Voter id laws disfranchise people. Not being registered for the right party is not disfranchisement.
— John Cole (@Johngcole) April 17, 2016
Oh, the “irony”. Their once-upon-a-dream Pure Artisanal Unicorn candidate shows up, and the discerning seekers can’t vote for him, because rules, ugh. The NYTimes reports:
As the New York primary approaches, many of Senator Bernie Sanders’s most energetic and enthusiastic supporters are members of the small but influential Working Families Party.
They have donated money, planted signs in their yards, organized rallies and phone banks, and knocked on thousands of doors on behalf of the man who many of them view as a once-in-a-lifetime dream candidate who shares their own left-of-center values.
There is just one hitch: They cannot vote for him on Tuesday…
Mr. Mays and other members of the party cannot vote for Mr. Sanders, who represents Vermont in the Senate, because New York has a closed primary system that lets voters participate only in the primary of the party indicated on their voter registration.
That means only Democrats can vote for Mr. Sanders or his opponent, Hillary Clinton. And only Republicans can cast ballots in the contest here among Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, Gov. John Kasich of Ohio and Donald J. Trump…
“It’s disappointing on my part to not be part of history,” Mr. Bettez said, recalling his vote for Barack Obama for president in 2008. “I knew I was part of something that was big and I would tell my grandkids that I voted for Barack Obama. In the same way I wish I could tell my grandkids that I voted for Bernie Sanders in the New York State primary.”…
The existence of a closed primary in New York should not have come as a surprise to any inhabitant who considered themselves politically aware. There’s no reason why a committed Independent voter couldn’t have reregistered as a Democrat to vote for Sanders, and then switched back next cycle. But then, some voters are just very special snowflakes. Some kind of flakes, anyway. And Bernie Sanders is their king, according to the Washington Post:
… Without independents in those other states, Sanders probably would’ve been sunk long ago.
In Michigan, where Sanders won his greatest upset, Clinton beat him by 18 points among self-identified Democrats, according to exit polls. In Oklahoma, one of the few states that Clinton won in 2008’s primary but lost this year, she beat Sanders by nine points with Democrats. In Wisconsin, Sanders won overall by 13 points; he split the Democratic vote with Clinton 50-50.
In each case, independents who felt like pulling a Democratic ballot were able to vote for Sanders. In New York, many of the people who crowded Sanders’s rallies — some lining up for hours, Bernie buttons on their winter coats — admitted that they had not understood that New York’s rules were different.
“Nobody told us that we had to re-register,” said Toni Lantz, 24, who waited three hours to see Sanders speak in Rochester. “I’ve been an independent since I was 18. I didn’t like the choices until now; I consider myself to be more in the middle.”
Some did check the rules but couldn’t bring themselves to become Democrats.
“The minute that he declared he was running, I was supporting him,” Isabel Madden, 68, said at the Washington Square Park rally. “But it was important for me to remain independent, so I’ve been going around, trying to convince people to vote for him.”…
The NY Post gleefully predicts “a nightmare”…
… Judges, the NYPD and poll workers are on alert for potential chaos, officials say.
In New York City, election workers have been advised not to argue with insistent independents whose names are not in the poll books.
Instead they’ve increased the supply of affidavit ballots at each polling site to hand out to would-be voters. If a voter refuses an affidavit ballot, they can see a judge about granting a court order to allow a vote. Those ballots would only be counted after the election if records show they were cast by registered Democrats or Republicans.
“If there are crowds at poll sites – that’s what we expect, if there are any unruly crowds then we will coordinate with the New York City Police Department,” said Michael Ryan, executive director of the city’s Board of Elections.
“I can tell you I’ve been in and around elections in New York City for over 30 years and this is the first time I’m hearing of people complaining about the voter registration deadlines quite this vociferously,” Ryan said….
And it’s not as though the average New Yorker is averse to vociferous complaint. I’m guessing every local news outlet has a crew assigned to stake out polling places tomorrow evening. Not just at the Democratic sites, either; the Sandernistas are getting all the attention today, but I’m sure there’s a few newly enthusiastic Trump supporters who forgot they’re not registered Republicans. Or registered at all.
Yet New York’s precious, hand-curated, avowedly independent Independents still come second in the race for biggest political embarrassment via Magic Labelism…
This story is incredible and has made my day. https://t.co/4XfDwqffgu
— Adam Freelander (@adamplease) April 17, 2016
According to TPM, “no preference” may have been a stumbling block for people who are all about their personal choices:
LOS ANGELES (AP) — A survey has found that tens of thousands of voters, including Demi Moore and other celebrities, have mistakenly registered as members of a conservative minor political party in California in a mix-up over its name, a newspaper reported Sunday.
The Los Angeles Times said that a telephone survey of 500 members of the American Independent Party found nearly 3 of 4 people did not realize they had enrolled in a political party that opposes abortion rights and same sex marriage and calls for building a fence along the U.S. border.
The newspaper said voters were confused by the use of the word “independent” in the party’s name. In California, voters who do not want to register with any party must check a box on a registration form for “no party preference.”
“I just blew it,” Deborah Silva, 64, of Point Arena in Mendocino County, told the Times. “There were a number of choices. I just checked the box that said ‘independent.'”
Of people surveyed in the Times poll, fewer than 4 percent could correctly identify their own registration as a member of the American Independent Party…
Baud
At the risk of repeating myself, I hope we reform the primary process next year, but you can’t change the rules in the middle of the game.
StellaB
“I’m a centerist” explains a preference for Sanders?
Baud
@StellaB: Some people are simply anti-two-party or anti-establishment, without having any particular political ideology.
lamh36
Has the NY primary always been a closed one?
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
Rules are for the corrupt and bought.
Wait a minute, my snark turned into anarchism.
LAO
I can not wait to vote tomorrow!
D58826
Bernie continues to write attack ads for the GOP by claiming Clinton is breaking the law with her fund raising. (sigh)
Arm The Homeless
I’ve got a British Bernie stan calling me a provocateur for pointing out that the courts in NYS can only change registration for those who applied, on time, but haven’t been switched.
He’s a foul-mouthed little Limey
Chyron HR
@LAO:
DEAR DNC:
I HAVE ATTAINED PROOF THAT CLINTONITE SCUM ARE PLANNING TO STEAL THE ELECTION BY VOTING EARLY ON MONDAY. PLEASE GIVE ME THE NOMINATION NOW PLEASE.
VERY TRULY YOURS,
BERNARD SANDERS
LAO
@lamh36: yes. For as long as I can remember.
Mike J
@Baud: That I understand. It’s stupid, but I understand it. But a self described centrist who wants to vote for the person rightly or wrongly described as being the farthest left?
Baud
You know which voters were really disenfranchised. Michigan and Florida voters in 2008. And rightly so, even though the voters themselves didn’t do anything wrong.
chopper
@Chyron HR:
PS I AM NOT A CRACKPOT
Origuy
The fact that people are just finding this out now is an indication of how reliable they are as voters. The California American Independent Party issue goes way back. These stories run every four years.
Mike J
If he was able to vote in the NY primary for Obama, he would still be registered as a Democrat unless he made an effort not to be.
lamh36
@LAO: so once again the Sanders camp has done their supporters a disservice…one thing I remember from the OfA camp, they were really focused on making sure their supporters made it to the polls during the primaries and caucuses, but also they they KNEW the information they needed to in order vote in said primary or caucus.
I mean, they kept on supporters via email, text, letters, etc…
Baud
@Mike J: What does he care? He can vote GOP in the general.
NR
That’s some grade-A sophisticated political commentary right there.
LAO
@lamh36: I believe the proper term is “political malpractice”
LAO
@Mike J: seems to me, he voted in the general, not the primary.
NR
@Mike J: Not everyone votes strictly on ideology. Many people admire Sanders for his honesty and integrity. I know BJ thinks he’s the most evil man to ever live, but not everyone shares that view.
lamh36
@Mike J: I was just thinking the same thing here….either he vote during the primary, well I guess there wasn’t one in 2012, he would have been 20..so he wasn’t old enough to vote in primary for Obama in ’08…that is if my math is correct?
different-church-lady
The guy spends his entire political life calling himself an independent.
In November he declares himself a democrat. Nobody notices. Not even his own supporters.
He runs for the nomination of a major political party, and a millions of people who don’t like that party bitch about the fact that the party they won’t join has long established rules that won’t let them vote for the guy who wants to take over that party.
I mean, god-fuckin’-DAMN, how cluelessly arrogant do you have to be in order to feel hard-done-by in that situation?
Felonius Monk
I think Bernie will be having a very bad day tomorrow.
singfoom
This is embarrassing. Like John’s tweet said, there are rules that disenfranchise people. But not knowing the rules while being politically aware is not disenfranchisement.
I’ve always been Bernie over HRC, but his campaign lately leaves a lot to be desired. If I were running in NY and I knew of these rules, I would make sure my supporters knew IN ADVANCE that they would have to switch their registration, and by which date the switch would need to be done in order to vote for me.
C’mon Bernie, this is 101 shit. Stuff like this just gives ammo to those who think you aren’t ready for primetime…..
geg6
@Baud:
One reform I’d like to see is the elimination of open primaries. A primary is a party’s process for choosing their nominee and non-party members have no business having the same influence that I, who has supported, donated to and worked for the party for 40 years, do. No fucking way. I’m hAppy PA has a closed primary. No sympathy for idiots who can’t bother to make registration deadlines or can’t bother to read the fine print when they do. Tough shit.
gwangung
@different-church-lady: No,it’s worse than that. For a lot if states, he could have told his voters HOW to do so, but somehow didn’t. Not the fault of the Democratic Party.
geg6
@Arm The Homeless:
I have a Canadian Bernista driving me nuts on FB, but at least he isn’t foul mouthed.
Baud
@geg6: I can see both sides of that issue, especially if the GOP has an open primary. You don’t want to force independent voters into the GOP camp. But it’s worth debating.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Origuy: I’m in my mid 50’s, I know who the American Independent Party is. Someone in their 60’s doesn’t know, someone must have missed the late 60’s and early 70’s, somehow.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Boy, that’s one boring-ass grandpa
Chyron HR
@NR:
Ha ha, it’s funny because (as you remind us 50 times a day) that title actually belongs to Clinton.
singfoom
@lamh36:
This, exactly this. I worked phonebanks for OFA and once I got on the list before phonebanking, they communicated everything I needed to know to be an effective and helpful supporter.
This is a campaign failure 1000%. You play by the rules as they are established and you let your people know what they need to do. This isn’t even about being smart or tactical. It’s about basic competence.
If Bernie’s campaign can’t get this right in the primary, I have concerns about the general. Fuck.
Baud
@singfoom:
Once again, I expect this is an example of the campaign not expecting to make it this far and not planning for it.
geg6
@Baud:
How is it forcing them into the GOP? A closed primary is closed for both parties. At least it is here.
BillinGlendaleCA
@NR: Balloon Juice: come for the political commentary, enjoy the snark.
(You do know this is a political blog?)
WaterGirl
@NR: I would have gone with “honesty” and “integrity” as descriptions for Bernie 2 months ago. I preferred him over Clinton. But now, neither is a word I would attach to Bernie Sanders, which is really sad, because he did it to himself.
BernieBros>HillaryBots
Requiring a party affiliation in order to vote is, by definition, disinfranchisement.
I love how Hillary has turned you all into voter suppressionists… you know that the higher turnout is, the more likely Bernie will win. You’re all so blinded by the myth of Hillary’s “Inevitability” that you can’t see how Republican you’ve all become.
different-church-lady
So, anyone know how many remaining states have the same kind of scenario?
geg6
@singfoom:
As has been shown over and over again, the Sanders campaign is the poster child for campaign malpractice on the left side of the aisle. On the right, looks like the Trump campaign wins the cup.
starscream
Why won’t Democrats do anything to support working familes?
LAO
@geg6: In NY, only the independent party allows voters affiliated with other parties to vote in their primary.
different-church-lady
@BernieBros>HillaryBots: Knock it off, Doug J.
Baud
@geg6:
If the rules are the same for both sides, then it wouldn’t. I don’t know that they have to be.
geg6
@different-church-lady:
I believe the majority of upcoming races are closed primaries, but don’t quote me on that.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@NR:
No, I don’t think Bernie is evil, just not prepared to be President. Now, his supporters, particularly those who stop by here to insult and bark at people generally well disposed to Sanders, THEY are evil, or naive, or stupid.
dr. bloor
@geg6: Is he pissed that Canadian provinces won’t be conducting primaries so he can Feel the Bern for realz?
bmoak
@geg6: I guarantee that if the Republicans had locked down their nominee early in the process, there would be a concentrated organized effort to get Republicans to the polls in open primary states to “Feel the Bern”
lollipopguild
@The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016: Depends on who bought you and how much they paid.
different-church-lady
@LAO: But are they closed in a way where the deadline for declaring party affiliation has already passed?
singfoom
@BernieBros>HillaryBots: Yeah, uh, I’m a Bernie supporter, one of the few here, and this would be called an “Own Goal”. I’m not a voter suppressionist in the least.
This whole issue isn’t about turnout, but basic campaign competence. The fact that we’re hearing about this the day before the primary in NYC shows a lack of competence in Bernie’s campaign, which has shit to do with turnout.
How does turnout matter if your voters can’t actually vote for you? Playing by the rules of the Democratic party primary doesn’t make anyone “Republican”.
WaterGirl
@BernieBros>HillaryBots: That’s a pretty broad brush you’re painting with there, Bucko.
Not everyone here loves Hillary, but damn, Bernie has shown himself to be totally not ready for prime time. And maybe not so strong in the honesty and integrity department.
feebog
@NR:
Actually, that would be Ted Cruz. Look, many of us started out with no preference. As the campaign rolled along a lot of BJers who had not made of their minds decided Secretary Clinton was the better choice. For me the breaking point was Bernie’s New York Post interview. It was, in a word, a disaster. Moreover, even if he seems to be (and no doubt is) a decent and honorable guy, some of his backers are dicks. Throwing dollar bills at Clinton when leaving a fund raiser for DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES if just fucking stupid and infantile. There is a reason Bernie can’t identify a single instance where Clinton has taken campaign donations or speaking fees as a quid pro quo; there is none. And Bernie knows this. Which makes him more than a tad hypocritical.
WarMunchkin
@Baud: Agreed. This system was right for the time, but now its time has ended. I don’t know what’s fair in its place. Everything I’ve brainstormed is unfair to people in certain ways.
More Perfect Union, I guess.
aimai
@StellaB: Yeah, that caught my eye as well. He should be complaining that he isn’t being allowed to vote for Trump, not Bernie.
scav
Mm, can’t wait for the calls for non-US citizens being allowed to vote in US elections so that no one is disenfranchised. And why limit voters to inhabitants of the state? Because apparently party membership is clearly a step too far when choosing a party’s candidate. Allowing Chipotle’s staff to choose the next incarnation of Ronald McDonald is only fair!
LAO
@different-church-lady: Yes. March 25th.
ETA: Remember laughing about the facts that 2 of trumps kids didn’t register in time. Same deadline for both parties.
Felonius Monk
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
Corrected version: THEY are evil, naive, and stupid.
different-church-lady
@LAO: All remaining states with closed primaries have the same deadline?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@singfoom:
I read through a Sanders subreddit from the end of March, and the commenters there knew what the problems in NY were going to be, and were all crying out for Jeff Weaver to kick in some cash to set up a GOTV and get out in front of this. The fact that Weaver the comic book guy didn’t know or care is all you need to know about money in politics, and the seriousness and/or incompetence and/or hypocrisy of Sanders.
NR
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Oh no! Prominent Republican operatives!
Meanwhile, there’s this:
I can’t help but remember how many times I was told around here that Hillary’s negatives were “baked in” and couldn’t get any worse. Well, her net favorability is behind Ted Cruz now.
geg6
@BernieBros>HillaryBots:
So you’d be all for non-citizens voting in American elections, too? Makes as much sense as your stupid argument. Nobody says they can’t vote. They just can’t vote for the Democratic nominee, which is how it should be since they aren’t Democrats. If you don’t like it, take it up with Bernie. He’s the one who chose to run as a Democrat and failed to do the basic campaign work of making sure his supporters could actually vote for him.
AkaDad
@NR: People who use this much hyperbole are worse than Hitler.
BillinGlendaleCA
@WarMunchkin:
Baud! will fix it!
aimai
@Origuy: Right. Anyone who is registered CIP in California and hasn’t noticed it until now simply never votes in any primary elections and only turns up (if they do) for the General. So their party ID never mattered. I’ve worked elections here and its amazing how few people know anything at all about voting. They turn up, enthusiastically, in a wave election (like 2008) and are shocked to discover that other people already registered and have their names down on a huge sheet of paper saying they can vote in the precinct. “But I want to vote…now!” they tell you and you have to explain to them that they had to register to vote some time previously in order to, you know, get registered.
geg6
@different-church-lady:
The PA deadline was about a month ago.
different-church-lady
@geg6: Come to think of it, why are we disenfranchising housepets? Why should my dog not have a say in who will lead the country she lives in?
oz29
@Baud: The lack of planning is really starting to show. The campaign looks more amateurish by the day.
LAO
@different-church-lady: I have no idea. That was NY’s date. I would assume it’s not uniform across the states.
different-church-lady
@AkaDad: You know who else was worse than Hitler? Hitler.
Baud
@different-church-lady: They’re the only voters I would trust.
Felonius Monk
@LAO:
Only if you had never been previously registered. If you have been previously registered, the deadline for changing your party affiliation was last October. You know, before Bernie decided to become a Democrat.
Mike J
Bernie’s campaign could use fewer activists and more organizers, but I’m glad they don’t seem to have them.
At the LD caucus yesterday, I was asking people coming in who they were caucusing for. More than one person asked, “why do you care?” Well, you’re a pledged delegate who has already stated publicly who you are caucusing for, you’re required to caucus for the candidate you are pledged to, and if you’re a Hillary supporter I want to direct you to where we’re huddling. If you’re a Bernie supporter, I don’t care what you do. Not one of the offended was a Hillary delegate.
lamh36
Calouste
@NR: Honest and integer Bernie Sanders has released fewer of his tax returns than those bastions of honesty and integrity, Carly Fiorina and Mitt Romney.
It’s pretty obvious that you can fool some people all the time.
Emma
@BernieBros>HillaryBots: Bullfeathers. You can still vote in the general election. By definition, that is not disenfranchisement.
LAO
@Felonius Monk: thank you. I did not know that since I’ve been a registered democrat for 28 years.
Baud
@Calouste: I’m still flabbergasted by that.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Mike J:
Organization is for Establishment sell outs, man. Freedumb!
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
We have open primaries here on the frozen tundra and it causes no end of trouble for Democrats. The GOP falls in line and so there is rarely a primary campaign on their side. A lot of the nutbags love to go to the polls and vote for the DFL candidate they think will be most easily beaten in the general. I don’t like the alternative but open primaries are not a good thing so there we are.
dr. luba
@Felonius Monk: Nope. Per Wikipedia:
“Bernie Sanders presidential campaign, 2016. The 2016 presidential campaign of Bernie Sanders, the junior United States Senator and former Representative from Vermont, began with a formal announcement by Sanders on May 26, 2015, in Burlington, Vermont, which followed an informal announcement on April 30.”
He declared he was running as a democrat in May, and had hinted about it for months.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Excuse me, Baud, but my kitties Mr. Bear and Miss Willow would like to have a word with you. When you get a minute.
Alex.S
In general, I’m ok with an open or a closed primary. I think that it should be the same across all parties in the state, to prevent the situation of a closed primary for one party and an open primary for another party. There are reasonable arguments to be made for either, so I feel it’s ok to be left up to the state.
I’m not ok with arguments that it’s voter suppression — it’s a party election, they should have the option to restrict it to just members of the political party.
Also, get rid of caucuses. It has little to do with this discussion, but they really need to go away for selecting candidates for a general election.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Felonius Monk:
Though, he was running for the Democratic Party nomination since April, 2015.
aimai
@singfoom: The Bernie people don’t think this would be a problem–that is: they don’t think the general is a problem because they think that even though the Democratic Party is rotten to the core all of the strategy, savvy, money, data, and workers of the Democratic Party would be at their disposal if Bernie was the Nominee. And they are correct in a structural and formal sense. But Obama and his team basically ran his election, with the help of the DNC. State by state they knew their own business and worked hard with down ballot races and individuals. Here in MA there was a “coordinated campaign” so that local dems could hand out Obama stuff and Obama people handed out and door knocked for local Dems. Its weird to me how they assume an organization and thoughtful leadership and kind of paste it onto the cardboard image of Bernie and his team.
redshirt
@different-church-lady: UberHitler
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@aimai:
Throw in the whole ‘if everyone was honest and truly knew Bernie, they would vote for him’ rhetoric and you start to see glimpses of authoritarianism beneath all the shiny happy rhetoric.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
A thoughtful voter like that, with those deep principles, that’s the kind you can count on in November.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@different-church-lady: Hitler killed Hitler, though. Doesn’t that make Hitler better than Hitler?
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Anytime. I’ve been thinking of holding a pet town hall.
redshirt
@feebog:
I think you’ve summarized a good number of BJer’s thoughts here. I’ve certainly noticed this blog turning very much anti-Bernie in the last couple of weeks when it used to be Bernie-neutral and even Bernie-curious.
I wonder if this trend is also reflected in the country, or is this place an outlier.
Felonius Monk
@dr. luba: Not to be contrary, but you might look at this.
Mike J
@dr. luba:
He’s already filed the FEC paperwork for his 2018 Senate reëlect running as an independent. Couldn’t even make it to the general election before abandoning his new party.
different-church-lady
@The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016:
But only for the sole purpose of denying the rest of the world the satisfaction of killing Hitler.
StellaB
@aimai: I’ve always canvassed that way too. You pass out a whole wad of campaign literature for the federal, state, and sometimes local elections plus the party’s endorsement for initiatives and the like. I suppose that’s another example of “corruption” now.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@redshirt: IT’s been interesting to watch Cole, who when he endorsed Clinton still left his heart in Bernie!land. He’s been getting increasingly exasperated since “unqualified”, and now he’s getting flamed by the True Believers of Twitter
Rob C
Will you maintain that sneering attitude toward Sanders supporters, Ms. Laurie, if Clinton does win the nomination? Don’t you think you’ll need us in the general election? No, probably not. Hillary’s historically high favorability ratings and your ongoing snide insults should be enough to carry the day.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Will you be sending the private jet to pick them up?
Groucho48
To be fair, the deadline for the party affiliation change was Oct. 9, 2015. Before any of the primaries. Before it turned out that Sanders was running competitively. And, that was the deadline. He would probably have had to get the wheels moving on signing people up as Dems in June or so.
Honestly, if you were running Sanders campaign, on the pretty small budget and structure you had back then, would you consider spending a LOT of time and effort getting NY-ers to register as Dems?
WaterGirl
@Mike J:
Wow. Just wow.
WarMunchkin
@geg6: Well, every campaign has its strengths and weaknesses, and Sanders’ is on display right now. I will say that in October, I don’t think anyone thought that Sanders would be seriously competitive this far in, so I’m not convinced this is quite as powerful of a criticism as it could be.
I think the Sanders campaign does have incredible strength in its ability to come up with a digital organization basically overnight. This tool is incredibly cool. I’m impressed; I’m curious to know what administrative tooling Sanders’ campaign has – particularly mobile, not web apps that would be useful for Democrats to continue to dominate among young voters.
Like Obama’s campaign in 2008, this insurgent campaign is also pioneering new digital tools and campaign infrastructure, so that’s worthwhile.
Still voting for Hilldawg tomorrow, though.
geg6
@dr. bloor:
I apparently don’t understand that Bernie is the most important politician in American history and his main issues are the only ones that matter. Women’s issues, minority issues and other such issues aren’t all that important compared to income inequality (but female income inequality isn’t really an issue because Bernie’s focus on the overall inequality issue will solve that…no biggie). Nothing else matters and jailing the bankers will solve all these problems.
singfoom
@aimai: Yeah, I don’t think the Democratic party is rotten to the core, but the argument has some sway with me. But at this point, given everything that has happened and despite my belief that HRC will turn around and support the TPP after being elected despite her pledge now, I’m done with Bernie’s campaign.
I already voted in the IL primary and he lost here. Too many signs of incompetence on the part of his campaign and too little specificity from Bernie in his answers in the NYDN. I take the primary campaign as proof of how someone will run a general. In this case, all signs point to Bernie’s campaign screwing the pooch. Can we just get this primary over and get to the general please? This is depressing.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
LOL. Those are the voters that want to elect their Dear Leader to steer the world’s largest most important and complicated ship of state. Bring on the Brawndo.
different-church-lady
@Groucho48:
You win the nomination by getting delegates. NY is a delegate-rich state, which borders his home state. Of COURSE I would spend time trying to get as many votes as I could in NY.
? Martin
@Baud:
Correct. I think the two party system produces bad outcomes. The closed primary systems, even the existence of a high-profile primary system, just reinforces the system. There really isn’t a broad diversity of ideas in politics. You have two parties that define what the issues will be – all others are cast aside, and they are forced to present opposing viewpoints and convince the public of those viewpoints in the name of market differentiation. In a multi-party system you could at least get agreement among multiple parties in order to form a majority faction. Right now, if you have an electorate enough in favor of some aspect of the GOP, you are stuck with the entire GOP agenda since there is no way to build an opposing majority.
So, count me in support of Democratic policies, but count me opposed to this horse race bullshit.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Groucho48:
There are advantages to running as a Democrat as it turns out. Who knew? Oh, Obama did. Obama lost New York and California and still won without an army of WATBs.
Iowa Old Lady
@Alex.S: Exactly. And as I understand it, this is an issue not for new voters who could register until a month ago, so young people voting for the first time are fine. The people who have problems are those who registered as something other than Democrats and want to change their party ID. IOW, they’re old enough to know better. The claim that something nefarious is happening is annoying.
PaulWartenberg2016
I tried to teach a class today on How to E-Publish Your Writing. I got as far as getting the cover art uploaded and discovered to my horror I didn’t have a proper pixel size on the JPG image. Everything else I had done correctly.
So damn the man, I had to finish this at home where my photo editor could enlarge it (and I’ll need to install a new photo editor on the training laptop first chance I get tomorrow). I hope the class attendees follow through on calling me for additional help like I offered: I hope they learned a lot from it (along with the reality that you need JPGs over 1000 pixels arrrrrggghhhhhhh).
Brachiator
There have been stories about how Ted Cruz has people on the ground in the remaining states, explaining the rules and doing what they need to do to wrangle votes and delegates, trying to blunt Trump’s advantage.
Bernie and his people are in a similar situation, but seem to spend more time whining and complaining rather than trying to do whatever they can to offset their early primary disadvantage.
In 2008, HRC could be judged by the inadequacy of her primary campaign. Bernie, who should know better, is making even dumber decisions.
And for the record, I started out liking Bernie. I wondered whether he would up his game once he got to New York. Instead, he is rapidly expending goodwill and wasting time.
redshirt
@singfoom: I’m not a Democrat and never will be one yet it pisses me off how Bernie is pissing on the Democratic party. There’s nothing more important then defeating Republicans so anything that even possibly messes with this goal is very bad. Bernie has entered “very bad” territory.
aimai
@Groucho48: Sanders campaign can be forgiven for not spending money to convert independents to dems. They didn’t think they had to. They were planning on largely pulling Democratic votes. The whole “independents love Bernie” thing came later, when the exit polls started to come out. The whole campaign has been a rolling series of gestures, not particularly well thought out. Like Bernie’s claim that he’s the “amendment king” which they spun up out of whole cloth to counter the obvious fact that he has basically gotten almost nothing done since he’s been in congress. (It turns out that HRC’s record in the Senate, for both amendments and actual bills, beats his record in the Senate and they were there for roughly the same amount of time).
singfoom
@Groucho48:
Ahem:
NYC Voting
That would be March 25th, not Oct 9th, 2015. As far as I can tell from reading that above ny.gov link….where does the October date come from?
Roger Moore
@Baud:
Why not? If you bring in some genuine independents, they might counteract the influence of the Tea Party and get the Republicans to nominate some candidates who aren’t quite as crazy.
aimai
@? Martin: We don’t have a parliamentary system–we have a two party system. We are stuck with it. Its very, very, very, bad for the country that the Republicans have decided to act like we have a parlimentary system and they can essentially vote the PResident out at the midterms.
Cacti
Millennials.
Smh.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
After I’m elected, I can pick them up in Air Force 1.
Chyron HR
@PaulWartenberg2016:
Hillary strikes again!
Origuy
The California deadline to register to vote in the primary is May 23, fifteen days before the election. California allows parties to choose to hold closed or semi-open primaries. The Republican primary is closed; only registered Republicans can vote in it. The Democratic primary is semi-open; Democrats and those registered as “no party preference” can vote in it. The deadline for changing party affiliation is also May 23.
? Martin
@singfoom: March 25 to register the first time. It’s Oct 9 if you are switching parties per party wishes.
singfoom
@aimai: The two parties are not part of our system of government. Sure, they’ve been there for a while, but they’re not part of the design of our government. Nothing in the Bill of Rights or the Constitution about Republican party or Democratic party. Not that either party would admit that though….they’ve enacted enough rules in each state to make sure nobody gets on the ballot that isn’t one of the two parties…
But we’re not parliamentary either. Sorry, had to be pedantic.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@redshirt:
Oh there is no doubt this place is an outlier for sure. That does not mean the country that was willing to listen to Bernie are not feeling the same way we are now.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@efgoldman:
NR puts his or her own words in everyone’s mouth. Just sayin’.
AxelFoley
@lamh36:
B-bu-but Bernie said Obama abandoned his constituents and said “Thanks, but I got this”!!!!11!!11eleventyone!1
singfoom
@? Martin: That date was kind of buried, but ok, you’re right, I retract my previous statement. http://www.nyccfb.info/about/calendar/change-party-enrollment-deadline-2016-elections
chopper
@Cacti:
say “millenials” 3 times and goblue will show up to speak on their behalf.
Mike J
@singfoom: 25 days before the previous general election is the deadline.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@different-church-lady:
No, please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Let’s not bicker and argue about who killed who …
Mnemosyne
@singfoom:
One of the reasons Obama pulled out the win in the 2008 primary was that his people read the rules with a fine-toothed comb and figured out exactly what they needed to do to win.
Bernie’s folks wouldn’t know a comb even if they sat on the pointy end. And I’m not talking about his hairdresser.
? Martin
@aimai:
We don’t need a parliamentary system. And we don’t mandate a 2 party system, we simply have mechanisms that make it inevitable – and those mechanisms are largely designed by the two parties to ensure that there aren’t third parties.
What I’m suggesting is that with broader party representation in Congress, gridlock would be harder to pull off, even if the president is elected in the same manner as we do now.
Cacti
@efgoldman:
Not to mention, registering for a party consists of checking a box on your voter registration form. Is there a more de minimis burden than that?
Poopyman
Good job, Sanders Campaign! This should have been repeated several times at every rally.
AxelFoley
@singfoom:
This.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@BernieBros>HillaryBots:
You mean return to being.
In other words the Republicantion of John Cole.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Better still!
Mike J
@? Martin: As long as we have electoral districts tied to geography, we’ll have a two party system, or so says M. Duverger.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
I don’t see in the article where it says anything about his age.
Baud
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): We are on the vanguard of American political thought.
Ripley
WHO?! Who will not wear the ribbon?!
? Martin
@Cacti:
Doesn’t matter. What is the state’s interest in preserving party loyalty? Why is party registration even necessary? Why is voter registration even necessary?
I don’t see how you can oppose voter ID laws and restrictive voting laws, and defend party registration.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Howard Fineman just said at the end of the Tweety show that the Sanders campaign is planning at least one more lawsuit against the Democratic Party, so I guess that’s where their focus and energy is.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@? Martin:
I’m gonna guess you live in a state where the GOP has never screwed with the Democratic side during an open primary. I have seen it done several times here. I don’t like the idea but actually think it prevents as much corruption as it creates.
? Martin
@Mike J: Well, so long as gerrymandering is a legal construct, you’ll have a 2 party system. We should not be defending that either.
Baud
@? Martin: In multiparty systems, party membership is even more strictly regulated.
PhoenixRising
@Cacti: Ha!
Think she left some words out of that sentence, or maybe it was edited for length. As printed it implies that Ms Madden is so immature that she believes ‘being independent’ is more important than being able to weigh in on the party primary, and has been spending her time trying to convince folks who are not quite so independent as herself that they should express her preferences for her.
Millennials indeed. Someone got clean for Gene, you just know it.
Mike J
@Poopyman:
Sanders tried to tell them, they just didn’t listen:
different-church-lady
@? Martin: WHY CAN’T MY HOUSEPLANTS VOTE!?!
? Martin
@Baud: I understand that, but you have a range of other policies that encourage a multiparty system to exist. You have to figure out which policies will get you there and which won’t. What gets the US there will inevitably be different from other countries because our system is structured differently.
msdc
@Mike J: Yeah, it’s funny how this guy got his shit together in 2008 and somehow got it un-together by 2016.
Then again, it’s also funny how the guy who wants to tell his grandkids he voted for Barack Obama doesn’t want to tell his grandkids he voted for the candidate who’s running on protecting Obama’s achievements.
PhoenixRising
@Baud: Twice on Sundays; multiparty systems in nations as diverse as Canada, Spain, Ireland and Greece have in common the identity-policing activity of 1 or more parties devoted to blowing up things and people not conforming to that party’s preferences.
I’m concerned that this type of knowledge. about party politics in democracies featuring a party whose allegiances are sealed w/symbolic and some actual violence, may come in handy in Cleveland in July.
Our 2 parties prove both the maxims that democracy is the least bad of all possible forms of government, and that you can count on Americans to do things right once we’ve exhausted all the alternatives.
Baud
@? Martin: You need to start with individual states if you want to radically alter the American model.
different-church-lady
@Mike J:
Probably a bridge too far for a lot of them.
? Martin
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): California? We’re the fucking home of both Reagan and Nixon. But if the primary system is too easily rigged, maybe get rid of the fucking primary system?
redshirt
@different-church-lady: As a schizophrenic, we should be given 5 votes.
Betty Cracker
Gotta admit, I’m moving from the “I’m glad Bernie’s running even though I support Clinton” camp to the “just go the fuck away, wankers” position. Not because of the asshole supporters — it’s the top campaign people like Weaver and Devine and the candidate himself. They are in over their heads, and now they are flailing in a way that can do the party long-term damage. That’s incredibly fucking irresponsible.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Baud:
You may be guarding a van but I ain’t!
Mike J
@? Martin: You would need to go to at large districts to do proportional representation. I don’t see many states clamoring for it, but I suppose it could happen. In smaller states it would be easier to do, but if you only have two seats it would still be difficult for a small party to gain a seat. In a large state like California, I could see at least a few seats being taken by small parties, but your congressperson might be based 800 miles away.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: What does your hubby think? He voted for Bernie.
BR
As this primary goes on I’m moving from a Bernie sympathizer and likely voter to neutral to now almost anti-Bernie. And not a bit of it was because of anything Clinton said or did. I was on Bernie’s senate mailing list for many years, despite not being a VT resident, because I thought he was bringing something useful to the table. I’m realizing now that what he was doing then was what he should be doing — being a rabble rouser in the senate.
? Martin
My argument put another way (and I say this as a HRC supporter), to those that complain about Sanders’ questionable loyalty to the party, what choice did he have? There’s no chance in hell he could have won from outside the party, and if he had tried, he’d be splitting the general election vote and tossing it to the Republican. Before you complain, consider that the alternatives are worse, and they are worse by design of the party that you are supporting. And to his credit, he has pulled HRC to the left, and that’s widely regarded as a good thing. That could not have happened under any other scenario.
BR
@Betty Cracker:
Didn’t see your comment, but basically just wrote the same thing…
Hope this primary ends soon.
dmsilev
And more Sanders campaign oddness:
Also not mentioned, this seems like an odd strategy for a campaign which needs to attract superdelegate votes in order to have a chance at the nomination.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@? Martin:
BECAUSE PRIMARIES ARE NOT A FUNCTION OF THE STATE, THEY ARE A FUNCTION OF THE PARTY.
You might even notice some states have Dem & Rep primaries on different days and others have a primary for only one party while the other decides to go caucus only.
I don’t know how to make it any more plain to you, it has been explained a couple of time in this thread alone
AkaDad
Bernie didn’t tell his supporters to register as Democrats because he didn’t want them to become corrupted. That’s how awesome he is.
different-church-lady
@Betty Cracker: About six weeks ago, I had planned (in the event Sanders didn’t pull it off) to write a “Thank you for running, Bernie” diary on the GOS.
Today? Fuck that.
I used to think Sanders deserved better than his supporters. Now I think they’re actually a perfect match, and that’s no accident. I didn’t expect to arrive at this point at all.
Felonius Monk
@singfoom:
March 25th was the deadline for new (never previously registered in NYS) registrations. If you were previously registered and wanted to change your party affiliation, then the deadline for doing so was October 2015.
Baud
@? Martin:
Compete, and if he loses, accept it graciously.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: Well said. OT, did you see the invitation I posted for you in one of the other threads? THE CHICKEN WHISPERER is coming to our town later this week. I was sure you’d want to go!
Roger Moore
@aimai:
Bernie’s basic problem is that he doesn’t seem to appreciate that politics is a team sport. A lot of the stuff that he and his followers label as corruption is a matter of going along with the team.
Turgidson
@BernieBros>HillaryBots:
Unlike that fine bloke Bernie, who has all but explicitly stated his preference that pretty much all Democratic voters south of the Mason Dixon line have their ballots thrown out as “distorting reality,” whatever the fuck that means.
Mnemosyne
@singfoom:
There are plenty of parties other than Democrats and Republicans on the ballot. It’s more that the Green Party and the Constitution Party candidates don’t have enough voters to win.
And if you really want to get back to what the Founders wanted, they didn’t want any parties at all. Everyone was supposed to work so well together that the first runner-up could be Vice President. That lasted, what, 12 years total?
The Ancient Randonneur
@Betty Cracker: Yep. They remind of the guys who are known as AAAA players in MLB. They aren’t quite good enough to play in the major league. They look great for the early part of the season but once the pitchers figure them out they can’t get on base and the grind wears them down because it’s a very long season.
SiubhanDuinne
@BernieBros>HillaryBots:
If there were a party affiliation required in order to vote in the general election, I would agree. But what everyone seems to forget is that the parties decide how they will select their nominee, not the government. Primaries, closed or open; state conventions or caucuses; winner take all or proportional delegate allocation (or smoke-filled rooms, or drawing the short straw, or flipping a coin) — none of this is a matter of “franchise” no matter how many surface similarities there may appear to be with exercising one’s democratic right to vote.
Yes, it is a profoundly flawed system and it sucks — the more so because each state is slightly different, and brings different rules and templates to the table. But it is not, in and of itself, antidemocratic*. Anyone who wants to change it needs to get involved with the Democratic or Republican Party, and work to make the necessary changes as a member of that party — not come barging in as an affronted “independent” and whine that the system is rigged or unfair.
* ETA: Actually, on reflection, it is in fact antidemocratic; it’s just that that is an irrelevant criticism.
Groucho48
@singfoom:
I got it from a ThinkProgress article, which was the first thing that cameup in a google.
Do you think Sanders was running to win, last summer? I don’t. Oh, he probably nursed a faint hope, but, no more than that. And, even if he WAS serious back then, were there enough Sanders supporters in NY to register hundreds of thousands of folks as Dems just so they could vote for Sanders? Trump is having the same problem. There are NYS Dems who like Trump who won’t be able to vote for him on Tuesday.
I really don’t think this is evidence of incompetence.
lamh36
@Groucho48: Hmmm, and yet, the OfA campaign managed just fine early on and beyond, without yet knowing if they were competitive.
If you truly want to win, and your pathway is through independents, then you spend the money, time and effort to train your folks about the rules for primaries and caucuses.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@? Martin:
So you want caucus only? Everyone eligible for the general? Please, educate me on what would be the perfect way to deal with this ‘problem’
dmsilev
@Turgidson: Just like black holes distort space-time, black voters distort Bernie-space. It’s just physics.
? Martin
@Mike J: Well, we’ve got a few things working in the right direction. No gerrymandering for one, and top two primary vote takers going to the general. If a 3rd party can get enough votes, they’ll be in a head-to-head, and that’s actually feasible given low turnout in the primaries. The main problem is that anyone watching TV or reading papers or blogs would be right to assume that there are no 3rd parties in this country given the primary coverage. There are other primaries, but no reporting, no coverage, no attention.
chopper
@Betty Cracker:
bernie is really trying as hard as possible to utterly destroy down ticket races.
Emma
@? Martin: He had the choice to run as an independent.
? Martin
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): Oh, none are perfect – far from it. But everyone eligible for the general could be a component that opens things up. It would eliminate this 6-month party focus and shift the presidential race from a race between two parties to a race between individuals. There’s be no pivoting to the center, for one. But it would need a number of other components to work – campaign finance reform, things like that. There is no quick fix.
redshirt
@lamh36: Because Barack was always a Democrat.
lamh36
@Poopyman: Right…at the end of every Obama speech, and rally, there were supporters on hand and online and on social media and on phones, trained and ready to get folks not only registered to vote, but also making sure they knew how to make sure they got to vote.
This was from the beginning of the OfA campaign…and before there was any idea of Obama being competitive.
Brachiator
@? Martin:
This is nonsense political rhetoric. It’s about as meaningful as saying that a Republican or Democratic candidate pivots toward the center at a certain point in the campaign.
Let’s see if any of this makes it into the Democratic Party platform or forms a part of the actual governing of an incoming Democratic president.
different-church-lady
@Groucho48: He said he was in it to win it from the get-go.
If he were only trying to push the party to the left, why the hell is he spending so much end-game time attacking it?
? Martin
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
Look, I routinely explain that to other people – you don’t need to explain it to me. So if these are functions of the party, then why does the state regulate and enforce it? Why does the state mandate party registration or limit the rights of people to change party? As soon as they do that it becomes a state function.
msdc
@? Martin:
…except by Sanders and his supporters, who regard it as “pandering” and attack Clinton for doing THE EXACT FUCKING THING HE GOT IN THE RACE TO MAKE HER DO.
Percysowner
@geg6:
I could not be more angry about Sanders dismissal of women’s issues. It’s inexcusable. Ending income inequality is not the be all and end all to making a just society. That said, it’s easier to get people to support equality for women and minorities when they are financially secure. I strongly believe that one of the reasons the Civil Rights Movement and the Women’s Rights Movement were successful in the 1960s was because the standard of living was good and those who had were not as afraid that letting “those people” advance would hurt them financially.
Income inequality isn’t a bug for the Republican Party and not just because it is run by the upper 1% Income inequality is used to set us against them because no one feels financially secure. Income equality is a large piece of the puzzle for having people accept equality for others.
? Martin
@Emma:
And would HRC supporters be happier to have Sanders on the general election ballot? There is no circumstance in which that is better. Of course he had the choice to do that with the almost certainty of helping to elect a Republican to the White House. Let’s give Sanders some credit for not wanting that outcome under any condition. This was the only realistic avenue left open to him.
Davebo
@? Martin:
What would be your preferred solution to end gerrymandering? And I ask honestly.
I have some ideas but I haven’t come up with a solution that takes politics out of every 10 year process of re-evaluating after a Census.
A Ghost To Most
@singfoom:
Sorry,but the Electoral College is baked in, and it directly leads to two dominant parties.
Mnemosyne
@? Martin:
Jungle primaries are working great now that California Republicans are a minority, but I’m not looking forward to the day when I have to choose between Neel Kashkari and Tim Donnelly for Senate because Democratic voters split things too finely. It’s great when your party is the majority, not so great when you’re the minority.
Mike J
@? Martin:
It’s the trade off for spending your career outside of the party. If you believe that we can do great things if we work together, then you work together by joining a party. If you believe you’ll be tainted if you ever have to speak to somebody you have minor policy disagreements with, that’s your own problem.
Felanius Kootea
@redshirt: I think that many Democrats on BJ who may be lukewarm-Hillary but also not rah-rah Bernie supporters are still pro-Democratic Party. When Bernie starts to paint the Democratic Party itself as THE PROBLEM, they go “wait a minute now.” I used to give to both Bernie and Hillary’s campaigns. Not anymore. I was very much annoyed by the “This should anger EVERYONE” Bernie email I received today. By all means figure out how to get enough votes in Congress to overcome Citizens United but don’t ask all candidates to become Russ Feingold. Fat lot of good it did Wisconsin when he lost in 2012. I don’t see how Bernie helps anyone down-ticket and given his stated goals, he knows he would need to bring in a lot of new Democratic congressmen and women and Senators to achieve his “revolution.”
Emma
@? Martin: Then do it right. If all he wanted was to have the progressive/socialist/leftist/whatever viewpoint, he did that, and more power to him. But if you decide to run for president under the aegis of a political party, you damn well make sure you know the rules. And you DON’T telegraph how little you think about the party members by registering AS AN INDEPENDENT for your next run.
? Martin
@msdc:
I’m not going to defend that bullshit. Look, I’ve never really been in the Sanders camp but Democrats would benefit from more ideas floated from the left and I’ll note that you now have two of the largest states with $15 minimum wage coming up, something which was considered politically impossible just a few months ago.
Roger Moore
@? Martin:
Ask the Belgians about gridlock in a multi-party system. You can still get it, and in some ways it’s actually easier than under a two party system; you just have to get a group of parties that don’t want to cooperate. About the only system that’s more or less guaranteed to stop gridlock is the Westminster system.
And, FWIW, the biggest thing that prevents a multi-party system isn’t devious planning by the major parties but plurality voting. As long as the plurality winner gets the prize, there’s a very strong force in favor of exactly two parties.
Starfish
@Baud: John and Anne Laurie are being obnoxious about this. This affects young people who move around a lot. There is no way that anyone should expect that it should take SIX MONTHS from registration for them to be able to vote in the primary. There is no reason to have closed primaries other than to prop up the two party system. And caucuses are also bullshit. And by obnoxious, I mean OLD.
oz29
The cojones — or utter failure at history — that it takes to accuse the Democratic party of being Mean to Bernie is rather stunning. But for the forbearance of the Vermont Democrats, Bernie would be politically irrelevant. After 1990, he never once faced a Democratic candidate who ran a serious, party-backed campaign.
different-church-lady
@Starfish: Read thread, then revise, thank you in advance.
Davebo
@? Martin:
The state runs the elections but they must do so under the guidelines set out by the parties.
The state doesn’t. The parties do. The states election apparatus isn’t run by independents. The Democrats and Republicans run them just like they run everything else about state politics.
And unsurprisingly, some of them choose to limit voter flexibility just as some try to limit voter eligibility.
Mike J
@Roger Moore: I did mention Duverger above.
Mnemosyne
@Felanius Kootea:
This. Ten thousand times this.
? Martin
@Emma:
Not defending any of that either.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: He doesn’t pay attention to politics outside our discussions, so he’s blissfully aware of the BernieBros, shenanigans with Weaver, etc. He’ll vote for Hillz in November like a good boy, so I don’t rub his nose in it. I’ve got y’all for that!
@WaterGirl: Chicken Whisperer, LOL!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
As a Patriots fan, now I truly understand why everyone thinks we cheat. Bill Belichick is a master of details and of ALL the rules, and oh, he always puts himself in a position to win by anticipating how the other team is likely to fail. The Sanders campaign took a deliberately different, whiter path through the political playing field than Obama and Clinton (Belichick) did, for whatever reason, and it’s clear that they chose….. poorly. The Sanders campaign fell irreparably behind on Super Tuesday, in the South, where it was delegate rich. They’ve been flailing to justify that ever since, unleashing the frustration and fury before the inevitable reckoning.
Baud
@Starfish:
It’s a good argument for later. You can’t change the rules on the eve of the primary.
different-church-lady
@Felanius Kootea:
The problem with Bernie is that, in his mind, everybody who isn’t Bernie is the problem.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Felanius Kootea: Hear hear!!
Groucho48
@lamh36:
But, Obama was a Democrat so he didn’t have to worry about arcane registration rules like we in NYS have. And, Obama was in it to win it from the start. Even so, how much of a campaign structure do you think he had in NYS 10 months before the primary? Enough of a structure and enough money to re-register hundreds of thousands of independents as Dems?
I mean, Sanders didn’t even announce he was running until May 26. By July, according to Wiki, he had spent $3 million. How much of that $3 million do you think he should have devoted to registering NYS independents? As opposed to campaigning in the early primary states and just getting a campaign off the ground?
starscream
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Well, the Patriots did also cheat…
? Martin
@Davebo: But why does the state care? Why is this in the state’s interests? Why can’t the state tell the parties, just like they tell everyone else, to just fuck off? No other organization has their membership regulated and enforced by the state.
That the state and the parties have this self-reinforcing relationship is precisely the point. Once a party gains control of government of course they are going to use that power to limit access to anyone outside of the party. That’s what the GOP does with their voter ID laws. That’s what both parties do in concert to protect their organizations through registration laws and primary support. Do people not get that this is the same power reinforcement that results in policies that deliberately or inadvertently discriminate against minority groups? The outcome is obviously different in effect, but the mechanics are very similar and defending those mechanics seems counterproductive to me.
Mnemosyne
@Starfish:
So people who live in states like Mississippi should be forced to choose between 2 Republicans for every office? Because, frankly, in a lot of Southern states, the only thing keeping any Democrats on the ballot is closed primaries.
Starfish
@Baud: Though national awareness of this issue has not existed more than a few days, my sister changed affiliation in January from independent to democrat and was disappointed when she went to find her polling place some months ago to learn that she would not be able to feel the Bern.
redshirt
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: So f’ing true. It’s the absolutely same phenomena. Except Barack is far better looking and about 1000 times more charismatic.
Baud
@Starfish:
Sorry to hear that. This year is the first year I fully realized how undemocratic caucuses are. I really do hope the process is reformed.
Davebo
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
It’s not that the Patriots are following all the rules.
It’s just that somehow losing a 1st round draft pick never seems to hurt them! It’s amazing, but it’s true. Billy can always just do more with less. He should be making more than Roger Goodell!
Mnemosyne
@? Martin:
Because states run elections thanks to the US Constitution. If you want to change that and have the federal government run them instead, you’ll need to pass a constitutional amendment.
And not having any governmental agency overseeing the election of that very government is so fucking insane I don’t even know what to tell you.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@starscream:
Everyone says that about the winners they don’t like. It’s the moral of the story.
redshirt
@? Martin: I agree 100%. The political parties have this quasi-government feel to them and I assume a good deal of voters think they are part of the government.
I’m with G. Washington. No political parties*. Let the candidates fend for themselves.
*Though I can’t see how parties don’t inevitably form, even if de facto. A strong leader could create a party without even intending as followers emulate his/her examples.
PJ
@singfoom: The October date is for people who are already registered to vote (i.e., if they voted in a previous election) but who did not previously indicate they were a member of the Democratic party (which involves checking off a box). No party in New York makes any effort to inform voters of this, presumably because it gives an advantage to incumbents in primaries. It was a big surprise to me when I wanted to vote for Obama in the 2008 primary (I had first voted in 2006 but hadn’t bothered to vote in the primary because it was not a presidential election) and was unable to do so.
Davebo
@? Martin:
Well voting is different from most all other examples yet tons of examples exist of organizations having their membership regulated and enforced by the state.
Yet, again. What are the other options? Parties hold their own primaries/caucuses? Do they contract out for voting locations, staff, etc? Would I have to go to the Astrodome to vote in the GOP caucus and a nearby Denny’s for the Democratic caucus?
It’s just like government itself. If you want to make changes you can. But if you got off the couch 3 months ago and fell in love with a particular candidate you’ll have to get involved and try to change it for the next election.
Starfish
@Mnemosyne: I lived in both Mississippi and Baltimore, and places that are dominated by one party are terrible. The minority party has no party pipe line to develop candidates so all the minority candidates are really weak and under prepared, and the majority party has never seen a stupid idea that it did not love. People can’t choose local candidates of one party and federal candidates of another party in a primary. This sucks where you have to decide to value local elections over federal elections or federal elections over local ones.
The people in the Jackson, Mississippi area who have to live in Mississippi seem to like Jay Hughes.
Starfish
@efgoldman: They are not necessarily moving every three months, but early on in their career, people are following the jobs so people are not necessarily up on THE RULES for an election that happens every four years if they have lived in the state for one.
Mike J
@Mnemosyne:
Not really. There’s not constitutional right to vote, and states needn’t even hold an election to pick the electors that go to the electoral college.
You could argue that elections are mandated by the 17th amendment, and that it should give the feds some control over the process. It would be an interesting argument to have.
Mnemosyne
@Starfish:
IMO, open primaries are far more likely to lead to one-party dominance than closed primaries. That’s why I don’t like them here in California, even when they’re (temporarily) benefiting my preferred party.
Roger Moore
@? Martin:
If he weren’t running from within the Democratic party, he wouldn’t be a credible general election threat. It’s only the publicity from running for a major party nomination that gets him any attention. That’s the big complaint about Sanders: he’s taking advantage of the benefits of being a Democrat without making any real commitment to helping the party. He needs to make up his mind about whether he’s a Democrat or an Independent. If he’s a Democrat, he needs to commit to helping the party whether he wins or loses the nomination. If he’s an Independent, he needs to stop leeching of the Democratic party.
Cacti
@? Martin:
Actually it does matter, quite a lot.
Scrutiny only gets triggered if a political party restricts access to its primary elections in ways that are constitutionally suspect (race, gender, religion, etc.). The only requirements for Democratic party membership for primary election purposes in the present day are: 18 years old, US citizen, and legally entitled to vote in the state of registration.
That’s been the law since Smith v. Allwright (1944).
geg6
@Starfish:
Go fuck yourself, YOUNG asshole. Ignorant git.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Davebo:
Situational coaching. Malcolm Butler, the 5th safety on the squad who came in off the bench, was coached to anticipate the most unlikely goal line play in the history of football and practiced it until he got it right. That wasn’t cheating.
John D.
@Starfish: This is why looking up the number or website for your local board of elections and registering to vote are critical. Exercising just a smidgen more effort and looking up THE RULES at that time doesn’t seem like too much of a burden.
MikeBoyScout
Rules anecdote:
Yesterday at my King County WA Legislative District Democratic party caucus the very serious minded Sanders campaign reps were not satisfied with the 70/30 apportionment of delegates.
To bring “justice” the not at all shouty Sanders folk decided to move to suspend the rules.
The totally in-the-bag for the Establishment Chair accommodated the Sanders motion.
When the count was taken and the result was the motion failed to collect a majority, the Chair ruled that having failed to collect a 2/3 majority, the motion failed.
And the Sanders folk, who are totally not shouty at all asked the Chair for a Point of Order, and declared the caucus a “massive fraud”
The End
Roger Moore
@redshirt:
The 1st Amendment right to freedom of association guarantees that the government can’t ban parties. And it’s fairly obvious that parties are an inherent part of democratic government. Just try to name a single democratic country that doesn’t have them.
geg6
@Starfish:
Since when have registration deadlines been some sort of sooper seekrit message requiring a decoder ring? Jeezus, the stupid, it Berns!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@MikeBoyScout:
That’s some revolutionary shit right there/
PurpleGirl
@lamh36: I think so; at least it’s been closed for as long as I’ve been voting. That’s 30+ years.
Roger Moore
@Mike J:
There’s no right to vote for president, but there is a constitutional right to vote. Article IV section 4 guarantees every state a republican (i.e. based on votes) form of government, and the 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th Amendments guarantee the right to vote in various ways.
redshirt
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Yep. Pats are coached better then any other team and that’s why with even middling talent their always in the hunt; Obama won over Clinton in part because his team was far better prepared to win that primary, whereas you get the feeling Clinton was then already looking forward to the general.
Another fact that has made me like Hillary this cycle is she’s clearly learned a lot from her 2008 run. She’s performing flawlessly. And mostly so is her team.
PJ
@geg6: Nice to see the Hillary supporters are gracious as ever.
PJ
@John D.: It shouldn’t be, but it is. Most citizens of this country are ignorant of how the political process works, in part because they are never educated about it, and in part because the political parties have no interest in making that information known – they are geared towards the people who are active in party politics, not the people who just show up every two, or, more likely, four years.
Mike J
@Roger Moore: None of those amendments give a right to vote. They say that if there are elections, race, sex, payment, and age can’t disqualify you.
As for article 4, Madison said a republic, “is a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people; and is administered by persons holding their offices during pleasure, for a limited period, or during good behavior.” (emph added). There are many undemocratic ways to get to that (which, historically, is what republics did.) Voting isn’t required to meet the letter of the constitution, but at this point it would be (rightly) difficult to do away with voting.
I am a voting enthusiast. I’m all for it. I think it’s important to know how fragile the whole silly system is, and recognize where it could come under attack.
Ken
@Martin:
Other than the lawyers, you mean. And doctors, dentists, nurses, and other healthcare practitioners, including veternarians. Quite often engineers, architects, general contractors, masons, plumbers, electricians, et cetera. Oh, and teachers, though they’re an edge case since they’re often state employees like police and firefighters – which reminds me, private investigators, and sometimes bail bondsmen and repo men.
Also even when the state isn’t actively regulating membership, pretty much any organization can call on the state to enforce their membership rules against some types of violations, such as trespass.
PurpleGirl
@Baud: In NYS all party primaries are closed — you must be registered in a party. You can always check your status at the Bd of Elections website — what party they have you registered and if you are active or not. (IIRC, not voting for a number of years makes you non-active.) I checked my registration this morning and confirmed my polling place.
TriassicSands
In the middle of what? Someone should tell Toni than Bernie is not “in the middle,” if that refers to between the two parties. The level of political ignorance in this country is horrifying.
Note: ad nauseAm
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@redshirt:
Learning from and embracing Obama, the most successful and popular Democratic president of our lifetime, appears to have been the smart play when campaigning to be the Democratic Party’s nominee as his successor. The Sanders campaign and their supporters have rejected everything Obama on their way to losing the right to be the Democratic Party’s nominee. Because Obama, and his winning coalition of young, old, white, female, male, brown, black, urban, suburban and the highly educated, and the infrastructure he built to accomplish all that while being black, is too establishment and corrupt because he figured out the rules.
Exurban Mom
Too late in the thread to be read, but just have to say that I’ve had the shittiest day ever, and the phrase “Pure Artisinal Unicorn” made me laugh out loud for the first time today. I love it and I’m stealing it and using it liberally (ha!) until said unicorn goes back to being mythical/extinct. Thanks, AL, you do a lot around these parts to keep my spirits up.
redshirt
@Exurban Mom: I read it, and lol’d with you. :)
Miss Bianca
@Baud:
Try telling that to some Colorado Democrats of my acquaintance, would you? They might listen to Baud! They don’t appear to want to listen to me.
Miss Bianca
@NR: We don’t think Sanders is evil. Self-righeous? Check. Clueless? Also check. One-note? Check. Loves simple answers to complex questions, therefore Otnay Ootay Rightbay? Check. But not *evil*
scuffletuffle
@Starfish: Presumably every time they move, they manage to get their electricity, wireless internet and cable tv established, but they don’t think about finding out how to register to vote in the new location….How is this everyone else’s problem, rather than a failing on their part, these young people?
Davebo
@geg6:
Over the top there Geg and frankly, not like you. Pet the dog a bit.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@scuffletuffle:
Thank you, as the mother of two millennials who have registered to vote Democratic, as a first thing to do each time they’ve moved, like I always have.
Calouste
@Baud: I hope you’re flabbergasted that Sanders has released fewer tax returns than Romney, because if you’re flabbergasted that some people can be fooled all the time you might be one of them ;)
Davebo
@Ken: Let’s not forget hair stylists and manicure/pedicure workers.
Which reminds me, I really need a haircut and a mani/pedi. The fact that the guys at Reason are pissed that they need to be licensed just makes a pleasurable thing even more pleasurable!
Seriously guys, if you’ve never had a mani/pedi you are nuts! Call me a metrosexual all you want.
Davebo
@? Martin:
Well, if you assume minority groups are as clueless to the electoral process as Sanders’ staff seems to be I would say you are right. But the fact is they seem to have a pretty good handle on the sausage making of electoral politics. For instance, they know their votes count, even in the south.
frosty
@redshirt: I read it out loud to my wife. It was that good.
karen marie
@BernieBros>HillaryBots: I hope this is snark.
Brendan in Charlotte
Oh FFS!!!! As someone who lived 33 of their 50 years on this Earth in New York State, even i knew it’s a closed primary. It’s been a closed primary for forever….
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Betty Cracker:
Welcome to the party…
Sir Nose D'Voidofcks
@BernieBros>HillaryBots:
By our overwhelming support of the Democratic Party and the legal and necessary mechanisms for its continuation and victory, we’ve become Republicans.
2+2=pineapple! feel the Bern.
karen marie
@Groucho48: Anyone who sent Bernie money should have received a reminder of registration/party affiliation deadlines, if he was serious. He/his campaign didn’t know/care enough, and now they’re encouraging locked-out supporters to attack HRC and/or the Dem Party for his/their failure. If Obama did it, Sanders could have too.
Sir Nose D'Voidofcks
Why are all my comments in moderation? Thanks, Obama.
Groucho48
That’s the thing. I don’t think he WAS serious back then. His campaign didn’t really start taking off until the fall and by then there wasn’t enough time to do that stuff. Now, if he HAS been serious about winning from the very start, I agree, this was a screw-up.
burnspbesq
@geg6:
And that’s true regardless of whether any of them actually violated any provision of Title 18 of the United States Code.
Sanders’ pick for Attorney General, if he ever got to make one, would probably be Matt Taibbi.
agorabum
@BernieBros>HillaryBots: It’s not disenfranchisement to have a closed primary. It is disenfranchisement to keep citizens from voting in the general election. This isn’t difficult.
akryan
@BernieBros>HillaryBots: There is no requirement for party affiliation to elect someone. A primary is not an election. No one is elected to any office in a primary, a caucus (talk about disenfranchising!), or any other way that party’s choose their candidates. If you want to be involved in the selection of the candidate that a certain party chooses to represent them in an election, then it is not too much to ask for you to be a member of that party. If you choose not to, you’re still free to vote for whomever you like in the general election in the fall. I love that Bernie has excited so many people, bringing people who may not have even voted before. That said, for a candidate who has spent his entire career calling himself an independent until he decided he needed the Democratic party apparatus to run for president has supporters calling foul play because they need to make that switch too.