Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

In short, I come down firmly on all sides of the issue.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

This fight is for everything.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Let’s finish the job.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Breaking News: Melania Trump Worked in the US Illegally Before She Had a Work Visa

Breaking News: Melania Trump Worked in the US Illegally Before She Had a Work Visa

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The Associated Press has just reported out that Melania Trump worked illegally in the US before she had a work visa (h/t: Talking Points Memo).

WASHINGTON (AP) — Melania Trump was paid for 10 modeling jobs in the United States worth $20,056 that occurred in the seven weeks before she had legal permission to work in the country, according to detailed accounting ledgers, contracts and related documents from 20 years ago provided to The Associated Press.

Mrs. Trump, who received a green card in March 2001 and became a U.S. citizen in 2006, has always maintained that she arrived in the country legally and never violated the terms of her immigration status. During the presidential campaign, she has cited her story to defend her husband’s hard line on immigration.

The wife of the GOP presidential nominee, who sometimes worked as a model under just her first name, has said through an attorney that she first came to the U.S. from Slovenia on Aug. 27, 1996, on a B1/B2 visitor visa and then obtained an H-1B work visa on Oct. 18, 1996.

The documents obtained by the AP show she was paid for 10 modeling assignments between Sept. 10 and Oct. 15, during a time when her visa allowed her generally to be in the U.S. and look for work but not perform paid work in the country. The documents examined by the AP indicate that the modeling assignments would have been outside the bounds of her visa.

As you can imagine this will be a developing story over the weekend and into the election, specific what, if any, effect it has on the election’s outcome.

The documents obtained by the AP included ledgers, other accounting documents and a management agreement signed by Mrs. Trump from Metropolitan International Management that covered parts of 1996 and 1997. The AP obtained the files this week after seeking copies since August from employees of the now-defunct modeling firm, after Mrs. Trump made comments earlier this summer that appeared inconsistent with U.S. immigration rules.

A New York immigration lawyer whom Mrs. Trump asked to review her immigration documents, Michael J. Wildes, also reviewed some of the ledgers at AP’s request. Wildes said in a brief statement that “these documents, which have not been verified, do not reflect our records including corresponding passport stamps.” He did not elaborate or answer additional questions asking for clarification. Wilde appeared to be referring to Mrs. Trump’s arrival in the United States on Aug. 27, 1996, one day after the ledgers list a charge for car service to pick up Mrs. Trump from the airport. Trump campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks also did not answer additional written questions from the AP.

The AP appears to have dotted all their “i”s and crossed all their “t”s with this reporting.

During that seven-week period, the ledgers list modeling work for clients that included Fitness magazine and Bergdorf Goodman department store. The management agreement, which said it was not an employment agreement, included a handwritten date of Aug. 27, 1996. The top of the document said it was “made and entered into as of this 4th day of September 1996.”

Many of the documents were part of a legal dispute related to the dissolution of the firm in the late 1990s and found recently in storage. The accounting ledgers for the firm’s models were listed on hundreds of pages of continuously fed paper that appeared yellowed with age. They were authenticated by a former employee who worked at the firm at the time. The employee spoke on condition of anonymity because this person feared retaliation and threats from Trump’s presidential campaign.

Exhibit markings with the records were also consistent with documents filed in New York state court, including a deposition of one former partner that referred to the same exhibit number. The sworn testimony describing the exhibit’s content matches the documents obtained by the AP.

A former partner, Paolo Zampolli, who previously told the AP that he recruited Mrs. Trump to come to the U.S. as a model, confirmed that the contract language was used by his firm and his signature appeared on the document. Mrs. Trump’s signature on the contract resembled her signature on her marriage license recorded in 2005. Asked about the two dates on the document, Zampolli said he usually vacationed in Europe each August and likely arranged for the contract to be formally executed when he returned to New York after Labor Day, even though Mrs. Trump had signed it eight days earlier.

Zampolli previously told the AP that Mrs. Trump obtained a work visa before she modeled professionally in the United States. He said the ledgers for Mrs. Trump were consistent with printouts used by his firm at the time, but he would not personally vouch for them because he said money matters were handled by the company’s chief financial officer, who has since died.

Finally,

It is highly unlikely that the discovery will affect the citizenship status of Mrs. Trump. The government can seek to revoke the U.S. citizenship of immigrants after the fact in cases when it determines a person willfully misrepresented or concealed facts relevant to his naturalization. But the government effectively does this in only the most egregious cases, such as instances involving terrorism or war crimes.

 

Reader Interactions

253Comments

  1. 1.

    Trentrunner

    This is the 3,216th worst thing Mr. & Mrs. Trump have done.

    If this is Hillary’s October surprise (and I actually think her team is above this kind of thing), it’s pretty lame.

  4. 4.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Trentrunner: Are you kidding? It’s hilarious!

    I was one of the ones who figured nobody had anything to drop, but I guess I was wrong. Tame perhaps but absolutely hilarious, and it gets immigration back in the spotlight which is a game that has only made Trump look good with his already-voting base and bad to everybody else. Might fire up some minority voters.

  7. 7.

    SiubhanDuinne

    My only real quibble with this story is on the “Trump is a hypocrite” front.

    And we’ve known that for a very long time time. (He is, after all, a Republican.)

  9. 9.

    GrandJury

    Meh, bit of a nothingburger if it’s a Republican. If it was a Democratic spouse…omgzzz fire and brimstone. It really is that lopsided for controversy. Even though Repubs are the anti immigrant party, media will turn a blind eye to the obvious hypocrisy as usual. They have a horse race to sell!

  10. 10.

    Major Major Major Major

    And, I mean, it might ding him a little bit in the polls, whatever. You all know I think this thing has been sewn up for a while. Maybe it’ll depress the 20,000 Republicans downballot we need it to. But it is HILARIOUS.

  11. 11.

    dmsilev

    But the government effectively does this in only the most egregious cases, such as instances involving terrorism or war crimes.

    Well, she’s arguably supporting someone who seems to be inciting violence on a regular basis. Maybe that counts. On the flip side, perhaps we could just sentence her to time already served as the spouse of Donald Trump and call it a wash.

  12. 12.

    Comrade Scrutinizer

    Meh. So what? There are SO many horrible things the Trump campaign and Trump himself have done. This is more of a distraction than anything else.

  13. 13.

    dr. bloor

    But the government effectively does this in only the most egregious cases, such as instances involving terrorism or war crimes.

    Well, the most benign spin you can put on her husband’s campaign has been that he has been a Useful Idiot for a foreign power seeking to undermine the democracy.

    Deport her fucking ass, and pray that her husband takes it on the lam before he ends up in jail.

  17. 17.

    Lizzy L

    It’s 20 years ago, and it’s trivial. Nobody will care. If the Clinton folks are smart — and I believe they are — they will say nothing about this at all, and if the chatterers try to make a thing of it, they should just shrug and say positive things about Hilz. The cyber-war with the Russians: now, that’s interesting. I would like someone to ask Trump about that…

  19. 19.

    Trentrunner

    @Omnes Omnibus: You know, I think documented animal cruelty would actually ruin Trump’s candidacy, where sexual assault and everything else hasn’t.

    Think of all the NFL players who beat/rape women, yet who gets actual jail time and universal social opprobrium? Michael Vick, dogfighter.

  27. 27.

    guachi

    I’m having fun using it to bash my idiot Republican friends on Facebook. And the judges order in NC to stop the voter purge in NC to highlight what actual illegal vote rigging really looks like, and the Chris Christie/GW Bridge verdicts to show what actual illegal corruption look like.

  28. 28.

    Adam L Silverman

    For those that wanted a sex scandal, here’s one from the Wall Street Journal:
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/national-enquirer-shielded-donald-trump-from-playboy-models-affair-allegation-1478309380

    By JOE PALAZZOLO, MICHAEL ROTHFELD and LUKAS I. ALPERT
    Nov. 4, 2016 9:29 p.m. ET
    68 COMMENTS
    The company that owns the National Enquirer, a backer of Donald Trump, agreed to pay $150,000 to a former Playboy centerfold model for her story of an affair a decade ago with the Republican presidential nominee, but then didn’t publish it, according to documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal and people familiar with the matter.

    The tabloid-newspaper publisher reached an agreement in early August with Karen McDougal, the 1998 Playmate of the Year. American Media Inc., which owns the Enquirer, hasn’t published anything about what she has told friends was a consensual romantic relationship she had with Mr. Trump in 2006. At the time, Mr. Trump was married to his current wife, Melania.

    Quashing stories that way is known in the tabloid world as “catch and kill.”

    In a written statement, the company said it wasn’t buying Ms. McDougal’s story for $150,000, but rather two years’ worth of her fitness columns and magazine covers as well as exclusive life rights to any relationship she has had with a then-married man. “AMI has not paid people to kill damaging stories about Mr. Trump,” the statement said.

    Hope Hicks, a Trump campaign spokeswoman, said of the agreement with Ms. McDougal: “We have no knowledge of any of this.” She said that Ms. McDougal’s claim of an affair with Mr. Trump was “totally untrue.”

    Ms. McDougal expected her story about Mr. Trump to be published, people familiar with the matter said. American Media didn’t intend to run it, said another person familiar with the matter. Ms. McDougal didn’t return calls for comment.

    Mr. Trump and American Media Chairman and Chief Executive Officer David J. Pecker are longtime friends. Since last year, the Enquirer has supported Mr. Trump’s presidential bid, endorsing him and publishing negative articles about some of his opponents.

    In a written statement, Mr. Pecker said that it is no secret that he and Mr. Trump are friends and that he greatly admires him. However, he said, the Enquirer under his management “set the agenda” on Mr. Trump’s affair with Marla Maples when he was married to his first wife. “That in itself speaks volumes about our commitment to investigative reporting,” he said.

    A contract reviewed by the Journal gave American Media exclusive rights to Ms. McDougal’s story forever, but didn’t obligate the company to publish it and allowed the company to transfer those rights. It barred her from telling her story elsewhere. The company said it also would give her monthly columns to write and would put her on magazine covers.

    AMI said in a written statement the company was pleased to hire Ms. McDougal as a columnist.

    The tabloid publisher didn’t publish Ms. McDougal’s story of the alleged extramarital affair even after Mr. Trump’s alleged relationships with and comments about women became a campaign issue. In October, the Washington Post published a videotape made by “Access Hollywood” of Mr. Trump, in which he spoke of groping women. Several women subsequently said publicly that he had made unwanted sexual advances.

    Mr. Trump has denied their accounts and apologized for his remarks on the tape, calling them locker-room banter.

    Ms. McDougal, who continued modeling after appearing in Playboy, told several of her friends she had a relationship for about 10 months with Mr. Trump, beginning in 2006 and lasting into 2007, according to people familiar with her account. Another friend told the Journal that Ms. McDougal’s relationship with Mr. Trump lasted about a year.

    A friend of Ms. McDougal’s recalled attending the Miss Universe pageant at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles as a guest of Mr. Trump in 2006. Mr. Trump’s limousine picked up Ms. McDougal and her at Ms. McDougal’s Beverly Hills home, and the two women sat in the front row with Mr. Trump and music producers Quincy Jones and David Foster. Mr. Trump escorted them home, the friend said.

    Messages left with representatives for Messrs. Jones and Foster weren’t immediately returned.

    In July, Ms. McDougal was in talks with producers at ABC News to tell her story, but she ultimately agreed to the deal with AMI, guided by her lawyer Keith Davidson, according to two people familiar with the discussions.

    “I did indeed represent Ms. McDougal and currently represent Ms. McDougal in her negotiations with American Media Inc. to provide services to them,” Mr. Davidson said.

    Mr. Davidson also represented Stephanie Clifford, a former adult-film star whose professional name is Stormy Daniels and who was in discussions with ABC’s “Good Morning America” in recent months to publicly disclose what she said was a past relationship with Mr. Trump, according to people familiar with the talks. Ms. Clifford cut off contact with the network without telling her story. She didn’t respond to requests for comment.

    An ABC spokesperson declined to comment on Ms. McDougal or Ms. Clifford.

    The Trump spokeswoman, Ms. Hicks, said it was “absolutely, unequivocally” untrue that Ms. Clifford had a relationship with Mr. Trump.

    Mr. Davidson’s work for Ms. McDougal was in connection with “claims against Donald Trump and or assisting client in negotiating a confidentiality agreement and/or life rights related to interactions with Donald Trump and/or negotiating assignment of exclusive press opportunities regarding same,” according to a copy of Mr. Davidson’s agreement to represent her, which was reviewed by the Journal.

    The agreement between Ms. McDougal and AMI doesn’t mention Mr. Trump by name, but gives the publisher the rights to “any romantic, personal and/or physical relationship McDougal has ever had with any then-married man.” The document says AMI is entitled to damages of at least $150,000 if she discloses her story elsewhere on social media or gives interviews about it.

    Ms. McDougal hasn’t appeared in or written for any AMI publications since signing the agreement, according to a person familiar with the matter.

    Mr. Trump’s relationship with Mr. Pecker, the chairman of American Media, is well-documented. In the 1990s, when Mr. Pecker was president and chief executive of Hachette Filipacchi Magazines, the publisher put out “Trump Style,” a custom quarterly magazine distributed to guests at Trump properties.

    As the presidential race ramped up last year, the Enquirer published a series of columns by Mr. Trump. One began, “I am the only one who can make America great again!” Another was headlined, “Donald Trump: The Man Behind the Legend!”

  33. 33.

    lamh36

    Stories like this tend to be a bit of a lop sided conversation here and on many liberal blogs without “large” minority readership…I think sure to the average white person on left or right, sure it’s a nothing burger story in the grand scheme of it all…

    But speak of this same news in a mixed group of immigrants are naturalized voting family members of this mixed gropu, who are in the same boat as Melania was or who used to be in the same boat…and yet have been and are being demonized by Trump et al…and then you see it could be even MORE of a motivator to get out and get folks to polls to vote against Trump

    Melania has the “complexion for protection” that millions of immigrants don’t…

  34. 34.

    Adam L Silverman

    @lamh36: It was covered on MSNBC tonight. The question will be if the story has legs and how long they are. Same with the WSJ story about the affair.

  35. 35.

    PeakVT

    The AP reporting facts is just like the head of the FBI formally transmitting innuendo to members of Congress. /SCLM

  36. 36.

    p.a.

    Anyone still degenerate enough to still back tRump won’t even be swayed by a “dead girl or live boy” type video or an ‘Aristocrats’ demo by the entire tRump clan. Maybe a family group masturbation on a crucifix might get him below 45%.

  37. 37.

    lamh36

    @Adam L Silverman: yeah…I saw it on there too. CNN didn’t do “breakin coverage” at all at the time, even though they had Don Lemon LIVE…on

    MSM legs won’t be there I think, but Spanish-language media…this will likely have legs there.

  39. 39.

    patroclus

    I don’t really blame Melania for working without a visa, but I do blame Trump for threatening to deport all immigrants and indiscriminately ban immigrants from certain countries or who have certain religious beliefs on his own whim. It’s the hypocrisy of his whole campaign that this little nugget highlights.

    But I’m still with Major4 on this election – I think Clinton will win, I think we’ll take the Senate. But not the House and we won’t have a landslide any more and we won’t carry Texas like I thought before the Comey intervention. And sadly, I think Trump is going to better than Romney and McCain did, which I think will embolden the alt-right, not diminish it. And, without the House, the chances for all the liberal legislation that we want are slim. We really need to GOTV.

  40. 40.

    WaterGirl

    @lamh36: Boy do I hope you’re right. We need everybody to vote this time.

    I do not understand anyone who is voting for Trump so I absolutely cannot predict what, if anything, might stick.

  41. 41.

    WarMunchkin

    It’s a doesn’t matter story, like David Vitter can bang prostitutes but still be considered the family values candidate. This kind of story only matters when it’s a Democrat.

  42. 42.

    lamh36

    @Adam L Silverman: aint’ that something…Enquirer was shouting from the rooftops about John Edwards affair yet ..here ya have them squashing Trump stories…

    Just going to prove what used to be always known…National Enquirer ain’t shit…

  46. 46.

    Helen

    So is this the big mutha-fuking OH MY GOD scoop both Liz Mair and Rick Wilson had?

    FAIL.

    I knew they were full of shit.

  47. 47.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Lizzy L:

    Nobody will care.

    ANYBODY who’s immigrated and gone through the naturalization process will care. Now the majority may already be HRC voters, but it’ll matter.

  48. 48.

    Raven Onthill

    I feel sick. Trump’s response is going to be horrible. USCIS routinely deports people who do this; how can it be ignored? And if it is ignored, what does this say about the integrity of the enforcement of immigration law? There’s the whole “one law for him, another for the rest of us aspect” of this revelation.

  51. 51.

    guachi

    I think a way to spin this is for Democrats to say that Hillary’s plan for immigrants would even help illegal immigrants like Melania come out of the shadows and ensure they get or don’t lose their citizenship.

  52. 52.

    randy khan

    I must admit I’ve been assuming something like this happened for quite a long time. The Trump campaign response to early questions was too aggressive for me to think she dotted all of the i’s and crossed all of the t’s.

    I have no idea what effect it will have on the election, but it’s hard to see it helping Trump.

  53. 53.

    Lizzy L

    @lamh36: Fair point. I was thinking of it the other way, that none of Trump’s supporters will be dissuaded by this story. (At this point, I don’t think Trump’s supporters are dissuadable, by any story. ) Still, most of the immigrants (first and second generation) that I know personally have long since made up their minds to vote for Hillary. I do have one immigrant acquaintance (that I know of; there may be others) who’s voting for Trump. He’s from India. He has CDS. We don’t discuss it.

  54. 54.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    Jeff Gauvin
    ‏@JeffersonObama

    #POLLS 11/4 8PM
    ■REU C+5
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    ■MC C+5
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    ■CBS C+3
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  55. 55.

    hovercraft

    @redshirt:
    Chuck Todd agrees with you, none of this is something unusual, apparently Rudy’s ties to the FBI and their leaking stuff is already baked in, the National Enquirer story about a consensual affair with a Playmate, baked in, Also too the fact that Melania was worked without papers, baked in. Isn’t it funny how the e-mail story we’ve been hearing for going on two years wasn’t baked in but all this is. I guess I missed where Donald Trump’s wife herself was an “illegal”, and the media obsessed over it for several days. Now he says the only thing that will “break through” at this point is if either one of them says something bad themselves. Doesn’t Trump say crazy shit everyday that the media tells us is not a big deal because he says crazy shit daily. I’m obviously way too dumb to keep track of these ever changing norms and mores. Sigh.

  58. 58.

    lamh36

    @joshtpm 6m6 minutes ago
    1: The AP took the time Melania’s lawyer claimed she got a work visa and proved she had been working … http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/might-be-more-to-the-melania-story … via @TPM

    2: illegally before that date. But like with the tax returns, Melania’s lawyer refused to provide any documents. So we actually have …

    3: no proof other than her claim that that’s when she got a work visa. Plenty of reason to think she was working in the country illegally…

    4: for a longer period.

  61. 61.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Raven Onthill:

    USCIS routinely deports people who do this

    After they have citizenship? Citizenship isn’t revoked for minor infractions like this. For high and low.

    ETA: Citizenship may be denied for things like this, but it is unlikely to be revoked.

  63. 63.

    redshirt

    @hovercraft: It is incredible. A story that isn’t even about Clinton becomes a huge scandal, and yet actual scandal after scandal after scandal by Trump is just brushed away.

    We’ve got a serious media problem in this country and if we survive this election, we need to address it, because they are getting worse.

  67. 67.

    lamh36

    @RalstonReports 48s48 seconds ago
    Hispanics waiting on line for hours to vote against Donald Trump in the state that could block him from the presidency is just too much.

    @HillaryforNV 12m12 minutes ago
    HOURS EXTENDED: You can vote early at Cardenas on 2400 East Bonanza Rd in Las Vegas until 10pm!

  68. 68.

    PPCLI

    @Helen: In one of her tweets Mair was making remarks about finding ways to break Non-Disclosure Agreements, so I would guess that at least one of the things she had in mind was the stuff in the WSJ thing on Trump’s affairs with a playboy model and a hardcore porn star.
    The WSJ article doesn’t have the sorts of juicy stuff Mair may have expected, since they couldn’t get anything out of either of the women.

  70. 70.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @guachi:

    HRCs lead has been really steady. There’s a fun tweet I can’t post because it’s a picture of a graph of the two trend lines over several months that look basically like a railroad track with the blue line on top, with the tweet that says “this has been a roller coaster of an election!”

  72. 72.

    Latino J

    Lol – between the Christie corruption verdicts, the voter suppression restraining order, Melania’s illegal status, Rudy G busting himself colluding with FBI agents for political gain, and Trump’s affair, today is just peak hypocrisy. It really is like the bottom just fell out of the BS.

    I can’t begin to fathom what the press would be like if Hillary had a day like this. Imagine – “Hillary has affair with Playgirl model and Univision pays to keep it quiet” – “2 Terry McCauliffe aides convicted” – “John Podesta getting inside info from FBI agents with a personal vendetta against Trump” – “Judge issues restraining order against Clinton campaign because of voter intimidation”. it would be sheer pandemonium.

  75. 75.

    Arclite

    What we need is a vid of Trump doing actual pr0n. Or maybe a vid of him actually raping someone. Can someone drop something please? The FBI is trying to throw the election, and we need a counterattack.

  79. 79.

    dmsilev

    @Arclite: Well, there are some rumors circulating that one or another of the Russian Intelligence agencies is in possession of just such a tape, but I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that even if the rumors are true, the Russians are unlikely to release it.

  80. 80.

    redshirt

    @Latino J: It’s amazing how imbalanced the coverage is. And yet: “Liberal Media”.

    It’s quite a trick the Repukes have pulled: Poison the media entirely, and then cry that their biased against you.

  82. 82.

    WaterGirl

    @Kropadope: Wow. Not so funny now. Not being snarky, does she have some sort of mental impairment? I had no idea that anyone would actually believe the world is flat.

  84. 84.

    dmsilev

    @Kropadope:

    my sister actually believes the Earth is flat.

    Have you explored this belief of hers? Does she believe in the existence of communication satellites? Is New Zealand a myth? Etc.

  86. 86.

    hovercraft

    @WaterGirl:
    I’m going to catch the rerun at 11.30.
    @PPCLI:
    This would have to be a NDL with the Enquirer, since they paid her the 150 k. Shouldn’t that count as a campaign contribution?

  87. 87.

    max`

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s the AP’s take. I have no idea what actually does and does not happen on average.

    She’s married to an American, and the Supremes say marriage is a constitutional right. Ergo, she’s an American, bad visa/green card or no. (There’s also a constitutional restriction against ostracism, using the old meaning.) They could charge probably make some kind of records/perjury something something case.

    Only way they can forcibly boot her is to nullify her marriage.

    max
    [‘I suppose if it were entered into in fraudulent circumstances…’]

  90. 90.

    jl

    Been watching the tweeter twits of Josh Marshall and Jon Ralston (local NV political pundit curmudgeon). Looks like ultra massive, historic, record breaking, Hispanic turnout for early voting around the state. Would be interesting if a big chunk of the election is being decided tonight. I guess we will know sometime next week.

  91. 91.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Latino J: Did you see my comment earlier today? If you want to write something up about how the coverage on Univision has been different and send it across to me, I’ll put it up as a guest post. I can be reached at the link for contact the front pagers at the drop down box at the top right.

  92. 92.

    lamh36

    Now more than one report of increased Latino early voting numbers in both Florida and now Nevada…do we think this Melania story won’t resonate with these folks? Also too wasn’t there a number of stories about Hispanic voters who were eligible but didn’t vote or didn’t register to vote? I thought I had read somewhere that there has been some increase in new Hispanic voter registration in some key states.

    Do we think this story on Hispanic language news and media will be a bigger deal?

    @josemacias8
    This is insane line at Cardenas Market on the last night of Early Voting. #Election2016 #votemosjuntos

  94. 94.

    schrodinger's cat

    This comment thread makes it clear, why Trump can bash immigrants and get away with it. They count as total nonentities even in the Balloon Juice comment thread.
    Sample comment:

    No one will care

  98. 98.

    Matt McIrvin

    @WaterGirl: There are a dismaying number of sincere flat-earthers online. It’s a Thing. I think it’s gotten more popular in the past few years.

    As far as I can tell, the really energetic flat-earthers seem to be the kind of people who basically believe every conspiracy theory. If you read their social-media chatter it generally doesn’t take very long for The Jews Who Control Everything to make an appearance, though I don’t suppose all of them are into that.

  99. 99.

    Lizzy L

    @redshirt: No argument. But in any particular state — let’s say, NC –a higher vote total won’t change the EV for Hillary, but could make a vital difference in a Senate race. Besides, we want higher vote totals in the popular vote wherever we can get them, because of words like “landslide” and “mandate” which of course the press will refuse to use because Democrats don’t get a mandate and they don’t win by landslides.

  100. 100.

    jl

    @lamh36: Missed your comment. Polling places extend hours to 10 PM, Ralston says hundreds to thousands in line earlier in evening and they were still growing.

    Edit: Ralston in one tweet snarked that if the NV GOP had a panic button, they better push it now.

  101. 101.

    fuckwit

    Who gives a shit? This is no more of a nothingburger than Hilary’s husband getting a blowjob from some chick that worked from him, and at around the same time too.

    There is probably so much more out there on Troll than this. Is this really the best our so-called liberal media can come up with?

    Fuck.

  102. 102.

    Peale

    @Raven Onthill: I’d just mention it then drop it. She’s just the spouse. And it will come off as crass to hear a bunch of white people mocking “deport the bitch, Nyah Nyah Nyah”

  104. 104.

    mike in dc

    @redshirt:

    But overall popular vote margin of victory can be fairly predictive of down ballot performance. If she were to win by 8+, the House is in play. Below that, we gain seats, but probably not enough of them.

  106. 106.

    jl

    @lamh36: Ralson has been looking at early voting records and voting day turnout in NV last couple of elections. He says that if Dems rack up a 50K advantage in early voting, GOP will be in real, probably fatal, trouble. IIRC Ralston’s tweets correctly, that mark was met around 8PM and looks like thousands more Hispanic early votes coming in through the evening.
    But you can check his twit stream. He has a Ralston Reports website where you can look at more of his analysis.

    Edit: Anyway, check out Jon Ralston; He has been monitoring early voting and announcing various mileposts in early voting stats. Earlier in week he said he doubted that the Dems would break the record, now he seems to be saying that they will shatter it.

  107. 107.

    Raven Onthill

    @Peale: I don’t expect an official response from the Clinton campaign, though she will probably be pressed for one, but I’m worried about the impact on voting. Clinton cannot say Melania deserves amnesty without losing votes. Clinton also cannot say “Deport Melania” without looking heartless. (And don’t underestimate the impact of Melania’s looks.) So what ought Clinton say? This is such a mess of an election that this revelation might even work to Trump’s advantage.

  112. 112.

    lamh36

    ‏@RalstonReports 5m5 minutes ago
    “We will not turn people away,” Election Dept spox tells me, saying voting places will stay open as long as it takes.
    cc: Adelson News

  114. 114.

    WaterGirl

    @schrodinger’s cat: Perhaps people were thinking of the pro-Trump crowd when they said that? Thinking that this would be unlikely to sway anyone who is still pro-Trump. It’s the hypocrisy that gets me, but Trump supporters don’t seem to be bothered by it.

    Maybe give some folks here the benefit of the doubt?

    But the other part of the equation is who might have been discouraged about the FBI stuff, and maybe would decide not to vote, but now will be motivated by this.

  115. 115.

    Anya

    Bill Maher was losing his shit with three Canadians (Martin Short, Jennifer Granholm & David Frum). Maher bought the stupid idea that liberals created Trump bacause they were mean to republicans. Sometimes, Bill Maher is a simpleton.

  116. 116.

    Helen

    @PPCLI: Mair said yesterday that the NDA thing is dead because the signers would not talk. But there is apparently a WAY bigger thing out there.

    No there’s not. And if there is, it’s too late.

    This shit is Wilson and Mair’s “Whitey tape”

  117. 117.

    lamh36

    @samsteinhp 1m1 minute ago
    Sam Stein Retweeted Steve Schale
    more friday night data points about a huge wave of hispanic voters coming (this time in Florida)

    @steveschale
    On Thurs alone, 82.5% of Hispanic early voters were considered low propensity voters.

    That’s literally nuts.

  118. 118.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Helen: @PPCLI: Based on Mair’s tweets tonight, they (the PAC she was with) fed this – McDougal and the Stormy Daniels’ affairs – to ABC over the summer. According to the WSJ reporting ABC negotiated with their attorney (same attorney for both), but ultimately he negotiated an agreement with the parent company of The National Enquirer for McDougal and just stopped negotiating for Daniels.

  119. 119.

    WaterGirl

    @hovercraft: I haven’t watched his show in years. It’s hard for me to imagine the president being on it. Will watch anyway, of course. thanks.

  120. 120.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @max`: Nope. You can be stripped of your citizenship for lying on your application, married to an American or not.

    ETA: Being married to a US citizen do not grant you US citizenship.

  121. 121.

    lamh36

    @RalstonReports 33m33 minutes ago
    50,000 threshold officially crossed at 8 PM in Clark County.

    50,106 and counting.

    What a spectacle.

    @owillis 1m1 minute ago
    it would be so delicious post-gop autopsy, post-nominating an anti-immigration nominee, if the gop is drowned thanks to latino votes

  124. 124.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Anya: I don’t know about Short or Frum, but Granholm is an American citizen. Calling her Canadian diminishes her status as a citizen. Please don’t do it.

  125. 125.

    Kropadope

    @schrodinger’s cat: I’m still trying to figure out how the moon and sun haven’t fallen down to it and why they don’t crash into each other, since they’re obviously the same size and distance from the Earth.

  127. 127.

    patroclus

    The national polls swinging back to Clinton and today’s scandal-ridden day for the lying sociopathic proto-Fascist, I think, should give us comfort that Trump’s momentum (which I think was more a matter of Republicans coming home to him) has been stopped. I was beginning to think that it would be a slightly lesser of a W for Hillary than the Obama-Romney race, but now I’m thinking it’s gonna be more like a Obama-McCain level victory. If this trend continues, maybe we can still hope for a bigger win by Tuesday; especially if the Latinos turn out like they’re apparently doing in Nevada and Florida.

    On the same day, a consensual affair of Trump’s is publicized, Chris Christie’s aides are found guilty, the National Enquirer-suppression story is publicized, Melania is revealed to be an illegal immigrant and Guliani’s insider relationship with the FBI is exposed. Each one of these stories, if they had happened to Hillary, would be HUGE on all the media, but instead they are being pooh-poohed. Nonetheless, their collective impact might blunt Trump’s momentum. Poblano might have a sad, but this is all good news.

  129. 129.

    Kropadope

    @WaterGirl:

    Wow. Not so funny now. Not being snarky, does she have some sort of mental impairment?

    She’s married if that counts. She’s also the only one of us with a bachelor’s degree, but it’s in business so I’m pretty sure the main thing they taught her is employees=office supplies.

  133. 133.

    redshirt

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    This comment thread makes it clear, why Trump can bash immigrants and get away with it. They count as total nonentities even in the Balloon Juice comment thread.
    Sample comment:

    Quality misinterpretation of dozens of people’s comments. Bravo!

  134. 134.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Raven Onthill: Why does she need to say fuck all? Your comments indicate that you seem to think that Trump’s wife’s immigration issues hurt HRC. How do you get there?

  137. 137.

    Kropadope

    @dmsilev:

    Have you explored this belief of hers? Does she believe in the existence of communication satellites? Is New Zealand a myth? Etc.

    According to this belief, the north pole is actually at the middle of everything and we are surrounded by Antarctica which ends in a giant impassable ice wall. Here are some maps. No, she doesn’t believe there are satellites, rather we have solar powered drones that can run 24 hours per day.

  138. 138.

    Raven Onthill

    @redshirt: Clinton is going to be asked. She has to say something. I hope she says something that does not cost her support.

    it feels like another money wrench has been thrown into the machinery, and who knows what the result will be?

  139. 139.

    PPCLI

    @guachi: And also to pivot immediately to make it a point about Trump and his campaign: Trump and his people said that everything in her immigration history was legal, but they didn’t release the documents, and sure enough: they lied. Once again, you can’t believe a word Trump says….

    So when he says he doesn’t owe huge chunks of money to Russia — why should we believe him? Release the tax returns, release the financial records, and we can believe you, Donald. But just jutting out your jaw and insisting we take your word for it won’t fly.

    Also, as an immigrant who jumped through millions of hoops for any number of different work permits, spending time and money as well as grief and anxiety to get them, I will say that I personally am quite pissed off at the Trump hypocrisy on this, and hate those people even more, which I wouldn’t have thought possible.

  142. 142.

    Matt McIrvin

    @patroclus: There’s not enough time left for this to be 2008-level. At this point, that’s less likely than Trump winning (which is not likely). It’s so late, a lot of people aren’t even going to mentally process scandals that drop today.

    A win comparable to 2012 is conceivable, if not likely. Obama almost lost Florida in 2012, and if he had, he’d have been down at 303 electoral votes; at this point I’d say Hillary beating that is better than even odds, though she’d have a different map.

  144. 144.

    lamh36

    @Adam L Silverman: Ya know, I actually meant to send ya one today but I completely got distracted.

    Tomorrow’s my birthday still not sure what I’ll be doing but I promise an update Sunday!

  145. 145.

    redshirt

    @Raven Onthill: Sure, she’ll be asked. She’s a great pol. She’ll give some non-answer and move on. I’m not sure why this concerns you so. I don’t see how this issue will move the needle regardless of what Clinton does or does not say.

    Wouldn’t Trump be more at risk from this? And yet you’re concerned about how Hillary will deal with it? Don’t get it.

  149. 149.

    khead

    Clinton appears to be leading among labor union households in both states, the poll found. She has a double-digit lead with women in both, while Trump has a more modest lead with men. Among whites, Trump has a 7-point lead over Clinton in Ohio and a 3-point lead over Clinton in Pennsylvania.

    Polling is from mid October, but Romney won the white vote in those states by 15.

  150. 150.

    JMG

    Those who’re worried and frightened, well, me too. But I found that donating a little money and working a phone bank from home (the campaign makes it beyond easy to do, even for a techophobe like myself) is quite therapeutic. At night, when there’s nothing left to do, a small snifter of Scotch helps.

  153. 153.

    PPCLI

    @Raven Onthill: The perfect thing to say is: “Donald Trump is the candidate. Not his spouse. His heartless and inflammatory immigration rhetoric is the issue, not anything she might have done in the past.”

    It highlights Donald’s hypocrisy, takes the diplomatic tone on Melania, and also, without explicitly saying it or mentioning Bill, gives an “Ahem” to all the people attacking Big Dog to get at her.

  154. 154.

    Kropadope

    @WaterGirl: Oh, it is, and I’m actually pretty glad for it because she’s done a pretty good job keeping my Republican dad off my back since he really wants to argue with her about the shape of the Earth. She’s also seriously against vaccines.

  157. 157.

    lamh36

    A guy on Chris Hayes show, said the majority of public pollsters, don’t have the funds to poll in Spanish…which means they could miss at least 1-2 points in polls and that could be a problem for GOP!

    Hispanics are leaning HRC

    @NateSilver538 Nate Silver Retweeted Adrian Gray
    One of many reasons why there’s a lot of uncertainty in polls this year. They don’t have a good grasp on the Hispanic vote.

    @adrian_gray
    Clinton leads among national Hispanic voters in last week: +21, +48, +29, +38, +16, +27, +30, +55, +12, +38, +24, +38, +60, +39

  160. 160.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Omnes Omnibus: Here’s how you do it:
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/09/13/louisiana_prostitution_allegations_upend_senate_race.html

    The bad news for Boustany, aside from how he was already trailing Kennedy, is that a new book comes out Tuesday alleging that he was a client of prostitutes who were later murdered. In Murder in the Bayou, “investigative journalist Ethan Brown cites three anonymous sources claiming Republican Rep. Charles Boustany was a ‘client’ of some of the murdered sex workers known as the ‘Jeff Davis 8,’ ” BuzzFeed reported last week. “The book also reveals that the motel where some of the victims did their sex work was run by Martin Guillory, a field representative for Boustany who goes by the nickname ‘Big G.’ ” The Boustany campaign categorically denied the allegations, saying “these allegations are completely false and don’t even deserve a response” in its official response.

    The Associated Press reported that Boustany’s wife, Bridget, sent an email to supporters Monday calling the allegations “lies” and describing her husband as “a good man, a loving husband, and an incredible father to our two children.” She also suggested that “Charles’ opponents have resorted to lies about him.”

    Here’s where things get sassy. The Kennedy campaign responded by issuing an all-timer in the political art of weaponizing denial.

    Earlier today, the Boustany campaign sent out an email alleging that my campaign and other candidates’ campaigns for U.S. Senate played a role in the shocking story alleging illegal behavior from Congressman Boustany and his staff. I want to be very clear that my campaign played absolutely no role in creating this story alleging Congressman Boustany’s sexual relationships with prostitutes that were later murdered, his staff’s alleged involvement in running the bar and hotel where this illicit behavior took place or publishing the book Murder in the Bayou written by Ethan Brown and published by Simon and Schuster.

    “My wife, Becky, and I are keeping the Congressman, Mrs. Boustany and their children in our prayers as they deal with this as a family,” this cold-ass statement concluded.

  161. 161.

    Steeplejack

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Hey, Adam, just report stuff. Don’t report it out. Or tweet it out. Just report it or tweet it.

  163. 163.

    randy khan

    @Raven Onthill:

    Clinton cannot say Melania deserves amnesty without losing votes. Clinton also cannot say “Deport Melania” without looking heartless. (And don’t underestimate the impact of Melania’s looks.) So what ought Clinton say?

    She should say nothing. But her spokesperson should suggest that it might be interesting to ask Donald Trump if his statement about deporting anyone who came here illegally applies to his wife.

  164. 164.

    Adam L Silverman

    @lamh36: That’s likely a huge issue and, perhaps, an under estimate of the under sampling. Dan Smith, a former colleague from UF (when I was a post-doc he was an assistant professor), tweeted earlier about the size of the Hispanic turnout in early voting in Florida.

  166. 166.

    lamh36

    @Adam L Silverman: Thank you much….

    thinking back on my life at 27 (finished my 2nd BS degree, about to start a new career path) and I gotta say…40…I’m doing pretty well…my 27 year old self might just be a little impressed…lol

  168. 168.

    PPCLI

    @lamh36: As someone pointed out on a thread a few days ago, the election coverage on Univision is far different from what we are getting on English-Language TV. For example, Trump’s immigration rhetoric and “Build a Wall — and Mexico will pay for it” doesn’t get exclusively “how will this affect the horserace” treatment there.

    The mere fact that there is no Spanish-language Fox News must make a huge difference

  170. 170.

    Peale

    I hope the latinos turn out like that in a Arizona. If the dems don’t win the state, I hope they get a chance to get rid of sherif joe.

  171. 171.

    WaterGirl

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, I know. Just trying to be constructive in case he’s just really nervous. When I get nervous about the election, I try to walk away and deal with it myself rather than possibly spread the fear.

  174. 174.

    Raven Onthill

    @WaterGirl: Thanks. It is indeed a long way to Tuesday. Wow, do I not want more surprise revelations.

    I like the suggestions that have been made here, and I hope they work out, but I fear the unexpected.

    BTW, the commentary on Twitter, and even in TPM’s comments, is horrible. She does not deserve the abuse that is already being heaped on her.

  177. 177.

    lamh36

    Alright…I’m outtie 5-thousie…

    Gonna finish watching Tropic Thunder (how fuq’n good was Robert Downey Jr in that…lol) then off to bed.

    Plan to sleep in late and get some rest…then head out and decide how I want to spend my birthday…

    Although, I’m low maintenance enough that a long day in bed with maybe some mint chocolate chip ice cream is a DAMN great way to spend my day…

    Good night BJ…See ya on the flipside!

  179. 179.

    lamh36

    @Adam L Silverman: yeah…Is saw this –>

    @electionsmith
    Hispanic EIP voting in Florida is off the charts…429k have voted in person, up 152% at this time in 2012

    #TrumpEffect

  181. 181.

    Ruckus

    @Peale:
    It’s a lean. An angle is an angle. 1 deg, 60 deg, both still angles. Granted one of those is a lot bigger but still…. A lean is a lean. And it’s in a great direction.

  187. 187.

    redshirt

    @Full Metal Wingnut: True. I just don’t think there’s a lot of movement left. If you were voting Trump before this was released, you’re probably still voting Trump. It would take a much bigger event to get his supporters to not vote. The Hollywood Access thing was much closer, because of the audio/video. Sad to say, but without audio/video, nothing can touch Republicans much.

  188. 188.

    Raven Onthill

    @WaterGirl: Already donated. My wife donated to Clinton and I donated to the Senate campaigns of Margaret Hassan in New Hampshire, Catherine Marie Cortez Masto in Nevada, Kathleen McGinty in Pennsylvania, Deborah Ross in North Carolina, Jason Kander in Missouri, and Evan Bayh in Indiana.

    Trust me, you don’t want me making calls for candidates. I think having me croaking on the phone might actually lose votes.

  190. 190.

    GrandJury

    @guachi: Final 2012 national vote was Obama +3.9.

    So I’ll take +6 national polling assuming it’s apples to apples. I expect the state EV polling to catch up to that over the weekend.

    Where are all the trolls today talking about polling? Surely there must be some outlier for them to desperately grasp on to.

  191. 191.

    RaflW

    Apparently things are going nuts (in a good way) in Nevada this evening. Massive early voting lines on the last day. Just saw a stat that of yesterday’s early voters in NV, 82.5% of Hispanics casting votes were ‘low propensity’ voters, unlikely to have made it thru any LV polling screen.

    Also that the bad CNN poll of NV the other day had n/a Hispanics in the crosstabs, but actually will be 20% of the final vote tally.

    NV will be quite the state to watch on Tuesday night, and for years to come. Trump may have changed the desert west for a generation.

  197. 197.

    redshirt

    @lamh36: OMG so funny! I didn’t even realize it was Tom Cruise until like half way in.

    “Is the Key Grip here? Yeah? I want you to punch him in the FUCKING FACE!”

  199. 199.

    WarMunchkin

    @WaterGirl:

    Has anybody watched the President on Bill Maher tonight?

    I just took the time to watch the entire thing on YouTube. It’s hands down one of the best interviews of President Obama I’ve ever seen. Bill Maher is a little bit flippant, as he always is – and I get that many people will find that brash, annoying or disrespectful of the president – but by the very nature of doing that, he gets to ask questions that most people don’t get to ask Obama and certainly not as starkly. In doing so, PBO gave some of the most candid and thoughtful responses to some of the major issues that have animated liberals before this election, and I appreciated it tremendously. And at the end, Maher genuinely thanks PBO for the job he’s done in office. I really, really liked that interview.

  205. 205.

    Peale

    I’m pissed that those lines are so long that people have to wait. But I’m so happy to see them.

  206. 206.

    Lizzy L

    @redshirt: I think this is right. The only thing left to do is GOTV. Call people (I had a great conversation with a 20-something girl in Arizona today who was on her way to vote with a bunch of her friends), donate to the Senate and House races, drive people to the polls, whatever’s left to do. It’s frustrating for Californians: the Presidential contest will probably be over before the polls close in CA, which is very bad for the down-ticket races. The earlier we can get people to vote, the better.

  207. 207.

    Raven Onthill

    @Omnes Omnibus: Excuse me? I’ve already voted for Clinton and Kaine, and a raft of Democratic candidates, including our senior Senator, who I dislike very much. Doesn’t matter this election: I’d vote for a yellow god, er, dog, if it was on the Democratic ticket.

  208. 208.

    hovercraft

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Personally if when someone calls me a Zimbabwean, I’m not bothered unless they say it in a way meant to be insulting, it is a part of who I am.

  211. 211.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kropadope: The bit about the solar-powered drones is precious.

    Online these people mostly seem to be a particularly passionate subset of the “moon landing was fake” conspiracy theorists. Only they believe everything NASA does is fake, and flood the comments on every picture post out of the NASA PR office with invective about how it’s all CGI to hide the flat earth.

    Over the years I’ve encountered a lot of cranks who insisted that Einstein was wrong or that they can make a perpetual motion machine or something, but it takes ambition to deny something that got correctly figured out in ancient Greece.

  213. 213.

    WaterGirl

    @Ruckus: Okay. I thought you might have been replying to something specific but hadn’t hit the reply button.

    Goodnight all. It’s time for PJs and the President on Bill Maher.

  215. 215.

    Ruckus

    @hovercraft:
    There was a saying when I was young, which is a long time ago, in a place not far away, “I don’t care what you call me as long as it isn’t late for dinner.”

  219. 219.

    Steeplejack

    @Adam L Silverman:

    First line of this post: “The Associated Press has just reported out that Melania Trump [. . .].”

    First line of previous post: “NBC News is reporting out that the US Government has taken steps [. . .].”

    First line of “The Maskirova Slips Part IV”: “This morning Kurt Eichenwald reported out a story in Newsweek [. . .].”

    It’s a pointless rhetorical frill that serves no purpose.

  220. 220.

    Ruckus

    @Matt McIrvin:
    I mentioned on BJ a while ago that some people still think the earth is flat and was hounded that people had figured that out a very long time ago. I think it’s good to remember that many people will think things that have no truth to them whatsoever because they are idiots. And they prove that daily.

  223. 223.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @hovercraft: @Ruckus: My ex was an immigrant. We jumped through hoops to get her qualified for citizenship. And we did so. Also too, I have an involvement with someone who is an immigrant citizen. I am aware of those issues.

  227. 227.

    Millard Filmore

    @Raven Onthill:

    Clinton is going to be asked. She has to say something. I hope she says something that does not cost her support.

    She could easily simply say its a distraction. If she feels like being snarky, “Its a hilarious distraction.”

  231. 231.

    Bupalos

    The way to run with this would be to have Hillary kind of jokingly mention it and have the crowd chant “let her stay, let her stay.” That would get run on every outlet and strike all the exact right notes.

  233. 233.

    Craig

    Maybe it’s just me, but on this issue the profoundly clueless orange pile of ferret anal gland ooze that the GOP is running for president brings to mind the subject of one of Dave Chappelle’s funnier segments, Clayton Bigsby: Black White Supremacist… the video is in two parts and is probably NSFW (if the audio and video are okay at your job, you either have the best or worst co-workers I can imagine)

    http://www.cc.com/video-clips/7nnosh/chappelle-s-show–frontline—-clayton-bigsby-pt–1—uncensored

  234. 234.

    Porlock Junior

    @lamh36:
    The people in Nevada who are lined up to vote are probably chanting, I don’t think we’re in Ohio any more”

  235. 235.

    jenn

    Just a few more comments about voting in Nevada:

    Jon Ralston ‏@RalstonReports 2h2 hours ago

    50,000 threshold officially crossed at 8 PM in Clark County.

    50,106 and counting.

    What a spectacle.

    and

    Jon Ralston ‏@RalstonReports 2h2 hours ago

    “We will not turn people away,” Election Dept spox tells me, saying voting places will stay open as long as it takes.

    After all of the stories about voter suppression elsewhere in the nation, this is a fantastic demonstration of democracy.

    Plus, Republican-leaning Washoe Co results:

    Jon Ralston ‏@RalstonReports 1h1 hour ago

    Uh, oh: Dems won Washoe tonight for first time in four days, end up with 1,000-vote lead overall:

    Dem – 6,058
    GOP – 5,820
    TOTAL – 16,373

  236. 236.

    Mike in dc

    So, Trump cheated on his pregnant wife and then his buddies at the National Enquired bought the story and buried it. That seems like something that most women might have a visceral reaction to.

  237. 237.

    Robert Sneddon

    @max`: Being married to an American does not give a non-American spouse any rights of residence in the United States. A British friend married an American but he had to wait five or six years before he could get a green card. She on the other hand had no problems living and working legally in the UK with him until the green card was issued.

  238. 238.

    Robert Sneddon

    @WaterGirl: Lots of people implicitly believe an Invisible Sky Fairy is watching them every moment of the day and judging them on what they do and they further believe in an afterlife where the Invisible Sky Fairy will reward or punish them. There’s lots more empirical evidence to justify believing the world is flat than there is to justify believing in the Invisible Sky Fairy.

  239. 239.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Ruckus: Well, the legend was that everyone thought the Earth was flat before Columbus, and that’s not true (it seems to have been made up by Washington Irving, of all people).

    But I think it might actually be easier for people in the modern world to believe in a flat Earth than in the ancient world. We have less direct physical engagement with the natural world and have most of our ideas about it mediated through products of civilization. I mean, at first glance it seems intuitively obvious that the Earth is a flat plane, but if you live by the seashore and you spend a lot of time looking at people in boats (and a lot of Greeks did), surely you’re going to notice sooner or later that when they get far away they look like they’re disappearing over a curve, almost like you’re on the top of a gigantic hill of water. And then at night you see that spectacular apparent dome of stars that is really more like a huge sphere rolling around the Earth every 24 hours or so, and if you’re the kind of person inclined to think a lot about nature, (while this is not a particularly scientific induction) the idea probably comes to mind that you’re on a ball inside a bigger ball.

    But if you’re interacting with the world mostly through TV and the Internet, you don’t really get that.

    The flat Earthers aren’t wrong to challenge authority–they’re just replacing those ideas with completely stupid ones they got from an even less trustworthy authority.

  242. 242.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Anya: That’s a worthwhile point. Humorously alluded to on twitter:

    joey cee ‏@joeycee317 9h9 hours ago

    “They’re bringing drugs, they’re rapists, they’re Modeling” #badhombre

  243. 243.

    Brachiator

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The flat Earthers aren’t wrong to challenge authority–they’re just replacing those ideas with completely stupid ones they got from an even less trustworthy authority.

    No. Challenging authority “just because” is stupid, and what adolescents do. The flat earth people believe something stupid because it is simple and seems to confirm what they see with their own eyes. But they lack imagination. And they are unable to test or to evaluate claims about the world.

    Climate change deniers are similar to these people.

  244. 244.

    different-church-lady

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    “I have no comment on the recent, and so far unproven, allegations against Mrs. Trump.” “You’ll have to ask Donald about that.”

  248. 248.

    SenyorDave

    It would be irresponsible not to speculate as to whether Melania Trump is just a very highly compensated drug mule.

  250. 250.

    J R in WV

    @Kropadope:

    “Earth is flat” – therefore NOT planning a Disney cruise, lest she fall off the edge!

    There are so many ways to see for yourself that the Blue Marble is round, but I always knew there was a stubborn group of nay-sayers. And the Moon-landings were all shot in the Nevada desert at Area 51~!!

    My best friend’s sister depends upon transfer payments – disabled, believes she is saved by the Republican party, so very similar to your situation.

  251. 251.

    Jilli Brown

    @Major Major Major Major: I’m sure this won’t change a thing in the election, but maybe it’ll have some kind of an after effect. Maybe, just maybe, some of the gullible trumplodytes will wise up. Maybe he’s finally pricked their sense of self respect and they’ll realize that allowing yourself to so easily be played for a fool is no way to go through life. I know…never gonna happen.

  252. 252.

    Raven Onthill

    Thinking it over, my reaction is compounded of shock and disgust. Attacking a candidates spouse again? Really? This is unlikely to make any difference to the election result, but it will make picking up the pieces afterwards worse.

    Whose idea was this, again?

    Redshirt, thanks.

  253. 253.

    Ramalama

    I know a gay dude from the Middle East who overstayed his visa (hey had one) and was found out and put into prison for a year before realizing he was in a no-win situation. So he said, Fine I give up. They, the US immigration services, put him on a plane back to said country.

    This was before gay marriage became a federal thing. So his partner of 3 years, my friend, had no legal recourse to keep Middle Eastern dude in country. Their partnership was thus ended because my friend would not survive as a gay man in the Middle East, period, aside from not knowing Arabic, and not wanting a death sentence hanging over his head 24×7, and being a little swishy that years of ‘therapy’ couldn’t erase.

    Good for you, Melania and feck you.

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