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Second rate reporter says what?

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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Because of wow. / Open Thread: Gauntlet, Thrown!

Open Thread: Gauntlet, Thrown!

by Anne Laurie|  November 17, 20188:36 am| 116 Comments

This post is in: Because of wow., I'm With Her, NANCY SMASH!, Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat, Voting Rights, All we want is life beyond the thunderdome

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This is what we need! Democrats fighting for our rights! pic.twitter.com/KE4t4V8iAW

— Occupy Democrats (@OccupyDemocrats) November 16, 2018

If it were to become law, the bill would:

1. Establish automatic voter registration

2. Reinvigorate the Voting Rights Act (gutted by SCOTUS in 2013)

3. End partisan gerrymandering in favor of an independent redistricting commission@highbrow_nobrow https://t.co/iu4iQsCKGz

— Cheri Jacobus (@CheriJacobus) November 16, 2018

Of course the Repubs will do their best to strangle this vital young bill, but — at the very least, we’ll get them on the record, and let them defend their stance in the 2020 campaigns.

And not coincidentally, doesn’t this make the #FiveWhiteGuys and their fellow anti-Pelosi ratfvckers look like the two-bit schemers they are?

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Reader Interactions

116Comments

  1. 1.

    Elizabelle

    November 17, 2018 at 8:40 am

    I love Nancy Smash. May she be Speaker, and persist.

  2. 2.

    Josie

    November 17, 2018 at 8:42 am

    Perfect, in every way.

  3. 3.

    germy

    November 17, 2018 at 8:44 am

    I’m with Nancy.

    In other news…

    In case you're wondering how @amazon is pitching in to help Californians – the price of an air filter jumped about 35 bucks in two hours.— Radio Angie ? (@AngieCoiro) November 17, 2018

  4. 4.

    Betty

    November 17, 2018 at 8:44 am

    I hope this gets lots of coverage after the shameful events in Georgia and Florida. Absolutely essential to democracy.

  5. 5.

    NotMax

    November 17, 2018 at 8:46 am

    Good kabuki is still kabuki.

  6. 6.

    germy

    November 17, 2018 at 8:47 am

    Activists distributing masks to farm laborers in smoky areas are receiving hostile treatment and even being blocked by local managers. Some theorize that managers don't want activists to encourage workers to protest for better labor conditions. @jherrerack https://t.co/nxa00hXsM8— Pacific Standard (@PacificStand) November 17, 2018

  7. 7.

    debbie

    November 17, 2018 at 8:47 am

    Go, Nancy, go! Whine, Tim, whine!

  8. 8.

    Quinerly

    November 17, 2018 at 8:56 am

    Poco requested that this be reposted. Mom was late to previous dying thread.
    Poco gives sausage scented wrapping paper 4 paws up (and falls over on a very startled John Lennon, fearless rescue kitty). Pork products make Poco clumsy, but I digress.
    https://www.foodbeast.com/news/jimmy-dean-sausage-scented-wrapping-paper/?utm_source=partnerships&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=thrillist

  9. 9.

    germy

    November 17, 2018 at 9:00 am

    Weird how more than a week after a Democratic wave electing tons of women and further diversifying our government, the mainstream media isn’t giving us lavish profiles of Democratic voters who rejected the GOP and Trump.

    Where are our heartland diner stories? Our profiles of surging voters who “upset the status quo” with “maverick politicians”? How come voters in blue states that got bluer and purple states that went blue and red districts that flipped aren’t getting the Trump voter treatment?

    It would make one think that gosh, this whole thing about the media being liberal is bullshit, and that the mainstream media caters to Republican whims while minimizing the rest of us no matter the political power we display.

    – Oliver Willis

  10. 10.

    japa21

    November 17, 2018 at 9:01 am

    Of course the Repubs will do their best to strangle this vital young bill, but — at the very least, we’ll get them on the record, and let them defend their stance in the 2020 campaigns.

    Put them all on the record and hang them with it in 2020.

  11. 11.

    germy

    November 17, 2018 at 9:02 am

    Can't wait until Pelosi is sworn in and she replaces all cops with Antifa, institutes Sharia, bans men and converts us to full communism. I mean that's what Trump and all those GOP ads said a Democratic majority would do right? The media says they don't lie, so… pic.twitter.com/5vF8B79iGL— Oliver Willis (@owillis) November 17, 2018

  12. 12.

    Platonailedit

    November 17, 2018 at 9:05 am

    Advice from ‘occupy democrats’? Really, AL?

  13. 13.

    MomSense

    November 17, 2018 at 9:06 am

    @Betty:

    Whatever happened to all those absentee ballots that were stranded in the postal facility? Were they ever counted?

    Also did I hear correctly that the deadline for receipt of the mail in ballots (many from troops overseas) was the day after the deadline for counting ballots? It sounded so fucked up that it seemed plausible for Rick Scott’s Florida.

  14. 14.

    germy

    November 17, 2018 at 9:06 am

    you literally had a speaker who was a child molester and the dominant narrative is "Democrats must distance themselves from Pelosi?" are you kidding?— Oliver Willis (@owillis) November 16, 2018

  15. 15.

    Baud

    November 17, 2018 at 9:07 am

    @NotMax: This. Dems are doing what they have always done. Trump has simply forced people to pay attention.

  16. 16.

    Wag

    November 17, 2018 at 9:09 am

    @NotMax:

    Good kabuki is still kabuki.

    And good kabuki is still good.

  17. 17.

    lamh36

    November 17, 2018 at 9:10 am

    Good morning BJ.

    Great photo from Rep-Elect Ayanna Presseley

    @AyannaPressley
    Because of her.
    https://twitter.com/ayannapressley/status/1063457917960110080?s=21

  18. 18.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 17, 2018 at 9:12 am

    @germy: If the child-molesting Speaker of the House had been a Democrat, that would be a staple of both punditry and political advertising for 50 years. Somehow Hastert, human being with no redeeming value whatsoever, got to just sort of slowly fade into oblivion even while “Democrats still struggle with how to handle abortion because they didn’t let pro-lifer Bob Casey speak at the convention!” still gets trotted out semi-regularly.

  19. 19.

    Baud

    November 17, 2018 at 9:13 am

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Chappaquiddick!

  20. 20.

    p.a.

    November 17, 2018 at 9:13 am

    Donnie answered Mueller’s questions all by his wittle self. Gotta give him props for that: not easy finding blue-black Crayolas.

  21. 21.

    MattF

    November 17, 2018 at 9:18 am

    Speaking of Nancy Pelosi… Here’s a WaPo column by Donna Edwards, who, over the years, changed her mind (from anti- to pro-) about Pelosi. Edifying, although for the rest of us, it seems easier to start out on the correct side.

  22. 22.

    Betty Cracker

    November 17, 2018 at 9:20 am

    @MomSense: I stopped following it closely after it became clear yesterday that the recounts weren’t going to change anything, so I’m not sure of the current status. A goat rodeo as usual.

  23. 23.

    Wapiti

    November 17, 2018 at 9:22 am

    I read earlier this week where McConnell was asking the Democrat House to work with the Republican Senate. Reinstating the Voting Rights Act seems like a wonderful test case to see if McConnell actually will work with the Dems for things that matter to all Americans or if he’s going to expect a one-sided deal. Go Nancy Smash!

  24. 24.

    Betty Cracker

    November 17, 2018 at 9:23 am

    Do y’all think the opposition to Pelosi has a serious chance of taking her out as leader? The other day when Pelosi said she had the votes, I assumed that meant she was a lock. I mean, we know the woman can count votes and twist arms, even in the face of daunting odds. But the media is going on as if there’s a real chance Pelosi will be sidelined. Are they just being drama llamas on the “Dems in Disarray” narrative as usual, or is there a serious threat to Pelosi as leader?

  25. 25.

    MattF

    November 17, 2018 at 9:23 am

    @Wapiti: Expect McConnell to renege. He’s a snake.

  26. 26.

    MattF

    November 17, 2018 at 9:25 am

    @Betty Cracker: My guess is that Pelosi is out there right now, drumming up votes. I wouldn’t bet against her.

  27. 27.

    OzarkHillbilly

    November 17, 2018 at 9:29 am

    @Betty Cracker: The question every DEM needs to ask is “If not Nancy, who?” I suspect they are all asking.

  28. 28.

    lamh36

    November 17, 2018 at 9:30 am

    It’s is one of the many reasons I love Viola Davis!!

    I’m with Viola…FUQ a cleanse…I just can’t do em

    Viola Davis Failed a 28-Day Cleanse in Two Days in a Spectacular Way https://youtu.be/y-zocTBMgq0 via @YouTube

  29. 29.

    pluky

    November 17, 2018 at 9:34 am

    @Betty Cracker: Nope. Those agitating for her ouster are missing one critical ingredient from their secret sauce — a credible challenger for the position. Sound and fury signifying nothing indeed.

  30. 30.

    Gelfling 545

    November 17, 2018 at 9:36 am

    @p.a.: Who will translate his responses into English? Does Mueller have fluent gibberish speakers on his staff?

  31. 31.

    MattF

    November 17, 2018 at 9:37 am

    @Gelfling 545: “Anyone here speak ‘Liar’?”

  32. 32.

    Mai Naem mobile

    November 17, 2018 at 9:37 am

    @Betty Cracker: Jim Manley who seems to be on the money on a lot of Congressional stuff had a tweet implying that Pelosi did not have the votes. Keep in mind though that this tweet was several days ago.

  33. 33.

    dr. bloor

    November 17, 2018 at 9:39 am

    And not coincidentally, doesn’t this make the #FiveWhiteGuys and their fellow anti-Pelosi ratfvckers look like the two-bit schemers they are?

    Not that they needed any help in that regard.

  34. 34.

    OzarkHillbilly

    November 17, 2018 at 9:40 am

    @Gelfling 545: Giuliani. Not that that will help.

  35. 35.

    Baud

    November 17, 2018 at 9:40 am

    If Pelosi is somehow tossed, I hope her replacement is a conservative white male Dem. We would deserve it.

  36. 36.

    Elizabelle

    November 17, 2018 at 9:43 am

    @Baud: No we would not.

    I will be so disgusted with Dems if they don’t support her. Grow the fuck up, Dems. (I realize my own Congresswoman-elect is on the “no Pelosi” bandwagon. Only thing I did not like about her ideas.)

    @ Betty: I hope it’s just the media, which is wired for Republicans and clickbait.

  37. 37.

    Gelfling 545

    November 17, 2018 at 9:45 am

    @Betty Cracker: I emailed my Congresscritter Brian Higgins yesterday to tell him to essentially pull his head out of his butt and support Pelosi. He had been making anti Pelosi noises during the campaign. I have no idea why. If he thought HE was a possible candidate, he is severely delusional. He’s generally ok but not exactly what one might call leaderhip material. Just – at least formerly – a solid back bencher. He gave me a sense that he was spinning like a weathervane during the campaign and I let him know that to get my vote this was NOT OK.

  38. 38.

    Schlemazel

    November 17, 2018 at 9:45 am

    @MattF:
    “Excuse me stewardess, I speak gibberish”
    – Barbra Billingsley

  39. 39.

    Mai Naem mobile

    November 17, 2018 at 9:48 am

    We elected a Democrat for Secretary of State in Arizona. It was a very close race. The elections officer in Maricopa County iby far the largest county in Arizona is also a Democrat. I am glad about the Secretary of State because the Republican candidate was going to pull some of the same stuff Brian Kemp pulled in Georgia.

  40. 40.

    Schlemazel

    November 17, 2018 at 9:51 am

    In addition to restoring the voting rights act we need a ‘voting security act’
    require paper ballots that can be human recounted
    require a minimum number of voting ballots & working machines per register voter per precinct
    Set a maximum distance polling places can be from the center of their precinct (based on population density – rural area would have greater distances)

    I am probably missing something but I have not had coffee yet

  41. 41.

    SFAW

    November 17, 2018 at 9:53 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Do y’all think the opposition to Pelosi has a serious chance of taking her out as leader?

    Unfortunately, yes. Better than 50 percent? Probably not. The anti-Pelosi motherfuckers seem to be gaining a couple more waverers. I hope some of them come to their senses. I don’t expect Ryan, Moulton, or Steve “If I thought I could get elected in Southie as a Republican, that’s what I’d be” Lynch to change. I was disappointed to see Spanberger make her “announcement,” too.

    I’m really hoping Nancy Smash can pull through, because she needs to be spending time on the legislative agenda, not dealing with moron Fifth Columnists in her own party.

    It’s ironic that the barely-competent Schumer is facing no serious challenger, but the outstandingly competent Pelosi has quasi-Rethug assholes trying to take her down. I wonder why that would be? I’n sure it will come to me.

  42. 42.

    SFAW

    November 17, 2018 at 9:54 am

    @Elizabelle:

    I will be so disgusted with Dems if they don’t support her. Grow the fuck up, Dems.

    Seconded

  43. 43.

    Spanky

    November 17, 2018 at 9:54 am

    Opinion piece in the WaPo by Donna Edwards, telling the new Dems not to blow their choice of the next Speaker. Spoiler alert – very pro-Nancy.

  44. 44.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 17, 2018 at 10:00 am

    @Schlemazel: Precinct 2807 in Providence has 14 registered voters, one of whom cast a ballot there on November 6, just as the poll supervisor was shutting down the machine. Just a mildly interesting little story about blue-state voting.

    That voter also cast a straight-ticket D ballot.

  45. 45.

    Baud

    November 17, 2018 at 10:06 am

    @Elizabelle: If we are going to choose to be governed by their culture, why stop halfway?

  46. 46.

    A Ghost To Most

    November 17, 2018 at 10:08 am

    Paul Butler on AM Joy said there are currently 36 sealed indictments in DC (?) District court; 18 were filed in August.

    Butler surmises it was Mueller getting his bases covered before the quiet period.

  47. 47.

    Amir Khalid

    November 17, 2018 at 10:09 am

    @Wapiti:
    Note: McConnell wants the Democratic House to work with the Republican Senate. He is not promising that the Republican Senate will work with the Democratic House.

  48. 48.

    tobie

    November 17, 2018 at 10:11 am

    @Elizabelle: I know you worked hard for Spanberger’s campaign so I was wondering if you had any insight from into why she is so adamant in her opposition to Pelosi. All I’ve heard is generic palaver about it being time for new leadership but that strikes me as spin. I genuinely don’t get why so many of the newly elected Democratic representatives–folks who are left of center but not radical–are throwing down the gauntlet on Pelosi. I’m thinking of folks like Brindisi, Slotkin, Spanberger, etc.

  49. 49.

    Joey Maloney

    November 17, 2018 at 10:13 am

    I was thinking of another word that starts with s-c-h to describe the #FiveWhiteGuys, but okay.

  50. 50.

    Elizabelle

    November 17, 2018 at 10:22 am

    @tobie: I don’t know, and would love to ask.

  51. 51.

    gene108

    November 17, 2018 at 10:24 am

    I can understand why the newly elected Congresscritters, who successfully flipped Republican held seats said*,because they needed independent voters, who may have bought into the right-wing smears of Pelosi.

    Why the rest of the Democrats, in safer districts, aren’t all in on Pelosi, I don’t understand

    Edit:* They won’t vote for Pelosi

  52. 52.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 17, 2018 at 10:31 am

    If Pelosi is the only candidate, the whiny white guys are going to have a Hell of a time replacing her. And how many defectors are there? It would take fourteen even to force another vote, where any theoretical non-Pelosi candidate can’t win, so pressure will be greater to vote for Nancy.

    On a totally separate topic, you know why Republicans have gone so insane? Because demographics have moved so far that cheating shamelessly is barely pulling them 50/50 right now. Their power is a mile wide and a knife edge deep, now, and they’re watching it slip tiny bit by tiny bit.

  53. 53.

    KSinMA

    November 17, 2018 at 10:32 am

    @lamh36: Love her too!

  54. 54.

    tobie

    November 17, 2018 at 10:33 am

    @Elizabelle: Okay…we’re all in the dark on this.

    @gene108: Katie Porter gave what I thought was a model statement for any wavering Dem who fears alienating their constituents in reddish districts with a vote for Pelosi. She said something to the effect that now is not the time for the party to have internal squabbles. We’ve got more important things to attend to. It’s a formula made for cutting and pasting and allows for endless embellishing with important local issues.

  55. 55.

    Miss Bianca

    November 17, 2018 at 10:34 am

    @Elizabelle: please do ask. I know if it were me, I would be asking not only why no Pelosi – who shepherded the ACA and the Lily Ledbetter act thru’ Congress – but who, *precisely* she thinks us better qualified, and precisely why.

  56. 56.

    Nelle

    November 17, 2018 at 10:36 am

    I would like the shamelessness of a candidate for office also being the one controlling the election be made very public. A whole series of ads, based on sports, where the referee grabs the basketball, makes a basket, calls a foul on the opponent and, despite standing on the line, declares it a three-pointer. All in his striped uniform.

    What would this look like for other sports? It needs to be made visible.

    It is risible….except it is the norm and many do not stop and say, wait a minute.

  57. 57.

    Sab

    November 17, 2018 at 10:40 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: I am a huge Pelosi fan, but they aren’t all white guys. Marcia Fudge isn’t whiny, white, a guy or a ratfucker. Anyone here from her district know what’s up?

  58. 58.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 17, 2018 at 10:41 am

    @Betty Cracker: It sounds as if this is the situation:
    1. Pelosi has overwhelming majority support in the caucus, so on a straight vote she’d get the nomination.
    2. The actual Speaker needs a majority vote, not just a plurality, so under normal conditions, being nominated would mean she wins.
    3. But the anti-Pelosi crowd are making threats which, if you read between the lines, are about somehow throwing the Speakership to the Republicans if Pelosi is the nominee. They think there are enough of them to deny her a majority. Presumably they could in theory all vote for Kevin McCarthy, if they were serious.

    I think that if people get them to speak more explicitly about point 3, they’ll probably fold, because it’s despicable and won’t win them any friends except among the truly deranged. But who knows?

  59. 59.

    tobie

    November 17, 2018 at 10:42 am

    @Nelle: You should send that ad idea to MoveOn. It’s great — playful but sharp and hits the point!

  60. 60.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 17, 2018 at 10:43 am

    @Sab: She’s anti-LGBT, isn’t she? I’ve been wondering if that’s what this is really all about, a last gasp of the homophobe/transphobe faction in the party against the crazy lady from Gaytown.

  61. 61.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    November 17, 2018 at 10:45 am

    Michael Steele was just on AM Joy saying Pelosi will be Speaker and Trump will be in for a world of hurt.

  62. 62.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 17, 2018 at 10:47 am

    @tobie: I think with Spanberger it’s because she’s from a historically quite red district and got a lot of crossover votes from fairly conservative people who are just sick of Dave Brat and Trump. But they’ve also absorbed all the years of hate propaganda against Pelosi, and supporting someone who would support Pelosi is a bridge too far for them.

    I think something like that is going on for many of these people–maybe not Moulton.

  63. 63.

    Sab

    November 17, 2018 at 10:48 am

    @Matt McIrvin: No she isn’t. She just doesn’t want LGBT issues inserted into the Voting Rights Act repair legislation.

  64. 64.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 17, 2018 at 10:53 am

    @tobie: They’re perfectly free to vote against her in the nomination vote. That ought to be enough for them to tell their constituents that they supported a change of leadership.

  65. 65.

    tobie

    November 17, 2018 at 11:04 am

    @Matt McIrvin: No doubt all these details are being hammered out behind the scenes, and this may well be sound and fury signifying nothing, but it would be so much more impressive if the Democrats were speaking in unison now about what needs to be fixed in government instead of engaging in Kabuki theater. The independents who voted for Democratic candidates this time around hate these kinds of games. Yay to Pelosi for making voting rights the top item on the agenda!

  66. 66.

    Another Scott

    November 17, 2018 at 11:14 am

    @Schlemazel: Good list. I would add:

    n) Have a standard ballot design with all instructions at the top, not mixed in among the candidates. (Supposedly Nelson didn’t get votes because his position in the ballot was near/under instructions rather than with the other races.)

    Ballots should be standardized to the extent possible.

    o) Give voters an opportunity to review their choices before the ballot is officially tabulated. “You have indicated you are voting for X, Y, Z, A, B. You did not vote for a candidate for Benevolent Despot. Do you want to make any changes? (Y/N)”

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  67. 67.

    Barbara

    November 17, 2018 at 11:15 am

    I am pissed at Spanberger because I wrote postcards for her until my arm practically fell off, and many friends took buses to canvass for her on weekends. Women didn’t jump start the resistance so they could be bossed around by people like Seth Moulton.

  68. 68.

    Another Scott

    November 17, 2018 at 11:22 am

    @tobie: She’s being consistent. RollCall (from October):

    But Spanberger has said at least three times since July that she would “under no circumstances” vote for Pelosi to remain the House Democrats’ leader if she defeats Brat in November. She told USA Today that “time and time again” she has been forced to counter Brat’s claim to the contrary.

    Brat also knocked his opponent Monday for the millions of dollars in outside money being spent by liberal PACs to help Spanberger — even though outside groups have spent 33 percent more over the cycle on his behalf.

    “They are trying to buy this election,” the congressman said.

    The Pelosi-aligned House Majority PAC has spent $432,000 so far in support of Spanberger despite her declaration that she would not back Pelosi to lead the Democratic Caucus.

    Spanberger being elected increases Nancy’s chances of being Speaker. Even if she speaks out against her, and even if she votes against her. It would look bad if Spanberger changed her position before even taking the oath.

    (Dunno if “leader of the Democratic Caucus” as opposed to Speaker is a fudge here. Probably not, but one can argue that they are different.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  69. 69.

    Barbara

    November 17, 2018 at 11:31 am

    @Another Scott: She can vote for or against whoever she wants but she doesn’t have to make it a marquee effort.

  70. 70.

    tobie

    November 17, 2018 at 11:35 am

    @Another Scott:

    She told USA Today that “time and time again” she has been forced to counter Brat’s claim to the contrary.

    This makes me think she let Brat back her into a corner. It would have been good to find a way to indicate she didn’t support Pelosi’s leadership without committing to voting against her. But I’m speaking with the benefit of hindsight. In real time Spanberger couldn’t know what her chances of winning were. I very much hope this is all a tempest in a teapot. In her ropposition to Pelosi, she has alienated a lot of folks who pushed her over the edge. The same goes for Brindisi who was one of the 17 to sign Moulton’s stupid letter.
    ETA: I’m still wondering *why* she opposes Pelosi. That she’s on record for saying she would do so was never in question.

  71. 71.

    Fair Economist

    November 17, 2018 at 11:43 am

    @pluky: If they had a credible challenger they would not need to go after Pelosi. She has wanted to retire for years. If there were an adequately caucus-skillful progressive I think she would voluntarily go into an emeritus position. The problem is absent her Hoyer is speaker and that is not desirable policywise.

  72. 72.

    sdhays

    November 17, 2018 at 11:45 am

    @FlipYrWhig: If Hastert had been a Democrat and the new Democratic Speaker had insisted on following the “Hastert Rule”, Republicans would have called it the “Child Molester Rule” every time it came up. That Democrats didn’t do this is what the media means by “Democrats don’t play the game as well as Republicans”.

  73. 73.

    sdhays

    November 17, 2018 at 11:50 am

    @Another Scott:

    Dunno if “leader of the Democratic Caucus” as opposed to Speaker is a fudge here. Probably not, but one can argue that they are different.

    I don’t care who she votes for in caucus. I support Pelosi, but that’s for the caucus to decide. But if she loses the fight over picking a new leader of the caucus, then I expect her to vote for Nancy over McCarthy for Speaker. If she does anything else, I really don’t know why she bothered to go to all the trouble to get there.

  74. 74.

    kindness

    November 17, 2018 at 11:50 am

    Those Five White Guys…. one of the unexpected pluses of Republicans wiping out squishy Democrats in recent elections is that I really have ended up liking not having to make excuses for traitor Blue Dog Democrats. They were the first batch who lost. They made enabling Democratic action harder by their efforts. And the caucus is stronger now without them. So what is it these Five White Guys want? To resurrect the rotting corpse of Joe Lieberman? Jesus weeps.

  75. 75.

    Platonailedit

    November 17, 2018 at 11:50 am

    @Another Scott:
    No, she is running for her reelection already. Her voters aren’t gonna remember or even care if she voted for Pelosi or not. They are going to wanna know what she did for them.

  76. 76.

    japa21

    November 17, 2018 at 11:52 am

    Voting against Pelosi as leader of the Democratic Caucus is different from voting against her for Speaker. When Pelosi is Speaker someone else (probably Hoyer) becomes leader of the caucus technically. In theory only, the Speaker of the House is not leader of the party. That is why someone who is not even a member of the House can become Speaker.

  77. 77.

    rikyrah

    November 17, 2018 at 11:52 am

    @Quinerly:
    Morning to Poco and the tribe ??

  78. 78.

    rikyrah

    November 17, 2018 at 11:55 am

    @Matt McIrvin:
    She is from Cantor’s old district.

  79. 79.

    dopey-o

    November 17, 2018 at 12:05 pm

    @Another Scott:

    @Schlemazel: Good list. I would add:

    n) Have a standard ballot design with all instructions at the top, not mixed in among the candidates. (Supposedly Nelson didn’t get votes because his position in the ballot was near/under instructions rather than with the other races.)

    Ballots should be standardized to the extent possible.

    o) Give voters an opportunity to review their choices before the ballot is officially tabulated. “You have indicated you are voting for X, Y, Z, A, B. You did not vote for a candidate for Benevolent Despot. Do you want to make any changes? (Y/N)”

    St. Louis County Missouri – reliably blue in a sea of red – has just that ballot layout, including screens warning of under-votes. On major issues, only 1 issue is displayed per screen. Worth taking a look at, by anyone wanting to establish standards for 2020 and beyond. If anyone is interested, i will try to get names of the designers and coders.

  80. 80.

    Mnemosyne

    November 17, 2018 at 12:19 pm

    @Sab:

    WTF are you talking about? Fudge is one of only 2 Democrats from the entire House caucus who refused to co-sponsor the Equality Act, which was an attempt to put anti-LGBTQ discrimination on a level with discrimination against race/sex/religion.

    If Fudge is now claiming that it was somehow going to get squeezed into a new voting rights act, she’s lying.

  81. 81.

    Chris Johnson

    November 17, 2018 at 12:26 pm

    As far as I’m concerned it’s strictly about ‘get Pelosi not to advocate lame stuff like pay-go’ rather than ‘replace Pelosi with great progressive hope’.

    There’s perfectly legitimate criticisms of some angles Pelosi takes. The solution is to get her not to do that, rather than ditch her as a legislator.

    The idea of pay-go (any spending must be balanced by cuts to remain revenue neutral) is economically retarded when you’re a nation-state that prints the world’s reserve currency. It’s rolling over and piddling in advance out of fear that Republicans will go ‘ooooo, tax and spend liberals’. It’s bullshit and macroeconomics doesn’t work like that: the real question is whether spending can boost GDP to the point where it’s cancelled out. It’s on record that the countries who resorted to austerity to try and deal with debt (in recent history) have ended up worse off with a higher debt/GDP ratio, because they starved themselves until they were economically weak!

    Again, perfectly legitimate criticisms and the answer is ‘Nancy, quit making this argument’, not ‘get rid of Nancy’. Some of these positions she takes are defensive moves. Better she should be in a position to not have to be so defensive, and if she is in fact an austerity kool-aid drinker, she is wrong and she’s part of a coalition that increasingly repudiates this bad, bad economics. She can grow up and abandon those positions. All over the world that stuff is increasingly disgraced, just drop the pay-go talk. That’s not how economics work.

  82. 82.

    Humdog

    November 17, 2018 at 12:30 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Has Nancy ever said she had the votes when she didn’t? We all know she is more in tune with the caucus than any friggen reporter.

  83. 83.

    Mnemosyne

    November 17, 2018 at 12:30 pm

    Someone else posted this list from Roll Call the other day — only 8 newcomers to the House have unequivocally said that they will not vote for Pelosi to be speaker. Everyone else — including AOC — was able to dodge the question to some degree.

    As I was saying yesterday, I now think that Cheryl was right and that AOC and Pelosi worked together to stage the whole “joining the demonstration” thing the other day. It gave AOC a platform for one of her (and Pelosi’s) priorities and demonstrated to new members that Pelosi can give them opportunities to showcase their pet causes if they vote for her as Speaker. It was a very shrewd move.

    Also, I wouldn’t panic too much if Pelosi is elected Speaker with a few dissenting votes from the newcomers who backed themselves into a corner. Pelosi can count and knows who may need to be set free so they don’t piss off their district.

  84. 84.

    Suzanne

    November 17, 2018 at 12:32 pm

    I love me some Nancy Smash, and I definitely think she should be Speaker. But I do think it would be wise for her (and honestly, I would love her even more) if she made a strong commitment to a succession plan and discussed how they plan to raise up new leadership. Strong organizations do that.

  85. 85.

    NonyNony

    November 17, 2018 at 12:40 pm

    @sdhays:

    But if she loses the fight over picking a new leader of the caucus, then I expect her to vote for Nancy over McCarthy for Speaker. If she does anything else, I really don’t know why she bothered to go to all the trouble to get there.

    She can also apparently vote “present” rather than voting for McCarthy – supposedly Pelosi only needs a majority of the votes cast and voting “present” reduces the total number of votes being cast for an individual (and therefore also reduces the vote total needed for someone to become Speaker).

    I’m assuming all 8 of the candidates who felt the need to promise their voters that they would not vote for Pelosi will end up voting “present” (or somehow “not being in town” when the vote it taken) and that Pelosi has already figured out how to make the math work out to account for it.

  86. 86.

    A Ghost To Most

    November 17, 2018 at 12:53 pm

    @Humdog: Not to mention that Clyburn is confident Nancy Smash will prevail. He knows how to count votes.

  87. 87.

    Chyron HR

    November 17, 2018 at 12:53 pm

    @Chris Johnson:

    Yeah, bills and budgets are squaresville, man! Ay-Oh-See says we just need to, like, manifest single payer with our prajna, man.

  88. 88.

    tobie

    November 17, 2018 at 12:56 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I have no idea how reliable Ryan Grimm’s reporting is, but this is what he says on twitter about the protest:

    That’s false. Pelosi did not know. (Also I’ve blocked or muted armando, not sure which, bc life is too short, so I won’t see his replies. Suffice it to say Pelosi did not know. The fact that she responded well to it has obscured the risk AOC took. It could have gone bad)

    You may have also heard about this alleged kerfuffle with Frank Pallone, who heads the Energy and Commerce Committee. The report is disputed, and it’s from Politico so take it with a mighty grain of salt.

  89. 89.

    tobie

    November 17, 2018 at 1:05 pm

    @Chris Johnson: Germany has a pay-go system. This came up a lot during the debate there about immigration. One of the justifications given was that the country desperately needs young worker to help pay for the benefits for retirees. I’ve heard similar arguments made in the US concerning FICA taxes. I have no idea how legitimate or illegitimate pay-go is in economic terms.

  90. 90.

    Shalimar

    November 17, 2018 at 1:32 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Who is the alternative to Pelosi? There is zero chance anyone is going to get more Democratic votes than she will. And as ignorant as Tim Ryan is, New York has to have taught him a lesson about the personal consequences of reaching across the aisle to vote for a Republican.

  91. 91.

    A Ghost To Most

    November 17, 2018 at 1:42 pm

    Nascent boycott of Georgia by Hollywood over corrupted election

  92. 92.

    James E Powell

    November 17, 2018 at 1:49 pm

    @sdhays:

    If Hastert had been a Democrat and the new Democratic Speaker had insisted on following the “Hastert Rule”, Republicans would have called it the “Child Molester Rule” every time it came up. That Democrats didn’t do this is what the media means by “Democrats don’t play the game as well as Republicans”.

    If Democrats had done that, they’d have been condemned for incivility 24/7. When the press/media say “Democrats don’t play the game as well as Republicans,” what they really mean is “We have different rules for Democrats and Republicans.”

  93. 93.

    TaMara (HFG)

    November 17, 2018 at 2:09 pm

    @A Ghost To Most: It sure seemed to work for Colorado’s prop 2. And that thriving community never recovered. So GA take notes.

  94. 94.

    Aleta

    November 17, 2018 at 2:31 pm

    Hard to say how far they’ll get in challenging Pelosi, or how far they’ll go, but I think we have to take it seriously. Seems like, at the least, they want to threaten her for the sake of increasing themselves, w/o caring about the damage. Besides writing to my reps, if’s there organizing to publicize the number of her supporters, I’d like to join it.

    I think what makes me feel it’s a credible threat doesn’t come from knowledge of politics (mine is shallow) but from relating it to a kind of power politics in other institutions the last 5-10 years. Where young white professionals newly in management seem to undercut/demoralize or force out higher-up workers who gained power over time, just to reorganize for the sake of reorganizing.

    As though reorganizing is in itself the goal or the job to them. Going after the quick advancement that capturing others’ power would supposedly bring. Maybe because looking good on paper (or spreadsheet ) is important in self-promotion now. I think of it as a more corporate attitude, and whether it applies to Pelosi’s challengers I don’t know. Having seen it succeed in education and other places I wouldn’t expect, I interpret the signs with bias, as destructive.

  95. 95.

    JPL

    November 17, 2018 at 2:40 pm

    @James E Powell: What ever happened to Mark Foley?

  96. 96.

    Haroldo

    November 17, 2018 at 2:53 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:@SFAW:

    I dunno what it is with Eastern MA – perhaps a strong misogynistic streak? Warren did not do very well in the eastern MA counties, actually losing Plymouth Co. I live in the 6th district and I know there is strong anti Warren sentiment in the male-dominated tech company where I used to work (Pocahontas – Haw Haw Haw). Moulton is born and bred Essex Co (I think) and so perhaps he is a reflection of that wretched tradition.

  97. 97.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    November 17, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    @JPL: In a van, down by the river….

    Oh wait, you said Mark Foley.

  98. 98.

    Anonymous at Work

    November 17, 2018 at 3:03 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Alexandra Petri nails it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2018/11/16/im-fine-with-women-in-power-just-not-this-one-specific-woman-currently-in-power/?fbclid=IwAR2mIX9N-iRbTnbM48HzoGiuyl5S9BsYaubSyLW6ytdHQgltego5k4qOgXw&utm_term=.cb30226b7f01

  99. 99.

    tam1MI

    November 17, 2018 at 3:15 pm

    @Aleta: What i’d lie to see is Ryan and Moulton getting the Susan Collins treatment – that someone puts together a GoFundMe or whatever of money that will go to their opponents in a primary if they continue on this course.

  100. 100.

    Corner Stone

    November 17, 2018 at 3:26 pm

    Man, this blog is deader than an Archduke in Sarajevo.
    .
    .
    .
    Too soon?

  101. 101.

    JPL

    November 17, 2018 at 3:31 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I wonder if anyone had to google his name.. lol

  102. 102.

    JPL

    November 17, 2018 at 3:34 pm

    Ohio State is down a touchdown against Maryland with 1:41 to go. hmmm

  103. 103.

    Keith P.

    November 17, 2018 at 3:37 pm

    I’m kind of curious what kind of gavel Pelosi is going to get. When Paul Ryan became speaker (and I think Boehner, too), they got these comically large gavels and made a big deal that their gavels were so much bigger than the previous (Dem) gavel. By all rights, Pelosi should come out with a Gallagher mallet, but she’ll probably err on the side of quiet taste and just go back to a normal sized one.

  104. 104.

    jl

    November 17, 2018 at 3:55 pm

    @Keith P.: I want Pelosi to have a gigantic pile driver. So big they gotta heighten the ceiling a little.

    From post:
    ” #FiveWhiteGuys and their fellow anti-Pelosi ratfvckers look like the two-bit schemers they are? ”
    Well, the hard core opposition is not just five white guys, though it is mostly. It mostly, mostly, is newly elected Democrats who ran as moderates in districts considered red, with thin margins. And they were skeered of GOP attacks, and made silly promises during the campaign. Then thete is Lamb who maybe was skeerder that he should have been. And incumbent dingbat center-rightests like Tim Ryan. who news article says today that he might offer himself up as a candidate for Speaker. No thanks.

    But I see in the news that Ocasio-Cortez is saying she is open to Pelosi, so I guess the deal with progressives is sticking. John Lewis is for Pelosi, Another news item says Pelosi is bargaining with Fudge, who sounds like she is receptive.

    So, things are looking up. The conservaDems have challenged Pelosi before and whifffed bigtime.

    Edit: no links since no summary article yet. Don’t want to post half a dozen links from a news.google. ‘Pelosi Speaker election’ search.

  105. 105.

    debbie

    November 17, 2018 at 3:57 pm

    Has anyone shared this tweet yet?

    Joe Wezorek's anti-war statement. Angered by what he considered George Bush's political posturing over Iraq, he created an internet image entitled "War President" using the faces of the hundreds of US troops who died there. Posted on his website, American Leftist pic.twitter.com/XwEPv634IW— Stone Cold (@stonecold2050) November 17, 2018

    Be sure to click to see the photograph.

  106. 106.

    sukabi

    November 17, 2018 at 4:02 pm

    @Keith P.: she should go with the regular sized gavel, but come prepared to go Thor and Captain America on their asses.

  107. 107.

    Another Scott

    November 17, 2018 at 4:02 pm

    @tobie: I think Nancy will win, and I think she understands the lay of the land well enough to not be bothered by the verbal opposition.

    E.g. from November 6:

    Nancy Pelosi Verified account @TeamPelosi

    Congratulations U.S. Representative-Elect Abigail @SpanbergerVA07! Your constituents agreed with your compelling vision on security, gun sense, health care, Medicare, and Social Security. I look forward to serving with you #ForThePeople. –NP #VA07

    [image]

    8:51 PM – 6 Nov 2018

    As to why? I dunno. Part of it, I’m sure, is the district she’s in.

    RCP from April (before the Primary):

    […]

    Both Democrats are themselves potentially vulnerable to outside attacks. Republicans have made two things central to their campaigns this year: talking up their tax cuts, and linking Democrats to Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi.

    On the tax bill, Spanberger criticized it as “wholly irresponsible” because it added to the national debt, and said she doesn’t support making the individual tax cuts, which are currently set to expire in a decade, permanent. Ward said he supports repealing the entire tax law outright. Though Republicans are likely to run ads saying Ward would back tax hikes if he becomes the nominee, he said he welcomes that debate.

    The “tax break these folks have received has been nominal,” he said of middle-class cuts compared to those for the wealthy and corporations. “It’s been pennies compared to where most of the money is going.”

    On the other issue, Pelosi, the candidates diverge. Spanberger praised the former speaker, but said she would “very much like to vote for someone else,” and said the party needs new leadership. She acknowledged, however, that Republicans were “100 percent” likely to still run ads linking her to Pelosi if she becomes the nominee, and admitted they might be somewhat effective regardless of her position.

    Ward, on the other hand, said he’d have no problem backing Pelosi as leader – though he said he could also vote for a challenger depending on who emerged. When asked about ads linking him to Pelosi and the potential to damage his campaign, he responded: “Let them run the ads.”

    “Why do we Democrats allow Republicans to demonize our people?” he said. “If we acquiesce to that pressure to replace Nancy Pelosi as speaker, whoever follows her is going to be Demon No. 2, and we have to stop giving them that space.”

    If it helped her win in November, then I agree with Nancy Smash – it’s fine, because it helped give the Democrats the House majority.

    Spanberger sounds like someone who, like Nancy, knows how politics works.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  108. 108.

    MomSense

    November 17, 2018 at 4:04 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Pelosi didn’t know. The organizers of the protest did not coordinate with Pelosi and AOC joined it when their protest was already in progress. It is because Nancy Smash is such a pro that it turned out as well as it did. AOC is very lucky Pelosi decided to giver her something resembling a win. And Pelosi will use this to secure AOC’s support in her bid for speaker.

  109. 109.

    jl

    November 17, 2018 at 4:06 pm

    @Another Scott: Spanberger was on a list of hard ‘no’s’ a few days ago. If she is a good politician, she’ll answer Pelosi’s calls and find a way to make that unfortunate problem problem and unwise stated position go away. Looks like she is ready to work her way out. Which is good.

    Then Tim Ryan can bravely run and vote for himself, along with one or two of his cronies.

  110. 110.

    PsiFighter37

    November 17, 2018 at 4:09 pm

    Although I supported the concept of ‘pay-as-you-go’ back when Democrats retook the House in 2006, I’m convinced that it’s bad on 2 fronts. First, the GOP has shown they will never follow the rules, as they will advance revenue reduction (i.e. tax cuts) as much as possible, without bothering to offset the spending in the first place. Second – and I think this has contributed to the overall nationalization of politics and has made it a lot harder on rural areas generally – I think banning earmarks was a terrible mistake. There are clearly some instances that may be egregious overspending, but many earmarks serve the public cause and are worthwhile for the government to fund – precisely because if the government did not, no one else would.

    Unfortunately, I think earmarks are dead until one party controls the presidency / Congress long enough to the point where they think nobody cares.

  111. 111.

    PsiFighter37

    November 17, 2018 at 4:11 pm

    @jl: She can vote ‘no’ in the leadership contest and ‘present’ for Speaker. I don’t care otherwise.

    Nancy Smash should also be clear that she’s only going to serve this term – and that’s it. Regardless of her effectiveness, I don’t think having someone in their 80s should be the person driving our legislative agenda, regardless of who they are.

  112. 112.

    jl

    November 17, 2018 at 4:24 pm

    @PsiFighter37: Me too. I don’t care exactly how Spanberger gets out of it, as long as everyone is on the same page and it works.

    As for Pelosi, I didn’t read about a self-imposed term limit as part of the progressive deal, but then don’t seem to be any good summary news reports up yet. I think the most important part of the deal puts young progressives on a fast track for leadership positions. That is more important.

    We have to admit that the Democratic party has to work its way through some issues, mainly on economic policy, particularly healthcare economics. I think the public has moved ahead of the mainstream Dems on Medicare for all policy. When an establishment Dem says no to that, I don’t know whether they mean to fight for a greatly improved PPACA (good!), or muddle through with the mess the GOP left us (not good!). Maybe because I am an economist, I think way too much emphasis on how to finance insurance and health care, not enough on implementing policies that are needed regardless of financing system. So, universal care, some approximation of community rating, pre-existing conditions covered, risk adjustment for insurers, policies to prevent corporate (big Pharma, hospital and medical group chains, private specialty clinic and laboratory scams) price gouging. Get that done, and there are at least half a dozen good financing systems we can choose from. Don’t get those done and any financing system will produce big problems.

    Pelosi is by far the best to lead on civil rights issues, and voting rights and fight against gerrymandering has gained very wide popular support too. So, Pelosi has an A+ plan for now, and that is a good sign.

  113. 113.

    Another Scott

    November 17, 2018 at 4:30 pm

    @PsiFighter37: I expect earmarks to be back pretty soon. Brookings (from January):

    When the House Rules Committee scheduled hearings for this week on bringing back the congressional practice of earmarking, it probably did not expect an assist from President Trump. The always-unpredictable president surprised congressional leaders last week by recommending they reinstate earmarks.

    Uncharacteristically, Trump eschewed hyperbole. He did not suggest that reviving earmarks would ring in a new age in Washington. He did suggest, correctly, that it would be a step in the right direction for our beleaguered Congress. As the Grinnell College political scientist Peter Hanson wrote recently in the Washington Post, “Earmarks offer no magic solution to the challenge of legislating in a polarized environment. But restoring them in some version could give leaders a tool to build bipartisan coalitions by attracting Democrats who might otherwise vote against GOP measures.”

    […]

    It’s a good piece.

    We’ll see what happens, though.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  114. 114.

    gene108

    November 17, 2018 at 4:39 pm

    @sdhays:

    Democratic voters or would be Democratic voters, such as independents or irregular voters, are turned off by negativity in politics. They want candidates that inspire them in a positive way.

    Slagging Republicans with insults can be counter productive after a point.

  115. 115.

    sdhays

    November 17, 2018 at 6:23 pm

    @James E Powell: No disagreement here.

    @gene108: Absolutely. I wasn’t suggesting that Democrats should have done that since obviously it doesn’t work for them and it’s awful, just that that’s how the dynamics would have worked if the shoe was on the other foot. Whenever a Democratic Speaker was mentioned, the Republicans would find a way to include the words “child molester” in close proximity, and no matter how offensive people found it or how often it was pointed out how that was unfair, they would continue since they suffer no consequences for being assholes, the media would very quickly tire of pretending to be offended and accept it, and the word “Democrat” would become subconsciously linked with “child molester” for a chunk of the less engaged voting and non-voting public. Wash, rinse, and repeat.

  116. 116.

    JR

    November 17, 2018 at 7:45 pm

    @sdhays: I think it’s worth considering that the Republicans are elected, by and large, to advance a national ideology. Voters don’t really hold them accountable for what they do, as long as they believe the right things. Many (most?) democratic voters still expect their representatives to do things. Holding up the speaker vote is a good way to get some appropriations sent your way.

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