Greg Sargent’s Morning Plum has been on fire for the last two days. Today’s discusses the divisions in the Republican Party.
The Post and the Washington Examiner have remarkable stories this morning that portray the Republican Party as gripped by an internal war of recriminations over the fact that Trump has not signed any major accomplishments.
I want to try to pull out of that article the various Republican factions. They overlap, but it can be useful to figure out the main Republican tendencies. Then the Democrats can devise strategies to split the various interest groups or to try to pull over those that might be salvageable.
In the order I find them in the article:
- Religious-right extremists
- Trump followers
- “Republican establishment” – this seems to include Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan
- Committed to the fat cats – subset of “Republican establishment”
- Still believe in regular order – subset of “Republican establishment”
Sargent’s purpose in this Morning Plum is not to identify the Republican factions – that’s an idea I had. His purpose is to illustrate how lying has tripped up the Republican Party.
The fact that Trump and Republicans continue to believe a large chunk of the country (the GOP base) must be lied to relentlessly and at all costs is dispiriting on its own.
That implies that “Trump and Republicans” are distinct from “the GOP base.” Which is an interesting distinction. Sargent’s argument is that the base has come to expect certain things because Trump and Republican leadership lied to them, and now the base is turning against the liars, who continue to lie.
That disconnect is roughly my first two categories (base) against the second three, which can’t quite be called the establishment, because Trump is claiming to overthrow the establishment.
Make suggestions about other categories or anything you want. Open thread!
Lee Hartmann
Lying to the base has been a theme of Krugzilla for a long time now. chickens, roost, etc.
Corner Stone
They are not being lied to. They are being told exactly what they want to hear.
A Ghost to Most
Pure grifters?
Corner Stone
The overlap between these two is near total:
The ones that believe in “regular order”? That’s a comme see comme saw and only matters when useful.
Corner Stone
I am not sure Trump Followers actually exist. I think, like a WWE Championship Match, if someone more hateful, spiteful, vengeful, stupid, and white showed up to challenge Trump – they would dump Trump in a heartbeat.
jl
The elected officials and appointees in federal government are all so vile and untrustworthy that they are dangerous to do any business with.
Collins, McCain and Murkowski get on a very provisional list of exceptions for health care, but need to prove their worth on other issues.
I don’t particularly care about dedicated GOP voters.
A few hundred thousand voters swung the 2016 presidential election, most of whom don’t have long standing devotion to GOP. And many more independents and Democrats who didn’t show up. Worry about them first. Make a good policy and political pitch to them, and let the GOP voters who are still capable of such a feat, salvage themselves.
Put out a message worth hearing, and those you have ears to hear, let them hear.
Corner Stone
Just more racists that will fit into any of the other categories as needed.
HumboldtBlue
Is this open thread gonna have snacks?
There are never any snacks.
rikyrah
Will someone please Front page that Dolt45’s FEMA is altering the stats from Puerto Rico to make Dolt45 look better.
THAT is real.
THAT should be criminal.
This post is pure fantasy, because all factions of the GOP are SOCIOPATHS.
THE.ENTIRE.LOT.OF.THEM.
There are no factions.
HumboldtBlue
@Corner Stone:
Yup.
chris
@rikyrah: Here you go
jl
@rikyrah: I agree. Catering to them or them is a mistake. We don’t need loyal GOP voters to win elections. I think it is foolish to count much on persuading them. Their politicians are useful to attack politically to motivate people to turn out.
A Ghost to Most
@rikyrah:
I was thinking the Venn diagram would be a scribbly circle.
rikyrah
They have to follow through with their sociopathy, which to the average voter, is repulsive. When they can hide it, behind Frank Luntz approved language, they can appear to be decent. But now, their real goals are laid bare, and , it’s as phucking ugly as WE knew it to be, and tried to tell people, but….her emails.
jl
There is still value in ‘know thy enemy’ for the GOP. But that is for understanding the tricks they will pull between now and the next election. Anything else needs to be on a case by case basis.
Like some GOP Congressperson is willing to cooperate on legislation, and you have some incriminating pics or text of, for example, him urging his mistress to get an abortion so you can keep the weasel in line and make sure he actually does what he promises, OK, it might be a good bet. Otherwise, no.
Wag
I would change this to the first two and the last categories against the third and fourth.
Sloane Ranger
Other categories
White Supremicists/Racists
Ammosexuals.
Probably a lot of overlap between them.
Unless they’re both included under Thump supporters?
I agree that the base knows the Republican establishment have been lying to them. Anyone who watches Washington Journal will have picked up on this and their palpable anger, made worse by their helplessness because TINA. A good American like themselves can’t vote for those gun thieving, baby killing democrats after all! But they’re not angry at Trump. They still see him as their saviour from the Establishment.
hueyplong
Arsonists don’t govern well. Who knew?
kindness
I don’t think simple lies in order to attain/keep power bother your average Republican. Trump’s lies/lying is bothering some Republicans. Not many though. Only a handful have said anything publicly. And they aren’t Democrats. John Kaisch? He’s not on my side on 90 of 100 issues. The MSM still gives them all a pass. Where is Walter Cronchite when you need him?
VincentN
@rikyrah:
Then how did ACA repeal fail so many times in both the House and Senate? There clearly are factions. Identifying them so you can play them off each other is useful to know.
debbie
This is chaos I can get behind!
Jeffro
Two factions…pro-Trump and LOSERS
/Breitbart
Cheryl Rofer
@Sloane Ranger: I went back and forth about pulling those out, decided that Trump supporters cover them, but probably useful to note them.
Cheryl Rofer
@kindness: The lies don’t bother them, but it looks like not being able to deliver on the lies (see ACA repeal) does.
Corner Stone
Why in the fuck would Tilly Listen to anything Pence says?
Corner Stone
@kindness: Kasich needs to be fitted for some new shoes. Concrete ones, not crocs.
Corner Stone
Are we in the Seven Days In May scenario?
Raoul
OT (ish)
Our dear leader is once again threatening darkly, obscurely, and (let’s hope) when he says “you’ll find out” it usually means nothing. What a madhouse, nonetheless.
NorthLeft12
I don’t understand why or how you can say that the Republican base is turning against the liars. As far as I can see from polling results, they are around the same level of support in their base as they always were/are. Yes the base is frothing mad at whomever, but that does not stop them from voting for the same douchecanoes who not only lie to them [the least of their sins] but sell them out on a regular basis for the benefit of their real employers.
kindness
@Cheryl Rofer: Well yea because every bill they offered up was horrible for everyone’s healthcare and only good at giving rich people tax cuts. They couldn’t hide it in any of them. Now they are doing the same thing with ‘Tax Reform’. It’s a huge windfall for the rich and it isn’t being hidden at all.
Republicans have a weakness they’ve thought was a strength. For so long they wouldn’t consider anything that needed outside (Democrats) help passing. They went on their own and the crazy faction eventually hijacked the program. If there were still a group of moderate Republicans that made centrist laws those would be passed. The crazies that control them act like Democrats have cooties. We have the numbers. We just have to find a way to get people to vote.
Bobby Thomson
That column doesn’t make a lot of sense. A handful of Republican Senators have a lot of power – that’s not factionalism. And no trends should be interpreted from a sample of one, especially when that data point is Alabama, which was overjoyed to vote for Roy Moore regardless of any opportunistic “anti-establishment” rhetoric..
Raoul
@kindness: Where is Walter Cronkite when you need him?
Apparently that torch has been passed to Jimmy Kimmel.
Raoul
@Corner Stone: Why in the fuck would Tilly listen to anything Pence says?
Because then the putsch comes, the bet (a little shaky, but the current bet) is that Pence will be president.
Steve in the ATL
@A Ghost to Most: in the Venn diagram, all those scribbly circles with their various overlapping are inside of a giant circle labeled “Assholes”
Corner Stone
@Raoul: Pence is a deadman if that wild shit ever happens.
oatler.
@Raoul: As long as we ignore everything else his network
does.
NotMax
Time was there were “country club Republicans.”
Nowadays they have excised the “o.”
Shalimar
@Corner Stone: Pence will be the replacement leader once they get rid of the leader none of them like working for personally. He is the logical person to reassure cabinet members that it will be better in 6 months.
Shalimar
@Corner Stone: The only people who have the potential power to force Trump out clearly don’t think so. Pence is the one whipping them up behind the scenes.
Edit: I agree with you. I think Pence goes down with Trump. But Kelly, Tillerson and the others clearly don’t see that danger.
Patricia Kayden
@Corner Stone: And if you tell them the truth, they reject it if it doesn’t fit into their “facts”. Trump has been called out on his numerous lies many times and yet you still have his dimwitted followers claiming that he’s honest. Arghhhhh!!“
The Simp in the Suit
I don’t know, Cheryl, I’m just not that sensitive of a guy. You seem to be drawing distinctions between shit sandwiches made with Wonder Bread, shit sandwiches made with rye bread, shit sandwiches made with artisanal whole wheat bread, and shit sandwiches made with gluten-free bread.
I just see shit sandwiches made by shitty people.
BruceFromOhio
I picture some crazy Mack Sennett scene where the firemen drive around madly in a firetruck, nearly colliding with a train, never putting out anything, causing more harm than good. If only the rest of us weren’t getting run over, it would be a funny ‘Republicans in disarray’ short.
Raoul
@Corner Stone: Putsch was too strong, I shouldn’t be cute with real terms like that. I was thinking Mueller taking Trump down. Which is why I also said, parenthetically, that the Pence bet is shaky. He’s implicated. I can’t see how he isn’t.
But far too many in the GOP seem blind.
Corner Stone
@Shalimar: Pence is a deadman if this comes down to a coup. They don’t need his bland chicken cream soup face or personality to reassure anyone. He has a legitimate claim to authority. they will not be propping up a Pence Junta.
Raoul
@oatler.: As long as we ignore everything else his network does.
And I do ignore it.
All of it, Katie.
Peale
I think the key will be to dispirit the religious right. That’s where the voter mobilization of the party is. You do that by making the topic of discussion economic. Anything to piss them off at the GOP representives the better. The Kochs have tried to build a counter organization to get around their control, but I don’t think it’s there yet.
2004, 2006 and 2008 were voter mobilization elections in big ways for the Dems. 9 million more voters showed up to vote for Kerry for Gore. Unfortunately 12 million more showed up to vote for Bush. That was the zenith of religious right voter mobilization. If we’re going to take back some control, we’re going to have to find those voters who came out in 2004, 06 and 08 but who sat out elections since then. We can not afford to be outflanked like we were in 2004. I’d rather have the zealots on the sidelines.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: He went up to the balcony of the VP’s residence, faced Foggy Bottom, and made his face of resolve to let Tillerson know just how serious he was about having him fix things.
The face of resolve is also the face he makes when Mother puts too many prunes and too much saltpeter in his food…
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: Violations of Federal records law. The Inspectors General are going to be exhausted by the time this administration is over.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: But prunes *and* saltpeter together…My God. We’re doomed.
Caphilldcne
After reading “dark money” I think a surprising number of the donor classes are basically part of the John bircher faction. The half trillion dollars they’ve donated to the cause has bought its way into respectability directly aided by the internet’s ability to connect to link up small clandestine groups. They’ve always been there but are now way more organized and have been given a nice establishment cover. Battles we thought were fought and won have reemerged and we’re back arguing first principles. I’m especially concerned because the conservatives have a 30-40 year edge in this debate and liberals are now having to reargue what the principles are.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: You want him irregular and on the prowl?
J R in WV
@kindness:
“Where is Walter Cronchite when you need him?”
Still dead, alas!
trnc
Based on what we’ve seen lately, this subset will cease to exist with the retirement of the senior senator from Az.
Villago Delenda Est
@Corner Stone: The “Religious Right” got its start in the wake of Jimmy Carter’s laying down the law about “Christian Academies” in the South designed solely to get the snowflake babies of racists away from those evil black children. The “Moral Majority” was racist from the very start, and it’s why they’re a part of Donald’s deplorables. They adopted abortion as an issue as camouflage for their true motivation, segregation and white supremacism.
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est:
And to be able to make common cause with Catholics, especially more conservative ones still upset over Vatican II, which allowed them to extend the size of their movement and claim it had ecumenical appeal.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@HumboldtBlue:
You got the munchies? ;-)
Ksmiami
@jl: I just start from a baseline that to be a Republican today means you are a bad person… then I work backwards
p.a.
Anecdote =\= data, but most of the rethugs I know truly believe the lies, don’t recognize they are lies. We have always been at war with East Asia. Fox ‘news’, hate radio et al have done their job well. Now is reality starting to crack the wall? What % are the true believers? 27%? More?
schrodingers_cat
@Adam L Silverman: WP eated my comment and marked it as spam when I tried to edit it. Please help!
pattonbt
They have 4 “real” planks. One, massive tax cuts for the wealthy. Two, penis enlargement military spending overcompensation. Three, gut all social safety net funding. Four, hate and oppress hippies and “the other”. Problem is it’s a great platform for shouting in opposition but horrid in majority and actual policy. Who’s surprised a party only built for opposition can’t actually govern?
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Cheryl Rofer: No point separating out racists. That would be: all of ’em, Katie…
randy khan
Apropos of this topic, I said this on LGM just yesterday (slightly edited because of different context):
FlipYrWhig
@pattonbt: That’s two planks, really: cut “welfare” and kick ass. Or, for that matter, one plank, “brown sucks.”
Chris
@Caphilldcne:
Haven’t read “Dark Money” yet. One of my theories about the rich (or at least a certain class of rich people, the conservative/libertarian ideologue kind) is that they see the New Deal and subsequent glory days of the American middle class as the greatest mugging in history. FDR and his mob of union thugs put a gun to their (or their parents or grandparents’) heads and stole all their money by threatening violent revolution if they didn’t pay up. And when they look at the 1950s-and-after middle class suburbia, they don’t see a healthy and wealthy functioning society; they see gangsters living high off of money they stole from the people who worked hard to earn it. Hence why they’re happy to crash the country, or at least this version of it.
This is also why the “but you need to have a welfare state to prevent violent revolution” argument falls flat with them. To them, what that means is that the welfare state is a protection racket, and the tax money they pay is extortion taken from them by the threat of violence. If that’s the way things are, then it’s better to pay a police force to stand between the violent mob and civilization, than to pay the protection racket – it’s a question of principle, you see.