In a coordinated action, the United States and several countries of Europe have expelled Russians identified as spies in solidarity with the UK over the poison attack in Salisbury. The US is also closing down the Seattle Russian consulate.
State department statement on expulsion of Russian spies. pic.twitter.com/bp9NKRKz0a
— Julian Borger (@julianborger) March 26, 2018
Full White House statement on the expulsion of Russian intelligence officers pic.twitter.com/WPX4KLXmIJ
— Christina Wilkie (@christinawilkie) March 26, 2018
Countries expelling Russian diplomats/intelligence officers in response to Skripal (so far, all except UK happening today):
US: 60 (12 from UN)
UK: 23
Germany: 4
France: 4
Poland: 4
Czech Republic: 3
Lithuania: 3
Netherlands: 2
Denmark: 2
Estonia: 2Probably missing some.
— Thomas Rid (@RidT) March 26, 2018
Putin will be surprised by the strength of support UK getting from its allies on the use of CW in Salisbury. To be frank, a lot of Brits will also be (pleasantly) surprised.
— Lawrence Freedman (@LawDavF) March 26, 2018
Nikki Haley statement on expulsion of alleged Russian spies, including 12 from Russian mission to UN pic.twitter.com/avvPvC9B0c
— columlynch (@columlynch) March 26, 2018
President of the European Council:
Today 14 EU Member States decided to expel Russian diplomats as direct follow-up to #EUCO discussion last week on #SalisburyAttack. Additional measures including further expulsions are not excluded in coming days, weeks.
— Donald Tusk (@eucopresident) March 26, 2018
Bringing together the actions of 14 European states and the US, announced simultaneously, indicates a lot of coordination at working levels in the US state department and intelligence agencies. This is in strong contrast to Donald Trump’s congratulations to his bff Vladimir Putin. The US government still works.
And open thread.
Cheryl Rofer
Baud
Good. This shows that Trump is self conscious enough to understand there are still political limits to his control. Keep pressing.
manyakitty
Is the Seattle location of particular importance?
Amir Khalid
For perspective, how does this round of expulsions compare in scale to diplomat expusions in the Cold War era?
schrodingers_cat
@manyakitty: They can see Russia from their window with a telescope, perhaps?
manyakitty
@schrodingers_cat: lolz
SiubhanDuinne
@manyakitty:
According to the statement, because of its proximity to one our our submarine bases, and Boeing.
manyakitty
@SiubhanDuinne: That makes sense. I thought maybe Uncle Vlady told him which to choose.
ARoomWithAMoose
@manyakitty: Seatle: Major tech center (that employs plenty of H1Bs), port city, naval bases, a Boeing production line for civilian airliners, financial center… Sounds like a convenient place for a foreign mission, even if only to provide an official contact point for your own nationals living there for business reasons.
Wapiti
@manyakitty: I’d guess tech and biotech as much as Boeing/sub bases.
Cheryl Rofer
@manyakitty: Naval Base Kitsap, the US’s third largest naval base, is located nearby.
father pussbucket
Did Stormy put the fear of God into the Traitor Tribble (thanks, driftglass)?
schrodingers_cat
@manyakitty:Thanks. BTW I answered your question about HR in the thread below.
Cheryl Rofer
Let’s not forget Canada.
manyakitty
So this is actually a significant punishment. Are there many other such bases in the PNW area? With this one closing and SF already gone, I wonder if they’re starting to scramble.
manyakitty
@schrodingers_cat: Saw that. Thanks for the insight!
Baud
While this is a good thing, it is truly remarkable that the President of the United States has nothing to say about one of the most significant actions his administration can take in the international arena.
jeffreyw
I like pie!
Cheryl Rofer
@Baud: Yes, the problem with the President* continues.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Does he know it yet? President Putin is going to be mad, now. Oh noes.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: Even with everything that’s happened, I’d be surprised if he wasn’t told about this.
Ian R
If only said president* were one of the people being expelled.
NCSteve
The Silence of the Twitters from Combover Caligula is deafening, however. If this had been any other country, he would be boasting about his Very Strong response and contrasting it with Hillary and Obama’s weakness. Teh Deeeeep State forced him to do this and that’s going to lead to a tantrum in due course.
Calouste
I doubt a full boycott of the World Cup will happen. Governments don’t have the sway over the FA’S, which are private organizations. I do expect more countries to follow the lead of the UK and not send the usual cabinet ministers to the event. And there are probably quite a few supporters checking the cancelation policy of their tickets.
Jeffro
@schrodingers_cat:
I wonder if this will cause a few “collusion* bombshells” to drop (or should I say, “warning shots” to be fired)? Trumpov is demonstrating that he’s either ok with punishing Putin or that he’s powerless to stop sanctions, expulsions, etc. I don’t see Putin backing off on this. I guess we’ll see.
*Btw switching to “conspiracy” instead of “collusion” from here forward (should have done it quite some time ago). “Conspiracy against the United States” is what some of the Special Counsel’s charges have been/will be, and it’ll irritate the hell out of RWNJs who like to try and lean on “THERE’S NO SUCH CHARGE AS ‘COLLUSION!!1!”, so I’m going with that.
Amir Khalid
@Baud:
Trump’s obviously unhappy, because Vladimir is going to be pissed. I reckon he was told America had to expel Russian diplomats too, or he would look lke a weak leader. My guess is that he’s keeping quiet about it so that Vladimir won’t get too pissed at him personally.
JR
@manyakitty: subs subs subs
There is lots of IP to steal there too
Baud
@Amir Khalid: That’s the thing. Trump’s (obviously pretextual) excuse for being nice to Putin is that he wants to improve the relationship between the U.S. and Russia. That arguably could justify taking no action against Russia here. It cannot justify taking action against Russia and then Trump staying quiet as a mouse about it. Not that I believed the policy excuse anyway, but it’s pretty clear now that something else is going on between Trump and Putin.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: He’s waiting for instructions.
West of the Cascades
When is Trump going to expel the Russians from his re-election campaign?
jonas
Question for Cheryl or Adam perhaps: whenever we have one of these tit-for-tat diplomat expulsions, the ostensible justification is that the officials were using diplomatic cover to engage in illicit intelligence activities. So did we “know” the consular or embassy people named were involved in spying *before* some incident called for their expulsion, or do intelligence/diplomatic communities just sort of tolerate a certain amount of nosing around by consular officials as long as it’s not reckless, and then have that card handy to play when they need it?
rikyrah
Lips pursed on this.
germy
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
I say take away SWIFT for some genuine pain. Lock down the oligarch money.
germy
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
I wonder how hard it was to talk Czar Manbaby into doing this. I can’t think he was happy about this. And his master is going to be even less happy.
Gin & Tonic
My son was just at a meeting at US Emb Moscow, Flew home yesterday. I’m glad he’s back in the US today.
Gin & Tonic
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Bingo. That’s the only sanction with teeth.
Baud
@germy:
Given that this is in reaction to the UK poisoning, I’d actually prefer to let them take the lead. Of course, we should be doing our own thing with regard to the election interference.
NotMax
If memory serves, very early on Dolt 45 was bemoaning and announcing intentions to undo Obama-era expulsions.
rp
On a somewhat related note, I was wondering how Greenwald would spin the march on Saturday, and this morning we got an answer: he retweeted two people making the argument that the vets for gun reform video is awful because they’re taking the position that assault rifles should be banned in the US but are fine for using overseas to kill non-Americans. One of the tweets even linked to Emma Gonzalez posting the video, in essence attacking her for supporting vets for gun reform.
OzarkHillbilly
@jonas: They know who are spies are in the Moscow Embassy. Knowing who they are it is easier to keep tabs on what they are doing so the Russians tolerate their existence. They same in reverse is true. The same is true for just about all countries everywhere. It’s a sort of detente.
Baud
@rp:
I know it’s GG, but is there any basis for this assertion other than they are in the military?
Gin & Tonic
@rp: Now that Bill Kristol is occasionally right in his public pronouncements, has GG taken the “always wrong” place in the punditosphere?
Raoul
The US government still works, sometimes.
This is indeed good to see. But we will need to see more evidence than this before believing that chaos isn’t the more common norm for this Admin.
Jeffro
@jonas: Ooo ooo call on me, I know the answer!
Gin & Tonic
Ukraine is joining with its European and North American allies and expelling 13 RU “diplomats.”
Jeffro
@Amir Khalid: @Baud: It would not surprise me if Trumpov’s legal team and perhaps other advisers have told him that he needs to go along with anti-Russia measures at least long enough to get through the midterms. There’s been just too much out there, and a significant majority of the country (hallelujah!) now thinks there really was/is something between Trumpov and Russia.
Gin & Tonic
@Gin & Tonic: Latvia, too.
rp
@Baud: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Here’s what one of the people he retweeted said:
rp
@Gin & Tonic: Good point.
Cheryl Rofer
@jonas: Every country employs spies in its overseas diplomatic establishments. They usually are pretty obvious to the knowledgeable, and, of course, the intelligence agencies have detailed records. So these expulsions are targeted, and each side knows that the other knows it knows.
I was at a US embassy party overseas, and my host (not a government official) challenged me to pick out the spy. It was a no-brainer. Also, when Soviet delegations visited Los Alamos, there always was one person who didn’t know much about science.
ETA: There’s a limit to what one country can do about another’s diplomatic delegation. No point in trying to catch every single spy with technical violations. They are a resource for this kind of diplomatic action.
Baud
@rp: Next thing you know, the military will be wanting tanks and jet planes. #slipperyslope
And where did “law enforcement” come from? Were they involved in the ad?
Cheryl Rofer
rp
As I noted in response, those tweets are quite similar to arguments the NRA is making: (a) these kids are naive and are being misled, and (b) the state shouldn’t have a monopoly on military weapons.
NotMax
@Cheryl Rofer
in the BBC program The Ambassador, about the British ambassador to Ireland, anyone of import knows who the MI6 operative within the embassy is and adjusts their interactions accordingly.
In fact, the ambassador herself greets him with “Hi, spook.”
Tony Jay
@Calouste:
Countdown to Boris Johnson demanding that FIFA show solidarity with the UK by taking the World Cup from Russia and asking Britain to host it. Quickly followed by a panicked Government statement disavowing Johnson’s comments as not representing Government policy. Followed by Johnson saying he was taken out of context and was only offering his personal opinion that anyone who plays in Ivan’s tournament is as much a collaborator as athletes who competed in the Berlin Olympics. Followed by another panicked Government statement disavowing Johnson’s comments as not representing Government policy. Followed by Johnson giving an interview to the Telegraph in which he uses the words “Jesse Owens”, “Piccaninnies” and “natural athletes” in close proximity. Followed by ‘moderate’ Labour MPs dashing to the nearest camera to accuse Jeremy Corbyn of dressing in blackface and burning holes through Paul Robeson records. Followed by a relieved Government statement chuckling that “Boris will be Boris” and can we all now talk about how the Opposition is totally falling apart?
I give it until tomorrow morning.
Cheryl Rofer
schrodingers_cat
@rp: At this point it is clear that GG is a Russian asset and should be completely ignored.
Anonymous At Work
@manyakitty: Russian is one of the top 5 languages spoken in Seattle. Large population there. Boeing and naval bases for spies, plus tech and medical hub. Also, nearest deep water US port to Vladivostok.
So…no…not a small deal and a good selection.
rp
@schrodingers_cat: True, but it’s useful to see how he’s framing and spinning various issues precisely because he’s a mouthpiece.
schrodingers_cat
@rp: Monitor him to know what BS Kremlin is feeding to the dopes, who still love GG.
gvg
@Baud: Geez what a stupid argument. The military has nuclear bombs, and they aren’t supposed to have semi automatic guns? Army’s are used in real combat. Civilians shouldn’t have war weapons, thats kind of the point.
Now an argument we are using our military too much and too stupidly in ways that just make enemies without any gain….we can talk a lot about that but it’s not caused by civilians not having AR-15’s.
Roger Moore
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m sure they discussed it during his phone call with Putin and got the OK to target a Russian consulate that wasn’t doing important intelligence work.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@manyakitty: I still think that. My guess would be the diplomats expelled were low-level operatives or not spies, and that the head of station and most important spies are still in place.
JR
@rp: Greenwald might want to catch up on his reading.
Waldo
So, how long before Twitler accuses the expelled diplomats of colluding with Hillary?
James E Powell
@schrodingers_cat:
Russian asset or just an a-hole? Hard to tell.
schrodingers_cat
@James E Powell: All his assholishness consistently points in one direction. Coincidence?
Immanentize
I notice that Nikki Haley’s statement forgets to include Russian meddling in the 2016 elections. That said, I bet that some of the Russians expelled — particularly the UN ones, had some direct ties to election sabotage.
Ella in New Mexico
@Baud:
I suspect that this was put in place a couple of weeks ago by Tillerson/McMaster and that Trumpypootin didn’t even have a hand in it’s going down. Maybe he didn’t even know it was going to happen–staffers say they hate to tell him bad news because he tantrums all day afterwards.
No, this was an act by the nearly dead but still breathing remains of our State Department and national security agencies. Trump gets no credit.
Roger Moore
@James E Powell:
Russian asset. Apart from his role in steering Edward Snowden to Russia, there’s the way he takes Russia’s side on everything. He may or may not be taking Russian money or dealing with Russian kompromat, but he’s clearly in Russia’s pocket. It seems especially ironic given his supposed concern over human rights, especially LGBTQ rights.
Immanentize
@Roger Moore:
GG voice: “But other countries are worse than Russia — Look at Uganda! Look at the way all the people in the US killed Mathew Sheppard! And don’t even get me started on Chelsea Manning!!!!”
Whatabout it, Glen? Or, “Whataboutit Glen.” your choice.
Gelfling 545
@Baud: He may not know about it yet?
Just One More Canuck
@Gin & Tonic:I don’t know about GG being always wrong – I don’t read him enough – but he’s certainly no worse than a tie for first in the ‘always a dick’ standings
prostratedragon
@Jeffro:
Compare the magistrate (trailer for Z), around 0:10 and 0:44. At some point he became persuaded by new evidence.
Captain C
@Cheryl Rofer: 60 Americans breathe a sigh of relief that they no longer have to deal with all the crap that comes with a Russia posting.
Captain C
@Tony Jay:
Which would save Russia the embarrassment of not getting out of the group stage of their own World Cup, as is quite possible.
Captain C
@Immanentize:
The answer to that, of course, is, “Hey, Glenn, talk to me when you can come back from the (nonexistent) Moscow Pride Parade without having the snot beat out of you. Or we can assume that you’re totally fine with some persistent and harsh violators of human rights.”
Brachiator
@Cheryl Rofer:
Some of this stuff strikes me as an elaborate game that nations play. They got spies. We got spies. They know who our spies are. We know who their spies are. We let them operate. They let ours operate.
And when there is an international incident, we expel a few and they expel a few. And then everybody returns to what they do. Spying on each other.
Tokyokie
I understand that the United States, the Netherlands, Italy, and, of course, Norway all plan to stage a partial NATO boycott of the World Cup.
Geoduck
Re: Seattle. Along with everything already mentioned, there’s also the joint Army-Air Force base, Lewis-McChord, not too far to the south beyond Tacoma.
Captain C
@Tokyokie: They will be joined by Chile and 2002 3rd place finisher Turkey.
Parfigliano
@ARoomWithAMoose: surely the us has some say on where they get to put missios…embassies…why green light seattle? Why not say to them your mission…spies go here…SD…middle of the country only thing there is Ellsworth and some silos buried in the ground (if even operational)…with modern tech they can still do their mission business