have a sense of humor.

  361. 361.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Adam L Silverman: Ha! Fair point–the illegitimate flag will have to do if you can’t scrounge up a red carnation and don’t want to be confused with other half-witted, meth-addled, hillbillies stumbling out of a closed bird sanctuary in the middle of winter.

  365. 365.

    CaseyL

    Fiore says a whole convoy of elected officials are going to join them at Melheur tomorrow morning when they turn themselves in. I sure as hell hope she’s lying.

  366. 366.

    Roger Moore

    @Steve in the ATL:

    I’m confused–do they or do they not acknowledge the US government?

    They recognize the country and the constitution (or at least some bizarrely twisted version of it) but not the government. Don’t be surprised if the flags they’re carrying are upside down.

  368. 368.

    TOP123

    @Gin & Tonic: what, refer to an actual historic example in which people’s rights where arbitrarily and without notice shockingly infringed with horrifying consequences?

    Maybe the NKVD just made prisoners pee outside the Lubyanka with no bathrooms? Did they just withhold snacks in Kalyma?

  369. 369.

    Frank Wilhoit

    @Omnes Omnibus: You are less safe because of the way this has been mishandled. So are a few hundred million others. The job is to keep them (and you) safe. The job is sometimes messy. The job just got a lot harder and it is going to keep getting harder — until/unless the job starts to be done instead of being shirked, and that enough times to set an expectation.

    In the meanwhile, get used to a lot of domestic terrorism.

  371. 371.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: @CaseyL: I would be very surprised if the FBI lets these folks anywhere near the hold outs. The last thing they want is to legitimize a bunch of state legislators and Cliven Bundy who all believe this stuff and enable these folks in their behavior.

  375. 375.

    SoupCatcher

    @efgoldman: I’m cookie manager this year for my daughter’s Brownie troop. Which means I’m dithering right now trying to decide if I want to get more cookies for this weekend’s booth sales or go with the inventory I have sitting in the front room. Deadline to get my order in for Friday pick-up is in 2.5 hours.

    Only four and a half weeks to go…

  376. 376.

    Mary G

    The Bundy Ranch Facebook page that calls on America to WAKE UP and go to Oregon has 1,455 likes. I doubt that the massive wave of patriots they’re counting on to show up is going to materialize. Most of the comments I read are along the lines of “you morons need to go to jail.”

  377. 377.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Adam L Silverman: [Yeah, I can’t let this go.] It’s a hard call. You don’t want Fiore and Graham where they might get shot. But if it facilitates a peaceful surrender, might be worth it. The legitimation will last until they slap the handcuffs on.

    Also, as I said (although perhaps not clearly, I’m getting sleepy), I wouldn’t be surprised if Fiore and Seim had some contact with the FBI, or being used by them. I’ve also wondered that about Grant County Sheriff Glenn Palmer.

    Now I really am going to log off.

  382. 382.

    Roger Moore

    @lgerard:

    Why do all the “patriots” pronounce tyranny “tie-ran- e”?

    I want to know why a bunch of such supposedly moral and upstanding individuals are so interested in dildos and trannies.

  386. 386.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: Palmer is being investigated by the Oregon State Sheriffs’ Association. He’s got a challenger in his bid for reelection and a local resident of his county took out a full page add in the local paper decrying him and calling for his investigation. He’s in a lot of trouble.

  387. 387.

    scav

    If they come out bearing US flags with 50 stars, it’s a sign of their impurity. True patriots do not recognize Hawaii as anything but a hotbed breeding ground of foreign communist islamicist faux presidents.

  388. 388.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’ve got Chocolate Extreme and Cappuccino Blitz. I would’ve bought Moose Tracks, but there’s Moose Tracks, Chocolate Moose Tracks, Fudge Moose Tracks, Mint Moose Tracks, and a frozen yoghurt Moose Tracks. I just couldn’t handle that many choices. So then I thought Otter Paws. Otter Paws, Chocolate Otter Paws, Fudge Otter Paws… Bear Claws – regular Bear Claws or Chocolate Bear Claws. It was just too much pressure.

  393. 393.

    Adam L Silverman

    Well it seems like things are starting to wind down on the live stream. They are convinced that the FBI is standing down, which just means the guy is probably going to stop ordering them to surrender peacefully. And the occupiers seem to have moved inside according to Sandy Anderson. And I’m turning the thing off because they finally connected with Victoria Sharp and I don’t want to listen to her sing.

  395. 395.

    CaseyL

    OK, the singing is too much. I’m headed for bed.

    ‘Night, all!

    Very curious about what’ll be on the news tomorrow.

  397. 397.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @redshirt: srv has been here forever. srv has a fantastic recollection of blog events. srv is still a troll. srv is a pure troll whose goal is simply trollery.

  400. 400.

    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel

    @Steve in the ATL:

    I was in a place that had a TV tuned to CNN (no audio), and they mostly seemed to have Mayor noun-verb-9/11 Giuliani on complaining about Beyoncé at the Super Bowl.

    You missed nothing, IOW.

  404. 404.

    SoupCatcher

    @efgoldman:

    Meanwhile she got hooked into being town cookie czarina, or whatever they call it… TWICE!

    That’s impressive!

    We’re only a quarter of the way through this year’s sale and our service unit cookie coordinator has already starting sending out tautly-worded e-mails on the need to follow directions for reordering. The cookie cupboard is a shipping container sitting in a parking lot and more than eighty percent of the people showing up to pick up orders last weekend had placed their order past the deadline. Some of them from their car while sitting in the parking lot.

  405. 405.

    Steve in the ATL

    I’ll sign off by repeating my comment that sovereign citizens must be the stupidest fucking people in the country.

  411. 411.

    Redshift

    @Frank Wilhoit: Right, because domestic terrorism has never happened in response to a forceful, “messy,” end to an armed standoff. Unless you count the worst one in American history and various others.

    But since we already have past data for your preferred approach, peaceful resolution this time will provide a good test of whether you’re right.

  415. 415.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    My mom’s got a friend who survived leukemia, so she overnighted me a six-pack of Graeter’s as soon as my mom told her about my diagnosis. Hadn’t had it before. Turns out that Meijer carries it in Michigan now, so when I’ve got the hankerin’…

  419. 419.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I didn’t see it at Publix when I was in FL when I was down a few weeks ago, but I wasn’t looking to hard. Mom would have eaten it if I didn’t shovel it down quick, then she’d blame me for her weight gain. Every flavor they’ve got is magnificent, though. Hell, I even liked the peach stuff, and I don’t care for peach ice cream. They do small batches for quality’s sake.

  421. 421.

    lgerard

    Asking for Franklin Graham to negotiate for them just shows how out of touch they are.

    Should have asked for Beyonce

  424. 424.

    West of the Cascades

    As an Oregonian, I am so fucking sick of this Refuge situation and the assholes who are still holed up there. It’s driven some deep fissures into the Oregon environmental community about how much, and how forcefully, we can preach about the underlying depredations that livestock ranchers cause on the public lands and the Refuge in particular. At this point, if the remaining four surrender peacefully, great. If they are teargassed until they expend their ammunition and are arrested, great. If they decide to kill themselves, or go out in a blazing firefight with the feds, great. But it has to end tomorrow. And then the feds need to go full-bore at this movement, including arresting Cliven Bundy, its mythical hero, and prosecute these scum as fully as possible.

  430. 430.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’ve only brought it up once here, and in passing. This time last year I stopped hanging out here because work was killing me. My second job site was outside, late at night, all that friggin’g snowy mess to deal with. March rolled around and I gave myself an umbilical hernia. Put off going to the doctor until May. Emergancy room referred me to a surgeon who spotted bile in my abdominal cavity and what looked like liver damage- that was June. He referred me to a grastro-enterologist who I saw in the middle of July (in the meantime I was wasting away, jaundiced, didn’t know wtf was going on). Gastro-enterologist diagnosed liver damage right away, sent me for blood work and a CT scan. Nothing popped up through the blood work, but the CT scan picked up huge tumor in my liver. Biopsy found that it’s intrahepatic cholangiocarcinoma- a bile duct cancer. The tumor is in my bile ducts inside my liver.

    Started chemo right away, and we’ve gotten significant shrinkage in the tumor. Had to switch off the original regimen (which was so effective) just a few weeks ago because I was losing some hearing, getting tinnitus and breaking out in hives as soon as the Cisplatin infusion would begin.

    I’d be lying if I told you that kicking this thing’s ass is going to be easy. There’s no known cure for it. But I’m up for the fight, and, who knows, maybe I’ll be the guy that gene therapy cures of this rare cancer. Either way. I’m lmao through the whole thing. Life’s just fucking crazy. :D

  433. 433.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Thanks, Adam. I plan on being here for as long as possible. I’ve always enjoyed this place, even when Cole was a wingnut.

  439. 439.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    I’m comfortable with it, same way I’ve been comfortable with discussing my alcoholism over the years (almost 11 years!). I think it’s the best way to remove the stigma. Had to explain to the 4-year old grand-niece tonight why I couldn’t roughhouse with her- and she plays rough and tough- because of the pump I’m wearing until Friday. Now we didn’t get to the bit about the mortal coil shuffle, but we’ll get her comfortable with that before my number’s up.

  440. 440.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @Aleta:

    Thanks, Aleta!

    It’s funny- ironic- reading about the rarity of this cancer (20K dignoses worldwide annually, mostly in Southeast Asia, only 2K in the States) and then talking to all these people who have it orknow someone who’s got/had it.

  443. 443.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    She got what we explained to her, though. For as tough as she is at times, she’s got a lot of empathy in her.

  448. 448.

    seaboogie

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    fact that she performed it at the Super Bowl is pure amazeballs.

    Amazeballs? Omnes? Is that a legal term? Maybe you’re having an early spring in WI too….

  450. 450.

    seaboogie

    @Omnes Omnibus: Heh…still chuckling a bit…

    I’m just thinking of the people I’ve heard use that term, and you don’t really fit that mental profile for me. ‘Twasn’t a dis, just not your usual form of commentary.

  451. 451.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @Steeplejack:

    TYVM!

    @Aleta:

    Since I wasn’t beyond chemo at the start (though surgery is out of the question, and radiation will take more shrinkage via chemo), I went with proven medicine and a diet I can enjoy.When I turn that last corner, I’ll stick with the fatty pork chops and good bbq down the road. as long as I can choke it down. So far, I’ve gained weight, even over my preferred 150 lbs.. I’m mid 160s now and getting plump. Skinny frame and all that business. ;)

  453. 453.

    seaboogie

    @Omnes Omnibus: That sounds more like you. And on that rec, I’ll check it out – I don’t have the teevee and was working, so didn’t see it, but I will. Thank you.

  456. 456.

    AxelFoley

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Please, oh please, Lord, grant me a wish. That Michele Fiore does something incredibly stupid with a firearm and she has to be taken out.

    Bonus points if You somehow manage to get Franklin Graham involved on the ground and in the engagement area.

    Yes, please.

  457. 457.

    West of the Cascades

    It looks like Cliven Bundy was just arrested here in Portland!!! Hallelujah!!

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/feb/11/oregon-standoff-escalates-fbi-armed-occupants-malheur-wildlife-refuge-live

    Link to Multnomah County Jail Website: http://www.mcso.us/PAID/Home/Booking/1364036

    Booking Information
    SWIS ID
    795422
    Name
    Bundy, Cliven D
    Age
    74
    Gender
    Male
    Race
    White
    Height
    6 ft 0 in
    Weight
    200 lbs
    Hair
    Brown
    Eyes
    Brown
    Arresting Agency
    Portland FBI
    Booking Date
    02/10/2016 10:54 PM
    Assigned Facility
    MCDC
    Projected Release Date
    Unknown
    Charges
    Click on each court case number to expand the display and see the charges.
    Court Case No. None
    DA Case No. None
    Citation No. None
    USM HOLD (U Unknown)
    Bail: $0
    Status: Unsentenced

  460. 460.

    Mj_Oregon

    @West of the Cascades:

    You beat me to it! Tomorrow should be very interesting to anyone following this story.

    Les Zaitz (@LesZaitz) from the Oregonian just tweeted that the charges stem from the 2014 standoff in Nevada. Finally?

  469. 469.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @sm*t cl*de:

    Off the Cisplatin and Gemzar regimen, now on my second Oxaliplatin and 5-FU treatment. Haven’t really lost my hair, only ever felt borderline queasy. Got the hearing lissues and the hives from Cisplatin, now getting mild cold sensitivity, tingling and a touch of neuropathy in the tips of my fingers and toes. I’m the smiling face of the chemo room when I’m there!

  472. 472.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @Ruckus:

    I was hoping that I’d have something so rare that they’d have to name it for me, then I remembered that these things are almost always named after the doctors who discover them. Kind of a rip-off, if you ask me. ;)

  473. 473.

    Aleta

    @Mj_Oregon: I suppose the four lone rangers might make this arrest an excuse to try out their negotiating skills again, or proof of FBI perfidy.

  476. 476.

    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again)

    @Aleta:

    It does nothing for me. It’s like recording a sporting event to which I already listened to on the radio. I know what’s coming. Call me jaded, I suppose.

  477. 477.

    Mj_Oregon

    @Aleta:

    My twitter feed is hinting that something is going on at the refuge right now. I’m not sure how much I can trust this guy and most of the good sources have gone silent about what’s happening out there right now. Gavin Saim’s audio feed isn’t running any longer so we have nothing live. I’m still hoping it’ll end without bloodshed but I’m not as optimistic as I was a few hours ago.

  478. 478.

    Mj_Oregon

    @Aleta:

    Ah. That person I referenced last was listening to a repeat of the four hour drama from earlier and was just making comment about it starting with one that said “something is happening out at the refuge right now.”

    OPB and Oregonian reporters are at the roadblocks and report that all is quiet there now. Maybe the Final Four really are sleeping and don’t know Cliven’s been arrested. Apparently Jason “Joker J” Blomgren, one of Cliven’s bodyguards, was also picked up too. I’m not clear if he was in Portland or stayed behind in Nevada.

  483. 483.

    Frank Wilhoit

    @Redshift: You have exactly missed my point. If Waco had been unwound in a timely and effective manner, rather than dragged out and botched, then McVeigh might have thought twice — perhaps even once. I for one have no doubt that he was emboldened by the astounding incompetence that the Federal authorities displayed at Waco.

    Again, it’s not about the perpetrators; it’s not about the hostages, if any; it’s about everybody else.

    Institutions that are obviously afraid to exercise their defined roles are worse than no institutions at all.

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