The next Trump Cabinet scandal will involve ___________ blowing taxpayer money on a ______________.
— Kevin M. Kruse (@KevinMKruse) September 29, 2017
.
If Young Jared doesn’t beat them to the front page…
The story lives! It LIVES! https://t.co/7WAMM0Xu7W
— Schooley (@Rschooley) September 29, 2017
Corner Stone
Tax “reform” fails and Cohn and Mnuchin both get cut.
Corner Stone
Cohn is gone no matter what happens, actually. He looked like a flopping fish out of water this last week trying to sell this “tax plan”. He’s not getting the FED Chair spot. He has to know that by now.
dr. bloor
@Corner Stone: Reform might well fail, but it won’t stop them from jamming through naked tax cuts for the rich.
Spanky
@Corner Stone: And by “cut” you don’t mean “yuh fyed”.
I wanna see real blood. Coming out of their whatevers.
Baud
The swamp you drain may be your own.
Corner Stone
But God, I hope somebody has damaging pics of Pruitt. Then I hope a gang of environmental purists beat Zinke into a coma.
dmsilev
Is that Mnuchin’s fourth wife, or Mnuchin + Trump’s fourth wife? Either seems plausible.
Corner Stone
@dr. bloor: Not if they keep SALT removal in there.
dmsilev
@Corner Stone: If tax “reform” fails, the Kochs et al. are going to try to arrange “accidents” for a whole bunch of GOP Congressmen/Senators.
Gin & Tonic
“NSA warned White House”. Funny.
From Twitter earlier today: When NSA says “FYI, your personal devices might be targeted by foreign actors” they mean “we watched China exfil all your files last Tuesday.”
mike in dc
RIP Monty Hall, 96.
1. He had a black belt in karate.
2. A problem in game theory is based on the 3 Doors shtick from Let’s Make A Deal.
3. A whole, terrible sub-style of gameplay in D&D, involving overpowered characters, munchkinny play(“Murder Hobos”), and “rules rape” is named after him–“Monty Haul”–but it’s not clear whether he ever was aware of this dubious honorific.
Hunter Gathers
The press will demand that the entirety of President Gillibrand’s Cabinet resign when video footage captures them placing small bags of M&M’s into their pockets during the first Cabinet meeting. David Brooks will lament that at least Trump hated ‘waste and fraud’.
Mnemosyne
I just realized that I have everything I need to make pasta primavera for dinner, except pasta. Feh.
Roger Moore
But her emails!
Corner Stone
@Hunter Gathers: And as a Republican, you know Trump hated wasteful govt spending.
eclare
@Spanky: So sorry to hear about your kitties…
Mnemosyne
@Roger Moore:
Oh, c’mon, that’s too easy — morons on Facebook have already told me that we know for a fact that Hillary had classified information in her emails, but we don’t know that about Jared yet, so we’re not allowed to say he did anything wrong. Duh! ;-)
Spanky
@Gin & Tonic: Pretty much, but more like “China, Russia, Moldova, and Scott, that nerdy kid down the block”.
Baud
@Mnemosyne:
Fixed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@mike in dc: and an REM song
Achrachno
@dmsilev: How many? Will it be enough? 30 S & 60 C would be good.
J R in WV
@eclare:
What happened to Spanky’s kittehs? I didn’t hear about this!!!!
MJS
@mike in dc: I hate that god damn problem!
dr. bloor
@Corner Stone: I’m guessing SALT stays, and mortgage deductions get wiped our for 2+ properties (or possibly capped). Or, maybe, the standard deduction gets bumped a bit but exemptions stay. That would probably cover enough suburban R’s to get it done.
Mnemosyne
@J R in WV:
It’s in the thread below. Fuck cancer, even for kitties.
Hunter Gathers
@Corner Stone: Wait until the NYT’s editorial board has a giant sad when Gillibrand refuses to appoint Ivanka Trump as Commerce Secretary.
Baud
@dr. bloor: No way McCain votes for that.
Roger Moore
I don’t think it’s going to be a fourth wife for Mnuchin. It’s going to be more like the Jack/Jeri Ryan sex club scandal that cleared Obama’s way to the Senate. He just looks like he has some kind of bizarre kink.
Tuna
The next travel scandal will be Ben Carson…they saved the best for last.
Jeffro
@Corner Stone: So funny – those are my top two, too.
Mnemosyne
@J R in WV:
Also, I saw your comment about owls in the overnight bird thread. We now have an owl in our neighborhood — it woke poor G up at 4:30 am one morning while I was away with its screeching, and now we can hear it hooting at dusk. I’m not sure what kind it would be around here — I didn’t think owls were very prevalent in urban areas or in Southern California.
Baud
@Roger Moore: Good call.
sukabi
@Mnemosyne: if you have flour and eggs you can make your own pasta…
Snarki, child of Loki
@Spanky: “I wanna see real blood. Coming out of their whatevers”
The phrase you’re looking for is “heads on sticks”.
dr. bloor
@Baud: I wouldnt overestimate his Come to Jesus moment, but he might not have to. Unlike health care, conservadems are in play this time as well.
FlipYrWhig
@Roger Moore: He absolutely does. Never thought of it that way but SHYEAH totally.
Steeplejack
Seriously, some of the PrivateJetgate reporters should zero in on Rick Perry. He has no idea what his department does, he’s probably bored as shit, and it’s a position where he can plausibly zoom around, go on fact-finding junkets, give speeches to industry groups, etc. And he’s from Texas, a very fat-cat-friendly environment, so private planes probably just feel like the natural thing to do. If these other guys are abusing the rules, he probably is too.
ETA: Almost forgot, he’s stupid enough to get caught.
ThresherK
@mike in dc: Any truth to the rumor that he’ll be cremated and at the service Jay Stewart will carry the remains on a tray covered by a box?
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: I doubt Trump would be comfortable anywhere but in a dark, filthy swamp. This is a man who refuses to pay vendors, ran a scam university and has bankrupted several businesses. He thrives in muck.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
so a more or less useless reality TeeVee star with a big ass takes to twitter, gets schooled by Kim Kardashian
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
There are definitely great horned owls around here. I can hear them hooting, especially in the summer. They’re also apparently one of the few predators of skunks. If you ever smell moderate skunk smell over a large area, it’s often because an owl caught a skunk that sprayed (or just leaked) as it was being carried through the air.
Spanky
@J R in WV: I dropped this in the last thread.
FlipYrWhig
@dr. bloor: I guarantee they talk about it as a “trillion dollar tax cut” so that they can run on having given America a trillion dollar tax cut. Even if $999 billion goes to billionaires and everyone else gets $50 and a scratch-off ticket, that’s what they’ll call it, and that’s what Trump’s rubes will cheer.
efgoldman
@Corner Stone:
Of course, if it allows a good grift opportunity, or is for his convenience or the convenience of somebody in the family, by definition it isn’t “wasteful.”
FlipYrWhig
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That is SUCH a burn. Holy hell, Kim Kardashian just did more good for humanity in one tweet than all people named Trump have done since they Anglicized their name in the first place.
Spanky
@Snarki, child of Loki: Yeahhhh. That’ll do. That’ll do.
Mnemosyne
@sukabi:
I have to avoid wheat right now — it gives me a tummyache. :-( I’m sure there’s a way I can make wheat-free pasta at home, but I’m too lazy to do that.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Now I gotta watch E! news.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack: No doubt. We’re going to find out taht every single person in charge of anything in this WH/admin burned through taxpayer dollars for shits and giggles.
We just need to keep pinching the cheeks of people like Chuck Todd as if we were his grandma, and giving cookies to all the rest of the media.
Shana
@Mnemosyne: Do you have rice?
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That was a nice setup.
But, umm…disturbing now that I think about it.
Mnemosyne
@Roger Moore:
I did a quick Google and found this cute story about a burrowing owl that took up residence at a school near MacArthur Park. Apparently barn owls and great horned owls are two of the other native owl species.
Corner Stone
@Tuna: I hope Ben Carson survives for ever. The Bad Lip Reading episodes with him have kept me alive for the last 18 months.
Mnemosyne
@Shana:
I have Minute Rice. And arborio rice.
Really, I just need to put on my shoes and go to the store.
Corner Stone
@Hunter Gathers: Why would Gillibrand refuse? Ivanka is clearly the most qualified person for that job we’ve seen in decades.
Didn’t you see her on stage with Merkel and LaGarde that one time?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Corner Stone: Disturbing? What’s disturbing to you?
Corner Stone
@dr. bloor: It’s going to be fun watching ZEGS get fucking roasted when he tries to sell this to the 30 or so House members who will be roasted at the stake if it passes. And if what burnsie said earlier today is true that they want it retro to 1/1/2017? FIREEEEEEEE!!!
Baud
@Corner Stone: She has experience.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Jesus. If I could turn back time.
Corner Stone
@efgoldman: You left out the “Republican” part. That was the key to what all the news commentator pundit types are all saying about why Price had to go.
JPL
@Corner Stone: Oh happy day! The scant details that they showed, indicated that my taxes go up.
I hate these people.
Corner Stone
@FlipYrWhig: Thousand men enter a room. Their average net worth is $10K. Bill Gates walks in…..
Mnemosyne
I think I’ve mentioned before that G has been doing literacy tutoring with the same adult learner for a couple of years now. I was super impressed to find out that her younger daughter has a chance to go to Loyola High School, which is one of the top 20 private high schools in the Los Angeles area (and there’s a LOT of competition to get on that list). Apparently she’s up for a full scholarship, but they won’t know for at least another few months whether or not she’s going to get it. Happy thoughts, please, Juicers!
Ksmiami
@Roger Moore: Grew up in a rural part of the South Bay… had an owl hooting almost every night. So cute.
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
We had a passel living in the trees out front of my building. Could have been less than a passel maybe a couple but it was for sure more than one. Loud buggers they can be.
Achrachno
@Mnemosyne: Owls are fairly common in S CA, including urban areas. Sneaky though. You apparently have at least 2 species in your neighborhood — the screeching is probably a barn owl and the hooting is undoubtedly a great horned owl.
A Ghost to Most
@Mnemosyne:
Don’t the youngs make pasta out of zucchini these days?
/adjusts onions
Baud
@FlipYrWhig: Billionaires are the most economically anxious of all.
Mnemosyne
@Achrachno:
I had someone think that the screeching could have been a barred owl, but I don’t think they hang around in this area very much. A barn owl seems much more likely.
Mike J
@FlipYrWhig: Every Democrat on the face of the earth should always refer to the Republican “plan” as the biggest tax increase in recorded history.
For poor abd middle class people it almost certainly will be. And besides, it’s right out of the Republican playbook. Truth is irrelevant. Just say, “biggest tax increase in recorded history” over and over again.
Baud
@Mike J: There’s not even a plan yet. I honestly don’t know where all these analyses are coming from on either side.
Gin & Tonic
@Mnemosyne: Barred owls have a very distinctive call: “who cooks for you?” They don’t screech.
Ruckus
@FlipYrWhig:
Not difficult to be thousand of miles ahead on points, even a Kardashian, when your opponent has only scored in negative numbers. What is the score now anyway, minus 80 million to one? And that’s only over the last 10 months.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: pretty much
J R in WV
@Mnemosyne:
Thanks for the directions. Very sad indeed! Cancer sucks like a black hole, which most of us learn young. My oldest cousin Lou died of esophageal cancer, in like under 102 days from diagnosis. Thankful that he was able to have his pain treated and kept comfortable the whole time.
Achrachno
@Mnemosyne: There are no barred owls in S CA — you have to go to Humboldt to see them. Barn owls are the chief source or weird nocturnal screeching around here. We have western screech owls too, but they don’t screech — nor do they sound much like owls at all.
raven
@J R in WV: My BIL died of it this year and it was awful down the stretch.
Luthe
@Corner Stone: He can survive, but not as HUD secretary. As an urban planner who is working in affordable housing, I sincerely want the man (and his family, who apparently spend vast quantities of time in his office) to go jump in a lake. With weights on.
germy
Dr. Stein speaks
Baud
@germy:
It never came up in her many meetings with Putin.
Gin & Tonic
@germy: I’d be much happier with a hed of “Dr. Stein Shuts The Fuck Up and Goes Away.”
SiubhanDuinne (at some point in the indeterminate future to be known by my real name, Judith Mann Costello, but maybe not quite yet)
@germy:
Fuck’er. Fuck’er fuck’er fuck’er.
FFS.
Corner Stone
@Gin & Tonic: I’d be much happier with a hed of, “Shotgun Blasts Are Heard”
Jeffro
My RWNJ dad is excited about the possibility of tax cuts…in his view, “there should be a 5% VAT on on purchases below $500 to pay for universal health care, plus a flat income tax to ensure there’s no cheating.”
Look at that – that is what passes for ‘deep thinking’ in the GOP. Never mind that capping a ‘5% VAT’ at $500 is not flat, but regressive. Never mind that there are plenty of ways to ensure that citizens who are being taxed at progressive rates do not cheat.
So I called him on it and he said (no, seriously): “many middle class households’ appliances cost more than $500, so capping the VAT at that amount is fair and flat”. Oh, and “as soon as you talk about higher rates on higher incomes, you’re talking about cheating”.
I’m thinking of mailing him a statue of a golden calf, to pray to every day since he does it metaphorically already. Any other suggestions?
Adam L Silverman
@FlipYrWhig: pick 3 or fantasy 5?
chris
@Mnemosyne: @Mnemosyne: A place to start. I do this every spring when owls and their young make lots of noise around here. YouTube is a goldmine of birdsong.
debbie
@germy:
Going forward, anyone who utters “fake news” must be tased.
Jeffro
@germy: Why didn’t they just ask her if she felt the Russians had bought her off too cheaply? She’s worth more than just a couple mil, dammit! Not many people in the world have the talents that she does – she deserves to be paid accordingly!
randy khan
@Baud:
Oh, come on, there’s a 9-page PDF (one page blank and lots of white space on the other pages, but still, 9 pages). Surely that’s enough for a perfect analysis.
That said, since ZEGS has made it clear that he wants to kill the state and local tax deduction for a while, I think it’s safe to conclude that’s the plan.
Corner Stone
@Jeffro:
Telling him you can no longer communicate with someone who has so much hate in his heart?
Albatrossity
If the Russians haven’t accessed Prince Jared’s phone and email, it’s a good bet that the Israelis have…
randy khan
@germy:
tl;dr: I never said those exact words, but that’s precisely what I meant.
Adam L Silverman
@Luthe: There was a news report last week that HUD refused to respond to an inquiry, from one of the non-partisan ethics watchdogs, seeking information on what exactly his family is doing at HUD and why. The RUMINT is that his wife is actually running things and his son is trying to broker deals for people.
Shalimar
I love that the Politico article mentions Kushner’s portfolio of responsibilities, as if he is really doing something about any of them. This is someone who held c a meeting on Israeli – Palestinian peace negotiations with White House staff, without bothering to include anyone from State. When Trump gave him authority “over” all these things, all it meant was that he can call whoever he wants c without bothering to tell whichever department is normally involved with that issue. Kushner will never accomplish anything, because no other modern government including dictatorships works that way
Corner Stone
Jonathan Allen should be hung upside down in a tree over a fire that will eventually burn through the rope in a field filled with wild boars.
germy
@Jeffro: He’s in favor of Universal Healthcare. That’s a start. I disagree with him about how to pay for it, though.
Adam L Silverman
@germy: I’m sure these answers made more sense in the original Russian.
Corner Stone
@randy khan:
Hope he enjoys suntanning salons and drinking merlot before noon.
germy
@Adam L Silverman: I still think she was a useful idiot. She seems so clueless. Arrogant and clueless, like any other anti-vax doctor.
Baud
@randy khan: Even if she said and meant just as bad, she’s a liar or has a perverse sense of what is bad.
rikyrah
@Corner Stone:
So, he sold his soul for what?
Steeplejack
@Jeffro:
Send him a nice Japanese money cat. You can probably find one at Eden Center at Seven Corners. I’ve seen them there.
Gin & Tonic
@germy: The phrase you’re looking for is “bought and paid for.”
Jeffro
@Corner Stone: He turned tail and ran already, claiming that the ‘dialogue’ had gotten too serious. Um, okay. Don’t stop and think or anything. Just throw the usual RW BS out there and expect it to roll right off…
Anyway…
Ohio Mom
@Jeffro: How frustrating to have a dad who believes such nonsense.
Most people do not have realistic numbers in their heads when they talk about taxes. Ever ask somebody when they think the estate tax kicks in, or how few families end up paying it? They usually haven’t a clue. Also good for a laugh is asking what the term “marginal tax rate” means.
I often start off by agreeing with someone like your dad that it is true, they DO pay too much in taxes. Then I add that the reason they do is because the rich aren’t paying enough. That usually confuses them so much –how could I be so right about their situation and so wrong about rich people — that they are silenced.
J R in WV
@Spanky:
I saw from directions Mnemosyne left…
So sorry for your loss, we love them so much and they are gone so soon. At least you know you gave them a warm loving home, and they loved you too.
satby
@Spanky: I am so sorry Spanky. Losing so many so close together makes it so hard. They had good lives with you and Mrs. Spanky.
Corner Stone
@rikyrah: Just like all the GOP. They thought they were going to get a chance to destroy all govt, loot SS and Medicare/Medicaid and pass tax cuts that put the Oligarchs in place for generations to come.
He thought he could jump off the tiger and outrun him, because he’s so much smarter than everyone else. But the Dignity Wraith got him. He’s done. Don’t feel bad for him though, as he’s still got $700M in ducats to dive into in his personal vault each night.
Jeffro
@germy: he doesn’t mean the same thing that we progressives do when he says, ‘universal health care’, though. I’ve had enough conversations with him that what he means is kids and old people get taken care of after they’re sick (preventative care/checkups/wellness visits are ok if people pay extra) and naturally women don’t get birth control on his dime PLUS everyone has to pay for their own families’ pregnancy/delivery costs/stays out-of-pocket. Some of ‘those’ folks, after all, are having too many babies that ‘we’ pay to deliver, and then pay for their welfare, dontchaknow.
In other words, “keep my Medicare and my meds rolling, and I’ll spring for a little extra dough to pay for sick lil’ Johnnie, maybe…but them browns is having too many babies and I don’t feel like paying for them to be delivered.” He calls this ‘universal health care’
Ruckus
@Gin & Tonic:
So she is a cheap ____________
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: YOU ROT IN HELL!!!!!!!
Gin & Tonic
@Omnes Omnibus: Is that image this generation’s goatse?
Steeplejack
@germy:
How about a tiny tax—just pennies—on stock trades? Let all those automated trading programs pay for universal health care.
Gravenstone
@debbie: So we should just fit Trump for his shock collar, now?
Patricia Kayden
@Hunter Gathers: Lol! They wouldn’t dare try any such thing. By the time Mueller chucks Trump out of office, the MSM will be forced into covering real news instead of making googoo eyes at Trump.
Who would take them seriously if they went after a Democratic President after how gentle they’ve been to Trump?
Ruckus
@Jeffro:
I was going to make a snarky comment but that’s too far, even for me.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: I have pulled a ticket number for his tumbrel ride. What happens next is up to him.
Jeffro
@Ohio Mom:
This is so on-point it’s almost painful: per the Brookings Institution’s Tax Policy Center, about 11,300 estate tax returns were filed for people who died in 2013, of which only 4,700 were taxable, less than 1 in 550 of the 2.6 million people who died in that year.
And just to add to that: yes, they are paying tax on top of whatever other taxes kicked in along the way to building that estate…income, sales tax, whatever…but so what? 1) we all pay a variety of taxes, which is actually smart – it helps diversify the tax base and shares the load, come good economic weather or foul, and 2) if the estate is big enough to be taxed, then that estate must have done pretty well and the heirs STILL will have a nice big chunk of change they didn’t earn, anyway.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
I think I have to agree. I thought I was going to see a clown and I realized that I did.
Achrachno
@debbie: “Going forward, anyone who utters “fake news” must be tased.” Even referring to Fox?
Ruckus
@Jeffro:
Progressive taxation? What the fuck is wrong with you man?
How can a rich fucker like one of the kochsuckers hold his head up if he hasn’t screwed the rest of us out of 2% of his billions of income?
Jeffro
@Ruckus: Yup. It all sounds good until I start asking for details, right? And then when I point out that capping a VAT at purchases of $500 or less is not, um, all that flat…well, that’s just shrill of me. Typical Repub double-standard BS.
Omnes Omnibus
@Gin & Tonic: @Corner Stone: @Ruckus: The horror….
debbie
@Gravenstone:
Works for me.
@Achrachno:
On camera.
germy
@Steeplejack:
I definitely agree. And wasn’t that one of Hillary’s campaign promises? A financial transaction tax?
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
No shit.
Have to give him points though, he got us to look.
germy
@Gravenstone:
Collar? Why not a shock codpiece?
Jeffro
@Ruckus: Randians just have issues with sharing anything, in the slightest. Even if it’s not theirs to begin with, or was theirs through accident of birth. Evolutionarily speaking, it probably was an asset at some point. Now it’s just in need of weeding out.
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Did you read the comments? They believe there’s an adult diaper somewhere in there.
Ruckus
@Jeffro:
You know, not having a family isn’t sounding so bad right about now.
Steeplejack
@Jeffro:
After reading this, I think you should get an extra large money cat for your father, deliver it personally and break it over his head.
Ruckus
@germy:
You do have a way with words.
NotMax
To fill in the blanks:
#1) all of ’em, Katie
#2) perk to which they believe they are entitled.
SATSQ.
germy
Dr. Stein retweeted this a few hours ago:
Gravenstone
@germy: I’ll grant that has the added benefit of likely preventing him from ever reproducing again. Granted, we still have the Uday, Qusay and Lucretia. I’ll leave the last two to their own devices until such time as the prove they deserve the punishments due the elder three.
germy
But her emails!!
@Jeffro:
So his premise is that we shouldn’t tax higher incomes because they’ll cheat anyway?
Corner Stone
Anytime some body feels like fixing the fucking back button that would be appreciated.
Gravenstone
@germy: Did Doughy Pantload change his name when no one was looking?
germy
@Ruckus:
Ruckus
@Jeffro:
Birth isn’t accidental, at least theirs wasn’t. That’s what makes them so special, they were delivered by
private midwife, no, that’s private messengerno god hisself.Adam L Silverman
@Albatrossity: I guarantee you he ignored the counterintelligence and operational security briefing he should have gotten before he went. The bottom line is 1) assume all of your electronic devices – phones, computers, tablets, etc will be compromised if you go to Israel and 2) expect to be approached for HUMINT exploitation while there.
I’m sure he dismissed all of this because he’s known Bibi since he was a little pischer, Bibi’s a friend of the family, and he would never do that to Jared.
efgoldman
@germy:
He’d never feel it
Adam L Silverman
@germy: that too
Omnes Omnibus
@germy: Baraka is a loony.
Ruckus
@germy:
OK, I see you answered that question.
So the nickname dense, that’s really appropriate, isn’t it. Maybe it should be fucking asshole dense.
ETA I see the question of the day is, “How much does a vice president cost?”
germy
@Omnes Omnibus:
Case in point:
Omnes Omnibus
@germy: Just note, he was Jill Stein’s running mate.
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
60,000 volts?
Yeah even little dick would feel that.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
That will look good on a resume.
But her emails!!
@germy:
Why can’t this country have a sane Green Party not captured by foreign influence and funded by in part by the right wing?
efgoldman
@Adam L Silverman:
Right. And Kushkie’s father in law
is a straight-up guy wouldn't penny-ante cheat every fucking body he comes in contact with.
germy
@Omnes Omnibus:
I know. Just think, he could have been a heartbeat away from the presidency! It was so close…
Ken
@germy:
There has to be something large enough to attach the electrodes to
Mnemosyne
@Jeffro:
Someone here cursed me with this, and I pass the curse along to you: Adam Lee at Daylight Atheism decided to take a page from Fred “Slacktivist” Clark’s book and did a chapter-by-chapter critique of Atlas Shrugged. It took Lee about a year and a half (maybe closer to two years), and it’s hard to stop reading it, especially when you realize that there are actual Objectivists commenting. (Some ex-Objectivists who woke up and have great insights to share, one or two current Objectivists who are just as dumb as you’d think.)
One of the ur-narratives that someone in the comments found in one of the Rand biographies was that Rand’s mother tricked her into giving away some of her toys by claiming that she was just going to put them away for 6 months and then let Rand have them back. So, as with so many of this situations, Rand was created by really crappy, sadistic parenting.
Lee’s now tackling The Fountainhead, which at least works better as a piece of fiction.
Major Major Major Major
@germy: wow, that’s a crazy thread. I wish I could go back in time and not read it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Omnes Omnibus: I”m just a reporter, reporting on what singer and actress Cher said about an important internet meme
@debbie: seems to me trump wears diapers was a hashtag for a while
Another Scott
@Spanky: I’m very sorry. Condolences to you and your wife and your kitty pride.
Hang in there.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jeffro
@But her emails!!: His premise is that anything but charging people the exact same tax rate, across the entire spectrum of incomes and wealth, is a crime on a par with stealing and possibly murder.
It’s not that they’ll cheat if we charge them higher rates, it’s that it’s somehow horrible, Horrible, HORRIBLE to think that those who are benefiting the most from the current system, and/or those with the most to protect, should pay more taxes (even while still remaining quite wealthy). I have shown him eight ways to Sunday how it’s better to be a millionaire paying a 50% rate than a minimum-wage worker paying zero income tax (and everything in between) – it just doesn’t register.
germy
@Mnemosyne:
I think all of the monsters (both theoreticians and politicians) who ruined this country were paying back the shitty parenting they endured (this includes 45).
Jeffro
@Ruckus: Even well-off progressives born into middle-class (or higher) families think that they got there by their own hard work since Day 2, full stop. It’s tough to get them to recognize any/every advantage (much less lucky breaks) they’ve had. Actually ‘tough’ is not really the word – ‘nigh impossible’ is more like it.
Ruckus
@Jeffro:
Is he a religious man? I only ask because he seems to be unable to grasp reality.
Major Major Major Major
@Spanky: oh my gosh I didn’t see that, I’m so sorry to hear that. How terrible.
Jeffro
@Mnemosyne: Gee, thanks!
Scanning through, loved this:
Was there ever a question about this? I mean really, people…PRINCIPLES!
Lulymay
@Mnemosyne:
“I didn’t think we had owls in urban Southern California”
I spend the winter just east of Yuma and we have owls out here. Also worked in Victoria, BC several years which is definitely urban and owls were numerous. As long as you have a few tall trees and little varmints creeping along the ground in the dark, then them there owls will be there to pick them off, old dear!
Mnemosyne
@germy:
Yup. I remember that Grover Norquist also had some creepy stories about his father’s emotional abuse — basically taking food from him and claiming that’s what the government did when it took taxes.
And don’t even get me started on Jerry Falwell’s horrendous father, who thought it was a funny prank to kill a coworker’s beloved cat.
efgoldman
@Jeffro:
It should be astonishing, but it isn’t, how many otherwise intelligent and sensible people turn stupid and innumerate when taxes are concerned.
Another Scott
@Jeffro: This old picture from Puck – Our Robber Barrons (via the TR Center) might get his attention…
But maybe not.
Hang in there.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ruckus
@Jeffro:
Well we all know a self made man or three. Bootstraps that could lift the Statue of Liberty and 27 guns to protect him from all the people who, while little nothings with no power whatsoever could, with out any effort, also whatsoever, steal everything he’s already taken from someone else.
After all if he could steal it, shouldn’t anyone/everyone else be able to?
Jeffro
@Ruckus: He’s not really religious either in terms of attendance or donations, and certainly not belief. I’ve noted to him before that – as a long-time atheist, I’m still a much better Christian than he is – and it seems to hit home for a minute or two, then pass by. Not really big on reflection or growth, my clan.
Major Major Major Major
There’s a young man at the table next to me explaining to a woman friend how Hillary is a monster for causing Donald Trump and that in her book (which she has read and he has not) Hillary doesn’t take responsibility for anything. She explains that Hillary does. He demands examples (loudly!) and she gives them, and then he falls silent. Finally he says “I guess the problem I have with her is that she’s a neoliberal.”
EDIT: omg it’s a date!!! And he said “I’m sorry. I’m just not interested in dating a liberal.”
She said “we don’t have to talk about this.”
He said “yes. We do.”
Millard Filmore
@Corner Stone:
No! They are not anarchists. They want a small government, very small. The proper size of government is one that is just barely big enough to protect ME, but not so big that it can protect YOU.
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: Ask him to define the term.
gbbalto
@Another Scott: Tried link, was Forbidden in Windows. Got error msg in Chrome.
ETA – Googled for image, got so many different ones that I couldn’t tell which one you had picked
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
Fix’d.
I am so glad that I was able to find and marry a man who actually likes women and happily voted for Hillary. His primary concern about her as a candidate was that she would end up getting drowned by the bullshit that the right wing threw at her and, sadly, he was correct.
ETA: If that guy isn’t interested in dating a liberal woman in San Francisco, he’s going to have a long, lonely wait to find the woman of his dreams. He needs to move to San Diego, or Fresno.
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: lol no.
I think she’s trying to worm her way out of the date, he’s mansplaining that baby I’m just tired and it slipped out, I get angry when I’m tired.
ETA now he’s explaining that it’s just been so long since he talked to somebody who isn’t a radical, he just didn’t know what to do.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: He is not getting anything tonight. /CPT Obvious
Patricia Kayden
@Major Major Major Major: Wow. She should tell him that she’s not interested in dating a jerk and stomp off.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: his problem is that she’s not a radical leftist.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
If you were more outgoing — and straight — I would advise you to walk over to the table and pretend to recognize her. She might even be desperate enough to get out that she would go along with it.
I need to save that for a “meet cute” idea if I ever write a contemporary romance.
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: Ooh, I just read the ETA. Dude is going to be lonely for a long time.
But her emails!!
@Jeffro:
I hear you. I’ve tried several lines of attack. They never seem to work. My personal favorite is the argument that basically uses the concept of marginal utility. The simplest is pointing out that everyone still gets taxed the same rate for the different brackets, it’s just some of us don’t make the income to reach those levels. A guy making millions a year still pays the exact same amount on their first 50K as the guy only making 50K in taxable income. The real unfairness is between the treatment of salaries and dividend income.
You might want to ask him if it’s OK if we all get taxed at 70% and then the government just cuts a check back to the people who aren’t making as much money. When he protests, you could point out that’s basically what they’re doing for him. You pay taxes and aren’t getting your healthcare covered by the Federal Government.
Jeffro
@Omnes Omnibus: LOL, you think?
@Major Major Major Major: He really thinks that’s going to help him get back in the running here?
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: she’s got this, but I’m prepared if it gets dire.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
Awww, poor baby stepped out of his Sanders/Stein bubble for one night and got slapped in the face by reality?
A guy like that is going to have an even harder time finding love if he’s looking for radical leftist women who are just as misogynistic as he is. I’m guessing he stepped out of his comfort zone because the women in his usual social circle have already wised up to the fact that he secretly hates them.
Lizzy L
@Major Major Major Major: Patricia Kayden beat me to it. Except “jerk” is not what I was planning to suggest. I was going with cabron and putz.
Ruckus
@Jeffro:
People have shitty upbringings and wonder how is it possible that they got chosen for that. They inherit a little something and think they must be special because they lived through the shitty childhood and got paid for it. From my acquaintances over the years and personal experience I’d have to say that few of us had great upbringings. Some were far worse of course. My neighbors who I went to HS with came home to find their parents, dead by murder/suicide. I know of two kids who seemed to have pretty good upbringings. Two. I don’t know if they are the only two or if in fact their upbringing was actually all that great. I know quite a few more who turned out OK in the long run. But we humans really aren’t all that evolved.
satby
@Major Major Major Major: back when I still bothered with dating, in Bush the Lessor’s misadministration, I actually got stuck on a blind date like that. It started out civilly, but after about ten minutes we were leaning across the table at the restaurant hissing stuff like “well, since I’ll never see or speak to you again, you should know…”
Fun times.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: he’s basically completely humiliated at this point, she almost seems to be enjoying it.
Mnemosyne
@Jeffro:
Well, there is that weird folk belief among some younger guys that if you insult a woman, she’s more likely to want to date you. This is based on a serious misunderstanding of why some women prefer to date jerks (usually they’re working out their daddy issues and that’s a relationship that’s no good for anyone involved, even tangentially.)
Ruckus
@Jeffro:
I see that you met my mom.
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
He should move to Fresno, if for no other reason, to make SF better.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: this wasn’t ‘negging’, he’s just an asshole.
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: This is better if you hear it in your head in the David Attenborough voice.
satby
Been up since 4am so I have to get to sleep, but if there’s a Watergirl sighting, let her know I was hoping to catch her on a thread. Not sure she’s gotten my last email. Night all.
efgoldman
@Ruckus: @Mnemosyne:
Glibertarians, Objectevists, Randians – whatever they call themselves this week – keep bumping up against this little thing called “reality.” No matter how much they squirm, they can’t get around it. That’s why they usually give it up by their thirties.
Another Scott
@Major Major Major Major: I see that young men still are too often incredibly stupid.
I hope she finds someone more compatible.
Cheers,
Scott.
(Who was a young, incredibly stupid, man once. He tries to be less stupid now.)
Mike J
@Major Major Major Major: I’m a neoliberal shill and I got invited to a militant labor meeting last night because I’m aware of US colonalist history.
Ruckus
@Lizzy L:
Sounds a bit more realistic.
dmsilev
@Gin & Tonic: Like describing the mating rituals of bower bird or the like? Could work.
Ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
Somebody should get something positive out of the time
spentwasted.Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: …you are correct.
@Mike J: well this guy would never date you.
Another Scott
@gbbalto: Sorry about that. It works for me on Chrome on Winders, but maybe I’ve got a cookie set or something.
Puck –
“Our Robber Barons” at the TR Center.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jeffro
@But her emails!!: Good points. In the end it’s always Randian or racist (or both) BS that drives their argument and really those are just variations on a theme: it’s the “Other” that’s coming to take my stuff. In theory we all have those thoughts and the desire to protect ourselves/our family/our tribe from outsiders, so it’s really a matter of who we view – are taught to view – as outsiders.
Major Major Major Major
@Another Scott: your original link was to the raw image, which yadda yadda internet you can’t do that with that particular image.
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
Aren’t the ones who give it up by their 30s the ones without the inheritance? They find they actually have to make a living doing something someone will pay them for.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: What kind of a restaurant is it? He deserves a bowl hot spaghetti on his head.
Jeffro
@Mnemosyne: Ugh. Glad I never had that in my dating-conversation ‘repertoire’
Millard Filmore
@Jeffro:
At the next opportunity, ask him if “the rich” should be able to hide their activity behind the corporate veil, and hide their assets behind corporate bankruptcy. What is the obligation of a man whose company’s chemical dump catches fire, explodes, kills about 20, injures and maims about 200, and destroys 500 homes? Does it end with having the company declare bankruptcy?
Jeffro
@Major Major Major Major:
That would make for a pretty meta- t-shirt:
I’m Not
“Negging” You –
I’m Just
An Ass
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: Thai. He got something complicated looking. Didn’t want to gawk too hard so I dunno what she had at her disposal.
Another Scott
@efgoldman: “Who cleans the toilets in Galt’s Gulch?”
Whoever came up with that is a genius.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@Major Major Major Major: Okies. Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: Even better, super hot curry with Thai chilies across in the face should do the trick.
burnspbesq
@Jeffro:
All VATs are regressive. That’s why it’s surprising that Repugnicans don’t love them.
dmsilev
@Another Scott: Even with Rand stacking the deck as much as she possibly could for her protagonists, she could only make things work out by giving them literally a perpetual motion machine. So, basically, “just add magic”, which is about what you’d need to do to get Randism to work in the real world.
Ruckus
@Jeffro:
I’ve had a variation on it. It is less than fun and best to run as soon as possible. It took me a while to learn that.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: Sure, sure.
Mnemosyne
@Millard Filmore:
I think I’ve dealt with enough conservatives to know the answer: since the guy didn’t personally pull a lever and cause the explosion, he’s suffered enough already.
These are, by the way, the same people who think that all Muslims are collectively responsible for any terrorist act that happens anywhere in the world.
Jeffro
@Millard Filmore:
I’ll ask, but I already know the answer: it ends with the man’s company/corporation/shell company/pass-through corp either having its insurance company pay these folks a pittance and/or the company declaring bankruptcy (to end the lawsuits and losses). Full stop. The rich guy would walk away with his Lear jet still fully gassed up.
I’m not justifying it in the slightest , I’m just saying I already know what he’ll say: “What good does it do for the CEO to put on sackcloth and give away every last cent? “How does that help society or bring back those 20 people?” Oh, I dunno, maybe it reinforces the rule of law and responsibility to each other? Maybe selling the Lear jet helps pay to rebuild 50 of those 500 homes? But it won’t register, I guarantee it.
Jeffro
@burnspbesq: That’s what kind of blew me away – it’s not just a VAT, he wants it capped at purchases of $500 or less. That’s regressively regressive!
Jeffro
@burnspbesq: Plus, they’re probably conflicted – it’s still a tax, after all
Jeffro
@efgoldman:
And then just morph into being IGMFU Republicans
dmsilev
I counted. Today, I received 203 political fundraising emails. So far.
Surely there must be a better way.
Another Scott
@dmsilev: Of course, when she was asked about things like that, she would (and did say) (roughly), “I don’t write about the way things are, I write about the way things might and ought to be.” She had a huge ego. ;-)
I was quite taken with her books for a while (I “discovered” them kinda late), but even I grew out of it by the time I was 25 or so. Like anything, when taken too far (as she demanded that it be taken), it’s toxic. And her characters were flat. But when you’re starting out and seeing how stupid so much of the world is, the idea that self-reliance and defying obsolete conventions is something worth thinking really hard about, well those ideas can be really appealing. For a while.
But worshiping the dollar as a reaction to one’s childhood under Stalin, well, that’s kinda sad.
And her personal life was a trainwreck (cheating on her husband and expecting him to like it, etc., etc.).
Anyway, every generation has to relearn from its own mistakes. Usually they don’t have to do so in a nuclear or economic wasteland – let’s hope that continues to be the case.
Cheers,
Scott.
Millard Filmore
@Jeffro:
The real world example is the West, Texas fertilizer company. Insurance paid out between 10% and 15%. Walk away with your millions? Sure. With all the Hollywood Accounting tricks, if your public facing company is making more that a trivial amount of profit, you are doing it wrong.
Tenar Arha
@Adam L Silverman: I say the Vidui every Yom Kippur and question myself and my actions, how do these people not go up in flames?
ETA Yeah yeah, I know, that’s not how it works.
Mnemosyne
@Jeffro:
So does he feel that way about anyone who caused the death of 20 people and injured hundreds more, or only the rich, white ones?
Ask him if Juan Manuel Alvarez was unfairly given life without parole after he caused a train crash that killed 11 people. After all, Alvarez didn’t mean or plan to kill those people, but the state of California felt it was neglectful of him to jam his SUV into the tracks and then walk away as the train approached.
But Alvarez wasn’t a white millionaire, so he’s going to spend the rest of his life in prison.
Ruckus
@Millard Filmore:
One mans trivial profit is another mans horrible loss.
Matt McIrvin
@Jeffro: Hey, at least he believes in flat tax rates. I’ve seen wingnuts who insist that a flat tax is too progressive and the only tax that makes sense is a constant fee per capita, paid by paupers and billionaires alike, like Margaret Thatcher’s “Community Charge”.
Roger Moore
@Millard Filmore:
Yep. They want to shrink government until it’s too small to help Those People.
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I thought that was Montgomery Clift?
Tenar Arha
@Major Major Major Major: OMG, please, did you tell her to RUN AWAY?
ETA Read further into thread…yay!
Amir Khalid
@Matt McIrvin:
Centuries ago it was called a poll tax, and it was just as unpopular then.
Ruckus
@Matt McIrvin:
I once knew a black man with a 4th grade education in the early 50s from a Louisiana bayou who was far better at math than Margaret. Of course he wasn’t an idiot, just poorly educated. Which is much better than a well educated idiot. He could and did learn. Which is far more than she did.
gbbalto
@Another Scott: Thanks! good one
Adam L Silverman
@Tenar Arha: I do not know.
When I thought I was going to Israel to represent the Army at a conference back in 2009 and when I was told that I might go and accompany the assessment teams we sent as part of the DOD’s portion of the Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations in 2014, my plan was to buy a burner flip phone to use when in country to be turned over to the CI folks when I got back for their examination. I was going to leave my personal phone, work laptop, my iPad, and an Army issued blackberry behind. Notebooks and pens were going to be it for me in terms of work tools.
I hope you had an easy fast. I ate far too much at the break fast I went too. I now feel bloated and not so fresh…
Jeffro
@Mnemosyne: I think the answer is going to be, if the business owner is rich, old, white, and male (or at least as many boxes there as can be checked) then he should pay a fine or his insurance deductible or something small (BUT PAINFUL! OH SO PAINFUL!) yet still walk away with his millions with a lesson learned.
What would be far more interesting would be to set that up, get his response, and then ask him if the CEO was Hispanic and the victims were non-Hispanic whites…(or any other reverse-scenario)…he’s still ok with the CEO walking away, right? Or if the non-white CEO was running a small restaurant and 200 rich white folks went up in flames due to a grease fire: we’re good if insurance just pays out a small stipend and the CEO walks, right?
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
AFAIK, it’s supposed to be a form of psychological manipulation used by PUAs on their targets, so it’s not something being used by men who are interested in long-term relationships.
Jeffro
@Matt McIrvin: A fee per capita – that’s a new one – a head tax?
Because the poor and the wealthy have equally as much to lose if the country goes to hell, right?
I know they feel the need to protect their interests, but enlightened rich folks really ought to understand…if they keep being so obvious, it’ll bite them in the ass.
Ruckus
@Amir Khalid:
We called it a poll tax here not that many years ago. It seems to be making a comeback. And with the people who will end up being hurt the most think it’s far better, it’s hard to kill. We don’t study our history here that much, it lowers the amount of theft of government, and wealth by conservatives. Can’t have that.
efgoldman
@Another Scott:
As were we all, sometimes several times.
Tenar Arha
@Adam L Silverman: You too! I had an easy fast. But, I had a little of the Oneg at Temple, then I went to two fast breakings so I’m hitting the antacids now.
Matt McIrvin
@Jeffro: In Britain it was called a “poll tax”, though it wasn’t what we call a poll tax (that is, a fee for voting as a means of vote suppression), rather it was an older meaning of the word as a synonym for “head tax”.
Mnemosyne
@Roger Moore:
That’s what the supposed “masters” tell their PUA marks, but even they don’t stick to that. One of the famous PUA guys attempted suicide because his stripper girlfriend dumped him — turns out that when you use techniques designed to attract women with severe personality disorders, you end up dating women who have severe personality disorders. Such a mystery why that happens! ?
I’ll have to see if I can track down the website that deconstructed how the whole PUA “system” inevitably attracts women who have Cluster B personality disorders and turns off normal women. It was done by a guy who was heavily into that stuff, so it has some weird asides about “evolutionary psychology” and suchlike, but it was pretty insightful about PUAs and how they get that way.
efgoldman
@Millard Filmore:
For that matter, did that lower-than whale shit mine owner, Blankenship, serve a single minute in the sneezer yet?
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Nowadays you could get a cheapo Chromebook and bring that with you, though you’d probably want to set up a burner Gmail account to use Google Docs or Sheets.
efgoldman
@Tenar Arha:
We could leave all the oil and gas in the ground
rikyrah
@Spanky:
Sorry for your loss :(
khead
Jay-Z does SNL performance in faux Kaepernick jersey.
NotMax
Fresh thread! Fresh thread!
/Animal (muppet)
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: Wouldn’t have been worth it.
Every Israeli hotel, bed and breakfast, hostel, etc has several members of Israel’s intelligence and/or security services on staff or they have several members of every hotel, bed and breakfast, hostel, etc staff on their payroll. There is no such thing as a secure hotel safe in Israel. Neither the little ones in the individual rooms or the overall hotel safe in hotel’s that have those. Everything you bring in has the potential to be accessed, examined, and bugged. Everyone traveling there should act as if they were profiled prior to their arrival, are under active surveillance while their, and/or are being targeted for compromise.
efgoldman
,
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
Lower than whale shit Don Blankenship spent 1 yr in federal pen in Taft CA. And paid $250,000. For killing 29 men. I bet he didn’t sweat a moment, considering how much he was paid over the last years of his “working” life and how much of a scum sucking asshole he is.
efgoldman
@NotMax:
That sounds like my cue!
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: Done!
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Oh, I was assuming that the machine would come back bugged and compromised, but it’s cheap enough that you could discard it as soon as you got back. Though I guess that downloading or emailing the documents from the burner Gmail account would be the sticking point. ?
Gretchen
@Major Major Major Major: OMG! Her answer should be “No we don’t, because I’m outa here!” Who is so desperate for a date that they’ll sit with a man who tells them what Hllary’s book says, without having read it, to someone who has read it? Stand up and leave, girl! “I can’t date a liberal?” How about “I can’t date someone who takes a stand on a book he hasn’t read?”
Frankensteinbeck
@germy:
Hillary’s transaction tax wasn’t designed to raise a lot of money, though. It came with the assumption that transactions would radically dwindle. It was meant to make the micro transaction scam big companies use unprofitable. A much needed reform, that.
@Another Scott:
Rand was truly a deranged, even evil woman. She had the hots for a man who committed a brutal and unnecessary murder, because it was brutal and unnecessary. You see, he rejected everyone else’s morality and did what the public considers unthinkable. She thought that was amazing.
SFAW
@Spanky:
I am so sorry about your kitties. Fuck cancer.
SFAW
@Frankensteinbeck:
I was unaware that Alan Greenspan murdered anything other than the US economy. (Thanks for blessing Bush’s tax cuts, you evil motherfucker.)
But that’s why I come here, to learn new things.
SFAW
@Mnemosyne:
Unfortunately, it was painfully obvious that was there plan, starting in 2013 or 2014. (Actually, probably even earlier, but they weren’t as obvious about it then.) After November, 2012, Benghaziiiii!!!!! wasn’t about Obama, after all.
Barry
@Patricia Kayden: “Who would take them seriously if they went after a Democratic President after how gentle they’ve been to Trump?”
Each other. If you think of the elite media as courtiers and flatterers of the elites, they make more sense.