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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Late Night Horrorshow Open Thread: Who Does the NRA Actually Represent?

Late Night Horrorshow Open Thread: Who Does the NRA Actually Represent?

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.

Ever wonder if maybe the monsters are already here on Maple Street?…


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And speaking of politicians who are neither Democrats nor helpful when it comes to gun safety measures…

His defenders will no doubt argue that Sanders was just doing his duty by defending a local industry / employer (as though they didn’t spend months attacking former New York Senator Hillary Clinton’s “soft on Wall Street” speeches). But if the Parkland shooting actually turns out to mark a pivot in the generic voter attitude towards gun safety measures — and I for one most certainly hope it does! — then Sanders’ long-term, on-the-record coddling of gun manufacturers puts him firmly on the wrong side of the electoral argument. Having to spend the months leading up to 2020 insisting that those votes were a long time ago, and also FREEDUMB!!!, will put him even more clearly on the Republican side of the aisle. No more free riding on our Democratic money and organizing.

Reader Interactions

78Comments

  1. 1.

    Mnemosyne

    The same people who defend Sanders on gun control bash Adam Schiff for supporting corporate copyright laws for the exact same reason: big movie studios are Schiff’s constituents.

    How many people has the Digital Millenium Copyright Act killed lately? Just in round numbers.

  2. 2.

    Yutsano

    I don’t want to hear from any Wilmer defenders about any issue.
    Ever.
    I especially don’t want to hear from Saint Bernard of the North.

  3. 3.

    Amir Khalid

    Aside from pandering to a company based in his state, Bernie’s guns-in-Vermont vs guns-in-Chicago comparison is transparently racist. He’s actually distinguishing between guns that white people own and guns that black people own. This man was the great hope of the progressive left?

  9. 9.

    efgoldman

    Bernie Sanders: “In Vermont, guns are used for HUNTING.”

    In Vermont, the murdering bastard who had so many weapons in the house that he’s facing federal firearms charges as well as state murder charges, shot and killed mrs efg’s sister two years ago this past week.

  14. 14.

    Roger Moore

    @Amir Khalid:

    This man was the great hope of the progressive left?

    Sadly, yes. There’s a large block of the “progressive” left that’s damn racist. Their whole shtick about talking about economics rather than identity politics is the way they try to dismiss any attempt to deal with racism. It’s a slightly more sophisticated version of the right’s claims that blacks are the real racists for demanding affirmative action.

  17. 17.

    Ruckus

    Anne, to answer your question, the NRA represents the people behind the curtain, the ones giving them the most money, the big bags of it. If you want to know who that is, think about who benefits from the NRA. You can’t do this from your perspective you have to do this from the perspective of someone with money and who isn’t able to purchase what they want directly. I’d say it’s a good percentage Vlad/Russia. Another good percentage would be someone like the Mercers and/or the Kocksucker Bros. They wouldn’t do this openly, as that would be too obvious, even for them. The NRA was as American that other staple, apple pie. But this was 50 yrs ago. They have since sold their soul to the dark side. There aren’t enough gun humpers to pay them dues anything like what they pay out in political bribes so there is a money trail there and it doesn’t lead to the moms of America foundation. BTW 50 yrs ago I was a member. I think I lasted 2 yrs before I said I can put this money to better use, there’s an In and Out down the street.

  19. 19.

    Ladyraxterinok

    Has it been mentioned here that FL gov Scott is to be the featured speaker at the NRA Leadership Forum?!?!

  21. 21.

    Mnemosyne

    Interesting factoids in this USA Today article: Chicago had highest number of murders in the US last year, but its murder rate (ie the number of murders per 100,000 of population) actually puts it in the middle of the pack. St. Louis (MO) continues to have the highest murder rate in the US even though they’re a much smaller city.

    Chicago actually reduced the number of murders over last year’s total by using new data-driven methods. The number one problem, which Chicago police repeat over and over to every media outlet in the country? Illegal guns.

    I can’t help wondering who exactly finds it convenient to flood the streets of Chicago with cheap, illegal guns.

  27. 27.

    efgoldman

    @Duane:

    I remember you sharing that.

    I’m never a singlke issue voter; I recognize political reality, and that politics used to require compromise.
    But on guns, there is no compromise
    I wouldn’t vote for Wilmer even if he ended up the Den nominee. Which he won’t.
    If he runs, I expect him to get thousands fewer votes than last time.

  29. 29.

    Aleta

    Vermont has no law:

    Prohibiting individuals subject to domestic violence protective orders from possessing firearms or ammunition, although federal law applies;
    Requiring courts to notify domestic abusers that they are prohibited by federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition;
    Requiring the removal or surrender of firearms at the time a domestic violence protective order is issued; or
    Requiring the removal of firearms at the scene of a domestic violence incident.

  31. 31.

    efgoldman

    @Ruckus:

    to answer your question, the NRA represents the people behind the curtain, the ones giving them the most money, the big bags of it.

    Isn’t gun humper for all a non-profit? And aren’t they therefore required to report?

  33. 33.

    efgoldman

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    I also expect his treatment will be far less kind that what he received from Sec. Clinton

    Since at least at the beginning it’s going to be a free for all. Nobody’s gonna’ cut him any slack. And if Ms. Wilmer’s tax case moves forward, if he has half a brain he’ll stay out. Which he should do anyway.
    I expect a lot more state parties will be hesitant to give him primary ballot access, too.

  34. 34.

    Anne Laurie

    @Ruckus:

    BTW 50 yrs ago I was a member.

    Fifty years ago, so was my old man, because his parents had a summer cottage in Dutchess County near a gun club. He gave it up, according to him, when he realized he couldn’t tell if his fellow shootists were talking about their weapons or their wives…

  36. 36.

    Ruckus

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:
    I’m a life member of the organization that I worked for a subsidiary of in OH, the parent is a non-profit membership organization. But about 20-25 yrs ago they basically removed all the perks of being a life member. All it really meant was that you had joined and either paid for 25 yrs or had paid a one time fee for always being forgotten. My membership card is more useful as a recyclable than as anything else. I’d bet that your lifetime NRA membership is not a lot different. Do you get the magazine? Do they still have a magazine? That was the best perk of being a life member the magazine, for either org actually. But when I worked there I could get all the copies I wanted and I went to lunch regularly when in town with the guy who would be called the publisher (passed away in Dec 2016) and the managing editor is still a good friend. So no harm, no foul.

  37. 37.

    Ruckus

    @efgoldman:
    Well I doubt that the dems will make the same mistake again. Although it’s not completely beyond the realm. They will hear from me if TPTB want to anoint him again. I’d expect him to get a dramatic number fewer. He’s older than dirt, and if I had my choice of voting for him or dirt, I’m going with dirt. I like it better.

  38. 38.

    Anne Laurie

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Actually I was gifted with a NRA life membership by one of my dad’s friends when I was in my teens. I guess I’m still technically a member.

    Unless things have changed in the last few years, one way the NRA has always inflated its “Every real American is an NRA supporter” bullshite is by counting all ‘life membership’ giftees as active supporters. During the 50s/60s/70s, at least, such memberships were cheap enough to be a courtesy gift to new grandkids / nephews / business clients’ kids, like you. A big chunk of those ‘lifetime members’ may well not even know they’re being used as rhetorical cannon-fodder, unless they run across a yellowed certificate while they’re cleaning out their parents’ houses…

    It’s still a “clan identifier” point of pride in some circles, of course. Rick Santorum bought his daughter Bella a lifetime membership as part of his failed campaign run. He acknowledged it was unlikely she’d ever do much shooting (she’s got trisomy 18, it’ll be a miracle if she survives to adulthood, much less be competent to handle a weapon) but he said it proved how much he loved her.

  40. 40.

    Ruckus

    @efgoldman:
    Good point, I don’t have any idea. But I do know that required to file and getting audited are two different things. The parent company of the company I worked for in OH is a non-profit and I do know that over 30-35 yrs ago the president was mishandling money and the place almost went broke. Employees had to stage a coup to get rid of him. And they only knew because on one payday there wasn’t enough money to make the payroll. And then about 10 yrs or so ago one of the board members was filing false expense reports and it took an audit to catch him. He’d been doing this for about a decade. A non-profit is no better than the people running it, just like any other human endeavor.

  41. 41.

    Mnemosyne

    @hitless:

    They come through Indiana, but how do they get there in the first place? Saying that the illegal guns come from Indiana is kind of like saying that heroin comes from a dealer two towns over — it doesn’t give you much sense of what the trade route is.

  42. 42.

    Sm*t Cl*de

    Don’t make Florida school shooting conversation about taking away people’s guns

    Don’t let the national conversation about school shootings get diverted onto the possibility of not shooting people.

  43. 43.

    Ruckus

    @Anne Laurie:
    OK I got a chuckle out of that.
    50 yrs ago I used to hunt ducks and geese. The entire thing revolved around a buddy’s dad and mom. He was the gun guy, we even reloaded our shells in his workshop. Mom would cook up everything we’d shot at the end of the season and we’d all have a feast. Being a member of the NRA was as natural as breathing. We’d camp out, go fishing during the day, hunt birds at sunrise and sunset and otherwise just goof off. It’s when I found out that I didn’t care for guns all that much. Sure it’s fun but some people are, how shall I put it, fucking idiots. They don’t get smarter when they have a gun in their hands. I quit when I came within inches of getting shot with a 12 ga at close range. This was during Vietnam and I was 1A at the time, I figured my life expectancy was finite enough, don’t go looking for trouble. No I wasn’t that smart myself it took 3 tries to convince me.

  45. 45.

    Aleta

    From NRA Youth and NRA Youth Ambassadorship

    NRA has resources, programs and training to assist youth organizations, such as Boy Scout troops, Royal Ranger outposts, American Legion posts, JROTC units, 4-H clubs, FFA chapters, commercial summer camps and U.S. Jaycee chapters, National High School Rodeo Association, BSA Venturing, and USA Shooting.

    Your organization or club can become part of NRA’s Network of clubs nationwide. NRA Youth Club Affiliation provides you with numerous benefits and services from NRA, such as:

    Free Magazine – Your club may choose a subscription to either InSights (NRA’s magazine for youth), American Rifleman, American Hunter, or America’s 1st Freedom.

    Commissioned Recruiting Program – Help your club earn money by recruiting NRA members both through your club and at outside venues such as gun shows. Recruiter programs earn commissions of up to $10.
    Many clubs earn thousands of dollars each year through this no-cost program! NRA provides recruiting material and offers tips and techniques on becoming a successful recruiter.

    Liability Insurance – Your club will be eligible to purchase valuable NRA-endorsed insurance coverage for your shooting and hunting activities.

    100% Club Benefits – Clubs maintaining a 100% NRA individual membership in any calendar year receive additional benefits (including our unique 100% Plaque).

    Outstanding Youth Club Award – Your club can receive awards for outstanding programs and achievements.

    Range Development Grant Program – NRA affiliates may qualify for grants to acquire, develop or expand shooting facilities. NRA grants average $4 million dollars each year!

    Free Legislative Alerts – Your club will be alerted of legislation likely to affect sportsmen and clubs at the national, state and local levels. Clubs with fax machines and/or computers can receive up-to-the-minute information from NRA-ILA Grassroots.

    Youth who are interested in becoming Ambassadors must be: 
    * At least 16 years old and no older than 21 years old
    * Active in a Youth Shooting Sports Program
    * Able to travel one week in January/February to the Great American Outdoor Show in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
    * A successful public speaker
    * Enjoy writing articles
    * Able to attend the National Rifle Association’s Annual Meetings

  47. 47.

    Aleta

    From Vice News Aug 2015

    A Boy Scouts camp in Maine is now using silencers — the controversial devices that muffle the sound of gunshots — as part of their marksmanship training, thanks to donations from various firearms companies and coordinating efforts by pro-silencer groups.

    In July, Camp William Hind in Maine began using 10 silencers donated from two of the leading silencer companies, Gemtech and SilencerCo, Scout Executive Eric Tarbox told VICE News. Gemtech donated eight silencers and SilencerCo gave two. The camp also received a donation of eight .22 rifles and ammunition.

    Shooting programs have been a central part of Boy Scouts training for decades, but Camp William Hinds, which is overseen by Boy Scouts of America’s Pine Tree Council, is the first to use silencers.

    The National Rifle Association (NRA) connected Tarbox with the American Suppressor Association (ASA), a pro-silencer advocacy group, NRA spokesperson Lars Dalseide told VICE News. The ASA then acted as a liaison between the Boy Scouts and the manufacturers after the Pine Tree Council expressed interest in acquiring silencers.

    The adoption of the silencers, also called suppressors, comes after the camp recently acquired 50 more acres of conservation land and finished constructing a new shooting range.

  48. 48.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Presidential populist Bernie Sanders came under blistering fire Tuesday for opposing efforts by families of Sandy Hook shooting victims to sue gun manufacturers.

    Sanders, in an exclusive interview with the Daily News last week, said, “No, I don’t,” when asked if victims of a crime with a gun should be able to sue the manufacturer.

  50. 50.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Aleta: He said it would hurt local ma and pa gun shops who are the salt of the earth and just trying to help sportsmen.

  51. 51.

    Aleta

    @Aleta: From the same 2015 Vice article

    Silencers are still relatively difficult to obtain. If someone wants to legally acquire one, they must pass an extensive federal background check, receive written approval from their chief law enforcement officer, register their silencer with the Department of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and pay a $200 tax. The entire process usually takes nine months to a year.

    In an effort to make the process easier, SilencerCo, one of the companies that donated to the Boy Scouts, offers legal services for a $130 fee.

    For many years the NRA did not have an explicit stance favoring silencers, in part because of the negative image associated with the devices. This changed in 2011, when the NRA backed a group of gun manufacturers, including Gemtech and SilencerCo, in forming the American Suppressor Association.

    A primary objective of the ASA, according to the group’s website, is to “raise public awareness about the benefits and merits of suppressors through a comprehensive public awareness campaign.” In other words, move the association of silencers away from the gangster-associated past and reframe them as a tool for safety.

    Getting silencers into the hands of Boy Scouts is the latest example of how the devices have been rapidly normalized since the days of Al Capone, and, according to Barrett, a direct result of firearms manufacturers attempting to increase gun ownership across the country.

    “The market is shrinking and the [gun industry] is interested in trying to build it back up,” Barret said. Giving Boy Scouts ammunition and accessories such as silencers “is one of their desperate attempts to do so.”
    …
    Gun companies “will do anything they can” to make money, and silencers are a major way to do so, Barrett claimed. Since guns don’t wear out, the industry needs to rely on selling accessories, ammunition and add-ons such to keep profiting, Barrett said. Firearms companies make a substantial amount of money from the sale of accessories, sometimes more than the guns themselves.

    “There was absolutely a PR aspect to it,” Knox said of the decision to donate silencers to the Boy Scouts. “We’d like to see every Boy Scout rifle have a suppressor on it, as well as every shotgun they learn to shoot on have a suppressor on it,” he said.

  53. 53.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Aleta: He got elected in 1990 because he cut a deal with the NRA. They’d back him in return he’d cast votes for them.

    BURLINGTON, Vt. — A few days before Election Day in 1990, the National Rifle Association sent a letter to its 12,000 members in Vermont, with an urgent message about the race for the state’s single House seat.

    Vote for the socialist, the gun rights group said. It’s important.

    “Bernie Sanders is a more honorable choice for Vermont sportsmen than ­Peter Smith,” wrote Wayne LaPierre, who was — and still is — a top official at the national NRA, backing Sanders over the Republican incumbent.

  54. 54.

    mai naem mobile

    What is going on with the investigation into Bernie and his wife? I think it was the FBI that was investigating. Last I remember, Bernie had hired some high powered attorney. To me that seems like thr fastest way to get rid of him.

  56. 56.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Las Vegas (CNN) — Bernie Sanders says he wants to talk — at length — about guns. Just not now.

    Two days after a white man walked into a historically black church in Charleston, South Carolina, and killed nine people, the Vermont senator and presidential candidate took a cautious approach on gun control Friday when speaking with reporters after an event in Las Vegas.
    ***

    “I will talk about guns at some length,” he said, “but not right now.” (link)

    It’s been 976 days since he said that. He must of misfiled his planned big speech along the tax returns he promised to release.

  57. 57.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @mai naem mobile:It was reported last month that a grand jury has been impaneled and they are taking testimony.

    he federal probe into a 2010 land deal orchestrated by former Burlington College president Jane Sanders, wife of U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., has deepened. VTDigger has confirmed that a grand jury has compelled sworn witness testimony in the case.

    The Vermont U.S. Attorney’s office has interviewed at least one witness before the grand jury to determine whether indictments should be handed up to a judge.

    (link)

    Tick tock… tick tock

  58. 58.

    opiejeanne

    @Ruckus: They can screen for it during the first trimester with some success, and more in the second trimester, but I think he’s Catholic so he’s supposed to let the baby be born to suffer until the child dies horribly. .

  60. 60.

    Ruckus

    @opiejeanne:
    Well you know you can’t get into heaven if you don’t suffer. So in that vein he’s doing the child a favor. I think I’ve met the priest who came up with that one. A fine piece of work he was. I was 12. And if he didn’t he was certainly capable. I may not be the right person to discuss the catholic church and it’s concepts. Way too much bullshit under that bridge.

  64. 64.

    Barbara

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Regarding Jane Sanders: Even an indictment would be bad news for Sanders, but I have kept close tabs on this and it will be hard to prove bank fraud. The lack of personal benefit to Sanders will be emphasized repeatedly.

  65. 65.

    L Boom

    If anyone’s even mildly curious, an update from the Too-Fucking-Sick-of-Bernie and Husband-of-Former-Burlington-College-Faculty-Member part of Vermont:

    Anecdotally, I hear more and more people complaining about Bernie, so there’s that. Realistically, though, he’s leaving the Senate feet first. And we might be stuck with Bernie’s stepdaugher/Jane’s spawn, Carina Driscoll, as mayor of Burlington. Mayor of Burlington is a poor springboard for state-wide office (with really only Bernie himself making the jump in a very long time).

    On the gun front, though, I think there’s likely to be significant movement happening. We had our own near-brush with a school shooting in Fair Haven, which made our Republican governor back off the reflexive “Restricting guns won’t help” statement right after the Parkland shootings, and the activists I know are ramping up for some gun control stuff. Personally, I grew up in the “god and guns” part of PA and long ago gave up on any hope of gun control. That said, it feels like something really has changed and I’ll be making calls to the governor’s and our state rep’s offices tomorrow morning. So who knows, maybe we could actually overcome Vermont exceptionalism and get some sane gun laws passed.

  66. 66.

    BigHank53

    I thought silencers were illegal.

    Silencers–like fully automatic weapons–fall into the category of Class III weapons. They are legal to own if you pass a hefty federal background check and pay a significant transfer tax every time a Class III weapon changes hands. As part of the background check you waive your 4th amendment rights–the ATF can show up at any time and inspect ’em.

    The NRA is trying to move silencers out of Class III.

  67. 67.

    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)

    @BigHank53:

    $200 was a significant amount of money back in 1934.
    Not so much today.

    That said, I’d actually support lowering the transfer tax to $5*, as long as the rest of the NFA provisions remain in place.

    *Basically reclassifying suppressors as “any other weapon” under the 1934 NFA.

  68. 68.

    No Drought No More

    OK, lets talk about the death and democratic presidential candidates. Hillary Clinton has more blood on her hands than Sanders will have if he lives another hundred years. Bernie is wrong about gun control, but Bernie makes clear where he stands. Hillary would have Americans believe the Bush-Cheney plot to war remains an honest mistake made by honorable people. Why? Because she took counsel of her presidential ambition, supported it to the hilt, and still lacks the guts to admit she was wrong. Strangely enough, she still wants to be president. I don’t understand how people like her sleep at night..

  70. 70.

    john fremont

    @joel hanes: Interesting about the change in the American Rifleman and how the Second Amendment was not even mentioned in the magazine back in the 40’s and 50’s. Then from the late 70’s on it’s mentioned in every issue. In the late 70’s and early 80’s was also the time when movies like Deathwish and Fort Apache: The Bronx that dramatized urban life as people being at the mercy of hordes of violent criminals roaming the streets at will. That is about the era the American Rifleman started running its Best Defense feature of Americans using their firearms in self defense i.e. “Mrs. Erma Potter , 71,of Springfield Ill. heard two burglars trying to break into her garage, so she grabbed her late husband’s Ruger Service Six and proceeded to chase etc…”
    I remember the NRA back then as my marksmanship instructors at Boy Scout summer camp, middle aged deer and duck hunting guys. They weren’t anything like the gundementalists and doomsday peppers I run into now.

  71. 71.

    Mnemosyne

    @No Drought No More:

    Hillary would have Americans believe the Bush-Cheney plot to war remains an honest mistake made by honorable people.

    Actually, what she says about Iraq is that Bush and Cheney lied to Congress, and she was fool enough to believe them. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of what you’re claiming she says.

  72. 72.

    J R in WV

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Actually I was gifted with a NRA life membership by one of my dad’s friends when I was in my teens. I guess I’m still technically a member.

    My brother in Texas is a life member, with the decal on all his vehicles. He also bought life memberships for his two sons, one of whom is trying to become a LEO in Texas, the other has become an officer in the Navy after completing OCS, his first challenge in the military, to be followed by Sub School and Nuke School. No do-overs in Navy Nuke school.

    Both boys were Eagle Scouts, too.

  74. 74.

    Ruckus

    @Mnemosyne:
    Isn’t this one always trying to make a point which is always exactly 180 deg opposite what actually happened? IOW always wrong. I wonder if english is it’s first language? Perhaps russian is?

  75. 75.

    Ruckus

    @Barbara:
    What if the benefits are not so obvious?
    I don’t notice that much of their financial life has surfaced. Most of that at their own doing. Running on a financial concept of monetary equality, I wonder if they believe their own bullshit or have profited rather nicely for a couple that does OK but should not be all that grand.

  77. 77.

    Ella in New Mexico

    2005 was then. Granted, things were bad then, too, but the amoral ugliness of the Republican party and the iron fist of the NRA was just as salient and threatening to rural politicians who dared vote against them. i know because I live in one, and our rural folks love their guns, Democrat and Republicans.

    2018 is now. Perhaps anyone who had concerns then about protecting the civil rights of small, “mom and pop” firearms businesses in order to meet the demands of a constituent in their tiny state so that they might be able to hold their seat and do better things in Congress than the Republican that might take it will have a different perspective on this issue, given the interceding pandemic slaughtering of innocents and the mood of the nation.

    Call me a simple thinker but… If a company is not only negligent but complicit in it’s harms to the public, it’s a long respected legal action to hold them accountable in the courts to stop it-sometimes civilly, sometimes criminally. We got safer cars and cribs that don’t strangle our babies because of this standard. We bring down organized crime and money laundering cartels because we hold an actor at the top of the food chain accountable for the putz who kills someone to cover up their crimes at the bottom of the food chain equally legally accountable.

    So how is making gun manufacturers immune from ANY wrongdoing not the same as saying we’ll never go after narco-gangs and drug dealers who supply the source of the things that kill thousands of people at the end of the transaction?

    i’m not a lawyer but I really don’t get how PLCAA has not been challenged in court. Wouldn’t 2018 be the perfect time for an advocacy group or a powerful state AG to go ahead and find a way to do it right now, while the iron is hot? I know Pam Bondi in FL would be a no show, but there are clearly affected parties all over the country right now who have standing.

    Short of that, we need to scream loudly that this law needs to be repealed or greatly reformed.

  78. 78.

    Gravie

    @efgoldman: p The NRA is a 501(c)4 nonprofit, that special category of “social welfare” organizations that Tea Party organizations exploited to the hilt. This designation has far more latitude to lobby than do 501(c)3 orgs, but I assume they still have to report their income sources.

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