Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans can’t even be trusted with their own money.

If ‘weird’ was the finish line, they ran through the tape and kept running.

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

The choice is between normal and crazy.

In after Baud. Damn.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

The line between political reporting and fan fiction continues to blur.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you don’t.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

“Just close your eyes and kiss the girl and go where the tilt-a-whirl takes you.” ~OzarkHillbilly

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

Everybody saw this coming.

Fight them, without becoming them!

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Foreign Affairs Open Thread: Which #@%^ Keeps Queuing Up ‘Moldy Oldies’ on the History Channel?!?

Foreign Affairs Open Thread: Which #@%^ Keeps Queuing Up ‘Moldy Oldies’ on the History Channel?!?

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Is there a ‘President Eisehower face-palm’ gif out there somewhere?…


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191Comments

  2. 2.

    japa21

    Trump is wrong. This was not an accident. It was, IMO, a warning shot to display capabilities. At the same time, US very well knows that Iran views that as over its territory. We, meaning some in the administration, are begging Iran to do something that will cause even Trump to want to do something. Fo0rtunately, I think the leaders of Iran are much smarter than what is currently in charge of our country.

  4. 4.

    Baud

    He added it would have made a big difference if the drone was manned.

    Maybe we can send Bolton up on the next flight. Win-win.

  5. 5.

    MazeDancer

    Soonergrunt responded to Zeddy

    Don’t entirely agree, but this wasn’t even an RQ-4. It was an old block 10 that had been converted to a testbed for the Navy version of the RQ-4, the MQ-4.
    This was an obsolete semi-functional unit sent to the region last week
    Almost like a target

    .

  8. 8.

    Ohio Mom

    The only nice thing anyone can say about Trump is that he hasn’t (yet) gotten us into any military adventures. I always assume that’s behind Atrios’s contention that W remains a worse president than Trump (I don’t think I agree with this assessment but I can see the logic).

  9. 9.

    Jeffro

    Important thing to remember here is that trumpov doesn’t wanna get on Putin’s bad side…I see the US standing down in 3, 2, 1…

  11. 11.

    japa21

    @MazeDancer: I don’t know if soonergrunt is right or not. But definitely would agree that this was set up to be a target the Iranians couldn’t resist. Which makes me believe, as I said before, that the US knew this was in what Iran considers its air space and therefore a legitimate target.

  12. 12.

    Sab

    So I was driving home from the grocery this afternoon, listening to NPR ( I really should stop doing that) and I heard Mary Louise Kelly (or whateverher name is) solemnly intone ( whilst questionning) that “now that Iran has shot down a US aircraft…”

    Iran possibly shot down a drone. Totally unmanned. Everyone who has ever been at an upscale wedding has wanted to shoot down the photographers drone.

    I screamed at my radio “It’s a drone, you phucking moron!”

    I am done with NPR pledging. I like our local station and their news, but they keep bringing this national dreck to our kids. I will miss them when they are gone, but I will not miss Mary Louise Kelly (or Kelley) or Steve Inskeep who admires Andrew Jackson.

    W done good on destroying our civic institutions.

    So our media wants us to go to war over this? (the drone mary louise was so outraged about.)

  13. 13.

    Ohio Mom

    @Baud: Yeah, they are both awful in their own unique ways.

    But it remains true that I appreciate that the one awful thing Trump hasn’t done yet is a war. I won’t be surprised if he does though.

  14. 14.

    TenguPhule

    Trump does not want conflict. Pompeo, Pence, Esper are “swing votes.”

    This is insider baseball horseshit. Trust no one.

  15. 15.

    Kent

    You KNOW that both the US and Iranians could provide high-resolution tracking data for this drone overlaid on top of a map of international boundary lines. I’m sure the Iranians had it on their radar. And I guarantee that the US military has high resolution milisecond by milisecond tracking data showing the EXACT path of this drone up to the point that it disappeared.

    The fact that we aren’t seeing this suggests that someone is not telling the whole truth.

  16. 16.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    He added it would have made a big difference if the drone was manned.

    how is it we don’t hear the usual suspects moan and groan about drooooooonze anymore? How is they stopped caring once Dump entered office?

    On a bigger point: the usual suspects used to argue drone use makes it easier to go to war because it eliminated the risk of losing pilots. But Dump has stumbled on to a reality: using drones makes it harder to go to war because no one cares if you lose a flying computer.

  17. 17.

    Gravenstone

    @japa21: Well, when punching holes in tankers isn’t sufficient to get their casus belli, they have to turn it up a notch.

  19. 19.

    Baud

    @Kent:

    Hell, my cell phone takes a better video than the one we saw of the Iranian boat next to the tanker.

  20. 20.

    MazeDancer

    @japa21:

    So, Iran and Bolton both knew it was a target. Guess Iran had to swat it.

    Please may Trump know that going to war with Iran is not a popular move.

  24. 24.

    TenguPhule

    @Baud:

    My one wish after the election was always that we get through without dropping a nuclear bomb on anyone.

    Did you see the Pentagon’s exciting new ideas about using nuclear weapons on the battlefield yesterday?

  26. 26.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Baud:

    I hate that both us and them suck.

    My inner Grammar Nazi showed up to say “It should be:‘both we and they suck.’ “

    I looked my Grammar Nazi right in the eye and said “Fuck off and die in a fire. It’s perfect just as is.”

  27. 27.

    Kent

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Yes. Althought Iran’s claims are not recognized internationally.

    This might very well be a case of the US asserting the right of passage through disputed territory like the Navy does around the islands built by China in the south China sea. In other words, both sides knowing exactly what the other way doing.

  29. 29.

    Martin

    This is my concern about military drones. Because they are unmanned, the marginal cost of using them is extremely low, which means we’ll use them in situations we wouldn’t have used a manned aircraft. We’ll use them to attack targets we previously would have demurred on, we’ll use them to instigate actions we previously wouldn’t have risked.

    $300 million? Eh. The primary mission of the DOD is to hand money to their contractors. And since we’re retiring various models of RQ-4, it may not have had any value anyway.

  30. 30.

    Wakeshift

    As always, thank you for this.
    Among the many (well, several…) reasons I come to Balloon Juice is so I never have to go on twitter.
    The curated selections are coherent, informative, and interesting.

    As to the topic, this probably an inappropriate metaphor but it seems a bit like Bolton’s (or whoever) strategy here is
    “Wear a really skimpy outfit, so the IRGC (or whoever) will take advantage and then defend the assault by saying she (he?) was clearly asking for it”

  33. 33.

    Jeffro

    Stop parsing this whole thing…”the US was 100 yards over the line”…”depends upon whose definition of international waters we’re using”…its crap.

    Big picture? We got out of the JCPOA ’cause trumpov wants to undo everything Obama ever did no matter how sensible, his advisers are war-mad loons, and even our allies can’t take our government’s word on what happened (either with the tankers or the drone).

    Any other reality and 99% of the US would be ready to kick an uninformed, reactionary, alienating, shitty manager to the curb. So let’s not get too caught up in the specifics of the drone or the use of drones or whether or not we should cut Iran a break of some kind to avoid war.

    The big picture is, the Orange Moron led/tweeted/hired us to this point, and we shouldn’t have to accept it a day longer.

  35. 35.

    Steve in the ATL

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:I have a similar dispute with my wife about the exact borders of her side of the bed versus mine. Of course, there is 100 pounds of golden retriever who ignores both our claims.

  37. 37.

    Jeffro

    “Did Iran lie?”

    “Did we?”

    “Was the drone in international waters?”

    “What about Iran’s internal politics?”

    “You have to wonder who provoked who…”

    Who cares? The important thing is that we wouldn’t be at this point if it weren’t for trumpov’s hard-on to undo everything Obama ever did, if he didn’t suck so bad at hiring, if he wasn’t such a moron, and if he and his advisers weren’t so bad at the basics of international diplomacy AND national defense.

  38. 38.

    Adam L Silverman

    I’d feel a lot better if I was sure he understands that drones are always unmanned.

  40. 40.

    NotMax

    OT, in case any might have concluded my occasional gripe about THE HEAT was just the belt onions talking.

    On Monday, another record high temperature was set at Kahului Airport — 94 degrees. The old record was 93 degrees set in 1953, according to the National Weather Service.

    Since May 16, Maui has seen 18 record-setting or -tying high temperature days. The highest so far was 96 degrees on May 26 at the Kahului Airport, where the National Weather Service temperature sensors are located.

    Weather service meteorologist Melissa Dye said sensors at Kahului Airport were inspected last week because of the number of records. There were no abnormalities but the sensors were replaced anyway. Source

    On the plus side, at least it’s not Kuwait, from which there’s been report of reaching 63°C (145°F).

  42. 42.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Kent: The Iranian civilian government that runs in the foreground, as the opaque theocracy runs in the background, is fervently trying to get their information out. Not that it doesn’t need to be verified, it does, but it lifts a bit of the veil.

  43. 43.

    Wakeshift

    @Jeffro:

    This is exactly right.
    Until we amputate the malignant Republican cancer and stitch our bleeding, infected democracy back together, these individual scratches and bruises are meaningless.

    Triage rules in effect:
    Are we red tag, or black?

  44. 44.

    TenguPhule

    @Baud:

    No. Sounds dumb.

    Someone at the Defense Department apparently watched Doctor Strangelove and thought “I can certainly do a better job of this.”

  47. 47.

    Gvg

    I have been surprised Trump hasn’t lead us into a war yet. He seems to love the talk and the uniforms. I wonder if he dimly realizes War is a lot of work and people will really yell at him every time they think he makes a mistake, which will be all the time. He wants a parade, he loves to talk but we aren’t in a war yet.
    If he did start one, he and his goons would be so incompetent that even his base would turn on him.
    Maybe somebody is actually telling him war doesn’t poll well right now.

  48. 48.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’d feel a lot better if I was sure he understands that drones are always unmanned.

    I’d feel a lot better if I was sure the Defense Department wouldn’t be stupid enough to try manning them because Trump thinks it sounds cool.

  49. 49.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman: Iranians: “These guys run their shit all OVER our airspace daily and twice on Sundays! The drone got hit by a frickin’ goose! You gotta be kidding me, we thought we had more wiggle room than this!”

    Bolton: “Typical!” (pushes red button)

    Again, big picture, what does it say when the Iranians can go to the international community and even have a prayer of success with, “You’ve gotta talk to these Americans, they’re NUTS!”?

    I suspect this nuance will be lost on GOP voters, particularly if even one hinky email of Liz’s or Kamala’s can be produced just before the election

  52. 52.

    TenguPhule

    @Gvg:

    If he did start one, he and his goons would be so incompetent that even his base would turn on him.

    Sorry, no. They will blame President Obama. And then Hillary Clinton.

  54. 54.

    NotMax

    @Adam L. Silverman

    alleged video
    Sheesh. It is either a video or it isn’t.

    Sloppy and innately inaccurate construction when what’s intended is “A video allegedly showing,” F. Jeffery.

  55. 55.

    NotMax

    Format fix.
    @Adam L. Silverman

    alleged video

    Sheesh. It is either a video or it isn’t.

    Sloppy and innately inaccurate construction when what’s intended is “A video allegedly showing,” F. Jeffery.

  56. 56.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Kent: Here’s what the Pentagon is putting out:

    And here’s what Iran’s foreign minister is putting out:

    And at the end of this video put out by the Iranians, there is animation showing where the Iranians claim the drone was when they took it down:

  57. 57.

    Jay

    A blast from the past:

    The government of Iran announced that the aircraft was brought down by its cyber warfare unit stationed near Kashmar[4][5][6][7] and “brought down with minimum damage”[8] They said the aircraft was detected in Iranian airspace 225 kilometers (140 mi) from the border with Afghanistan.[9]

    The government of the United States initially claimed that its forces in Afghanistan had lost control of a UAV on 4 December 2011 and that there was a possibility that this is the vehicle that crashed near Kashmar. According to unnamed U.S. officials, a U.S. UAV operated by the Central Intelligence Agency was flying on the Afghan side of the Afghanistan–Iran border when its operators lost control of the vehicle.[10][11] There have been reports that “foreign officials and American experts who have been briefed on the effort” state that the crashed UAV was taking part in routine surveillance of Iranian nuclear facilities inside Iranian airspace.[12

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–U.S._RQ-170_incident

    Back in the day,……

    Iran: we captured a US stealth drone 140 miles, ( 220 km) inside Iran.

    US: No they didn’t, wasn’t ours.

    Iran: photo’s,

    US: Okay, it’s our’s but it wasn’t inside Iran.

    Iran: photo of drone at airbase, map dot of airbase.

    US: It got lost on it’s own. it was shot down over Afghanistan.

    Iran: release of decrypted drone footage showing it coming in for a landing at their airbase.

    US:………………………………………….

  59. 59.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Kent: Kouh-e Mobarak, which is where Iran’s Foreign Minister claims the drone was near when they brought it down, has a number of Iranian military bases.

  60. 60.

    Roger Moore

    @Martin:

    Because they are unmanned, the marginal cost of using them is extremely low

    I don’t think that necessarily follows, for two reasons:

    1) Our current generation of drones are remotely operated. Just because the pilot is not on the drone doesn’t mean there isn’t a pilot; it just means he’s on the ground rather than in the air. This is likely to remain true for the foreseeable future.

    2) The pilot is only a small part of the cost of flying. Things like maintenance and fuel are very expensive, and munitions (for armed drones) are far more expensive still.

  62. 62.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Baud:

    The drone debate will always be tainted by being hijacked by awful people.

    I say we make a targeting list and have the drones take them out.//

  63. 63.

    NotMax

    @Roger Moore

    Cannot speak to this case but aren’t the majority of the military drones remotely operated from Nevada? Or is that just Army drones?

  66. 66.

    Steve in the ATL

    @NotMax: “alleged” is clearly modifying the phrase “video of shooting down of US UAV”, not simply the word “video”

  67. 67.

    John Revolta

    If only there was some kind of, I dunno, international body where countries could go and sort out such things as border disputes! Although I guess that would involve getting the various countries to admit that they’re not the boss of the whole goddamn planet. Oh, well.

  69. 69.

    mrmoshpotato

    Speaking of TV, Outback Truckers is quite good. Good situational drama just from the job itself. No bullshit drama like people talking shit behind each others’ backs or flipping tables and calling each other whores.

  71. 71.

    Raven

    @NotMax:

    n 2012, the USAF trained more UAV pilots than ordinary jet fighter pilots for the first time.[22] Unlike other UAVs, the Predator was armed with Hellfire missiles so that it can terminate the target that it locates.[23] This was done after Predators sighted Osama Bin Laden multiple times but could not do anything about it other than send back images. In addition, the Predator is capable of orchestrating attacks by pointing lasers at the targets.[24] This is important, as it puts a robot in a position to set off an attack. Their overall success is apparent because from June 2005 to June 2006 alone, Predators carried out 2,073 missions and participated in 242 separate raids.[25]

    In contrast to the Predator, which is remotely piloted via satellites, the Global Hawk operates virtually autonomously.[26] The user merely hits the button for ‘take off’ and for ‘land’, while the UAV gets directions via GPS and reports back with a live feed. Global Hawks have the capability to fly from San Francisco and map out the entire state of Maine before having to return.[26] In addition, some UAVs have become so small that they can be launched from one’s hand and maneuvered through the street.[26] These UAVs, known as Ravens, are especially useful in urban areas, such as Iraq, in order to discover insurgents and potential ambushes the next block up.[27] UAVs are especially useful because they can fly for days at a time. Insurgents in the open for more than a few minutes at a time fear UAVs locating them.[23]

    In the U.S., thousands of civilian UAV operators work for contractors, piloting and maintaining UAVs.[28] Up to four UAVs and about 400 to 500 pilot and ground support personnel are required for a single 24-hour-coverage combat air patrol (CAP).[29] A 2011 study by the Air Force School of Aerospace Medicine indicated that nearly 50% of spy UAV operators suffer from high stress.[28] The president of a civilian UAV operators’ union, the Association of Unmanned Operation (AUO), cited long working hours and decreasing wages as U.S. involvement in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was reduced and as a result of the U.S. government’s budget sequestration.[28]

    Given the increasing military use of cyber attacks against Microsoft software, the United States Armed Forces have moved towards Linux ground control software.[30][31]

  73. 73.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jeffro: As someone around here may have mentioned once or twice: we are off the looking glass and through the map.

  74. 74.

    Kent

    @Adam L Silverman: Feverishly TRYING to get information out? This is 2019. They can post anything they want to on any of 100 different web sites or twitter and people will start linking to it.

  75. 75.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’d feel a lot better if I was sure he understands that drones are always unmanned.

    Thanks. That bothered me too.

    But then pretty much everyfuckingthing that come out of his mouth, or his thumbs, bothers me.

  76. 76.

    NotMax

    @Steve in the ATL

    Nope. If it were clear, would never have brought it up.

    “Alleged video of Dolt 45’s Moscow golden shower adventure” would be a proper usage, as there is no proof of existence of a video.

  79. 79.

    Martin

    @Roger Moore: I think you misunderstand. The cost isn’t the salary of the pilot. The cost is the death of the pilot, in realpolitik terms. Iran is more enabled to shoot down a drone, and we are more enabled to set up that drone to be shot down if both parties know that video of a US body being fished out of the ocean isn’t part of the calculation.

    The pilot of that drone still got to go home to his wife and kids in Las Vegas today.

  80. 80.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Kent: Yes, but… In this case it is getting their official information about where they claim the drone was when it was shot down to the US. Since we don’t have diplomatic relations with Iran, this has to be run through the Swiss who act as the intermediary.

  81. 81.

    Kent

    I’m willing to believe anything by any of these actors. We are definitely off the looking glass and through the map as Adam puts it.

    But good god, was that Iranian map of the incident hand-drawn on a napkin with sharpie? My 13 year old makes better maps than that when she does a school project.

  82. 82.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Adam L Silverman:

    As someone around here may have mentioned once or twice: we are off the looking glass and through the map.

    I want to know where this massive stockpile of looking glasses and maps came from. We’re going through a metric shitton of maps lately.

  87. 87.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Kent:

    was that Iranian map of the incident hand-drawn on a napkin with sharpie?

    It was drawn up by the GOP like the tax scam bill.

  88. 88.

    germy

    Surely trump won’t rush into war with Iran if Vlad says it’s a bad idea?

    Must be incredibly frustrating for Bolton.

  89. 89.

    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]

    My personal, completely non-researched feelings on what went down in this incident falls into two not entirely separable scenarios: intentional, and stupid. The intentional is the classic bully “but I’m not touching you” scenario. Fly JUUST over the line to see if Iran will let it slide, and if they do, fly further over the line. Or, if the Iranians shoot it down, we have the current posturing of the US. Or the Iranians decided to pick off a drone JUUST on the other side of the line to point out that fuckery can go in both directions.

    The stupid scenario is that either the low level Iranian Anti-air officer or the US drone flyer fucked up (in reading the radar plot or plotting the course), and is getting yelled at, a lot, behind closed doors right now, and has been getting yelled at since the incident happened.

    How much of one or another? No idea. I’m reminded of the top gun quote “This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we will be lucky to live through it”. I do know that our administration is looking for the “short victorious war” that will fix their political problems. Personally, if I was president, anyone who said that to me would be immediately sacked.

  90. 90.

    J R in WV

    War by Twit — how appropriate for Trump’s administration and military!

    No one left who knows what war really is, how hard we should work to avoid it. I never saw warfare while I served on the gulf coast, except in training.

    Horror.

    Do Not Do This!!!

  98. 98.

    germy

    @mrmoshpotato: I was a big Felix fan in my childhood. Sater has promised to answer all questions. I hope a war with Iran isn’t in trump’s bag of tricks.

  99. 99.

    germy

    But good god, was that Iranian map of the incident hand-drawn on a napkin with sharpie?

    Supply-side economics was birthed in the same manner.

  100. 100.

    Adam L Silverman

    @MazeDancer: Thanks, here’s the relevant info he was referring to:
    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28613/everything-we-know-about-irans-claim-that-it-shot-down-a-u-s-rq-4-global-hawk-drone

    UPDATE: 1:37am PDT—

    Our friend @Aircraftspots has done some awesome work tracking potentially the aircraft in question that would have arrived just five days ago in the Middle East.

    There is a discrepancy with the serial number and identity of this aircraft. It does not belong to an MQ-4C, it belongs to a BAMS-D demonstrator that we mentioned in the article above. And flying it from NAS Pax River makes perfect sense as that is where they live. The only operational MQ-4C squadron is located at NAS Point Mugu on the other side of the country.

    So, it looks like DoD officials are likely confused and what was probably lost was a BAMS-D. These airframes were recycled from early Block 10 RQ-4A Global Hawks that the USAF no longer wanted and used for experimental testing and proof of concept work during development for what would become the MQ-4C Triton.

    You can see the exact aircraft in question here, also it is featured in the text above when we talk about BAMS-D.

    Update: 4:28am PDT—

    We have official confirmation, as we exclusively stated, it was a BAMS-D.

    UPDATE: 5:22am PDT—

    Keep in mind, BAMS-D, like the Global Hawk and the MQ-4C to a degree, has a zero penetration mission. It doesn’t fly into contested airspace. It is literally a sitting duck. The only reason it would do so would be if it was off the leash or there was a major navigational malfunction. It is far more likely Iran just shot it out of international airspace as the Pentagon states.

  103. 103.

    Mike in DC

    @Aleta: He’s f**ked. One week before the debates? He’s in the same one with Sen. Harris? Super-f**ked. Even Cacti has got to be face-palming over this one.

  105. 105.

    Jay

    @John Revolta:

    There is, since the overthrow of the Shah, Iran has used it to resolve border disputes with it’s neighbors.

    The US however, is not a neighbor to Iran, nore does it have any boders with Iran. The US also refuses to recognize the Iranian Borders, the ADSZ, or the EEZ, that most of Iran’s neighbors do.

  106. 106.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Martin: For something that never happened and couldn’t be real, they were certainly far more concerned with tracking it down and snagging it then you’d otherwise expect.

  107. 107.

    J R in WV

    And here’s a question, how far was this event from Iranian dirt? Another… How far was this from USA dirt? I’m guessing 20 miles from Iran, 20,000 miles from DC. Guam is closer, US military, maybe 4,000 (guessing, Google maps and MapQuest can’t do milages across the water like this) to the scene of this event.

    Here’s a great reply to the DoD post about the location of the shoot down:

    @natsecwatson
    4h4 hours ago

    More from the Pentagon on the $130 million drone Iran shot down last night:

    DOD: “Attached is the ISR flight path and grid plot for the RQ-4A shot down by Iran in the Strait of Hormuz.”

    Apparent takeaway: The aircraft *was not* in Iranian airspace/territory when shot down.
    ==================================================================
    Replying to @natsecwatson

    You mean like the intelligence corroborating the existence of WMD in Iraq
    0 replies 0 retweets 1 like

    Pretty good and on point~!!~

  112. 112.

    Adam L Silverman

    @germy: It’s going to be behind closed doors. No one will read the transcript. No need to distract from anything.

  114. 114.

    MomSense

    I don’t care about the stupid drone. The US is going to keep sending drones, planes, ships, jet skis, paddle boards, kayaks, para gliders, paper airplanes and anything else they can think of closer and closer and closer to Iran hoping they will take more “unprovoked” actions.

  116. 116.

    guachi

    Things I won’t miss in the Navy – having my work schedule jacked around by incidents like this.

  117. 117.

    germy

    Asked what he'll do differently now versus his 2017 Senate bid, Roy Moore says: "I would like to make more personal contact with people."— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) June 20, 2019

  121. 121.

    PeakVT

    So, so glad we’re being distracted by this warmongering from unimportant things, like kids in concentration camps.

  122. 122.

    Brachiator

    @MomSense:

    I don’t care about the stupid drone. The US is going to keep sending drones, planes, ships, jet skis, paddle boards, kayaks, para gliders, paper airplanes and anything else they can think of closer and closer and closer to Iran hoping they will take more “unprovoked” actions.

    This would make a better cartoon than international incident.

  123. 123.

    MomSense

    I haven’t forgotten Tom Cotton and 46 other GOP Senators wrote that letter threatening that even if the US did enter into a deal a future president could rescind it. The Republicans will never stop screwing with Iran. And they are so arrogant. Look at how disastrous the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have been and now we think we can take on Iran? It’s insanity.

  124. 124.

    NotMax

    Overheard in the Pentagon: “I picked the wrong week to accept becoming Acting Secretary.” //

  127. 127.

    Jay

    @MomSense:

    “Look at how disastrous the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have been are, and Yemen, Syria, Lybia, Mali, Nigeria, Yemen, Somalia, etc,

    None of those wars are over, nor has US involvement ended.

  128. 128.

    MomSense

    @Brachiator:

    The stupid map they produced looked like something from Bugs Bunny. And now we all have to take their idiocy seriously because they just might start a fucking war over a drone that they flew right to the line. My sister used to torture me with that game on long car trips. She’d poke my leg and then I’d tell her to stop and then she’d keep doing it and finally my mom would tell her to stop. Then she would put her hand on the seat next to my leg as close as it could possibly be without touching it just to annoy me so bad that I wanted to hit her. And she knew she was aggravating me. She meant to. Guess what we aged out of the single digits and found much better ways to get in trouble. Bolton and Pompousahole need to grow up and just let it go. Shouldn’t they be dreaming up new conflicts for emerging shipping lanes in the Arctic?

  129. 129.

    Peale

    @Aleta: yeah. I wish it were a story with a happy ending. Like maybe he befriended Eastland and got him to sign some progressive legislation, or through the years, Biden had softened the heart of a racist. Instead, they came together to pass legislation that Eastland wanted to pass.

  132. 132.

    Searcher

    @Baud: Although there’d be a certain dinner party factoid benefit if the two Presidents whose names started TRUM were the only two to ever drop an A-bomb on another country.

  134. 134.

    Jay

    @MomSense:

    Shouldn’t they be dreaming up new conflicts for emerging shipping lanes in the Arctic?

    Funny thing is, any new shipping lanes in the Arctic, are going to be in Russian waters.

  135. 135.

    MomSense

    This administration can’t even fill all the missing cabinet secretary positions and they’re going to successfully fight a war against Iran?

  137. 137.

    Bill Arnold

    @Jeffro:

    Important thing to remember here is that trumpov doesn’t wanna get on Putin’s bad side…I see the US standing down in 3, 2, 1…
    Reply

    What exactly does Putin want? Russia has a lot to gain from a dramatic spike in oil prices. Putin has been known to lie.

  139. 139.

    Leto

    @NotMax:

    On the plus side, at least it’s not Kuwait, from which there’s been report of reaching 63°C (145°F).

    I’ve spent more time in that type of heat, in that region, than I want to think about. People complain about dry heat or humid heat… all I’m going to say is that when you think your brain is on fire, it doesn’t matter. I had a picture, which I think I’ve lost in the many moves, where I was standing outside the workout tent, pointing at the outside thermometer whose needle had moved past 140F by about 8 degrees. Good memories.

  140. 140.

    Mike in DC

    @Peale: They came together to pass anti-busing legislation. If Biden had just let sleeping dogs lie and when asked about stuff like this said something about personal growth, he’d probably survive unscathed. He brought this up unbidden. WaPo followed up on the actual working relationship with Eastland and, of course, linked it back to Biden’s dabbling/pandering to white backlash politics in the 70s. Symone Sanders is probably hyperventilating into a paper bag right now.

  141. 141.

    J R in WV

    I have reviewed Senator Joe Biden’s letters to Senator Eastman, (R-Bigotry). Mostly just asking boss Senator for appointments to Joe’s preferred committees, and thanks for the appointments he got.

    Then shit got real, asking Sen. R Bigot for his help passing the no Federal Funds for Forced Busing Bill, one of the letters signed by both Sen. Biden AND Strom Thurmond. Another racist bastard currently being spit turned by two of Satan’s best roaster sjupervisors!

    Fuck this racist bastard is my final decision.

    Black kids should all be trapped in falling down old school buildings with text books discarded by the white schools? Nope. Fuck no. They should be in school with the Mayor’s kid, and Joe Biden’s kid. That’s equality for you…

  142. 142.

    Jay

    On January 12, 2016, two United States Navy riverine command boats were seized by Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) Navy after they entered Iranian territorial waters near Iran’s Farsi Island in the Persian Gulf. Initially, the U.S. military claimed the sailors inadvertently entered Iranian waters owing to mechanical failure, but it was later reported that they entered Iranian waters because of navigational errors.[3] The U.S. secretary of state, John Kerry, called the Iranian foreign minister Mohammad Javad Zarif within five minutes. His call was followed by multiple other phone calls between the two ministers. The sailors had a brief verbal exchange with the Iranian military and were released, unharmed, 15 hours later.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_U.S.–Iran_naval_incident

  143. 143.

    laura

    Hey, remember that time we shot down and Irananian passenger plane killing all on board and suffered few, if any consequences and it didn’t lead to war?
    Yeah, neither do most Americans, and Bolton and Pompeo aren’t asked about it by our media betters.
    Well I remember. I’m still ashamed.

  144. 144.

    MomSense

    @Bill Arnold:

    Exactly. This would be a huge assist to Putin. We would be so completely bogged down and ruined by war with Iran and oil and gas prices would skyrocket. Putin would love this. He’s probably celebrating with the best vodka at his Sochi pad.

  145. 145.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Sarah Huckabee Sanders and the reporters who cover the White House haven’t always had the smoothest relationship. But that isn’t stopping some of those journalists from organizing a goodbye party for the outgoing White House press secretary next week.
    On Wednesday, two White House correspondents, Politico’s Anita Kumar and DailyMail.com’s Francesca Chambers, invited fellow reporters and some Trump staffers to “farewell drinks” for Sanders at an upscale D.C. restaurant on June 24, according to a copy of the email invitation obtained by HuffPost.

    I’m only surprised it won’t be at the trump hotel, and that no Axios reporter is helping to organize it

    Charles P. Pierce @ CharlesPPierce
    Here I am as an editor:
    Any of you going to a farewell party for that truthless Ozark hack can skip coming in on Monday

  146. 146.

    Leto

    @Jay:

    but it was later reported that they entered Iranian waters because of navigational errors.

    Anyone remember the RQ-170 they GPS spoofed and caused to crash in their territory? Then proudly showed off? I’m sure that’s down the memory hole too.

  147. 147.

    Jay

    @Bill Arnold:

    Iran is a “client”.

    The US pushing for a deranged war on Iran, moves US Allies away from the US and US “Clients” in the Gulf who don’t want to be collateral damage, away from the US.

    US backing down from a deranged war on Iran, causes US “Allies” who have their waron for Iran as long as the US does all the heavy lifting, causes those “Allies” to draw away from the US despite the billions they have spent on Drumph.

    It’s a win-win for Putin when Russia looks like the sane, helpful and “fair” moderate in the region.

  148. 148.

    PsiFighter37

    Maybe shallow, but Donnie looks like a complete idiot when he sits up in the chair, belly hanging out, and putting his hands together in that weird upside-down triangle pose. Where the fuck did he learn his mannerisms from?

    PF37 +2 beers, +1 protein shake

  150. 150.

    J R in WV

    @germy:

    Roy Moore says: “I would like to make more personal contact with people.”

    And now I wonder with exactly which parts of his body Mr Moore wants to “make more personal contact with [which parts of which] people.” Hmmm?

  154. 154.

    Leto

    @Adam L Silverman: All I’ll say regarding this is that 1) there’s two distinct locations for ops: local and remote, and 2) Nevada is not the only remote location. Far from it.

  155. 155.

    MomSense

    @PsiFighter37:

    The kids call that hand pose his “vagina hands”. He’s grotesque and so fucking bizarre and clownish. It’s not a good kind of freak.

  156. 156.

    Bill Arnold

    @PsiFighter37:

    and putting his hands together in that weird upside-down triangle pose.

    Link? Not spotting anything in google images in the last week. Sorry to see that he’s finally figured out how to make something that resembles a proper small fist. The pseudo-fist (with thumbs in the wrong position) was amusing. (I’m a connoisseur of his alien quirks. :-)

  157. 157.

    Jay

    On 11 November 2001, U.S. Special Forces Operational Detachment Alpha 554 (“Tiger 08”) was inserted by helicopter near Herat.[7] As planned, Iranian commandos secretly entered Herat to begin the insurrection on November 12, which successfully gave way to, what Ismail Khan claimed to be, the local uprising against the Taliban leaders. The Northern Alliance, Shi’ite Hazara factions, and a small group of U.S. Special Forces then entered the city.[5] Herati residents also took part in the uprising with sticks, knives, and guns hidden throughout the populace. The city fell as the Taliban fled towards the mountains along the Iranian border, leaving behind several abandoned tanks. Prisoners, including Chechen and Arab volunteers, were taken to undisclosed locations.[8]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_uprising_in_Herat

  161. 161.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Leto:

    I had a picture, which I think I’ve lost in the many moves, where I was standing outside the workout tent, pointing at the outside thermometer whose needle had moved past 140F by about 8 degrees. Good memories.

    And that was at 11 PM!

  163. 163.

    Jay

    A year after the incident a British MoD investigation report was released which stated that the area in which the incident took place was not covered by any internationally agreed delineation. US forces had defined an operational boundary, but that had not been communicated to Iran, and Iranian forces crossed this operational boundary an average of 12 times per month. Since the 1975 Algiers Agreement the Shatt al-Arab channel had shifted in favour of Iran, and any Iranian notional boundary was not known to the US coalition.[2] While innocent passage is permitted in each other’s waters, boarding and compliance inspections in another state’s waters would not be lawful.[28]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Iranian_arrest_of_Royal_Navy_personnel

  164. 164.

    Leto

    @Adam L Silverman: Haha, actually at 11pm (2300) it was a mere 100F. But man, it felt sooooo gooood! It also really help me understand why the locals all wear the flowing/loose fitting robes.

  170. 170.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Leto: I remember it well. The shift once the temperature got to 105 or 100 and it suddenly felt cool.

    At our FOB, the gym was in a huge air conditioned tent. So you’d get there, go in, and it would be like 68 degrees. You’d work out, finish, grab your stuff, and go back out into 100 plus degree heat.

  171. 171.

    Steve in the ATL

    @MomSense:

    The stupid map they produced looked like something from Bugs Bunny.

    Was it the map where Bugs saws off Florida and it floats away? I love that one!

  172. 172.

    Bill Arnold

    @MomSense:
    Thanks, that one too. As a Tai Chi type hand position, it makes no real sense to me but it feels like genitalia might be involved. (male/female/other/combination?) What a peculiar being he is!

  174. 174.

    Another Scott

    There are noises on Twitter now that FTFNYT has a story that Donnie approved some sort of retaliatory strike against Iran today, but then changed his mind.

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  175. 175.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Another Scott: on MSNBC, they said that planes were in the air, ships were moving into position, and then the stand down order came

    who knows what to believe now

  176. 176.

    Dmbeaster

    @laura: The US Navy gave medals to those responsible for shooting down a civilian airliner in order to maintain the charade that they did the right thing.

  177. 177.

    Leto

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh yeah, our tent in Iraq and Afghanistan was like that. Nice and cold, walk outside and immediately be hit by this heat wave. That was something I always, strangely, looked forward to when stepping off the plane. That first initial blast of heat signifying, yup, you’re back.

    Back to the gym: what I love about my Army brethren is their eternal love of the gym. Everything else will be shit, but man that gym is a holy temple and is appointed like one. A+

  178. 178.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Leto: We had an amazing gym. The D-Fac, I learned three years later from one of my students who was a logistician, was defective and was supposed to be decommissioned (which explained why when I ate with the Iraqis I was fine, when I ate in the D-Fac I was sick). So excellent gym, crappy dining facility. Our PX kind of sucked. It always looked like it had just been picked over by a horde of locusts.

  181. 181.

    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]

    @VOR: Ah yes, you are correct. I had a bad google search but watched the clip in the Hunt for Red October video. Still, my original point stands.

  182. 182.

    Procopius

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: That’s an excellent question. I’ve been wondering, too. Not one single report of a drone murder that I remember seeing since Januare 20, 2017. And what happened to the “threat matrix?” We did see some reports on Obama’s drone program after the Awlakis, father and son, were killed in Yeman, but no more reports about the President having authority to order anyone, citizen or not, killed anywhere in the world, without due process or outside review. I feel sure they’ve been doing it, but it seems the six billionaires who own the media have decided it’s not newsworthy and must not be reported on. I think it’s exactly the kind of thing Trump would love to do. Has he?

  183. 183.

    laura

    @Dmbeaster: I cannot imagine the burden of grief and PTSD that those soldiers must bear. The cost is too damn high. But hey, here’s a medal to remind you of the hollowness of an Iran policy that strategically forgets the overthrow of a Democratically elected leader who had the affrontery to nationalize the greatest resource and all that followed including the devolution from vibrant modern society to theocratic government and a barely simmering under employed population. Because those folks are still sitting on top of our oil.

  184. 184.

    Jay

    @Procopius:

    While No One Is Looking, Trump Is Escalating America’s Drone War

    In expanding US drone strikes in Yemen, Somalia, and Afghanistan, Trump has “shredded” Obama-era safeguards to minimizing the risk of civilian casualties.

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7xmadd/trump-escalating-americas-drone-war?utm_source=viceadwordsca&utm_medium=cpc

    The New Face of American War Is a Robot

    Artificial intelligence makes it easier for us to think of war in the abstract—and makes it harder to stop fighting.
    By Allegra Harpootlian and Emily Manna APRIL 29, 2019

    https://www.thenation.com/article/tom-dispatch-american-warfare-drones-military-tech-robot/

  185. 185.

    Another Scott

    @Procopius: No link, but Donnie rescinded Obama’s reporting requirements about drone actions. That’s why we don’t hear about it anymore. (That, and the GGs of the world don’t find it interesting any more, for some reason…)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  186. 186.

    Procopius

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The only reason it would do so would be if it was off the leash or there was a major navigational malfunction.

    I’m confused as to who the quote is from, but this statement is clearly not accurate. Another possible cause would be an intentional provocation. I don’t know what the phrase “off the leash” means, so maybe there are other possible causes for it to have strayed from the anticipated/programmed flight path.

  187. 187.

    Leto

    @Adam L Silverman: Haha, at least you HAD a bx! My Iraq FOB, we had the local guy selling bootleg copies of movies. Our closest bx was a 90 minute chopper ride away. The DFAC there was good.

    Afghanistan… so we were transitioning a NATO base over to a full US run place. North Kabul International Airport. We looked the base up online before we left, saw that it was ranked “worst DFAC” in the AOR. It was run by a Dutch conglomerate called SUPREME. Like KBR for Europe. The second week we were there, went in for lunch one day, and found out why they were ranked that way.

    Get up to the serving line and something was smelling funky. Like, raw sewage funky. Turns out it was the rice. Not sure what they cooked it in, but it smelled like sewage. I didn’t eat rice for the next 7 months. I like rice and I wanted it to stay that way. Just as we were rotating out, KBR was building a new DFAC on site. /shrug

  189. 189.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Leto: We had a local shop and restaurant too!

    I was at Hammer. We inherited from 3/3 ID. Where were you at?

  190. 190.

    Jay

    WASHINGTON — President Trump approved military strikes against Iran in retaliation for downing an American surveillance drone, but pulled back from launching them on Thursday night after a day of escalating tensions.

    As late as 7 p.m., military and diplomatic officials were expecting a strike, after intense discussions and debate at the White House among the president’s top national security officials and congressional leaders, according to multiple senior administration officials involved in or briefed on the deliberations.

    Officials said the president had initially approved attacks on a handful of Iranian targets, like radar and missile batteries.

    Sorry, but it’s the FTFNYT,

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/20/world/middleeast/iran-us-drone.html

  191. 191.

    J R in WV

    @Librarian:

    @J R in WV: Actually, Eastland was a Democrat.

    True, dat. Was why Biden kept writing him asking for committee position appointments. Been different so long it was too easy to type all wrong. And Strom, who had a good strong signature back then.

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