Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

T R E 4 5 O N

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

That meeting sounds like a shotgun wedding between a shitshow and a clusterfuck.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

American history and black history cannot be separated.

President Musk and Trump are both poorly raised, coddled 8 year old boys.

Celebrate the fucking wins.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

If you’re gonna whine, it’s time to resign!

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

How stupid are these people?

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

They punch you in the face and then start crying because their fist hurts.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

I don’t recall signing up for living in a dystopian sci-fi novel.

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

’Where will you hide, Roberts, the laws all being flat?’

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

Consistently wrong since 2002

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Poo-Tee-Weet (Open Thread)

Poo-Tee-Weet (Open Thread)

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“It is so short and jumbled and jangled, Sam, because there is nothing intelligent to say about a massacre. Everybody is supposed to be dead, to never say anything or want anything ever again. Everything is supposed to be very quiet after a massacre, and it always is, except for the birds. And what do the birds say? All there is to say about a massacre, things like ‘Poo-tee-weet?'”

— Kurt Vonnegut Jr., Slaughterhouse Five

Reader Interactions

190Comments

  5. 5.

    Betty Cracker

    @Princess: Weird coincidence, what with the roundup of princes yesterday.

  6. 6.

    Mary G

    Just saw a picture on Twitter of Trump and Abe in Japan eating cheeseburgers and drinking what I assume is Diet Coke. My face and hand are going to need surgery, I’ve been doing so much facepalming.

  9. 9.

    Betty Cracker

    @Mary G: The only pictures of Trump I like are the ones where he’s stuffing unhealthy foods into his face. They give me hope. I hope he gets wind of the Papa John’s pizza thing and scarfs down whole XXL meat-lover’s deluxe pizza with extra cheese and double meat.

  13. 13.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    I still get emails from temp agencies looking for people. I just got one for a business analyst position that highlights the total disconnect employers have with reality. The posting describes the job as:

    “Looking for entry level candidate”

    Farther down, after some heavy jargon, you find:

    “Experience
    • 1-3 years in process or operational reporting
    • 2-4 years Enterprise Data Warehouse experience, Business Objects, Deski, or similar systems experience
    • 2-4 years of Tableau experience as a desktop author
    • 3-5 years of experience leveraging Microsoft Excel”

    You’re either looking for an entry level candidate, or you’re looking for someone with experience. Perhaps there exists a Schrödinger’s candidate that is both, but quantum physics tells us that as soon as you interview them, the wave probability will collapse and you’ll be left with one or the other. And, because I’m not looking for a job right now and don’t worry about alienating some temp service drone, I replied to the email with the original post. The answer I got was:

    The client would consider academic experience.
    “Action is the Foundation key to all Success”

    I’m not sure what that had to do with my question.

  17. 17.

    Another Scott

    Nice mockingbird (I think) shot.

    Yeah, there’s not much more that can be said.

    We need to force Congress to act – much more needs to be done.

    Part of it is understanding who makes the guns (from 2016):

    With this investigation, Mother Jones set out to break through the opacity surrounding the $8 billion firearms industry and the men who control it. While the three largest companies disclose some financials, the rest are privately held. Some are further shrouded by private-equity funds or shell corporations based in overseas tax havens. We mined manufacturing data and import statistics from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). We also examined obscure press clippings, court documents, private industry reports, and tax records from the Treasury Department. Together, the 10 companies we investigated produce more than 8 million firearms per year for buyers in the United States, accounting for more than two-thirds of the total market. (None of the companies responded to our requests for further information.)

    Many of these companies’ top executives have donned the jacket bestowed to members of the Golden Ring of Freedom, an exclusive club for $1 million-plus donors to the National Rifle Association. Several have been the focus of criminal investigations and lawsuits over everything from arms trafficking and fraud to armed robbery and racketeering.

    As the debate over gun laws has grown louder, sales have soared. In the year following the massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, the three largest gunmakers—Sturm Ruger, Remington Outdoor, and Smith & Wesson—netted more than $390 million in profits on record sales. Shares in publicly traded Sturm Ruger and Smith & Wesson jumped more than 70 percent that year, benefiting institutional investors such as Vanguard, Blackrock, and Fidelity. The hedge fund that owns Remington Outdoor—maker of the assault rifle used in Newtown—saw the annual return on its investment grow tenfold.

    And the picture looks no different today, on the heels of the deadliest mass shooting in modern US history. President Barack Obama once again mournfully addressed the nation after the massacre in Orlando—which was carried out with a Sig Sauer assault rifle designed for US special operations forces, the civilian sales of which have helped make Sig Sauer the fifth largest producer of firearms for the US market. In what has become a typical pattern after gun massacres, the stock prices of publicly traded Sturm Ruger and Smith & Wesson on Monday both jumped more than 6 percent (on a day when all the broader market averages dropped).

    The upshot is that even as gun ownership has declined from approximately half to one-third of American households, those who do own guns are stockpiling them in record numbers. As the head of one investment firm put it, “Mr. Obama is the best gun salesman on the planet.”

    These companies, and their investors, understand money.

    Do you own part of a gun company?. In my case, yes, via some S&P500 index funds we own. Grrr….

    It won’t be easy, but neither was helping to end apartheid in South Africa…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  19. 19.

    Juju

    @Mary G: A while ago you mentioned a marajuana based drug you took for chronic pain. At the time I thought it might be something that might work for my mother and her back pain. Now that my mom is willing to try it, I can’t remember what it was called or where to get it. I should have bookmarked. Can you refresh my memory?

  26. 26.

    Feathers

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: So then they claim they can’t find anyone with those qualifications in the US, so they hire an H1B. I’m pro-immigrant, we should have more of them, but H1B is corrupt as fuck, and exists to allow companies to continue their racist, misogynistic, anti-family, and push out anyone who dares to grow old(Ish).

    Although business analyst may not be something that gets H1Bed. Talking with a friend about the insurance company where she works, she says no one she works with would get hired now, the only want people with either healthcare or insurance analyst experience and schooling.

  27. 27.

    RepubAnon

    Have InfoWars, Drudge, and/or Breitbart started blaming this on a false flag operation by the antifas yet?
    Or ISIS/Daesh? Not to mention speculating about Hillary”s involvement…
    If they haven’t already done so, they will soon – it’s only a matter of time.

  28. 28.

    Mnemosyne

    I finally broke down and hauled my old heavy-duty knee brace out of the closet. I keep getting nervous that my knee is a little unstable, and this will relieve my mind more than an over the counter brace.

  29. 29.

    Roger Moore

    @hilts:

    The Guardian has a nice roundup of Trump appointees with links to tax havens.

    I think you could shorten the list to “All of them, Katie”.

  30. 30.

    Immanentize

    @RepubAnon:
    It seems like it is another disgruntled white guy who just loved loved loved children — but not his mother in law.

    You know, economic anxiety.

  31. 31.

    raven

    @Immanentize: Devin Kelly, USAF Vet

    The shooter was “now ID’d by authorities; white male in his 20s from outside San Antonio,” reported Mike Levine, a journalist for ABC News. “Authorities are now scrubbing his social media; on Facebook in recent days, he showed off an AR-15 style-looking gun.” After opening fire inside the church, reports say, the gunman took off in a vehicle. Not soon after the shooting, though, he was also reported to be dead.

    Kelley’s Facebook page has now been deleted. His profile picture showed two small children. According to The Daily Beast, “Kelley was married and Kelley’s mother-in-law listed a P.O. box in Sutherland Springs as a mailing address. San Antonio police reportedly raided Kelley’s home on Sunday evening…he briefly taught at a summer Bible school.”

    His LinkedIn page says that he was a VBS “teacher aid (sic)” for “VBS AT KINGSVILLE FBC” and notes, “Dates volunteered Jun 2013 – Jun 2013 Volunteer duration 1 mo. Cause Children. Teaching children ages 4-6 at vocational bible schools helping their minds grow and prosper.” However, multiple children are reportedly among those shot in the church.

  32. 32.

    Immanentize

    @raven: I asked on the last thread -; I wonder who pulled down his FB page if he died.

    ETA Kingsville is still pretty active. They closed Kelly AFB in San Antonio in the ’90’s and I think they moved some of their missions to Kingsville

  33. 33.

    J R in WV

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Yeah, we were looking for Javascript guys when that was pretty new, we (not I) taught a lot of sharp folks about web development. I love the requirement for 4 years experience in the technology developed last year too, everyone’s favorite!

    We put the whole state agency on web systems eventually, and people complained that it was done without an outside consultant… which would have had less experience than we had. And known nothing about the actual internal requirements, which we had 20 years in.

  38. 38.

    Mary G

    @Juju: It’s called CBD oil, distilled from marijuana but without any of the fun “getting high or hungry” effects, but it works a lot better than opioids or regular marijuana for my RA pain. I get mine from a dispensary that markets to seniors based here in California where medical marijuana is legal. Here is a chart from them about what it’s said to be good for.

    ETA: It’s not a storefront type of dispensary. They deliver to me at home. I was worried the first time, but the guy looks like an insurance salesman.

  39. 39.

    Thoughtful David

    @Another Scott: Yes, a Northern Mockingbird, but without its tail. Dunno why it doesn’t have a tail–it happens. Makes birds look weird, though, to have no tail.

  41. 41.

    Another Scott

    @Mnemosyne: I’ve probably mentioned this before, but I used to have trouble with my right knee on hikes over a week or so. Searing pain, locking up, etc., especially going downhill after a day or so. I eventually figured out that it was too tight. Using a leg press to stretch out my knees straight (pointing toes and heels) – gently! and building up over time – and doing it a few days before the vacation eliminated the problem.

    We get stiffer as we get older. Stretching can do wonders.

    Just something to maybe try, if you’ve tried everything else.

    Good luck!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  42. 42.

    Ohio Mom

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: I seem to remember Ohio Dad once being sent a job announcement asking for more years of experience in a computer language than that particular language had existed for.
    ETA: I see Mx4 has gotten there first.

  45. 45.

    AMinNC

    @Juju: Hi Juju, I’ve used Saving Grace CBD oil (you can search for them on Facebook or Google) and it comes in different concentration strengths, so you can tailor dosage for what your mom needs. CBD oil is legal in all 50 states, because it isn’t psychoactive. Good luck – chronic pain is just horrible.

  46. 46.

    Mnemosyne

    @Another Scott:

    I managed to fall on the stairs a couple of weeks ago and sprain the damn thing — I’m still on crutches (though more for balance right now). So I need to wait for a bit before I get ambitious with stretching. ?

  48. 48.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @Major Major Major Major: Gotta agree. My personal favourite is probably The Sirens of Titan (it’s probably as close to summing up my worldview as any novel anyone has ever written), and I think Cat’s Cradle is his most successful work from an artistic standpoint. Slaughterhouse-Five is probably his most important work, though, and I’m not sure anyone has ever depicted PTSD more successfully.

    If Slaughterhouse-Five has any flaws, the biggest would have to be that the subtlety of Vonnegut’s message led it to be frequently misinterpreted. It’s often interpreted as being a tract against free will, because most people interpret Billy Pilgrim’s narration as representing Vonnegut’s viewpoint. There are several reasons to suspect this isn’t accurate, though. First, the opening chapter includes a statement to the effect that writing an anti-war novel is as useful as writing an anti-glacier novel, with the fatalistic implication that neither would change anything. Despite this, Vonnegut still wrote his anti-war novel. Secondly, the Tralfamadorians are the main purveyors of the novel’s fatalistic sentiments. Vonnegut mentions offhand that they end up destroying the universev through their negligence, suggesting that he doesn’t think highly of their worldview. Thirdly, if we take Billy’s account of his death at face value, he does just about everything possible to ensure it happens, despite knowing the exact consequences of doing so.

    I’m personally of the interpretation that all the aliens and time travel and other science-fiction elements are all in Billy’s mind; they’re his coping mechanism for PTSD. But one of the beauties of the novel is that it’s open to multiple interpretations. Another of Vonnegut’s stories, “Harrison Bergeron”, is also often misinterpreted due to Vonnegut’s subtle irony, as is another of my favourite novels, Philip K. Dick’s Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? (which is also not helped by people unfamiliar with Dick’s style and worldview coming to it through Blade Runner).

    Other essential Vonnegut works include Mother Night and Breakfast of Champions, with Jailbird also being pretty great.

  49. 49.

    J R in WV

    Major^4 said Slaughterhouse Five was the “the absolute perfect distillation of PTSD.”

    IIRC Vonnegut was a WW II POW in Dresden when that city was firebombed out of existence, which could give you some PTSD. Sheer luck that he survived at all. And then to be there in the aftermath.

  50. 50.

    Ohio Mom

    I did eight loads of laundry this weekend — that includes the bath mats and the white canvas slip covers from the family room. I am trying to get the whole house clean at once, and it isn’t even all that big a house. But I am easily distracted and that slows things down.

  52. 52.

    mike in dc

    The only value in mass shootings in open-carry and gun-friendly states is that the put the lie to the “good guy with a gun” argument. No civvie with a handgun is likely to be highly effective in stopping a determined shooter with a long gun, who may also be wearing body armor. How many parishioners are going to be carrying in church? Even when they do pull a gun, it’s just as likely to make things worse–missed shots can hit other people, and the cops have a harder time figuring out what’s going on and identifying the mass shooter.

  54. 54.

    Major Major Major Major

    @J R in WV:

    IIRC Vonnegut was a WW II POW in Dresden when that city was firebombed out of existence, which could give you some PTSD. Sheer luck that he survived at all. And then to be there in the aftermath.

    He had, in fact, survived the bombing by hiding in the cellar of a slaughterhouse.

  59. 59.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @mike in dc: IIRC police said that the presence of other armed bystanders during one of the recent shootings made it harder for them to intervene because they didn’t know who the “bad guy” was. The fact that there have been so many recent mass shootings that I’m not entirely sure which one this was depresses the fuck out of me, though I think it was one of the Wal-Mart ones.

  68. 68.

    mouse tolliver

    Some jerkwad on MSNBC was just normalizing Trump by calling him the “comforter in chief” and saying it must pain Trump that he has to be a half a world away. A few seconds before Trump read his canned statement the feed showed him laughing and joking with the people in the room. They cut away because of a technical problem, and when they went back to Trump he was laughing again and bragging about Ivanka.

    Nothing about this man is normal. He would fail a Voight-Kampff test.

  69. 69.

    Matt McIrvin

    @(((CassandraLeo))):

    First, the opening chapter includes a statement to the effect that writing an anti-war novel is as useful as writing an anti-glacier novel, with the fatalistic implication that neither would change anything.

    Well, maybe so, but hot damn, we’ve got the problem of glaciers solved now! Suck it, glaciers!

  71. 71.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @mouse tolliver: I’ve suggested before that we should subject public officials to the Voight-Kampff test before allowing them to take office. I’m still not sure if I’m joking.

    @Matt McIrvin: I’ve thought of that the last few times I’ve read the novel/brought up that line. “Enjoy that metaphor, by the way, because your grandkids will have no idea what a glacier is.” -Stephen Colbert. It is to weep.

    @opiejeanne: Evidently there are several dozen shootings every year at Wal-Marts alone.

  72. 72.

    Major Major Major Major

    @chris: I liked the comic they did of how to rescue a princess from a castle in different languages. Go’s was “Oh, go doesn’t support rescuing princesses, but we have these rescued princesses in the standard library.” which I thought was great.

  82. 82.

    Immanentize

    @opiejeanne:
    Not surprised. The non-Souther synod churches in TX are usually just non-denominational. But there is a big fight between Lutherans!

  84. 84.

    JGabriel

    NYTimes:

    Since his political commentary was published in The Los Angeles Times on Wednesday, David Horsey says he has heard from a number of angry people.

    They have chastised Mr. Horsey, a two-time winner of the Pulitzer Prize for editorial cartooning, mostly for describing President Trump’s press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, as a “slightly chunky soccer mom” in The Times.

    That’s outrageous. I mean, seriously, what have soccer moms ever done that was foul enough to merit comparison to Sarah Huckabee Sanders?

  85. 85.

    japa21

    @mike in dc: Let’s say a person at the church was armed and was able to take out the shooter. The Right would be crowing about it. At the same time, there would probably still be several dead people shot prior to the armed church person doing anything. Apparently the first dozen or so lives don’t matter.

    And that is the idiocy of the “only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun” argument.

  87. 87.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Matt McIrvin: I was waiting to find someone who had made a Pooty-poot-poot reference.

    As for that fucking moron on MSNBC calling cheeto-face the “comforter-in-chief”, need the name for the tumbrel manifest.

  90. 90.

    Yarrow

    @japa21: According to the DPS spokesman, a neighbor heard the shooting, got his rifle, returned fire with the suspect, then chased the suspect who drove into a ditch. The DPS spokesman says it’s safe to say the neighbor saved lives.

    Very powerful story about how an armed neighbor who stepped up could have saved several lives. pic.twitter.com/Bc0pTyb3Fu— Max Massey (@MaxMasseyTV) November 6, 2017

    I expect this guy will be praised as the “good guy with a gun.”

  93. 93.

    Honus

    @(((CassandraLeo))): that’s the name of the novel. His German captors tell him if he gets lost he should say he needs to return to “schlactauf fuenf” – German for slaughterhouse five.

  95. 95.

    Baud

    CNN

    According to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll, 59% disapprove of Trump’s handling of the presidency — the worst of any president at nine months in office since modern polling began. Of those who disapprove, 50% say they do so strongly. Only 37% of those polled approve of Trump’s performance in office.

  96. 96.

    hilts

    @mouse tolliver:

    Some jerkwad on MSNBC was just normalizing Trump by calling him the “comforter in chief”

    These clowns fall for it every fucking time. Trumpenstein is an unadulterated monstrosity and his goddamn house of cards kleptocracy will hopefully fall after the 2018 midterms.

  99. 99.

    opiejeanne

    @Immanentize: Some of the Lutherans are nutty Fundies, their synod is. I can’t remember which synod, maybe it’s Missouri. I was not aware of them until a few years ago when one was in a ceramics class with me. Couldn’t afford to buy a house because his only child had to be in their school so she wasn’t corrupted by the wicked wicked world. Then he tried to pick up my daughter, not realizing she was my kid. Ugh He was in his 40s, married, holier than everyone there.

    I was being treated for Hep C, was pretty sick with the treatments, and she and I decided to take the class to move the focus away from the misery of the drugs.

  101. 101.

    raven

    Martin said a local resident engaged the suspect in gunfire as he left the church. The suspect then left the scene in a vehicle, where he was later found dead in Guadalupe County, according to the sheriff’s office. Multiple weapons were found in his vehicle.

  103. 103.

    Citizen_X

    @Yarrow: @raven: As discussed above, this did not do, and would not have done, anything about the massacre inside the church. So forgive me for not cheering about “saving lives” after more than two dozen people were slaughtered.

  105. 105.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @opiejeanne:

    Some of the Lutherans are nutty Fundies, their synod is. I can’t remember which synod, maybe it’s Missouri.

    Missouri synod are around-the-bend nutters, but at least they can still see the bend, which cannot be said for the Wisconsin synod. Pretty much any American Lutherans outside of the ELCA should be approached with extreme caution, and you probably shouldn’t even get off the bus.

  109. 109.

    Honus

    The tree of liberty must periodically be watered with blood of children attending kindergarten or church.

  110. 110.

    opiejeanne

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: I had an online friend who taught at an ELCA school and belonged to their congregation, which was strange to me because she was a flaming liberal but I think it was probably habit, the church she was raised in. We had an interesting conversation when the ELCA bishop got to weight in on birth control but no women were on the panel. She was torn between pride of her church being represented and despair at what they supported. Her own pastor was much more rational than the bishop was. She would be about 38 now but she died of cancer just about the same time Green not green died. I lost another friend two days later, one I knew in RL. It was a rough month.

    Is there a Lutheran branch that is still mainstream? Because none of those three are.

  114. 114.

    Ruckus

    @opiejeanne:
    I’d ask that question from a different angle.
    Is there a church that isn’t mainstream? Because most churches seem to me to be on the wrong side of a majority of issues for the health and welfare of their congregation, let alone humanity.

  116. 116.

    lgerard

    @Honus:

    Valerie Perrine at her Best

    i haven’t thought of her in years. I used to think about her quite a bit when I was a teenager

  117. 117.

    D58826

    Saw this on twitter so not sure if its a joke but since it is Der Fuhrer…. He told the Japanese that it would make much more sense to build their cars in the US rather than shipping them across the Pacific.

  118. 118.

    Honus

    @lgerard: in my 20s I had a picture of her taped inside my carpenter’s toolbox. We called the toolbox Valerie Perrine, respectfully and not luridly, because it was an honor to have Montana Wildhack and Honey Bruce on our job.

  119. 119.

    Honus

    @D58826: I guess he didn’t realize they already do. And mostly in coal country.
    I may be mistaken but I thought I read a few years ago that the Japanese build more cars in the US now than GM.

  120. 120.

    JMG

    @D58826: Not a joke. Nor will it be a joke when Trump finds out the reality and takes credit for something that’s been going on for 30 years.

  122. 122.

    chris

    @opiejeanne:

    And now the trolls are blaming Democrats for almost every mass shooting.

    They’re trying to blame antifa for this one. Caroline O. shows the full court press. Thread.

  124. 124.

    Cheryl Rofer

    How did Trump make such a big mistake about Japanese car manufacturing?

    He has staff to help him write speeches. What did they tell him? What research did they offer him?

    I would really like to know more about how that process played out for this speech.

  125. 125.

    Ruckus

    @JMG:
    Or that the Japanese are not the only offshore companies that build cars here. MB, BMW, VW do as well. You think that drumpf might have a clue? I don’t. And I also don’t think he has enough to buy a clue or if he did buy one, what to do with it.

  126. 126.

    LanceThruster

    “Be aware of this truth that the people on this earth could be joyous, if only they would live rationally and if they would contribute mutually to each others’ welfare.

    This world is not a vale of sorrows if you will recognize discriminatingly what is truly excellent in it; and if you will avail yourself of it for mutual happiness and well-being. Therefore, let us explain as often as possible, and particularly at the departure of life, that we base our faith on firm foundations, on Truth for putting into action our ideas which do not depend on fables and ideas which Science has long ago proven to be false.”

    ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr., Palm Sunday: An Autobiographical Collage

  129. 129.

    Ruckus

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    His speech writers? Are they much smarter than he is? Do you think Miller knows? I’d bet they still think leaches and cod liver oil are used in every day medicine.

  130. 130.

    John Revolta

    @Cheryl Rofer: This is the guy who said they could get their samurai warriors to shoot down missiles, for Chrissake. I’m waiting for him to start making transistor radio jokes.

  132. 132.

    Ruckus

    @John Revolta:
    I wonder if he thinks he’s being funny or if his mind is just going, going……
    I’m on the going, going, going train, think it’s gathering speed and will leave the track in the not too distant future.

  133. 133.

    Jeffro

    @lgerard: I just saw that too…I’m thinking baseball bat, had to be

    Then again, I’m always thinking “baseball bat” these days…

  135. 135.

    Corner Stone

    @Jeffro: I’m thinking he should personally be on the hook for all medical services and charges. As much healthcare as he can afford.

  137. 137.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Honus: Um, to be precise, Schlachthof-Fünf is the German for “Slaughterhouse-Five.”

    Here’s something pathetic for you: I was in Dresden (for the 2nd time) a few years ago & decided to try & track down the slaughterhouse where young POW Kurt Vonnegut was working during the firebombing. I went to the tourist office & asked. I got blank stares. No one there had ever heard of Vonnegut, much less the novel.

    @(((CassandraLeo))): FTR when it first came out I reviewed Jailbird for a formerly-great-but-now-unfit-for-fishwrap metropolitan newspaper, & I believe I was one of the very few (& perhaps the first!) to note in print that the novel’s ur-text is Dante’s Purgatorio. So there.

  141. 141.

    Suzanne

    So in addition to Spawn being in the ED still because there is still not an adolescent behavioral health bed anywhere in Phoenix, and her hamster died, and the shooting…..I found out today that a friend of mine from college passed away this morning. She had been paralyzed from the waist down in a car wreck years ago, and had health problems off and on. She was just one of the coolest, funniest people I’ve ever met. A force of nature.

  143. 143.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @Suzanne: That’s horrible. My condolences. I hope things get better for you & your family.

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    formerly-great-but-now-unfit-for-fishwrap metropolitan newspaper

    New York Post? Just at a guess.

    Anyway, that’s cool about your having noted the novel’s ur-text. Not so much about people not knowing who Vonnegut was.

  145. 145.

    Petorado

    I think it’s time to rebut pro-NRA politicians by telling them that their thoughts and prayers cannot be with the victims when their votes are always with the shooter. So tired of that damn trivial line mouthed by craven elected officials.

  149. 149.

    dmsilev

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Unless he’s out for a month or more, won’t matter. There’s not actual legislative text yet, and the House is at least making pro forma attempts to go though the committee process while they try to twist enough arms to be able to get it past the floor vote. It’s not going to the Senate for a while yet, and the Senate vote will be a while after that. Assuming, of course, that Paul Ryan can actually pass it through the House.

  152. 152.

    Planetjanet

    Another day of canvassing in Virginia. Tom Perez came to the kickoff for my local House of Delegates candidate, Hala Ayala. He told a story about Albert Einstein’s letters to his son. One talked about how dark life in America had become. This was during the McCarthy era. He said he had fled Europe to get away from that menace.
    The next was a year later after McCarthy was defeated. Now he talked of how great America is. It has a gyroscope that rights itself when it needs to. Perez said we were the gyroscope. Time to leave everything on the field.

  153. 153.

    lamh36

    Great time at a local hibachi restaurant. It was my 3 of sisters. My nephew (his birthday was Thursday), my cousin & his family along with Maddie, Zoe and Noah. Zoe was not even bothered by the flames…the smoke was most bothersome to her. Maddie was more bothered by the flames than Zoe…LOL
    twitter.com/psddluva4evah/status/927365048800088065

    #GodBabyMaddie made me personalized birthday card with her and my name…and she signed my birthday card from her and her mom(my auntie)

    twitter.com/psddluva4evah/status/927366934735224832

  154. 154.

    lamh36

    @lamh36:Most of my birthday is almost done. Before I forget, I want to say THANK YOU to each and every person who wished me Happy Birthday! It was a nice lazy day followed by a nice meal and time with the family…just how I like it! Here’s hoping my 41st year is as good as the 40 years before!

    Thank you

  155. 155.

    Honus

    @Petorado: that’s very good. I’m more crude. Today I was thinking that I want a t-shirt that says “fuck your thoughts and prayers”

  157. 157.

    LanceThruster

    @Honus:

    “Still and all, why bother? Here’s my answer. Many people need desperately to receive this message: I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.”

    — Kurt Vonnegut

  158. 158.

    trollhattan

    So Texas AG chimes in the bestest way to prevent these shootings is for moar Texans to have concealed carry permits.

    We are surprised.

  160. 160.

    Pete Downunder

    @lamh36: happy birthday. I hear you’re coming to Australia. If you can contact a front pager to give you my email I’ll send you some useful notes on Australia.

  162. 162.

    Lizzy L

    I just posted this on my FB page.

    Don’t tell me that your thoughts and prayers are with the people in this country who are killed by other people with guns unless you are also willing to find a way to make possession of those guns less wanton.

    Wanton=degenerate, corrupt, malicious, spiteful, cruel.

    Shootings with multiple victims are awful. But equally awful are the deaths that happen one at a time, people shot by strangers, shot by family members, shot by mistake, shot by a child, shot because someone is drunk, shot by their own hands. They don’t always die. Sometimes they are maimed, paralyzed, crippled. Blaming those deaths and those wounds on “mental health issues” is pure bullshit. Bill O’Reilly said that all those dead and wounded people are just the “price” of freedom. Spoken by a man who is sure that neither he nor anyone he loves will ever, EVER have to pay that price.

    Damn right I’m angry.

  165. 165.

    lamh36

    @Pete Downunder: thank you. Yep. I’ve got roundtrip flights booked to Melbourne for next May…the end of the month. If Adam or Anne are reading this…they can forward it to my hotmail account and I’ll get it.

    Right now, I’m in the have some professional things going on, but that should all be done by the end of the year. So right now, I’ll just be gathering information to look through and read and plan starting in January.

  168. 168.

    Zelma

    @opiejeanne:

    Re the Lutherans, the ELCA is pretty liberal on both social and political issues these days. The Presiding Bishop is a woman. My local (NJ) bishop is a woman. And my pastor is a woman. They’re good on gays in the ministry and gay marriage and choice. They have an extremely active social ministry (Lutheran Social Services is second only to Catholic Social Services in size I think), their disaster relief work is stellar. And Lutheran World Relief is both respected and effective. But the denomination is also very much congregation-centered, so there can be lots of variation at the local level. And being Lutherans, we don’t do a very good job at getting out there and making noise. Now the Missouri and Wisconsin Synod Lutherans are a very different breed. Think fundamentalist with a German accent.

  170. 170.

    glaukopis

    Got my and my adopted pooch’s tickets to Dayton for Tuesday and am so looking forward to going home. Only have a few loose ends to deal with tomorrow in California, principally hiring an attorney, and at least the main things will be done.

  172. 172.

    JCJ

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    I went to the tourist office & asked. I got blank stares. No one there had ever heard of Vonnegut, much less the novel.

    not sure if this entirely true – I bought a copy of the book auf deutsch in a museum gift shop in Dresden

  173. 173.

    Xenos

    When I read Slaughterhouse 5 in my teens I thought it was trippy. In my twenties I read it again and found it to by sneakily profound.

    Read it again in my late 40s and could not stop crying. Having kids the age of Billy Pilgrim at the beginning of the novel changed the experience of reading it completely.

  174. 174.

    Ruckus

    @Ohio Mom:
    Unitarians would be my guess.
    But I’ve opted out of the entire concept because in my mind it’s a fairy story, and not a good one, and so much of history has been made worse by religions. YMMV.

  175. 175.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @danielx: I wouldn’t be surprised if the russian troll farms are involved as well. The russians have always been good at propaganda (ie Elders of Zion) and they’re desperately trying to prop up their puppet.

  176. 176.

    Ruckus

    @danielx:
    Well we know he can’t be a conservative or a nazi or a racist or…… because they would never have done this horrible thing.

  179. 179.

    fuckwit

    @Mary G: You can now get CBD extracts from New Leaf and health foods stores! I’m amazed that’s legal, but apparently it is. The stuff is not cheap though. And, though it doesn’t make you high, it does make you hungry (at least it makes me hungry).

  182. 182.

    opiejeanne

    @Ruckus: The Mainline or Mainstream churches are a relatively small group. From Wikipedia: Mainline churches include the so-called Seven Sisters of American Protestantism—the United Methodist Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (not to be confused with Confessional Lutheranism), the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Episcopal Church, the American Baptist Churches, the United Church of Christ, and the Disciples of Christ—as well as the Quakers, Reformed Church in America, African Methodist Episcopal Church (AME) and other churches.

    They are now outnumbered by the non-mainline fundamentalists, literalists, evangelicals, four-square, dominionists, etc. and the current group of evangelicals have made that word a negative thing. Some of the Mainline churches have had fights with their congregations and/or renegade ministers wanting to emulate the Assembly of God churches which are marked by lack of theological education and intolerance. The one in my home town used to hold book burnings; children were encouraged to throw certain favorite toys into the fire like E.T. Beatles tapes, books the preacher didn’t like, etc.

  184. 184.

    Xenos

    I once represented a woman who married someone whose whole family were members of Assembly of God. What a divorce that was. Those people were crooked all the way through.

  186. 186.

    Ruckus

    @opiejeanne:
    All of this may be true but the mainlines used to be the majority and most had some pretty disturbing views. That there are hundreds of flavors of religions around, as well as cults parading as religions, grifters parading as religions and I find that, unrealistic at best. I washed my self of all of it decades ago.

  187. 187.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Ruckus: Whatever works for you. OTOH, my mother is a believer and a church goer. I would bet that her voting and activist record is not beaten by yours. Add in that that MLK and his folk were believers as well. Don’t dismiss it because you don’t feel it.

  188. 188.

    Ruckus

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Reread what I said and read the first post as well
    @Ruckus:
    I’ve never said that you or your mom or anybody else shouldn’t believe or follow whatever you want to. If it is harming others than I’ll amend that to say that one shouldn’t because my ethos is to not harm others without extremely good cause, like say you come across someone raping another human being. It’s OK to harm them if that’s what it takes to stop them. Leave the place better than you found it, in other words. If following a religion does that for you, great. It doesn’t do that for me. And I’ve studied a lot of religions from around the world, practiced a few. But that’s not me, and I have enough experiences to tell me that. As I stated, YMMV.

  189. 189.

    brendancalling

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    If I cared I’d get angry, and I’m tired of getting angry.

    It’s like dealing with an alcoholic. You can only have so many interventions before you walk way and let them hit rock bottom. Maybe they’ll figure it out before they die. Maybe not. But you can’t make the alcoholic’s problems YOUR problems.

    So no: I don’t particularly care. In fact, if I was a betting man I’d bet that most of the people in Sunderland or wherever voted for gunhumpers and most would tell you today that they’re against gun control. Sorry if that’s a dick comment, but it’s also true.

  190. 190.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @(((CassandraLeo))): In fact the Baltimore Sun, for which I reviewed (mostly) science fact/fiction (along with 2 Updike novels plus Jailbird) in the 1970s & early 80s, Now a Tribune rag with all the flaws of the parent birdcage-liner.

    In her Tess Monaghan series of (mostly) Baltimore-centric mystery novels, Laura Lippman (who was a Sun reporter & whose dad Theo was an editor) refers to the fictitious Beacon-Light, shortened to “Blight”, an obvious dig at the Sun‘s masthead featuring a lighthouse & the motto “Light For All”. “Blight For All” is about right these daze…

    Fun fact: Quotes from my reviews of SF hardbacks sometimes appeared on the paperback editions, but always attributed to the paper. Except for once, when they actually included my name–

    And misspelled it.

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