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You are here: Home / Climate Change / Do Not Be Distracted By What The Shitgibbon Says. Pay Attention To What His People Do

Do Not Be Distracted By What The Shitgibbon Says. Pay Attention To What His People Do

by Tom Levenson|  November 28, 20164:11 pm| 128 Comments

This post is in: Climate Change, Free Markets Solve Everything, Media, Science & Technology, Blatant Liars and the Lies They Tell, Fucked-up-edness, Our Failed Media Experiment, Our Failed Political Establishment, Their Motto: Apocalypse Now

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One of the signal failures of the media throughout the Trump dumpster fire of a campaign was to focus on his words — parsing, shifts in terminology, trying to distinguish between lies and hyperbole, or simply providing theater criticism on his performances, connections to audience and so on.  All the while, the critical information: what the combination of his ample history, the (few) clear positions he staked, and the people he hired revealed about what Trump would actually do as President.

That basic error is still with us, nicely diagnosed in this post by Robinson Meyer over at The Atlantic:

It works like this: Donald Trump, the president-elect himself, says something that sounds like he might be moderating on the issue. Then, his staff takes a radical action in the other direction.

Last week, Trump told the staff of The New York Times that he was keeping an open mind about the existence of climate change.

This was, as Meyer notes, treated as a major shift, given Trump’s earlier claim that global warming was a Chinese hoax.  As a result, many slow learners touted this story (Meyer self-indicts here.) But, of course, Trump’s almost certainly intentionally vague statement —

“I think there is some connectivity” between human activity and the warming climate, Trump said. “There is some, something. It depends on how much.”…

both grants him almost unlimited freedom of maneuver and was almost immediately belied by what his transition team is actually doing:

A day after Trump talked to the Times, The Guardian reported that the Trump administration plans could cut all of NASA’s Earth science research….

…which, as many have already noted, is vital for ongoing climate monitoring and ongoing attempts to study the implications of human – driven global warming with the resolution needed to inform action.

hieronymus_bosch_versuchung_des_hl-_antonius

Then there’s this:

Politico reports that the Heritage Foundation senior research fellow, Steven Groves, has been added to Trump’s State Department transition team. Just last week, Groves called for the United States to leave the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, the overarching treaty that governs how the world organizes itself to address global warming. Groves also said the U.S. should move to “dismantle” domestic climate regulations.

Thus, a picture of a Trump administration policy on climate change: destroy the research infrastructure needed to study climate, and wreck both national and international prospects for action to address what a true existential crisis.

The moral, to use Meyer’s phrase, is that Trump is a master of the two-step, baffling the unwary (aka, seemingly, the entire New York Times staff) while proceeding behind that verbal smokescreen towards the worst possible choices.  We need a much more vigilant press, and a brave one.

Image: Hieronymous Bosch, The Temptation of Saint Anthony (left panel detail), 1495-1515.  Not an exact match to the post, but I’m kinda just looking for apocalyptic images these days, and this certainly works for that.

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Reader Interactions

128Comments

  1. 1.

    tobie

    November 28, 2016 at 4:18 pm

    It’s hard to believe that Meyer would need to point out the two-faced nature of his rhetoric after everything we’ve seen, but evidently she does. My father, a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat, cited Trump’s statement that there is “some connectivity” between human behavior and climate change as evidence that he is now moderating his tone. I was gobsmacked that he would fall for this ploy. The truth is that a lot of Americans (and especially Democrats) want to believe that the President is honorable and well-intentioned since he is after all President. The alternative is just so horrifying.

  2. 2.

    Это курам на смех

    November 28, 2016 at 4:23 pm

    “A more vigilant press.” Thanks, I needed a good laugh today.

  3. 3.

    Poopyman

    November 28, 2016 at 4:25 pm

    We need a much more vigilant press, and a brave one.

    And we all want ponies for Christmas too. Realistically, we need a Plan B, because the press is doing what their corporate overlords want them to do.

  4. 4.

    p.a.

    November 28, 2016 at 4:27 pm

    Isn’t the Pentagon fully invested in Climate Change? Will they dump all the necessary planning/contingencies without a peep? I know, civilian control yadda yadda, but if the top brass believes in the evide3nce, they are forceful political players, sotto voce. Could the EPA etc. use the Pentagon as an ally in the political fights to counteract the wingnuts?

  5. 5.

    Mike in NC

    November 28, 2016 at 4:28 pm

    Santa Trump will give us all a lump of coal in our stockings for Xmas. (Wasn’t that a campaign promise?)

  6. 6.

    The Truffle

    November 28, 2016 at 4:29 pm

    @Poopyman: What’s your opinion of WaPo? I find they’ve done good work so far.

  7. 7.

    Tom Levenson

    November 28, 2016 at 4:33 pm

    @p.a.: Yes, but the direction an agency takes, even one as huge and with as strong an entrenched career bureaucracy as DoD, is still very strongly shaped by the political appointees. DoD can probably maintain a strong defensive perimeter around their own work, but not necessarily an invulnerable one. And I don’t think they can do much for EPA, even if key career players were inclined to do so.

    But I’d defer to Adam on such inside the rings speculation. I’m just a bathrobe blogger bloviating in my basement. (Actually the second floor, but who’s counting.)

  8. 8.

    WereBear

    November 28, 2016 at 4:33 pm

    The good people in denial are also part of our problem.

  9. 9.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 28, 2016 at 4:34 pm

    @The Truffle: I have liked their reporting compared to NYT, a low bar but still.

  10. 10.

    Это курам на смех

    November 28, 2016 at 4:34 pm

    @p.a.:The threat to defund climate change research goes well beyond the EPA. It will affect every agency charged with monitoring the health of the nation’s public lands, natural resources, wildlife, ecosystems, and agriculture: NOAA, NPS, USFS, USFWS, BLM, USGS, NRCS, etc.

  11. 11.

    Poopyman

    November 28, 2016 at 4:36 pm

    @The Truffle: Despite being the local paper, I stopped subscribing back in 2005, so it’s not like I see a whole lot of that paper. I do see the occasional article somebody may link to here, and you’re right, there was some good work done during this election. We’re considering re-subscribing, but really, it’s still another side project of a billionaire in another industry, which he may decide to chuck overboard at any time.

    Besides wanting the kids to stay offa my lawn, I’d like to see a large, influential, independently owned and operated newspaper or media empire. (Yeah, I know. Murdoch & kids.)

  12. 12.

    Bobby D

    November 28, 2016 at 4:38 pm

    Looks like St Anthony was tempted by the brown acid.

  13. 13.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 28, 2016 at 4:39 pm

    I’m assuming that the worst thing on any topic that Trump says is what he means until shown otherwise.

  14. 14.

    Tom Levenson

    November 28, 2016 at 4:40 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: No. You should assume that the worst that he says is the floor for the worst that he and his admin will do. Not the limit.

  15. 15.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 28, 2016 at 4:42 pm

    @Tom Levenson: Um, there’s not much worse he can get than concentration camps, torture, cattle cars, stasi, and nuclear war–all things he’s mentioned.

  16. 16.

    Weaselone

    November 28, 2016 at 4:43 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    I’m assuming the worst thing I can conceive of on any topic is what Trump will do.

  17. 17.

    Tom Levenson

    November 28, 2016 at 4:43 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I guess. But still, in all “mundane” things…he has room to dig.

  18. 18.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 28, 2016 at 4:44 pm

    @Tom Levenson: Oh, definitely. Fair enough. (Education, for instance.)

  19. 19.

    bystander

    November 28, 2016 at 4:46 pm

    I just saw an MSNBC post on how angry Trump is at Kellyanne for dissing Rmoney publicly. Then I saw a posting of an article in the NYTimes about how “populist” Steve Bannon is in favor of restricting voting rights based on race. It’s either the shiny object distraction or coded normalization with these guys. I have no hope they will ever reform.

  20. 20.

    qwerty42

    November 28, 2016 at 4:48 pm

    I think the suspicion that Trump says whatever the last person he spoke to is closer. Trump is also being drawn into the nut-right agenda, which he may or may not agree with. It doesn’t matter. They don’t care what kind of goofy stuff he *says* or tweets.

    Oh, from WaMo:
    http://washingtonmonthly.com/2016/11/28/prioritizing-truth-over-neutrality/

  21. 21.

    geg6

    November 28, 2016 at 4:51 pm

    @Это курам на смех:

    A small glimmer of hope, perhaps? The AP’s standards VP has announced that they will only use the term “alt-right” if used in quotes or modified by “so-called” or “self-described.” In addition, it can only be used if it includes a definition that makes it clear that it is a white nationalist movement. Said they aren’t going to let these people define themselves and will report on them in ways revealing their actual beliefs and philosophy. This is a good thing.

    https://blog.ap.org/behind-the-news/writing-about-the-alt-right

  22. 22.

    Keith G

    November 28, 2016 at 4:53 pm

    The attack at OSU was a big news item this morning, but several hours earlier in the South Texas town of Palmview there was a multiple casualty shooting with one fatality at a grocery store.

  23. 23.

    Shalimar

    November 28, 2016 at 4:54 pm

    @Poopyman: Large independently owned and operated newspaper sounds like the Washington Post. Yeah, I suspect Bezos is a similar shade of narcissistic sociopath as Trump, but your pickings are slim when you try to find a moral billionaire.

  24. 24.

    NotMax

    November 28, 2016 at 4:56 pm

    Need to update the classic poster from the 60s – replacing the first word with another which begins with a T.

  25. 25.

    Mike in NC

    November 28, 2016 at 4:57 pm

    How long before Justin Trudeau declares that Canada will build a wall along their southern border, and the Americans will pay for it?

  26. 26.

    piratedan

    November 28, 2016 at 5:00 pm

    @bystander: well, I think what we’re seeing is the old shell game. I suspect Bannon is actually driving the bus. Everyone else is just happy to have caught the car. Reince got what he wanted, GOP in charge. Achievement fulfilled. Kellyanne got what she wanted, Clinton Destroyed. Bannon is looking to be the guy pulling the strings on a Fascist state and putting darkies of various hues and liberalism and its tolerance back on the shelf and white folks in charge. So that piece of work is still ongoing but we’ll see if this is true once something truly odious is trotted out for public consumption… my guess is a ban on Muslim immigration in the guise of fighting the terrorist threat will be the true indication of where we’re heading. The economic destruction of the American middle class and institution of Kansas nationwide is going tell us if Mitchy and Paulie are actually in charge.

    For us that were scared shitless of what is going to be coming for us, economic shitstorm or brownshirts… not really much of a choice is there?

  27. 27.

    Shalimar

    November 28, 2016 at 5:01 pm

    @bystander: I am not in favor of restricting voting rights by race, but if we’re going to go that way, I would say anyone with more than 75% Western European/Scandinavian blood should lose their voting rights. Their (including my) ancestors have fucked this country up enough already.

  28. 28.

    Bex

    November 28, 2016 at 5:01 pm

    Kellyanne Conway told CNN today that Trump hasn’t exactly taken prosecuting Hillary off the table, it’s just that he is concentrating on other things right now.

  29. 29.

    Betty Cracker

    November 28, 2016 at 5:04 pm

    @piratedan: Is there any real conflict between the Kansas-style economic policy favored by Ryan and McConnell and Bannon’s white nationalist social agenda? I don’t think there is.

  30. 30.

    SenyorDave

    November 28, 2016 at 5:04 pm

    Just remember that Donald Trump is a far worse person than he has shown. And he is surrounding himself with people who are as bad as he is. It is astonishing to me that he has actually managed to find people who are as evil as he is. Kellyanne Conway can sit there and lie with a straight face about anything he has said. I have no doubt that in another time, another place, she would be repeating lies about the latest atrocities committed by whoever she represents. Gingrich, Giuliani, Bannon, Sessions, I can imagine all of these people back in 1930’s pushing propaganda. Scary times. And we can’t rely on the media, the NYT couldn’t be bothered to investigate the finances of a guy running for POTUS WHO GREW UP IN THEIR OWN BACKYARD. And they still can’t!

  31. 31.

    Bobby D

    November 28, 2016 at 5:06 pm

    @p.a.: I work as an environmental engineer for a branch of the military as a civilian GS employee. Our work is focused on compliance, and I specifically do the planning/programming/budgeting for env programs for an entire regions’ bases, while also serving as a regional SME for specific environmental media areas. Most of our work is about complying with various fed, state, and local permits and regs. That won’t really be impacted, and we do big-picture programming (in a budget/finance sense, not computer programming) on a 3-5 year cycle, so unlikely to see many changes to existing projects there. Some “nice to have” projects like archaeological and historical work will fall below funding lines, and priorities of what big money “MilCon” projects get funded will likely change, but simple env compliance and restoration/cleanup/CERCLA activities will be funded.

    There are programs in some branches specifically addressing alternative fuels or climate research that could easily be killed (Navy has most of those IIRC), and we have various energy/water saving initiatives (some via Exec Orders) that could be ended.

  32. 32.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 28, 2016 at 5:07 pm

    @Betty Cracker: National socialism does have the word ‘socialism’ in it, so maybe.

  33. 33.

    Shalimar

    November 28, 2016 at 5:10 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I think the Kansas-style economy would actually be less of a total disaster with racist tax discrimination against non-whites, at least for the white people, so the policies complement each other somewhat. After they get Justice Kennedy off the court and replace him with a 5th vote for allowing anything Republicans want, anyway.

  34. 34.

    Chip Daniels

    November 28, 2016 at 5:12 pm

    Trump may be insane, but he is not stupid.
    Like all good salesmen, he knows how to talk enough to appear to promise something without actually committing himself to anything. To say what he knows the mark needs to hear to open their wallet, without binding himself to an irretrievable course.
    So he is proichoice and proilife, antisemitic and pro Israel, a friend of the working man and a champion of unfettered capitalism. He will launch a massive new infrastructure program with tons of good paying union jobs, and crush the lazy unions and balance the budget. He will usher in an age of strict morality and let the good times roll.

  35. 35.

    Shalimar

    November 28, 2016 at 5:14 pm

    @Bex: Neither Trump or Conway seems to care that having presidents personally make decisions on who to prosecute is a heavy step on the road to dictatorship. Sessions is going to do what they want, anyway, it is scary they don’t see any need to pretend it is his decision.

  36. 36.

    The Moar You Know

    November 28, 2016 at 5:15 pm

    Do Not Be Distracted By What The Shitgibbon Says. Pay Attention To What His People Do

    It’s killing me. Every person I know who is anti-Trump is refusing to do two things:

    1. Stop listening to the guy and start watching what he’s doing
    2. Stop blaming the GOP for losing and start looking at what the fuck Dems did wrong, because we’ve done a lot

    Figure it out, people. He’s trolling the shit out of you and you KEEP FALLING FOR IT

  37. 37.

    Shalimar

    November 28, 2016 at 5:18 pm

    @Chip Daniels: Trump may be insane, and the vast majority of our media may be morons for falling for the con over and over and over. Still, I have to think at some point they get tired of believing the Trump statement they want to believe only to have him do the exact opposite. It’s exhausting just watching the gullible fools. Most of them have to realize eventually that they’re being taken and get pissed about it, right? Some time in the next 4 years, hopefully before the Depression arrives?

  38. 38.

    Chris

    November 28, 2016 at 5:18 pm

    @tobie:

    It’s a natural response, if unhealthy. This is why the “white people, stop saying it’s going to be okay” type pushback since the 8th has been valuable. I had some sliver of hope, if you can call it that, when I and a number of other liberal relatives had this conversation over Thanksgiving, and all pretty much concluded that nope, there’s no silver lining here.

  39. 39.

    Chris

    November 28, 2016 at 5:20 pm

    @p.a.:

    Most of the Pentagon’s political clout comes from its support by elected wingnuts. None of these people are going to go to bat for it over climate change. And between the usual sucking up to politicians and the number of wingnuts in the military who probably do believe it’s a liberal hoax, it shouldn’t be hard to find people to replace any general who makes too big an issue out of it.

  40. 40.

    Yoda Dog

    November 28, 2016 at 5:20 pm

    One of my biggest fears is I will have to send my children to a public school where the curriculum is written by these demons and their limitlless flow of bullshit.

  41. 41.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 28, 2016 at 5:20 pm

    @The Moar You Know: How is what he’s doing any different from what he’s been saying for a year and a half?

  42. 42.

    Mary G

    November 28, 2016 at 5:21 pm

    @Chris: I was encouraged by talking to some wealthy Dems I know, who are totebaggers supreme, condemn It unreservedly.

  43. 43.

    tobie

    November 28, 2016 at 5:24 pm

    @The Moar You Know: Umm…this entire post is about what he’s doing, not what he’s saying. The point Tom and Robinson Meyer were making is that even when Trump seems to acknowledge climate change, he’s busy behind the scenes trying to make sure we don’t fund climate research. So, no, we’re not falling for it. Everyone agrees we need to be super vigilant.

  44. 44.

    Chris

    November 28, 2016 at 5:25 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Is there any real conflict between the Kansas-style economic policy favored by Ryan and McConnell and Bannon’s white nationalist social agenda? I don’t think there is.

    This.

    @Major Major Major Major:

    National socialism does have the word ‘socialism’ in it, so maybe.

    Yeah. It was, at best, schmuck bait then, and it’s schmuck bait now.

  45. 45.

    piratedan

    November 28, 2016 at 5:27 pm

    @Betty Cracker: well… I’d say one, doesn’t give a shit what color your skin is, they just want to make sure that you don’t have much opportunity for upwardly mobile economic opportunity… very “democratic” cementing of social strata if you prefer… the other pretty much wants to ensure that the only people who could possibly change socio-economic strata are white people. Not even nuanced racism, just an enforcement of the “social norms” that lay out who is “acceptable” and who isn’t, perhaps tolerating our “new liberal socio-economic” reality but just don’t expect to have the same opportunities if you stray from racial and strata norms a real 1984 reality where some of us are allowed to be more equal than others.

    the former is the GOP goal (apparently) and the latter is the one that Bannon and his ilk seem prepared to go after. How does Trump handle it? Who the fuck knows because I’m sure that he doesn’t think at that level AT ALL.

  46. 46.

    Yoda Dog

    November 28, 2016 at 5:35 pm

    By the same token, the fact that they came out and announced that they wouldn’t be prosecuting Hillary makes me worry for her all the more.

  47. 47.

    Archon

    November 28, 2016 at 5:35 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    I think there is a difference Betty. A Kansas-style economic agenda main goal is to minimize the tax burden of the wealthy and corporations. If white people get hurt in the process it’s their own damn fault for not pulling themselves up from the bootstraps. A white nationalist economic agenda doesn’t care about how big government is. The goal is to maximize the redirect of tax dollars and government resources from programs that might help blacks and other minorities to programs that help mostly white folks. So a white nationalist agenda would protect Medicare and social security, block grant Medicaid, ramp up agricultural subsidies and rural infrastructure projects while starving funds for urban housing, higher education, food stamps, and other social programs that might disproportionately help blacks. You would also see tax plans plainly written to maximize benefits to homeowners in red states and rural areas

    So a white nationalist agenda will be a lot less ideological about economic theory and much more cynical and divisive then the typical conservative platform.

  48. 48.

    D58826

    November 28, 2016 at 5:37 pm

    At this point I am beyond exhausted. The seeming ease with which all of this is happening and the absolute inability of any one to stop it.

  49. 49.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 28, 2016 at 5:38 pm

    @Yoda Dog: They also just said they’re not so sure he meant it when he said he wouldn’t prosecute.

    ETA: @Archon: This is one of the reasons that ‘working with Trump on infrastructure’ or whatever is morally repellent.

  50. 50.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 28, 2016 at 5:44 pm

    We are still fighting the Civil War aren’t we after 150 years?

  51. 51.

    Wayne

    November 28, 2016 at 5:45 pm

    The Bosch image is terrific. The full image even more so.
    I wonder if Dali was somewhat inspired by this.

  52. 52.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 28, 2016 at 5:45 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: And they were fighting it for a hundred years before Ft. Sumter.

  53. 53.

    Baud

    November 28, 2016 at 5:50 pm

    @D58826: Of course you’re exhausted. People are trying to sprint a marathon. It’s crazy.

  54. 54.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 28, 2016 at 5:52 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Obama Presidency was the Cold Civil War and now its going to be Reconstruction 2.0.

  55. 55.

    goblue72

    November 28, 2016 at 5:54 pm

    @Bex: They will continue to threaten it but it will never come to that. Assuming the recount will be insufficient to overturn the result, there’s no upside to going after Clinton, only downside (newsflash: the end result won’t change given that results in MI, WI and PA would all need to change).

    And if for some reason, Trump should completely lose his mind and seriously threaten this, Obama will just pardon her in advance of anything. But again, it would be beyond stupid for Trump to do this. He will bloviate and threaten to rile up his base, get the liberal fools are mad, and get the supine press to chase the shiny ball, but will eventually make some anodyne statement of “country needs to come together” & the media will lap it up to note how ‘gracious’ Trump is being.

    And if in some fantasyland the results are overturned, Clinton becomes President and its moot.

  56. 56.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 28, 2016 at 5:58 pm

    NYT headline: Combative Populist Bannon found his man in Trump. What a wonderful love story, wonder how it ends.

  57. 57.

    Aleta

    November 28, 2016 at 5:59 pm

    @p.a.: My understanding is that the military has its own land surface satellites, so doesn’t so much need NASA for its climate change observations (except prob. the weather sats right now). A number of former weapons modelers switched to climate modeling when the money began to go in that direction, with the advantage of access to the DoD’s big computing power. To hazard a guess, climate change research would continue (related to military objectives) but perhaps the independent or academic-minded research would become even less funded than now.

  58. 58.

    Brachiator

    November 28, 2016 at 6:00 pm

    @Bex:

    Kellyanne Conway told CNN today that Trump hasn’t exactly taken prosecuting Hillary off the table, it’s just that he is concentrating on other things right now.

    Just curious. Did she actually say “prosecuting?” It would be monstrous to appoint a special prosecutor to re-investigate whatever it is that Trump and company fantasize might be investigated, but I don’t see any presidential authority to actually charge Clinton with some offense and then prosecute her.

  59. 59.

    Keith G

    November 28, 2016 at 6:01 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    and now its going to be Reconstruction 2.0.

    Actually, there are political scientists and contemporary political historians who call the period of time from LBJ to John Roberts as the Second Reconstruction.

  60. 60.

    MomSense

    November 28, 2016 at 6:03 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    We are definitely in another phase of nullification. The Republican Party’s organized obstruction was the beginning and now we are going to see it on steroids.

  61. 61.

    Lynn Dee

    November 28, 2016 at 6:03 pm

    I see no reason why we can’t pay attention both to what Trump says and what his people do. Trump demonstrates daily, in new and colorful ways, he’s neither fit nor qualified to serve as President. Why should we ignore that?

  62. 62.

    Aleta

    November 28, 2016 at 6:04 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Starting to wish to secede.

  63. 63.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 28, 2016 at 6:04 pm

    @Keith G: What about the notion that Reconstruction never ended?

  64. 64.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 28, 2016 at 6:08 pm

    Another headline from Vichy Times: World of Potential Conflict for Developer President. I wonder how much the loser of the popular vote paid the publishers of NYT for doing his dirty work for him.
    Developer [email protected]Keith G: Jim Crow 2.0 then, when the gains of the Reconstruction were rolled back.

  65. 65.

    Ridnik Chrome

    November 28, 2016 at 6:10 pm

    @Brachiator: Didn’t the law that authorized the use of special prosecutors lapse after Ken Starr?

  66. 66.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 28, 2016 at 6:10 pm

    @Aleta: My town and county voted heavily for HRC as in she got between 60% to 80% of the vote.

  67. 67.

    Brachiator

    November 28, 2016 at 6:11 pm

    @D58826:

    At this point I am beyond exhausted. The seeming ease with which all of this is happening and the absolute inability of any one to stop it.

    The avalanche has already started; It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
    — Ambassador Kosh, “Babylon 5”

  68. 68.

    tobie

    November 28, 2016 at 6:14 pm

    @Brachiator: It would be great if the American Bar Association would rebuke her for suggesting that the President has the authority to prosecute. She’s a lawyer, she should know better.

  69. 69.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    November 28, 2016 at 6:16 pm

    @goblue72: I wouldn’t bet on a pardon. For all of the reasons why a prosecution would be stupid on the part of Trump, I could see Clinton deciding that a martyr role is one she could embrace.

  70. 70.

    Brachiator

    November 28, 2016 at 6:18 pm

    @Ridnik Chrome:

    Didn’t the law that authorized the use of special prosecutors lapse after Ken Starr?

    According to the Wiki:

    The term is sometimes used as a synonym for independent counsel, but under the former law authorizing the independent counsel, the appointment was made by a special panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. The Ethics in Government Act expired in 1999, and was effectively replaced by Department of Justice regulation 28 CFR Part 600, under which Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald was appointed to look into the Plame affair.

    However, niceties of the law are irrelevant to the Donald. Trump’s motto echoes that of King Louis XIV:

    ‘L’etat c’est moi’

  71. 71.

    Iowa Old Lady

    November 28, 2016 at 6:18 pm

    @Brachiator: We are all Kosh.

  72. 72.

    Mary G

    November 28, 2016 at 6:19 pm

    Things I have done today: posted a comment on WaPo that Chris Cillizza is a frivolous idiot and makes me consider cancelling my subscription every time I see his name (on his list of who the Dems will run in 2020).

    Donated $10 to Foster Campbell’s Louisiana Senate campaign (I highly doubt he will win, but 51-49 is better than 52-48).

    Donated $10 to Oliver Willis’ GoFundMe for a progressive media platform independent of corporate media.

    Cancelled a Hulu subscription I never use to help pay for the donations.

  73. 73.

    Baud

    November 28, 2016 at 6:19 pm

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: I agree. I don’t think there will be a pardon or a prosecution.

  74. 74.

    Baud

    November 28, 2016 at 6:20 pm

    @Mary G: Good on Willis. God, we need that so bad.

  75. 75.

    Brachiator

    November 28, 2016 at 6:23 pm

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:

    I wouldn’t bet on a pardon. For all of the reasons why a prosecution would be stupid on the part of Trump, I could see Clinton deciding that a martyr role is one she could embrace.

    Uh, no. Clinton would probably not be convicted of anything, but the costs of a legal defense would be pointlessly expensive, and would damage both Clintons with respect to their charities and other works. Outside of ancient religion, being a martyr confers few benefits.

    On the other hand, a pre-emptive pardon by Obama would damage him politically, at least for the short term, and provide more ammunition for ignorant voters who want to associate corruption with the Democrats.

  76. 76.

    Yoda Dog

    November 28, 2016 at 6:31 pm

    Man, I hope you folks are right. I can’t help but think these people are perfectly nasty and petty enough to try it if they can. Both the mafia taking over and their rabid electorate who’re the only voices that will matter now. With a concerted national effort to suppress the vote in future elections, like they’ve done very successfully here in NC already, they don’t think they’ll need to even bother giving lip-service to non-deplorables and fear losing power. I understand the president doesn’t have the authority to prosecute but wouldn’t Sessions hypothetically?

  77. 77.

    MomSense

    November 28, 2016 at 6:33 pm

    @Mary G:

    You are awesome, Mary G. You are my WWMGD

  78. 78.

    Joyce H

    November 28, 2016 at 6:41 pm

    I notice that this blog uses the term ‘shitgibbon’ a lot. While evocative, I know a word that would sting more – Loser. We should call Trump Loser every chance we get, because that’s what really gets under his skin. He’s all about winning, and always manages to reframe a loss as a win, at least for him. So call him Loser Trump. Make it an integral part of his name, like Motorist Rodney King. Loser Trump.

  79. 79.

    Baud

    November 28, 2016 at 6:43 pm

    @Yoda Dog: I don’t think they’ll prosecute because I don’t think it helps them. I’d be more worried about less famous people being targeted than Clinton.

  80. 80.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 28, 2016 at 6:48 pm

    Trump’s big three so far contradict each other, so I expect once in office Trump policies will just be as confusing and a lot of Trump Admin (if that word can be used) internal policy disputes projected on to liberal groups. And of course the plastic spork in the back purges of the dominance struggle losers like with Christi.

    I would not be suprised if at some point one Trump cabinet offical rapes another on national TV.

  81. 81.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 28, 2016 at 6:49 pm

    @Joyce H: I have no idea what shit gibbon means, or what gibbons have done to FPers here to be compared to the loser of the popular vote.

  82. 82.

    Emma

    November 28, 2016 at 6:49 pm

    @Brachiator: Yes! The perfect quote for our times.

  83. 83.

    EBT

    November 28, 2016 at 6:50 pm

    Everyone seems to be missing the biggest reason Obama won’t pardon Clinton. You have to admit guilt to accept a presidential pardon. She has no guilt to accept, therefore a pardon is off the table.

  84. 84.

    Mary G

    November 28, 2016 at 6:50 pm

    @MomSense: ???❤️?

  85. 85.

    gene108

    November 28, 2016 at 6:53 pm

    @Yoda Dog:

    With a concerted national effort to suppress the vote in future elections, like they’ve done very successfully here in NC already, they don’t think they’ll need to even bother giving lip-service to non-deplorables and fear losing power.

    Voting rights in states that take it seriously should be O.K., i.e. those run by Democrats.

    But states run by Republicans, who want to screw over likely Democratic voters, will have free reign to do as they please.

  86. 86.

    Brachiator

    November 28, 2016 at 6:54 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    General insult….moron, idiot, Donald Trump in particular. (Origin: Scotland)

    We voted to remain, you incomprehensible shitgibbon!

    It’s in the urban dictionary now! Originally a response to Trump stupidly claiming that Scotland had approved the BREXIT vote.

  87. 87.

    md S Oregon

    November 28, 2016 at 6:54 pm

    I’m a 71 year old grandmother making do on less than $1600/mo, I have called my congressman, Greg Walden, before and after Thanksgiving. I have sent his number along to friends who have Indigenous blood in them, and given his number to friends and teachers who are watching this horror show happening. My son is an ELCA pastor who participated with 500 other clergy at Standing Stone.

  88. 88.

    Kayla Rudbek

    November 28, 2016 at 6:54 pm

    The truly annoying thing about climate change and CO2 reduction is that there is technology out there that can turn carbon dioxide into other chemicals (not greenhouse gases) and nobody has been paying attention to it for almost FIFTY years (not to mention all the other patents and applications that have followed since). I feel like Sir Harry King in Terry Pratchett’s novels

  89. 89.

    Yoda Dog

    November 28, 2016 at 6:54 pm

    @Baud: The chants of “Lock Her Up!” and his neremburg rallies (which he says he wishes to continue) haunt me. It helps them because it will prove to the nutcases that they’re serious and that shitgibbon-Loser was right (as The Leader is always right) about Hillary being “crooked.” I agree it doesn’t make sense, to us, but we’re not insane. Its just turtles all the way down after January 20th, Im afraid.

  90. 90.

    Brachiator

    November 28, 2016 at 6:56 pm

    @EBT:

    Everyone seems to be missing the biggest reason Obama won’t pardon Clinton. You have to admit guilt to accept a presidential pardon. She has no guilt to accept, therefore a pardon is off the table.

    I don’t think that Nixon admitted guilt for any Watergate related crimes.

  91. 91.

    Baud

    November 28, 2016 at 6:58 pm

    @Yoda Dog: It won’t help them if she’s acquitted. They won’t take that risk. And they don’t have to prove anything to the nutcases anymore. They can keep them in less politically risky ways.

  92. 92.

    Mary G

    November 28, 2016 at 7:03 pm

    Good article by Richard Reeves on the Brookings Institute website: Middle America’s malaise helped Trump to victory, but he has no cure

    In the long run, the only cure is for whites, and especially white men, to change their expectation that high status, along with a decent-paying job, will be delivered to them merely by virtue of their race and gender.

    Loss of relative status is painful, no doubt. But it is the inescapable price of equality. Trump has no cure. Nobody does. In the meantime, he has provided some temporary psychological relief. But it won’t last. Trump is a temporary painkiller; the political equivalent of the opiates sweeping small town America.

  93. 93.

    Jeffro

    November 28, 2016 at 7:03 pm

    @Mary G: thanks for posting this, Mary! I’ll try to keep posting my own stuff as well.

    I think I mentioned in an earlier thread, but just to recap:
    – I called my Senators and Rep to tell them “NO CHANGES” to Medicare, Medicaid, and Obamacare
    – I’m about to send $50 to Campbell’s Senate campaign (thanks to Mary for the reminder!)
    – I’m not going to fund Oliver Willis, as I think we need to strengthen the larger platforms we already have for progressive media…will think on that for a bit, but it probably means subscribing to TPM (instead of reading the articles for free) and at least one other outlet
    – and I wrote to several bloggers and columnists today, asking them to help stop this thing at the EC. I called it “drawing to an inside straight”, but it really is our last best chance before settling in for four years of…living dangerously? Living as a Russian client state? Watching our safety net get shredded in service of the Kochs/Mercers?

  94. 94.

    Yoda Dog

    November 28, 2016 at 7:05 pm

    @Baud: @Baud: You’re probably right. Jesus, I hope so. I am NOT despairing and I will fight the good democratic fight to the bitter end but I can’t help but fearing the absolute worst.

  95. 95.

    Lizzy L

    November 28, 2016 at 7:08 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: and this here is why I don’t subscribe to the NYT: they call Bannon a “combative populist.” That’s some world-class obfuscation right there. The man’s an anti-Semitic racist nationalist, and calling him a populist insults both history and truth. From Wikipedia: The People’s party, more commonly known as the Populist party, was organized in St. Louis in 1892 to represent the common folk—especially farmers—against the entrenched interests of railroads, bankers, processers, corporations, and the politicians in league with such interests. That does not sound like Steve Bannon to me.

  96. 96.

    Jeffro

    November 28, 2016 at 7:08 pm

    @Brachiator:

    I don’t think that Nixon admitted guilt for any Watergate related crimes.

    That’s correct. The assumption, never seriously challenged, is that the President can pardon (read ‘absolve’) an American citizen even without there having been a trial. Not sure they could absolve someone who hasn’t even had actual charges brought against them.

    I once thought Obama should pre-emptively pardon Clinton, for her safety and as a final FU to Trump. Now, I don’t think that is the answer…it’ll just put more blood in the water for these never-ending rage-a-holics…it is, in a way, a reward for their insane behavior.

  97. 97.

    Shana

    November 28, 2016 at 7:11 pm

    @Brachiator: Nixon would have been impeached if he hadn’t resigned. He didn’t have to admit, or not admit, anything.

  98. 98.

    Jeffro

    November 28, 2016 at 7:14 pm

    @Lizzy L: He’s no more a populist than I am a reindeer. He throws some populist bullshit out there for the same morons (both voters and media) that got Trump elected – my favorite quote of Bannon’s was something along the lines of “we’re going to throw a trillion dollars into infrastructure, rail, ports, roads, factories, and see what sticks”.

    Setting aside that what he really means is “throw a trillion dollars in tax breaks at wealthy people for doing the projects they were already planning on doing, and/or throw it at them in useless, budget-busting boondoggles”, how the fuck is just “throwing a trillion dollars” at something a plan? Is the NYT saying you have to be a moron to be a populist? Does math not count for “populists”? It’s all very confusing, but then again I was spoiled by Obama – he sure did like to actually think things through, that rascal!!

  99. 99.

    Yoda Dog

    November 28, 2016 at 7:15 pm

    A pardon would be admitting guilt and bending to shitloser’s bullshit narrative. That we must never, never do.

  100. 100.

    rikyrah

    November 28, 2016 at 7:16 pm

    @The Moar You Know:
    Why can’t we listen and look and be offended?

  101. 101.

    Lizzy L

    November 28, 2016 at 7:18 pm

    I don’t think Clinton would accept a pardon, and I doubt Obama will offer one.

  102. 102.

    Jim Foolish Literalist

    November 28, 2016 at 7:19 pm

    @Jeffro: I think Chaffetz has already said they plan to continue committee hearings/investigations, and there’s nothing Obama or anyone, that I’m aware of, can do about that. If it hurts them in polls, they’ll stop.

    I guess CHaffetz thinks he’s smart than Trey Gowdy. I think Gowdy’s an overrated partisan hack, but Chaffetz is one dumb, smarmy little fuckwit. Trying to imagine a NFLTG HRC going in front of a Chaffettz committee.

  103. 103.

    EBT

    November 28, 2016 at 7:22 pm

    @Jeffro: Now I am curious as to what I was actually thinking of

  104. 104.

    Schlemazel

    November 28, 2016 at 7:23 pm

    @Bobby D:
    Seems aprapo for the times although Personally I would go with something from Hieronymus Bosch every time. Its how I feel

  105. 105.

    Origuy

    November 28, 2016 at 7:27 pm

    For an apocalyptic image that might fit better, how about Dürer’s Four Horsemen? I’ll leave it to others to figure who is Death, Famine, War, and Pestilence.

  106. 106.

    Kathleen

    November 28, 2016 at 7:27 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: That headline is a story line for a Margaret Atwood dystopian bromance.

  107. 107.

    CarolPW

    November 28, 2016 at 7:28 pm

    @Lizzy L:

    I would love for Obama to pardon Kerry, Clinton, Rice and Powell, the only ones as far as I know that used non-State Department email systems for general messages. With that, and my pony, I would also like Obama to can Comey’s fucking ass.

  108. 108.

    debbie

    November 28, 2016 at 7:28 pm

    @Jim Foolish Literalist:

    Chaffetz certainly thinks he’s smart enough to wriggle out of answering Dems’ calls to open an investigation about Trump’s conflict of interest.

  109. 109.

    Shalimar

    November 28, 2016 at 7:32 pm

    What good would pardoning Hillary Clinton do? Is it really going to stop Chaffetz from investigating her anyway? Is it really going to stop Sessions from indicting her anyway? They will take the blanket pardon up to the Supreme Court and claim it is unconstitutional. Even if the Supreme Court eventually rules in Clinton’s favor, the sideshow distractions still go on for years while sucking up the investigative oxygen away from all the scams the Trump administration is pulling.

  110. 110.

    hovercraft

    November 28, 2016 at 7:34 pm

    We need a much more vigilant press, and a brave one.

    Since there doesn’t seem to be much hope for getting one anytime soon, we need to kick up a rukus every time they pay attention to the sideshow and ignore the terrible actions.

  111. 111.

    Inmourning

    November 28, 2016 at 7:39 pm

    A pardon given and accepted implies a crime has been charged and the recipient of the pardon has pled guilty. That is how Ford pardoned Nixon, who had not yet been criminally indicted. And it would stop an indictment.

  112. 112.

    Kathleen

    November 28, 2016 at 7:41 pm

    @Mary G: Thanks for the encouragement and the links, Mary G. I just did the same! I also emailed Ohio Dems to tell them I wanted to part of their planning meetings in December.

  113. 113.

    Mary G

    November 28, 2016 at 7:42 pm

    @Jim Foolish Literalist: OK, that made me smile. Hillary would eviscerate
    Jason “How can I look my daughter in the face if I support Trump” “Oh, well, I support Trump” Chaffetz. I’d pay to see that.

  114. 114.

    Bex

    November 28, 2016 at 7:44 pm

    @Brachiator: Conway did not use the word “prosecute.” She answered Bash’s question (Bash used the word “prosecute”) by saying how “magnanimous” Trump has been to Clinton and that he did not necessarily want to “drag this out.” Drag this out obviously means prosecute. This clip is on Crooks and Liars. They called it a veiled threat.

  115. 115.

    Inmourning

    November 28, 2016 at 7:46 pm

    A pardon given and accepted implies a crime has been charged and the recipient of the pardon has pled guilty. That is how Ford pardoned Nixon, who had not yet been criminally indicted.

  116. 116.

    hovercraft

    November 28, 2016 at 7:47 pm

    @SenyorDave:

    Just remember that Donald Trump is a far worse person than he has shown. And he is surrounding himself with people who are as bad as he is.

    I actually think that the people surrounding the Shitgibbon are worse, they know what they are doing, the shitgibbon is out to get as much money out of us as it can, revenge on the people that voted against it is a bonus. For it’s minions screwing us is the goal.

  117. 117.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 28, 2016 at 7:48 pm

    @Mary G: @debbie: I think the CW is that Chaffetz is waiting for Orrin Hatch to finally die, or maybe retire, so he can step up to the Big Club. I’ve seen rumors that Evan McMulllen (sp?) might challenge him for that seat. I’m sure Mcmullen will be no better, or not much, better than Hatch when votes are counted, but I would love to see Chaffetz’s ambitions stepped on.

  118. 118.

    Kathleen

    November 28, 2016 at 7:48 pm

    @hovercraft: We’re going to have to be just like the whingers. Relentlessly and mercilessly pressure mainslime media.

  119. 119.

    Wapiti

    November 28, 2016 at 7:54 pm

    I think that President Obama should pardon Melania Trump for her immigration violations.

  120. 120.

    Citizen_X

    November 28, 2016 at 8:56 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Combative Populist Bannon found his man in Trump. What a wonderful love story, wonder how it ends.

    In fire. It ends in fire.

  121. 121.

    BellyCat

    November 28, 2016 at 8:58 pm

    @piratedan:

    I suspect Bannon is actually driving the bus.

    Agreed. He is the man behind the curtain. The tell? His complete lack of interest in publicity.

    My guess is that Cheney and Rove themselves would balk at the plans Bannon is going to honey-dip and force feed to the public through an easily manipulated Trump and his courtiers.

  122. 122.

    humboldtblue

    November 28, 2016 at 9:00 pm

    @Bobby D:

    Yeah he was.

  123. 123.

    Bill Arnold

    November 28, 2016 at 9:50 pm

    Snarkists might like this: Trump May End NASA Climate Change Studies So Rich Folks Can Flee Earth For Outer Space

    Indeed, Trump plans to eliminate all of NASA’s climate change research because it’s “politicized science,” instead funneling money into deep space exploration, so rich people have somewhere to go when Earth’s uninhabitable.

    …

    But all that silly mumbo jumbo is just “politically correct environmental monitoring,” according to Trump advisor Bob Walker, because unlike the threat of imminent death at the hands of starving, terrified, Syrian refugee children, climate change is just something politicians made up to scare you so you’ll be easier to control.

    … and more; worth a look (fun picture) and it has links.

  124. 124.

    J R in WV

    November 28, 2016 at 10:04 pm

    @Inmourning:

    Your first sentence directly contradicts your second sentence, and none of what you say has anything to do with the reality of pardons. You should stop talking about thing you have no experience with, or knowledge of.

    Nixon was never indicted for any crime, much less convicted. So Ford’s pardon, which took effect the moment he signed it, was effective before there was even a criminal investigation, much less an indictment or conviction.

    Obama could write a pardon, hand it to Hillary Clinton, and Hillary take it and put it in a safe deposit box in the Cayman Islands, for use only if Loser Trump persecutes her. He can’t actually prosecute her, I don’t think, as she hasn’t committed any crime, as opposed to Loser Trump, who could be convicted of a ton of crimes the day after he takes office.

  125. 125.

    Ramalama

    November 28, 2016 at 10:20 pm

    All of this talk of staffing and planning reminds me of when Dubya and Cheney claimed the White House and how they staffed up with some big time anti-Russian experts and also completely dropped the whole hunt for bin Laden that Clinton had been doing.

    It’s not passing the baton so much as restarting and then playing a completely different game using the same board game pieces.

  126. 126.

    Bill Arnold

    November 28, 2016 at 10:20 pm

    @D58826:

    At this point I am beyond exhausted. The seeming ease with which all of this is happening and the absolute inability of any one to stop it.

    Been doing a lot of mental utilitarian calculations about a Trump administration and sheesh are they depressing. US climate change policy changes are the worst. (Lives lost worldwide in the 10**8 to 10**9 range over the next two hundred years with rapid full policy reversals. Estimated.)
    One thing activists need to get comfortable with is metaphorical monkey-wrenching, at all scales. (Not real, unless impossibly well-disguised; that doesn’t end well in the US, e.g. Galleanist anarchists) Slowing the slide into fascism (not being entirely hyperbolic), and preventing catastrophic changes to climate change policy are both key IMO.

  127. 127.

    Karen

    November 28, 2016 at 10:42 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    I figured that would happen when Trump won and they wanted to stop mass immigration to Canada.

  128. 128.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 29, 2016 at 12:29 pm

    It should be noted that Prop 61 was opposed by the San Francisco Democratic Party, Alice B. Toklas Democratic Club, Stonewall Democrats, almost all labor groups, Kevin Drum, and all but three California newspapers offering endorsements, most of which said they were sad to have to endorse against it because they hated big pharma, but that it just wasn’t a good proposition.

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