Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

There’s always a light at the end of the frog.

“Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on.”

Fight them, without becoming them!

This country desperately needs a functioning Fourth Estate.

with the Kraken taking a plea, the Cheese stands alone.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

I’m more Christian than these people and I’m an atheist.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

There is no right way to do the wrong thing.

“Let’s not pretend [Trump] wants to engage in high-minded discourse.”

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

We won’t go back.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you don’t.

So many bastards, so little time.

Russia bombs Ukraine’s maternity hospitals; Republicans in the House can’t sort out supporting Ukraine.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Beware of advice from anyone for whom Democrats are “they” and not “we.”

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Late Night Open Thread: Brexit? I Hardly Even Touched It!

Late Night Open Thread: Brexit? I Hardly Even Touched It!

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  3. 3.

    Yutsano

    @rikyrah: It’s very much like a couple of Dr Who plots where we’re in the universe where everything has gone sideways. It’s also implied that even aafter the Doctor makes whatever changes to the timeline original one continues. I still keep looking for a big blue box.

  6. 6.

    hellslittlestangel

    A petition to redo the referendum already has over 100,000 signatures. I have a feeling this Brexit is never going to happen. Just an empty temper tantrum — well, a two trillion dollar empty temper tantrum.

  9. 9.

    Cat48

    BBC reports they were told a credit downgrade is coming. I guess the Teaparty is enjoying all the financial destruction.

  14. 14.

    Keith G

    One of the things I find a bit disappointing about the tweets above and other reactions is the of arrogance that seems to permeate.

    The Brexit vote was extreme foolishness both in conception and outcome, yet what happened is understandable. When a significant portion of the population feels taken for granted by the elites who govern them, it is not usual for them to strike out – even in ways that spite their own condition.

    It’s not enough for political leaders just to say, “I am on your side.” At some point there has to be actual facts on the ground that show that favorable governmental actions have been put in place. The fact that so many Labour constituencies voted for Brexit shows this problem in it action.

    Some of those communities have been on their heels since they were knocked about during the Thatcher years. New Labour ended up not being much being improvement. One can sit on the sidelines and point out that those feeling left out, left behind, are acting in a stupid fashion, but that does not change the fact that they do feel like they are becoming lesser citizens a society that is moving on without them.

    These are not conditions isolated to the United Kingdom.

  16. 16.

    Brachiator

    @Luthe:

    Nothing is official until the PM triggers Article 50. So it’s all hot air (for now).

    The EU wants Britain to go as soon as possible. From the Guardian

    The reaction from the EU to Britain’s leave vote has been unequivocal – there is no going back. Not only that but they have told Britain to get a move on in invoking article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, which represents formal notification of the decision to leave.

    Jennifer Rankin and others write:

    The presidents of the European council, commission and parliament – Donald Tusk, Jean-Claude Juncker and Martin Schulz respectively – and Mark Rutte, the prime minister of the Netherlands, who holds the EU’s rotating presidency, said any delay to Britain’s exit would “unnecessarily prolong uncertainty”.

    It may be hot air, but it is hot air in a balloon that is about to pop.

  18. 18.

    amk

    @Keith G: What a load of bs. They kept voting for the party that was force feeding them austerity budget year after year. What did they expect? ukip & boris are gonna save their ignorant asses? This was a spite vote mainly against immigrants by oldies. And the yung’uns thought it was beneath them to turn out and vote.

    Yeah, these are not conditions isolated to the United Kingdom.

  20. 20.

    Keith G

    @Brachiator: ironic isn’t it. One of the factors in the vote was interference from an unelected European bureaucrats. And now that the vote is finished the European governing body is trying to interfere with how the citizens of the United Kingdom process what they have done.

    In a purely legal sense, the referendum was non-binding. Parliament is free to do whatever it wants to do as long as it is willing to face whatever consequences come of its action or inaction. Pretty harsh words from Europe actually adds a bit more fuel to the fire of those people wishing that nothing gets done.

    I mean after all, the scolding of the European Union be damned there is a procedure in place to disconnect. Nothing becomes official until Article 50 is invoked. At this point I think it’s more likely that Article 50 will be invoked, but there is a non-zero chance that somehow this will be sidestepped. Seems to me that chance is more likely to increase if the European Union continues to get mouthy.

  21. 21.

    Keith G

    @amk: The world may not be as simple as some perceive it to be. On the surface I agree with your frustration. I’m just mentioning what I have heard from several months of listening to BBC Radio 4 as I tend to do a lot during the day since I detest American radio.

    It is easy for outsiders to set up judgement on the motivations of others, but remember what I said above: Many of these voters were not voting for The Cameron government. They had been Labour supporters for decades and yet have felt that Labour has not been any more helpful to them than the alternative. That is their lived experience.

  22. 22.

    Brachiator

    @Keith G:

    Some of those communities have been on their heels since they were knocked about during the Thatcher years.

    To go from “Maggie Thatcher was shite” to “I know, let’s leave the EU” is still all kinds of stupid self harm, even if it is understandable. And it is about on the same level as noting that Trump supporters are morons, even if, again, some of their choices are understandable.

    And I have no idea what we can do about leaders who lie to us, who claim they have the answers, but who are not simplistically corrupt. That is too easy a claim to make. Some leaders are hopelessly blinded by their own hatred and distrust of the opposition. They cling to false dogma and outdated ideology.

  24. 24.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Brachiator: I suspect that having voted to jump off the cliff, the Brits are now standing at the edge and looking down at all those sharp pointy rocks and are having 2nd thoughts. I would be very surprised if the rest of Europe in a fit of pique would come up behind the Brits and push them off, because in doing so they just might lose their balance and fall off the cliff too.

    I’ll give this one a little time to see if cooler heads will prevail.

  25. 25.

    hellslittlestangel

    @OzarkHillbilly: I suspect that having voted to jump off the cliff, the Brits are now standing at the edge and looking down at all those sharp pointy rocks and are having 2nd thoughts. I would be very surprised if the rest of Europe in a fit of pique would come up behind the Brits and push them off, because in doing so they just might lose their balance and fall off the cliff too.

    Isn’t that sort of how WWI got started?

  26. 26.

    anderj

    @Keith G:

    ironic isn’t it. One of the factors in the vote was interference from an unelected European bureaucrats. And now that the vote is finished the European governing body is trying to interfere with how the citizens of the United Kingdom process what they have done.

    I might be messing your point, but isn’t the EU not just stating the obvious? The UK decided to leave so let’s discuss the terms asap. The idea that that would make the UK stay to annoy the rest of the idea is not very realistic: it would be political suicide for both the Brexit and Bremain politicians.

    By the way, does this vote mean that the drunk UK bachelors will stop holding their parties all over Europe? Please?

  28. 28.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @hellslittlestangel: All it took was a nudge, but let’s not get carried away with hysterical… ooopps, I mean historical analogies. Europe is a far different place now.

  29. 29.

    anderj

    @OzarkHillbilly: I doubt anyone will push them off the cliff, but I see little room for cooler heads to prevail. It wouldn’t be much of a democracy one were to ingnore this vote or hold a second vote.

    I see the UK as Kansas: a real live expiriment destined to hurt the people who voted for it the most.

  30. 30.

    Brachiator

    @Keith G:

    Seems to me that chance is more likely to increase if the European Union continues to get mouthy.

    It is premature to declare that the EU is all bark and no bite. The financial markets are in turmoil and no one wants this uncertainty to be dragged out.

    And there are already repercussions. Scotland makes noise about another Independence vote, and Spain says that they would oppose EU membership for Scotland because it might energize the Catalan Independence movement. So it’s no longer about what Brits want or their taking their sweet time to figure out what they really want.

    And there are about 65 million displaced persons. And Europe is the destination for many of them. Time and circumstance does not stand still while Cameron tries to work things out. And what do we do with a pro EU parliament now that the voters have spoken?

  32. 32.

    anderj

    And to focus on those that oppose the result seems a but disingenuous. Over 72% of all eligible voters voted, over a million people more vote to leave than to stay. Sure there are people that voted to stay that now want a do over, but they do not count: they have been outvoted. Other than that there is no indication that there is significant new opposition to the Brexit (so by people who originally vote for Brexit who are now opposed to it). And no: the fact that there are some on Twitter is not enough

  33. 33.

    Brachiator

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I’ll give this one a little time to see if cooler heads will prevail.

    This would be a reasonable move. But sometimes events overtake leaders and they cannot find a way back to a reasonable solution.

    Consider: in a rational world, the GOP leadership would gather in a quiet room and conclude that it would be better to risk losing the election than to continue to back a candidate who is not only ignorant and unprepared, but who also is an unstable bully who may reject all GOP policy proposals in favor of his own nutty schemes.

    And although I hope it never happens, I am laughing at a mental image of a President Trump standing next to a Prime Minister Johnson, their wild hairdos waving proudly in the breeze.

    Hmm I need to see if I can go back to sleep.

  34. 34.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @anderj: It was a non binding referendum. We ignore them all the time over here. And it’s not like it had a super majority or anything, and following thru with it could well mean the end of the UK and…. On and on and on. Like I said, I will give cooler heads some time.

    @hellslittlestangel: OK, if you want to go all Godwin, who’s Hitler? Mussolini? Which country is Poland?

  35. 35.

    Keith G

    @anderj: You are right and yet there is nothing in the relevant treaty covering how this particular period of time is supposed to be used.

  36. 36.

    anderj

    @anderj: then again, flirting with leaving gives Britain more leverage then actually leaving. So I expect the UK to delay invoking art. 50 as long as politically possible.

  37. 37.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Brachiator:

    But sometimes events overtake leaders and they cannot find a way back to a reasonable solution.

    Absolutely true, but I’m still not declaring the European common market dead just yet. There is time.

  42. 42.

    hellslittlestangel

    @OzarkHillbilly: No, my original comparison was to WWI, not WWII — totally Godwin-compliant.

    And I agree that there’s a real chance that Parliament will say, fuck this referendum, and the British people will be grateful for it. (ETA: and the EU will wag its finger, tousle Britain’s hair and say, don’t try that again.)

  43. 43.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @raven: I assume you are talking about the cramping? I ended up taking yesterday off as well, tho I did do some work around the place in the morning, but yeah, feeling better until the next bout hits me. Been dealing with them all my life but since I went on the blood thinners they are worse with actual bruising afterwards.

  45. 45.

    Keith G

    @Brachiator: You bring up important points. One thing I will add is that uncertainty in the governing of Europe is going to become an atmospheric condition.

    I do not think that the leadership of the current British Parliament will be brave enough to do the right thing and ignore the results of the referendum. Maybe if new Parliamentary elections were called, that future Parliament would be so constituted as to be able to do that. In that case, what would be in the best interests of the EU? Would it be to continue to push the “no dice you have to leave line” or wood they’d all be better off with a bit of a kiss and make-up. Both seem very problematic and filled with uncertainties.

    For some time, the overarching problem has been that the government of the European Union has needed reform. The immediate problem now is that it’s nearly impossible to be able to address the need for reform in the middle of a crisis such as this. None the less, even if the UK divorce goes through immediately and the EU is as punitive as possible, the need for reform will still exist. There are still other countries having significant voting blocks that are unhappy with the way the European Union currently operates.

  46. 46.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @hellslittlestangel:

    totally Godwin-compliant.

    Heh. I’m just waiting to see if anyone is actually willing to take the next step. Nobody seems to have thought the Leave campaign would actually succeed, not even the Leave campaign. Kind of like the dog that catches the car: Now what?

  47. 47.

    raven

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’ve really been bruising and bleeding easily lately. Last week the doc said I need to be taking those low dose aspirins, if I only took care of mself like I do Lil Bit!

  49. 49.

    hellslittlestangel

    @OzarkHillbilly: Or like shutting down the government, as right-wingers like to do from time to time. They beat their chests for a few minutes, then open it back up again under pressure from the people they’ve pissed off.

  51. 51.

    rikyrah

    The thing that kills me is that lying piece of shyt for leave going on TV the morning after and admitting “yeah, I lied about the money for health care ”
    ?????

  52. 52.

    NotMax

    @raven

    Old enough to be given children’s aspirin again.

    More seriously, might be a sound reason to get those hernias taken care of.

  55. 55.

    raven

    @NotMax: Oh, there could be a relationship? I go in for a “colonoscopy consultation” next week and I thought I’d ask what he thinks. My appointment with the hernia dude is the 14th so I feel, even though I am fighting it, the hernia thing is on the way.

  58. 58.

    ericblair

    @anderj: The EU wants the UK to shit or get off the pot for that reason. Having the UK leave is bad, but having a member sitting in EU meetings with a grenade in his hand is an existential threat to the organization.

    None of the other EU governments want the UK to leave and they won’t force the UK out, but there would be a certain amount of shit that Britain would have to eat before everyone kisses and makes up. You don’t want this to be a viable negotiation tactic.

    And my sympathies to all the UKers out there caught in this shitshow. It’s going to keep tearing families apart for a long time.

  59. 59.

    NotMax

    @raven

    Not a doctor (and don’t play one on the intertubes) but it doesn’t hurt to mention the situation and ask.

    Too easy to make a cheeky crack about a “colonoscopy consultation.”   ;)

  61. 61.

    raven

    @NotMax: Well, that’s what my doc called it but I know they are just going to schedule me. They put me on the 2 year rotation after my last one. Could be worse.

  63. 63.

    raven

    @Immanentize: Asymptomatic hernia(s) diagnosed a year ago. I guess I’m resigned to having them fixed whether I like it or not. Thanks BJ!

  64. 64.

    Greenergood

    England and Wales voted to leave the EU; Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay. The run-up to the EU referendum was very similar to the run-up to the Scottish independence referendum in 2014. The 2014 indy ref was perceived by Westminster as a way of placating the annoying Scots by giving them a referendum which everyone knew would confim that Scotland wanted to stay in the United Kingdom by a large margin. Instead, the indy campaign took off and two weeks before the ref, a couple of polls found independence squeaking ahead, and Westminster went nuts. First, the MSM screamed STAY!! in all their headlines, Project Fear was launched: old ladies were told they wouldn’t be allowed to practice their religion, and would lose their pensions; we were told Scotland was too poor, too wee, too glaikit (Scots for gormless) to go it alone. Then Westminster sent all their big beasts to Scotland, promising us rainbow-pissing unicorns and untrammeled love if we voted to stay. Promising us a post-referendum ‘commission’ to examine Scotland’s place in the UK with the aim of furthering devolved powers to the Scottish Parliament. And that if we opted for independence, WE WOULD HAVE TO LEAVE THE EUROPEAN UNION, and there would be border checkpoints between Scotland ahd England. And we fell for it, and voted to stay 55% to 45% leave. And Westminster proceeded to piss on us from a great height, completely ignoring every single recommendation of dozens made to the Smith Commission regarding further devolutionary powers, and imposing cruel austerity policies. Scotland has a promising future in renewables – wind and wave power, but Westminster has slashed renewables subsidies to the bone, while promoting, yes, FRACKING. In 2015, in the UK elections, 56 out of 59 elected Members of Westminster Parliament were from the Scottish National Party, with one Tory, one Labour, and one Liberal Democrat. The one Tory is now the Secretary of State for Scotland. Scotland’s oil has subsidised tax cuts for the wealthy for 40+ years, while the decidedly anti-nuclear population of Scotland is host to the UK nuclear weapons ‘deterrent’, the four nuclear Trident ballistic missile submarines only 30 miles from Scotland’s densely populated Central Belt, and Westminster is about to give the green light to a £200 BILLION replacement programme, while food banks pop up like mushrooms in Glasgow and elsewhere. The UK committee that negotiates with the EU on fishing and farming, both vital to Scotland’s economy, has not one Scottish member. We watched the EU referendum run-up as though re-watching a bad horror movie. The EU ref was cooked up by David Cameron to demolish the pesky right-wing UK Independence Party, and a barrelful of annoying right-winig Tory MPs. Boy, did that go well. Project Fear 2 stalked the land, , with immigration playing Godzilla. AND NOW ENGLAND AND WALES HAVE VOTED TO LEAVE THE EUROPEAN UNION. We watched the Leave campaign’s big beasts at their post-referendum ‘victory’ press conference yesterday morning and saw men who have no Plan A, no clue as to what they’re going to do, now that they’ve ‘got their counrty back’. Is it any wonder that Scotland wants another independence referendum. Not tomorrow, or next week – we’re all voted out, having been through 4 different election cycles in 2 years. Yes, the EU is a huge, bloated, bureaucratic pudding, but it has some vital institutions as well, such as the Court of Human Rights, that the Tory government regard as hindrances to their sole goal, which is facilitating the tax-dodging, off-shoring 0.001%

  67. 67.

    Sloane Ranger

    Latest from Brexit. Leave spokesman has just said they never promised to reduce immigrant numbers. It is ridiculous to think that anyone here would be forced to leave and those who voted Leave understood this.

    YOU SHOULD TALK TO YOUR VOTERS IDIOT. IF THE MASS DEPORTATIONS HAVEN’T STARTED BY AUGUST AT THE LATEST THEY WILL WANT YOUR HEAD!!!

    Sorry for shouting. I am meant to be preparing a presentation on the Role and status of women in the 1960’s but get diverted by wanting to throw something at the radio every time the latest perfectly foreseeable catastrophe is announced.

  68. 68.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Keith G:

    Some of those communities have been on their heels since they were knocked about during the Thatcher years. New Labour ended up not being much being improvement. One can sit on the sidelines and point out that those feeling left out, left behind, are acting in a stupid fashion, but that does not change the fact that they do feel like they are becoming lesser citizens a society that is moving on without them.

    These are not conditions isolated to the United Kingdom.

    Indeed, this is just like the discussion of the “unnecessariat” in devastated American white working-class communities going Trumpist. Sure, they feel hard done by. They are correctly diagnosing that there is a problem. But they keep doing it to themselves (in the US, by electing austerian Republican state governments over and over), because the specific thing they insist is happening is that the government is privileging brown people and foreigners over them. And the only way to get their votes is to hurt brown people and foreigners; since they’re bigots, they cannot be convinced otherwise. So there’s no way to unwind this decently or sanely–we’re either at an impasse or we jump off the cliff.

  69. 69.

    Splitting Image

    @Keith G:

    One of the factors in the vote was interference from an unelected European bureaucrats. And now that the vote is finished the European governing body is trying to interfere with how the citizens of the United Kingdom process what they have done.

    In a purely legal sense, the referendum was non-binding. Parliament is free to do whatever it wants to do as long as it is willing to face whatever consequences come of its action or inaction. Pretty harsh words from Europe actually adds a bit more fuel to the fire of those people wishing that nothing gets done.

    I mean after all, the scolding of the European Union be damned there is a procedure in place to disconnect. Nothing becomes official until Article 50 is invoked. At this point I think it’s more likely that Article 50 will be invoked, but there is a non-zero chance that somehow this will be sidestepped. Seems to me that chance is more likely to increase if the European Union continues to get mouthy.

    This isn’t about the English and their precious little feelings anymore. France, for example, doesn’t give a shit whether the UK stays or goes. It does, however, care about the Le Pen movement and its potential for forming a government in France. If the French think that the morons in UKIP are empowering the Front National, they will try to wreck the UK’s economy rather than let French voters think that the main plank in the FN’s platform is a viable policy. Ditto Germany.

    Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson may be idiots who have no idea what to do now that they’ve caught the car, but some of the other “Euro-skeptic” parties are genuine fascists. The rest of the EU has to deal with the consequences of UKIP’s idiocy in their own countries and they have a right to try to manage the situation to their own benefit.

  70. 70.

    TriassicSands

    Worth remembering that #brexit is happening because a center-right party threw a bone to its lunatic fringe to save a flagging campaign.

    Yes, but it took a lot more than a fringe to make “Leave” win. As in the US, the lunatic fringe has grown far beyond what can be called a fringe. Lunatic? Yes. Fringe. Nope.

  71. 71.

    TriassicSands

    What is perhaps the least fair aspect of the “Leave” vote is that old people, who won’t be around that much longer, voted overwhelmingly to subject the young to their narrow, xenophobic world view for the rest of the young peoples’ much longer lives.

    I opposed the Scottish independence vote a couple of years ago. Now, I hope they vote to leave the UK and remain in the EU.

    David Cameron: master politician outsmarts himself.

  73. 73.

    SFAW

    @NotMax:

    Liberté, égalité, fraternité, et hernie.

    Allons, enfants de la Hernie!
    Le jour de gloire est arrivé!

  74. 74.

    SFAW

    This may have been covered elsewhere, but I’m confused by something:

    I thought I had seen snippets of two news items:
    1) Trump said Brexit is a good thing
    2) Trump blames Obama for Brexit.

    Did I mis-read? Or is Trump trying to play it both ways? (I mean, more than he normally does.)

  75. 75.

    Citizen_X

    Yesterday, the British people stood athwart history, and yelled Stop.

    And promptly got flattened by a lorry doing 110.

  76. 76.

    LAC

    @SFAW: well, this is a man who thinks Afgan is a country, so it is possible that those two thoughts are rattling about that abandoned barn of a brain.

  78. 78.

    celticdragonchick

    @Greenergood:

    I’m part of the greater Scottish diaspora here in America.

    I was ambivalent about the 2014 vote. I emotionally would like to see independence, but there were good economic and political reasons to keep the UK.

    That is done. Scotland needs to get out and go her own way.

  79. 79.

    LAC

    @TriassicSands: exactly! I listened to some interviews of some “ordinary” Brits and they were always banging on about how the missus and me can’t walk in the park without ‘earing different languages and blah blah. Immigration made England interesting and its food palatable. Of course it was okay to stomp through other countries back in the day and make chin lee or Akmed serve you fucking tea with white gloves, right?
    And if you google about this referendum after you voted for it, then congrats – you are proving the Mayans right.

  80. 80.

    sigaba

    @SFAW: For 2, think of it as “Brexit happened because of Obama.” And yes, this position can play both ways. Heads, America is Great Again, Tails Obama Lost.

  81. 81.

    sigaba

    @LAC: “Immigration made England interesting and its food palatable.”

    Pet peeve: people who instantly cite “good food” as a primary benefit of multiculturalism.

  84. 84.

    LAC

    @sigaba: actually a culture’s food is important source of education as to its people and a way to bridge gaps between people. It becomes a part of the history of the country and a reflection of where a country is at in the world. It is interesting to me that you can have a traditional high tea as well as the best Indian food in one country. I find it interesting that Britons are enjoying their tea with American cupcakes. When I was there in the 70’s it was not like that. If that sounds silly, I’m sorry.

  85. 85.

    Emma

    @SFAW: Both news items. He says that because Obama spoke out against the Brexit it somehow triggered the opposition. And he lurves himself the Brexit because a lower pound means more business for his golf club.

    And no, he really wasn’t trying to do anything in particular. He’s been regurgitating word salad ever since he arrived in Scotland. And the Scots have been beating him over the head like a rented mule.

  86. 86.

    sigaba

    So if the Spaniards are saying “British Refugees Welcome,” does that mean they would now support Scottish membership in the EU? Or are they only taking refugees one at a time? :)

    @LAC: Just remember a lot of people are scared and anxious, not for particularly rational or defensible reasons. But, we don’t want to mock them with, “Yes you’ve lost your job and the Mooslims beheaded that guy on a street corner in central London last year, but you should set all that aside because Lamb Korma is yummy.” Hopefully we can make our case better than that.

  87. 87.

    Miss Bianca

    @Greenergood: thank you for posting and giving us the perspective from Scotland. I hope you keep doing so.

    In the light of what you describe as the lead-up to the Independence vote, this Brexit shit must be doubly crazy-making. From where I was sitting in CO, I thought Scottish independence made sense to the heart, but not to the head. Now I’m starting to think that it’s England, not Scotland, that has precipitated the break-up of the UK and at this point, almost anything goes.

  88. 88.

    Miss Bianca

    @Sloane Ranger: I am very sorry to hear about it. Yeah, it’s depressing as hell from this side of the ocean to watch British politicians and citizens running around screaming “whocouldaknode?!” Somehow I nurtured the delusion that the British were slightly more politically aware than most Americans. Wrong!

  91. 91.

    The Sheriff's A Ni-

    @Keith G: Except that Labour’s current leadership is a Che t-shirt. And was about as useful as one leading up to the referendum.

  92. 92.

    SFAW

    @Emma:

    He’s been regurgitating word salad ever since he arrived in Scotland.

    How unlike his normal US behavior.

    Next you’ll be shocking me by telling me that Sarah Palin said something that didn’t quite make sense.

  93. 93.

    Charlie

    It seems to me that George Bush, who destabilized the Mideast and thus created the immigration crisis, and Angela Merkel and the other austerity hawks whose policies stunted the recovery in Europe share a lot of the blame for Brexit.

  94. 94.

    SFAW

    @sigaba:

    Pet peeve: people who instantly cite “good food” as a primary benefit of multiculturalism.

    Perhaps, but when I hear the terms “English cuisine” — or “Irish cuisine,” for that matter — I assume the speaker is either being ironic, or not very bright. Or has “boiling the crap out of food” become a new requirement for “cuisine,” and I missed it? Maybe that’s the new thing on this season of “Chopped”?

  95. 95.

    SFAW

    @Charlie:

    It seems to me that George Bush, who destabilized the Mideast

    How did throwing Saddam out of Kuwait destabilize the Mideast? That was 25 years ago! I think it was more likely to be Clinton’s fault — and Hitlary’s more than Bill’s.

  97. 97.

    SFAW

    @Emma:

    Meaning Scotland’s response to him? Or something else that I’m missing? (outside of a clue, that is)

    ETA: Nit/pet peeve: his behavior is “normal” for HIM, not for sentient humans, I assume you mean.

  99. 99.

    sigaba

    @Greenergood: Would Scotland even have to hold another plebiscite at this point, it seems like the Scottish parliament has enough legitimacy in the face of events to just hold a vote. Or is there some kind of constitutional requirement for a national referendum?

  100. 100.

    The Sheriff's A Ni-

    @Brachiator: The point of the referendum, at least from the Tories, was to get a close Remain vote so they could use it as leverage in negotiations with the EU. “Our people are unhappy, give us even more favorable terms to stay in.” Rather than catching the Vauxhall, however, the Vauxhall backed over them. Now the leverage is completely on the EU’s side. “You want to stay in, you take this offer you can’t refuse.”

    Either Parliament hits the Article 50 button, which likely completely detonates what’s left of the United Kingdom. Or they take whatever the EU offers, giving the continentals their biggest victory since Castillon.

  101. 101.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @SFAW: He should have been more specific and referred to the deserting coward specifically and not given you an opening.

  102. 102.

    SFAW

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    He should have been more specific and referred to the deserting coward specifically and not given you an opening.

    “Deserting coward”? About whom are you writing? There was only ONE President Bush, according to today’s Republican Party (a/k/a “The Party of Personal Responsibility – for Everyone Else”). EVERYONE knows that 9/11 happened during Bill/Hitlary Clinton’s term, and that it was Obama who invaded Iraq and also nearly destroyed the Economy (on purpose!) during the 2008 Recession.

  103. 103.

    Emma

    @SFAW: The Scots (and English) twitter blew up. People went out of their way to invent new offensive names for him. Here’s an example. I, myself, I’m going with “utter cockwomble” as my favorite.

  104. 104.

    SFAW

    @Emma:

    You are a wonderful person for having provided that link.

    “Cockwomble”?

    ETA: I also liked “jizztrumpet” and “shitgibbon.” Not very Joycean — well, he was Irish, after all — but still classics.

  105. 105.

    Barry

    @SFAW: “How did throwing Saddam out of Kuwait destabilize the Mideast? That was 25 years ago! I think it was more likely to be Clinton’s fault — and Hitlary’s more …”

    Ah, Republican history, where George HW Bush had only one son, named Jeb.

  107. 107.

    LAC

    @sigaba: I really do not know what your issue is with this one line. You do bang on about it. I am not mocking them. England is a more interesting country because of immigration.

    I get people’s anxiety, but perhaps voting and being politically and socially engaged and not blaming immigrants wholesale is a better strategy too. I get real tired of having to worry about soothing some (usually) white person’s anxiety and having smile through gritted teeth while they give me a crash course in bigoted thought 101. And then expect a cookie for expressing feelings. And meanwhile it is some well to do white guy in a suit with his hands in that person’s pockets that they should actually look out for.

    And funny, the only times I hear the word “multiculturalism” used, it is usually as a slur.

  108. 108.

    sigaba

    @LAC: I’m done, I just pointed it out once and gave one comment in elaboration. “Good food” is an obnoxious justification for social policy– people should welcome immigrants because they bring vitality and cultural diversity, and because being welcoming of others is the least we can do for each other in recognition of our universal human dignity. Also they NEED them, the economy will collapse without them.

    Blue-collar Labor voters get pissed the fuck off when twee hipster millenials from Islington with tech jobs defend open borders with “Teh Indian restaurants in Mayfair rule!” It’s totally flippant and insensitive.

  109. 109.

    Sloane Ranger

    @sigaba: I’m not an expert but I think the Scottish parliament only has competence over issues specifically devolved to it by Westminster. Also the SNP lost its overall majority in the last election. It’s possible they would lose a vote if the other parties combined against them.

    My current nightmare is PM Boris refusing them a referendum the Scots going ahead anyway and declaring UDI on the back of a Yes vote.

    I’m not convinced that Boris and Gove wouldn’t think it a good idea to send in the army in order to “save the Union”.

  110. 110.

    Emma

    @Sloane Ranger: More to the point in the practical sense, the Scots have better be ready and clear-headed. Spain has already objected to admitting them to the EU (they don’t want the Catalans to get any ideas). Other nations facing their own regional independence movements are probably considering similar objections. So if the Scots separate on their own without written-in-blood promises from the EU, they literally won’t have a currency. No pounds and no euros. The Evil Twins could just sit there are laugh.

  111. 111.

    Sloane Ranger

    @Emma: Nicola Sturgeon is a smart cookie. She won’t do anything until she’s sure she’s got all her ducks in a row. That’s why she didn’t call for an immediate referendum and why her cabinet are currently engaged in a charm offensive throughout the European corridors of power.

  112. 112.

    NotMax

    @Emma

    That possibility fits the old stereotype of parsimonious Scots to a T.

    Or they could invent a coinage, say Caebhandagattbraonslaenge (pronounced “Smith”).

    ;)

  114. 114.

    sigaba

    @Sloane Ranger: “I’m not an expert but I think the Scottish parliament only has competence over issues specifically devolved to it by Westminster.”

    I suppose that’s true from a strictly legal standpoint, but Scotland declaring independence is definitively non-legal. The Constitutional Convention of 1776 didn’t have competence over any issues whatsoever but it still initiated a successful exit (ok, yeah, there was a big war over it).

  115. 115.

    SFAW

    @Barry:

    Ah, Republican history, where George HW Bush had only one son, named Jeb.

    That’s the only way Jeb could get to be The Smart One, I’m a-thinkin’.

  117. 117.

    Dmbeaster

    @Keith G: Uh, mouthy would define the Brits. Right now, they are the angry spouse yelling “I want a divorce,” but makes no plans to move out. The rest of the EU has no reason to wait patiently in an atmosphere of chaos while the Brits sort it out. Their self interest is to make it happen and try to find stability once its done. There is little upside in waiting to see if the Brits “really mean it.”

  118. 118.

    Singular

    @Greenergood: I feel you, brother or sister.

    Call me hopelessly naïve, but I just can’t get over the fact that lying in politics now has literally zero consequences. Because now all that matters is the headline-grabbing, bus-cladding soundbite. The media is a fucking sick, sad joke, and the ghosts of decent journalists must be howling in the ether.

    Was it always like this? Was it always this bad, a chunk of pols were always scheming bastards, but this blatant?

  119. 119.

    Singular

    @Dmbeaster: Please, and this isn’t directed at you solely. Stop referring to the “Brits”. At least don’t do it 3 times in 3 lines. You are talking about the English and the Welsh, and fuck knows what the Welsh were thinking.

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