Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Weird. Rome has an American Pope and America has a Russian President.

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

I did not have this on my fuck 2025 bingo card.

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

We still have time to mess this up!

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

The lights are all blinking red.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Excellent Read: “Get Off Kamala Harris’s Back”

Excellent Read: “Get Off Kamala Harris’s Back”

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There’s been some much-deserved pushback to Ryan Cooper’s “only white men like me can be allowed to serve as True Progressives” manifesto — I particularly liked Wonkette‘s “Sure Guys, It Is Awesome That We Are Shitting On Kamala Harris” — but Brittney Cooper’s essay for Cosmopolitan definitely deserves wider distribution among us political types:

The future of the Democratic Party does not rest on the back of Kamala Harris, the junior senator from California. Furthermore, it is unfair for the Democratic Party to keep hanging its hope on black messianic figures, whom it hopes can bring new relevance to a struggling party. To be clear, there is a lot to like about Harris, the first black woman to hold a Senate position since Carol Moseley-Braun in the 1990s. Despite Ryan Cooper’s screed last week about “why leftists don’t trust Kamala Harris, Cory Booker and Deval Patrick,” Harris’s policy positions on free college, single payer health care, an increased minimum wage, and criminal justice reform, are solidly to the left. Still. Black women are not Jesus. It’s not right to expect us to fix what white Americans are so committed to breaking. This debate, then, isn’t about Harris, but about the emotional and political labor that black women are expected to do to save America’s soul…

The biggest lie that members of the so-called “Sanders Left” told during the 2016 elections is that there was no appreciable difference between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. After six months of having Donald J. Trump lead the country, it’s quite clear that the left should have listened to 94 percent of black women voters. We know a disaster when we see one.

Now, to add insult to injury, those on the left are conceding the political narrative of the right. What do I mean? Did Hillary Clinton lose the election with 3 million more popular votes, or did the Trump campaign collude with the Russians while the GOP engaged in massive voter suppression to steal the election? Yes, I get the electoral college system. However, 3 million more popular votes is a win, and not only is there mounting evidence of collusion, but voter suppression was a significant problem, too. As a black “xennial” voter, I was horrified watching the GOP roll back the protection of the Voting Rights Act in locales across the country. So while it is true that if less than 53 percent of white women had voted for Donald Trump, Clinton’s popular victory might have been more resounding, there is something deeply wrong with a Left that thinks the first problem in a stolen democratic election is not theft and voter suppression but a failure to run up the vote totals on the clearly winning side…

In 2016, we were offered two kinds of revolution, one in which the “Sanders Left” tore shit down and one in which the Trump Right tore shit up. Surely you can see why black women, the ones who have been called to take the scraps handed to us by the nation and painstakingly build communities, families, and institutions, would turn down the sledgehammer no matter which white hand was holding it. Revolutionary destruction is still destruction, and black folks are the casualties of these kinds of political visions. Kamala Harris has work to do. But bearing the cross of the Democratic Party and fighting off angry white Sanders voters isn’t her work. So get off her back, and let her soar. In case you missed the memo: Black women are reclaiming our time.

Reader Interactions

174Comments

  1. 1.

    John

    “People don’t want to elect a cop president”.

    Yeah, Bro! Fight the Man! Er, Woman! Er Woman of color…? What was I saying?

    Also, Bobby Kennedy was a prosecutor. Was he unqualified in the eyes of this douchebag?

  2. 2.

    sdhays

    Well, this white man’s problem with Kamala Harris is deciding where I’d most like to see her: President, Senator, or Attorney General. From what I’ve seen, she’s awesome.

  3. 3.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    so I guess Attorneys General are out, too? Catherine Cortez Mastro and Jason Kander are also doubleplusungood?

    CCM was on Pod Save America last week, I found her pretty impressive.

  4. 4.

    Major Major Major Major

    Man, I’m so old I remember when the far left burned through messiahs like kindling. What is it that makes sanders such teflon? No accomplishments means he’s never had to compromise? Nothing to spin at all means nothing to spin as bad?

    @John: that was different, man, because of reasons.

  5. 5.

    PhoenixRising

    @sdhays: To me, the Kamala Harris problem is that the Democratic Party needs to diversify; we can’t be relying on a pool of insightful, witty and persistent Ivy-trained lawyers from the US Senate, with one African and one US-born parent and family roots in South Asia, to carry us in all the national elections.

  6. 6.

    Anne Laurie

    @PhoenixRising: Agreed, but I think you just identified why some people are having such a problem with her — they can understand how she might be electable!

    Give ’em a template, they’ll extrude a well, actually…

  7. 7.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Now, to add insult to injury, those on the left are conceding the political narrative of the right. What do I mean? Did Hillary Clinton lose the election with 3 million more popular votes, or did the Trump campaign collude with the Russians while the GOP engaged in massive voter suppression to steal the election?

    also, Comey. Also, too, Stein voters. And trump won the nomination and several states by abandoning the Republicans core domestic agenda since Reagan, undoing to the New Deal

  8. 8.

    mike in dc

    Did I miss a major news story where Jane Sanders was cleared of wrongdoing and won’t have legal troubles going forward? Because I think the assumption that Bernie will be able to run again is way premature.
    Harris looks like one of the stronger possible candidates at this point.

  11. 11.

    Lyrebird

    @John:

    Also, Bobby Kennedy was a prosecutor. Was he unqualified..?

    Good point. Thurgood MARSHALL was a prosecutor!!

    Having purity-bros (nothing like Pony fans/bronies at all, to be clear!) slime this or that candidate is bad enough, even without the in-our-face racism… and adopting the never-whoever term, to liken any Democratic candidate you can think of to Trump, shows that to this person, putting others down is way more important than winning elections.

    Who was the guy from Maryland, the uninspiring speaker who’d done a lousy job addressing police violence? A million times better choice for POTUS that the current guy.

  15. 15.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Omnes Omnibus: and things that are disqualifying, or at least serious drags, for other candidates, don’t matter for him, i.e. the crime bill and his vote to keep Gitmo open.

  16. 16.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Lyrebird: Most politically ambitious lawyers look to do a tour of duty as a prosecutor. Being a public defender is a political negative.

  18. 18.

    Amanda in the South Bay

    @mike in dc: I was still living in the Bay back when she had that spat where she refused that trans prisoner’s surgery. That’s still sore-and a legitimate reason to not like her-but otherwise she’s a very mainstream liberal Democrat. I have no doubt she’d govern as a pretty liberal President. That said, she’s definitely not my first choice.

  19. 19.

    Wapiti

    @sdhays:

    … this white man’s problem with Kamala Harris is deciding where I’d most like to see her: President, Senator, or Attorney General.

    Homeland Security.

  20. 20.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    /ahem/
    I will now say something positive about Bernie Sanders: His group is down in the weeds looking for candidates to support. Not just state legislatures but small/ish town city councils and school boards.

  21. 21.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Amanda in the South Bay: A fair point. Do you know if she has changed her position or offered a non-transphobic explanation? All politicians have warts. We just need to pick the D with the fewest warts and most charisma.

  22. 22.

    Gin & Tonic

    @mike in dc: Of course he’ll be able to run. The country, and especially liberals, are clamoring for an election between a 75-year-old shouty white guy from New York and a 79-year-old shouty white guy from New York. Nothing says “diversity” more strongly than that.

  23. 23.

    VOR

    Some people are touting MN Senator Amy Klobuchar as a 2020 candidate, ignoring that she also was a prosecutor before her Senate run. Bill Clinton had been AG of Arkansas.

  24. 24.

    geg6

    Ryan Cooper is a fuckng asshole and I don’t give a shit what he’s spewing from his stupid pie hole. I’m so sick of white men I could go postal.

  26. 26.

    Mnemosyne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Do you know if she has changed her position or offered a non-transphobic explanation? All politicians have warts.

    This. I know it drives people nuts that politicians usually lag behind the rest of the population when it comes to social issues, but that’s unfortunately the nature of politics. It frequently takes politicians a while to come around.

    I would like to hear Harris address it, because I’m still pissed at the people who refused to vote for Hillary because she once used the word “superpredators” in an interview 25 years ago.

  28. 28.

    p.a.

    Beside the Right’s ideological hatred of unionism is the practical reality that destroying unions weakens the Democratic party financially; one result is the increasing Dem turn to Wall St, ‘Big Law’, and other sources the purity ponies can hold against successful Dem politicians. Like the man said, $ is the mother’s milk of politics. Can’t win bringing a switch to a gunfight.

  29. 29.

    Lyrebird

    We just need to pick the D with the fewest warts and most charisma.

    Agreed.

    To me, one added layer of bitterness to articles like R. Cooper’s, just another irritation on top of the bigger problems, is the disdain for historical context and for African American voters/organizers specifically. I say this not from my deep knowledge and understanding but from a viewpoint of, if it seems kinda obvious to me with my own race blinders & limited knowledge, then maybe paid political analysts/writers/etc oughta think about this?????

    Af. Am. voters, when not suppressed, have been making choices between human, wart-possessing white candidates for a lonnnnnnng lonnnnnng time. Like since the end of Radical Reconstruction maybe? I haven’t heard Jim Clyburn announcing Harris or Booker or Donna Edwards or whoever as the next Messiah. Gah.

  30. 30.

    efgoldman

    @John:

    Was he unqualified in the eyes of this douchebag?

    Was said douchebag even born yet?
    I was working the early (600am-noon) radio shift when the news started coming out of the UPI new ticker – reams of it. We didn’t do any live news in those days, and technically I wasn’t cleared to announce (work study students – out of work pros taped the shows, we played them) but I went on the air with it anyway.

  33. 33.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    Identity politics! PC gone mad! Get off the plantation bitches!

    Is that about right?

  35. 35.

    Amanda in the South Bay

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m honestly not sure if she’s addressed it. I was pissed off at her at the time, and honestly thought she was merely par for the course for Bay Area Democrats (also connected to the odious and super corrupt Willie Brown). But infinitely superior to DiFi, of course. I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s addressed it (she’ll have to, to navigate the Dem primary), and I know that anyone who is a state attorney general with higher ambitions isn’t going to be the most progressive.

  37. 37.

    Amanda in the South Bay

    @Amaranthine RBG: Heh, I just mentioned that and didn’t see your comment!
    I blame Willie Brown for not extending Caltrain down the Embarcadero to the Ferry Building and sabotaging its electrification (at least I think that’s what happened).

  38. 38.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Lyrebird: True. But we can expand on that. I am opposed to the death penalty in any and all circumstances. I had no problem supporting Bill Clinton in the 1992 primary and general because, despite that disagreement, he was the best and most electable D. End of story.

  39. 39.

    Amanda in the South Bay

    @Omnes Omnibus: A lot of progressives didn’t like Willie Brown and thought he was corrupt as all hell. Being associated with him isn’t quite a badge of honour (sorta like how Bay Area Dems look better the further you are from the Bay).

  40. 40.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Amaranthine RBG:
    “If I take this completely out of context by quoting it separately from the rest of the comment than I can pretend they’re reverse sexist racists! Brilliant!”

  42. 42.

    randy khan

    People don’t want to elect a cop President.

    I’m pretty sure that there aren’t a lot of black voters who’d have a problem with her, and they have more reason to worry about cops than dudebros.

  44. 44.

    guachi

    @geg6:

    I’m so sick of white men I could go postal.

    Translation: You’re so racist and sexist you’d like to murder people who share similar superficial characteristics.

    It’s not much different than “I’m so sick of Muslims I could burn down a mosque”.

  46. 46.

    Emma

    So she f_cked another politician. Wow. Call the inquisition and let’s get to the iron maiden and the straw cages.

    Saint Agnes, Virgin and Martyr, or I vote for the third party.

  47. 47.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @guachi:
    Translation: “I know this person isn’t likely serious and is just expressing frustration, but I’m going to pretend they’re serious so I can tut-tut them.”

  48. 48.

    Mnemosyne

    @guachi:

    It’s not much different than “I’m so sick of Muslims I could burn down a mosque”.

    Or “I’m so sick of white supremacists that I could go burn down the Bundy Ranch.”

    Here’s a hint: if white guys are sick of people assuming they’re assholes, they should stop voting for Republicans by a huge majority.

    65 percent of white men voted for Trump. Thanks for fucking the country over because of your insecurities, assholes.

  49. 49.

    Lyrebird

    @Omnes Omnibus: Hm. Could that possibly stem from your understanding that elections have consequences? Hmmmmmm.

    Or, more briefly: right!!!

    I had not researched his death-penalty stance, but WJC was far more conservative than I liked, and I was already tired of the competition to see what politician could out-Southern-Baptist the other (begging pardon of any readers who identify as such) to prove that they were Good and Moral and all that. And I was so proud and glad to cast my first-ever presidential ballot for WJC, and another one four imperfect years later.

  50. 50.

    lahke

    Well, Jackie Speier still looks great from this distance. I was living in the Bay Area when she was elected to Leo Ryan’s spot after nearly dying with him in Jonestown, and still living there when her husband was killed (while she was pregnant) by someone whose brakes failed. She remained a great legislator through all of it.

  51. 51.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Why are the Bernie-Bros shitting themselves over an unknown, rookie senator?

    I didn’t know socialism is constructed of snowflakes.

  53. 53.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Mnemosyne: Sanders was a lazy asshole in a commune several years ago, but no one brings this up anymore. Or his wife’s corruption at Burlington College. Or his refusal to release his tax returns.

  55. 55.

    Juice Box

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Because she presents a threat to The One True Candidate in 2020.

    Did you see the responses to Krugman’s column today. He’s no longer a progressive either according to the ‘bros because he supported HRC and wrote a column about the many options for achieving UHC.

  56. 56.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @guachi: geg6 is a well-known, hot-headed asshole (who despises lawyers who talk about the need for people to accept the vagaries of jury duty as a necessity of citizenship), but she is by all indications a good person. If you, as a white guy, can’t help snapping at anyone who bitches about white people’s prejudices, then you are too thin-skinned to live. Obligatory army to navy insult also added.

  58. 58.

    Emma

    @Mnemosyne: I won’t because basically I. Don’t. Give. A. Flying. Floozy. What I am looking for is someone whose values align with mine 75%-80% of the time, and who is not afraid of getting down in the muck and kick ass. As far as I am concerned, if the involved parties are consenting adults, I. Don’t. Care.

  62. 62.

    lahke

    Also on the Willie Brown thing, he was 30 years older than Harris. Quite possible that he was a little exploity, there, rather than solely blaming her for any interaction.

  63. 63.

    Jinchi

    Kamala Harris was the first major party presidential candidate to…

    ?

    When did she become a candidate for president?

  65. 65.

    Mnemosyne

    I, too, am going to wander off to do other things, but I find it fascinating that we now have two (2) white male commenters who both say they’ve worked in or near California’s legislature and they both just happen to hate Democrats and have nothing but bad things to say about every California Democrat whose name comes up.

    Makes one wonder which party they were working for in Sacramento, don’t it? ?

  69. 69.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Omnes Omnibus: GoatBlower72 sometimes claims to be a mover and shaker in CA politics. But he can’t share details cause he’s modest and shit

  70. 70.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Mnemosyne:
    We don’t have to resort to conspiracy theories, no offense. Just a couple of assholes trolling is explanation enough

  75. 75.

    Kirk

    The “never_x_” declamations of the bros always seem pretty simple to me. X=”her”. Race, while significant, is just icing on the cake.

  76. 76.

    Brachiator

    @Amanda in the South Bay:

    .A lot of progressives didn’t like Willie Brown and thought he was corrupt as all hell. Being associated with him isn’t quite a badge of honour

    . Brown was Speaker of the California Assembly for 15 years, an incredibly powerful position. He was a power broker for 30 years. The only progressives who avoided him were politically irrelevant. And probably still are.

  80. 80.

    Yarrow

    @efgoldman: Agreed. A lot of people who voted for him in the primary aren’t going to do that again. And let’s see what the Russia investigations turn in wrt bots and trolls helping him and hurting H.

  81. 81.

    Ruckus

    @mike in dc:
    BS will be 79 yrs old in 2020. If nothing else I’m having trouble seeing him be electable for that alone, never mind all the baggage that he brings to the table. Which is so considerable it would require a heavy haul permit and a crane just to go to the store.

  82. 82.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    @Mnemosyne:

    Didn’t 53% of white women vote for him, too? And 25% of self-identified Latinos? I’m not trying to be an ass, M, just noting that the blame can be spread around to varying degrees.

    I’m a white male, and I wish 65% of my brethren would receive a sterilizing boot to the nads.

  84. 84.

    Fair Economist

    @Major Major Major Major:

    What is it that makes sanders such teflon?

    It’s not him, it’s the funding behind the nutty left propping him up. A number simply have to be getting money from the Russians – there’s no other way to explain why so many are defending Trump on the Russia connection or, apparently have no problem with Trump doing far more droning than the amount they demanded Obama be impeached for. Some are probably getting funding from Republicans. The Young Turks were exposed as funded by Republicans years ago – but people still listen to them.

    The real left intelligentsia isn’t so much into purity ponies. They (we?) know perfection is for Plato’s imaginary objects. They can live with Kamala Harris choosing not to prosecute one particular financier, and they can live with Bernie supporting ammosexuals. So Bernie doesn’t get attacked by the false flaggers because it doesn’t serve their purposes and he doesn’t get attacked by the real left because he still fits in the tent.

  87. 87.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Major Major Major Major: Dude, we work in Word. When I was clerking we worked with WordPerfect. Does that command work there? I use/d backspace and/or the delete key. I am good at my thing. My thing isn’t tech. Mock as you will. When it comes to a post-Apocalyptic world where fencing and/or pistol skills matter, you’ll be sorry or something.

  89. 89.

    Buskertype

    I think Kamala Harris is great. I would totally vote for her for president. That said, I think it’s pretty weird to accuse Bernie supporters of equating Clinton with trump. I mean, I’m sure somebody somewhere said that once, but the vast majority of us were enthusiastic Clinton supporters. I just don’t get it.

  91. 91.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    @Mnemosyne:

    It does, indeed. I think Harris has major potential. I voted for her for senator and think she is whip smart, eloquent, and engaging.

  92. 92.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    My thing isn’t tech. Mock as you will. When it comes to a post-Apocalyptic world where fencing and/or pistol skills matter, you’ll be sorry or something.

    I did fencing and modern pentathlon in high school and college, went to the junior olympics, good times.

    Control/command+z is pretty much the universal shortcut for undo, has been for a very long time, yes it works in Word.

    ETA: To be less caustic, you should try it out, it’s very helpful! Command-z on a mac and control-z on a PC. Undoes the last x things you typed, and in a lot of other applications it can undo a lot of other things.

  93. 93.

    Gelfling 545

    I guess we won’t have a Democratic president for a long time owing to the impossibility of finding someone pure enough for these pure hearts.

  94. 94.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    Not heard from Sarandon lately. She still think HRC would have been as bad as Lump?

  95. 95.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Fair Economist: A number simply have to be getting money from the Russians –

    I do wonder if Mueller’s digging will turn up anything on Jill Stein, and if he can/will share it

  101. 101.

    Frankensteinbeck

    I think people here give Sanders an unfair shake. His followers don’t JUST like him because he shouts and has no accomplishments and thus nothing to complain about. Or because he prevented a wo- uh, corporatist from becoming president. Watching Leftists here and in my social feeds, I find that they prioritize a reductionist, manichean view of economic class. They hate rich people. They only see solutions that involve tearing down the rich as viable. If you do not loudly, clearly state that the rich are evil, they at best have no use for you. If you say that rich people, corporations, and banks are not inherently evil (and just need to have the shit regulated out of them, say) then you are on the side of evil.

    TLDR – Sanders hates who they hate.

    @Mnemosyne:

    65 percent of white men voted for Trump.

    Jesus Christ, don’t remind me. I grew up in the South, even, but it never stops being a boot to the head how vile my demographic is.

  102. 102.

    cokane

    I dont get that Giordano tweet. Harris has never been a “major party presidential candidate”.

  103. 103.

    sunny raines

    [black women are] the ones who have been called to take the scraps handed to us by the nation and painstakingly build communities, families, and institutions, would turn down the sledgehammer no matter which white hand was holding it.

    powerful. so true.

    I just don’t get what is wrong with those on the left insistent on tearing apart the left instead of uniting to defeat the primal enemy of trump and the republicans – makes no sense to be that myopic

  104. 104.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @West of the Rockies (been a while):

    On Friday, the Late Show host sat down with Sarandon for a surprisingly contentious interview that saw the funnyman grill the actress on the aforementioned Trump statement.

    “You said, ‘Some people feel that Trump might bring about the revolution immediately.’ A) How’s that going? What’s your assessment of how ‘the revolution’ is going?” asked Colbert. “Well, I’m so happy that you asked—not really, but OK we’ll get into it,” replied a visibly uncomfortable Sarandon. “Well, have you seen this many town hall meetings of people from all parties storming and knocking on the doors of their representatives and complaining and screaming and yelling?” “Not since 2010,” Colbert responded. “No. Not since the ‘70s, I think,” shot back Sarandon.

    “This is really out of control. Now there are town hall meetings everywhere. I saw one in California where they were screaming about ICE coming in and taking people. I mean, people are really awake now because ‘the cracks let the light in,’ as Leonard Cohen would say.”

    The comedian didn’t let up. He continued to ask Sarandon why she feels it’s good that Trump, by being a bad president, is exposing the flaws in our political system. “Goldman Sachs has been in politics forever, and now we’re noticing because this guy is such a bozo that he’s just doing everything so badly that he’s not slick like everybody else,” said Sarandon, ignoring the fact that Hillary’s been dragged through the mud over her Goldman speeches for years—including by Trump. “All the fracking that’s been going on, the pipelines were all there before Trump got in… but now everybody’s awake, they’re energized, they’re calling their senators, they’re donating to all of these groups. You’re funnier, don’t you think? It’s doing great things for comedy.”

    It’s a strange, Machiavellian—and frankly, privileged—argument: that the American public is learning a valuable lesson about the broken system by having millions of less fortunate folks suffer under a remarkably corrupt administration awash in cronyism. “Now when you say ‘revolution,’ let me ask you something, you revolutionary hippie: do you mean like revolution in the head, revolution in our hearts, revolution in political engagement?” asked Colbert. “All of the above,” replied Sarandon. “But do you mean like brick through the window, line the rich people up against the wall? Because revolutions eventually get there,” he added. “You’re watching the wrong movie—that’s not what we’re talking about,” Sarandon said. “No, I’m talking about people being engaged in the system, holding representatives responsible. We have to identify real progressives, people that are going to get us health care, college education, and infrastructure, and we’re in an oligarchy right now. And people were saying ‘we don’t want the status quo,’ ‘the status quo’s not working,’ and the only candidate, as stupid as he [was and] didn’t give any specifics, was the one that—I mean, it wasn’t Hillary Clinton. It was Trump. So people wanted a change, and now they’re getting something that they didn’t expect, but they’re writing and they’re calling and they’re young people. The millennials are on fire.”

    That may be so, but these are still rather perilous times, and it’s hard to argue that Americans wouldn’t be better off under a President Hillary Clinton.

    From the Daily Beast around late March, early April

  105. 105.

    Percysowner

    @Emma:

    I won’t because basically I. Don’t. Give. A. Flying. Floozy. What I am looking for is someone whose values align with mine 75%-80% of the time, and who is not afraid of getting down in the muck and kick ass. As far as I am concerned, if the involved parties are consenting adults, I. Don’t. Care.

    Although I generally agree, the recent call for the Democrats to support Right To Lifers makes me nervous. I want values to align 75%-80% of the time with a few non-negotiable items. Reproductive rights and Civil Rights aren’t negotiable for me. One of the negatives of the Bernie campaign was that he was willing to compromise the rights of women and minorities to serve White Working Class males. I’m all for economic justice. It’s necessary, but I don’t want to be thrown under the bus in order to get it.

  106. 106.

    Ruckus

    @Laura:
    I get two political update emails. One from Harris and one from my state assemblyman. I get nothing from my congresswoman or from DiFi, both dems. In fact my congresswoman has responded to an inquiry of mine with a rather condescending response and when I acknowledged that condescending email, I got another one back. I hope some other democrat runs against her in 2018, as I’m not impressed at all.

  109. 109.

    ruemara

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): As an armchair revolutionary, she’s done her job. Now we all just have to wake up and start thinking as she does.

    @Percysowner: Dems have always supported candidates that were opposed to abortion. There’s been no change in the Democratic party plank. Nothing was done that shifted the plank. No one every said that being opposed to choice was on the menu. It just feels like things are bad enough without every thing that has always been part of being a Dem becoming yet another “DEMS ARE BETRAYING US” narrative.

  111. 111.

    RandomMonster

    Kamala Harris is my senator. Is it inappropriate that I think she’s hot? Probably, and please forgive me. But what if I said it was first hearing her in a debate on the radio?

  112. 112.

    Fair Economist

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I do wonder if Mueller’s digging will turn up anything on Jill Stein, and if he can/will share it

    I expect it will. Between the RT conference and defending Russia’s proxy invasion of Ukraine – lots of smoke there.

  113. 113.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    @Buskertype: Please don’t take offense – we know there’s a big difference btw the majority of Bernie voters who are sane and voted for Hillary, and the hardcore minority of B-or-Busters who all seem either crazy or corrupt. We just tend to overlook that difference here somewhat, especially when the purity trolls start shitting all over compelling, competent Democrats like Harris because they’re making a name for themselves nationally.

  114. 114.

    Ruckus

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    I’m not a fan of the rich, especially the uber rich. Not a fan is the nicest way I can state that. And I still think the old geezer from VT is a waste of skin and that his supporters, especially any who are still willing to back him in 3 yrs are useless fucks. He has no idea of how to not shit where he eats, so to speak. I’ve never had a dog with that little sense.

  115. 115.

    Ruckus

    @sunny raines:

    makes no sense to be that myopic

    It doesn’t but then it’s not that difficult to be that myopic when their head is surrounded by their colon.

  116. 116.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: @Fair Economist:

    When I type in Jill Stein in Google, I get “Jill Stein putin”, “Jill Stein russia”

    At the very least, I think she’s done as a presidential candidate as a spoiler. People think she’s damaged goods.

  127. 127.

    Libraryguy

    @Percysowner: The call was to accept that there are fellow Democrats, some who will run for office, who are pro-life, at least in their personal morality. I haven’t seen anybody (Pelosi, Schumer, Lujan) say we should support _anti-abortion_ candidates. I mean, this can’t be a shock – the candidate for Dem VP last year was pro-life personally, but voted to uphold abortion rights. That was not even 10 months ago.

  128. 128.

    Amir Khalid

    I weary of reading about prospective POTUS candidates being talked about from a superficial, marketing point of view. This is what I’d want to see discussed about them:
    — What they have done with their lives so far, and what they are currently doing, to prepare for one of the most demanding executive jobs on the planet
    — Whether they are on top of ALL issues that will face them as President, not just their pet issues. Saying, “Well, I haven’t studied up on that” as a certain darling of the left did, when asked about a Latin America policy issue by the New York Daily News, should be considered unacceptable or even disqualifying.
    — Their executive ability. If they lack such experience, do they have at least the potential to be good at it? If they do have eecutive experience, were they good or middling or bad? What is it like to work with them?
    — Their political and diplomatic skills. As the Trump administration shows, without these,you can’t get jack shit done.

    I hope I haven’t just been stating the obvious again.

  130. 130.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Yeah, I know a few one-time Bernie fans. They’re not all jerks or ignoramuses. Imprecise language is annoying. I will admit that sometimes the “*uck white people” comments get annoying. 65% of white men voted for the tangerine turd. Approximately 35% did not. I get that we are to assume the FWP comments are not meant universally, but when you see the comment a dozen times a day, it gets tiresome.

    OBVIOUSLY, it is deadly tiresome to be abused by f***ing racist, homophobic, misogynistic white people. I despise 2 out of 3 of my own people. Still, I do wish the qualifier “some” would be employed more frequently when someone begins with an I Hate white People comment. YMMV.

  131. 131.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @Mnemosyne:

    Show me anything bad I’ve ever said about Warren, Collins, Klobuchar, Gillibrand, Heitkamp, or scores of other female politicians mentioned here.

    Dumb.

  132. 132.

    Suzanne

    @Juice Box:

    Did you see the responses to Krugman’s column today. He’s no longer a progressive either according to the ‘bros because he supported HRC and wrote a column about the many options for achieving UHC.

    Real Progressives don’t worry about silly things like strategy or planning or research or actualization.

    I don’t know a great deal about Kamala Harris, but what I do know I like very much. I don’t know why anyone would think that the vast majority of people would have a problem with a “cop president”, though that comment is stupid because duh. However, all but the most out there of us want to have a strong and capable justice system—we just also want it to be fair and free of bias, and nonexploitative. I can’t see anybody except the Berniebros having a problem with it, and even then they’re just looking for something to dislike.

  133. 133.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    So, Harris is electable, that means she is a sell out and just as a bad as Trump the Purity Poneys, do I have this right?

    Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, less than a year after the election and these twats are claiming a black woman is establishment.

  134. 134.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @NoraLenderbee:
    Oh yeah? I used to play around with some nyms during the election. I thought nyms already in use couldn’t be used by another?

  137. 137.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Suzanne: Don’t you live in AZ? I ask because I got a fund-raising email from Ann Kirkpatrick in my junk folder and I was wondering if she was going to take another run at the Senate. I think somebody on my TV said yesterday that Flake’s support has dropped (IIRC) 17 points since he started calling out the GOP and (sort of) trump.

    @RobertDSC-Mac Mini: She is my Senator and I would like her to stay there for a long time.

    I’d like to see her be part of the majority for a while

  138. 138.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Suzanne:
    I’ll be honest, I’ve never really liked prosecutors. I know how important they are, but the stereotype for me has always been self-righteous, overzealous people looking to rack up their body count to get reelected. Harris doesn’t seem like that tho.

  139. 139.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @lahke:

    Eh, maybe. She actually showed up at functions announcing herself as Brown’s mistress – even if his wife was there.

    Brown and his wife had an “arrangement”, but Harris is just so outre

    But, yeah, Brown is a piece of work, too.

  141. 141.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Amaranthine RBG:

    Why is pie better than other desserts, like, for example, cake? Well, it has to do with the way the crust gets…. BECAUSE SHUT UP!! THAT’S WHY!!!!

  142. 142.

    Suzanne

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yes, I’m in AZ (live in PHX East Valley, work in midtown PHX). I heard that Kirkpatrick was going to run again, but I think for her old House seat. She got whooped pretty badly by McCain, and I don’t see her doing much better against Flake.

    I would be shocked to see Flake get beat. He’s a Mesa Mormon, and the AZ GOP loves Mesa Mormons.

  143. 143.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Neoreactionary dudebros: “Freeze peach! Companies shouldn’t be allowed to fire white libertarians speaking truth to power!”

    Btw: Do you work for the Great and Powerful Google?

  147. 147.

    Major Major Major Major

    @BlueDWarrior:

    Sometimes I think we need a term like NerdBro to describe the kind of (mostly White) male computer engineers and other stereo-typically geek types who have just as much of a problem with women as the douchiest of DudeBros.

    “Engineer.”

  151. 151.

    burnspbesq

    There is no logical inconsistency in being anti-abortion and pro-choice. That’s the “what you do ain’t none of my business” position. It’s also the “shut up, Cardinal Dolan, you don’t speak for me” position.

  152. 152.

    Kraux Pas

    Hey, is there somewhere you can go if you like Bernie Sanders AND Hillary Clinton AND Kamala Harris AND Deval Patrick AND Elizabeth Warren AND Cory Booker AND…?

    Because liking all the Democrats is frustrating and frowned upon no matter where you Democrat.

    ETA: Except likely at the DNC.

  159. 159.

    RM

    @Buskertype: Last time I visited the very hippie coastal California college down my in-laws are in, I saw this dude wearing a BERNIE OR JILL, NEVER TRUMP OR HILL shirt at the Trader Joe. This was in April.

    My actual in-laws are die hard Bernistas and they definitely equate Hillary with Trump, despite the fact that I remember them talking to my dad about how much they loved the Clintons back during the 2008 election.

    There’s a lot of Bernie fans who did the right thing and turned around to support Hillary in the general, but there’s no denying that the well was poisoned.

  160. 160.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @RM: hard to imagine Jill Stein’s hugely increased vote from ’12 to’16 had nothing to do with the histrionic rhetoric from Sanders and his allies– Moore, West, even Sarandon

  162. 162.

    Mike J

    @Kraux Pas:

    He caucuses as with the Democrats and votes with them pretty much across the board, counts in my book.

    If he wants to talk policy, fine. If he wants to talk about internal party stuff, like who our leader is, it’s not enough.

  163. 163.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Mike J: Exactly.

    And, you know, it’s a really simple thing that he could do, to register as a Democrat. It would make a lot of people less pissed off at him, and be good for the party he purports to support. That he won’t, speaks volumes, to me at least.

  165. 165.

    Peale

    I’m waiting to hear the wails that will arise from the left when it turns out that Bernie, too, is not in favor of overturning anti-prostitution laws and feels that while civil forfeiture abuse needs to be curbed, it is perfectly appropriate to use as a tool to take down large scale drug operations.

  167. 167.

    Applejinx

    @Percysowner:

    Although I generally agree, the recent call for the Democrats to support Right To Lifers makes me nervous. I want values to align 75%-80% of the time with a few non-negotiable items. Reproductive rights and Civil Rights aren’t negotiable for me. One of the negatives of the Bernie campaign was that he was willing to compromise the rights of women and minorities to serve White Working Class males. I’m all for economic justice. It’s necessary, but I don’t want to be thrown under the bus in order to get it.

    Yeah, and I’m down with making those rights non-negotiable as well (I am flat-out shocked at right-to-life being let in the Dem tent: and we’re the misogynists?) but to me the siding against the impossibly wealthy is the non-negotiable part. To me, the rants against ‘millyunaires and billyunaires’ consistently conveyed an agenda that I think is crucial, and claiming this is just ‘blah blah Ginger’ mouth noises is, to me, extremely suspect.

    We know we’ve got a bunch of Russian hackers dedicated mainly to causing dissension and chaos (see Adam Curtis’s ‘Hypernormalization’, this is a real and practical tactic Putin favors, and it really works). If there’s Russian moles, I’m guessing it’s the people who are on the one hand advocating right-to-life Dems, on the other hand advocating the cultivating of billionaire donors and serving their interests and doing their bidding (Kamala’s got to at least repudiate this if nothing else), and then going ‘let’s you and him fight’ between Democrats.

  168. 168.

    msdc

    @Major Major Major Major:

    What is it that makes sanders such teflon? No accomplishments means he’s never had to compromise?

    Got it in one. Well, that and his ability to tell the left they can have everything they want and it will never cost them anything, not even the minor inconvenience of having to form coalitions with people who only agree with them 90% of the time.

  169. 169.

    Ithink

    @Mnemosyne:

    Amen sister! And after 8 years of them complaining to HIGH heavens about Obama’s lack of experience & fitness for command, I just cannot even EVEN w/ them making this elected disaster their primary choice.

  170. 170.

    cat

    @Applejinx: You know Jane and Bernie are also Millyunaires, right? They’ve got over a million dollars worth of property alone, not counting salaries, savings, supplemental incomes, and, of course, the 70+K/yr pension the Bern’s got waiting for him. Assuming Jane’s legal fees don’t eat it all, the Sanders are set for life, especially if he can keep getting his vacations funded by college kids who fell for his “salt of the earth” schtick.

  171. 171.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Applejinx:

    If there’s Russian moles, I’m guessing it’s the people who are on the one hand advocating right-to-life Dems, on the other hand advocating the cultivating of billionaire donors and serving their interests and doing their bidding (Kamala’s got to at least repudiate this if nothing else), and then going ‘let’s you and him fight’ between Democrats.

    If there are Russian moles, I’m betting they are people who are more critical of Democrats than Republicans.

    Just sayin’

  172. 172.

    Bobby Thomson

    @BlueDWarrior:

    Sometimes I think we need a term like NerdBro to describe the kind of (mostly White) male computer engineers and other stereo-typically geek types who have just as much of a problem with women as the douchiest of DudeBros.

    There’s . . . significant overlap.

  173. 173.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    @West of the Rockies (been a while):

    OBVIOUSLY, it is deadly tiresome to be abused by f***ing racist, homophobic, misogynistic white people. I despise 2 out of 3 of my own people. Still, I do wish the qualifier “some” would be employed more frequently when someone begins with an I Hate white People comment. YMMV.

    Aaron Rand Freeman said it best the other day on the Unreasonably Fridays podcast: (paraphrase) “White people, if phrases like “All White People Are Racist” make you uncomfortable or defensive, you’re not there yet on your path to racial awareness. Now to be honest, you’ll NEVER get completely there, because your White, but still, if those things make you bristle, you have a long way to go.”

    My experience with fellow White people who do anti-racism work seems to back this up. The people doing the most work and the ones who have done the most personal, introspective work on trying to reprogram themselves from their White Supremacist indoctrination/bias etc.,…none of them even flinch at generalized statements about White people. I really don’t either. I usually agree “yeah, we suck.” But I used to get uncomfortable by those sorts of generalizations. All I can say is that that Fragility and defensiveness erodes the more time spent listening, reading, accepting the perspectives of Black and Non-Black PoC. After awhile it becomes diminished to the point that it no longer hinders your ability to do the work (whatever level of anti-racist work you aim to do, even if it’s just voting the right way.). Imo, confronting and trying to overcome this fragility is something all people of privilege (whether it’s white privilege, male privilege, Cis, Het, Able-bodied, etc.) need to do if we want to make the world a better place for people who don’t have those privileges. Confronting, accepting, being mindful of, and understanding where that fragility comes from is a crucial step to being able to take a more honest look at issues, and engaging with marginalized groups in coalitions. Way too often we see people on the Left get extremely defensive and threaten to take their ball and go home when a conversation about White flight, school segregation, gentrification, the protest tactics of BLM etc. comes up. Most of the well-meaning liberal people I know who still have glaring blind-spots on race, gender, immigrants rights etc., every one of them, Imo, are mostly held back by their fragility and denial of said fragility. Anyways, none of this was aimed at you, specifically. It’s just a subject I’ve been thinking about a lot recently and your comment served as a good jumping off point.

  174. 174.

    J R in WV

    @VFX Lurker:

    This is so true, pied him first chance I got, the first time he posted after Major Major etc worked with Alain and Cleek (All Praise Cleek and his works!!) to install it on B-J.

    Now I look at the replies to him, just to share in the unanimous scorn of his assholedom. (And will that pass the spam filter? We’ll find out!) It’s so nice to be able to make a choice instead of having to consciously ignore him.

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