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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Civic Obligations Open Thread: Tax Reax

Civic Obligations Open Thread: Tax Reax

by Anne Laurie|  April 18, 201810:57 pm| 92 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Crazification Factor, Hail to the Hairpiece, Open Threads, Republican Venality, Trump Crime Cartel, Decline and Fall, Ever Get The Feeling You've Been Cheated?

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DEVELOPING: IRS eFile system is at least partially down as taxpayers scramble to file returns on Tax Day. Hill leaders notified this morning.
https://t.co/cKyCkfawEJ

— Mike DeBonis (@mikedebonis) April 17, 2018

UPDATE: Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin says Americans who have been unable to pay their taxes Tuesday because the IRS payment website is down will receive an extension. https://t.co/yjLa6wSGlK pic.twitter.com/eaFiJFY0ZC

— The Boston Globe (@BostonGlobe) April 17, 2018

You can tell a country is sinking into kleptocracy / kakistocracy when basic bureaucratic systems break down under predictable stress, and everybody’s reaction is {shrug emoji}…

So many people are seeing the benefits of the Tax Cut Bill. Everyone is talking, really nice to see!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 17, 2018

new NBC/WSJ Poll on tax-cut:

mostly positive effects: 39%
mostly negative effects: 53% https://t.co/pB0KAGYeLp

— John Harwood (@JohnJHarwood) April 17, 2018

Couple interesting tax-related pieces:

From Governing, “Why Low-Tax States Could Come to Dislike the New Tax Law, Too”.

When Congress capped the state and local tax deduction at $10,000 as part of its tax overhaul late last year, it was mostly officials from high-tax states such as California, New Jersey and New York that cried foul. But new research shows that taxpayers in more than one-third of states — some with relatively low income taxes — could be negatively affected by the change.

In 19 states and the District of Columbia, the average taxpayer deducted more than $10,000 in state and local taxes, according to a report released this week by the Pew Charitable Trusts. It looked at tax returns from 2015 and found that the average deductions in those 19 states ranged from more than $22,000 in New York to just $10,121 in New Hampshire.

The report’s author, Phillip Oliff, says the data indicates that the new cap will affect filers in states all across the country. That runs contrary to popular sentiment that only high-tax states would be negatively impacted by the cap. Officials from those states have worried that limiting the deductability of state and local taxes could make it harder to raise tax rates in the future because taxpayers wouldn’t be able to increase their tax deductions accordingly…

Of course, New Hampshire makes full use of its parasitic relationship with ‘Taxachusetts’, but there’s only so much they can extract from us Massholes. I cannot count the number of proud Live-Free-or-Die-Trying ‘refugees’ who have bragged to me about their low-state-tax status, only to turn around and bemoan their outrageous property taxes. Not infrequently while complaining that they *personally* don’t send their kids to public schools or drive any further north than Nashua, so why should *they* have to pay for other peoples’ benefits?

Which is why I have damned little sympathy with the bold counterintuitive author of this op-ed — “You’re losing a major tax deduction this year. Stop complaining about it.”

… Many Democratic voters in high-tax states cried foul when the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act capped these deductions at $10,000 from 2018 onward, and some are trying to fight back. “We’re attempting to come up with ways to negate and blunt the harsh and unfair Republican tax policy,” Kevin de León, the Democratic leader of the California Senate, told CNBC. Several states are devising schemes to allow residents to pay some of their state tax liability as a gift to a charitable fund rather than directly to the state government, restoring its deductibility.

Such efforts are misguided. The overall tax bill may be a disaster, but nixing those deductions was the progressive thing to do. Liberals should train their ire elsewhere.

Simply put: If I choose to live in a high-tax state, why should that reduce my obligation to a poor family in Arkansas or a veteran in Nebraska? Local taxes pay for amenities like good schools, clean streets and social services that make my community better for me and my kids. They are the most self-serving of all the taxes I pay. And deducting them means sending dollars back to my community that wouldn’t be available for anyone else. The old deduction says: I look after my own and leave others to fend for themselves…

I would have more sympathy for this argument if “my” tax dollars were actually routed to poor Arkansans or Nebraskan veterans, and not skimmed by a small cadre of oligarchs (local and national, hi Mr. Koch!) at the top of those states’ food chains. Keeping in mind that every wingnut cultist and xenophobe demands LOCAL CONTROL OF OUR SKOOLS, for fear their spawn-property might be exposed to ideas like evolution, sex education, and the real story behind the Civil War under a national curriculum.

Speaking of the willfully ignorant, there’s that number again:

This is big. The GOP tax bill is now even less popular; only 27% think it's a good idea. Most people foresee higher deficits and most benefits going to the wealthy and corporations. https://t.co/VoaZsBWpRO

— Topher Spiro (@TopherSpiro) April 17, 2018

It was really for just a tiny constituency: Repub megadonors who weren’t going to write any checks unless the Repubs cut their taxes. Since we’ve stopped seeing stories about a donor strike, it appears the bill achieved what it was intended to achieve. https://t.co/OhoR8VTsuj

— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) April 17, 2018

And, to the surprise of no one…

Trump hasn’t filed his 2017 taxes yet.

He “filed an extension … as do many Americans with complex returns. He will file his tax return by the extension deadline of October 15, 2018,” Sarah Huckabee Sanders says.

— Jennifer Jacobs (@JenniferJJacobs) April 17, 2018


Suuuuure he will, Say-rah…

On Tax Day, recall that Trump still hasn't released his tax returns, unlike every president before him for 40 years. https://t.co/KhnSBM5Une

— Kevin M. Kruse (@KevinMKruse) April 15, 2018

And while we’re bringing up past history…

Show of hands. How many people did their taxes on a postcard? https://t.co/hBBxugKo3x

— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) April 17, 2018

.@IvankaTrump: "I'm really looking forward to doing a lot of traveling in April when people realize the effect that this has… The vast majority will be [doing their taxes] on a single postcard." pic.twitter.com/D2bB7WgPIL

— Fox News (@FoxNews) December 21, 2017

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Reader Interactions

92Comments

  1. 1.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 18, 2018 at 11:09 pm

    What 21st-century sitcom will be our next My Mother the Car? A series who, even just ten years from now, will be mentioned offhand or semi-frequently in a comedy series and the audience reaction is “bullshit. Nobody would’ve allowed on the air a premise that fucking stupid?”

    My choices are Caveman and Dog With A Blog.

  2. 2.

    dmsilev

    April 18, 2018 at 11:10 pm

    Rhetorical question: Does Trump (either father or daughter) understand that the tax returns being filed this week have nothing to do with the Tax “Cut” bill, seeing as that pertains to 2018 and following years?

  3. 3.

    Mike J

    April 18, 2018 at 11:12 pm

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): At least Dog with a Blog was a children’s show. It’s supposed to be dumb.

    Never heard of Caveman.

  4. 4.

    vhh

    April 18, 2018 at 11:20 pm

    @dmsilev: I strongly doubt that Donald or any of his spawn or their partners has ever done anything with a Form 1040 other than sign it where the accountant put an X, despite having been “employed” in the family business(es) since they could walk.

  5. 5.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 18, 2018 at 11:20 pm

    To be fair I feel like if you poll any question about taxes this time of year, even a made-up bill (or one that hasn’t really kicked in visibly for you), you’d get pretty shitty numbers.

  6. 6.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 18, 2018 at 11:26 pm

    @Mike J: For a kid’s show it was especially bad, even more so for one aimed at tweens. Nick’s major live-action comedy shows (up to and including iCarly), and Disney’s up to 2010, could also be/frequently were pretty dumb, but as a rule those were generally written well enough that they could serve as guilty pleasures for adults.

    The creative process for Dog With A Blog seems to have started and ended with creating the title.

    (Cavemen was that ABC sitcom about the Geico cavemen that lasted seven episodes in 2007 before getting canceled).

  7. 7.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 18, 2018 at 11:27 pm

    @dmsilev: No, of course not.

  8. 8.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 18, 2018 at 11:27 pm

    new NBC/WSJ Poll on tax-cut:

    mostly positive effects: 39%

    That’s still too high.

  9. 9.

    lumpkin

    April 18, 2018 at 11:28 pm

    >>>the average taxpayer deducted more than $10,000 in state and local taxes, according to a report released this week by the Pew Charitable Trusts. <<<
    Either the pew people or the "journalist" doesn't have the slightest clue about statistics or even the meaning of "average" in this context. When you are talking about specific numbers it's nonsensical to apply them to "average tax payers". I guarantee you that some typical, average Jane or Joe did got deduct anywhere near $10,000. This is probably the average of all deductions but as we all know, when it comes to money, averages are drastically skewed by the drastic inequality in this country. I think the NY legislature is trying to protect mostly the rich people who support the gop. I say fuck 'em. They brought this on themselves.
    No doubt averages are being used here, like they frequently are, to hide the fact that this is a rich people problem by making it look like it affects many more people than it actually does.

  10. 10.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 18, 2018 at 11:32 pm

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): I’ve at least heard of Dog with a Blog but yeah, kids’ show. I’m pretty unplugged from network sitcoms but I can’t think of a contender.

    @lumpkin:

    No doubt averages are being used here, like they frequently are, to hide the fact that this is a rich people problem by making it look like it affects many more people than it actually does.

    I’m assuming averages are being used because journalists are by and large ignorant of statistics.

  11. 11.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 18, 2018 at 11:34 pm

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):

    Nick’s major live-action comedy shows (up to and including iCarly), and Disney’s up to 2010, could also be/frequently were pretty dumb, but as a rule those were generally written well enough to be guilty pleasures for adults.

    Drake and Josh was good. Those two actors were “The Amanda Show” alums. After that, those live-action shows on Nick went down hill imo. iCarly always sucked. It taught so many bad morals and the characters were annoying/unfunny. Characters also often got away with doing awful stuff.

    In fact, most of Dan Schneider’s shows are terrible and follow the same formula/have similar archetypes.

  12. 12.

    joel hanes

    April 18, 2018 at 11:38 pm

    recall that Trump still hasn’t released his tax returns, unlike every president before him for 40 years

    but curiously like the junior Senator from Vermont

  13. 13.

    Yarrow

    April 18, 2018 at 11:38 pm

    Ugh. I’d forgotten just how much I dislike Ivanka until I saw her plasticized face on the screen. She is such an awful person. She’s high on my list of those I want to see in an orange jumpsuit.

  14. 14.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 18, 2018 at 11:41 pm

    Speaking of tv shows, you know what would make for a great show? One focusing on a Native American sheriff on a reservation that has to deal with supernatural goings on. I’d watch it.

  15. 15.

    oatler.

    April 18, 2018 at 11:43 pm

    Reax was one of those PBS Cajun recipes, ne’stpaw?

  16. 16.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 18, 2018 at 11:45 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: could be fraught. Many Native American communities don’t even publicly share their folklore/religions/supernatural beliefs, to say nothing of having them represented in fiction.

  17. 17.

    James Powell

    April 18, 2018 at 11:48 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    You mean something like Skinwalkers?

  18. 18.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 18, 2018 at 11:49 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Could also be a mystery show along the lines of Matlock or Murder, She Wrote.

    I think it would be really interesting to have a Native American protagonist, not to mention have a national venue to discuss issues facing them on reservations in an entertaining and thought-provoking way.

  19. 19.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 18, 2018 at 11:51 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: There’s also All That. I thought iCarly was…fine; I put the beginning of the decline at Victorious, which would make Schneider’s run at just even as a showrunner.

    But yeah, Drake and Josh is probably the best of the 2000s kid-coms*, with Even Stevens running a close second, and probably Wizards of Waverly Place at third (though That’s So Raven was my second-favorite.) Hannah Montana is probably the weakest of the major 2000s series.

    *I.e., aimed at ages 8-14 – sans that modifier Malcolm in the Middle winds hands down.

  20. 20.

    chopper

    April 18, 2018 at 11:53 pm

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):

    What 21st-century sitcom will be our next My Mother the Car?

    my mother the car was terrible, but it’s no cop rock.

  21. 21.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 18, 2018 at 11:55 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I agree, but the mythology (or to many of that community a practiced religion) is a touchy subject.

  22. 22.

    Mnemosyne

    April 19, 2018 at 12:00 am

    All right, hivemind — I’m doing a yard sale thing tomorrow and just realized that I will need to take electronic payments. I don’t have time to run out and buy a Square. Do I use Cash (by Square), PayPal, Venmo, or Google Pay?

  23. 23.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 19, 2018 at 12:01 am

    @chopper: My Mother the Car still has the dumber premise.

  24. 24.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 19, 2018 at 12:02 am

    @James Powell: Unfortunately they didn’t do all that well ratings wise. It didn’t help that Hillerman died after they adapted the second or third novel.

  25. 25.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 19, 2018 at 12:03 am

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
    Did you ever watch iDate a Bad Boy or iFight Shelby Marx? If you did you would know what I was talking about.

    In iDate a Bad Boy, the guy Carly was dating turned out to be into collecting Beanie Babies and she broke up with over it. He didn’t fit into her idea of what makes a “bad boy” a bad boy. She was shallow. And the show portrayed her as being right.

    ETA: How could I forget All That or Even Stevens? It launched Shia’s career.

  26. 26.

    AliceBlue

    April 19, 2018 at 12:03 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    Anyone else remember Nakia? Show from the mid-70s about a Native American sheriff’s deputy in New Mexico.

  27. 27.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 19, 2018 at 12:05 am

    @Mnemosyne: huh. They all require the other person having an account already right?

    In the Bay Area Venmo would be a safe bet.

  28. 28.

    Yutsano

    April 19, 2018 at 12:05 am

    @dmsilev: There’s a few deduction changes affecting this year but expecting anyone in that family to understand anything about taxes is ludicrous. They just give the mess to their accountants and move on.

  29. 29.

    Mnemosyne

    April 19, 2018 at 12:08 am

    @Major Major Major Major:

    PayPal doesn’t require the other person to have an account, but many people hate it with a fiery passion.

  30. 30.

    Mike J

    April 19, 2018 at 12:09 am

    Who likes orange soda?

  31. 31.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 19, 2018 at 12:10 am

    @Mnemosyne: venmo is a PayPal product.

    Didn’t know you could take PayPal payments from somebody without PayPal.

  32. 32.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 19, 2018 at 12:10 am

    @Major Major Major Major:
    I agree which is why if that were to delved into, it would need to be deeply researched along with the consultations of tribal leaders to get it right.

  33. 33.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 19, 2018 at 12:11 am

    @Mike J: My Dad. He died at age 63. We’re pretty sure it was the orange soda.

  34. 34.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 19, 2018 at 12:12 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Yes. I do remember liking the series at the time, but the unfortunate implications definitely complicate further rewatching.

    Speaking of, so far the only stuff that’s turned up about Schneider was the toe thing and him being an asshole boss (no details on the latter, though).

  35. 35.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 19, 2018 at 12:13 am

    @Adam L Silverman: What’d he die of?

  36. 36.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    April 19, 2018 at 12:13 am

    @Adam L Silverman: Uh oh, madame like orange soda.

  37. 37.

    Mnemosyne

    April 19, 2018 at 12:14 am

    @Major Major Major Major:

    So if I already have a PayPal account, I can hook it up to Venmo? That would be useful.

    Yes, someone with a credit card can send you money via PayPal without having to have a PayPal account of their own.

  38. 38.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 19, 2018 at 12:16 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: And the former led to Kenan & Kel and Kenan Thompson on SNL. Shia is still up for debate as a good OT bad thing, though.

  39. 39.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 19, 2018 at 12:18 am

    @Mnemosyne:

    So if I already have a PayPal account, I can hook it up to Venmo?

    I don’t actually know! Mine is hooked up to my checking account. I don’t sell things so this hasn’t really come up for me obviously. I just know Venmo is widely adopted in the Bay Area, might be similar down south.

  40. 40.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 19, 2018 at 12:22 am

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
    I remember hearing something about the foot thing. I think assholes online were spreading rumors of him being a pedophile IIRC.

  41. 41.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 19, 2018 at 12:24 am

    @Mike J: does everybody need to say orange?

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: yeah, I’m just saying that a lot of the material you would get flak for even mentioning, it would be hard to do, I would totally watch it too obviously.

  42. 42.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 19, 2018 at 12:26 am

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): End stage kidney disease/renal failure – cause indeterminate.

    My dad had high blood pressure, as in really high blood pressure, his entire adult life. He was also very obese. Between the harsh beta blockers for the high BP in the 70s combined with the high protein liquid diets they put him on in the late 70s/early 80s to try to get his weight down, his kidney’s were severely damaged over time. Then the dialysis caused/contributed to liver damage causing psuedo Nash Disease symptoms. In order for him to be transplanted, they would have had to do a kidney and a liver. The back up surgeon on the team who was overseeing his treatment voted no to consider him for a transplant as he’d never done a double and wasn’t going to risk his win-loss ratio. At that point it was just a matter of time. And a matter of time turned into a matter of months.

  43. 43.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 19, 2018 at 12:27 am

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
    Yeah, his role as Sam Witwicky in the Transformers franchise and that greaser kid in Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skulls haven’t earned him any favors.

    Speaking of Shia and Transformers I have to share this

  44. 44.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 19, 2018 at 12:28 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: He openly solicited images of younger fans’ toes over Twitter and was gushing on his teen actors’ toes over the same – in addition to it featuring often in his series. No proof of CSA yet (though 4chan helped with the rumors’ dissemination), but the toe thing is really fucking skeevy.

  45. 45.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 19, 2018 at 12:30 am

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): who is this?

  46. 46.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 19, 2018 at 12:31 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I liked him in Holes and at least the first Bayformers was serviceable. ROTF was terrible and Shia degenerated into self-parody soon after.

  47. 47.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 19, 2018 at 12:32 am

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
    That’s fucking disgusting.

    @Major Major Major Major:
    This guy

  48. 48.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 19, 2018 at 12:33 am

    @Major Major Major Major: Never mind

  49. 49.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 19, 2018 at 12:34 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): was worried it was Shia for a second.

  50. 50.

    khead

    April 19, 2018 at 12:34 am

    Either the pew people or the “journalist” doesn’t have the slightest clue about statistics or even the meaning of “average” in this context. When you are talking about specific numbers it’s nonsensical to apply them to “average tax payers”. I guarantee you that some typical, average Jane or Joe did got deduct anywhere near $10,000. This is probably the average of all deductions but as we all know, when it comes to money, averages are drastically skewed by the drastic inequality in this country. I think the NY legislature is trying to protect mostly the rich people who support the gop. I say fuck ’em. They brought this on themselves.

    You might be surprised at how many folks in the mid-atlantic to NE who are gonna take a hit. Also, even though my name is not Joe I am pretty average. Below average even.

  51. 51.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 19, 2018 at 12:37 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I say we shift attention to evaluating the Disney sitcoms discussed above.

  52. 52.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 19, 2018 at 12:40 am

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
    Damn right ROTF was terrible. The CGI has not aged well in the near ten years it’s been released. And I never liked the objectification of Megan Fox. (What has she done this decade anyway?) And Holes was good, the book and the movie.

  53. 53.

    MobiusKlein

    April 19, 2018 at 12:40 am

    Does anybody recall the media
    FREAKOUT
    when the Obamacare website was having issues during rollout?

    Now, crickets.

    DC is wired for Republicans

  54. 54.

    frosty

    April 19, 2018 at 12:40 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    … wasn’t going to risk his win-loss ratio.

    Nice. There’s a medical principle I hadn’t considered before. First, do no harm. Second, keep your stats up.

  55. 55.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 19, 2018 at 12:45 am

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Never really watched the Disney sitcoms. I was too busy at the time watching cartoons. I’ll always regret being too young at the time to fully appreciate when Toonami was on the air.

  56. 56.

    Mnemosyne

    April 19, 2018 at 12:48 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    High blood pressure will damage your kidneys all on its own — that’s one of the main reasons African-Americans are more likely to develop kidney problems and end up on dialysis.

  57. 57.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 19, 2018 at 12:49 am

    @frosty: According to my Mom, my Dad literally told the transplant team “should I just go home and kill myself then?” None of them said anything and they just shuffled out. My Dad had done everything they asked. He’d lost the weight they asked. He was zealous about the dialysis. Whatever they told him he had to do to qualify for the transplant, he did. Then when he hit the goals they moved the playing field.

    It was what it was.

  58. 58.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 19, 2018 at 12:50 am

    @Mnemosyne: I’m very aware.

  59. 59.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 19, 2018 at 12:52 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I watched both about equally. I actually started watching Toonami once it came on – was a regular viewer of the Funimation DBZ dub, Sailor Moon, and Mobile Gundam Wing, and I also peeped Hamtaro and The Big O.

    Mind you, the late 2000s were also when Canadian animation started to fall the fuck off, so.

  60. 60.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 19, 2018 at 1:04 am

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
    Oh Lordy, Hamtaro and the original Funi Dub of DBZ. I’ll never forget the soundtrack. Literally the best thing about that dub.

  61. 61.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 19, 2018 at 1:13 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I think the original DBZ dub that aired was Ocean Group. By “original Funi” dub I meant the one that shares 95% of the voice casting with DBZ Kai and Dragon Ball Super. I never saw the Ocean Dub (re. the one with Drummond’s high-pitched Vegeta) air on TV; probably the only roles I definitely prefer from Ocean is David Kaye as Recoome.

    Though yes, Bruce Faulconer’s soundtrack is fucking awesome.

  62. 62.

    Yutsano

    April 19, 2018 at 1:14 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I have met the voice actress who did the English dub for Hamtaro. She’s an absolute delight. Fun fact: she was born in Italy and is bilingual.

  63. 63.

    Anne Laurie

    April 19, 2018 at 1:21 am

    @MobiusKlein: I’m surprised it took so long to come up — deliberately didn’t mention it myself, to give you guys an easy comment!

  64. 64.

    Anne Laurie

    April 19, 2018 at 1:23 am

    @Adam L Silverman: Ugh. My condolences for your loss.

  65. 65.

    Mnemosyne

    April 19, 2018 at 1:26 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    My dad did everybing he needed to do for a transplant, too. Then they found the small tumor on his lung. It was easily dealt with through radiation, but it meant that he was off the transplant list since the anti-rejection drugs would only encourage any lingering cancer cells to come roaring back.

    There were five contributing causes listed on his death certificate, but every single one of them was smoking-related. Kids, don’t smoke. ?

  66. 66.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 19, 2018 at 1:27 am

    @Anne Laurie: Thanks. It was in 2003, so a long time ago now.

  67. 67.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 19, 2018 at 1:29 am

    @Mnemosyne:

    Kids, don’t smoke.

    I only buy smokeless kids these days!//

  68. 68.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 19, 2018 at 1:30 am

    @Mnemosyne: Tracking. It is what it is.

  69. 69.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 19, 2018 at 1:31 am

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
    That’s the dub I was talking about too. The dub started off rocky but really came into its own by the Cell Saga and especially the Buu Saga. Funimation had by that point gotten enough experience at doing their own dubbing. They don’t do soundtrack replacing anymore with their shows which in a way is a shame. However, DBGT was the exception.

    The Ocean dub’s voices were actually imitated by the Funi voice actors. It borrowed a lot of soundtrack from the 90s Megaman cartoon. Also, Goku in late Ocean dub sounds like Sonic the Hedgehog.

  70. 70.

    Ruckus

    April 19, 2018 at 1:34 am

    @dmsilev:
    I know you said rhetorical but I still have to say, it’s not just that they are pig ignorant (sorry pigs!) but they take pride in their fucking ignorance. They don’t/can’t even make a simple attempt to even seem to have an IQ above 60. I’ve known grown men with 4th grade educations that were far smarter than every adult in this family. Singly or as a group. They beat everyone in this family in that they knew they didn’t know a lot of things and were more than willing, they were eager to learn.

  71. 71.

    Mnemosyne

    April 19, 2018 at 1:38 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    If you say it was in the firat week of January, I may be a little weirded out. 2013 for us, so 10 years later.

  72. 72.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 19, 2018 at 1:41 am

    @Mnemosyne: 19 DEC 2003.

  73. 73.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 19, 2018 at 1:42 am

    @Yutsano:
    That’s cool. I only watched bits and pieces of it when it aired here in the early 2000s. My attention span back then just wouldn’t let me watch something week to week like I can now ?

  74. 74.

    Ruckus

    April 19, 2018 at 1:43 am

    @Mnemosyne:
    I’d say PayPal.
    I’ve used it to pay others and to receive money and it works fine. I don’t get the hate but then I have a solar flare intense dislike of Charter Communications to make up for my not giving a damn about PayPal.

  75. 75.

    J R in WV

    April 19, 2018 at 1:47 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Years ago I went with wife to an industry awards banquet where her outfit presented awards to members who used their service and did their jobs well. It was at a really nice state park. As was my tradition, I went to the dinner and socialized, the food was always good, the bar was open, then when the boring awards ceremony began, I snuck back to our room to watch TV, while Wife partied with her industry coworkers.

    About 11 pm I got queasy, and by 1 am I was emptying out at both ends. Turns out about 1/3 of attendees at the dinner got it, whatever it was, and it wasn’t related to your food, but to a stack of plates or forks that someone must have sneezed on, or handled with dirty hands.

    Why this is related, after a terrible night, we checked out of the hotel the next morning to drive home. I was leaning on the passenger door, drowsing off, and being glad the emptying process was over when Wife stopped for gas. She went in to pay, and came back with a pepperloni roll and an orange pop. I was OK when she opened the roll to eat, but when she opened that orange pop, I had to roll the window down and stick my head out into the very cool air.

    The smell of that orange pop blew me away it was so horrible. Nothing I had the night before was orange pop related so it is a mystery to me. I can’t abide being close to one yet today 25 years later on!

  76. 76.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 19, 2018 at 1:49 am

    @J R in WV: We’ll update your file: no orange pop for JR in WV. Are you okay with grape or strawberry? How about lemon-lime?

  77. 77.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 19, 2018 at 1:54 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I think the Sonic-sounding Goku is Kelamis, who was the weakest of the Ocean dub Gokus – he seems to have gotten better later in the dubs, though. After Schemmel, Ian Corlett (the voice of Cheetor) was easily the second-best Goku; the Blue Water voices aren’t very good, and the AB Groupe/Big Green dub Goku is fucking horrible.

    The Internet tells me that the initial Funimation run picked up where the Saban dub left off, after the Ginyu Force – so the Saiyan Saga and up until Frieza aren’t the FUNi in-House team but the Ocean Group. Also too, the TV and album versions of the DBZ theme are distinctly different.

  78. 78.

    J R in WV

    April 19, 2018 at 2:01 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Sorry to hear about your dad. That surgeon obviously became a Dr to make money, as opposed to help people. There are funny wrinkles in the medicine business. My dad got into a clinical trial in M D Anderson Cancer Center, and the drug worked for him !! Hurray, right?

    Well, a couple of years later all the Drs gave him the OK to go home to WV ofer the summer of Houston, he hated that damp heat, and no one can blame him, it’s horrible to people raised in a low humidity place like the WV mountains. Soon after getting home, he got dizzy and fell, because the air in WV is 2500 feet up and thinner, and he broke his leg and needed a hip transplant.

    No rehab center would accept him because he was on a trial drug !! We should have bit the bullet right then, hired an air ambulance with a nurse and O2 and sent him to M D Anderson.

    Because no one told us that if he ran out of the magic pills he was out of the trial, and they wouldn’t send him a bottle on the pills, he had to be there to get them. So death sentence from stupid.

    Just like your dad in a different flavor. How can people who are so smart about hard things be so stupid about ordinary things. Why didn’t they tell us to bring Dad back to M D Anderson ASAP?

    Why didn’t your dad’s surgeon find another Doctor? Shitheads!

  79. 79.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 19, 2018 at 2:09 am

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Too late to edit, but I see what you mean by the initial FUNi dub being rocky – Sabat’s Vegeta actively apes Drummond’s, but at point sounds stuck between Drummond’s cackle and Sabat’s later Brahmin voice.

    Also, none of the Vegetas sound like each other, so Sabat and Drummond’s renditions are the best by a country goddamned mile. (Roger Rhoades might be closest; Milton James and the Big Green dubs, as expected, sound fucking horrible).

  80. 80.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 19, 2018 at 2:12 am

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
    Kalemis isn’t a bad voice actor (CN fans may know him as the VA of Rolf from Ed, Edd, n Eddy) and his Goku voice isn’t that bad by itself. Just not what I’m used to. And from seeing YT clips I really liked what Ocean did with Vegito’s voice.

    The Big Green dub is horrible period, but in a funny way.

    “Let that child alone!”

    “BWAH! It’s Big Green!”

    The Japanese VA for Goku hasn’t aged well in DBS. Goku sounds like an 80 year old woman. And i watched a clip online she did 20 years ago and doesn’t sound nearly as bad. Thank god for dubs.

  81. 81.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 19, 2018 at 2:17 am

    @J R in WV: Sorry to read that.

    As to your question:

    Why didn’t your dad’s surgeon find another Doctor? Shitheads!

    It doesn’t work like that for these transplant teams. In the case of renal issues, their practices also control the dialysis centers. Each team has a primary and backup surgeon. In the case of my Dad his nephrologist was also the primary surgeon. The backup is only on the team in case a compatible donor organ becomes available while the primary is unavailable (on vacation, ill). Everyone on the team, including the primary and the backup surgeon, have to agree to advance a patient to candidacy for a transplant. Everyone on the team handling my Dad voted yes but the backup.

  82. 82.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 19, 2018 at 2:20 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I love Ed, Edd n Eddy (and recognize the Ocean Group actors there as well, as well as the quite-excellent Beast-Era Transformers and the significantly-less-so Unicron Trilogy – Energon is easily the worst of any of those installments). I don’t think he’s a bad voice actor by any means either…but even compared to Drummond’s Vegeta, which I don’t think I’ll ever get used to – Peter’s Goku just doesn’t click with me at all.

    I wish Manga Entertainment had finished dubbing all the episodes of the original Fist of the North Star, or at the very least released Reinforced Records’ score as a separate soundtrack.

  83. 83.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 19, 2018 at 2:31 am

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
    Agreed. He’s not a good fit for Goku. I’d pay good money to have Kalemis read Goku’s lines in Rolf’s voice though.

    Never watched Fist of the North Star but have heard a great deal about it.

  84. 84.

    Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)

    April 19, 2018 at 2:40 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: The movie – created by Toei and dubbed by Streamline – came out in 1986 and features John Wickery and Michael McConnohie as Kenshiro & Shin; the remaster has inexplicable issues where the ultraviolent scenes are inexplicably of much lower quality than any of the other visuals. The Manga dub – which stars Lex Lang as Kenshiro and Steve Blum as Shin (and controversially, Daran Norris as Rei) – was aired in 1999 and is of the first 36 episodes.

    ETA: Looping back around to this, I would do the same to have Matt Hill voice TF: Energon Ironhide as Ed (which truth be told, he was already 75% of the way there).

  85. 85.

    Aleta

    April 19, 2018 at 2:50 am

    @Mnemosyne: My wonderful friend had genetic kidney disease, and had received one kidney from a friend, so she’d had some years of immune suppression. Eventually she needed a liver transplant and ideally another kidney. More than one of us wanted to donate some liver, but right around that time they stopped letting healthy people give part of their liver away, after a few donor complications had shown it could be risky for a donor. So then she was also waiting for a liver, but before that came along, her heart valve had weakened. She had to put off the heart surgery until after the transplant. She was under 50, but after all this juggling, she wasn’t high enough up to receive anything right away. One day the call came saying her number had come up for an available liver, and there might be a kidney too. She and her spouse were so excited. But as she packed a bag, her heart valve gave out, maybe from the excitement, he said. She was very talented and also had an acupuncture practice that helped many others with health issues.

  86. 86.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    April 19, 2018 at 2:58 am

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
    Haha! “Buttered Toast!”

    It was great talking to you. But I need sleep right now. Don’t be a stranger and come back, dude.

  87. 87.

    Kathleen

    April 19, 2018 at 4:18 am

    @MobiusKlein: I was thinking the same thing.

  88. 88.

    Cermet

    April 19, 2018 at 5:21 am

    With my raise and near zero refund the previous year, I thought I’d pay this year so I held off filing until near the dead line; however, I didn’t realize that the IRS, for reasons I can’t fathom, increased my with holding by over 50%! Insane how much extra they kept and I never changed any of my deductions. There should be both a major penalty and IRS level interest deducted from them for that travesty.

    So sorry about your friend, Aleta.

  89. 89.

    trnc

    April 19, 2018 at 6:53 am

    Trump hasn’t filed his 2017 taxes yet.

    He “filed an extension … as do many Americans with complex returns. He will file his tax return by the extension deadline of October 15, 2018,” Sarah Huckabee Sanders says.

    other than the fact that DT didn’t put his finances into a blind trust like he was supposed to, why would his taxes be any more complicated than either of the Bushes? Not sure, but I bet both of them filed on time every year they were in office.

  90. 90.

    John S.

    April 19, 2018 at 6:53 am

    @Ruckus:

    It costs an arm and a leg for the payee to accept Paypal when the payer uses a credit card. That’s a big part of the hate.

  91. 91.

    Seanly

    April 19, 2018 at 11:20 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    The TV show Longmire followed the titular sheriff of fictional Absaroka County, Wyoming. While the character is white, Native American actors and culture were featured heavily in the show. In general, the show got good marks for having a decent take on Native American issues and people (they did have a Native American consultant). The series ran on A&E for the first three seasons and then had 3 more seasons on Netflix.

  92. 92.

    JAFD

    April 19, 2018 at 12:13 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: My condolences on your father. Tough to lose someone that important in your life, at that young age, it is.
    Still, you and the young jackals here are making me feel old this morn (cold damp April here in NJ – I need a stretch of warmth and sunshine, bake winter’s rust and mildew out of my bones…). I remember when the first organ transplants were announced by Walter Cronkite, day by day condition reports on the patient, “Pushing Back The Frontiers of Medicine…”
    And those of us with oddball hobbies, who wanted to make a purchase from or sale to Merrie Olde in a sum of two digits, bucks or quid, found procedure for acquiring bank drafts or cashing overseas checks More Trouble Than It Was Worth…
    Anyway, yours truly has two checking accounts. One gets my SocSec directdeposited therein, and I write paper checks for rent and cable, food, etc. One gets random inputs of cash, is connected to PayPal, makes frivolous acquisitions over Internet.
    Hope that the sun shines upon you today.

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