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You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Panic at the Shitshow (Open Thread)

Panic at the Shitshow (Open Thread)

by Betty Cracker|  February 25, 20164:38 pm| 184 Comments

This post is in: Domestic Politics, Open Threads, Politics, Republican Stupidity, Assholes

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I’ve found it amusing to watch conservative pundits pee down their legs as the window of opportunity for someone — anyone! — to please stop their Trumpenstein monster closes.

If I didn’t utterly despise the smarmy little shit-weasel, I’d almost feel sorry for Rubio, who couldn’t have been happy to receive this news while engaged in debate prep:

trump squashes rubio

Will Rubio sack up and go after Trump tonight? Or will he keep kicking Cruz in the junk? When Rubio recites tonight’s set of talking points, we’ll know if he’s serious about 2016 or just burnishing his cred for a future run.

But even if Rubio’s strategy is to go fetal in the presence of The Donald, who’s to say The Donald won’t decide to pick his teeth with Rubio’s bones anyway? I hope he does.

Anyway, I expect this next debate to be highly entertaining, but I have plans this evening and will have to miss it. Damn.

What are you up to this evening? Open thread!

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Reader Interactions

184Comments

  1. 1.

    elmo

    February 25, 2016 at 4:44 pm

    Not done with the fight downstairs yet. Damn but I get hot about the whole “drug dependency” and “doctor shopping” thing.

  2. 2.

    Jerzy Russian

    February 25, 2016 at 4:45 pm

    Will Rubio sack up and go after Trump tonight? Or will he keep kicking Cruz in the junk?

    I suppose it is too much to ask of him that he does both at once?

  3. 3.

    Chyron HR

    February 25, 2016 at 4:49 pm

    “And you want to be my latex salesman President.”

  4. 4.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 25, 2016 at 4:50 pm

    What am I up to? Probably will take a nap, as between the overnight thunder and the cat I was up much earlier than I’d like. Plus I just returned from the dermatologist’s — as an earlier biopsy categorized something as “severely atypical” they wanted to surgically remove the rest just in case. Not melanoma, but could have become such if left untreated. Anyway, pretty minor thing, but will probably ache when the local wears off.

  5. 5.

    El Caganer

    February 25, 2016 at 4:51 pm

    Young Marco’s not a very keen blade, but I think he’s got enough animal preservation instinct not to antagonize The Donald. If Christie knocked him down with a choice phrase or two, I can’t even imagine what Trump would do to him.

  6. 6.

    Calouste

    February 25, 2016 at 4:52 pm

    I wonder whether Rubio will even make it to the Florida primary. It’s not like he looks like he is going to sweep Super Tuesday. He might win one state, with Texas maybe going to Cruz, and Trump will win the rest. The only reason he could stay in is that the GOP establishment hates Cruz even more than Trump, and definitely doesn’t want Trump and Cruz to be the last two remaining candidates. But I doubt that Cruz is going to drop out before Rubio, he’s got enough cash and slightly better results. And his wife told him their god told them to run (even their god is so revolted by Cruz that he avoids talking to him).

  7. 7.

    FlipYrWhig

    February 25, 2016 at 4:52 pm

    Poochie Marco is a character on The Itchy & Scratchy Show The Republican Party Show. The network executives donor class decided that the show party needed an “update” to keep the interest of its audience, so they devised Poochie Marco, a cartoon dog candidate “with an attitude”.

  8. 8.

    Amir Khalid

    February 25, 2016 at 4:53 pm

    If I remember right, hasn’t Marco Bot been consistently trailing Donald in the Florida polls?

  9. 9.

    canuckistani

    February 25, 2016 at 4:53 pm

    I’ve read a lot of Carl Hiaasen and I get the idea the Florida was created for candidates like Trump.

  10. 10.

    Calouste

    February 25, 2016 at 4:54 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Rubio and Bush combined have been trailing Trump in Florida for most of the campaign.

  11. 11.

    pluege

    February 25, 2016 at 4:54 pm

    if rubio was smart (not saying he is) he’d be positioning himself as trump’s VP. Unlikely at this point that he could stop trump; he’s young; a VP win would position him for POTUS later and a loss with trump still let’s him run in 4 years and in 8 years. Accordingly, don’t look for him to go after trump. If the GOP is stuck with trump at this point, they at least want get some hits in on cruz.

  12. 12.

    cokane

    February 25, 2016 at 4:55 pm

    While libs shouldn’t totally underestimate Trump, I still hold his nomination is a major major gift to Democrats. It seriously puts the Senate in jeopardy of flipping — states like Ohio have vulnerable R Sens. up for reelection.

    TBH, the R establishment needs to just ask Rubio to drop out. He’s not catching fire. Their final great hope is Kasich.

  13. 13.

    p.a.

    February 25, 2016 at 4:58 pm

    I haven’t been following the R primaries closely except to enjoy the snark and buffonery, but looking at the ‘meta’ aspect, one thing I am sure of is the absolute lack of, for want of a better word, honor of the party machinery. They’re one step away from brownshirtism, so I have to wonder, where’s the oppo research on Trump? I’m not talking about pathetic efforts like NatReview. I’m talking Rovite/Atwater type smears we’ve all come to know and loathe. Can’t believe a schmuck like Trump doesn’t provide ammo.

  14. 14.

    Betty Cracker

    February 25, 2016 at 4:58 pm

    @elmo: I missed that thread and just took a look. My sympathies for your wife’s situation. A dear friend and neighbor has fibromyalgia and deals with the same bullshit. It’s maddening.

  15. 15.

    Patricia Kayden

    February 25, 2016 at 4:59 pm

    But whenever Rubio loses a primary, he gives a stump speech as if he had just won. Very strange.

    https://newrepublic.com/minutes/130242/marco-rubio-somehow-given-two-victory-speeches-election-cycle-despite-not-won-election

  16. 16.

    Elizabelle

    February 25, 2016 at 4:59 pm

    Couldn’t happen to a more revolting set of shits.

    Please, please, please let us have a Democratic sweep this November. And what does it say about this country (and its media) that a shitshow like that is still competitive?

    I am not sure Americans are that polarized. I think the plutocrats, intending oligarchs, and their media lapdogs want us to seem that way.

  17. 17.

    gogol's wife

    February 25, 2016 at 5:00 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Feel better!

    Last night sucked. Every time I got to sleep there’d be a big clap of thunder.

  18. 18.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 25, 2016 at 5:03 pm

    Will Rubio sack up and go after Trump tonight? Or will he keep kicking Cruz in the junk? When Rubio recites tonight’s set of talking points,

    My take is that Trump never really found a hook for Rubio, as I think an SNL vet said about Obama. The whole thirsty/sweaty thing never really seemed to take hold. But if Marco-Bot starts repeating itself again, Trump might pounce. I hate Rubio for making me root for Trump, however briefly.

    @FlipYrWhig: so he’s proactive?

  19. 19.

    Kay

    February 25, 2016 at 5:03 pm

    @cokane:

    I think they like Rubio best because he polls above 30 with Latinos and they’re just doggedly sticking with their post-loss theory of 2012 no matter what happens all around them :)

  20. 20.

    Bill

    February 25, 2016 at 5:03 pm

    Question: Will Trump winning the nomination cause Senate Republicans to shift their position on filling Scalia’s seat during the Obama administration? If the best case scenario for Mitch & Co. is a nominee from President Wild Card, would they rather deal with the moderate currently occupying the White House?

    Logically I think they’d seriously reconsider stonewalling Obama. But I’m guessing they just can’t stomach handing another win to a black man.

  21. 21.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 25, 2016 at 5:04 pm

    Well, last night I made some Ka’ak bil Simsim (Palestinian bread) and today I made some queso fresco, those along with some roma tomatoes that are a cut above cardboard will make pan bali** for my Mediterranean born wife, it’s her favorite quick and easy vegetarian meal.

    ** take a baguette, slice it in half and lay it open. drizzle olive oil on the bread, then rub the bread with tomato (or slice one and put it on the bread as I do) then cover it with cheese and pop it into the oven until the cheese begins to melt. My wife grew up eating them and I have to admit, they’re kind of addictive.

    this is my first time making it with queso fresco which does not “melt” so I’m interested to see how it comes out

  22. 22.

    FlipYrWhig

    February 25, 2016 at 5:05 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: TO THE EXTREME!

  23. 23.

    jl

    February 25, 2016 at 5:05 pm

    @cokane: All the GOP presidential contestants are very scary in the general, since > 45 percent of the general electorate will vote for a GOPer even if it is life-size cardboard cut-out photo with tape recorder playing insane reactionary memes taped to the back of it. So, any one of them is scary. But to extent that current polling showing that they are slightly more electable, Rubio and Kasich are scarier, even though they may not look it at a casual glance.

    A Trump nomination would be fun to the extent that it would blow huge gaping holes in a couple of GOP economic con games that have worked with their white dupes for decades: gutting social insurance and opposing any infrastructure spending that benefits ordinary people.

    What Trump would actually do if elected is entirely unpredictable, since He Himself has bragged that He is not bound by the shit He hears Himself saying, and his economic program is fiscally infeasible, where it is not a meaningless collection of simple minded slogans.

    But just wrecking those parts of the GOP con during the campaign is intolerable to the money bags, which is why a high class thug like Bloomberg is considering running if Trump is nominated.

  24. 24.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 25, 2016 at 5:07 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Or, what Josh Barro said

    Josh Barro ‏@ jbarro 8m8 minutes ago
    I do think it’s likely a Rubio hit on Trump won’t go well — because Trump will respond in a surprising way requiring unscripted response.
    Rubio’s best debate exchange– when he shut Jeb down for using a line his advisors gave him– worked because he could script it in advance.

    Rubio can’t swing at Trump

  25. 25.

    Brachiator

    February 25, 2016 at 5:07 pm

    @pluege:

    if rubio was smart (not saying he is) he’d be positioning himself as trump’s VP.

    Trump is such a wild card that he might not give a crap about Rubio or Cruz as potential running mates. The conventional political wisdom about a VP who brings a state or region to match the presidential candidate does not apply. But who knows?

    This whole thing is wild and crazy. But it would be an interesting sign that Baby Rubio wants to play nice if he does not attack Trump at all.

  26. 26.

    FlipYrWhig

    February 25, 2016 at 5:08 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: This is the scene I keep thinking must have happened at Republican Party HQ a few years back:

    MEYERS
    No, no, no! He was supposed to have attitude.

    SILVERMAN
    Um… wh-what do you mean, exactly?

    MEYERS
    Oh, you know, attitude, attitude! Uh… sunglasses!

    EXECUTIVE
    Can we put him in more of a “hip-hop” context?

    KRUSTY
    Forget context, he’s gotta be a surfer. Give me a nice shmear of surfer.

    EXECUTIVE
    I feel we should rasta-fy him by … ten percent or so.

    Silverman redraws Poochie. They’re still not totally satisfied.

    MEYERS
    Hmm… I think he needs a little more attitude.

    Silverman blackens in Poochie’s sunglasses.

    EXECUTIVE
    Oh yeah, bingo. There it is, right there!

  27. 27.

    NR

    February 25, 2016 at 5:08 pm

    @cokane: Kasich? The guy who just finished fifth in a four-man race? Somehow I doubt he’s going to make anything happen.

    I think the race will be over after March 15th. Trump is the nominee. And I also think most people will be surprised how fast the Republican establishment lines up to support him. He’ll have 90% of the party behind him inside a month and 100% within two. In fact, it’s already starting. The House Majority Leader just said that he could work with Trump.

    Dreams of Trump fracturing the GOP are just that. Dreams.

  28. 28.

    cokane

    February 25, 2016 at 5:09 pm

    @Kay: Rubio would be the best for the general, but the grand old white people’s party can’t seem to get behind the man. So Kasich is their man for now, imo. Not that they’ll understand this in time. Republican myopia and all.

  29. 29.

    Patricia Kayden

    February 25, 2016 at 5:09 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: Pan bali sounds like pizza. And quite delicious. Must try that one day.

    @Bill: They hate President Obama. I don’t see why they would be worried about a Trump SCOTUS nominee. I’m sure whoever he nominated would be as hardcore Rightwing as Scalia.

  30. 30.

    piratedan

    February 25, 2016 at 5:11 pm

    well, if the local pleas for cash are any indication, supposedly even John McCain is in for trouble in Arizona, where he’s not hateful enough for the wingnut elite. His likely opponent, Congresswoman Kirkpatrick, isn’t a shadow candidate like the last opponent and with the awesome messaging from the GOP this election year, I hear that voter registration among the native and Latino communities is doing well. Enough… who knows, but seriously, this really isn’t good news for John McCain.

  31. 31.

    cokane

    February 25, 2016 at 5:12 pm

    @jl: Sure, but Obama won in 2008 at about 45 to 52. And that’s considered by both poli sci academics and media horse race analysts as basically a blowout win. That’s about the score I’d expect in a Trump v Clinton or even Sanders. And it should be enough to flip the Senate depending on where Dems run up the score.

  32. 32.

    NR

    February 25, 2016 at 5:13 pm

    @Brachiator: Think about this for a minute. Trump would be the first person who’s never been elected to anything to win a major party’s nomination for President. The first. He’s not a conventional candidate and I doubt he’ll pick a conventional VP.

    I think Trump understands just how big an advantage his celebrity gives him, and he’s going to milk that for all it’s worth. I don’t know what he’s going to do with the convention, but it’s sure to be a spectacle. It won’t be the standard four days of boring speeches, that’s for sure.

  33. 33.

    eclare

    February 25, 2016 at 5:13 pm

    @Chyron HR: Hahaha…

  34. 34.

    trollhattan

    February 25, 2016 at 5:13 pm

    Can “smarmy little shit-weasels” become a topic category, pretty please?

  35. 35.

    Peale

    February 25, 2016 at 5:13 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Cruz does the same thing. They should just pull a trump and insult the voters of the stupid state that didn’t vote for them like he did in Iowa Caucus. That’s good fr a 5% increase in your share of the vote. Who couldanode? Or maybe it depends on the state.

  36. 36.

    jl

    February 25, 2016 at 5:13 pm

    @NR:

    ” Dreams of Trump fracturing the GOP are just that. Dreams. ”

    Probably correct, on the surface. Abject flunkies like the Anagram and McConnell will line up. They will have to in an attempt to avoid complete electoral disaster among the elected GOP flunkies. I am not sure what the money people will think, or what the flunkies will be saying in the quiet back rooms. My hunch is that they will not be pleased, since they like obedience and a sure bet.

  37. 37.

    Bill

    February 25, 2016 at 5:14 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I’m sure whoever he nominated would be as hardcore Rightwing as Scalia

    What do you base this on?

  38. 38.

    scav

    February 25, 2016 at 5:15 pm

    Suddenly feel the need for something mind-filling, jabby, pointed, potentially dangerous but vaguely constructive that can be combined with a solid dose of something other than politics. So, learning to needle felt while listening to some of the more obscure Shakespeare it is.

  39. 39.

    Nate Dawg

    February 25, 2016 at 5:15 pm

    @NR: He should pick Rosie O’Donnell for a Unity Ticket.

    The village would go NUTS for that.

  40. 40.

    cokane

    February 25, 2016 at 5:16 pm

    @NR: Meh, I wouldn’t be so sure. Trump’s nomination is going to be major baggage for guys like Sen. Portman in Ohio, a clear establishment Republican. Obviously the party would have to make noise that they can work with their nominee. But Trump is such a loose cannon that he’s bound to say something akin to Akin’s women’s bodies quote or Romney’s 47% or some such. The GOP rightfully knows he’s a huge liability as a candidate, even if they also know they’re going to have to grin and bear it.

  41. 41.

    raven

    February 25, 2016 at 5:16 pm

    Watching “The Eddie” live from Wiameha Bay.Clyde Aikau is 66 years old and is in the field. This is an invitational that they only have when the surf is 25+, It’s in honor of Eddie Aikau and worth a look.

  42. 42.

    jl

    February 25, 2016 at 5:17 pm

    @NR: Trump has signaled several times that he is going to ditch the oafish dick act if he gets the nomination. He will have to stretch his showmanship to cover for his lack of knowledge, experience, and his overestimation of his world historical genius. I think the ability of Trump to reinvent himself as a responsible person with judgment and gravitas for the typical general election voter is the great, and scary unknown if he is nominated.

  43. 43.

    trollhattan

    February 25, 2016 at 5:19 pm

    @NR:
    Haven’t actually allowed myself to envision Trump winning the nom, but think even he, his ego and his hair have consensus that he needs to select a doctrinaire politician for running mate. If he’s going on to the general he damn well knows he has to tack hard to gather anywhere near the votes needed to win, and slapping another bidnezman on the ticket doesn’t help one bit. Mind, I have to throw out my rulebook to consider any of this as possible.

  44. 44.

    pseudonymous in nc

    February 25, 2016 at 5:19 pm

    When Rubio recites tonight’s set of talking points, we’ll know if he’s serious about 2016 or just burnishing his cred for a future run.

    As Josh Marshall has pointed out, there’s not an obvious path forward now that he’s said the Senate is all kinds of poopy. Is he hoping to spend two years on the wingnut grift then run for governor? Because I’m not sure if the grifting circuit is as amenable to establishment types who fucked up, as opposed to crazy true believers.

  45. 45.

    Nate Dawg

    February 25, 2016 at 5:20 pm

    @El Caganer: So much for Trump to say. Call him a “bubble boy”. Mention “foam parties” in South Beach and high heels. Mention his personal finances being a wreck. Call him Sheldon Adelson’s puppet (maybe a little homophobia twisted in there). Basically just call him a pretty boy lightweight. Ruboitoy would crumble. Given how he already has a “whiff of the bathhouse about him”, his high-pitch squealing in response would just validate Trump’s point.

    Strong man will win this one.

  46. 46.

    Kay

    February 25, 2016 at 5:22 pm

    @cokane:

    I don’t know if Rubio would be best for the general. These criticisms of him are a kind of code for “he’s dumb”. That’s what “has to stick to a script” means :)

    I also don’t see him as authoritarian enough for Republicans, frankly. He doesn’t scream “strong leader”.

    Trump has really hurt them by taking up all the room. I don’t think anyone knows if Rubio is even a good candidate, but I guess “best” is a comparison, so maybe he is that.

  47. 47.

    NR

    February 25, 2016 at 5:22 pm

    @jl: Thing is, with Trump as the nominee, the money people become irrelevant. Trump doesn’t need their money. Jeb Bush spent $150 million. Trump spent about $2 million and destroyed him. A fact some people seem to miss is that not only has Trump wrecked the Republican establishment, he’s done it on the cheap.

    This is why Trump worries me for the general election. What happens when he comes out of a boffo convention with the party united behind him and finally starts spending real money, which he hasn’t up to this point? He’d definitely be a credible threat to win. In fact, I’m not so sure I wouldn’t consider him the favorite against Hillary at that point.

  48. 48.

    SteveinSC

    February 25, 2016 at 5:23 pm

    Other than the fun I’m having watching Republican cannibalism, I’m concerned enough that we might end up on the menu. We need to have back-up plans: Hillary gets indicted: Sanders or Biden or O’Malley’s got to be ready, to step in. We’re one candidate away from Hell and a defense-in-depth is best.

    I will have to say, though, we might not ever get Bush to the Hague to swing with Cheney, but the Repukes carefully built wall-papering/talking points of shrub’s excellent adventure being ripped to shreds by their own creature, D. von Frankentrump is Karma in spades. Oh, the exquisite irony of it all!

  49. 49.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    February 25, 2016 at 5:23 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: In other words Cheese and Tomato on Toast one of my favorite things to eat.

  50. 50.

    jl

    February 25, 2016 at 5:24 pm

    What the GOP ‘lining up’ behind Trump looks like:

    Near, Far, Wherever You Are

    ‘ Asked whether he’d endorse the billionaire businessman if nominated, Graham said, “I’ve got a ticket on the Titanic. So I am like on the team that bought a ticket on the Titanic after we saw the movie. This is what happens if you nominate Trump.” ‘

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/lindsey-graham-titanic-donald-trump

    And as I said before, the money people behind the GOP will not be pleased. And when I said ‘sure bet’ above, I didn’t mean winning or losing a particular election, since they play the very long game. I meant sure bet in helping push the GOP con game on to as a tool extract cash and destroy responsible public policy, and preserve its use for the next election. I think that is very important to the money people, almost a Prime Directive.

  51. 51.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 25, 2016 at 5:24 pm

    @Kay: a lot of GOPers have said publicly that HRC would chew Li’l Marco up and spit him out. Christie, just for starters. Someone below suggested that Christie might be willing to be Trump’s Veep. I’ve heard crazier talk.

  52. 52.

    jl

    February 25, 2016 at 5:26 pm

    @NR: OK, we agree there. Trump will use his own money for himself, not the GOP. Will the money masters decide that they need to back Trump and spend big, or just spend enough to try to preserve their reliable GOP flunkies, or maybe spend on state level offices instead. That is a big issue.

  53. 53.

    randy khan

    February 25, 2016 at 5:28 pm

    Since it’s an open thread, here’s Apple’s brief on why it shouldn’t have to rewrite the iPhone operating system just because the government couldn’t get its act together. (That’s the tl;dr version.) If you read nothing else, you should read the bit about how things might have turned out better if the FBI had bothered to read a FAQ on the Apple website or, you know, asked someone at Apple what to do.

    Don’t make us do it.

  54. 54.

    NR

    February 25, 2016 at 5:31 pm

    @cokane: Trump is risky for sure. No doubt about that. But look at what he’s done so far. He’s called people pussies, said that he could shoot someone in the street…. And he’s 3 for 4 in contests so far and looks to be poised to blow the race wide open on Super Tuesday. And again, he’s done all this on the cheap.

    Obviously no one is invincible, and Trump can probably be baited into saying some outlandish shit. But he’s a serious threat for sure.

  55. 55.

    FlipYrWhig

    February 25, 2016 at 5:32 pm

    @piratedan: After one of the recent Lindsey Graham snits I recently envisioned a scenario like so: Trump wins the nomination; “mainstream” Republicans pitch a fit and pull a Lisa Murkowski; decide to run a third-party Real Republican candidate who believes in what they believe in: strong defense, gov’t out of your business, cut waste, not a Bible-banger. And the guy I came up with, who’d have instant Beltway cred, was… John McCain.

  56. 56.

    satby

    February 25, 2016 at 5:32 pm

    I’ve barely been able to track on the outside world today. I haven’t been this sick in years. So I’m no help.

  57. 57.

    Nate Dawg

    February 25, 2016 at 5:33 pm

    @SteveinSC: Yes, exactly.

    I’ve been saying for a while that it is simply POOR PLANNING that Hillary was allowed to clear the field. God forbid anything happen to her, there is no single credible Democratic candidate ready to go. (Sorry, Berners, Sanders isn’t a Democrat.)

    Of course that riled people up here, but it was nice to see that Erik Loomis at Lawyers, Guns, & Money made the same point:

    If Republicans can demonize John Kerry as a traitor, they can do a lot worse to Bernie Sanders.

    None of this is to say that we should vote for Hillary. Truth be told, I wish we had different options. I’d vote for Kirsten Gillibrand, Deval Patrick, or even Al Franken in a heartbeat. None are as far left as Bernie, but they’d all push progressive policies and be, I think, effective candidates. Alas, they are not in the race, partly because Hillary cleared the field. And obviously if Bernie wins the nomination, I will support him in the general with the heat of a thousand suns.

    But I think the socialist label really very much will play terribly in the general election.

    And lo and behold, Paul Campos chimes in too:

    . . . [A]nd as Scott has pointed out, part of HRC’s evident strength as a candidate is that she discouraged what would have been more obviously serious challenges — Warren, Biden, Gillibrand — from materializing. But the fact that Sanders has turned out to be a very serious challenger for the nomination speaks volumes.

    In short, HRC is a paradigmatic establishment insider figure, which is not at all a good thing to be in a presidential campaign against GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump.

    This is *exactly* the reason Hillary’s clearing the field is not good for the party. We cannot change strategies, or candidates. We cannot adjust to the new reality of the Trump candidacy. We have no options, and have to stick with our only candidate.

    It sucks, and while I hope and pray for Hillary to win, if she doesn’t, I’ll be squarely in the “I Told You So” camp regarding how her personal ambition *always* comes before the party.

  58. 58.

    beltane

    February 25, 2016 at 5:34 pm

    Maybe it’s just me, but Rubio has always seemed extremely overrated as a candidate. It’s probably not a coincidence that the candidate dominating the Republican field happens to be the only one who is capable of speaking off the cuff.

  59. 59.

    Kay

    February 25, 2016 at 5:36 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I think Clinton would be very tough for him to debate. She can sound scripted but I think that’s more familiarity with the questions and material than coaching. When she’s asked a question where she has to explain or elaborate she really knows this stuff- she answers in complicated paragraphs. How does he explain running away from the immigration deal, which is his single achievement? That’s so cowardly and self-serving it’s jeer-worthy.

  60. 60.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 25, 2016 at 5:36 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: Bloomberg, but I can’t imagine he’d descend from his penthouse to even nominally campaign. Huntsman’s too boring to take on Trump. Ryan, but he didn’t even want to be Speaker, I don’t think he’d sacrifice himself on this altar. I think Paulie Blue Eyes is waiting for someone else to spread their blood on the waters. Gingrich would want it, but I think his moment has passed.
    I’m drawing a blank trying to think of someone who could be more than a blip but would be willing to fall on his/her face for the good of… something.

  61. 61.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 25, 2016 at 5:38 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: with olive oil, don’t forget the olive oil.

  62. 62.

    beltane

    February 25, 2016 at 5:39 pm

    @Nate Dawg: I agree with you. Clearing the primary field is risky in a country where Team Red is guaranteed to win at least 47% of the vote. Democratic leaning voters have a habit of becoming non-voters when it comes to the matter of “preventative voting”.

  63. 63.

    Origuy

    February 25, 2016 at 5:40 pm

    @NR:

    Trump would be the first person who’s never been elected to anything to win a major party’s nomination for President.

    Dwight Eisenhower, Zachary Taylor, and U. S. Grant rise to object. Generals certainly have to be politicians, but those three were never elected before becoming president.

  64. 64.

    NR

    February 25, 2016 at 5:40 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: Never gonna happen. Once Trump locks up the nomination, the parry will line up behind him. It’s what they always do. The establishment is already starting to crack. The House Majority Leader just said he could work with the guy.

  65. 65.

    Gimlet

    February 25, 2016 at 5:41 pm

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/02/trump-wont-bring-our-jobs-back-from-his-hotels.html

    “No one will bring our jobs back from China and Mexico like Trump,” Donald Trump recently wrote, in a Facebook post. The GOP front-runner’s commitment to restoring employment opportunities that Americans have lost to developing countries is one of the cornerstones of his candidacy.

    Since 2010, nearly 300 United States residents have applied for jobs at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach, but only 17 were hired. Meanwhile, Trump pursued more than 500 visas for foreign workers at the resort, the New York Times reports.

  66. 66.

    NR

    February 25, 2016 at 5:42 pm

    @Origuy: Fair point. Take military out of the equation and the point stands, though.

  67. 67.

    Mike in NC

    February 25, 2016 at 5:42 pm

    Looks as if Trump has practically got this thing in the bag, much to the chagrin of the national press, who were chomping at the bit to designate Lil Marco a “new type of Republican”, though nothing could be further than the truth. He’s as dangerous and delusional as the rest of the klown kar’s crypto-fascists.

  68. 68.

    Hungry Joe

    February 25, 2016 at 5:44 pm

    The GOP, from the elite to the wingnuttiest, will get behind Trump if they have to. Remember all the fundies who weren’t going to vote for Romney because he’s a Mormon? Right; en masse they decided to forget in order to defeat Obama.

    Did anyone — ANYONE — take Trump seriously when he glided down that escalator? I don’t think so, and I don’t think anyone has the slightest idea what’s going to happen next; educated guesses are no better than uneducated guesses, which are good for nothing at all. It’s like William Goldman’s quote about Hollywood: “No one knows anything.”

    My own history of GOP ’16 ticket guesses/predictions goes, if memory serves (which it doesn’t very well anymore), something like this: 1) Bush/Walker; 2) Walker/Rubio 3) Bush/Kasich 4) Rubio/Kasich; 5) Cruz/?; 6) Trump/? — the “?” because even fantasizing I can’t come up with anybody who’d sidekick for either of those vile, putrescent toads.

  69. 69.

    p.a.

    February 25, 2016 at 5:44 pm

    @Origuy: IIRC the Dems tried to recruit Ike.

  70. 70.

    Comrade Mary

    February 25, 2016 at 5:45 pm

    Heh.

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) announced Thursday that they plan to meet with President Barack Obama Tuesday to discuss the Supreme Court vacancy.

    An array of Republicans have pushed back on the thought of Obama nominating a replacement for Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, who died earlier this month at age 79.

    “On Tuesday we will meet with the President at the White House. We look forward to reiterating to him directly that the American people will be heard and the next Supreme Court justice will be determined once the elections are complete and the next President has been sworn into office,” McConnell and Grassley said in a joint statement. “And we welcome the opportunity to further discuss matters of mutual interest, like the drug epidemic that’s tearing communities apart across our country.”

  71. 71.

    beltane

    February 25, 2016 at 5:45 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Republican base voters hate Michael Bloomberg every bit as much as they hate Obama or the Clintons. A socially liberal, fiscally conservative, gun control supporting, billionaire will receive zero GOP votes outside the Beltway. It would be like trying to sell Zell Miller to the Democratic base.

  72. 72.

    Brachiator

    February 25, 2016 at 5:46 pm

    @NR:

    I think Trump understands just how big an advantage his celebrity gives him, and he’s going to milk that for all it’s worth. I don’t know what he’s going to do with the convention, but it’s sure to be a spectacle. It won’t be the standard four days of boring speeches, that’s for sure.

    A new reality show, VP Apprentice?

    Celebrities and politicians could compete for the right to be Trump’s running mate, and win fabulous prizes.

    The crazy thing is that I think that Trump has a shot at winning the whole deal, the presidency, not just the GOP nomination. There is no easy way to measure the Trump phenomenon.

  73. 73.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 25, 2016 at 5:47 pm

    @NR:

    But he’s a serious threat for sure.

    To whom? The thing you have to remember is that John McCain also won the GOP nomination, same for Romney and Bush. And of the 4 elections those 3 ran in, how many did they win? It’s one thing to win the GOP nomination, it is quite another to win the general election. And I am not saying Trump couldn’t do it, just that I haven’t seen any aardvarks or platypuses on the Dem side.

  74. 74.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 25, 2016 at 5:49 pm

    @beltane: I agree Bloomaparte’s a disaster, but he’s part of a fantasy (mostly his own and of people he pays to tell him he’s tall and handsome and deserves to be President) where he splits the vote three ways and wins the northeast, midwest and California and Florida

  75. 75.

    beltane

    February 25, 2016 at 5:52 pm

    The thing that frightens me about Trump is his ability to speak the language of stupid people. He’s like a more quick-witted W. Lets hope there aren’t many stupid people out there.

  76. 76.

    Chris

    February 25, 2016 at 5:52 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    Looks as if Trump has practically got this thing in the bag, much to the chagrin of the national press, who were chomping at the bit to designate Lil Marco a “new type of Republican”

    I’m looking forward to watching them all twist themselves into pretzels come the general election to switch from their current freakout mode about Trump to the usual “both sides do it, but Democrats are worse,” especially if Hillary’s the nominee.

  77. 77.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 25, 2016 at 5:54 pm

    @beltane: What gets me is he’s so brazen in his contempt for his voters (“that’s the one you like, right?…. how stupid are the people of Iowa…. I love the poorly educated!”) and they either don’t get it or don’t care.

  78. 78.

    Hildebrand

    February 25, 2016 at 5:57 pm

    Interestingly enough, Trump’s biggest problem may come from the hard-core right wing. My sister, a new convert to the Mark Levin/Glenn Beck end of the spectrum, posts every last anti-Trump thing imaginable. They are hitting levels of viciousness usually reserved only for Obama. Not sure what that whole class of folks will do, but my sister has already stated she will sit out the general if ‘that man’ is the nominee.

  79. 79.

    NR

    February 25, 2016 at 5:57 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: I think people here are really overconfident. Obama won by 4% in 2012. 4%. And that was with an amazing candidate running an amazing campaign as an incumbent against the candidate they expected and had four years to prepare for.

    Hillary has none of those things going for her.

  80. 80.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 25, 2016 at 5:58 pm

    Joseph Weisenthal
    ‏@ TheStalwart
    Among GOP primary voters in the south, Donald Trump has higher favorability than The Pope

    The Pope does beat out Bloomberg, Katich, the Democratic Party and…. the Tea Party

  81. 81.

    Ben Cisco

    February 25, 2016 at 6:00 pm

    @Comrade Mary:

    “And we welcome the opportunity to further discuss matters of mutual interest, like the drug epidemic that’s tearing communities apart across our country.”

    Yeah, that spin might work on their base. I’m betting they get pantsed. AGAIN.

    Didn’t they say right off the bat that they wouldn’t even meet with him? That line in the sand keeps moving…

  82. 82.

    beltane

    February 25, 2016 at 6:00 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I suspect his supporters feel he’s not addressing them personally, but is instead addressing the person sitting next to them, or all those other idiots out there they have to contend with on a daily basis. They themselves are never the idiots Trump is referring to.

  83. 83.

    Redshift

    February 25, 2016 at 6:00 pm

    @beltane:

    Maybe it’s just me, but Rubio has always seemed extremely overrated as a candidate.

    Yeah, he’s kind of the “deep bench” embodied in one person. Quantity does not equal quality.

    He also embodies the GOP’s delusion that people will tribally vote for someone based on their identity, and pay no attention to their support for Republican policies that are terrible for people who share that identity but aren’t rich Republicans. He’s young! (Or seems young if you’re an old white guy.) He’s ethnic Latino! It’s the Palin strategy redux.

  84. 84.

    Tom Q

    February 25, 2016 at 6:00 pm

    Ok, two things:

    Whoever above said that Trump is the first presidebtial nominee who was never elected to anything apparently never heard of Dwight Eisenhower. And I believe Wendell Willkie, too — and General Grant, as well?

    This often-bandied “any Republican will get 45-47 percent just on principle” — Stan Greenberg, who knows more about polling and the electorate than everyone on this site combined, says that the Dem-leaning electorate is set to explode this year. He had it measured at about 51 percent in 2012, but thinks it could go over 60 this year (from a combination of old GOPers dying, young voters from 2008/12 getting older/more regular as voters, and the continuing un-whitening of the younger generation).

    Of course you don’t want to take anything for granted, but getting into a tizzy over Trump is just the kind of thing worry-wart Dems are always doing to themselves. Barring a sudden and massive recession, I say Hillary wallops Trump, very possibly by a greater than Obama ’08 margin.

  85. 85.

    NR

    February 25, 2016 at 6:01 pm

    @Hildebrand: And once Trump locks up the nomination, they’ll all be singing his praises and attacking Hillary nonstop. Wanna bet as to how long it’ll take? My money is on a month. Do you want to take the over or the under?

  86. 86.

    randy khan

    February 25, 2016 at 6:02 pm

    @Nate Dawg:

    The argument on HRC clearing the field interests me because really what happened is not that she somehow barred other candidates from running, but that they chose not to run because they didn’t think they could beat her or because (in, say, Warren’s case) they didn’t want to run.

    Besides, outside of Warren, exactly zero of the potential other opponents would have been much less in the way of an establishment candidate. Biden has been in Washington since he was 16 (metaphorically), Gillibrand is a Senator in her 2nd term who was in the House before that, etc., etc.

    My take is that in some ways HRC is the candidate best suited to deal with Trump. She’s not going to get flustered and she’s pretty good with a shiv. Trump’s largely been dealing with amateurs on the Republican side because the Republican primary voters are insane and won’t support someone who actually is a serious politician; that’s the last word you’d use to describe her. But YMMV, and I certainly could be wrong about how it will play out.

  87. 87.

    beltane

    February 25, 2016 at 6:02 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Why would the Pope have high favorability ratings in the overwhelmingly Protestant, largely Evangelical South? Our media puppets sure know how to ask stupid questions.

  88. 88.

    Ben Cisco

    February 25, 2016 at 6:03 pm

    @Gimlet: Those jobs were gone for good the second they left. NOBODY is bringing them back.

  89. 89.

    benw

    February 25, 2016 at 6:04 pm

    @raven: Nice, thanks. You a surfer?

  90. 90.

    Baud

    February 25, 2016 at 6:04 pm

    @randy khan: This is a pet peeve of mine also — the notion that Hillary is responsible for what other potential contenders do.

  91. 91.

    Nate Dawg

    February 25, 2016 at 6:05 pm

    @randy khan: I’ll never understand why Republicans don’t start singing mud at him. Hell, he practically is made of mud. Not shortage of material. St. Ronnies 11th commandment is really fucking stupid.

  92. 92.

    NR

    February 25, 2016 at 6:05 pm

    @Tom Q: We can’t count on demographics to save us. Yes, Hispanics hate Trump and will probably turn out in greater numbers than they did in 2012. But I think our share of the white vote is going to decline even further. Trump could cracking 70% with non college-educated whites. If that happens, Iowa and Ohio are lost, and we’ll have to fight like hell just to hold on to Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan.

    And that’s going to be particularly tough territory for Hillary. Lots of working-class folks in those states still remember NAFTA.

  93. 93.

    WaterGirl

    February 25, 2016 at 6:07 pm

    @Comrade Mary: Reading that excerpt reminded me of the meeting with Obama where the republicans came in quite arrogant and one of them was so proud that they had the whole bill printed out (was it the ACA?) and President Obama schooled the shit out of them.

    I am hoping for a repeat of that interaction.

    Can’t recall which article it was, but my takeaway from something I read this week was that if the republicans obstinately stand their ground and continue to swear that they will do absolutely nothing, they look like obstructionist assholes. But the second they open that door even just a crack, they look like idiots and obstructionist assholes… an even worse combination.

  94. 94.

    randy khan

    February 25, 2016 at 6:08 pm

    @NR:

    4% sounds close, but that was a margin of 5 million votes.

    One thing HRC or Bernie will have that will help is Barack Obama on the campaign trail for the nominee. That’s going to be a big help with important Democratic constituencies.

  95. 95.

    Redshift

    February 25, 2016 at 6:09 pm

    @Nate Dawg:

    I’ve been saying for a while that it is simply POOR PLANNING that Hillary was allowed to clear the field. God forbid anything happen to her, there is no single credible Democratic candidate ready to go.

    You mean if anything were to happen to her in the next couple of months, by which point the field would almost certainly be “cleared” no matter who was running? Sorry, that’s some weak-ass concern trolling. If there was a time to be concerned about “clearing the field” being bad for the Dems, it has passed.

  96. 96.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    February 25, 2016 at 6:09 pm

    @NR:

    We can’t count on demographics to save us.

    Maybe not waiting for a younger and more diverse electorate; we can count on a slightly more liberal electorate due to the silents starting to age out(aka die) of the electorate.

  97. 97.

    Sicilian Dish

    February 25, 2016 at 6:10 pm

    Weird how many people are amazed that Rubio isn’t winning, and nobody can give a single reason why he should be.

  98. 98.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    February 25, 2016 at 6:10 pm

    @Baud: Yeah, I call bullshit on that theory as well.

  99. 99.

    raven

    February 25, 2016 at 6:10 pm

    @benw: I can’t lay claim to that. I grew up in the late 50’s early 60’s in LA. We spent as much time as we could at Huntington body surfing or riding canvas mats that were rented. Later I moved up to boogie boards and have surfed them mostly at Manhattan and once in the islands. All of that being said, I consider a surfer someone who rides a stand-up board and I’ll go to my grave regretting that I am not. I did manage to get in a few at Huntington this fall!

  100. 100.

    Tom Q

    February 25, 2016 at 6:11 pm

    @NR: Gopers concluded after 2012 that there was simply no more maximizing the white vote — that if they couldn’t improve their share of the Hispanic vote, they’d be very unlikely to win a national election again, and their odds would deteriorate every year. Now you’re arguing that they can lose More of the Hispanic vote (and I daresay their share of the Muslim vote will take a blast, as well), and somehow offset that with more and more whites? You’re seeing something no political scientists are seeing.

    And, i have to say based on reading you for some time, you see it through the eyes if someone who loathes Hillary, so I’ll take your doom-saying with a large grain of salt.

  101. 101.

    Chris

    February 25, 2016 at 6:12 pm

    @Hildebrand:

    Your sister sounds like my uncle. There’s a fair amount of GOP voters who loathe Trump with the heat of ten thousand burning suns. Then again, Romney and McCain weren’t that popular either. The Republican Party’s obsession with ideological purity has hit the point where I don’t think there’s anybody who could be front-runner without instantly provoking a Judean People’s Front/People’s Front of Judea style frenzy.

    It makes a nice retroactive justification, though: any Republican candidate who loses, they’ll all nod sagely and agree that the reason he lost was that he Wasn’t A Real Conservative, and any Republican who wins but fucks up while in office, they can do the same.

  102. 102.

    Gimlet

    February 25, 2016 at 6:12 pm

    @Ben Cisco:

    The article referenced Trump’s request for special Visas to bring in foreigners to do unskilled jobs that Americans were qualified for. And to point out the hypocrisy in Trump’s stated fervor to help Americans get jobs.

  103. 103.

    Baud

    February 25, 2016 at 6:13 pm

    @Tom Q: My view is that any election is loseable, and we should act accordingly.

  104. 104.

    Roger Moore

    February 25, 2016 at 6:14 pm

    @jl:

    A Trump nomination would be fun to the extent that it would blow huge gaping holes in a couple of GOP economic con games that have worked with their white dupes for decades: gutting social insurance and opposing any infrastructure spending that benefits ordinary people.

    It would have the serious drawback that Republicans can easily disavow him as a RINO if/when he loses. I really want the Republicans to lose badly with a True Conservative® at the top of the ticket so they have to admit that Conservatism has failed rather than been failed by yet another squish.

  105. 105.

    Johnnybuck

    February 25, 2016 at 6:16 pm

    @Baud: Hillary is responsible for everything don’t you know? She made Bill sign DOMA, welfare reform. She made Bush invade Iraq. The list goes on…

  106. 106.

    Redshift

    February 25, 2016 at 6:18 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    I really want the Republicans to lose badly with a True Conservative® at the top of the ticket so they have to admit that Conservatism has failed rather than been failed by yet another squish.

    Yeah, but it never happens, because losing automatically means they weren’t a True Conservative.

  107. 107.

    debbie

    February 25, 2016 at 6:18 pm

    @Hildebrand:

    I listened to Mr. Beck this morning. He now hates everyone except Cruz. He was practically in hysterics trying to get his listeners to get behind Ted. If I believed in prayer, I’d pray that Cruz, Rubio, and Kasich all have horrible, horrible nights tonight.

  108. 108.

    Docg

    February 25, 2016 at 6:19 pm

    @NR: What had Eisenhower been elected to before President?

  109. 109.

    Baud

    February 25, 2016 at 6:19 pm

    @Johnnybuck: I find it very presidential. The transition from “I blame Obama” to “I blame Hillary” will be a smooth one.

    I can sympathize with people who wish we had more than three candidates in the race, but not with people who say Hillary did something blameworthy in that regard.

  110. 110.

    Chris

    February 25, 2016 at 6:19 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    Like I said above, I don’t think there’s a single candidate that they wouldn’t disavow as Not A Real Conservative the second he lost the election.

  111. 111.

    Elizabelle

    February 25, 2016 at 6:20 pm

    @NR: I get that you’re nervous. But Jeebus, could you lighten up, Francis?

    All the gloom and doom is depressing. I am really starting to avoid this blog.

    It’s enervating, and is that really what you want to do to your allies?

  112. 112.

    Patricia Kayden

    February 25, 2016 at 6:20 pm

    @NR: Fear of a Republican President should be enough to get Democratic voters off their butts. You’re underestimating our terror of what a Republican President would do to this country — especially for minority voters. You already have all of the Republican candidates on record saying that they will appoint SCOTUS Justices to overthrow marriage equality. And it’s pretty obvious how they feel about racial minorities and Muslims.

  113. 113.

    Baud

    February 25, 2016 at 6:20 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    I am really starting to avoid this blog.

    NOOOOOOOO!!! You’re one of the GOOD ones.

  114. 114.

    NR

    February 25, 2016 at 6:21 pm

    @Tom Q: Again, Obama won by 4% in 2012, and that was with record turnout from black voters that Hillary probably won’t get.

    If black turnout drips to 2004 levels, Trump only needs to pick up a few points among white voters to win the election.

  115. 115.

    MomSense

    February 25, 2016 at 6:21 pm

    The thunderstorms were wild last night. It was over 50 degrees today so I did a lot of walking outside. I just came back from a walk with the dog that was really pleasant – until flopsy and mopsy hopped over to us. The hunting instinct is strong with my dog. Just got home and heard from my kid that a big tree came down at school and landed on a bunch of cars in one of the student lots. Guess not having a car worked in his favor this time.

    I haven’t decided if I am going to subject myself to the hate parade tonight or not yet. The only good thing might be seeing what Trumpenstein does to Cruz and rube rube Rubio.

  116. 116.

    Redshift

    February 25, 2016 at 6:21 pm

    @Baud:

    My view is that any election is loseable, and we should act accordingly.

    Yes, as I set it, we have some definite advantages we can capitalize on as long as everybody works hard. Always campaign like you’re ten points behind. Not to mention that against the GOP, we always need to have a win that’s outside of the margin of cheating.

  117. 117.

    NR

    February 25, 2016 at 6:22 pm

    @Elizabelle: I want people to take Trump seriously as a threat. We need to stop laughing at him and stop acting like he can’t possibly win the general.

  118. 118.

    Tom Q

    February 25, 2016 at 6:23 pm

    @Baud: people stayed out of the race because they decided they couldn’t beat Hillary. The same way people stayed out in 2000 because Gore was such an obvious heir-apparent. The way some seem to turn that into some evil act is fairly typical of the way Hillary’s every step is dissected for negarious intent — in the press and on the right of course, but sadly even among Dems who ought to know better.

  119. 119.

    jl

    February 25, 2016 at 6:23 pm

    @Roger Moore: I may be wrong, but I think Trump would be the first RINO based on overtly and loudly yelled positions on social insurance and government role (infrastructure and opposition to gimmicky and falsely labeled ‘free trade’ agreements) in creating jobs.

    I think your hope will be in vain, even if you can make it into the next century. No one who loses will be a True Conservative, by definition, a loser is not a True Conservative. And I doubt anyone can be True Conservative after their term is over, unless they can match the legendary heroic feats of the Zombie Godhead Reagan Deity (which they won’t).

  120. 120.

    Roger Moore

    February 25, 2016 at 6:25 pm

    @NR:

    Take military out of the equation and the point stands, though.

    Hoover. The only office he held before running for president was Secretary of Commerce.

  121. 121.

    debbie

    February 25, 2016 at 6:25 pm

    @NR:

    What is your evidence that people who have influence with the Clinton and Sanders campaigns are not taking Trump seriously? I can’t imagine why it matters what we schlubs think.

  122. 122.

    Turgidson

    February 25, 2016 at 6:27 pm

    @beltane:

    The only person who might vote for Bloomberg other than himself and presumably his family is Ron “Severe Dementia” Fournier. Maybe Morning Joey Joe-Joe-Junior Scarborough if Trump insults him one time too many. Mayyyybe David f’ing Brooks. Basically just East Coast fake centrist Republican water carriers for the rich.

  123. 123.

    MomSense

    February 25, 2016 at 6:27 pm

    @NR:

    If black turnout… If black turnout… If black turnout….

    Your concern is noted. Really, we all get your concern. The Obama coalition will be there to protect the change we won. Our President is going to campaign for us like his name is on the ballot.

    It is going to be a foreign policy election and Sanders is barely conversant. We lose a big advantage if he is the nominee. He is much better suited to his role as amendment king in the Senate.

  124. 124.

    Tom Q

    February 25, 2016 at 6:27 pm

    @NR: Wrong — because the number of white voters has declined, and the number of Hispanic voters has increased. It would take significant gains in the white vote for any GOPer to win, and, despite all the pearl-clutching, I don’t see Trump being the guy to do that. In fact, I think there are (still) some good-government white Republicans who’ll not vote for Trump because he’s utterly unqualified for office. My sister-in-law, one of them, has already told me in no uncertain terms that Hillary is her choice this year.

    There’s a reason why Trump has 59 percent disapproval numbers.

  125. 125.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 25, 2016 at 6:27 pm

    @Elizabelle: s/he is the emoest of the Emo Progs, or at least high up in the ranks

  126. 126.

    benw

    February 25, 2016 at 6:28 pm

    @raven: No regrets, man. Nice pic. The seagull watching you in the corner is perfect.

    I grew up in San Diego and went from Boogie boards to stand up around 13 years old. I’ve been surfing ever since. But what I’ve done compared to these big waves guys is like a paper airplane compared to a F-14.

  127. 127.

    MomSense

    February 25, 2016 at 6:29 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    I’ve found a glass of red wine helps.
    Cheers!

  128. 128.

    les

    February 25, 2016 at 6:31 pm

    @trollhattan:

    Haven’t actually allowed myself to envision Trump winning the nom, but think even he, his ego and his hair have consensus that he needs to select a doctrinaire politician for running mate.

    So. Sarah, then? She’s about as doctrinaire as it gets for the Trump crowd.

  129. 129.

    Kay

    February 25, 2016 at 6:32 pm

    @NR:

    I agree with a lot of your concerns- I think Democrats ignore economic anxiety in places like Ohio and Michigan at their peril – but I think you’re underestimating how hard it is to get people who don’t vote regularly out to vote. My precinct has the highest turnout in the county and it’s just a different world than an east side precinct here with lower incomes and lower turnout. We had to get them out for a school levy here and it took 4 passes, door to door. They wanted the new school. They benefit most from the new school. We were still begging them to vote at 5:30 on election night.

    Raising turnout is just not something to rely on to win. It’s a grinding, door to door slog and it’s a big country. He has to hold the whole GOP base and cut into Clinton’s share of white working class and the white working class who vote for Democrats are Democrats. They voted for Obama. That’s where that 36% number comes from- it describes what they did. They’re not swing voters.

  130. 130.

    MomSense

    February 25, 2016 at 6:34 pm

    @satby:

    Oh no! I hope you feel better. There are some nasty bugs going around.

  131. 131.

    raven

    February 25, 2016 at 6:34 pm

    @benw: Aw great! We lived in Whittier and my old man was stationed at Coranado during the summer. In those days 101 was the only way down there and you went in front of Santa Anita and then up to Torre Pines. The big wave riders are a breed apart but doing it at all is great! One Sunday some years back we were visiting and hit the Manhattan Beach Pier early and saw this.

    How did you end up a Tech fan?

  132. 132.

    NR

    February 25, 2016 at 6:34 pm

    @MomSense:

    It is going to be a foreign policy election

    I dearly, dearly hope that no one who shares your opinion is anywhere close to either of the Democratic candidates.

  133. 133.

    Steve in the ATL

    February 25, 2016 at 6:35 pm

    @MomSense: I’ve found a bottle of red wine helps.
    Cheers!

  134. 134.

    Turgidson

    February 25, 2016 at 6:36 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    The GOP is still butthurt about that meeting. Cantor was the asshat who printed out the bill and tried to use it as a prop to land a zinger on Obama and he called him out on it before he got the chance . IIRC, that’s also the meeting where Obama uttered the infamous two words “I won”, which GOP hacks to this day quote to argue that Obama never tried to work across party lines and was always divisive. It’s pretty much all they have, but they flog the shit out of it.

  135. 135.

    Chris

    February 25, 2016 at 6:36 pm

    @jl:

    I think your hope will be in vain, even if you can make it into the next century. No one who loses will be a True Conservative, by definition, a loser is not a True Conservative. And I doubt anyone can be True Conservative after their term is over, unless they can match the legendary heroic feats of the Zombie Godhead Reagan Deity (which they won’t).

    Part of the problem is that the party’s endless drift rightward means the goalposts keep changing, in a way no politician could possibly keep up with. In Nixon’s day, it wasn’t a dealbreaker to be okay with universal health care, or at least to consider the plans your Congress came up with. In Reagan’s day, it wasn’t a dealbreaker to sit down and negotiate with enemy governments. In Bush’s day, it wasn’t a dealbreaker to reach out to the Hispanic community… etc.

    Another problem is that the purity they demand is so frankly ludicrously out-there that no one’s ever going to go along with all of it; that level of “drown government in the bathtub” isn’t possible, because not only will too many businessmen be against it, too many voters, even within the conservative movement, will as well. (IIRC, last time Bush was looking into Social Security privatization, the maps showed that the South was, if anything, slightly more opposed to the plan than the rest of the country).

    Yet another problem is that no one can give a coherent definition of “real conservatism” anymore – it’s all about who can best light up the tribal centers of your brain. Conservatives can give some talking points about Donald Trump’s big-government attributes and claim he’s really a liberal, but it’s a little harder to explain why Sarah Palin, the starlet of the movement that they’ve all been promoting as the epitome of Real Conservative for the last eight years, enthusiastically endorsed him. (Most of the voters, of course, will follow Palin’s lead and not the “but but big government!” killjoys. They both broadcast the bigot message loud and clear).

  136. 136.

    raven

    February 25, 2016 at 6:37 pm

    @Chris: Life is a motherfucker isn’t it?

  137. 137.

    MomSense

    February 25, 2016 at 6:38 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Ha!

  138. 138.

    Johnnybuck

    February 25, 2016 at 6:39 pm

    @Tom Q: Well, after 25 years of Right Wing talking points regurgitated by the media on a daily basis, some people are bound to internalize some of it. I think it’s important to work (and vote) like the election can be lost without freaking out about it. People need to get a grip.

  139. 139.

    MomSense

    February 25, 2016 at 6:41 pm

    @NR:

    Oh my word. I recommend you do some phonebanking. Right now your fears are speculative. There is nothing like voter contact for clarifying the challenges.

  140. 140.

    Elizabelle

    February 25, 2016 at 6:43 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Thank you.

    I am starting to think “Coconut Cream Pie.”

    With a chaser of red wine, as MomSense wisely suggests. (Malbec does not go with pie, regrettably …)

  141. 141.

    les

    February 25, 2016 at 6:43 pm

    @NR: I want people to take Trump seriously as a threat. We need to stop laughing at him and stop acting like he can’t possibly win the general.

    Mission accomplished. The only one here convinced that a candidate can’t win is you, and the candidate is Clinton. Obsessive compulsive one note singer, or troll? Getting hard to tell.

  142. 142.

    boatboy_srq

    February 25, 2016 at 6:45 pm

    @NR:

    [W]ith Trump as the nominee, the money people become irrelevant. Trump doesn’t need their money. Jeb Bush spent $150 million. Trump spent about $2 million and destroyed him. A fact some people seem to miss is that not only has Trump wrecked the Republican establishment, he’s done it on the cheap.

    Very good point: Trump has trounced the Establishment and it’s cost him pennies (in no small part due to all the shocked/fawning MSM coverage, which Trump long ago learned how to use to his advantage). Which in turn begs the question of how much maintaining the status quo is costing the Establishment (in both wealth and sentiment), and how much of that expense is actually productive, if so little can upset their narrative so easily.

    It’s possible that much of the GOTea money/support among the lower 99% is shifting to Trump now that they’ve seen how little 1%er support has actually yielded. What Dems need now is a way to cash in on that disillisionment without compromising significantly on policies and principles.

    I’m not so worried about Trump in the general. Unless he changes tack significantly, and unless he loudly repudiates all the racist groups’ support, he’s putting off a lot of less-extreme types. Now if we could just use Trumpophobia to galvanize libprog voters…

  143. 143.

    John Revolta

    February 25, 2016 at 6:45 pm

    @les: I’m pretty sure Sarah blew the audition a couple of weeks ago.

  144. 144.

    MomSense

    February 25, 2016 at 6:45 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    As long as you have something salty in between you will be fine.

  145. 145.

    bupalos

    February 25, 2016 at 6:46 pm

    I seriously don’t want to start anything, I have a slight preference for Hillary overall mostly on the Krugman theory, but I would like to hear how folks think the Clinton Foundation stuff is going to play. Trump has like 3 points: Imgrints take the jorbs, let’s shoot people with pig-blood bullets, and politicians are all bought and paid for and stealing from you, trust me I know. That last one lines up pretty well with this Clinton Foundation slinging around wheelbarrows full of cash and not spending much on actual charity. How does she play defense here?

    My best thought is try to play it down and turn it around the same way Trump does. Basically a (very) cleaned up versions of “yeah, maybe I have to do some things now and again, but it’s just because like Trump and his bribes, it’s how I have to fight in this dirty system, I’m a fighter, I fight for you, he fights to shoot you with pig-blood bullets, etc.”

    I dunno. It’s going to be the ventilator shaft in Hillary’s death star, I’d like to think about how to protect it.

  146. 146.

    Elizabelle

    February 25, 2016 at 6:46 pm

    @les: I agree. And don’t want to pile on NR personally, but have been wondering for a while if he/she is a troll.

    Because it’s constant angst and anxiety, and enough, already.

    Release the Lily.

  147. 147.

    boatboy_srq

    February 25, 2016 at 6:46 pm

    @Elizabelle: Pinot?

  148. 148.

    Shortribs

    February 25, 2016 at 6:46 pm

    @Tom Q:

    In fact, I think there are (still) some good-government white Republicans who’ll not vote for Trump because he’s utterly unqualified for office

    Count both my parents in that group. Mid-70s, white, spend all day with Fox News in the background, live in FL and have voted for Republicans (at the national level) their entire lives. Neither of them will vote for Trump. Their dilemma right now is they are *serious* about voting and will vote, just not for Trump. I doubt I can convince them to vote for Hillary (Bernie is entirely out of the question) but a vote not for Trump is good enough.

  149. 149.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 25, 2016 at 6:47 pm

    @srv:

    If Trump is gracious

    Now there’s a hypothetical if ever I saw one!

  150. 150.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 25, 2016 at 6:49 pm

    @Turgidson:

    Wasn’t there also a meeting — maybe it was this same one — where McCain was present and whining about something or other, and Obama just turned to him and quietly said “The election is over, John”? Something to that effect.

  151. 151.

    benw

    February 25, 2016 at 6:51 pm

    @raven: yep, I did my undergrad at UCSD, so me and my friends drove up through Torre Pines into Del Mar to surf when we got sick of Scripps or Blacks. I bounced around a little in college so I surfed a year at Santa Cruz (motherfucking coldest I’ve ever been) and a couple years at Manhattan when I was at UCLA.

    You’re going to make fun of me but I married into Tech. My wife and father in law are Tech alums and hardcore fans, and since I didn’t have a college team (UCSD is – by far – the biggest Div 3 school and has no football team) I adopted Tech. After all these years, I know most of the kids, so I’m a fan.

    You’re an Illini fan, too, right? My family’s from Illinois, Dad went to Champaign-Urbana for undergrad. I still have family in Champaign and Shelbyville, so I try to keep up with the Illini.

  152. 152.

    Johnnybuck

    February 25, 2016 at 6:51 pm

    @bupalos: I feel ya, but like the email server nontroversy, this kind of stuff only seems to work for those already inclined not to vote for her. I could be wrong though. Pretty sure John Cole will lose his mind over it for a few days.

  153. 153.

    randy khan

    February 25, 2016 at 6:56 pm

    @bupalos:

    Well, maybe we can start with this: The story about the Clinton Foundation not spending its money on charitable activities is a lie. Anyone who actually knows anything about charities would look at the foundation’s tax returns and conclude that something like 90% of the money it raises is spent on program activities (that is, the foundation’s official purposes). That’s gold star territory.

    The stupid press reports focused on what percentage of the money that was donated to the foundation was given to other charities. That’s a stupid way to measure it – it’s like saying the Red Cross is no good because it spends money on bottled water and tents for hurricane survivors.

    Anyway, that story was months ago now, and it’s just background noise at this point.

  154. 154.

    Ben Cisco

    February 25, 2016 at 6:57 pm

    @Gimlet: Noted, but then again GOPers are hypocritical by default. Missed that bit.

  155. 155.

    Kay

    February 25, 2016 at 6:58 pm

    @NR:

    He just hadn’t had any opposition. Media took him as a joke and used him for ratings for the first 6 months and Republicans are completely incapable of standing up to him. He’s lived in this bubble of his own creation but that isn’t going to last. The GOP base isn’t the Democratic base.

    Clinton and Sanders don’t have to kiss his ass to keep his voters. They don’t have to pretend banning Muslims or slapping a 35% tariff on everything we import or going door to door rounding up 12 million people are viable ideas on which reasonable people may disagree. They don’t have to play this game.

  156. 156.

    satby

    February 25, 2016 at 6:59 pm

    @MomSense: thanks! I’m not able to have any red wine because all the cold/flu medicine has acetaminophen, and I wouldn’t consider watching the Republican debate without booze.

  157. 157.

    raven

    February 25, 2016 at 6:59 pm

    @benw: Cool, I married into a Hokie family. I was at Tech for a couple of years after I got my degree, go downsized and moved back to Athens. Your kin must have some engineering with Tech and Illinois backgrounds. I was born in Urbana and returned there from Vietam in 69. My niece went to San Diego State and dated Will Demps while she was there.

    The water a Huntington was 75 degrees in October, I was stunned.

  158. 158.

    Elizabelle

    February 25, 2016 at 7:00 pm

    @MomSense: Like the salty tears of disappointment, cuz it’s February and we are doomed, doomed, doomed. (Kidding at this point; am cheered up, actually.)

    @boatboy_srq: Pinot could be good.

  159. 159.

    Elizabelle

    February 25, 2016 at 7:02 pm

    @satby: Hope you are feeling better. Might be a good night for a lighthearted movie.

  160. 160.

    MomSense

    February 25, 2016 at 7:02 pm

    @satby:

    Codeine? That could do the trick. Wow I sound terrible but IRL I’m a one glass of wine while cooking dinner type.

  161. 161.

    MomSense

    February 25, 2016 at 7:04 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    Ha! It is still so early in the process. We are literally making up reasons to call people. I’m scheduled to invite people (volunteer recruitment calls)to go bowling.

  162. 162.

    satby

    February 25, 2016 at 7:05 pm

    @Elizabelle: @MomSense: Thanks again. You know what I will be watching? Old classic movies on the Roku YouTube channel. They have a bunch of precode ones I’ve been working my way through.
    With hot lemonade and honey.

  163. 163.

    Heliopause

    February 25, 2016 at 7:05 pm

    Will Rubio sack up and go after Trump tonight? Or will he keep kicking Cruz in the junk?

    If it was me advising him I would suggest a strategery change tonight. Previously he has left Trump mostly alone and concentrated on knocking out Bush and Cruz, leaving him as the last pipsqueak standing against Trump. But I think his only chance now is, perhaps counterintuitively, to keep Cruz in the race and try to split the delegates three ways. So he should attack Kasich, with the odd grenade lobbed at Trump. That’s my Slate take.

  164. 164.

    Turgidson

    February 25, 2016 at 7:06 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    That may have been a different meeting but not sure. But yeah he basically said that to McCain, which displeased the King of the Sunday Shows greatly.

  165. 165.

    MomSense

    February 25, 2016 at 7:08 pm

    @satby:

    That sounds like fun. We are watching the Muppets.

  166. 166.

    Kathleen

    February 25, 2016 at 7:16 pm

    @Hildebrand: I’ve heard a few die hard conservative Republicans here in Ohio say they don’t like any of the Rethug candidates and they hate Trump. I think that’s interesting.

  167. 167.

    WaterGirl

    February 25, 2016 at 7:17 pm

    @Turgidson: Hey, the fact that President Obama didn’t say “Fuck you, I won, Get over it!” shows just how hard he works to deal with the republicans.

  168. 168.

    benw

    February 25, 2016 at 7:17 pm

    @raven: you’re one generation ahead of me, because my dad was stationed at Point Loma in the Navy during Vietnam. That’s how I ended up a California kid, instead of Illinois. You guessed it, my wife and dad are physicists, so if my kids get any brains it comes from them!

    If I was cool enough to know who Will Demps is, I’d make fun of your niece, but SD State is great. Man, 75 in October is nuts. It should be full-suit temps. I’m such a wuss now, when I visit my folks in the summer I still put on the full suit, so I don’t get cold.

  169. 169.

    WaterGirl

    February 25, 2016 at 7:18 pm

    @MomSense: Voter contact can also be calming because you’re actually doing something instead of all the fears having time to spin around in your head.

  170. 170.

    raven

    February 25, 2016 at 7:22 pm

    @benw: @benw: Will was a corner at SDSU and played in the NFL. Korean-African American kid that was tough as nails.

  171. 171.

    MomSense

    February 25, 2016 at 7:23 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Exactly.

  172. 172.

    benw

    February 25, 2016 at 7:24 pm

    @raven: Nice. I’m outty for the night. See ya!

  173. 173.

    pseudonymous in nc

    February 25, 2016 at 7:27 pm

    @randy khan:

    My take is that in some ways HRC is the candidate best suited to deal with Trump. She’s not going to get flustered and she’s pretty good with a shiv.

    Someone whose opinion I respect said that the cynical way to deal with an “anti-politics” campaign like Trump’s is to run a politics-as-usual negative campaign, and that Hillary and Team Hillary were pretty well suited to do that. The idea being that you drag El Trumpador into the dirt of your own choosing, and disillusion the people who see him as a fucking trickster god.

  174. 174.

    Kay

    February 25, 2016 at 7:34 pm

    Rubio is “previewing” his theoretical attacks on Trump to donors.

    He’s memorizing them :)

    They’re not even very good, either.

  175. 175.

    rikyrah

    February 25, 2016 at 7:36 pm

    @p.a.:

    They’re one step away from brownshirtism, so I have to wonder, where’s the oppo research on Trump? I’m not talking about pathetic efforts like NatReview. I’m talking Rovite/Atwater type smears we’ve all come to know and loathe. Can’t believe a schmuck like Trump doesn’t provide ammo.

    Trump has lived his life in the public eye for 20 years. Everyone of his divorces filled the tabloids for months. Because he’s been an ‘entertainer’ – the regular stuff that would have torpedoed a normal ‘ pol’ doesn’t touch him. Unless they have tapes of him with children….nothing else would matter.

  176. 176.

    Calouste

    February 25, 2016 at 7:45 pm

    @Shortribs: FOX will be Trump 24/7 after March 15. Your parents will vote for him in November.

  177. 177.

    Steve in the ATL

    February 25, 2016 at 7:49 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    Malbec does not go with pie, regrettably …

    This is just sad. I can still remember way back earlier today when you were a credible and sensible poster.

    Red wine goes with EVERYTHING, including but not limited to pie, white meat, fish, and late night posting on political blogs.

  178. 178.

    Central Planning

    February 25, 2016 at 8:01 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Red wine goes with EVERYTHING, including

    dark chocolate, a nice filet mignon, or all by itself.

  179. 179.

    Brachiator

    February 25, 2016 at 8:02 pm

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    Someone whose opinion I respect said that the cynical way to deal with an “anti-politics” campaign like Trump’s is to run a politics-as-usual negative campaign, and that Hillary and Team Hillary were pretty well suited to do that. The idea being that you drag El Trumpador into the dirt of your own choosing, and disillusion the people who see him as a fucking trickster god.

    Won’t work. Trump is the master of the barbed insult that puts a label on his opponent.

    But he is thin skinned. Attacks by Bill Clinton, who is a master of the barb, may do some damage. You have to make Trump hurt himself. And even then, his supporters may choose to ignore what is thrown at him.

    Politics as usual will not work because Trump is not your usual politician.

  180. 180.

    Central Planning

    February 25, 2016 at 8:02 pm

    Is there going to be any sort of live chat during the debate? Those are always fun with this crowd.

  181. 181.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 25, 2016 at 8:19 pm

    @Brachiator:

    But he is thin skinned. Attacks by Bill Clinton, who is a master of the barb, may do some damage. You have to make Trump hurt himself.

    Yep.

  182. 182.

    PaulW

    February 25, 2016 at 8:30 pm

    I think the real reason nobody in the Republican ranks have done any oppo research or are willing to hammer Trump on anything is because they’re terrified he can still bolt and run as an independent.

    Sure, he’s “promised” not to, but any act of “bad faith” out of the GOP establishment and Trump will have an excuse to go running off with his bruised ego… and take about 35 percent of the Republican voting base with him.

    Don’t forget how he blew off going to a Fox-held debate, pushing his grievance narrative hard. That act of insubordination to the party drew not one penalty or harsh rebuke… and Trump remains defiantly unscathed.

    This is why I doubt Rubio or anybody with the RNC can pull off a coup at the convention: even if they rig the delegation counts in their favor, that won’t stop Trump from running on his own and with ample evidence to an angry voting base that the Republican leadership is corrupt. The rioting in the streets would make Chicago 68 look like Woodstock.

  183. 183.

    Jim

    February 25, 2016 at 9:34 pm

    I live in Fort Lauderdale which out of the 100 most conservative cities ranks at 100 (the liberal/conservative divide is so close we probably tipped the city to liberal when we moved here and registered to vote). Walking the dogs in the neighborhood or driving to the supermarket I see plenty of Trump lawn signs and bumper stickers but at most I’ve seen one Rubio bumper sticker. He’s like the perfect astro turf Republican establishment candidate. Christie had Rubio’s number and put it on display. At least Jeb Bush is a genuine patrician–Rubio is about as inauthentic as a politician can get.

  184. 184.

    No One You Know

    February 26, 2016 at 12:03 am

    @les: amen, brother.

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